Jilla: severe PAWS

[Jilla]

First time on site. Looking for help. I went off my Paxil after 13 years waaaaaaay too fast and am now experiencing horrible PAWS symptoms. Panic, anxiety. My dr is treating it as a relapse, but never felt that was really what was going on. Last night I read about post acute withdrawal syndrome and knew I had discovered what I was experiencing. About 2 weeks ago my dr put me on Duloxitine. Still not helping. Does anyone have any suggestions on drs or clinic that might be able to help? Also, what about going back on a low dose of Paxil again. I am open to all suggestions!

thank you

[getofflex]

Hello, and welcome to SA.  We are a volunteer-run community of people who have been or are getting off of psychiatric drugs.  I'm glad you found us.  

 

On 5/7/2022 at 10:12 AM, Jilla said:

My dr is treating it as a relapse, but never felt that was really what was going on. Last night I read about post acute withdrawal syndrome and knew I had discovered what I was experiencing. About 2 weeks ago my dr put me on Duloxitine. Still not helping

So, so typical of what we see with doctors. They unfortunately get a lot of people on harmful and unnecessary drug carousels, because they are ignorant about withdrawal.  

 

Can you please give us specific information in your signature about your drug history for all drugs you are on and have been on, especially for the past 18-24 months?  It would be especially helpful to have the details of your drugs in a concise vertical list (no symptoms), only drug names, specific dates (as best you can say for example early March if you don't recall the day) and dosages of each medication decrease or increase.  Use this format:

 

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Drug name: date, dose, date, dose, date, dose…

Etcetera

 

Please read the link below for instructions.  This will allow us to give you the best guidance.  

 

How to List Drug History in Signature

 

Here is some important information about how these drugs actually work.  This explains why we get symptoms from going off of these medications, and why it's so important to taper slowly and carefully, and be very cautious about changing our doses: 

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

 

This helps you understand what withdrawal syndrome is: 

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Tapering is best done extremely slowly, and we generally taper by 10% of the current dose no more than once every 4 weeks, so that the reduction becomes exponentially smaller.

 

 Why Taper by 10% of my Dosage  

 

 

Here is a link with checklists of common WD symptoms: 

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen Withdrawal Symptom Checklists

 

 

Here are some techniques to cope with symptoms: 

 

Non Drug Ways to Cope with Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Stability is really important when we are tapering off psych meds.  Please read the link about stability:

 

Keep It Simple, Slow, and Stable

 

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but 2 that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

The best way to reduce symptoms from a fast taper is a very small reinstatement of the drug you were on. Going back on a small dose of your drug, which we call reinstatement, is best done very carefully.  This is temporary, and after stabilizing you would then taper gradually off of this.  There is some risk involved, and we need more specifics about your drug history before we can suggest a good dose at which to reinstate.  Here is some information about reinstatement.  

 

About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Reduce Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Also, you have the right to not take any drugs your doctor gives you.  Since you have only been on the duloxetine for 2 weeks, you could just go off cold turkey right now, and save yourself a major hassle tapering off it later, after your brain has become dependent upon it.  Is your intention to get off psychiatric meds altogether?  Duloxetine is an especially difficult drug to get off of, once you have become dependent on it.

 

 Doctor Shocked at Severe Cymbalta Withdrawal Symptoms

[Jilla]

Advice

 

I’ve attached my history on antidepressants and in particular the past couple of months. I was wondering if anyone has had success in getting out of PAWS by going back on the original antidepressant and then weaning off VERY slowly. Don’t know if that would help get me back on track faster or not. 
thanks!

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by ChessieCat
added intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[Jilla]

Advice for PAW

 

I am trying to decide whether to go back on my old antidepressant and then taper more slowly so as to eliminate the Debilitating PAW symptoms. Does anyone have any experience with this? And could you share your thoughts and what you did?
thanks!

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by ChessieCat
added intro topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

I have merged the 2 new Introduction topics you created with your original Introduction topic.  SA works differently to many other forums.  Each member has their own Intro topic which is where you ask questions specific to your own situation and journal your progress.  This keeps your history in one place and means that you do not need to repeat your story.  That is why there is only ONE introduction topic per member.

 

To post in your own topic, go to the bottom of the screen and click in the reply box.

[getofflex]

14 hours ago, Jilla said:

I am trying to decide whether to go back on my old antidepressant

Which antidepressant are you talking about? You've been on 3 of them.  From your drug sig, it looks as if you are still on all your antidepressants except for Lexapro, which was only added recently.  You said in your intro your doc put you on duloxetine 2 weeks ago, but your signature says you were on it longer than that.  It looks like you were only on Lexapro for a few weeks.  

 

I can see why you are having symptoms, as you've done a series of abrupt drug changes recently by jumping on and off Paxil and Cymbalta several times, doing fast tapers, then going on Lexapro, and quitting that.  It's good you quit Lexapro after being on it only a few weeks.  

 

If you read my links above, you can see why your nervous system would be destabilized, and you would be having symptoms of withdrawal.  

 

I'm confused, because it looks like you are still on your old antidepressants, yet you ask about going back on them.  Your drug sig indicates that you are still on Paxil 10 mg and Duloxetine 60 mg. 

 

 

 

 

[Jilla]

Yes, you are correct. I did start back on the Paxil a couple of days ago. I am hoping this relieves some of the acute wit symptoms. Just was wondering if this makes sense. My hope is that by going back on it my system will get back in balance. I think perhaps staying on it for several months and then doing micro withdrawals over a one year span. Not quite sure about the duloxitine, 60mg of that plus 20mg Paxil , yes, after doing some reading thought that was a better dose to go back onto, might be too high. Have a meeting with my Psychiatrist today to discuss that.

[Jilla]

PAWS rehab center

 

I’ve got a question. Has anyone found, or gone to, a treatment center for post acute withdrawal symptoms from antidepressants. I am having no luck finding one. Or even a doctor who does zoom calls that is knowledgeable about treating this.

thanks!

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic from media forum

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Jilla said:

PAWS rehab center

 

I’ve got a question. Has anyone found, or gone to, a treatment center for post acute withdrawal symptoms from antidepressants. I am having no luck finding one. Or even a doctor who does zoom calls that is knowledgeable about treating this.

thanks!

 

 

I'm sorry to say that it is highly unlikely that you will find one.  There seem to be very few medical professionals who understand psychiatric drugs.  Some members have gone to facilities to get off their drugs and have ended up in a worse state that when they went in.

 

inpatient-treatment-center-clinic-or-retreat-for-detox-rehab-recovery

 

alternative-to-meds-center-atmc-in-sedona-arizona

 

recommended-doctors-therapists-and-clinics

 

how-to-talk-to-a-doctor-about-tapering-and-withdrawal-what-to-expect

 

 

On 5/11/2022 at 1:08 AM, Jilla said:

I did start back on the Paxil a couple of days ago.

 

Please update your drug signature.  We need to be able to clearly and easily see your drug history so that we don't have to waste time reading back through posts to get the information.  Thank you.  This link goes straight to your own signature.  Remember to save.

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[Ariel]

9 hours ago, Jilla said:

I withdrew from Paxil way too fast and have been having horrible post acute withdrawals. I believe I am also histamine intolerant have been trying to follow a low histamine diet. When my PAW’s was misdiagnosed as a relapse, I was put of Duloxitine 60mg. That also messes with histamine.  Has anyone tapered off of an antidepressant while in the midst of withdrawals from another? Don’t know if this would be a good idea or bad idea. Thanks!

 

Hi Jilla,

I'm reposting this comment to your intro topic because you're asking a question specific to your own situation. 

[Jilla]

Muscle Weakness after eating

 

I have a question. It seems as if every time after I eat, I experience muscle weakness. Has this happened to anyone else? And if so, what might be the cause? Thanks! 

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[ChessieCat]

You might find it helpful to keep a food diary to see if it might be a particular food or type of food that is causing the weakness.

 

histamine-food-intolerance

 

eating-food-as-an-activating-factor-increasing-anxiety-or-symptoms

 

muscle-and-joint-stiffness-aches-pain-or-weakness

[Jilla]

4 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

You might find it helpful to keep a food diary to see if it might be a particular food or type of food that is causing the weakness.

 

histamine-food-intolerance

 

eating-food-as-an-activating-factor-increasing-anxiety-or-symptoms

 

muscle-and-joint-stiffness-aches-pain-or-weakness

 

[Jilla]

Xanax to relieve anxiety

 

Hi there! I spoke with my Psychiatrist today and he recommended taking Xanax regularly to help with my withdrawal symptoms and high anxiety. I’m hesitant to do this, but if it helps my nervous system and brain repair faster, maybe I should. My nervous system has really been effected by going off my Paxil too fast and just about everything is a stress to it.  Any thoughts? Has this I helped anyone get over the hump of withdrawal.  Anxious to hear your thoughts.

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by ChessieCat
added Intro topic title before merging with intro topic and moving from Off Topic

[Ariel]

Hi @Jilla

This is an important question for your specific situation, so I'm reposting it here in your intro topic.

 

40 minutes ago, Jilla said:

Hi there! I spoke with my Psychiatrist today and he recommended taking Xanax regularly to help with my withdrawal symptoms and high anxiety. I’m hesitant to do this, but if it helps my nervous system and brain repair faster, maybe I should. My nervous system has really been effected by going off my Paxil too fast and just about everything is a stress to it.  Any thoughts? Has this I helped anyone get over the hump of withdrawal.  Anxious to hear your thoughts.

 

I'm not a mod and cannot advise but will share my gut reaction. You are wise to hesitate. 

 

Xanax is a benzodiazepine and causes physical dependence even faster than ADs. If you decide to take a benzo regularly, when you are ready to stop it, it will have to be carefully tapered. If the benzo use is not properly managed, and if the tapering is not properly managed, one risks interdose withdrawals and benzo WD. 

 

I don't believe that taking Xanax or any other benzodiazepine or any other psych drug helps the "nervous system and brain repair faster". The only effect it could possibly achieve is maybe some temporary symptom relief, where the effects of the benzo would be masking WD symptoms, but there is no guarantee. Taking a benzo or any other drug or even supplements while in WD is a risky proposition, as our systems are highly sensitized and can have paradoxical reactions to just about any chemical substance introduced. 

 

There is no known treatment or cure for withdrawal syndrome. No known remedy helps the "nervous system and brain repair faster". SA advocates a harm reduction approach, i.e. trying to prevent things going awry if/when possible, and damage control if/when possible. Time is the best healer; along with keeping things simple, stable, and steady; eliminating alcohol, legal and illegal drugs, caffeine, sugar, stress, all supplements except possibly magnesium, fish oil, and melatonin.

 

There are just no quick fixes or shortcuts to withdrawal syndrome recovery. It's a very real, very challenging chronic iatrogenic condition that has serious, complex consequences for people, their lives, their families. That's why SA exists, and that's why Altostrata and the moderators work so hard to help us and change the world to prevent more people being harmed. 

 

You asked to hear our thoughts, these are mine. If I were you I would stay far away from Xanax and everything else except what you are currently tapering or wanting to come off.

 

All that being said I see that Xanax is listed in your drug signature, so maybe you're already taking it, along with hydroxyzine?

Please confer with the mods on this, if you haven't already. 

 

[Jilla]

On 7/3/2022 at 5:23 PM, ChessieCat said:

You might find it helpful to keep a food diary to see if it might be a particular food or type of food that is causing the weakness.

 

histamine-food-intolerance

 

eating-food-as-an-activating-factor-increasing-anxiety-or-symptoms

 

muscle-and-joint-stiffness-aches-pain-or-weakness

 

[Jilla]

Thanks ChessieCat. I think this is the case, I am so hypersensitive that even the act of eating is causing me stress. I know I have to eat, so trying to eat smaller meals. 

[Ariel]

Hi @Jilla

I've replied to you in your intro topic. 

[Jilla]

Yes, thank you. I am thinking I will continue to use it only on an emergency basis, as I have been l, and not regularly. I do take Hydroxyzine pretty much every night around 2:00am to help me fall back asleep. I feel my sleep is important and that seems to help. One of my main struggles now is eating. Eating seems to be too much of a stress on my system. I eat supper healthy and eat small meals, but am still reacting. Any suggestions? 

[Ariel]

@Jilla

 

Be careful with long-term hydroxyzine use in WD. Have you seen this topic?

 

In regards to eating and anxiety, it's possible that you are reacting to something you're eating. 

You might try an elimination diet to try to pinpoint whether there's any particular issue, e.g. histamine intolerance or individual foodstuffs. 

 

Another option could be intermittent fasting.

This has helped me a lot. I maintain a daily 16:8 schedule, more or less (16 hours fasting, 8 hour eating window). Sometimes 18:6.

It's very calming to my system. 

 

In WD our sympathetic nervous system is overly activated, leading to reactions such as anxiety and difficulty with eating and digestion. 

The parasympathetic nervous system is the "rest and digest" function. Intermittent fasting is said to support parasympathetic function and possible also facilitate neurogenesis. 

Ultimately though it's something worth trying to see how it feels. If it feels good, cool. If it doesn't feel good, drop it. 

 

 

[Jilla]

Thanks! Yes, I am on a very restrictive diet already with being histamine intolerant. I have also been in a gluten free diet, but I think Oats bother me as well….so will be eliminating those alone with eggs too…another suspect.  I have lost so much weight I will have to think about the intermittent fasting👍 Thanks for all of these helpful suggestions.

[ChessieCat]

@Jilla Your Introduction topic is the best place to ask questions specific to your situation.  I have moved the topic you created in the Off Topic forum and merged it here with your Intro.  This will keep your history in one place and mean you won't need to repeat your story.

 

5 hours ago, Jilla said:

I spoke with my Psychiatrist today and he recommended taking Xanax regularly to help with my withdrawal symptoms and high anxiety.

 

Even taking a benzo irregularly may cause dependency.

 

The biggest issue with a benzo is that it quickly loses it effectiveness but if you become dependent you will have to keep taking it to stop withdrawal, but get little/no benefit from it unless you increase the dose.

 

Another issue is that taking it on and off, you can end up with anxiety after it has worn off, and then you will want to take it again and therefore get "hooked" on it and then to get off it you will have to taper it.

 

Also, doctors may not allow you to stay on a benzo long term (for the length you need to taper it carefully) and stop prescribing it and then you may end up having to cold turkey it or do a very fast taper off.  This has happened to other SA members.

 

And another thing to consider is that the effect of taking psychiatric drugs (going on and off, different drugs, different doses) has a cumulative effect on your nervous system.  We have SA members who have gone on/off drugs and up/down in dose multiple times with no issues and then one day they do the same thing but it doesn't work the same way as it did before.

[Jilla]

Allergic reaction or WD symptom

 

This morning i had shortness of breath. For breakfast this morning I had rice, beets and cod. How do I know if this is an allergic reaction to something I ate or WD. It feels different, like maybe an allergic reaction. Thanks!

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[Ariel]

Hi @Jilla

You might try an elimination diet as a way to pinpoint whether there's any particular issue, e.g. histamine intolerance or individual foodstuffs. 

 

[Jilla]

Yes, I removed dairy and oatmeal a few

days ago, but did not remove fish as I thought I had not problem with it. This morning I think I might have reacted to the cod I ate. Is it common, do you know, for other food allergies to show themselves when cleaning up possibly  other offenders? The timing of possibly loosing fish comes at a peculiar time. Thanks!

[Greatful]

@Jilla

I am so sorry you are stuck in the what is causing what.  Nobody knows.  This whole thing is a guessing game.  Each one of us will react to things differently.

Somehow we all  come to a point of just stopping the what if's and roll with the punches.  Go to a simple diet, get rest, find distractions, learn all we can about these drugs and how they  work. ( this will empower you to be more in control with what's going on) how you can help yourself. panic is our worst enemy.

Well add in our thoughts too LOL Looks like you reinstated on a higher dose than what is recommended on SA with reinstatement. Did you read the link getofflex sent you?  You should put it in your signature the paxil and dosage.

I see the you panicked and started on the poly drug to stop the pain.  So common for us to do when we are in a panic,we  don't know what is happening to us and we just want the pain to stop.  You want the drugs to play nice with each other.  

have you done a drug interaction report?https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

 

I wish you would have just gone with the reinstatement of paxil, it make me want to cry, something similar happened to me too.  Please stay away from the Xanax. try magnesium, learn now drugging coping skills.  

 

Have you had a chance to look around SA for more information to learn from?  Immerse yourself in learning and educating yourself.

There a few other places that are helpful also

https://www.theinnercompass.org/

https://withdrawal.theinnercompass.org/page/about-withdrawal-project

https://mccare.org/  this one is Baylissa Frederick's website

 

Hang in there Jilla🌞

 

 

[Jilla]

Thank you grateful. I wish they had not put me on Duloxitine too. I am thinking of starting a very slow taper of 2-5% a month and see how it goes. The good thing is that I have not been on it for very long. Any thoughts?

[Greatful]

@Jilla

How long have you been on it?  You could ask a mod. 

 

I am just so mad that I stayed on the lexapro when I had only been on it a little over 5 weeks and  knew I was going to get off of it. so i tapered fast to 5mg in week and held and now I am stuck tapering  off it.  I wish I would have just stopped it at the 5 weeks. Sadly it never helped with my WD.  I was a total mess anyway, A fast taper would have been the way to go , easy to think that way now LOL 

Really I can't stress it enough to stop using the Xanax before you are stuck on it.  

 

This is going to require the utmost strength and perseverance that you can muster up. Do not plain on a quick fix, don't get me wrong never stop hoping for a fast recovery, we all heal at our on pace, are brains will do what needs doing, but if it gets uncomfortable or it takes longer then you want (and believe me we all want a fast recovery) you have to be prepared on how you are going to keep moving forward.  Educate yourself, learn about yourself,  find your support network, learn good coping skills, and find the most stubborn bone in your body to stay the course.   That being said, it's okay to have meltdowns and feel lost sometimes, that's norma, never beat yourself up, have what you need in place to pull you back out of any spirals.

 

The members and mods on  SA are here  for anything you need, a listening ear, validation, advice, encouragement🌞

  

 

 

 

[Jilla]

I started the Duloxitine on April 21st, so about 2 and a half months ago. I’m thinking I might start a slow withdrawal,  5% first month and see what happens. As for the Xanax, I have maybe taken 1 a month for the last two months. I am very careful about only taking those when I am desperate.👍 Thanks for the encouragement.

[ChessieCat]

SA likes to keep similar information in one place.  Before creating a new topic please do a search to see if one already exists.

 

I have moved your topic to the existing topic:

 

early-morning-waking-managing-the-morning-cortisol-spike

 

[ChessieCat]

On 7/13/2022 at 10:51 AM, ChessieCat said:

SA likes to keep similar information in one place.  Before creating a new topic please do a search to see if one already exists.

 

 

Please stop making a new post for each new thing you want to ask about.  There are many existing topics on SA where members discuss various things.  Please search to see what topics there already are.  You might even find that other members have posted something which answers your question.

 

digestive-problems-nausea-diarrhoea-bloating-gerd

 

intravenous-supplements

 

[ChessieCat]

And you can always browse through the topics in this forum to see what is already there.

 

Symptoms and self-care

[Jilla]

15 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Please stop making a new post for each new thing you want to ask about.  There are many existing topics on SA where members discuss various things.  Please search to see what topics there already are.  You might even find that other members have posted something which answers your question.

 

digestive-problems-nausea-diarrhoea-bloating-gerd

 

intravenous-supplements

 

So sorry! 

[Jilla]

I have a couple of questions.

First, what are some recommendations for scales. I tried to taper my 50mg Trazadone pill by 5% and I think it was actually more like 7-8%.

Next, I went off Paxil cold turkey 6 months ago, had debilitating withdrawals, but in the last month have been having much better days, so I decided to try to go down on

my Trazadone (as I mentioned above.) However, on day 3 my withdrawal symptoms got worse, and now, on day 6, they have become very bad again. How long do these withdrawals from tapers last? Or do you think I am just too sensitized yet from the Paxil to make any changes at this time and should I go back to the 50mg of Trazadone?

Anxious to get your thoughts.

[ChessieCat]

I've moved your post to your Intro topic which keeps your history in one place.  Your post is mainly about your own situation.

 

1 hour ago, Jilla said:

what are some recommendations for scales.

 

Many members use the Gemini 20 scale or one that is very similar.

 

Here is the link to the search results for Gemini  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=gemini

 

in this topic:  using-a-scale-to-weigh-and-measure-doses

[Jilla]

I don’t have Covid🤪. I am thinking about going back up to 50mg of Trazadone as I think I’m not ready yet to taper off any meds as I am still recovering from Paxil withdrawal cold turkey the past 6 months. I tried tapering 5-7% for the past 6 days off my Trazadone and have had bad withdrawal symptoms for 5 of those. Too much too soon I think. Just so anxious to get off all of these meds. Your thoughts?