Greatful: Is this withdrawal or too many med changes at once?

[Knosretep]

@Greatful So sorry to hear about your loss. 

 

Hoping your dad gets better soon.

 

Congratulations to your son!

 

Minnesota winters are wicked and the long, cold, dark days are really draining, even without WD and all the extra stuff you are going though...so keep that in mind when you think about how you're feeling lately and all the negative thoughts telling you you won't get better.  You will get better!  You will make it through!  We just have to accept that its going to take some time, and these WD symptoms are not the real us.  Even though I've been through this WD before and made it, I still have to keep reminding myself....that's what WD does to our brains!

 

Hope you can find some relief in the coming days and enter into a nice, long window of healing.

[Cheeky]

17 hours ago, Greatful said:

Update:

 

I should document this here.  I quit writing in my journal  a couple of months back.  It was the same old stuff day after day and it wasn't helping me anymore.  It is a struggle for me to even meditate or walk on the treadmill. 

It's been a rough month for me as I am sure for everyone else, the change of season, Thanksgiving, Christmas.

One of my brothers passed away last Sunday and my 96 year old dad is in the hospital.

I am trying to work through the emotions and deal with WD.  It is hard to know what is causing what right now.

 

There is some good news our youngest son graduated from  Collage, Michigan Tech in  Houghton Michigan last weekend.  We made  the several hundred mile drive to go and stayed the weekend. (We live in Minnesota) It was very tough, having panic, anxiety, brain disconnect/dysfunction and pain and several other WD symptoms.

 

I am struggling with horrible emotional and physical fatigue, no appetite, on and off nausea(it's been hard to eat most of the time lost about 30pounds) I get out of breath very easily, I feel like I am panting a lot, inner shaking, tingling throughout the body , crushing burning brain, or hot spots that move around my brain, obsessing, paranoia, fear, weakness in my arms and leg muscles, burning chest, tight chest,  tongue feels like I burned it on something,  dry and burning sinuses, (boiling water in the house to see if that helps)  numb area's around my face, dizziness low and hopeless moods/ loss of drive to do anything.  Brain panic, body panic, noise/ commotion sensitivity, I am sure there is more.  I have to also mention that these have been a on going issue since  last spring.  They do intensify and lighten up but I sure would like a window of some peace.  I do get about 5 hours of sleep a night, sometimes broken and tense and sometimes okay.  The early morning craziness starts around 4am-5am.

 

The D/R is getting better,  the thinking/brain disconnect not being able to focus/concentrate is one of the hardest.  How do you feel  you are remotely sane  when your brain feel like it is half missing which makes it hard to function, the thinking/processing/communicating/ can be a real chore on somedays this also leads to brain panic, the brain is trying to work right and it just can't do it.  The fog is lifting but not the dysfunction🥴

I keep telling my hubby this is so inhumane.  I am hoping when the holidays are over and our son goes back to Michigan (he has a job there) I can go into hibernation and some acceptance of who I am and all that is going on with me.

 

Thanks you all for listening.  Tell me that this is all normal WD things and it will pass and get better.   Knowing you are not alone and others go through similar things is so comforting.    You fight and fight and work on being positive how do you not lose the drive to be positive🥴

@greatful, I really don’t know what to say except we are all going through this together. Everyday we wake wanting so much to be okay and get disheartened when we feel so bad . I’m so sorry you and everybody else has to go through this. I hate Big Pharma so much.

sending you lots of love ❤️ 

Cheeky

[Heinz1903]

I’m from holland, our winters are medium cold but very gray and rainy.

 

i know the struggle, see the winter more as period of looking back and sorrow(for everyone).

 

but next year is going to be better, plant the best seeds in spring so this summer you would be much better

[Oaktree1]

@Grateful

 

I am sorry to hear about your father and the recent death of your brother and the awful symptoms you are living with.  I have been following your posts and wish you peace for the next few next or the fortitude to get through it.  It is good you have your husband and your family in your corner to support you but still awful to go through this.

 

Oaktree

[Greatful]

Update:  My father passed away.  Now I will be  going through grieving and WD.  I might be quite or I might needing a lot of support and encouragement.  

 

Here is some crazy thoughts.  I recommend all to go on drugs.com  and look at the spelled out side affect of the the drugs they are using.  They brake down all the systems and % out the reported side affects in your body, muscular, cardo, hemoglobin, nervous system etc.  why you ask , well is it a coincidence that  after years on drugs I had horrible lower back pain and stiffness that has pretty much disappeared (off the Prozac since last dec. on low dose Lex now)  and my  carpel tunnel in my arms and hands are pretty much gone.  I had a pretty strong gage reflex( chocked really easy, even on water, and would throw up quite often with it).  That is 95% gone.  so did the Prozac, Lex or Lamictal cause the problem?    I know from looking it up that the carpel tunnel and back pain are a side affect from the ssri use.  Now that being said, I am not working right now so maybe that lack of physical work is helping also.  But the gage reflex has to be all drug use.  I would have never connected the drugs to the physical symptoms before all this nightmare started.

 

Now the next question, from looking at the side affects and all the WD symptoms I have they are similar.  Are the symptoms the same because of brain changes going on with add and changing the chemical with the drugs and/or the CNS off balance.  In other words is it the chemicals or just the brain being off course?

 

One more question.    Can anyone relate or help me out with my dry, burning sinuses, very dry mouth, it feels like my tongue is burned and I have been getting heart burn tight chest.  We are trying to keep the house moist but I had this in the summer time too.  I try to drink a lot and I am going to the bathroom. Sometimes it feel like chemical burning in my chest/ and my brain.  Is this nerves or really chemical from the drugs........

Reassure me that this is normal WD garbage.   

 

@FrogieThank you for the tea suggestion.  I did enjoy the tea but that is when the heartburn started.  Do you think it was to acidic or something.  I am going to wait for when the burning stops and try again.  I really would like something to sip on.  I was/am a avid coffee drinker.  I sneak a few sips in the morning. 🥴

[Frogie]

@Greatful

 

I am so sorry you hear of the passing of your father. 

 

About the tea. Try holding off and see if that clears up the heartburn. I'm sorry it did that, it never bothered me.

 

You are in my thoughts and prayers🙏

[Sunnylight]

@Greatful I am so sorry to hear about the loss of your father. I really feel for you. Grieving is already hard in itself and on top of all you have to handle from withdrawal it must be so intense. I send you lots of love and support ❤️

[Heath]

Hello @Greatful. I am so sorry for your loss. 
I can relate to some of the symptoms you are having. I am happy to hear the pain you were having is gone.
Thank you for the tip on the drugs.com! I have had low back pain, neck pain, pain in my wrists and elbow tendinitis,and even plantar fasciitis. Really flairs up in withdrawals. And it has even happened when dr would first start me on a ssri. As in here take this 20 mg pill. I guess too much at one time. But I really notice it in my taper when I drop after a hold period . Few days or so. Then it goes away. And it’s not all at same time. It may be bad for one one time and another next time. I try to deal with them individually as they come. I have had back pain and elbow tendinitis before ssris. Funny thing is they put me on Paxil for back pain with anxiety .  I have also read that some medication shrinks muscle. 
 

I agree side effects and withdrawals are very similar. It was so hard to know what was what before I found SA. Still hard sometimes. When I took Prozac for 18 months I had heartburn so bad that I ate lettuce and spinage along with Prilosec and tums. I tried everything except aloe Vera juice. I will try it if it happens again. My friends swore by it. One other thing that helped  fast was chewing gum. Saliva in you mouth is alkaline which lowers acid. It gradually went away after stopping Prozac and I just weaned myself off Prilosec recently. Changing diet avoiding  chocolate, fried foods, sodas, caffeine etc. 

 

as far as the burning dry sinuses, mouth and eyes, well I developed that bad after starting lexapro.  I would also have dizziness/brain fog only in allergy season. Something to do with dry sinuses. Still have it. Right after starting lexapro I got a dental implant infection and had to have it surgically removed because of dry mouth. This stuff is poison. The sinuses Sometimes it’s feels like when I breathe in it burns. I did have a little dry mouth and sinuses with Paxil years ago. I even would go to ent dr and he would give me pills but it would make it worse. You are doing rt by drinking lots of water. We use a humidifier in house too . Steamy showers and baths help. I keep Ayr saline spray with me at all times. These side effects also flair up when I drop in my taper. These side effects are getting better as my dosage comes down. 
 

sorry for the long post! As you I have been searching for explanations but I try not to chase drs and obsess for these symptoms. I try to treat the symptoms myself.  This is all temporary we will make it through! Take care of yourself. Prayers for you and healing. 

[Knosretep]

@Greatful

 

So sorry to hear about your father.

 

The tight and burning chest was a symptom of WD for me in 2009 and it went away while I was still on Sertraline.  I have the symptom again and it waxes and wanes while my medication has remained constant...so I'm pretty sure its all just WD.

[lex1989]

On 12/30/2021 at 6:50 PM, Greatful said:

 

@FrogieThank you for the tea suggestion.  I did enjoy the tea but that is when the heartburn started.  Do you think it was to acidic or something.  I am going to wait for when the burning stops and try again.  I really would like something to sip on.  I was/am a avid coffee drinker.  I sneak a few sips in the morning. 🥴

I am really sorry for your loss 😞🙏🏻. 
 

About the hearthburn, it’s a common effect of withdrawal from anti depressants in general and specially Lexapro. I have it sometimes as well. You can even check on drugs.com on Lexapro, beeing even an adverse effect from it besides withdrawal. I m almost certain it has nothing to do with the tea.

[Heath]

2 hours ago, lex1989 said:

I am really sorry for your loss 😞🙏🏻. 
 

About the hearthburn, it’s a common effect of withdrawal from anti depressants in general and specially Lexapro. I have it sometimes as well. You can even check on drugs.com on Lexapro, beeing even an adverse effect from it besides withdrawal. I m almost certain it has nothing to do with the tea.

Lex1989 totally agree! Being on these drugs or withdrawing it’s very hard to see what is really causing a symptom. The whole body! 

[Greatful]

Heath, Frogie, oaktree1, Sunnylight, knosretep, lex1987, Heinz1903, cheeky,

 

Thank You all for the kind and encouraging words. Your support is greatly appreciated and needed.

My goal now is not to get suck down into a spiral of sadness and hopelessness. Stay in the day, say kind things to myself and hibernate for the winter and heal.

 

Jan 1

I am still experiencing heartburn, and dry sinuses numbing around my face and mouth, sometimes it feels like I am going to start drooling out the left side of my mouth. The left eye feel swollen and droopy. I had really bad nausea and no appetite for several days.  Very weak emotionally/physically tired.  I am babying myself and eating a little throughout the day, laying on the couch watching a lot of tiny house shows  and others.  Letting my mind do what it wants and boy has it been busy with all sorts of sad, negative, fearful thoughts, brain panic, hopelessness. 

Someone, anyone please you can unplug the electricity in my body and brain anytime now.  lol

 

I have to say there have been times off and on through this process that I have wanted to give in, I tell myself there must be something that will make my brain work again.  At least be able to function.  Then I feel the numbing brain and get really scared about what would it do if I add some new chemical to my brain.  Would it totally disconnect and I will go crazy. 

 

If there is anything I have learned is that this garbage of WD intensifies and lessons, up an down,  I get some  peaks  of short windows, Hour here or there, of some  brain/thinking functions, low anxiety lighter positive mood and think wow I remember this........  Sadly it doesn't last long.  I sometimes can feel the sift as they come and go. I get to  almost breaking the surface of the hole and then shortly  the panic and brain goes back into paranioa and fear. I  haven't reached full window normalcy.  The waves as you all know are real and overwhelming for awhile in the beginning.  Hopefully as the healing goes on the waves will not be as demanding or as long and the windows  bigger and longer.

 

there is a catch 22 around here for me.  Sometimes I need to read, reach out and help others, this helps me feel less alone and that what is going on with me is normal WD not a failure of who I am.  Then I can also have a hard time reading about how others are healing and I feel stuck.  But I know that I need to see this also, and frame it in a way that tells me that if they can heal so can I.  Healing is possible.  We are all on a journey, some in front and some in back and a lot in the middle.

 

Thank You everyone here on SA, your support is appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Greatful]

@HeathI noticed that you are going down every 7 days on your Lex  6.3   6.2  How are measuring it?  Liquid or crushing?  

[Oaktree1]

@Grateful

 

I offer you my sympathies on the recent passing your father.  To lose two family members so close together as you did if you were reasonably close to them is brutal.

 

18 minutes ago, Greatful said:

I sometimes can feel the sift as they come and go. I get to  almost breaking the surface of the hole and then shortly  the panic and brain goes back into paranioa and fear. I  haven't reached full window normalcy.  

 

You write and describe withdrawal so vividly ...that's all 

20 minutes ago, Greatful said:

Healing is possible.  We are all on a journey, some in front and some in back and a lot in the middle.

 

I think that quote is lovely.  I wish you more windows and even more acceptance of where you are currently in 2022.   I have found for myself that acceptance of where one is at, even it is bad is gives some release and relief.  That goodness for the house programmes.  

 

Oaktree1

[Heath]

1 hour ago, Greatful said:

@HeathI noticed that you are going down every 7 days on your Lex  6.3   6.2  How are measuring it?  Liquid or crushing?  

syringe. Liquid. 
Im pretty much doing the brass monkey slide

[Greatful]

@Heath

I did a quick read of your thread.   Wow you and I have a lot of the same things going on with the Lex poison.   

I think my brain is a little more scrambled then your though........🥴

The pain, and all the other brain garbage are probably a mix of all the drug changes and CT'S last winter. and I think the lex side affects are playing a part to.

If you have read I have issues with my ears and hearing sensitivity, talking to much is over whelming. I think I am starting to acquire some more physical wd now.   Left shoulder is tense and sore.

I am going to jump over to your thread 

[Heath]

Yes my ears get sensitive to sounds sometimes. I wear ear plugs at work now more than I ever have. 
I get eye issues too like floaters and sometimes it feels like I have side blinders on. 
 

12 minutes ago, Greatful said:

@Heath

I did a quick read of your thread.   Wow you and I have a lot of the same things going on with the Lex poison.   

I think my brain is a little more scrambled then your though........🥴

The pain, and all the other brain garbage are probably a mix of all the drug changes and CT'S last winter. and I think the lex side affects are playing a part to.

If you have read I have issues with my ears and hearing sensitivity, talking to much is over whelming. I think I am starting to acquire some more physical wd now.   Left shoulder is tense and sore.

I am going to jump over to your thread 

 

[arbor]

Dear @Greatful--I want to express my condolences on your recent losses, and to add support to your journey through w/d as it unfolds.  I have never known anything harder than w/d, but I feel confident that healing awaits you. 🙏

Hugs,

Arbor

[Kat66]

I've only just read about your dad @Greatful. I'm so sorry, I lost my dad just before Christmas in 2006. 

 

On 1/1/2022 at 3:51 PM, Greatful said:

I am babying myself and eating a little throughout the day, laying on the couch watching a lot of tiny house shows  and others.  Letting my mind do what it wants and boy has it been busy with all sorts of sad, negative, fearful thoughts, brain panic, hopelessness. 

Someone, anyone please you can unplug the electricity in my body and brain anytime now.  lol

 

I have to say there have been times off and on through this process that I have wanted to give in, I tell myself there must be something that will make my brain work again.  At least be able to function. 

Oh goodness, this is where I am. Right back to basics. It's a terrifying place to be, but it's also a place where I suppose if we learnt to accept it, it could be a comforting place to be. I so desperately want this all to be over but maybe settling into a temporary life of babying ourselves is what we need...and just accept it.

 

I know what you mean about wanting to give in......the temptation to go back on something just to get some relief.....but we must stay strong xxx

[AndyPants]

@Greatful so sorry for everything you're going through. Babying yourself is definitely the right approach in times like this.

[Believer]

Hi @Greatful

How are you? I am really sorry to read about your dad. It’s tough loosing our parents, but especially hard with withdrawal on top of it. I hope you are still pampering yourself and giving yourself grace.

 

Hugs, 

Believer

[Frogie]

Hi @Greatful

 

I wanted to explain on your thread about @lex1989

 

@DataGuy and I suggested that she split her Clonazepam dose, not his Lexapro.

 

I just didn't want you to be confused🙂

 

I hope you are doing better.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

Edited January 8, 2022 by Frogie

[manymoretodays]

And hi there Greatful,  I've been wanting and meaning to stop by for some time,

 

As oh my gosh, you've been hit with some hard grief no doubt, and I am.very.sorry.for.your.cummulative losses.  Both brother and then your Dad.  Phew......words are never enough.

And I thank you, for coming round so valiantly to support others during these early days of grief.

 

Losing my Mum was one of the toughest to date, for me, as far as losses go.

I found so much solace in books, and poems.  And so here are some of what has eased this grief journey for me a bit.

Mary Oliver poems.

The books: It's OK that you're NOT OK Megan Devine

                   Grieving is Loving Joanne Caccitore(I might have the spelling wrong on the last name??)

I also wound up doubling up on therapy I guess one could say.  I added a new psychologist to my very comfortable and comforting therapist just for some additional help to cope with it all.  Good guy, doesn't mind my lectures on de-prescribing, and my education around how he should be aware of drug effects on his other clients(of the not so great variety).

 

So it's been intense work for me, after the first few months of feeling like I was in suspended animation.

And for me, it hasn't really been related to my WD anymore, as I am over 5 years out now, just related to my life beyond drugs I think.

 

Anyway.  So. Sorry. Again.

 

It does sound like you are in it a bit now, as far as a wave goes too.

On 1/1/2022 at 10:52 AM, Greatful said:

@Heath

I did a quick read of your thread.   Wow you and I have a lot of the same things going on with the Lex poison.   

I think my brain is a little more scrambled then your though........🥴

The pain, and all the other brain garbage are probably a mix of all the drug changes and CT'S last winter. and I think the lex side affects are playing a part to.

If you have read I have issues with my ears and hearing sensitivity, talking to much is over whelming. I think I am starting to acquire some more physical wd now.   Left shoulder is tense and sore.

I am going to jump over to your thread 

 

What's going on now with your tapers and all?  I did, most definitely, get into some major acute WD, once below 5 mg of Lexapro.  And then I see that you are on the cocktail too, with the lousy trazodone, that interacts with everything under the Sun.

I'd be happy to take a look/see if you feel like going over your present drugs a little bit now.  I think it's been a while.  Okay, if you'd rather just HOLD too.  Where you are at, for now.  Just know I'm interested and care.

 

Oooh, and Best of the healing vibes and intentions being beamed your way today,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited January 8, 2022 by manymoretodays
minimal

[Greatful]

@manymoretodaysThank You for your kind words.  

I see that you were on the poison for 30 years,  I'm coming up on that soon I think😥  Please tell me you are healed and that there is a life after drugs.  My brain can get over/passed being on the the chemicals for so long.......

 

I do in fact have some some questions..........Now where to begin?

I know that @Frogie  has been helping me too, maybe she would like to weight in on this too.

 

As you can see I've had a pretty good drug history.   But for the most of time on long term  use was  on  Prozac then Lexapro then back to Prozac and Lamictal now lex.  These are the ones that I spent the longest time on, the rest were  mostly the try this try that or short term Trazodone use for sleep. 

 I know no one can say what is causing what from the nightmare last winter, but I am a little concerned the Lex is causing a adverse affect. 

 

Back around 2015 I fast tapered from lex and tried to reinstate, I think I kindled really bad, the anxiety and waves of panic were horrendous, hubby could feel the energy/electricity  running though my body, the doctor on call told me to stop it.  Then the merry-go-round of trial drugs before going to the hospital  and after the hospital then landed back on Prozac still not quite right anxiety etc.  add Lamictal.  Became more stable but lost memory, became more angry and other things.  My doc okayed tapering off Prozac I thought is was causing mood swings.  Well he didn't guide me and I ended up going into WD.  Of course the doc or I treated it like WD. (he should have know to go back on a small dose of Prozac right) and started the drug merry-go-round last winter. After not stabilizing/finding anything to help( duh now I know WD) 

 

 Out of desperation on my part, ended up trying Lex again out of desperation. ( should say the doc wanted me to stay just at the low doses of Lamictal and Trazadone, supplement with xanax)  I was so desperate to find relief and  begged for something, I came up with Lexapro because I was on it before and limped along through the years on it.    I look back now and see that all the meds for the most part didn't help with the underline anxiety, restlessness.  (I had a lot of side affects that I though were just me, sick me)

 

I really wish I would have stopped the lex right away I had a bad reaction within  my brain 36 hours after I started it.  My brain has been in a mess since.  I could never say if it the quick taper of Lamictal and other trial drugs or the CT of Seroquel (6 weeks of use) I started lex  3 weeks after the  Ct of Seroquel. or what was going on. Short term a few weeks on lex made it to 10mg horrible side affect fast taper to 5mg.

 

Got advice from SA Hold on the 5mg Lex (a 37.5 lamictal, 25mg Trazodone, and the Xanax.  I held there for 4 months and started to taper the lex thinking I was having adverse affect, very little if any improvements.

 

 I am a ultra rapid metabolizer on the Lex and Lamictal.  Also increase risk of adverse reaction to some ssri's.

 

I would have though I would have stabilized more then I have.  Over 10 months of very little change in meds. I am on 4.20mg of Lex which should equate to at least 10 of another ssri.  I have seen a slight improvement over all, but is that from the decreases of the lex or just the time passing?

 

The doc has mentioned a couple of times that because I am a fast metabolizer that I am up and down so much and not stable that I should split my dose.  Not sure if that will help or not?

I know that Dateguy is up on gene tests so not sure if I should get him involved?

 

I am so sensitive to any changes and now can't get my same manufacture for my lex in 5mg

they can get it in for  10 so I have those and will order in 10mg to split.  Hubby wants me to switch to liquid for easier measurements for tapering( I do have some on hand for when I am ready, doc prescribed it a month or so ago but I was to afraid of making a change)  Now that being said...........

 

I can slowly switch over now but I have to 3 concerns.....

1- the brand/manufacture will change from crushing pills to liquid 

2-switch from pills to liquid

3-- since I am a fast metabolizer and I heard that you absorb liquid different, will going to liquid, be a problem for me?  

 

I really want off the lex to see if it is causing so much brain issues.  Squeezing, crushing in, burning, numb, freezing cold, tingling/buzzing, ants in the brain, vice grip, brain feels like there are hunks missing.  The crazy think is it move around my brain.

I often get brain panic,  the brain feels like it is franticly trying to make sense of things and looking for a door to escape through.  The panic is like the akathesia that I get, when I have tingling in my body more the arms and legs and the inner shaking, restlessness.  These are all separate at times and all together at times.. 

 

All that being said.......I have felt some healing. More dirty window I'll say.  I do not go as deep/or stay into hopelessness as long but still tired out.

 

  Do I...

1-switch to liquid, see the reaction,

2- if the switch goes okay start to taper again even though I am not stable yet.....

 I got scared because another member told me I could get permeant brain damage if I taper to fast.  Do you have any thoughts on this.

3- start to do a slow taper.  maybe start at 2% and see how it goes.

 

I'll stop here and wait for further instructions or if you have some questions/or if I need to clarify anything. 

 

A Big thank you for all you guys do.❤️  This can be a very scary lonely journey with lot's of doubts, fears, confusion, I guess I don't need to tell you, you experienced it too.

 

[Kat66]

1 hour ago, Greatful said:

I really want off the lex to see if it is causing so much brain issues.  Squeezing, crushing in, burning, numb, freezing cold, tingling/buzzing, ants in the brain, vice grip, brain feels like there are hunks missing.  The crazy think is it move around my brain.

I often get brain panic,  the brain feels like it is franticly trying to make sense of things and looking for a door to escape through.  The panic is like the akathesia that I get, when I have tingling in my body more the arms and legs and the inner shaking, restlessness.  These are all separate at times and all together at times.. 

 

All that being said.......I have felt some healing. More dirty window I'll say.  I do not go as deep/or stay into hopelessness as long but still tired out.

This can be a very scary lonely journey with lot's of doubts, fears, confusion, I guess I don't need to tell you, you experienced it too.

 

It is a very scary lonely journey - I never thought it would get this hard. I think back to two or three days after CTing in June last year and I was lying on the sofa with flu-like symptoms watching Wimbledon feeling utterly exhausted thinking that would be as bad as it would get. Little did I know the depth of the rabbit hole I now find myself in. It's never ending. The doubts, fears, and confusion are like monsters which never leave you, and are exaggerated by WD. This is why I value you, and the handful of others I speak to, and this website. It's nothing short of a lifeline.

 

Sending love xx 

[Frogie]

@Greatful

 

Oh my girl, you are a mess. I'm so, so, so sorry.

 

Let's see if we can get you a little relief.

 

I had problems with the Lexapro tablets, believe it or not. It took everything I had to get my dr to switch me to the liquid, and I was scared to no end. So I can totally understand your situation.

 

What I did was I took 1/4 liquid and 3/4 tablet for a week, then 1/2 liquid and 1/2 tablet for a week, then 3/4 liquid and 1/4 tablet for a week and then switched to all liquid and held for 6 weeks before touching it. I made sure that the pharmacy would never change the brand and they gave me their word. There were a few times they actually paid more for it than the insurance would cover, but I always had the same brand. Mine was Campher, I think. And I took it in a glass of apple juice, never straight. Then I ate right after I took it. I think that slowed it down a little. 

 

I think because you metabolize so fast, the liquid is going to metabolize a lot faster than tablets, because there is no filler in it, unlike the tablets. I think once stable on it, I would switch to twice a day. 

 

What do you think? Ask me questions anytime! I'm here for you🙂

 

 

[manymoretodays]

3 hours ago, Greatful said:

I see that you were on the poison for 30 years,  I'm coming up on that soon I think😥  Please tell me you are healed and that there is a life after drugs.  My brain can get over/passed being on the the chemicals for so long.......

 

Hey and hi Greatful,

And yes, time, education, and patience has served me very well.  I rounded up a bit to 30 years, and about 30 medications.

Yes, definitely, there is a life after drugs!  And there is life along the way as well.

It does sound really tough right now for you though.

What, what, and who who is telling you scary stuff.....and no, don't tell me, but I don't see from your narratives, or your signature where you have tapered too fast.  And will just say.......you actually may be on the right track now, and maybe just need a little bit more going forward, of eductation, empowerment, input, and the right support around your specifics.  Oh Greatful......use your tools too, you know, all the non-drug coping tools you have gleaned up until today, as to how to manage feelings and emotions, and all the waves that hit us.  I know you share some with others.  Like most of us, I'm guessing your self care may be lacking in sometimes doing what you preach- for yourself.  Anyway......we've got your back.  We do.  Anyway.....and more to follow.

 

3 hours ago, Greatful said:

  Do I...

1-switch to liquid, see the reaction,

2- if the switch goes okay start to taper again even though I am not stable yet.....

 I got scared because another member told me I could get permeant brain damage if I taper to fast.  Do you have any thoughts on this.

3- start to do a slow taper.  maybe start at 2% and see how it goes.

 

It's not so much the genesite tests that are helpful, or I don't think that they are that helpful......better yet is the basics of how we metabolize some of these drugs.  And then interactions between them, and how they metabolize, and how one drug may affect another's metabolism.  You've got a couple with interacting CYP450 enzyme metabolisms.

 

Do you mind doing a drug and symptom diary or log/ AKA Notes?  To help us all get better grips on when you take your drugs, and then the symptoms before and after you take your drugs?

daily drug and symptom diary/log or Notes

^ this one shows just how to post them too, get the times on the left, and then all drugs, by name, and dose, on the right, as well as supplements(again, name and doses), and symptoms as they occur in a 24 hour period.

Really helpful stuff.  If you can post a couple days too, even better.

 

Read through too, Karma's account of how this really helped them, to adjust various things along the way here:  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1779-recording-drug-schedule-and-symptoms-to-track-patterns-and-progress/

 

This is not a penalty exercise either!  Just saying.  It can be fairly simple.  And then good to note in what helps too, any non-drug coping.

Useful to track progress too.  We like progress a lot!  And it happens all the time here.

 

I think they would be real helpful.

 

Have you ever done your drug interactions check?  That can be done at Drugs.com.

To put multiple meds/drugs in you will have to sign in, or start an account there.  They won't deluge you with emails or anything though.

If you would do an interactions check and then copy and paste here, or just share the link, that would be great.  Thank you.  If you switch to profession information, it does give a beginning glimpse at some of what the CYP450 enzyme metabolism means too.

 

And sure, I'll @DataGuyto take a look at your case now too.

And Frogie has already posted, so that is great.

 

It may make sense to change when you take a drug, for example too, once we know what kind of schedule and what a day looks like for you.  Are you a smoker or large amount of coffee drinker?  Just asking, as these too affect various drug metabolisms.

 

And yes, good idea, to see if perhaps switching to liquid Lexapro, or escitalopram might be something to work on soon, as well.  You might find out if it is affordable, and I think it is not too $$ now, in the States.  You most definitely would want to do the cross-over too, when you switch from solid to liquid.

Here's the link on that:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/25691-cross-over-changing-form-eg-tablet-to-liquid-of-drug-or-changing-brand-of-same-drug/

(same as what Frogie did, AND you can go as slow as needed with that)

 

So, my questions......are in the form of seeing when you take your drugs now, and having you do notes/or a couple of days of drug and symptom diaries.  Also I want to see the interactions check too.

 

I'm hoping none of this is redundant for you, and you will take the time, and have the patience, for yourself and your healing.

 

Again, yes most definitely.......There is life after drugs/medications beyond your wildest imagination.....in a good way.  (not everyday is perfect, I am just going with being wildly enthusiastic about your recovery/healing ).  AND, I bet progress for you, is just around the corner, right up the next mountain.......whatever........cheering you on with all my might, and keeping you close, prayers and/or meditations/vibes heading your way now.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

 

 

[Greatful]

@Frogie @manymoretodays

1 hour ago, Frogie said:

I made sure that the pharmacy would never change the brand and they gave me their word.

Do I start my crossover tomorrow from tablet to liquid, or wait a few days for the daily symptoms to be in? 

I am nervous with the fast metabolizers thing.   should I put eat with it?  How can I slow it down?  Hubby feels that I crush and the filers are pretty crushed too so maybe it will be okay.

 

As for the pharmacy, they told me that there supplier changed.  I will check with them if they can still get it at a higher cost?  Unfortunately I will be changing brand with the pills to liquid now😖  It's good that it will be a slow crossover.  I had a brand change with the Lamictal last pill refill and had a few rough days.  But who knows it's been a stressful few weeks too.

32 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

use your tools too, you know, all the non-drug coping tools you have gleaned up until today, as to how to manage feelings and emotions, and all the waves that hit us. 

I have a wonderful and patient member here that has taught me so much, she has been there for me every step of the way.  No matter how needy I get🥴 So hopefully she will stay with me and help keep me sane lol.  Although I think I am a hard learner ( the Finn in me, stubborn)  I need to channel it in helping me get through this. lol  I need to work hard on positivity/self worth. A big game changer for me and how I see myself.   Learn shelf love my Heidi😁

 

Here is my drugs.com report    https://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=1013-565,1430-848,2228-0,133-54,3906-0,238-3823,1749-15695,3205-15943

 

No I do not smoke ( I quit about 30 years ago, started at a very young age🤢) I was a big coffee drinker and had to quit it when everything hit the wall.  About a year ago.  I sneak few sips here and there🥴

 

I have the liquid Lexapro already, my insurance covers it Yeah. 

 

I will start the drug/symptoms tomorrow. Should I wait a few days to start the crossover? 

Did I miss anything?

 

Thank you so much for all the help and positive energy❤️

[Frogie]

Hi @Greatful

 

I would give it a couple of days and get the symptoms written down so you know your baseline.

 

Do you know if the pharmacy would take that bottle back and give you the manufacture that they are sticking with since you haven't opened it? That might be an idea, then you are starting with the one you are (hopefully) sticking with. 

 

I think try drinking it in a glass of apple juice (or some sort of juice) then have a snack or meal with it and you will probably be ok. It don't think taking it on an empty stomach would help you. I'd try taking it twice a day too since you are starting out fresh. Since you metabolize so fast. You can always switch in a few days to once a day if you don't do well with the twice a day. As you already know, it takes about 4 days for it to be steady in your system.

 

So, please keep the notes coming so we know how you are doing. 

 

And you are Finn? I'm 1/4 (at least) Finn, so I know what you are saying lol... but just breath. We are all here for each other and we are here for you.❤️

[Greatful]

@Frogie

I am as close as you can get to 100% Finn.  So SISU all the way🌞 I married a full Finn too. The kids are now spreading out and bring in of a variety lol

 

Sadly I asked for the same brand of liquid as the pills and they do not get that brand in liquid.

Not sure if I want to split, change brand and go from liquid all at the same time.  I hate being so miserable.  

 

I feel a little spring in my attitude and mind set so, Thank You again❤️

[Frogie]

@Greatful

 

My dad was at least 1/2 Finn, maybe more, but he passed away so I really don't know. I do know my great-grandparents were 100% Finn, settling in Montana.

 

I don't know if you want to "rock the boat", changing from tablets to liquid and different brands after the time you've had. I went from different brand tablets to liquid and did "ok". But like I said I had problems with the tablets.

 

If you chose to switch, I'll be here to help you.

 

I'm glad to hear you have some spring!❤️

[manymoretodays]

Yes to what Frogie said.  Why not look at a couple days first?  Before you do any cross overs to liquid.

Maybe DataGuy will share his many data based articles again for us too.

 

I really don't know what to say around the fast metabolism......given the other drugs you are on, or might have been on at the time of your genesite test.  And then also I think we will get a better picture when we see your dailies too.  Of just what drug might be doing what, etc.

 

Thanks so much for the interaction report.  You can also view it with the "professional version too"  You just click the tab at the top.  What did you think about it?

 

And oh my gosh.....I am probably pretty close to 100% too.  Of the proud Finn type.   My maternal grandfather was a "Swedish Finn" whatever that might mean.  I've got some guaranteed "mutt" breeding thrown in no doubt too.  A lot of mix, internationally mind you??   I love sauna's and sweat lodges(not recommending mind you to those in early or any stage of WD).  I mean I do though, always have benefited not only physically, but spiritually from both I guess.

 

Okie doke.  Thanks so much Greatful, for doing your part in your self care too.  Supports are wonderful too.  Sane is sometimes overrated if you know what I mean 🙈, no worries I don't want you to be un -sane or insane......and it's not like you do not try to help anyone in need yourself.  Do do what you can though, I meant more along the lines of mastering techniques that will serve you well now, and then beyond drugs too.  It's all a process, and takes time.

 

Like what do you do, that you would recommend to someone else?  I still take Epsom salt baths, not daily, but frequently.  I do candles, and music, and scents for calming.  I love Yoga and ski-ing, and swimming, and hiking or walking.  My best meditation is often in movement.  I have favorites that I listen too, as far as guided meditations, and ever changing books I read and then work on some of the stuff mentioned in them.  You know.....the self help type stuff of many varieties.  I have a therapist who always remembers to tell me when I have mastered something, or done good at something.  And who also helps me put life's stuff into better boxes if you will......helps me see that I am pretty darn normal.  I'll add in, in my own abnormal way.  I do the 12 steps, in AA, and all that.  I'm guessing I do more......and it varies from time to time.  I'm presently working on my mornings......making them sunnier somehow........doing something new before I go to sleep to hopefully help me sleep calmer, and wake up more collected.  Lately, my dream world is fascinating.  I'm finally doing some trauma work with a psychologist and on my own too. 

Okay, well enough on me.

But that's what I meant on doing your own self care, learning to like and even love yourself too.  I have had to work at that a lot.  Most of us do.

 

Okay, thanks again. 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by manymoretodays

[Greatful]

@Frogie  @manymoretodays

Here is my daily log for Thurs. and Friday

I rounded the times to the hour, half hour

My # scale is 1-10    1 is good and 10 is bad.

1-13 Thurs.

 restless sleep up once to go to the bathroom, 

back to sleep slept fairly sound until

4:30am-    Panic, brain intense with panic, fear,  7/10 weak/heavy muscle,   anxiety Body and                            brain buzzing like static 7/10  White music

5:30am-   100mg magnesium

6:30am-    symptoms decrease  5/10

7am-          .0625 Xanax    Brain squeezing 7/10  dizzy inner shaking 5/10 ear pressure 5/10

                   dr  4/10  Brain and body buzzing/static 5/10  Low mood 4/10

8am-           Lexapro 4.20mgai   37.5mgai Lamictal-    Breakfast 

9am-         Muscles feel cold/ frozen 7/10  brain squeezing/ numb in back,  Buzzing brain 

                  and body,  Anxiety  all at 5/10 Brain freezing/ cold on top

10am-       Left side of face numb ( I get numbness that moves around my face mostly on my l

                  side and around my left eye comes and goes)

10am -      tried to do some light housework got over stimulated and above                                                   symptoms ramped  up to 8/10  started to pant, heavy breathing, shaky

11:30am-   Lunch and  back on recliner

 

12pam-   Decrease in symptoms 

1pm-  Vitamin C, Probiotic, Omega 3  

1pm- 3pm Meditate 

3pm- Buzzing in brain and body '  5/10  Brain sore and tight on top

4"30pm  Magnesium 100mg

5pm-  Dinner  and Omega 3 symptoms are about the same but at 3/10

6pm-  Brain really squeezing

8:pm- Xanax .0625mgai 

9:30-  Trazodone 25mgai  and a pinch (.1mg?) of Melatonin (trying to taper off so it might be                                                                                                          a placebo thing)

9:30pm- meditation/white noise

10pm lights out white music

Brain hurts or has something going on all day.  body/ muscle weakness all day and dizzy when standing 

 

1/15  Friday

1:30am- wake up  set white noise for a few hours

4am- Wake up panic in body and brain anxiety fear 8/10

4:30- Magnesium 100mg  white noise and calm breathing

6am- Decrease in symptoms 6/10 but now add in brain squeezing brain cold/freezing 7/10                  weak  muscles and dizzy when standing 6/10

7am- Xanax .0625mgai  Brain still doing it's stuff and now body and inner shaking

8am- Lexapro 4.20mgai - Lamictal 37.5mgai  Breakfast, same symptoms as above now add                on  ear  pressure

10am- headache and brain panic 

12:30pm- lunch and Vitamin C, Probiotic, Omega 3  Symptoms about the same 5/10

1pm to 3pm- meditate  small bursts of panic, brain crushing in on top  

3:30pm  50mg of Magnesium

5pm  make dinner, super weak in arms and legs and shaky 8/10  Brain cold/ burning (hard to tell) 6/10  Omega 3

5:30 Anxiety 6/10 panic 6/10

6:60 Buzzing/static through body and arms and legs 6/10

7pm- crushing/ burning/cold brain. 7/10 These sensation are on the move around my brain all day            everyday and intensity will very. for 2 to 10

8:30pm- Xanax  .0625mgai 

9:30m- Trazodone 25mgai- a pinch of Melatonin

9:30-10pm  set  white noise for a few hours and meditate

10pm lights out

I generally fall asleep fairly quick.  

 

 

The  thing that is the hardest is the brain that has so some much physical things going on.  It feels like it miss shaped or missing a piece most of the time and I feel like I can think with a half a brain, Blunting then my ocd paranioa morphs more.  Blunting makes it hard it think.

 

 

The inner shaking and buzzing range from 2 to 7 most days.   

Extreme dizzy when standing  comes and go from day to day and will be as bad as 2 to 10

My over all depression is now more of a low mood that from 2/10 to 5/10

Reg anxiety is coming down from day to day to  3/10 to 7/10

 I also have noticed I can hardly do anything without physical I get to over stimulated and the brain/body goes nuts.🥴

 

 spring my symptoms  hovered  between a 8/10 to 8/10 with symptoms.

 

 now around 4/10 to 7/10   When I am at my worst in doesn't seem to last as many days, if I take care of myself and lay around. 

 

On 1/12/2022 at 6:08 PM, manymoretodays said:

Do do what you can though, I meant more along the lines of mastering techniques that will serve you well now, and then beyond drugs too.  It's all a process, and takes time.

Mia1 has taught me so much with meditation, about how to work with the relentless thoughts and so much more.  I know I still have so  much to learn.  Acceptance is a hard one for me. I hope it will come.  I guess that I let it out of the bag that I am Finn and have that built in SISU 

I will have to use it........You my  two fellow Finn's will hold me accountable lol

Do you know what SISU means?

 

Let me know what to do next....Switch to liquid?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 I also have noticed I can hardly do anything without physical I get to over stimulated and the brain goes nuts.🥴

 

 

 

 

 

 

          

       

[Frogie]

@Greatful

 

I'm wondering of splitting your Lexapro would help. Since you metabolize so fast, that might bring you some relief.

 

You could try the liquid. I found it much, much easier to use to taper. But I had problems with the tablets so it didn't bother me too much to switch. It might be better for you without all the fillers also.

 

I'm tagging @DataGuy he's really good at this metabolizing. But I know he is really busy right now so it might be a couple days or so before we hear back from him.

 

In the meantime, can you try maybe Epson salt baths and more relaxation while we get this sorted out.

 

BTW I don't know what SISU means?

 

Hang in there my friend. We will get you feeling better🙂❤️

[Greatful]

@Frogie

SISU means in English translation strength of will, determination, perseverance, and acting rationally in the face of adversity. Sisu is not momentary courage, but the ability to sustain that courage.   I will have to dig all this out from deep inside 🙄

This is crazy WD went on a quick errand  with hubby and grab a quick lunch.  Way over stimulated was shaking and brain buzzing by the time I got home.  Off to meditate🥴

 

I think I will start the switch to liquid tomorrow🥴

Thanks Frogie  I appreciate all you do for us❤️

 

[Frogie]

@Greatful

 

I think you might do better with the liquid. It sounds to me that you are having problems with the tablets.

 

I sure hope we can get you some stabilization and get you feeling better.

 

You are a "wava flicka" (I don't know if I spelled it right. But my great grandpa used to tell me that all the time.🙂