Catina7: Effexor withdrawal / destabilized central nervous system

[NotQuiteMyself]

13 hours ago, BigCat said:

I identify with so much of what you have posted.  

The worst part of all of this is feeling you’re dealing with it completely alone. To know how devastating it is, you really have to experience it yourself. And to each other, we don’t have to explain, because we all just know.

[NotQuiteMyself]

On 7/27/2023 at 12:11 PM, Catina7 said:

Okay, so I have come to the conclusion that for me I must keep myself out of ketosis

So this is another thing I’ve been puzzled about for years. When the Atkins diet was the latest thing, my husband and I (I sound like the queen) thought we’d give it a go - I wanted to work on my 56 paroxeteine pounds and my husband has a sausage habit. I played by all the rules and went into ketosis but felt like I had permanent PMT. Also, I didn’t lose any weight. My husband lost about 25 pounds in an instant and didn’t feel any different mood-wise.

Everyone post-Christmas or pre-summer cuts out carbs but I just can’t. I need them for mood and sleep and if I don’t have them the WD is so much worse. It was so interesting to read your thoughts on ketosis.

[Catina7]

2 hours ago, NotQuiteMyself said:

felt like I had permanent PMT

 

Hey!  Thanks for your thoughts.  May I ask what "PMT" stands for?  

 

How long did you stick with the diet?  It's surprising you didn't lose anything.  And yes, isn't it sickening how it's much easier for men to lose weight?!  It's the same thing with my husband.  He lost 50 pounds doing keto and intermittent fasting.  The most I lost was about 30.

 

Before I started tapering, keto really served me well and once my body got used to it I loved it!  However, once my body went into withdrawal mode and my nervous system got sensitized, that's when I discovered that my body didn't like it.  When I am completely off all my drugs and my nervous system gets back to normal (let's hope!), then I really want to get back to the keto diet.  I've had to add back in some carbs and I hate the fact that I've gained a bit of weight because of it.  😩 

[NotQuiteMyself]

6 hours ago, Catina7 said:

May I ask what "PMT" stands for?  

Hi Catina, pre-menstrual tension, also called PMS. I didn’t know whether to rip everyone’s head off or just cry a lot.

 

During my first year on paroxeteine I put on 56 pounds and I’m still carrying it now, 23 years later. I’ve tried everything, Slimming World, Weight Watchers you name it. Weight gain on these drugs always seems to be explained away by increased appetite, but I didn’t change anything, it just piled on. The only time weight has shifted was when I came off trimipramine too fast and hardly ate for 6 months. I lost about 28 pounds on about 400 calories a day. I live in hope that one day the weight will start to drop off as inexplicably as it crept on, but who knows?

 

I suppose I stayed on the Atkins for about 6 weeks. I don’t really like keto as I’m not a big meat eater. I love carbs and fruit veg and grains, but I’m very strict with myself about the quantity of carbs I’m allowed. My shopping trolley looks ultra-healthy!

 

It’s great that keto works for you and you can look forward to getting back on track when all this is over. 

[Catina7]

12 minutes ago, NotQuiteMyself said:

pre-menstrual tension, also called PMS

 

Ahhh...okay then!  I'm quite familiar with it as I had a severe form of PMS called PMDD (Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder) for decades.  I've finally reached menopause so I know longer have to worry about it thank goodness!  

 

As far as diet goes, I think everyone just has to find what works for them.  I think as a general rule, though, it's best to stay away from sugar and high-glycemic carbs.  And eat lots of veggies!  You can't go wrong with those things.  Metabolic syndrome and diabetes are on the rise and it's because of peoples' diets!

[AprilShowers]

On 8/15/2023 at 8:08 PM, Catina7 said:

 

Thank you for your response @AprilShowers.  You hang in there as well.  Hang tight, hang left, hang right (I just literally made up that little ditty right now lol!) 😃

Excellent!  

[Carmie]

Dear @Catina7, I hope you’re having a pleasant day. I appreciate you popping over to my neck of the woods and your kindness. I can’t help but smile every time I see your avatar, it’s adorable! All your beautiful posts everywhere are so encouraging too. 
 

Sending hugs your way🤗

[Catina7]

8 hours ago, Carmie said:

Dear @Catina7, I hope you’re having a pleasant day. I appreciate you popping over to my neck of the woods and your kindness. I can’t help but smile every time I see your avatar, it’s adorable! All your beautiful posts everywhere are so encouraging too. 
 

Sending hugs your way🤗

 

Thank you!  You are going through so much, and for you to take the time to come here and say those things is so kind.  Your posts always make me smile!  

 

Sending you back a big bear hug!  🤗

[Catina7]

UPDATE:

 

I have been grappling with whether I should continue my taper beginning next year.  After watching the video Can I Heal While Taking Psychiatric Drugs?, I have made a decision that has given me some peace of mind.    

 

After recently undergoing a severe stress reaction that triggered a horrible wave of anxiety and panic, it's clear that my nervous system is still very much in a dysregulated state.  The most important thing is for us to be stable and functional enough so we can withstand life's stressors so it doesn't send us over the edge.  While I hate more than anything being on a drug that causes severe long-lasting harm if I miss a single dose, I feel that the best thing to do at this point is to continue to hold at my current 37.5 mg dose until I feel that my nervous system is more regulated.  I've already been holding for close to two years now, but evidently it hasn't been long enough.  I have no idea when I'll feel stable enough to taper again, but I will continue to listen to what my body is telling me.  

Edited August 30, 2023 by Catina7

[FeralCatman]

That sounds like a good choice you have to do what your body allows you to do and not force it. 😉✌️😺😺

[BigCat]

@Catina7

I am concerned that you are taking on too much.  What do I know?  I hope I'm wrong.

It's flattering to take on a more responsible role here, but only if you can reach your own oxygen mask if the pressure drops before putting on your own ( 🙂 ).  

I will drop in and out of here as I feel able, but you were one of the first folk to offer me support, so here I am.  YCCOBYCNL.  

 

[Catina7]

1 hour ago, BigCat said:

@Catina7

I am concerned that you are taking on too much.  What do I know?  I hope I'm wrong.

It's flattering to take on a more responsible role here, but only if you can reach your own oxygen mask if the pressure drops before putting on your own ( 🙂 ).  

I will drop in and out of here as I feel able, but you were one of the first folk to offer me support, so here I am.  YCCOBYCNL.  

 

 

Thanks for your concern.  No, you're absolutely right.  I actually had to step aside as a moderator.  I was biting off more than I could chew at the moment.  I am now a "Mentor," which is what I was kind of doing anyway.  I like to be supportive to as many on here as I can.

 

Okay, now you have to tell me what YCCOBYCNL means lol!  

[2cats2272]

In hindsight, I would have absolutely held at 37.5 for much longer than the month I did. You’re doing this the right way. Listening to your body and understanding is commendable. I had the withdrawal effects and just kept plowing through. Great work @Catina7

[Catina7]

@2cats2272, how are you doing now?  Have your withdrawal symptoms gotten better?  

 

Yesterday I thought I wanted to keep holding, but today I'm second-guessing myself.  Am I just prolonging this misery when I could be doing a very slow taper down?  I just don't know what to do sometimes...sigh.  I'm terrified of having a horrible crash like I did last time.  I'd love to get your thoughts.  Thank you!  

Edited August 31, 2023 by Catina7

[BigCat]

21 hours ago, Catina7 said:

 

Thanks for your concern.  No, you're absolutely right.  I actually had to step aside as a moderator.  I was biting off more than I could chew at the moment.  I am now a "Mentor," which is what I was kind of doing anyway.  I like to be supportive to as many on here as I can.

 

Okay, now you have to tell me what YCCOBYCNL means lol!  

Thanks for accepting that in the spirit that it was meant...

 

As for YCCOBYCNL, well I noticed you like acronyms and I thought I'd be clever, but have actually been too clever for myself!  I was trying to say that I might check out of the site sometimes, but I won't be leaving... but I got the lyrics wrong, D'Oh 🙄(slaps his head) It ought to have been YCCOATYLBYCNL.  

Perfect example of ambition over skill! 😂

You can check-out any time you like
But you can never leave

[BigCat]

1 hour ago, Catina7 said:

@2cats2272, how are you doing now?  Have your withdrawal symptoms gotten better?  

 

Yesterday I thought I wanted to keep holding, but today I'm second-guessing myself.  Am I just prolonging this misery when I could be doing a very slow taper down?  I just don't know what to do sometimes...sigh.  I'm terrified of having a horrible crash like I did last time.  I'd love to get your thoughts.  Thank you!  

The nature of anxiety is to predict the worst.  It might not happen.  I also fear what is ahead, in case the "horror" returns.  What option do we have?  Keep going, let it pass.  It will pass. 

I used to say that depression taught me patience, but I'm realising coming off these pesky drugs is teaching me more, much more. 

Stay with it!! 

[Catina7]

28 minutes ago, BigCat said:

Thanks for accepting that in the spirit that it was meant...

 

As for YCCOBYCNL, well I noticed you like acronyms and I thought I'd be clever, but have actually been too clever for myself!  I was trying to say that I might check out of the site sometimes, but I won't be leaving... but I got the lyrics wrong, D'Oh 🙄(slaps his head) It ought to have been YCCOATYLBYCNL.  

Perfect example of ambition over skill! 😂

You can check-out any time you like
But you can never leave

 

Haha...your intentions were good!  😉

[j1290]

FWIW after 6+ months of holding on Bupropion after reinstating I grudgingly came to the conclusion that my unstable state was my new normal and tapered through it, starting slowly.   

 

I decided if I had to feel significant side effects, then I'd at least rather be on a lower dose and not drag it out any longer than I already had.  Given enough time, even people who CT get better, so I will too.  

 

I was absolutely terrified of losing what little stability I had, but considering my WD Normal was not good, I had to do something.  With 20/20 hindsite, it was the right move for me.  

 

As someone who tapered Effexor, that last part below 37.5mg was harsh and took me a very long time.  In hindsite I'm not even sure it was worth tapering it since I recall tolerating that dose well, but its been years.  

 

This sucks, Catina7, I wish I had an easy answer for you.  I'd encourage you to make decisions based on facts(easier said than done, because honestly emotion overrides every bit of logic I have most times  😂😂😂).  These are a few questions I wish I'd answered when I was tapering Effexor, and a few for you specifically:  Do you have evidence that you're going to get steadier after a 2 year hold?  Do you need to continue tapering, or are your symptoms tolerable?  Is it worth it to go through the challenges of tapering that last 37.5mg?  Do you need to try a small reduction to see if that's tolerable?  

 

I think you're handling this in a methodical and well considered manner.  You'll make a good decision whatever you do. 

[Catina7]

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

FWIW after 6+ months of holding on Bupropion after reinstating I grudgingly came to the conclusion that my unstable state was my new normal and tapered through it, starting slowly.   

 

I decided if I had to feel significant side effects, then I'd at least rather be on a lower dose and not drag it out any longer than I already had.  Given enough time, even people who CT get better, so I will too.  

 

I was absolutely terrified of losing what little stability I had, but considering my WD Normal was not good, I had to do something.  With 20/20 hindsite, it was the right move for me.  

 

As someone who tapered Effexor, that last part below 37.5mg was harsh and took me a very long time.  In hindsite I'm not even sure it was worth tapering it since I recall tolerating that dose well, but its been years.  

 

This sucks, Catina7, I wish I had an easy answer for you.  I'd encourage you to make decisions based on facts(easier said than done, because honestly emotion overrides every bit of logic I have most times  😂😂😂).  These are a few questions I wish I'd answered when I was tapering Effexor, and a few for you specifically:  Do you have evidence that you're going to get steadier after a 2 year hold?  Do you need to continue tapering, or are your symptoms tolerable?  Is it worth it to go through the challenges of tapering that last 37.5mg?  Do you need to try a small reduction to see if that's tolerable?  

 

I think you're handling this in a methodical and well considered manner.  You'll make a good decision whatever you do. 

 

I appreciate you taking the time to give me your input @j1290.  You have given me some really good questions to think about...thank you!  🙂

[2cats2272]

@Catina7 I’ve been decent! I mean it. Mornings still aren’t great but I’ve noticed a real shift. I’m starting to feel more like I think I should. It’s hard to judge because I don’t remember how I was prior to effexor. I also had 4 kids under 4 at that time. 
My anxiety is almost none existent in the afternoon/evening. I do have work to do on dealing with the actual anxiety itself but I’ve found it’s more of a feeling for me. Usually not thoughts. I’ve been listening to an audiobook anxiety rx and it resonates SO much. 
im sure that I’ll hit a wave again (although I’m really hoping I don’t). I’ve been too nervous to post because I don’t want to jynx it 🤦‍♀️ I will soon though because I’ve been off for 7 months. 
I wish I could advise you but my taper was far from ideal and way too fast. Maybe this is your baseline and you have to test the waters a bit. You know how to do it!!! 💜💜

[j1290]

 

1 minute ago, 2cats2272 said:

I wish I could advise you but my taper was far from ideal and way too fast.

Oh, you too?!?  😂😂  That's why I try to avoid giving advice, because who the hell am I to do that ?!?  😂🤣😆  I crashed tapering Effexor more times than I can count.  I can ask questions, though.  

 

35 minutes ago, Catina7 said:

I appreciate you taking the time to give me your input @j1290.  You have given me some really good questions to think about...thank you!  🙂

Apologies for being so direct but I like you and friends will ask questions about blindspots I don't even realize I have, if you know what I mean.  It usually pisses me off but then I eventually come around 😆  You're one of the nicest people on this site, I'm really pulling for your success, however that looks.   ✌️

[2cats2272]

@j1290 I just did what the doctor ordered 🤣 150-0 in 3 months after being on it for 17 years 

[j1290]

1 minute ago, 2cats2272 said:

I just did what the doctor ordered 🤣 150-0 in 3 months after being on it for 17 years 

O. M. G.  Are you serious?!?  I'm going to go reply to your thread and sub so I don't clutter this up but wow my jaw just hit the ground.  The fact that you have windows and are able to function is such good news.  

[Catina7]

1 hour ago, 2cats2272 said:

@j1290 I just did what the doctor ordered 🤣 150-0 in 3 months after being on it for 17 years 

 

Whatttt????  😵‍💫   Really, though...it shouldn't be surprising at all!  

Edited August 31, 2023 by Catina7

[Catina7]

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

Apologies for being so direct but I like you and friends will ask questions about blindspots I don't even realize I have, if you know what I mean.  It usually pisses me off but then I eventually come around 😆  You're one of the nicest people on this site, I'm really pulling for your success, however that looks.   ✌️

 

Nope, no need to apologize.  I like it when people are to the point (why beat around the bush?)!  

 

Thank you for your kind words.  I feel the same about you.  I think we're all rooting for each other and it's nice to feel like we have each other's backs!  

[pinkfairy]

Hey lovely, just stopping by to say i think you're doing amazing and you've so got this 

xx

[Catina7]

14 minutes ago, pinkfairy said:

Hey lovely, just stopping by to say i think you're doing amazing and you've so got this 

xx

 

Thank you!  I'm managing the best I can.  I saw on your own thread that you plan to hold, and I think that's probably a wise idea for now. 

 

HUGS!

 

Catina 🌼

[Catina7]

I have been in a really intense wave since last night.  Today I actually completely lost it twice - complete sobbing fits and breakdowns.  I'm actually pretty scared right now as to what's going to happen to me during the rest of my journey off this poison.  I'm scared of not making it through this.  The worst part for me is the massive anxiety and adrenaline that I feel in my heart and body.  I don't know if tapering down is going to make it worse or not.  How many years am I going to have to suffer like this?  I keep trying to tell myself that this wave will eventually pass, but when you're in the thick of it you feel completely hopeless.

 

I really try to be strong for others and cheer them on, but today I feel knocked down a peg or two.  I hope tomorrow is better.  

[j1290]

Really sorry to hear that you're going through this, Catina7.  It's so not fair the suffering that we have to endure.  

40 minutes ago, Catina7 said:

I have been in a really intense wave since last night.  Today I actually completely lost it twice - complete sobbing fits and breakdowns.  I'm actually pretty scared right now as to what's going to happen to me during the rest of my journey off this poison.  I'm scared of not making it through this.  The worst part for me is the massive anxiety and adrenaline that I feel in my heart and body.

I go through stuff like this on the regular while tapering.  My mind always wants to go down the rabbit holes of despair because I'm completely convinced this will never end, despite all the evidence I have to the contrary.   It's terrifying.   

 

49 minutes ago, Catina7 said:

but when you're in the thick of it you feel completely hopeless.

Absolutely.  I even know that things will improve at the time, but the emotion is overpowering.   

 

51 minutes ago, Catina7 said:

How many years am I going to have to suffer like this?  

My personal conclusion was that after I started tapering Bupropion, something changed and the med never worked right again.  I held for 6+ months of windows and waves thinking that surely it would get back to stability, but it never did and the side effects were intolerable. I figured at least if I tapered through it I had a chance of feeling better, and slowly things did improve.   

 

Venlafaxine is terrifying to get off of.  I've never been so scared as when I reduced too much and had to reinstate.  I'd have to take a long time off to work my nerve up again to do another reduction.   

 

This wave really is temporary, it won't be forever.   Stay strong, you will get through this!

[Catina7]

@j1290 You are one of my rocks on here and... you rock!  Your comforting words of support mean so much.  

 

7 minutes ago, j1290 said:

after I started tapering Bupropion, something changed and the med never worked right again.  I held for 6+ months of windows and waves thinking that surely it would get back to stability, but it never did and the side effects were intolerable.

 

I feel like the same thing is happening with the Effexor.  Plus, I'm also on Trazodone.  Maybe the combo is now working against each other somehow?  It's hard to say for sure.

 

I think come January I'm going to "test the waters" and try tapering down very slowly using the BrassMonkey method.  At some point I have to make a move but it's petrifying!

 

Thanks again for everything!

 

Catina ❤️

[j1290]

2 minutes ago, Catina7 said:

You are one of my rocks on here and... you rock!  Your comforting words of support mean so much.  

Of course!  You are so kind to so many people here, when I see you post something I jump right to it.  

 

3 minutes ago, Catina7 said:

 

I feel like the same thing is happening with the Effexor.  Plus, I'm also on Trazodone.  Maybe the combo is now working against each other somehow?  It's hard to say for sure.

Trazodone is a new one on me.  I used to have a lot of questions about my medical situation, and the more I looked, the more I realized there are no clear answers.  I decided I'm going to get to zero and have faith that eventually I'll feel better, hopefully in a year or two(but really I want to be healed immediately 😄😬😁).  

 

10 minutes ago, Catina7 said:

I think come January I'm going to "test the waters" and try tapering down very slowly using the BrassMonkey method.

Seems like a good data collecting exercise.  You can always back up.  Brassmonkey helped me taper Effexor back in 2012, he's a brilliant guy.   Shits terrifying, but I only had to be brave the first day of a cut, then stubbornness would get me through most of the time😉.  I had to back up plenty though.  

 

16 minutes ago, Catina7 said:

At some point I have to make a move but it's petrifying!

Petrifying is the right term, because I'd turn into stone just thinking about making that next reduction.  😂 The Brassmonkey slide might just make this tolerable for you.  Only one way to find out, really.  

 

How's the anxiety going?  I usually get it either at around 3 am or when I wake up.  How does it hit you?  

[Fifree]

5 hours ago, Catina7 said:

I have been in a really intense wave since last night.

So sorry to read this @Catina7. It is so unfair - especially after such a long hold as you have had. It must be very discouraging. Can you think of anything that may have kicked off this wave? It can be the strangest little things sometimes.  I hope the wave is over soon and you are able to feel at a nice solid place to restart your taper. Hugs to you.

[Catina7]

9 hours ago, j1290 said:

How's the anxiety going?  I usually get it either at around 3 am or when I wake up.  How does it hit you? 

 

I'm constantly fighting the anxiety and an "activated" feeling; it never really "hits" me at certain times.  If I undergo stress then the anxiety gets much worse.    

[Catina7]

5 hours ago, Fifree said:

So sorry to read this @Catina7. It is so unfair - especially after such a long hold as you have had. It must be very discouraging. Can you think of anything that may have kicked off this wave? It can be the strangest little things sometimes.  I hope the wave is over soon and you are able to feel at a nice solid place to restart your taper. Hugs to you.

 

Aww thank you!  I underwent some stress and I think it triggered the wave.

 

Sending hugs back to you!  Thanks for taking your time to encourage me.

 

Catina 🙂

[FeralCatman]

2 hours ago, Catina7 said:

 

Aww thank you!  I underwent some stress and I think it triggered the wave.

 

Sending hugs back to you!  Thanks for taking your time to encourage me.

 

Catina 🙂

@Catina7 Sorry your're having trouble again. I think you hit the nail right on the head. Take on too much and the stress overwhelms you. I did the same thing to myself with physical stress a couple of months ago. It was a nasty wave but it passes. Last night I had the best nights sleep yet. 9 hours with 2 blocks of 3 hours within that. Just 2 weeks ago I would never have believed that this was right around the corner. Life changes on a dime. This will pass for you so hang on. 😉✌️😉😺

[Catina7]

6 minutes ago, FeralCatman said:

@Catina7 Sorry your're having trouble again. I think you hit the nail right on the head. Take on too much and the stress overwhelms you. I did the same thing to myself with physical stress a couple of months ago. It was a nasty wave but it passes. Last night I had the best nights sleep yet. 9 hours with 2 blocks of 3 hours within that. Just 2 weeks ago I would never have believed that this was right around the corner. Life changes on a dime. This will pass for you so hang on. 😉✌️😉😺

 

Thank you for your encouragement. 🙂

 

I'm so happy for you that your sleep has improved.  It's a sign of even more good things to come!