Catina7: Effexor withdrawal / destabilized central nervous system

[Catina7]

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

@Catina7  Hi Catina7!  I popped in over here because I liked what you had to say on other people's posts, and now I see you're a fellow bead counter!  🤹‍♀️😊  

That last 37.5 mg is a doozie, isn't it?!?  I think by the time I got down to 20 beads or so I could only lower by one per cut.   How on earth one little tiny bead can affect me like that, I'll never know, but it sure did.  Tapering that stuff rocked my world in just about every way, I had some real issues. That said, I was able to get off and stay off.  Now I'm tackling the other half of my drug cocktail that I was told I could easily quit 🙄🙄

 

I always enjoy reading your posts!

 

Oh thank you so much!  I am planning on resuming my taper the beginning of next year.  I'm really scared, but I learned so much of what not to do during my first attempt at tapering.  I almost didn't make it through it was so bad.  But to know that you were able to get off and stay off definitely gives me HOPE!  After I get off the Effexor I have Trazodone to taper.  And before the Effexor I tapered lorazepam, but honestly that was a breeze compared to the Effexor.  I wish you the best too with your own tapering journey!  

[j1290]

3 hours ago, Catina7 said:

And before the Effexor I tapered lorazepam, but honestly that was a breeze compared to the Effexor.

Wow, you tapered off a benzo already?!?   Congrats on that, it's a huge achievement!  I've never done it, but I read benzobuddies now and then and it looks like a really, really tough road.

 

3 hours ago, Catina7 said:

I'm really scared, but I learned so much of what not to do during my first attempt at tapering.  I almost didn't make it through it was so bad. 

I had to reinstate Bupropion after a year of a failed taper.  I wish I was off already, don't get me wrong, but that paved the way for me to know how to do it right this time around.   

 

If there's a way to describe a venlafaxine crash, I don't know what it is.  It wasn't unusual for me to hold for months because I went too fast and crashed and was terrified to do another cut.   Good on you for not rushing into things till you're ready.  

 

Do you think you're going to count beads this next time, or do a liquid taper, or ?   

[Catina7]

7 hours ago, j1290 said:

Wow, you tapered off a benzo already?!?   Congrats on that, it's a huge achievement!  I've never done it, but I read benzobuddies now and then and it looks like a really, really tough road.

 

I had to reinstate Bupropion after a year of a failed taper.  I wish I was off already, don't get me wrong, but that paved the way for me to know how to do it right this time around.   

 

If there's a way to describe a venlafaxine crash, I don't know what it is.  It wasn't unusual for me to hold for months because I went too fast and crashed and was terrified to do another cut.   Good on you for not rushing into things till you're ready.  

 

Do you think you're going to count beads this next time, or do a liquid taper, or ?   

 

Yes, I tapered off a Benzo!  It wasn't a very high dose.  I may have had a little increased anxiety, but other than that it wasn't a problem at all.  I've heard the horror stories too, and I'm very grateful it wasn't like that for me.

 

For the Effexor taper, I am planning on counting beads like I did before, but when I get down to the very end (depending on how I'm doing), I might try to switch to a liquid taper.  I'm going to go much, much slower than I did last time because all the months of cutting 10% caught up with me in a horrible way.  I never want to experience that again!  

 

Thank you for your support @j1290!  😊

[j1290]

10 hours ago, Catina7 said:

For the Effexor taper, I am planning on counting beads like I did before, but when I get down to the very end (depending on how I'm doing), I might try to switch to a liquid taper.

I think I just didn't want to mess with it at the time, but if I were to do it over again, I'd probably use liquid at the end too.  I was able to do it but I think it would have been easier if I'd been able to go a little slower.   

10 hours ago, Catina7 said:

I'm going to go much, much slower than I did last time because all the months of cutting 10% caught up with me in a horrible way.  I never want to experience that again!  

Really glad to hear you made it out of that.  Tapering venlafaxine is not an easy thing.   I was tired of being in WD after missing a dose on vacation or running out of meds or whatever, and didn't have a clue what I was getting into back then.  I've never once missed it, so I guess I didn't need it anymore.   

 

Looking forward to hearing more about your journey!

[Catina7]

43 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I think I just didn't want to mess with it at the time, but if I were to do it over again, I'd probably use liquid at the end too.  I was able to do it but I think it would have been easier if I'd been able to go a little slower.   

Really glad to hear you made it out of that.  Tapering venlafaxine is not an easy thing.   I was tired of being in WD after missing a dose on vacation or running out of meds or whatever, and didn't have a clue what I was getting into back then.  I've never once missed it, so I guess I didn't need it anymore.   

 

Looking forward to hearing more about your journey!

 

Thank you very much; I greatly appreciate you saying that!  

[Catina7]

I saw my psychiatric nurse practitioner this morning.  She is a very sweet Indian lady who took over when my original person left.  I really like her a lot and we get along very well.  Ever since I've been seeing her I've been holding at my current dose of Effexor and haven't made any changes.  However, today I thought I'd feel her out regarding when I want to resume my taper the beginning of next year.  I asked her if she would support me if I wanted to do a very slow taper of my Effexor and lo and behold she said YES!  She said she understands how hard it can be to come off of.  I was very thankful and relieved.  I just hope she realizes what I mean by "slow" lol.  

[j1290]

21 minutes ago, Catina7 said:

She said she understands how hard it can be to come off of.

Wow, you don't hear that every day.  Congratulations!  

[Catina7]

6 minutes ago, j1290 said:

Wow, you don't hear that every day.  Congratulations!  

 

Yeah, I know!  Thank you.  I hope everything will go alright. 

[FeralCatman]

On 11/22/2022 at 11:15 AM, Catina7 said:

  I got so angry about what this drug has done to people that I wrote a letter to Pfizer, Viatris, the FDA, and contacted both major and minor news outlets.  I doubt anything will come of it, but it was therapeutic for me to express myself.

I've done this on several occasions myself and even though there was nothing that came out of it it was definitely therapeutic to write it down and send it. Sometimes I wonder if drafting an open letter or petition and  putting it on a website and circulating it to allow everyone that has been hurt by these medications to sign on to it and then sending it to our politicians and the FDA would have any impact on policy. Many organizations do this and there are websites that allow people to start petitions that do this.

[Cheeky]

Hi 👋🏼 @Catina7, 

I’m Cheeky and I thought I’d pop by to say HI . I’ve been reading through your thread and am sorry you had to learn the hard way of going off these drugs too quickly. I’m happy you’re in a better place . 
This is a cruel journey where on and we never know what to expect.  Day by day minute by minute things can change , very unpredictable. I’ve learnt the hard way many times and realise it’s better to go slower even though we hate being trapped on them . 
I know our success story will happen eventually. 
Take care 💜

[Catina7]

3 hours ago, Cheeky said:

Hi 👋🏼 @Catina7, 

I’m Cheeky and I thought I’d pop by to say HI . I’ve been reading through your thread and am sorry you had to learn the hard way of going off these drugs too quickly. I’m happy you’re in a better place . 
This is a cruel journey where on and we never know what to expect.  Day by day minute by minute things can change , very unpredictable. I’ve learnt the hard way many times and realise it’s better to go slower even though we hate being trapped on them . 
I know our success story will happen eventually. 
Take care 💜

 

Hi @Cheeky!  Thanks for saying hello!  Yes, I learned the hard way just like so many others on here.  I agree, slow is best, no matter how long it takes us.  I see you started the Brassmonkey Slide Method.  I think that's what I'm going to do when I start tapering again.  I hope everything goes smoothly for you!

 

We will ALL be writing our success stories one day.  😊

[felinegaze]

Hey Catina,

How has today been for you?

I hope things are bearable.

Thanks for all the support you're giving on here.

F

[Catina7]

1 hour ago, felinegaze said:

Hey Catina,

How has today been for you?

I hope things are bearable.

Thanks for all the support you're giving on here.

F

 

Hi!  I've been doing pretty well for the most part.  Holding for a long time was the best thing for me.  It's been 18 long months, but I feel much better than I did before.

 

I hope you're doing okay today!

[AprilShowers]

I'm so glad things are more stable for you. Sometimes a sure recovery is better than a swift one. 

[Catina7]

7 minutes ago, AprilShowers said:

I'm so glad things are more stable for you. Sometimes a sure recovery is better than a swift one. 

 

Thank you so much.  How are things going with you?  What's the latest on the that sound vibration next door?

[AprilShowers]

7 minutes ago, Catina7 said:

 

Thank you so much.  How are things going with you?  What's the latest on the that sound vibration next door?

It's gotten a little less intense. Environmental health are trying to help but haven't been able to witness it on their visits. Its so random. Just trying to manage my response to it as much as possible and taking things day by day. 

 

[Catina7]

3 minutes ago, AprilShowers said:

It's gotten a little less intense. Environmental health are trying to help but haven't been able to witness it on their visits. Its so random. Just trying to manage my response to it as much as possible and taking things day by day. 

 

 

I'm glad to hear that it's gotten a little bit better for you and that you're able to manage it the best you can.  Maybe Environmental health can one day figure out what it is!

[Cheeky]

9 hours ago, Catina7 said:

 

Hi @Cheeky!  Thanks for saying hello!  Yes, I learned the hard way just like so many others on here.  I agree, slow is best, no matter how long it takes us.  I see you started the Brassmonkey Slide Method.  I think that's what I'm going to do when I start tapering again.  I hope everything goes smoothly for you!

 

We will ALL be writing our success stories one day.  😊

Yeah I have and so far it’s been manageable. I don’t think we can ever get away from some symptoms but if they’re bearable then that a good sign .

[Catina7]

Please don't feel like you need to read this or respond, but I'm just documenting the fact that I've experienced a horrible wave or setback.  My anxiety has really been up lately and I'm not sure why.  I guess this is just another wave of symptoms that I'm experiencing.  It's disheartening when you think you've gotten better but then suddenly things take a turn for the worse.  Last night was the worst night that I've had for the past 18+ months.  Anxiety through the roof, agitation, and just feeling so revved up inside that I wanted to jump out of my skin.  I couldn't fall asleep until 4 am and then I think I slept 1.5 hours.  It really brought up memories of when I crashed back in September of 2021, but I tried to remain as calm as possible and remind myself that this is just a bump in the road, that it will eventually pass.  Needless to say, I feel pretty awful this morning...still feeling so revved up and agitated and then sleep deprived on top of it.  Oh boy, it's gonna be a great day - not!  It makes me wonder how I'm ever going to be able to get off this poisonous drug.  I haven't changed my dose in over a year and a half!  What other horrors lie ahead waiting for me as I try to free myself from this toxin?  I try not to worry about the future, but sometimes I can't help but wonder what is going to happen to me.  

 

I do draw strength from everyone on here who is fighting the same battle, some worse off than I am.  I wish none of us had to go through any of this.  I have seen too much of the dark side of psychiatry for me to ever put my trust in it again.  I want out.  But unfortunately, the only way to make it out of the fire is to walk straight through it.  

 

If you are reading this, I will keep on fighting if you will...

[Catina7]

P.S.  I'm wondering if it's my body going deep into ketosis that triggered this anxiety.  When I checked my keto strip the last time it was a dark purple, and that's when I noticed my anxiety go up.  I normally eat a keto diet and don't seem to have a problem generally speaking, but maybe I haven't been that deep into ketosis for a long tine.  I don't know.  It's the only thing I can think of that could have a bearing on this awful setback.  I'm going to add in just a few more carbs to see if that helps.

[AprilShowers]

I'm sorry you're experiencing this, I do hope it evens out for you soon. I agree that it's really disheartening to suffer setbacks, I will join you in trying to hang in there and get through this. 

[felinegaze]

4 hours ago, Catina7 said:

Please don't feel like you need to read this or respond, but I'm just documenting the fact that I've experienced a horrible wave or setback.  My anxiety has really been up lately and I'm not sure why.  I guess this is just another wave of symptoms that I'm experiencing.  It's disheartening when you think you've gotten better but then suddenly things take a turn for the worse.  Last night was the worst night that I've had for the past 18+ months.  Anxiety through the roof, agitation, and just feeling so revved up inside that I wanted to jump out of my skin.  I couldn't fall asleep until 4 am and then I think I slept 1.5 hours.  It really brought up memories of when I crashed back in September of 2021, but I tried to remain as calm as possible and remind myself that this is just a bump in the road, that it will eventually pass.  Needless to say, I feel pretty awful this morning...still feeling so revved up and agitated and then sleep deprived on top of it.  Oh boy, it's gonna be a great day - not!  It makes me wonder how I'm ever going to be able to get off this poisonous drug.  I haven't changed my dose in over a year and a half!  What other horrors lie ahead waiting for me as I try to free myself from this toxin?  I try not to worry about the future, but sometimes I can't help but wonder what is going to happen to me.  

 

I do draw strength from everyone on here who is fighting the same battle, some worse off than I am.  I wish none of us had to go through any of this.  I have seen too much of the dark side of psychiatry for me to ever put my trust in it again.  I want out.  But unfortunately, the only way to make it out of the fire is to walk straight through it.  

 

If you are reading this, I will keep on fighting if you will...

Hey, so sorry to hear that you've had a dreadful day. They're just the pits. Especially when you have numerous factors going on which could be affecting your mental health.

It sounds sensible to add in some more carbs if very low carb has heightened your anxiety previously.

And just keep trying things to break that fight or flight state- you will come out of it and things will not look so bad once you're clear of it. Right now you're presuming it's withdrawal when it may be that the other factors are contributing, so you can't say with certainty that you will have horrors ahead.

You do sound strong despite it all.

Yes, I'm fighting with you.

F

x

[Catina7]

31 minutes ago, AprilShowers said:

I'm sorry you're experiencing this, I do hope it evens out for you soon. I agree that it's really disheartening to suffer setbacks, I will join you in trying to hang in there and get through this. 

 

Thank you so much.  We're all hanging in there together.  Hugs 4 u!

[Catina7]

11 minutes ago, felinegaze said:

Hey, so sorry to hear that you've had a dreadful day. They're just the pits. Especially when you have numerous factors going on which could be affecting your mental health.

It sounds sensible to add in some more carbs if very low carb has heightened your anxiety previously.

And just keep trying things to break that fight or flight state- you will come out of it and things will not look so bad once you're clear of it. Right now you're presuming it's withdrawal when it may be that the other factors are contributing, so you can't say with certainty that you will have horrors ahead.

You do sound strong despite it all.

Yes, I'm fighting with you.

F

x

 

Thank you.  I'm trying to be strong.  It's so much easier to cheer on other people than it is yourself haha.

[Catina7]

Well, after keeping myself out of deep ketosis and taking a Benadryl, I slept for about 12 hours last night.  I'm so relieved.  It's crazy how we can convince ourselves that our current suffering is going to last forever!  Going through this whole withdrawal thing is a definite learning experience in finding what works and what doesn't.  And everyone is so different in how their body reacts to certain things.  For myself, it seems that going into deep ketosis triggers an acute hyper-manic state that causes extreme anxiety and insomnia.  I am still going to keep my carbs low, but I just have to make sure I don't get too far into ketosis.  

 

I hope everyone is hanging in there as best as they can.....one day at a time. ❤️

[FeralCatman]

@Catina7 One thing to remember about the brain is that it is a glucose hog. I read that 70% of the glucose in the body is used to fuel the brain. While destabilized it is probably higher. So, though everyone is different, it's probably best not to deprive the brain of it's primary fuel.

 

As I said everyone is different so individual experimentation is key but this is good food for thought.

[Catina7]

50 minutes ago, FeralCatman said:

@Catina7 One thing to remember about the brain is that it is a glucose hog. I read that 70% of the glucose in the body is used to fuel the brain. While destabilized it is probably higher. So, though everyone is different, it's probably best not to deprive the brain of it's primary fuel.

 

As I said everyone is different so individual experimentation is key but this is good food for thought.

 

Thanks for your thoughts @FeralCatman.  I do appreciate your concern!  😺

[j1290]

7 hours ago, Catina7 said:

It's crazy how we can convince ourselves that our current suffering is going to last forever! 

It always feels like it'll last forever, even when I know intellectually that it won't.  Every single time.  

[Catina7]

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

It always feels like it'll last forever, even when I know intellectually that it won't.  Every single time.  

 

Right!  It's crazyyyyy how our minds play tricks on us...smh. 

[Catina7]

I met with family today and did my best to socialize for what ended up being 4.5 hours.  It was sooo hard.  My nervous system is still so sensitive to any kind of stress, especially being around people (yes, even my own relatives 😢).  It's tough feeling so intensely bad and trying to smile and act like I'm okay.  I did go into another room to rest toward the end.  They do know what I'm dealing with and are understanding, but it's still hard.  I wonder how I'm ever going to be able to taper down anymore when my nervous system still feels so unstable.  The anxiety becomes almost unbearable when I have to socialize with people.  I probably should have cut my visit short, but I don't get to see them very much.  I'm worried that if I try to taper again I will end up even worse, and I don't think I could survive it.  I hope I'm not trapped on these drugs for the rest of my life.  Anyway, I just wanted to record the status of my progress so I can keep track.  Have any of you experienced something similar?  Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Thank you.

[Catina7]

I slept for 10 hours last night, which I desperately needed, but I still feel the effects of the stress from yesterday.  The fact that I was able to sleep at all after being in such a horrible state shows that I'm healing a tiny bit.  It's going to take me a few more days to recover though. 

 

When I was tapering too fast and then had my crash back in September 2021, it was such a shock to my nervous system.  It does take a long time to recover from something like that.  I just hope I recover enough to where I feel I can start tapering again.  Time will tell I guess.  

 

 

[FeralCatman]

@Catina7 I have had similar experiences many times. There have been times when I went to a family function and abruptly left. On the way home I would get a call and they'd wonder where I was and I told them I had to leave. However, I have always been a bit introverted and antisocial but withdrawal makes it much worse. For awhile it was difficult to function while out and about. I am definitely getting through it and I am sure that you will as well. If you haven't already you may want to go to the Outro Health library and read up on what they say about withdrawal. Here is the link. I have found this library to be an invaluable resource. So has my psych provider.

 

https://learn.outro.com/home

[Catina7]

16 minutes ago, FeralCatman said:

@Catina7 I have had similar experiences many times. There have been times when I went to a family function and abruptly left. On the way home I would get a call and they'd wonder where I was and I told them I had to leave. However, I have always been a bit introverted and antisocial but withdrawal makes it much worse. For awhile it was difficult to function while out and about. I am definitely getting through it and I am sure that you will as well. If you haven't already you may want to go to the Outro Health library and read up on what they say about withdrawal. Here is the link. I have found this library to be an invaluable resource. So has my psych provider.

 

https://learn.outro.com/home

 

Thank you for your thoughts @FeralCatman!  I'm glad to know I'm not alone.  I am introverted and antisocial myself.  I like people, but being around them and interacting and socializing completely drains me; it's completely exhausting!  And that's under "normal" circumstances...so yes, when you throw in WD on top of that it's extra hard.  Makes me want to crawl under a rock and stay there.  

 

I have indeed been to Outro's website and love it!  Lots of great information and advice on there.  I am on the waiting list for the US! 

[FeralCatman]

5 minutes ago, Catina7 said:

 I like people, but being around them and interacting and socializing completely drains me; it's completely exhausting!  And that's under "normal" circumstances...so yes, when you throw in WD on top of that it's extra hard.  Makes me want to crawl under a rock and stay there.

Socializing for me is more of a cognitive process than something that flows naturally. So everything I do in social situations is a thought process and appropriate reactions and such come from working memory. They tend not to be fluid and spontaneous. I can do it but it's very exhausting on a good day and in WD....forget it. I've been like this since my earliest memories. Most of what people do is a bit baffling to me. I am also a bit lucky in that I've never been homesick, never missed my family, etc. so it gives me a freedom from those kind of attachments that really cause a lot of hardship with a lot of people. I've always been able to go from place to place and find what I needed wherever I was. There is a reason why I packed up and moved to a larger property in the mountains in the middle of nowhere. I definitely value my quiet time.  😉✌️😺😺

[BigCat]

@FeralCatman

We are constantly under media pressure to assume that being highly sociable is normal and desirable.  The media sells clothes, booze, cars, tech, etc. to reinforce that view.  Like we're not allowed just to be ourselves.  Being highly sociable is, statistically, for a minority.  The "normal" bell curve allows most of us to be sociable sometimes.  We are burdened by other's expectations.  And then we feel guilty...

 

[j1290]

12 hours ago, Catina7 said:

I just hope I recover enough to where I feel I can start tapering again.  Time will tell I guess.  

I think you'll figure out what works for you.  The good news is from everything I've read, that people do eventually, all too slowly, return to whatever their baseline is. 

 

23 hours ago, Catina7 said:

I wonder how I'm ever going to be able to taper down anymore when my nervous system still feels so unstable. 

My first attempt at tapering failed.  Long story short, once I reduced the med I'd been taking for 20 years, even when I returned to the original dose and time release, it never worked right again, I was unstable and uncomfortable.   I was terrified because I was having heavy symptoms on a dose I'd been taking for decades just fine, how would I be able to taper?!  Eventually I decided if I'm going to feel uncomfortable no matter what, I'd rather at least be on a lower dose.  I figured this was my new WD normal and started tapering.  Now almost a year later I'm on a much lower dose and feeling way better than where I started.  

 

Everybody's situation is different, this is just my own.   

 

11 hours ago, FeralCatman said:

There is a reason why I packed up and moved to a larger property in the mountains in the middle of nowhere. I definitely value my quiet time.  😉✌️😺😺

FCM is my freaking hero 😁🤣😉😺  What I'd give to live in the mountains.  

 

23 hours ago, Catina7 said:

It's tough feeling so intensely bad and trying to smile and act like I'm okay. 

I'm super proud of you for attending and showing up with your A game, despite all the challenges.  I visit relatives yearly myself and it seems like I'm off my rocker due to one thing or another every time 🤣🤣🤣  I'm really hoping to show up this year in a better state, but, who knows 😂  I've accepted i'm the crazy uncle and it really doesn't matter one bit.  

 

Something I discovered is childhood trauma comes out in weird ways, and since doing  a few years of EMDR my nervousness has settled down quite a bit.  I always suspected I had PTSD or something, but never found any relief in CBT, but EMDR has helped like nothing else.  Glad I've done it.  

 

Good on you for taking some time to collect yourself after a big gathering.  I think you're doing great, Catina7!