Jaffa: Possibly late onset withdrawal

[Jaffa]

Thankyou ,

Im feeling completely hopeless. Yes I’m in crisis. When you feel this bad it is a crisis. I’ve tried to read success stories but they trigger me. I cannot do two years of this or more. I’m struggling with 2 months. I’m feeling like I’m literally dying here. I’m still on 25 mg of Zoloft and cannot fathom every tapering completely off. Yesterday the darkness of depression hit and I cried and cried. The pain of emotions in my body was so acute. Alongside that anxiety simmering away. How on earth do others endure such suffering. 

[AprilShowers]

I've been asking myself similar questions lately Jaffa. I think it's not about how we get through the next two years but how we get through today.. this next two minutes, the next two hours. That's how I've done it so far, though when I look back I don't know how. Can you soothe your suffering now somehow even just a little, can you distract yourself from it? It's normal to cry but can you also soothe your emotions in some way? I come here to this forum sometimes because when I'm losing hope there are people who at least share and understand our pain. I think that helps. I really hope something improves for you soon. 

[Jaffa]

Yes I’ve been doing that everyday every hour but I’m just getting worn down. This last two days depression hit first time. Up until now I have been numb or highly anxious with the burning and tingles. Absolutely no appetite so force feeding myself nutritious food but still losing weight. The nerves are on full power burning the fuel fast. I just don’t think I can keep doing this

[Jaffa]

Notes 19/07

slept 11-4am then anxiety, twitching, rocking due to agitation 

6-8 am in bed texting, worrying, anxious 

8:30am Zoloft 25 mg

10 am estrogel .75 mg

10:30 vit d, b complex, fish oil, breakfast 

12 - awful symptoms all morning- anxiety and feeling low, tingling, cut off

1 pm lunch 

afternoon depression arrived first time 

full blown emotional pain and crying all afternoon, physically painful emotional pain , tingling and anxiety there also 

feeling hopeless and exhausted 

4 pm visited a friend and more crying 

6:30 dinner, bath

7:30 - 10 mildly better but teary. 
100 mg progesterone, 2 mg circadin

woke 3 am in pain emotionally 

4 am took 10 mg of temazepam 

6:30 awake and very low

 

 

[Happy2Heal]

3 minutes ago, Jaffa said:

4 am took 10 mg of temazepam 

On 7/1/2023 at 4:10 AM, Jaffa said:

Im less hyper alert today because I used temazepam 10 mg last night at 3pm because I was in a state of unbearable suffering. I hardly use temaz and if I do its always 10mg. 

 

 

Hi again Jaffa,

sorry you've hit another little rough patch. 
I totally understand wanting to find a drug or supplement or something to take to make this all go away.

When I first came to this site, I was constantly looking for something to "fix" me and make the symptoms stop

 

I tried several different things, AGAINST the excellent advice I got here from Alto and the Mods.'

They seldom worked and even if I got a tiny bit of relief, it was short lived AND I payed for it later with an increase in symptoms

 

Your signature goes up to June where you mention taking temazepam infrequently, but since the first of July, you've taken it at least twice.

I'm not criticizing you or anything like that- believe me, I have gone thru what you are going thru, most of us have!! and i understand

 

but I want to tell you that you that you will be better off if you don't take those type of drugs at all.

 

 

I read thru your thread.... I am so sorry for all that you are going thru. I read about your mom, how sad. You have a lot of reasons to feel bad. You def show the symptoms pattern for withdrawal (mornings tend to be the worst, the day gradually gets better til evening then dread about the night time and being able to sleep ramp up sometimes)

but you also have a lot of other life events and the like to deal with

 

Do you get any kind of counseling for those things? is there someone you can talk to about your challenges in daily life and your mom and what not?

not the drugs, or withdrawal, because really only those who have gone thru this understand but just to get some support for all the other stuff?

 

whether you stay on a lower dose of zoloft or eventually get off it completely, you will always face life challenges and sometimes it's nice to have someone to discuss that stuff with

 

Just putting this out there as a suggestion. You know your life and situation better than anyone else.

 

You are going to be ok. 
The symptoms that come with withdrawal often include the thoughts that things will always be this bad but that is NOT TRUE

You will get better, the human body and mind is amazing in it's ability to heal itself

 

sometimes all we need to do is get out of it's way and let it.

 

what good thing did you do for yourself today?

❤️

 

[Jaffa]

Happy to heal,

Im not coping anymore. Along with the anxiety is the arrival of severe depression. I’m in physical pain from the sheer agony. I can’t believe you have all felt this and survived it. It’s traumatic to say the least. I’m burning up just tying this. I feel like I can’t do it. I’m not as strong as you all are. I’m dying. I feel like I’m dying. I wish some one would just shoot me. I’m thinking of trying mirtrazipine tonight. I’m so sorry friend. 😢😢

[Jaffa]

I’m so scared

[Jaffa]

Just spoke to an awful psychiatrist on the phone. He recommends zyprexa 2.5 to help me. He was awful . He was annoyed with me for not taking his advice earlier. He said I have a sensitised brain and he doesn’t know what will fix it but if I try anything to go low . I’m terrified and lost. How did you get through this . I can’t believe others have felt this bad and survived it. It’s excruciating and so lonely and I take my husband children and friends through it too. Tell me please - how you did this? Did you lose weight? Did you have agitated depression? Did you sleep 🙏🏻💕

[Happy2Heal]

3 hours ago, Jaffa said:

Tell me please - how you did this? Did you lose weight? Did you have agitated depression? Did you sleep

yes this is rough but yes we have all been thru it, and survived. you have to know that this is just temporary and there is a good life when it's over.

 

I lost roughly 50 lbs in a very short period of time. Early on in WD/recovery I had severe nausea and couldn't eat anything without throwing up right afterwards so for a while I ate only very small meals. This didn't last too long, thankfully. maybe 3 mos? At the same time I would be awake around the clock with NO sleep at all for days. Actually I have read that sleep is a primary drive and that your brain and body will just shut down and sleep even if you are not aware of it. I went from this to only sleeping 20 mins at a time.. waking up in a panic and needing to get up and move. Even though I couldn't eat much I felt I needed to keep moving to burn off the anxiety and nervousness so I kept losing more weight, I had temperature dysregulation, I would go from very hot to very cold and back again. I would be shivering with chattering teeth one moment and sweating just a short time later. at night the sweat just poured off of me.

 

there is more, much more (I had at least 30 symptoms all of them severe - AT FIRST)  If you read thru the threads here, you will see that your symptoms are very very common.

They also often (but not always) follow a similar pattern

You seem to be cycling thru the symptoms pretty fast and your insomnia is milder than many others, I know it doesn't feel like it to you now, but your healing is going much faster than most.

 

We have been trying to tell you that adding supplements and taking other drugs off and on the way you have been doing is NOT helping you.

You may get temporary relief BUT you may not. Even if you do, the price you pay may not be worth it, as you are destabilizing your nervous system.

 

You have gone up and down in your doses of zoloft many times, The brain does not like this up and down and stop and start, It likes things to stay the same.

Once you've done this too many times , you can start to have paradoxical reactions to things. Drugs that normally cause sleepiness will instead make you anxious and give you insomnia.

Also, a side effect of all the sleep inducing meds IS depression. so even if they help you sleep, you are going to have to deal with the depressed feelings they can bring.

 

you have recently taken your sleep med and also kava, and  not long before that, you were trying other herbs and the like.

 

 

your brain is telling you to STOP doing this, Just stick to one dose of zoloft and don't change it, Don't add anything. don't keep taking the sleep meds or different supplements.

 

your brain is working hard to heal. I know it doesn't feel like it but it is.

 

you can do whatever you want, you can ignore the advice on this forum if you choose to but you will only be hurting yourself.

 

we are not kidding about keeping things simple, going slow and keeping this steady. this means don't keep changing things!!

 

you have the strength to get thru this.

 

You didn't answer my question about counseling. is there someone you can talk to?

 do you have a supportive family or friends?

 

I know it is hard to believe but if you read thru the success stories you will see that we all went thru what you did, in one form or another, and got thru it,

You need patience and you need to work hard to calm yourself

 

no catastrophizing. no telling yourself you can't do it, of course you can, you have done it before!! do you want to go thru it, no of course not, none of us did

but once you realize that you are in WD/recovery, you need to focus all your energy on taking good care of yourself and you WILL HEAL

 

healing is the rule not the exception. I don't know of anyone who did not heal eventually when they stopped making changes to the drugs and supplements etc that they were ingesting.

people get thru this by adopting a positive attitude,  Even when you don't feel like it, even when you don't really believe it, you need to tell yourself that you are GOING TO GET THRU THIS

 

the things we tell ourselves are VERY POWERFUL. if you keep telling yourself that you can't do this, guess what? you will likely make that prediction come true! you have no reason to see that you are already healing when you are focused on how bad you feel and believe that this will never end. 

 

you keep starting to improve and then you have a rough day or night and you reach for a pill to try to stop the bad feelings, it won't work, it can't work, it will only make your healing take longer.

 

I have a challenge for you, each day, look for something that is good or even just neutral, write it down

 

when you have a good patch, when you feel like your mood has lightened a bit, soak that in, and enjoy it and those feelings will come back sooner

this is scientifically proven. there are books written about it

 

if you keep focusing on how bad things are, you will miss that things are already getting better

 

I too was very scared early on, I felt like my thoughts and feelings were in control, I didn't understand how to ignore the feelings that are caused by the brain doing its' work to heal itself, I eventually learned to just accept that I was probably going to feel crappy for some time and worked on learning acceptance and learning how to float above it all. or to surf the waves, or however you imagine it

 

By the way, I was given a tiny dose of zyprexa that I thought would help me when I was unable to sleep and had intrusive thoughts of doom and gloom

The first dose of zyprexa relaxed me for maybe 2 hrs. The dose after that did the opposite, it went paradoxical. I had severe panic and a feeling of deep despair and hopelessness.

These feelings went away WHEN I STOPPED TRYING TO FIND  A  DRUG TO FIX THEM

 

I had been up and down and on and off all kinds of pysch meds for over 4 decades!!! so it's not really surprising that these things were happening, My poor brain was so confused!

but NOW it's all totally healed and I am living a really good life

 

You will heal too, if you stop making changes and be patient and let your brain do what it needs to do.

 

it may not feel very good but these are just feelings- they are not dangerous, they just feel awful, they can't really hurt us. feeling anxious and depressed is not fun but it's our Thoughts about these feelings that cause us problems, not the feelings themselves

 

you are going to heal, Thousands and thousands of us have been thru this, we believe you when you say how bad you feel, because we have been there too

and we know you can get thru this!

 

I Hope you are sleeping well and wake up to a good day, a better day than yesterday. Look back thru your own thread, you will see you had some better days or hours 

Those will increase as time goes on

they really will

🌞

 

[Jaffa]

Thankyou  Happy2heal

this is a long thoughtful post and I’m grateful. I don’t have a counsellor. I’m too overwhelmed and wouldn’t really know what to say. I was was fine before this started. I’m in shock you see. I just never thought this would happen to me again. Also this is the first time I’ve NOT reinstated a drug when withdrawal hit. It’s new territory and it was completely unplanned. 
We are all different. I’m trying very hard believe me. I’m just very frightened. I don’t have family support- not really because they are all miles away. How do you cope with the loneliness of this? I live in my own head of troubles and panic. I’m so sorry to be so negative and I must be draining everyone . I’m considering all that you’ve said here. 
Thankyou 💕

[Jaffa]

Sorry, just a question.

Im taking 2 mg of melatonin at night to sleep 

vit b complex now cause others in posts suggest it’s good along with fish oil. Vit d and magnesium baths 
are these ok? 
the others I’ve stopped

 

do you think I should take none of the above?

[Happy2Heal]

I'm sorry you are going thru this

 

it will get better 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Happy2Heal

[Jaffa]

Thankyou so much. I’ve been talking with my husband tonight about it all. I’ve always been a go with the flow kind of fence sitter if that makes sense. I’ve never felt very sure of myself but often confident in many other respects. Life is full of shades of grey for me and I meander through it unsure and often loving not knowing, open to the wonder of it all. In this predicament however , it’s not working well. I don’t have a good track record with coping with anxiety pre medication. I had panic attacks in my teens and avoided things that brought them on. I didn’t therefore go to university and follow my interests there. Instead I travelled a lot and was a free spirit. 
This drug journey started with my first child. I don’t know happy2heal if I will not end up trying mirtazipine. In your case you did try things and it was them not working that brought you to this freedom. That sounds like it must have been horrific and I admire you - truly. 
I just find it hard to be thrown out again in this after such a stable happy patch and there’s my children and my mum . That said, maybe I can get through this with the right mindset. I need to work on that. I need to read the support articles here and learn to navigate the site a bit better when I’m feeling up to it. When I need support in a wave I need to reach out with the right language. It’s so wrong that we do this all via internet. I wish there was a safe house where we could meet others who get it and give each other face to face support. 
Thankyou so much

To bed now come what may

[Jaffa]

Hi everyone,

Im 8 weeks into withdrawal and it’s dreadful as you all know. I’m sending out love and courage to everyone here. 
Quick question 

Ive been taking my 25 mg of Zoloft at 8:30 am everyday. I’d like to shift it to 7:30 am because it’s more convenient for several reasons. 
Is this a bad idea while in withdrawal? 
 

[Jaffa]

Thursday 19/7

slept 11pm- 4 pm- then anxiety, twitching, rocking till 6 am

6 am in bed texting worrying anxious 

8:30 25 mg Zoloft 

10 am estrogel 0.75 mg

10:30 vit d, b complex, fish oil

breakfast

12 pm awful symptoms all morning, anxiety, very low, tingling skin. Cut off

12-5 pm - continued like this all day and became depression, teary, anxious 

6-9 depression lifted slightly, anxiety stayed, spinning thoughts

10 pm 100 mg progesterone, 2 Panadol 

10:30 2 mg melatonin 

[Happy2Heal]

On 7/15/2023 at 1:10 AM, Jaffa said:

8-10 pm symptoms are ok ish but very quickly upped by fearful thoughts about ever being ok, my husband going away on conference and he and kids going to Japan in September and me being alone. Normally I’d relish that but not now. Terrifying

 

This is what we've been trying to tell you Jaffa- your symptoms are being ramped up BY your FEARFUL thoughts

 

you are also, understandably, angry and upset and confused by the symptom pattern and the fact that these drugs that are supposed to help us, can be SO incredibly difficult to get off of

You're angry that your life has been disrupted. Of course you are! we all have been there, it's maddening that this happened to us

 

it's upsetting that you start to feel better and things go back to being not so good

 

but in real life, that is what normally happens- we have good times and we have times that are unpleasant and everything in between

 

withdrawal just sort of magnifies those ups and downs and adds all the symptoms related to our brains trying to get back on even keel

 

the BEST way to help your brain settle down is to STOP taking extra drugs, supplements etc 

and to STOP letting your fearful thoughts add to your distress

 

I KNOW this is hard, believe me, we all know it is hard. You also have a lot of real life things going on, a family to care for, a mom who is ill, and all of that. 

let me say, I admire that you're continuing to do all of those things while going thru this, that is not easy

Some of us became so disabled during withdrawal we needed full time care ourselves. (not me mind you, but if you read thru the stories you'll see some folks had some rough times- and those are stories in the SUCCESS forum, ok? so even as rough as they had it, they HEALED! you will TOO!)

 

please for YOUR sake, try to focus on what you can do, and not what you've lost nor what you are afriad of

 

we all fear the future in some way, I still do, even though I should know better.

 

but our thoughts heavily influence how we feel as you yourself noticed

 

so if you can calm your thoughts, you are going to feel SO much better.

 

you will not likely feel good all day every day but no one does, number one!

and number two, yes that is the waves and windows pattern of recovery and it sucks 
BUT watch for the WINDOWS

 

 

you have already had several good ones! not all day but it's early on, those WILL come

 

you will keep getting better and better

 

give your brain and body a rest and just focus on what you are doing well, you are keeping up with chores, you are gardening, you go to the Gym (please be careful with that, too much exercise and esp doing so later in the day can interfere with sleep for many of us)

you talk with friends, even if they don't get it, you're still able to do that, and you are taking care of a family and all that is involved with that, and that is a LOT

 

you are doing a great job!

you really are!

 

you are going to get thru this

I know you don't want to go thru it, I know it is UNFAIR that you went thru it before and now here you are again going thru it, but at least without the akathisia, so that's great!

 

it's ok to feel the grief and sadness and anger and confusion and some measure of anxiety about the future but don't let the fear take over, don't let the sadness take over

 

remind yourself that ALL feelings are TEMPORARY and are replaced with new different ones rather quickly

don't give them too much weight when they are they, just tell yourself

I am going thru a rough patch RIGHT NOW

 

leave open the idea that you will not be in this place in the next few minutes, or hours or days-

that you will be in a different place because that is what truly happens

 

you just have to watch out for the good things

 

 

it's normal when we are upset to think back over all the other times we were upset, our mind plays tricks on us and strings them all together as if there was no break

as if there wasn't any good times or just calm normal times, in the middle of those things

 

but there ALWAYS is

you just have to look for them

 

or at the very least, remember that when things are rough, they WILL get better

 

it's a tall order to do this when you are feeling so crummy but I know you can do it

 

you have already had the courage to admit that there were a few windows there when things were not quite as bad

 

you will have many more of those in the days to come

 

Please tell yourself how strong you are because this is TRUE

you have PROVEN it

because you got thru that horrible akathisia in the past

 

you have gotten thru childbirth, not easy! and likely many other hard times that only your know about

and you are still here and you are connecting with us

and while we are just connected thru the internet we are really concerned about you and want you to get thru this with the least amount of problems possible

 

otherwise why would we be here?

I had a LOT of help getting to recovery and I want to try to repay that by helping others

 

sooner than you think, you'll be on the other side, glad that you pushed thru and enjoying your life and your family and all your hobbies etc

 

hang in there kiddo and keep reminding yourself YOU GOT THIS
you are strong

you are a warrior already 

 

you are going to be ok

💞

Edited July 21, 2023 by Happy2Heal
typos

[Jaffa]

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻❤️

Thankyou friend. Today I made soup. My sister came over for lunch and a walk. It was a hard day with anxiety ranging from 6-8 right up until 9 pm. I had some moments where I felt engaged with my sister in conversation. That was my moment of feeling better. Not taking anymore supplements other than those I mentioned yesterday vit d, b complex, fish oil and magnesium bath and electrolyte drink . I’ve lost so much weight so I think the sustenance is important . I’m a bit worried about continually using melatonin. Hope that’s ok 2 mg sustained release. Thankyou so much for your support. You are amazing. I’m truly grateful 

[Happy2Heal]

I'm glad you were able to spend some time with your sister.

and you made soup! how industrious of you! 
I remember in early withdrawal my brain was mush- I could barely open a can of soup, making some myself would not have been possible. lol

 

I don't know if melatonin is a problem or not. I tried it and it didn't help me at all... the thing that helped me the most was going out and getting morning sun, that helps to set your biological clock.

I had read something about melatonin years ago, there was some concern that taking large doses of melatonin might cause your body to stop making it's own. I don't know if they were ever able to establish that this was a problem though. And I think it applied mainly to high doses. 

2 mgs time released is not a big dose and if you've been taking it all along, it's probably best not to stop it abruptly.

but others probably know a lot more about it than I do.

 

 

[Jaffa]

The long term research on melatonin hasn’t been done, that’s the problem. For some reason, in Australia, they recommend only taking it if your over 55 and only for 3 weeks it says on box. That said I just don’t know if I can not take it because it does put me to sleep. It’s 4 am here now. I woke at 3 . I woke also earlier in the night and took some paracetamol x2 which helps with the pain in my body and can lull me back to sleep. 
I haven’t had brain mush. My symptoms are such that I need to keep moving, keep doing, concentrate on something no matter how exhausted. I’m hyperactive. This is why when I updose Zoloft in past I got unbearable Akathisia. It ramped up tenfold what I was already feeling. 
 

I reread your earlier post. I suffer a lot from anticipatory anxiety. It’s really hard to control that or manage the racing or spiraling thoughts that arise out of this withdrawal anxiety. I do try. I meditate when I can. Very hard to stay positive. All the things I do in the day are to fill in time and distract from my symptoms- that’s all. I used to work . I used to have a nice snooze on the sofa in the afternoon. Now it’s just relentless doing to burn off the anxiety and alertness. I’m patting myself in the back for making it through the day but it’s very very hard not too worry about all this. The sleep deprivation, the constant repetitive pain day after day. Yes there are some moments of relative ok but it doesn’t feel like I’m healing and it concerns me that this will continue and I’ll get worse. Sorry. I know that’s bad self talk but it’s a real worry. How did you get over your trauma once you got better 

[Jaffa]

6 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

it's ok to feel the grief and sadness and anger and confusion and some measure of anxiety about the future but don't let the fear take over, don't let the sadness take over

My mantra for today 

[Happy2Heal]

1 hour ago, Jaffa said:

Yes there are some moments of relative ok but it doesn’t feel like I’m healing and it concerns me that this will continue and I’ll get worse. Sorry. I know that’s bad self talk but it’s a real worry.

can worrying about what MIGHT happen change what happens?

 

there's nothing to apologize, if you want to use what you call "bad self talk" that's your choice to do so. I was just trying to suggest that you might feel better if you focused instead on what was going well. but it's entirely your choice

 

you could get worse, or you could just as easily get better quite quickly and be fine. no one knows for sure

 

maybe experiment with thinking, things are getting better all the time, soon I will be feeling good for more time and this will all be a bad memory

vs this is bad and it's never going to get better 

vs this can only get worse, oh dear then what?

 

just as a game, try doing that. In fact I like this idea so much I am going to put this very thing on my fridge because I have recently forgotten all that I learned going thru WD recovery and this is very much something I personally need to work on! a LOT 🤪 😆

 

what good does it do you to keep thinking  "oh I may get worse?" 

if it's not happened, why borrow trouble that doesn't exist?

I say that to myself all the time, "Hope, don't borrow trouble!!"

🤔😐🙄😂

 

1 hour ago, Jaffa said:

How did you get over your trauma once you got better 

I don't know what trauma you mean? I have PTSD from all forms of abuse  including rape, incest, physical and emotional and psychological abuse, domestic assault, and am the survivor of several violent crimes that don't fall under child abuse or domestic abuse.

 

or Do you mean the trauma of withdrawal? I recovered fully from going off the psych drugs, even though I didn't do a slow taper and messed up a LOT along the way. I am fully recovered.

 

I thought the memory of how awful things were would never leave me but in time, it has. 

I too was super hyperactive, had to keep moving at all times, couldn't rest, needed to stay busy and was very agitated when I was confined, like on a bus,  I wanted to move. I guess it might have been a mild form of akathisia, I don't know.

 

how did I get over all of those things? I don't know if you ever "get over" trauma. It stays in your body, it seems.

I have gotten PAST it all, because for one thing, what other choice do I have?

I could decide to be miserable and hate everyone and hate  my life and my fate but that does no one any good, most especially it does myself no good.

 

I was extremely socially isolated for at least 3 decades of my life, while being heavily medicated. 
While getting off those drugs, I started making a new life for myself- I could not tolerate being alone, so I joined the Sr Center and I volunteered and I made friends and I now have a WONDERFUL life

so full of good people and fun things to do and I love it.

I was suicidal during my withdrawal. I hadn't slept in many months, not more than a few hours at a time. Like you, I had lost a lot of weight. I was having troubling thoughts of doom and gloom and despair and it literally felt like my brain was telling me that I needed to die, that I was going to die and that it was going to be horrific. I imagined jumping out of windows or forcing a cop to kill me... horrible horrible things. I KNEW that this was symptom of withdrawal but even so, it was so awful I was afraid that I would do something rash and someone would have to tell my beloved daughter that I had left her all alone in the world. She has no father or siblings. I couldn't bear the thought of her having to hear that news so I went to the ER and I told them that I did not want  to die, but I was afraid that I might not be able to stop myself. I begged them to give me a tiny dose of zyprexa because that is what helped me the other times I had been unable to sleep and was having horrific intrusive thoughts brought on by going off the lexapro too quickly (on the drs advice)
they did agree to give me a few low dose zyprexa

 

I was so afraid that taking a full one, even of the tiny dose that they gave me, might make things worse, that I cut the pill into quarters and I think I  even may have cut one of those in half, I can't recall but in any case I took a TEENY TINY dose

 

in about a half an hour I felt my body relax somewhat. 

that lasted maybe an hour or so, under 2 hrs.

I took another tiny bit and it had some effect but not as strong as the first tiny bit.

So I took another tiny bit and it did NOTHING.

 

a few hours later it was morning and I didn't feel any better and I still hadn't gotten any sleep. I had not been depressed before taking the zyprexa, I had horrible thoughts and was afraid of them, they seemed so real, and I wanted them to stop but I was NOT depressed or sad. After the zyprexa I was depressed and felt hopeless.

 

I recently heard somewhere that the antipsychotics deplete? that's not the right word but I cant' think of what is- they affect dopamine in your brain. they literally make you unmotivated, they take away that good feeling that drives people to do things, essentially; they cause you to be deeply depressed. as I understand it, anyway. I may not be saying this the exact correct way though.  but  that has certainly been my experience wiht those types of drugs. So I am now terrified of them but I did not know this back then.

 

anyway when I realized that a drug I had depended on didn't help but instead made me feel worse, 

I knew that I had to accept that I was in a bad place and find a way to get thru it.

 

 

in my head I literally heard a tiny voice telling me that everything I needed to get thru this was already inside me.

I must have heard something similar in a movie or something but I decided to trust that tiny voice.

 

 

I started feverishly looking for ways to get thru the difficult times. I knew for sure that there was no pill that was going to save me at that point, it was up to me to find ways to manage.

I knew it was "doable" because I'd read so many of the stories on this site and saw that others had been thru the same or worse and they made it. I wasn't special, I could make it thru too. I had already lived thru some rough stuff, this was just one more rough thing to triumph over.

 

It was always worse in the morning so I would get up and get dressed and get out in the sun. I didn't feel a whole lot better but I was doing things and not dwelling on how awful I felt and I am so glad I did that!
because now when I look back over that time, I have photos of things I did, and I don't recall that I was feeling awful, I just see that I was still living my life and getting out and meeting people and learning new things. It was hard, oh very hard but it was better than any of the alternatives for sure.

 

 

 this may sound absolutely absurd to you, but I am now so relaxed that I actually MISS the anxiety that pushed me to get out of my comfort zone. I miss the energy it gave me.

I can relax now and not do anything unless I Push myself. back during WD recovery I didn't need to motivate myself, the restless energy I had was all I needed,

I had to burn it up. Now I am having to really push myself to move, I am starting to get fat and lazy!!

 

so there are always different perspectives to things.

I learned this early on  but it is a hard lesson to learn and remember

 

we have a choice about how we look at things and how we think about them

I save a fortune from a cookie that I love that says "we are what we think"

 

this is so so true. I decided to be almost Pollyanna in my effort to think myself into a positive mindset.

It didn't always work out but it was my goal. I still can fall into a trap of self pity or worry excessively about what MIGHT happen, anyone can fall into that trap, it's easy.

 

we have to keep reminding ourselves that we have that choice about what to do with the situation we are in right now

 

If we can change it, great! if it looks like maybe we can't do so much to change it, we work on what we can change.

and like that Serenity prayer, we learn to accept what we can't change.

 

so that's probably TMI sorry but you have asked a question that is relevant to me these days

as I recently fell into a pity pot of a sorts and realize in retrospect that I wasted a lot of time and energy bemoaning my fate and worrying about how much worse things could get  ( this is in regards to some physical issues I have that may need surgery- or maybe not! when I stopped thinking I was doomed and had to  have the surgery, my mind was free to explore other options and I have found a few things that may help me avoid that surgery! yesss!!)

 

so anyway sorry for the long post. 

 

I hope you have a better day.

I know that you will heal, even if you don't know it yet or believe it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Happy2Heal

[Happy2Heal]

1 hour ago, Jaffa said:

My mantra for today 

you can do it  😊

 

or if you're having an especially hard day, it's quite alright to throw yourself a pity party

 

those can actually help you feel better.

a fun thing to do is to go over the top with it, and then you start to feel silly....

not that there is anything silly about this, there isn't 

but if you really go all out in your efforts to emphasize how bad things are, it can have a funny effect

I did this a few times, once by myself and one time with a few friends

 

both times it turned out to be, dare I say it? kind of fun

 

yes I cried a lot but I also felt better afterwards

 

kinda cleared the air I guess?

 

 

BTW I want your recipe for that low sugar chocolate cake!

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by Happy2Heal

[Happy2Heal]

Just popping in to say hi and that i'm thinking of you

I hope I didn't overwhelm you with TMI 

if so I am very sorry

 

I found a success story that might give you hope and courage, I am going to link you to it and also quote a bit of it here if that's ok,  emphasis is mine. (by that I mean the bolded sections)
this guy writes really well and says a lot of the things I am trying to convey but feel I am falling short on:

 

Quote

Despite posting this success story, I'm not going anywhere really. I am always happy to answer questions about my journey. When I was in the worst of my own withdrawal, the feedback from moderators and members of this community and elsewhere were absolute lifelines. Not that anyone could necessarily fix my problems - but I could walk away with sound, compassionate advice and if nothing else, the knowledge that my suffering had been heard, and that someone ultimately cared about me. Your suffering is heard, and someone ultimately cares about you.

 

I want to thank @Altostrata and every moderator past and present for their kind forbearance, compassion, and dedication. I want to thank every member for their strength, endurance, bravery, and perseverance towards a healthy life free of the chemicals that have caused them harm. You all have something, many things, to be proud of.

 

I believe in every human's potential to heal. Take your time, taper well, make the most sound choices you can, and know that healing is absolutely within your power to achieve.

 

this is the link to his thread: 

 

[Catina7]

Hi @Jaffa, I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time.  I won't go into too much detail, but I can relate to some of the things you have dealt with.  I hope you're hanging in there as best as you can.  

 

You had mentioned previously that although you were trying to eat low carb you wanted to avoid getting into full-blown ketosis.  May I ask what your experience was with that?  Did ketosis make your anxiety worse?  If you feel up to it I'd love to get your thoughts.

 

Sending you empathy and hugs today. ❤️

[Altostrata]

On 7/18/2023 at 2:35 AM, Jaffa said:

Daily notes

Tuesday 18 th/07

abetter nights sleep for last 2 nights with just 100 mg of progesterone . Yesterday was a relatively better day. Not so good today

6:30 wake up

Anxiety and emotional type ache in the solar plexus, tummy, chest, throat

7:30 up and son to school

8:30 25 mg Zoloft 

9:30 breakfast

10 am 0.75 mg progesterone 

10:15 yoga class - awful feelings of low mood lonliness and cut off

11:15 same feelings continue with less anxiety, more low mood

11:15 vit d , vit b complex, introduced vit C 1000 - 

12 shops - anhedonia becoming anxiety and fearful dark thoughts 

1:30 lunch and feelings continue, probiotic

2 pm friend for tea and walk and a cry

4 pm aching and sadness and anxiety/ depression mixed in - felt in chest mainly and stomach. 
6 pm prepared dinner

7:30 feel relatively better , calmer, less pain and sensations

8:30 epsom salt bath

10 100 mg progesterone 

10:30 bed 
Reflection - vit c added first time today. I think I’ll stop it. Maybe too much.  Today was an awful day compared to last two days where I felt like symptoms were less severe. I do need to update my signature and give some more details of my journey. 
Thankyou

 

Hello, you last posted daily notes 5 days ago. Please post daily notes every day.

 

How has your symptom pattern changed since these notes last Tuesday?

 

Are you required to take progesterone on this 10 a.m.- 10 p.m. schedule?

[Jaffa]

Fri 21/7

slept 11-5 woke with anxiety, alertness 

8:30 25 mg Zoloft 

10:30 .75 estrogel

anxiety continues 6/10 all morning 

but depression symptoms have lifted . The depression was dreadful the previous 2 days. 
breakfast smoothie 

11:15 vit d, fish oil, vit b ( always same doses of each daily)

12:30 symptoms persist 6/10 

slow walk with a sister

1-2 pm anxiety 7-8/10 - ? Any thought about nearly anything seems to make my anxiety worse. How am I going to …? What if … ? This event is coming up …etc try deep breathing 

3:30 huge wave of anxiety 8/10 so fast walk for 30 minutes

4-5 pm anxiety continues

5:30-6 gardening at dusk

6 pm bath epsom

 

Sorry Alto my symptoms have become unbearable for me now. Perhaps I’m just not strong enough. I don’t know but I feel like I’m going mad. Two nights ago I started mirtazapine. I was advised to take 15 mg but petrified I took 7.5 mg. I haven’t got worse yet . I know you can’t / won’t advise . I couldn’t updose Zoloft so I had to make this difficult choice. I’m not doing well. So sorry for all the trouble - progesterone 100 mg every night yes. Estrogel every morning. 
Thsnkyou all . 

[Jaffa]

My deepest thanks to haapy2 heal . 

[Happy2Heal]

23 minutes ago, Jaffa said:

 my symptoms have become unbearable for me now. Perhaps I’m just not strong enough. I don’t know but I feel like I’m going mad. Two nights ago I started mirtazapine. I was advised to take 15 mg but petrified I took 7.5 mg. I haven’t got worse yet . I know you can’t / won’t advise . I couldn’t updose Zoloft so I had to make this difficult choice. I’m not doing well.

awwww

hey don't apologize, you haven't done anything to apologize for. 
Many of us tried to get off a med and had to go back on it or sometimes try something else

 

It does NOT mean that you are not strong enough. 
it does mean that these are powerful drugs that are quite difficult to get off of, for many people.

 

you have a lot going on in your life. You need to do what you can to get thru day by day.

No one here is living that life for you or with you, you have to use your best judgement on what you can handle.

with a husband and kids and a sick mom, and all that, you've got a lot going on.

 

I don't think I could have gone thru withdrawal while I was still raising my daughter!

 

so please be gentle with yourself 

 

I hope the mirtazapine doesn't cause you any additional problems. 

 

I hope if you decide to taper off it at some point that you'll come back here (I mean, that is, if you decide not to stick around now)  We can help you do it, if that's what you want.

 

 

I hope the mirtazapine doesn't cause you any additional problems. 

 

all the best to you.

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Happy2Heal

[Happy2Heal]

just  curious, have you ever taken mertazapine before? was just looking up side effects, I took this once, under the brand name Remeron.

 

were you fully informed of all the side effects and interactions?

 

 

 

 

[Jaffa]

Thanks 🙏🏻 

 

No I’ve never taken it before. It’s been recommended because my reaction to updosing Zoloft is Akathisia - which is worse than what I’m currently experiencing which is bad enough. So as mirt has a different mechanism of working I’m hoping it won’t make me worse but I am petrified.  What are your thoughts?

Ive lost so much weight so weight gain is a minor issue but what else do they say friend. I’m so exhausted I can hardly do the research. I’m sure it’s not good. I do have one friend who has managed to be on it for years - 12 years. That said I’m very sensitive. 

[Jaffa]

Happy2 heal what is a good site for me to check the side effects 🙏🏻

[Happy2Heal]

2 minutes ago, Jaffa said:

No I’ve never taken it before. It’s been recommended because my reaction to updosing Zoloft is Akathisia - which is worse than what I’m currently experiencing which is bad enough. So as mirt has a different mechanism of working I’m hoping it won’t make me worse but I am petrified.  What are your thoughts?

Ive lost so much weight so weight gain is a minor issue but what else do they say friend. I’m so exhausted I can hardly do the research.

 

have you noticed any change(s) since you started taking it?

 

you are very smart to go with a low dose. Virtually all of these drugs are like sledgehammers in a way, at the recommended doses they are very strong, some more than others. 

Plus since your central nervous system is quite sensitive now, it's best that if you feel you must take something, that it's the lowest dose you can get. 

 

 

 

I found this site: https://healthmatch.io/medications/mirtazapine#potential-side-effects-of-mirtazapine

 

what it doesn't mention but what I found on a different page about side effects, is that the serious side effects are said to be quite RARE so while it's good to know about them, please don't worry too much about those.

 

I have no idea if taking this drug is a good idea or not!! 

From where I am now, I wouldn't take ANY other psych drug at all, ever. But I am in a different place than you are, a very different place.

 

I don't know if it's a good choice for you or not, Alto might have some ideas on that, but really, it seems with these drugs, it's all trial and error.

 

Every one is so different, that they way each person's body reacts is going to be different.

 

 

how do you feel so far? has it made you feel sleepy?

 

[Jaffa]

Yes it’s made me sleepy. You take it at night and you sleep in my case until 5. I wake then with anxiety (but not as bad as before drug) that makes me moan and move in bed a fair bit. Part of the reason for that though is because I wake up scared and terrified that I’m actually in this position - still shocking! Also scared about taking the mirt and creating worse problems for myself. 

It’s so very hard. I just saw my doctor who really cares about me but she doesn’t have a clue about withdrawal and how these meds go wrong. She hasn’t forced me to increase the mirt but if I’m going to get better and stabilise, I probably need to go to 15 mg. But I’m scared about that because that dose starts to work on neurotransmitters and it might induce Akathisia. I don’t know. 

[Jaffa]

All I know now is that this is too hard and I’m praying that the mirt will work. I’m in a state though about whether to increase the dose to 15 . The 7.5 is very sedating. 
 

There is also a temptation to try to reinstate Zoloft with all its horror and use zyprexa and or low dose benzo to help with the aka and when I stabilise I can slowly wean off zyprexa. In the past I have to get to 125 mg of Zoloft and it’s a torturous journey. But it’s the devil I know. The mirt is different and all new. It’s all terrifying and filling my mind all day. I’m sickly thin sickly anxious and agitated and now with the beginnings of mirt I’m also somewhat sedated. Very dark head space . I also don’t know if Zoloft will work for me again. Am I allowed to ask - what do you think? 

[Happy2Heal]

1 hour ago, Jaffa said:

She hasn’t forced me to increase the mirt but if I’m going to get better and stabilise, I probably need to go to 15 mg. But I’m scared about that because that dose starts to work on neurotransmitters and it might induce Akathisia. I don’t know. 

 

 

what makes you think you "probably need to go to 15mgs" ?

 

I have some links for you that I am saving for later, but please, please, don't make any more changes.

I can't think of a single reason to take any more of that drug than you already are

 

Unless you are a danger to yourself or others, no one can force you to ingest anything that you don't want to (without committing a crime, that is)

 

what you put in your precious body is entirely up to you.

You have seen how dangerous these drugs are, what they have done to you so far, have you not learned anything? I know you are tired and stressed, but think about it please

 

 

55 minutes ago, Jaffa said:

Am I allowed to ask - what do you think? 

you can ask but I don't think you'd understand the answer right now, because you are so tired and have been thru so much

 

as I mentioned above, I have some links I've saved for you but I don't think this is a good time to share them

 

we are in very different places, you and I, and by that I mean, I have learned that all of these drugs cause more harm than good, and I will not ever consider taking another one for any reason.  

That you are considering different cocktails of drugs as if what has happened to you already is not enough to convince you that you are playing with fire, here, means that you still think that there might be some advantage to taking them.... which just doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever

 

so yes you can ask what I think but even if you understood the answer, you wouldn't like it.

I am very afraid for you, that you think you can add drugs willy nilly like this

 

It's understandable how you might come to this conclusion, since you believe your doctor cares for you, so you want to trust her, but she can care about you and still be causing you harm, because her only training, the only thing she has to offer you, is drugs and more drugs

 

It's like the saying, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail

 

it's all your choice of course, but as someone who had over 40 years on all sorts of drugs, and who now sees that those four decades of my life were literally STOLEN from me by these drugs, I would never in a million years suggest that someone take a new  drug thinking they can fix the problems caused by another drug. 

 

I mean, if you want to be depressed, keep fooling around with zyprexa,

and You must be very tired still to think that going back to the drug that you said gave your akathisia is something worth entertaining  🙄😐😬😳

If you want to risk being kindled then keep taking benzos or sleep drugs, but 

I hope and pray that you find another way 

when you are feeling better and  have gotten some sleep

 

I don't want anyone to have the kind of regrets that I do

almost my entire adult life GONE 

I can never get that time back. There is so much of life that I missed out on

 

I think if my life is going to mean anything at all, it will be as a cautionary tale: don't let ANYONE else tell you what to put into your body, NO ONE

Do your own research, think for yourself, trust your gut, if something makes you feel bad ask yourself, do the pros outweigh the cons?

what are the benefits and what are the risks?

learn from your own experience, don't take a drug pushers words as the truth (that is all these drs are now, legal drug pushers) 

 

 

but for now, get some sleep, take care of yourself

 

try to live in the present moment

 

we agreed to take these drugs because we believed that they would help us feel better, or think more clearly

 

but feeling bad is part of life and learning how to cope with our emotions is something we all need to learn how to do

 

learning how to direct our thinking so that we are not making ourselves sick with useless worries is something we can't get from a pill

 

 learning how to self soothe and learning how to change the channel when your mind goes to a dark place or a worrisome place, those things can make a huge difference in our lives ❤️ 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Happy2Heal

[Jaffa]

Thanks 🙏🏻❤️

 

Im really not well and I’m told that while 7.5 will help with sleep it’s not going to help me get back to normal. That’s why I’m thinking of the 15 mg. I need to feel somewhat ok again. 
 

Just one more question,

If I decided to stop mirt after these 2 nights I’ve taken it, could I just stop or do I need to taper somewhat