Jaffa: Possibly late onset withdrawal

[Doctorsrcrap]

@Jaffa

How's it going?

I hope you are managing to make those daily notes. They really can be most useful to the mods here. Even if you think there is nothing of use in them to the more experienced eye they maybe able to see that one thing that could help. Even if it's only by 1%. 

Please don't think you are permanently damaged. I know how terrifying this is but I believe the general opinion is, given enough time your brain will repair itself. 

I've read someone say before that the great thing about this is you don't have to believe you can get better for it to happen because it will happen anyway. The brain is remarkable. Although I would say believing you will get better does make things a tiny bit easier. 

Sending you healing vibes

[Jaffa]

I cannot figure out how to put in my daily notes. Why is there not a simple “ daily note” button to press. I go into my profile and see my signature but what do I press next to be able to submit my notes. This is extremely frustrating and is provoking worse anxiety for me. I’m not tech savvy obviously. Please be more explicit. I fluked it once but I’m really not working it out these last two days despite my best efforts 

[Jaffa]

I cannot figure out how to put in my daily notes. Why is there not a simple “ daily note” button to press. I go into my profile and see my signature but what do I press next to be able to submit my notes. This is extremely frustrating and is provoking worse anxiety for me. I’m not tech savvy obviously. Please be more explicit. I fluked it once but I’m really not working it out these last two days despite my best efforts 

[Jaffa]

Ok I think this is the place for daily notes . 
28th of June 23

11 pm - 2 pm 3 hours sleep on - progesterone, 2 paracetamol, 2 mg of melatonin 

8 am 25 mg of Zoloft 

estrogel hrt on arm

anxiety, tension in body, hyper alert, chest stomach throat like steel knots contracted 

11 am walk

12 electrolyte drink no sugar

2 pm lunch

3 pm meditation- vindyamala Burch breathworks

anxiety slightly improved by afternoon but lots of mental anxiety about whether I’m going to be able to get through this or breakdown and end up in hospital 

4pm burning tingling and tightness in body continues but less acute giving way to anhedonia 

5 pm bath

7-9 a bit more relaxed 

10 pm bed - no drugs or supplements and slept well. 8 hours

[Shep]

7 hours ago, Jaffa said:

I cannot figure out how to put in my daily notes. Why is there not a simple “ daily note” button to press. I go into my profile and see my signature but what do I press next to be able to submit my notes. This is extremely frustrating and is provoking worse anxiety for me. I’m not tech savvy obviously. Please be more explicit.

 

I just moved three more of your posts off of three new intro threads and merged them into your current intro thread.  There is no "daily note" button. All you need to do is post here in this thread. Go to the bottom of this thread and use the text box (where it says "Reply to this topic") to post your information and then press the Submit Reply button. 

 

I placed your intro/update thread link in your signature and also in your profile. If you lose track of it, go to the upper right corner of your computer and click on the little drop down arrow next to your username. The link to your introduction topic is over on the left side toward the bottom. You may want to bookmark it on your computer. 

 

Here is the link to your thread. 

 

Jaffa: Possibly late onset withdrawal

 

It takes staff time to merge threads.  Please bookmark it on your computer or phone. You can go to YouTube and search "how to bookmark a webpage on computer or phone" and find instructions. 

 

 

[Jaffa]

Thankyou , I will do all this . I will learn how to bookmark. Sorry for all the trouble . 

[Shep]

21 minutes ago, Jaffa said:

Thankyou , I will do all this . I will learn how to bookmark. Sorry for all the trouble . 

 

Thanks, Jaffa. We want you to feel confident posting here. We try to keep it as simple as possible. 

 

The way you just posted your last message is perfect. You're already learning. You'll be an expert at posting on web forums before you're off this drug and on your way to healing. 

 

Please continue posting your daily notes. It will take a few days for us to look for any patterns. 

[Jaffa]

👍Thankyou 

[Altostrata]

16 hours ago, Jaffa said:

anxiety, tension in body, hyper alert, chest stomach throat like steel knots contracted 

 

Does this happen every day after you take Zoloft?

 

Do you add the estrogen at the same time every day? If so, please move it several hours after you take Zoloft. Please continue daily notes.

[Jaffa]

29 th of June

A better day relatively 

slept 8 hours with no meds or supplements 

morning anxiety was reduced 

still numb and inwardly shaken

zoloft 25 mg 8:30 am

breakfast

9:45 5 mi of herbal mix in small amount of water - withania and passion flower. 
vitamin D

estrogel hrt

10 am walk for an hour 

symptoms less remarkable ( tightness in throat, stomach, chest) less tingling but flat anhedonia 

1 pm lunch

1:30 appointment with psychiatrist Shaun tampiyappa ( wrote an essay for MiA. Understands iatrogenesis. Rec I use zyprexa 2.5 if I reach a point of not being able to cope anymore but otherwise to stick this out would be ideal. Petrified me but I managed the online consult. He’s worried about adding anything that might cause Akathisia given my drug history. 
3:00 pm onwards anhedonia much the same

4 pm anxiety arrives with tingles in back and arms 6/10

5 pm cook for 2Hours

7:15 dinner

8:30 bath

10:30 bed 

slept 11-3

woke at 3 with terrible wave and feelings of fear in chest. 
rocked with hot water bottle in bed till morning 

[Jaffa]

Alto strata

i’ve been taking my 25 mg of zoloft for nine months prior to that it was 27 for three months 29 for three months and so forth up to 50 mg. I have been using estrogel on my arm for two years in the morning after my shower. It’s never posed any problems. It’s only since I’ve gone into this withdrawal or poop out whatever this iatrogenic injury is that all this terrible stuff is happening to me . 
 

The tension I speak of does not always happen after taking the Zoloft in the morning. yesterday, for example I didn’t have much tension relatively speaking, although I still felt dreadful. And today the wave I had at 3 am in the morning, woke me up and there doesn’t seem to be any pattern around when I take things and what’s happening to me. This just feels like a kind of poop out or iatrogenesis that’s doing it’s own thing 

 

 

[Jaffa]

Psychiatrist I saw yesterday, Dr Sean Tapanappa was very attentive and concerned about my past episodes of akathisia. He used a metaphor that I had gone into Iraq  to fight a war, and then I’d withdrawn the troops, and the architecture of the city had changed, and I was hoping to be free. He then said that The architecture may not change and that I might need to just resign myself to medication, but his concern was what was the safest medication to use in that instance given my history with akathisia. 
 

he asked me about what you the surviving antidepressants team have said, and what Laura Delano inner compass  has said. He didn’t try and tell me what to do, but he could see I was struggling. Because I’ve tried zyprexa, only on two occasions in the last six weeks, and not experienced akathisia, or any real problem with that drug, he suggested that that would probably be the best option for me in my circumstances.

 

of course I don’t want to do this and I’m terrified of xyprexa - The metabolic drug that causes so many problems but I’m also not sure I can endure this for a year or even two and I’m worried that I have an autistic daughter and a son who is 14 with sensory processing difficulties and challenges. My mother is 89 and at the end of her life, and I feel terrified to even go and visit her because of the way I’m feeling . she has lymphoma and will die soon. My family live far and wide and are not very supportive. They will be annoyed to know that I tapered from 50 to 25 mg of Zoloft when I’ve had these episodes in the past. I’m feeling a bit annoyed with myself for that very reason, given that I’m finding myself here again. I never ever thought. This would happen to me again, because I thought I was on top of this. I thought Id done it carefully, and I wouldn’t experience this ever Again. 
 

 

[Jaffa]

On 25 mg of Zoloft and experiencing horrible withdrawal symptoms

 

Question
I’m on 25 mg of Zoloft. I did an extremely slow taper from 50 to 25. Stressful events brought on withdrawal symptoms despite me being stable for nine months on 25 and over the last four years on higher doses as I temperamentally came down. 
It’s been six weeks of hell. I’m holding on this 25 because I just want everything to level out. I don’t have intentions of ever coming off completely. I just want to be stable so I can mother my children and get on with my life. My question is:-

is it possible for me to become stable on the 25 mg or do I have to go off this drug completely if the 25 mg has completely pooped out what am I supposed to do with it?

Edited June 30, 2023 by manymoretodays
merged from tapering to member topic, title added

[Altostrata]

We're about reducing drugs, not throwing another drug into the mix unless it's absolutely necessary.

 

It is typical for people taking any psychiatric drugs to have "anhedonia" or an absence of or limited feelings. Emotional anesthesia can persist after you go off the drugs, and very slowly fade. This is the drugs' effect, not a psychiatric disorder.

 

I don't see any "akathisia" in your daily notes. When is it at the worst? Please indicate in your notes.

 

It's difficult for me to follow your signature, such as finding your current drugs. Please reformat it with the date on the left and event on the right.

 

Please continue to post daily notes.

 

[manymoretodays]

18 hours ago, Jaffa said:

is it possible for me to become stable on the 25 mg or do I have to go off this drug completely if the 25 mg has completely pooped out what am I supposed to do with it?

 

Yes.

And if in poop out/tolerance, the best way off is still going to be tapering.  Again, after a long period of stabilization.  I know it feels long, but you might stabilize soon, with more manageable symptoms than what you presently feel.  Do keep the notes coming.  Again, post them in a reply box in this thread, your personal topic, and Introduction.  That will help us see, if a updose may be in order now.  Be descriptive of symptoms rather than using broad terms.

 

Some helps on clarity in your signature(different from notes):

Started Zoloft in 2004. Slowly to 75 mg - experienced horrific Akathisia for three weeks until I felt ok

2006 - reduced slowly to 25 without issue then off -  unbearable anxiety insomnia so reinstated with horrific Akathisia. 
years later tried to taper again with psychiatrist support- same story and Akathisia 

stayed on drug at 50 mg for years and had a baby, tapered to 25 mg 

stayed ok on 25 for 7 years then acute anxiety panic maybe hormones ??

Updosed to 125 mg- torturous Akathisia until stable. 
slowly tapered to 50 mg over years - no withdrawal affects

Recently- in the last 4 years tapered by 2 mg every 3 months until I reached 25mg 5 months ago. Sudden health anxiety a month ago and whoosh I’m in what feels like tolerance or late onset withdrawal. Stopped sleeping, stopped feeling anything but anxiety. No joy or normal feelings. 
doctor prescribed zyprexa which I took twice in the last two weeks but scared of it. I’ve also taken 1 x 1 mg of Ativan one night. Used temazepam infrequently but now used it the last 4 nights. 15 -18 of June. Also using 2 mg of melatonin. Sleeping 3 hours. 
script for mirtrazipine 15 mg but scared to try. 

My introduction thread: Jaffa: Possibly late onset withdrawal

 

Here's a possible:

2004- Zoloft, up to 75 mg experienced akathisia for 3 weeks then okay  2006-slow reduction to 25 mg then symptoms, so updosed to 50 mg, later to 25 mg and okay for 7 years, updose to 125 mg, tortuous symptoms(akathisia) then stabilized,  back to 50 mg- doing fine without withdrawal.

2019 - 2023 Zoloft tapering by 2 mg linear taper every 3 months started at 50 mg, got to 25 mg around January 2023.  June 2023- health anxiety and what feels like withdrawal again.  Insomnia, anxiety, blunted good feelings.

2023 June- Zyprexa taken twice, ativan 1 mg taken once, temazepan infrequent but 15- 18th of June used for 4 nights

 

You could fill in the dose of temazepam, and leave out the melatonin, and sleeping details.  Most of symptoms go into narrative replies or notes.  Do put the melatonin in your notes, with dose, as well as if you take it, and also any thyroid medication now.

 

Hope that helps Jaffa.  Don't let the fear of fear, or obsessions with past symptoms of how bad it was overtake you.  I'll include the anxiety tips, and some Claire Weeks links here too.  She talks about the fear of fear.  The audio one may still not work, plenty of youtube if you put her name in the search box.  Even now.......there are things that might help even if just a little

We strongly encourage members to learn and use non drug coping techniques to help get through tough times.

 

Understanding what is happening helps us to not get caught up with the second fear, or fear of the fear.  This happens when we experience sensations in our body and because we don't understand them we are scared of them and then start to panic.

 

This document has a diagram of the body explaining what happens in the body when we become anxious:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/AnxietySelfHelp.pdf

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

Audio FEMALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Audio MALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

 

Dr Claire Weekes suffered from anxiety and learned and taught ways of coping.  There are videos available on YouTube.

 

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy

 

Resources:  Centre for Clinical Interventions (PDF modules that you can work through, eg:  Depression, Distress Intolerance, Health Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Panic Attacks, Perfectionism, Procrastination, Social Anxiety, Worrying)

 

(merged another post from tapering, mmt)

 

Sending relax, deep restorative breathes, hopeful pauses, and above all sleep,

mmt

 

  

8 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Please continue to post daily notes.

 

More notes please.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by manymoretodays
more added later

[Jaffa]

Many more days thank you for all these links . They are all good material. I'm familiar with Claire Weeks work. She's Australian I think. 

The information about anxiety is excellent and reassuring because it certainly is what I'm experiencing. 

However its also important to say that the anxiety is always there regardless of breathing exercises, exercise etc because there is some kind of iatrogenic injury. My body is definitely not producing the amount of serotonin it should be. My theory is that , while my taper was slow and careful, some major health stress set off a chemical or neurological reaction that my brain did not have the capacity to cope with due to iatrogenic injury. Its like everything operates as normal and withdrawal doesn't set in until a rush of stress puts the brain to the test and suddenly ..... whoops ... the receptor die off is registered. 

 

My 18 years on Zoloft have included about 5 or 6 times where I had to updose from a low dose 25mg and suffered horrific torturous akathisia. I could not be left alone on these occasions. Every noise was loud, every light was bright and I fought suicidal thoughts constantly. The last episode I had was so long. The Zoloft took longer to settle and I worried that I had kindled. That was back in 2016 I think? I don't know whats happening now but even when I'm not stressed mentally, the anxiety is there and the burning tinging skin is there . Im less hyper alert today because I used temazepam 10 mg last night at 3pm because I was in a state of unbearable suffering. I hardly use temaz and if I do its always 10mg. 

 

So last night my resilience to all this was failing. I was in complete despair. I thought I might have to go to hospital and start zyprexa or mirtrazipine or even Zoloft and zyprexa. I felt like I could not live with this for another day. I don't know if I can keep going like this. I am facing it one day at a time. Its been nearly seven weeks of agony. The agony is nowhere near as bad as akathisia but its still agony. 

 

Thankyou for all your care and support. I plan to make a donation soon but I'm a little cautious because Ive had to quit work. Wouldn't it be wonderful if I healed . It certainly doesn't feel like I am. It feels like Im in a very dark narrow tunnel and my home feels like a prison

 

Jaffa

[Jaffa]

Daily notes

June 30th

night sleep 11-3am then a wave of yuck, 2 panadol

8 am 25 mg of zoloft

breakfast

10;30 herbal sup - withania and passionflower 5mls in a little water

morning symptoms -anxiety, dread, needing to take deep breaths, tightness down the front of the torso especially concentrated in throat, solar plexus and stomach, alert, hyper vigilant

11:30 long walk for 1 hr feeling despair , resilience waning.

12:30 anxiety down a notch after walk but exhausted and still nervous 

electrolyte drink and 1000vitD

2pm lunch

2:40 meditation body scan

3:15 all afternoon terrible symptoms of anxiety 8/10, burning skin and tension most of day, 

5pm bath epsom salts

evening feelings of hopelessness and despair and exhaustion

10pm bed 2 panadol, progesterone, 2mg of melatonin

2am woke up with a wave of anxiety and at 3am took 10mg of temazepam and slept for another 2 hours.

 

July 1st

Zoloft 9 am ( nearly forgot)

less anxiety due to temazepam 10 mg taken at 3 am but weakness 

Ive lost a lot of weight despite eating lots of calorific food - healthy fats, protein, some carb, coconut oil, nut butters, eggs, meat, veg no dairy or gluten except full cream greek yoghurt at night. Now 49 kilograms down from 56.5kg when this started.

vit D 1000

got out with husband for lunch despite feeling dreadful

visited a friend in the afternoon for a tea despite feeling dreadful

whole day relatively easier due to the temazepam in my system I think

6:35 pm as I type this - feeling the yuck all through me but off for bath now

10:30 2 panadol,  2mg melatonin and hopefully some sleep

[Altostrata]

What does "wave of yuck" mean? What were the symptoms, how long did they last?

 

What happened to the estrogen gel? Where did progesterone come from? Do you use them both intermittently? Why are you taking either of them?

 

It's going to be difficult to interpret your symptom pattern with intermittent temazepam. Please clarify your signature as @manymoretodays so helpfully suggested.

 

The theories about neurotransmitter balances or whatever are not valid and have no bearing on your symptoms.

[Jaffa]

Wave of yuck is my way of expressing hard to express symptoms of unusual sensation in trunk of body. Tightness from throat to belly, air gasping, tingles, burning, anxiety. These symptoms range from severe9/10 to less severe 6/10. 
Ive been on hrt for two years post menopause. EVERY DAY  I use estrogel on arm and take progesterone at night. I have also started ovestin cream internal for my irritated bladder. My bladder is ok now but I use it as instructed 2 nights a week inserted vaginal before bed. 
 

This is definitely iatrogenic harm that I’m experiencing. This is not just me being anxious. I don’t know the science of what’s happening but it’s happened before and it’s happening now. 
 

I’ll try to rewrite my signature although many more days summary was correct

 

[Altostrata]

Please review adverse effects of estrogel, progesterone, and ovestin cream on drugs.com or similar. It is possible some of your symptoms are from these steroids.

 

In order to interpret your symptom pattern, we need you to take your drugs every day on the same schedule. This can show which drugs are causing problems.

 

Please add dosages to all drugs in your daily notes. Please report daily notes with time of day on the left and event on the right. Thank you.

[Jaffa]

Thankyou

 

Ive checked the drugs. Com info on all hrt products. It’s all a bit frightening to do this at present but none of it seems to indicate that anxiety is increased from the use of hrt. I can stop hrt later but don’t think it wise to throw this into the mix of what I’m currently experiencing. 
Im not sure this site is going to benefit me in regards to seeing a pattern of symptoms. I do take everything at the same dose at roughly the same time every day. I don’t see any rhythm to my symptoms other than to say that the symptoms are consistently dreadful but can vary between 6/10 to 9/10 in intensity. My resilience wears out at times and I feel like I’m going to end up collapsing. Yesterday I had a better day 5-6/10 but this morning I’m feeling the usual 7/10 after a night where I woke at 3 with this shaky depressed and anxious feeling in my solar plexus. Sometimes I wonder if the progesterone and 2 mg of melatonin at night are too much ? I can’t cut this melatonin 2 mg because it’s prolonged release and therefore not recommended. There is no other over the counter option in Australia. So you have one you could recommend that I can buy online? 
Thanks for your care. I’m sorry but I’m struggling with notes. I’m putting in a journal and hope to update soon. It’s a bit disturbing writing up my notes. 
sincere thanks 

Jaffa

[Jaffa]

Then again after some reading today low estrogen may be a factor. God I don’t know what to do anymore. I’m so exhausted. My anxiety today was continuous all day despite walking, cooking and taking all the same meds at the same time as usual. Maybe it is hormones?? Idk

[manymoretodays]

Hi Jaffa,

It sounded like you were okay with the proposed signature revision I did.  So, I went ahead and put it in place.  If you want to do any revisions or updates to it, now or later.......you can just go directly there using this link:  AccountSettings/Signature/updates/edits   Just remember to hit/click the Save at the button when done.

Your previous signature is available, in the post where I copied it.

 

And yes, Claire Weekes was an Aussie.

 

2 hours ago, Jaffa said:

God I don’t know what to do anymore. I’m so exhausted

 

It IS exhausting, no doubt, and it sure sounds like you are soldiering through.  I did read and notice that you do have quite a bit of responsibilities to family ongoing, and a huge stress with your older Mum's illness(and then fears of losing her too!).  And it's tough, as often no one quite "gets" what you are dealing with in any easily understandable form.  I came up with several ways to present my more acute protracted WD/ iatrogenic changes, or terms to use with others........hmmmm, trying to remember what they were.......things like "I'm having some medication adverse effects", or "health related issues".  Just go broad and general for the lay person......but do begin to reach out a bit for some on the ground support and understanding.  I mean if you have any friends that could just come around and help you a bit, or even just to listen and share a cup of tea..........it can do wonders.

 

Here's a quick link to another forum we have for members:  Relationships and social life  Once you are signed in, you can access that forum, it's members only.  Some of the pinned topics there will give you ideas to help you relate your present "illness state" to others.  None of us should go through this alone, and sometimes it's really tough to ask others to help at home, on the ground........as they don't get it, why you can't just be fixed with your present drug or another drug.  It just adds to our distress.  Try now, to think of things that your family or friends could do that would help.  And then be direct in asking for what you need.

 

Is there someone you could go to do some stretching with, or Yoga, or laugh with and cry with?  Do you have any help with your kids to give you some respite and relax?  Even if you can't completely relax, you might be able to distract in a way that gives relief.  Back to back television of neutral content, or sometimes music without lyrics..........long baths.......peace and quiet without uber (tons of) responsibilities.

 

Oh, beyond Claire Weekes........you could likely access baylissa.com online, no need to join or pay to access some of the resource material there.  She has some books written too, which have proved invaluable to many members providing comfort and understanding, and even some new coping ideas.  She went through her own long haul with WD, and iatrogenic changes.........and came out the other side.  As you will.  I know it doesn't feel like that now.........you will heal, and stabilize.  Imagine it.  Have faith in your bodies inherent ability to get back to homeostasis.  And just faith in general.  Finding meaning now or later.......can really help.

 

Remember neuroemotions too.  You can read more about them starting here:  Neuroemotions 1st post 

 

I think it's a mix of things Jaffa, stress, hormones, WD, and basically you got thrown into a Wave, now going on 6 weeks or so I believe.

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

No thyroid problem that requires medication?  I'd asked that before and still wondered.

 

Keep going with at least a series of a few more days of notes please too.  As Alto is still looking in, as am I. 

 

Keep up the good work.  Hoping you can find some friendly help and support at home too soon.........that can make all the difference sometimes.  Meantime, treat your nervous system like a baby that needs your care......in other words self care and the best that you can do. 

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited July 3, 2023 by manymoretodays
grammar, spacing

[Jaffa]

Thankyou for these kind words. I’m reading this in the early morning hours as I haven’t slept after an exhausting day of symptoms. I feel like I’m breaking - can’t keep going like this . I just want it to stop. Im so thin and traumatised. I just need to get out of this tunnel of darkness. I hate taking anything but I’m suffering so much that I’m thinking of taking a benzo of sorts right now. I rarely use them but I’m just feeling like I can’t keep doing this for another minute. Im so sorry. 
Alternatively I could try mirtrazipine tonight first time. I know your saying no but friend I just feel so hopeless. Im so sorry 

[manymoretodays]

@Jaffa Any sleep last night at all?  If it was me......I think I would opt for the temazepam.  If you really need it.  Rather than adding anything new drug wise.   You've noted taking a 10 mg dose I believe, which does seem to offer at least short term relief.  I'm no benzo expert, but I wonder if you might be able to try and see if less than 10 mg helps.  It's fuzzy on how long acting it is, it gives a 8-22 hour half life in this chart:

https://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

1/2 life times refer to the time it will take until it's level goes down by 1/2 in your plasma.  That one shows too, the chart, that 10 mg of temazepam is equivalent to 5 mg of Valium.  Neither here nor there right now......just good to know.   So you don't end up taking super high doses that you likely don't need for just rescues.

 

So I might try 1/2 dose of 10 mg temazepam and maybe, if you haven't yet.......try it when at bedtime. 

I'm just going with less is often enough, for one off dosing and relief.  If 5 mg doesn't help, then you could do the other 5 mg.

 

Make sure you note it in NOTES, and on a calendar or something for yourself, so you have a written record of your frequency of usage. And dosages.  I mean I'm hoping you are not dependent on it, as yet......with just intermittent usage.  I'd go with it for just one off dosing, no more than twice a week when symptoms are extreme with hopes of avoiding another dependency(physical/physiological), if at all possible.

More from benzo.org uk here too, for when you are feeling more settled and able to take in information:

Benzo FAQ's

 

I just think one offs of a benzo may be better than starting mirtazapine now.  Certainly better than Zyprexa, a nasty neuroleptic/antipsychotic brain deadener of types.

 

Epsom salt baths if you have a tub, or some magnesium in any form may be calming as well, or to try before even the benzo, temazepam.

Our topic:   Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

Sleep tips  withdrawal and withdrawal like insomnia is awful hard, many can relate

Early morning waking- managing the morning and other cortisol spikes

 

I hope some of those topics help.  And then just keep jotting notes on paper, so you can post today's tomorrow, and then a few more days too.

This will/should gradually lose it's intensity.......all your symptoms right now.  The worst Waves are often followed by some great Windows, and I for one believe that it's a sign things are perhaps trying to settle in the nervous system somehow.......heal......during the Waves that really do try us.

 

Okay, hoping this finds you a bit more at peace than at the early hour you posted at.  Maybe that intensity of your symptoms already passed??  You don't have to take temazepam, if you already improved.  I'm just describing what I might do in your shoes, if I was just barely hanging on.  Feeling like I could not possibly make it another minute or even hour.    Hold on tight, improvement is around the corner........waving my wand ferociously!  Fourth of July, here in the States......which means explosives going off everywhere.......well, fireworks.  My nervous system is okay this year I think for some viewing from a distance.  Sometimes, it sounds like a war zone though.......lucky me, I have a basement bunker......LOL.  Just trying to shift you into imagining something, anything outside of symptoms.......that can be so all consuming if we let them.  Man, they can be fierce.  However, don't fear them......don't go to battle with symptoms outside your control........go mellow, meek......."I can get through another hour today".........get or give some hugs.  Find something humorous.  Cry.  Eat some all American Apple Pie.  Eat something if you are losing weight and frail.......just eat something for the sake of eating.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by manymoretodays

[Jaffa]

Thankyou 

I didn’t take anything in the end . I didn’t sleep more than 2 or possibly 3 hours. This is so hard. I don’t have the faith that I can get through it. I don’t know why some days are 6/10 and then they are 9/10. It’s been 7 weeks of constant pain and loneliness. 
Im going to see a friend today for a hug and some yoga. I’ll make a chicken cacciatore. It all sounds good but the pain and anxiety makes the experience all just blah. 
Thanks for the advice about temazepam. I don’t expect 5 mg to do anything at all because 10 sometimes does little. I did have a kava tablet before going to bed last night ( 450 kavalactones) did nothing.  
One of the reasons I took kava was because I decided not to take 2 mg melatonin because I read that it inhibits estrogen and wondered if that was causing symptoms. All the research- it’s too much. Your links are great . Thankyou 

I feel worried about what this is and what will fix it . Maybe it’s post menopause anxiety. I’m so confused. Maybe it’s iatrogenic injury . It certainly feels like that but I just don’t know anymore so that makes it hard to know how to approach this. I’ll try and send the link to you about estrogen and melatonin but I’m not very tech savvy. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[Jaffa]

3 Rd of July

Terrible night 4 hours sleep after taking 2 Panadol, 2 mg of melatonin , prometrium ( progesterone) 

 

8:30 Zoloft 25 mg

symptoms all morning- anxiety 7/10 - hyperactive, fast heartbeat, tingling in arms and upper back, tightness in stomach and chest and throat. Fast intrusive thoughts 

10 am estrogel - half pump because wondered if it’s making me anxious but then later read that low estrogen can cause anxiety 🤪. IDK

11 am walk

12 electrolyte drink sugar free and vit D 1000

anxiety reduced to 6/10 for an hour 

food shopping 

2 pm lunch anxiety increasing again to 7/10. Did some cooking though totally exhausted couldn’t relax

visited friend briefly 

cooked dinner

epsom salt bath 

anxiety and despair and mental fatigue till bedtime 

9:30 pm took 1 kava ( 450 mg ) did nothing

10:30 bed 2 Panadol, 1 prometrium ( progesterone) didn’t get to sleep till 12:30 ish . Slept 2-3 hours. Rocked in bed with hot water bottle till morning. 
 

note:- didn’t take the 2 mg of melatonin because I read that it can block estrogen?? Thought I might try not taking it because I’m scared also that after prolonged use it will stop working. 

[Jaffa]

Just wondering if adding a tablespoon of this protein powder to my smoothie in morning is ok 🙏🏻

 

wont let me post photo unfortunately 

[Altostrata]

17 hours ago, Jaffa said:

symptoms all morning- anxiety 7/10 - hyperactive, fast heartbeat, tingling in arms and upper back, tightness in stomach and chest and throat. Fast intrusive thoughts 

 

Is this better or worse after you take Zoloft?

[Jaffa]

No difference really. The morning anxiety is just dreadful and I have this tightness, pain, sensation in my sternum chest area and throat and more subtly the stomach. It just feels like nerves but it’s constant and I feel like it’s cemented there. It gets sometimes and then an anxious thought or trigger intensifies it. This morning I wondered as I woke up to it, is this emotional or is something structural there? But I googled and found nothing so I think it’s emotional and a bit of GERD from the anxiety . I’m in no thyroid medication and my blood thyroid tests were fine but sometimes I wonder if my large nodule is secreting thyroxine. However the specialist says that’s unlikely if the bloodwork is normal. Thankyou 🙏🏻

[Jaffa]

July 3

kava 45 mg  at 9:30

2-3 hours sleep- dreadful night of despair and anxiety and rocking movements to cope with it all. 
2 Panadol, 100 mg progesterone 

july 4

8:30 zoloft 25 mg

breakfast no appetite but force my self to eat every meal

10:15 estrogel 1 pump 0.75 mg

visited friend- alert, tight in chest and stomach and throat, tingling in arms, upper back . Slight faint feeling 

1 pm electrolyte drink, vit D 1000

2 pm lunch

3 pm swimming pool

hrlped with awful sensations

5 pm felt a bit better anxiety wise but also highly vulnerable, mentally scared about what’s happening to me

6:30 dinner

7 bath

8 movie and a little bit of laughing 

10 pm 2 Panadol, 2 mg melatonin, 100 mg progesterone 

better sleep 6-7 hours 

 

[Altostrata]

Quote

 

2019 - 2023 Zoloft tapering by 2 mg linear taper every 3 months started at 50 mg, got to 25 mg around January 2023.  June 2023- health anxiety and what feels like withdrawal again.  Insomnia, anxiety, blunted good feelings.

 

 

 

 

Is June 2023 when "Insomnia, anxiety, blunted good feelings" started? Prior to that, when was the last time you changed your Zoloft dose? Did you have withdrawal symptoms while reducing from 50mg to 25mg?

 

When did you start the progesterone and estrogel? Please include this in your signature. Since December 2022, what have been your dosage changes in each of these steroids?

[Jaffa]

So I’ve been on 25 mg of Zoloft for 9 months. It was September 2022 when I finally hit the 25 and could stop using a compounding pharmacist. I just purchased the 50 mg and chopped in half. There were no withdrawal symptoms to speak of on the way down to 25 mg. I did experience one wave 4 years ago when I went from 50 mg to 45 mg. It was very strange and in hindsight I got my last period and went into menopause at that time. It took about 8 weeks to come good . But I did come good eventually and have survived many stressors since then - children diagnosed with autism, husband diagnosed with autism, an operation to remove an ovarian cyst and fallopian tube. I have one ovary left with uterus. 
 

The hrt has been consistent. It’s never caused problems since I was on it and I was scared it would. The dose has been stable 0.75 estrogen, 100 mg of progesterone. The only new introduction was the ovestin cream for bladder irritation but this all started before that was introduced . 
 

I know that my hypothesis is not scientifically credible but I do believe that a high stress / anxiety event can be too much for a brain that been through dose changes , Akathisia etc. I think that my brain chemistry or architecture has altered and it goes along ok until I hit panic and then there’s ptsd as well. I feel I need some trauma work done. But even so the symptoms are harsh. 
The last two nights my sleep has been a bit better 6 maybe 7 hours . Yesterday was a noticeably better day with symptoms- still there but not as bad. Fingers crossed 🤞 for today. 
 

Thankyou 

[Jaffa]

Also I’ve been using 2mg of melatonin regularly now It’s prolonged release so I can’t cut it. It recommends only using it for 3 weeks. I’m a bit nervous about that . What are your thoughts about continuous use? 

[Jaffa]

Friday 7 th of July  

slept the previous night 2 mg of melatonin, 100 mg of progesterone. 
 

8:30 am 25 mg of Zoloft 

symptoms are less intense today in the morning and is was the same yesterday. Anxiety and tightness/ pain in throat, chest, stomach is less pronounced but still felt. 
11 am friend arrived and we walked and had lunch. Aware of flatness and awful feelings of nothing. Underlying anxiety but not so much burning and tingling. This continues for most of day. 
3pm exhausted and feeling like I could sleep but I don’t attempt it . 
4 -6 pm bath, prepare dinner 

7 pm eat 

Disturbing continued feelings of nothing . Watch tv

10 pm 100 mg progesterone and 2 mg of melatonin 10:45 sleep

[Altostrata]

On 7/5/2023 at 1:20 PM, Altostrata said:

When did you start the progesterone and estrogel? Please include this in your signature. Since December 2022, what have been your dosage changes in each of these steroids?

 

If you will not assist us in excluding possible confounders, we can't help you. Your symptoms may be from these other drugs annd have nothing to do with your psychiatric drugs. We can't work miracles, sorry.

 

Your daily notes do not include all your steroid doses.