N2deep Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Hi Jaffa, how did your talk with MH go? What did he have to say about sensitization? Olanzapine (5mg) started June 2023 - This is the only drug I'm currently taking, haven't used any other psych drugs. After 4 weeks dropped to 2.5mg for 5 days then dropped to 1.25mg for 3 days, withdrawals commenced. I then took a single dose of 3.75mg. Then went to 2.5mg. since July 19 Hoping to hold at 2.5mg and GODWILLING I will STABILIZE. I can't tell WD symptoms from Long Covid symptoms. I think a bit of both, and I think my quick earlier taper has made the LC symptoms worse ... what to do. Update: Sept 28 2023: -2.5% Oct 5: -2.5% Oct 12: -2.5% Oct 19: -5% Oct 29: -5% Nov 10: -5% 2.0mg Nov 20: -5% 1.9mg Nov 30: -5% 1.8mg Dec 12: 1.75mg Dec 22: 1.70mg Dec 29: 1.65mg Jan 06/24: 1.60mg Jan 14: 1.55mg Jan 25: 1.50mg Feb 12: Updose to 1.55mg Apr 25: 1.50mg (percentage drops are from previous dose) Link to comment
Jaffa Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 @N2deep @wantrelief My session with MH and the discussion around hypersensitivity was inconclusive. I listened to a discussion between Angie Peacock and MH around this subject of hypersensitivity and here is the info Iv'e gathered. Hypersensitivity seems to be part of the withdrawal process and we all have this to a degree. There was no discussion around how long it lasts as I guess this is an unknown. In my case it was 9 weeks and seemed to be getting worse, as I was worn down by it, rather than getting better. At 9 weeks I started the 15mg of mirtazapine .... a whole different branch of my story for another time. In the discussion with AP there was an analogy MH used about "the Benz" when you go deep sea diving. You must come up from the deep slowly to avoid getting awful symptoms as the pressure changes. Within that analogy he said that if the blood vessels erupted and there was an injury then coming up slowly would not make much difference. So the question we are left pondering, certainly if you are a long time AD user who has had multiple attempts to come off unsuccessfully, is :- Is my brain or nervous system injured? Is there some kind of damage done that would create long term suffering? All this said, its still a guess. I am struggling to understand why, after a slow taper going down by 2mg held for three months at a time from 50mg of Zoloft to 25mg, I suffered a frightening episode 9 months after being on 25mg. The first sign of that was an irritated bladder ( feeling the need to urinate ) which was explained as a menopausal symptom but now I think it was the beginning of the instability. As soon as the anxiety set in I was hyperactive, hyper alert and lost all appetite, lost 8 kilos, lack of emotion, no sleep etc. MH thinks this is hypersensitivity and not a late onset withdrawal ! I'm not so sure I agree with him. It still remains a question in my mind - what happened to me last MAY23? Was it life stress that brought on sensitisation or was it withdrawal? I did come up with one variable that bares some thinking about. When I tapered from from 50 to 25, I used a compounding pharmacist so the scripts were 48mg then 46mg and so forth but when I got to the 25mg I celebrated the fact that I no longer needed to pay for a compounding script. I could just cut my scored 50mg tablet in half. After 4 years of complete wellness I was probably quite relaxed about this and broke the pill as best I could , taking the other half the next morning. Maybe this caused destabilisation? Still taking the same amount over 48 hours but maybe that is not accurate enough ? Any thoughts appreciated. Whatever this "sensitisation" is, my overall impression or HOPE is that healing does indeed happen. Neuroplasticity is a known science and people heal from brain injury. I'm still sitting on my 25mg of Zoloft and 15mg of mirtazapine. I have probably reached the best baseline I'll ever reach. I fear tapering even by micro amounts after everything Ive been through and worry about further damage to my system . I also fear holding where I am because of increased dependency on mirtazapine and .....fear of the future. My feeling world at present, though better than it was, is still pretty terrible and far from my normal. 2003 Paxil - I can't remember the dose but I think it was 10mg experienced horrendous akathisia when starting for 3 weeks then okay 2004. slow reduction to 0 , withdrawal symptoms, so reinstated to 10mg - again horrendous Akathisia which lasted 5 weeks. 2005 - attempted to slowly taper off and again Terrible withdrawal so reinstated and endured akathisia until it settled. Psychiatrist changed me over to Zoloft so that I could have another baby. No adverse reaction with the switch except terrible diorreah 2006 tried once more to come off Zoloft carefully with terrible results. reinstated Zoloft and used 2.5 mg of zyprexa to help Akathisia- horrid episode lasted 3 months with some akathisia and severe depression which I’d never had before. Withdrawal from zyprexa ( depression) 2008 50 mg of Zoloft then after 6 months I tapered to 25 mg and decided to stay there . 2012 stress event and peri menopause acute anxiety which led to, updosing to 125 mg, tortuous symptoms(akathisia) then stabilized, back to 50 mg- 2014 - same again down to 25 with Akathisia on updosing and a hospital visit. 2019 - 2023 Zoloft tapering by 2 mg linear taper every 3 months started at 50 mg, got to 25 mg around January 2023. June 2023- health anxiety and what feels like withdrawal again. Insomnia, anxiety, blunted good feelings. 2023 June- Zyprexa taken twice, ativan 1 mg taken once, temazepan infrequent but 15- 18th of June used for 4 nights 2023 August - introduced 7.5 mg of mirtazapine for 12 days then 15mg of mirtazapine. Sleep now ok but daily life depression, anhedonia, agitation and a weird feeling of being sedate and anxious at the same time. Currently holding. My introduction thread: Jaffa: Possibly late onset withdrawal Link to comment
wantrelief Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Hi @Jaffa, Thank you for all that you shared, Jaffa. Although nothing is certain by any means, it makes sense to me that our multiple attempts at coming off of an AD, however slow, did cause some sort of hypersensitivity. It appears that perhaps these attempts have sensitized us to stress as we both experienced withdrawal symptoms when encountering stressful circumstances. In my case I experienced this multiple times so the term "hypersensitivity" rings true. It is scary that this last time we were still sensitive despite being on a stable dose and feeling quite well for a while - me for one year and you for four - yet still experienced awful withdrawal symptoms. However, I have the same hope as you - that we may have this hypersensitivity injury but we can still heal, that neuroplasticity can still occur. It just doesn't make sense to me that we wouldn't be able to heal from this. There are folks who have healed from all sorts of injuries due to psych drugs so why would our circumstances be any different? That being said, I too feel quite a lot of fear around all of this including the fear that perhaps this injury is too deep. But when I think through my options, the only thing that makes sense to me is to continue on this path of coming off what caused this injury in the first place and to then hopefully heal. It is all very frightening though, especially when I too feel so far from myself and everyday is an endurance test. I am very grateful we can share our journeys with one another having come into this under such similar circumstances. It helps me feel less alone which means the world to me. 💖 1 -1/06 - 3/07 Cymbalta. Fast taper (essentially CT); withdrawal symptoms after 4 mos (didn't realize was WD) -10/07: 100 mg Zoloft; 1 mg Klonopin - tapered off Klonopin after 4 mos. Several unsuccessful slow tapers of Zoloft; went up and down in dose a lot -Spring 2013 back on 1 mg Klonopin to counter WD symptoms; switched over 5-6 mos from Zoloft to 35 mg citalopram -Two attempts at slow tapering citalopram, always increased dose due to WD; also increased Klonopin to 1.25 mg in 2014, then to 1.5 mg in 2015 -8/17-9/17: After holding one year at 20 mg, feeling withdrawal symptoms due to stress - slowly increased to 25 mg. No change in symptoms after 6 months (? tolerance ?) - decided to start citalopram taper February 2018 (still on Klonopin 1.5 mg). Supplements: fish oil; magnesium; vitamin D3; curcumin Citalopram taper: 2/2018 - 12/2019: 25 mg - 11.03 mg I 2020: 10.89 mg - 7.9 mg I 2021: 7.8 mg - 5.26 mg I 2022: 5.2 mg - 3.36 mg I 2023: 3.3 mg - 1.47 mg 2024: 1/5/24: 1.44 mg; 1/19/24: 1.40 mg; 1/26/24: 1.37 mg; 2/2/24: 1.34 mg; 2/9/24: 1.31 mg; 2/23/24: 1.28 mg; 3/1/24: 1.25 mg; 3/8/24: 1.22 mg; 3/15/24: 1.19 mg; 3/29/24: 1.17 mg; 4/5/24: 1.14 mg; 4/13/24: 1.11 mg; 4/20/24: 1.09 mg; 4/27/24: 1.06 mg Link to comment
Jaffa Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 3 hours ago, wantrelief said: me for one year and you for four - yet still I tapered from 50 to 25 over 4 years and held at 25 . I was on 25 for 9 months when the withdrawal / hypersensitivity started with stress OR the bladder irritation was the beginning of the episode which then became stress from disturbed sleep, thyroid issue and other life stress. I'm now wondering whether stress actually brought on the episode or if the destabilisation was clicking in regardless of stress? Was the bladder symptom the first symptom? Then came the anxiety and the rest. Also wondering if the cutting of 50 mg pill into 25 ( unequal portions) may have triggered the instability? I was still getting 50mg over the 48 hours so I would think not. I'm wondering what Alto or the moderators might have to say about this. 3 hours ago, wantrelief said: It just doesn't make sense to me that we wouldn't be able to heal from this. There are folks who have healed from all sorts of injuries due to psych drugs so why would our circumstances be any different? YES ! ABSOLUTELY! 3 hours ago, wantrelief said: I am very grateful we can share our journeys with one another having come into this under such similar circumstances. It helps me feel less alone which means the world to me. 💖 Me too @wantrelief. I wish we lived near to each other and could share tea and walk each other through this in the physical realm. Wouldn't that be amazing! If I was rich I would open a Withdrawal House. It would be near the sea, somewhere warm with a beautiful sensory garden. 1 2003 Paxil - I can't remember the dose but I think it was 10mg experienced horrendous akathisia when starting for 3 weeks then okay 2004. slow reduction to 0 , withdrawal symptoms, so reinstated to 10mg - again horrendous Akathisia which lasted 5 weeks. 2005 - attempted to slowly taper off and again Terrible withdrawal so reinstated and endured akathisia until it settled. Psychiatrist changed me over to Zoloft so that I could have another baby. No adverse reaction with the switch except terrible diorreah 2006 tried once more to come off Zoloft carefully with terrible results. reinstated Zoloft and used 2.5 mg of zyprexa to help Akathisia- horrid episode lasted 3 months with some akathisia and severe depression which I’d never had before. Withdrawal from zyprexa ( depression) 2008 50 mg of Zoloft then after 6 months I tapered to 25 mg and decided to stay there . 2012 stress event and peri menopause acute anxiety which led to, updosing to 125 mg, tortuous symptoms(akathisia) then stabilized, back to 50 mg- 2014 - same again down to 25 with Akathisia on updosing and a hospital visit. 2019 - 2023 Zoloft tapering by 2 mg linear taper every 3 months started at 50 mg, got to 25 mg around January 2023. June 2023- health anxiety and what feels like withdrawal again. Insomnia, anxiety, blunted good feelings. 2023 June- Zyprexa taken twice, ativan 1 mg taken once, temazepan infrequent but 15- 18th of June used for 4 nights 2023 August - introduced 7.5 mg of mirtazapine for 12 days then 15mg of mirtazapine. Sleep now ok but daily life depression, anhedonia, agitation and a weird feeling of being sedate and anxious at the same time. Currently holding. My introduction thread: Jaffa: Possibly late onset withdrawal Link to comment
wantrelief Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 2 hours ago, Jaffa said: I tapered from 50 to 25 over 4 years and held at 25 . I was on 25 for 9 months when the withdrawal / hypersensitivity started Oh right, sorry I got that mixed up. 2 hours ago, Jaffa said: the withdrawal / hypersensitivity started with stress OR the bladder irritation was the beginning of the episode which then became stress from disturbed sleep, thyroid issue and other life stress. I'm now wondering whether stress actually brought on the episode or if the destabilisation was clicking in regardless of stress? Was the bladder symptom the first symptom? Then came the anxiety and the rest. It is so hard to know but either way it does seem like stress was a factor that kicked this all off for you. 2 hours ago, Jaffa said: Also wondering if the cutting of 50 mg pill into 25 ( unequal portions) may have triggered the instability? I was still getting 50mg over the 48 hours so I would think not. I don't know for sure but I am guessing this didn't trigger the instability as it would have been close enough. 2 hours ago, Jaffa said: YES ! ABSOLUTELY! Oh I am so glad you also feel this way about our chances of healing.....it helps to hear. I have such hope we can but the symptoms I experience include a pretty much non-stop feeling of fear and intrusive thoughts of doubt. 2 hours ago, Jaffa said: I wish we lived near to each other and could share tea and walk each other through this in the physical realm. Wouldn't that be amazing! It would indeed be such a comfort to be in the physical realm with one another and provide support so when the doubts/fears creep in, we could provide that in person support that is so lacking in this experience. I am grateful that at least we've got this space to help one another through this. -1/06 - 3/07 Cymbalta. Fast taper (essentially CT); withdrawal symptoms after 4 mos (didn't realize was WD) -10/07: 100 mg Zoloft; 1 mg Klonopin - tapered off Klonopin after 4 mos. Several unsuccessful slow tapers of Zoloft; went up and down in dose a lot -Spring 2013 back on 1 mg Klonopin to counter WD symptoms; switched over 5-6 mos from Zoloft to 35 mg citalopram -Two attempts at slow tapering citalopram, always increased dose due to WD; also increased Klonopin to 1.25 mg in 2014, then to 1.5 mg in 2015 -8/17-9/17: After holding one year at 20 mg, feeling withdrawal symptoms due to stress - slowly increased to 25 mg. No change in symptoms after 6 months (? tolerance ?) - decided to start citalopram taper February 2018 (still on Klonopin 1.5 mg). Supplements: fish oil; magnesium; vitamin D3; curcumin Citalopram taper: 2/2018 - 12/2019: 25 mg - 11.03 mg I 2020: 10.89 mg - 7.9 mg I 2021: 7.8 mg - 5.26 mg I 2022: 5.2 mg - 3.36 mg I 2023: 3.3 mg - 1.47 mg 2024: 1/5/24: 1.44 mg; 1/19/24: 1.40 mg; 1/26/24: 1.37 mg; 2/2/24: 1.34 mg; 2/9/24: 1.31 mg; 2/23/24: 1.28 mg; 3/1/24: 1.25 mg; 3/8/24: 1.22 mg; 3/15/24: 1.19 mg; 3/29/24: 1.17 mg; 4/5/24: 1.14 mg; 4/13/24: 1.11 mg; 4/20/24: 1.09 mg; 4/27/24: 1.06 mg Link to comment
Jaffa Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 Dear Mods and/or Alto if she is around occasionally, Important consideration about me becoming destabilised at 25mg of Zoloft despite the slower than slow taper from 50mg. As discussed in my thread, I experienced no withdrawal symptoms at all on my way down to 25mg. I decided to stay at 25mg for life (harm reduction approach) but 9 months at 25mg withdrawal or destabilisation arrived, possibly prompted by some life stress. The other possibility is that bladder sensitivity (which came before the life stress) that saw me needing to frequently pee at night, was the beginning of destabilisation/withdrawal . Many have complained of an overactive bladder as a symptom of withdrawal. That said it could have been related to menopause. My query is :- could the pill cutting have caused the eventual destabilisation? Up until pill cutting I was using a compounded pharmacist so my daily amounts were precise. Added to that I did change brands in the last month before the episode started. Feeling so well and normal for 4 years before this, I possibly also forgot a dose very occasionally and was enjoying alcohol a few nights a week with some celebratory extras before the week this started. With the half life of Zoloft being 22-36 hours I'm not sure that breaking the pill (50mg in half) would be a problem given that I take the other half the next day and would therefore be getting 50mg over 48 hours. As the dose is lowered however, those daily differences might have been enough to shake things up so to speak. To be clear, the smallest dose of Zoloft available in Australia is 50mg, hence the cutting. Even with a pill cutter the dose would be at best 35 one day 15 the next. So........any thoughts appreciated. Also wondering if I should taper off Zoloft 25mg slowly ( been on for 20 years) or taper first off mirtazapine 15mg ( been on 8 months) first? Are there any others here who have had to taper off this combo. Sincere thanks Jaffa 2003 Paxil - I can't remember the dose but I think it was 10mg experienced horrendous akathisia when starting for 3 weeks then okay 2004. slow reduction to 0 , withdrawal symptoms, so reinstated to 10mg - again horrendous Akathisia which lasted 5 weeks. 2005 - attempted to slowly taper off and again Terrible withdrawal so reinstated and endured akathisia until it settled. Psychiatrist changed me over to Zoloft so that I could have another baby. No adverse reaction with the switch except terrible diorreah 2006 tried once more to come off Zoloft carefully with terrible results. reinstated Zoloft and used 2.5 mg of zyprexa to help Akathisia- horrid episode lasted 3 months with some akathisia and severe depression which I’d never had before. Withdrawal from zyprexa ( depression) 2008 50 mg of Zoloft then after 6 months I tapered to 25 mg and decided to stay there . 2012 stress event and peri menopause acute anxiety which led to, updosing to 125 mg, tortuous symptoms(akathisia) then stabilized, back to 50 mg- 2014 - same again down to 25 with Akathisia on updosing and a hospital visit. 2019 - 2023 Zoloft tapering by 2 mg linear taper every 3 months started at 50 mg, got to 25 mg around January 2023. June 2023- health anxiety and what feels like withdrawal again. Insomnia, anxiety, blunted good feelings. 2023 June- Zyprexa taken twice, ativan 1 mg taken once, temazepan infrequent but 15- 18th of June used for 4 nights 2023 August - introduced 7.5 mg of mirtazapine for 12 days then 15mg of mirtazapine. Sleep now ok but daily life depression, anhedonia, agitation and a weird feeling of being sedate and anxious at the same time. Currently holding. My introduction thread: Jaffa: Possibly late onset withdrawal Link to comment
Jaffa Posted March 7 Author Share Posted March 7 @arbor Could you please respond to my above post or pass it on to another mod. I'm feeling really unwell today and would love a response or some words of encouragement. Sincerely 2003 Paxil - I can't remember the dose but I think it was 10mg experienced horrendous akathisia when starting for 3 weeks then okay 2004. slow reduction to 0 , withdrawal symptoms, so reinstated to 10mg - again horrendous Akathisia which lasted 5 weeks. 2005 - attempted to slowly taper off and again Terrible withdrawal so reinstated and endured akathisia until it settled. Psychiatrist changed me over to Zoloft so that I could have another baby. No adverse reaction with the switch except terrible diorreah 2006 tried once more to come off Zoloft carefully with terrible results. reinstated Zoloft and used 2.5 mg of zyprexa to help Akathisia- horrid episode lasted 3 months with some akathisia and severe depression which I’d never had before. Withdrawal from zyprexa ( depression) 2008 50 mg of Zoloft then after 6 months I tapered to 25 mg and decided to stay there . 2012 stress event and peri menopause acute anxiety which led to, updosing to 125 mg, tortuous symptoms(akathisia) then stabilized, back to 50 mg- 2014 - same again down to 25 with Akathisia on updosing and a hospital visit. 2019 - 2023 Zoloft tapering by 2 mg linear taper every 3 months started at 50 mg, got to 25 mg around January 2023. June 2023- health anxiety and what feels like withdrawal again. Insomnia, anxiety, blunted good feelings. 2023 June- Zyprexa taken twice, ativan 1 mg taken once, temazepan infrequent but 15- 18th of June used for 4 nights 2023 August - introduced 7.5 mg of mirtazapine for 12 days then 15mg of mirtazapine. Sleep now ok but daily life depression, anhedonia, agitation and a weird feeling of being sedate and anxious at the same time. Currently holding. My introduction thread: Jaffa: Possibly late onset withdrawal Link to comment
Jaffa Posted March 17 Author Share Posted March 17 Today I struggled with severe depression. I forced myself to go out and participate in a morning tea gathering. I felt dreadful the whole time. I was fighting back the tears and deep breathing my way through most of the day till about 2:30 pm. I kept myself busy all the morning with shopping and stuff so that I wouldn't collapse into a heap. I have been feeling terrible at this level for the past two weeks. Perhaps the virus set this off. Its hard to figure out whats going on. I think Alto was right when she said that using mirt to cope with the withdrawal from Zoloft was dumb. It feels like the mirt is causing depression but it could be the poop out of the Zoloft and in actual fact the mirt may be making the Zoloft symptoms more bearable. Maybe if I remove the mirt I will feel worse? It's a miracle that I manage to work on Thursday and Friday. When my mind is occupied it helps me move through time without too much despair. I have been operating like this for months and months, just surviving. It became clear to me today that I have to start tapering off this medication. I'm terrified after everything Iv'e been through but I'm also terrified to just continue as I am imprisoned by this medication and how it makes me feel and not feel. I feel completely overwhelmed by the task ahead. I'm terrified of feeling worse than I do. I'm terrified of the acute loneliness of the journey. I'm going to go slow but it feels like it will take years and then I have to recover. Such a long hard journey. I get my liquid Zoloft next Friday. I will stay with 25mg of that and also get a script for liquid mirtazapine which I will start carefully tapering FIRST until I get to 7.5mg. Then once stable there I will taper the Zoloft and finally the remaining mirt. 2003 Paxil - I can't remember the dose but I think it was 10mg experienced horrendous akathisia when starting for 3 weeks then okay 2004. slow reduction to 0 , withdrawal symptoms, so reinstated to 10mg - again horrendous Akathisia which lasted 5 weeks. 2005 - attempted to slowly taper off and again Terrible withdrawal so reinstated and endured akathisia until it settled. Psychiatrist changed me over to Zoloft so that I could have another baby. No adverse reaction with the switch except terrible diorreah 2006 tried once more to come off Zoloft carefully with terrible results. reinstated Zoloft and used 2.5 mg of zyprexa to help Akathisia- horrid episode lasted 3 months with some akathisia and severe depression which I’d never had before. Withdrawal from zyprexa ( depression) 2008 50 mg of Zoloft then after 6 months I tapered to 25 mg and decided to stay there . 2012 stress event and peri menopause acute anxiety which led to, updosing to 125 mg, tortuous symptoms(akathisia) then stabilized, back to 50 mg- 2014 - same again down to 25 with Akathisia on updosing and a hospital visit. 2019 - 2023 Zoloft tapering by 2 mg linear taper every 3 months started at 50 mg, got to 25 mg around January 2023. June 2023- health anxiety and what feels like withdrawal again. Insomnia, anxiety, blunted good feelings. 2023 June- Zyprexa taken twice, ativan 1 mg taken once, temazepan infrequent but 15- 18th of June used for 4 nights 2023 August - introduced 7.5 mg of mirtazapine for 12 days then 15mg of mirtazapine. Sleep now ok but daily life depression, anhedonia, agitation and a weird feeling of being sedate and anxious at the same time. Currently holding. My introduction thread: Jaffa: Possibly late onset withdrawal Link to comment
Jaffa Posted March 22 Author Share Posted March 22 Friday 22/3/24 Worked the last two days . Today I barely managed. I was teary and had lots of neurosadness , depression, making me feel hopeless and full of despair. Yesterday was a little better but still really difficult. I notice this odd feeling of urgency. It's like I'm ready to run but the race never starts. It's relentless and only gets a bit better as evening approaches. While I try to force myself to stay mindful of my present occupation, its hard not to spiral down into thoughts of doom and constantly questioning what to do next... with this terrible situation I find myself in. So hard and its day after day after day. Occasionally I have a better day and suddenly feel optimistic that the challenges ahead of me are achievable. Maybe I can taper safely off these drugs and not get akathisia. Most of the time though, I feel like Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane, terrified of what's ahead and I doubt my ability to cope and survive. I am seeing a GP tomorrow to get a script for compounded 25mg of Zoloft because the stupid psychiatrist I saw last week gave me the incorrect script. I know the pill cutting is not giving me even amounts of Zoloft each day and I wonder if this is what started my withdrawal last May. I have been holding at 15mg of mirtazapine now for 8 months and still feel dreadful. The only thing I can think to try next is the 25mg compounded script. Maybe the exact dose each day will help me reach a better baseline ?? If not then I will start tapering the mirt first to 7.5 and then, depending on how I feel, i'll taper the Zoloft. 2003 Paxil - I can't remember the dose but I think it was 10mg experienced horrendous akathisia when starting for 3 weeks then okay 2004. slow reduction to 0 , withdrawal symptoms, so reinstated to 10mg - again horrendous Akathisia which lasted 5 weeks. 2005 - attempted to slowly taper off and again Terrible withdrawal so reinstated and endured akathisia until it settled. Psychiatrist changed me over to Zoloft so that I could have another baby. No adverse reaction with the switch except terrible diorreah 2006 tried once more to come off Zoloft carefully with terrible results. reinstated Zoloft and used 2.5 mg of zyprexa to help Akathisia- horrid episode lasted 3 months with some akathisia and severe depression which I’d never had before. Withdrawal from zyprexa ( depression) 2008 50 mg of Zoloft then after 6 months I tapered to 25 mg and decided to stay there . 2012 stress event and peri menopause acute anxiety which led to, updosing to 125 mg, tortuous symptoms(akathisia) then stabilized, back to 50 mg- 2014 - same again down to 25 with Akathisia on updosing and a hospital visit. 2019 - 2023 Zoloft tapering by 2 mg linear taper every 3 months started at 50 mg, got to 25 mg around January 2023. June 2023- health anxiety and what feels like withdrawal again. Insomnia, anxiety, blunted good feelings. 2023 June- Zyprexa taken twice, ativan 1 mg taken once, temazepan infrequent but 15- 18th of June used for 4 nights 2023 August - introduced 7.5 mg of mirtazapine for 12 days then 15mg of mirtazapine. Sleep now ok but daily life depression, anhedonia, agitation and a weird feeling of being sedate and anxious at the same time. Currently holding. My introduction thread: Jaffa: Possibly late onset withdrawal Link to comment
wantrelief Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Hi @Jaffa, I relate to much of what you are feeling, including feeling terrified of what may be ahead. I work hard not to let those "what if" thoughts take over but it is really hard at times. It is so difficult to cope when the symptoms are relentless as we are both experiencing....the symptoms can feel all encompassing. That being said, you are coping as well as you can and have a good plan in place. I hope the transition to the liquid Zoloft goes well and that you can find more stability with this method. I wanted to thank you for recommending that Tara Brach meditation. I listened to it the other morning when I woke up in early morning hours and it helped calm me down. I am thinking of you and am hoping that things are feeling lighter than they were on Friday. Hang in there, Jaffa. -1/06 - 3/07 Cymbalta. Fast taper (essentially CT); withdrawal symptoms after 4 mos (didn't realize was WD) -10/07: 100 mg Zoloft; 1 mg Klonopin - tapered off Klonopin after 4 mos. Several unsuccessful slow tapers of Zoloft; went up and down in dose a lot -Spring 2013 back on 1 mg Klonopin to counter WD symptoms; switched over 5-6 mos from Zoloft to 35 mg citalopram -Two attempts at slow tapering citalopram, always increased dose due to WD; also increased Klonopin to 1.25 mg in 2014, then to 1.5 mg in 2015 -8/17-9/17: After holding one year at 20 mg, feeling withdrawal symptoms due to stress - slowly increased to 25 mg. No change in symptoms after 6 months (? tolerance ?) - decided to start citalopram taper February 2018 (still on Klonopin 1.5 mg). Supplements: fish oil; magnesium; vitamin D3; curcumin Citalopram taper: 2/2018 - 12/2019: 25 mg - 11.03 mg I 2020: 10.89 mg - 7.9 mg I 2021: 7.8 mg - 5.26 mg I 2022: 5.2 mg - 3.36 mg I 2023: 3.3 mg - 1.47 mg 2024: 1/5/24: 1.44 mg; 1/19/24: 1.40 mg; 1/26/24: 1.37 mg; 2/2/24: 1.34 mg; 2/9/24: 1.31 mg; 2/23/24: 1.28 mg; 3/1/24: 1.25 mg; 3/8/24: 1.22 mg; 3/15/24: 1.19 mg; 3/29/24: 1.17 mg; 4/5/24: 1.14 mg; 4/13/24: 1.11 mg; 4/20/24: 1.09 mg; 4/27/24: 1.06 mg Link to comment
Moderator FireflyFyte Posted March 27 Moderator Share Posted March 27 On 3/6/2024 at 11:14 PM, Jaffa said: To be clear, the smallest dose of Zoloft available in Australia is 50mg, hence the cutting. Even with a pill cutter the dose would be at best 35 one day 15 the next. So........any thoughts appreciated. This change in dose would most likely result in de-stabilization. I would look into getting a scale so you can ensure an even dose daily or, as it seems like you might be doing, transition over to the liquid version. Pre- October 2022: Wellbutrin, Escitalopram, Citalopram, Sertraline, Adderall IR, Vyvanse, Propranolol, Buspar, Ativan, and Latuda Oct 13, 2022 - Oct 24, 2022 and Oct 31, 2022 - Present: Zyprexa (2.5 mg). Jan 14, 2023 -> Began transition to liquid suspension. Jan 29, 2023 = 2.375mg -> Feb 12, 2023 = 2.25mg -> Feb 27, 2023 = 2.14mg -> Mar 12, 2023 = 2.025mg -> Mar 27, 2023 = 1.93mg -> Apr 10, 2023 = 1.82mg -> Apr 23, 2023 = 1.74mg -> May 7, 2023 = 1.64mg -> May 21, 2023 = 1.56mg -> June 4, 2023 = 1.48mg -> June 19, 2023 = 1.4mg -> July 2, 2023 = 1.33mg -> July 16, 2023 = 1.26mg -> July 31, 2023 = 1.2mg -> Aug 13, 2023 = 1.14mg -> Aug 27, 2023 = 1.08mg -> Sep 13, 2023 = 1.02mg -> Jan 22, 2024 = 0.97mg -> Feb 4, 2024 = 0.92mg -> Feb 19, 2024 = 0.87mg -> Mar 3, 2024 = 0.83mg -> Mar 17, 2024 = 0.78mg -> Mar 31, 2024 = 0.74mg -> Apr 14, 2023 = 0.7mg Oct 14, 2022 - Present: Prozac (40mg) upped from 20mg on Nov 1, 2022. Oct 31, 2022 - Present: Gabapentin (300mg 3x day) -> May 3, 2023 = 300mg 2x day -> Oct 1, 2023 = 570mg -> Oct 15, 2023 = 540mg -> Oct 29, 2023 = 510mg -> Nov 13, 2023 = 484mg -> Nov 27, 2023 = 460mg -> Dec 9, 2023 = 436mg -> Dec 24, 2023 = 414mg -> Jan 7, 2024 = 400mg Link to comment
Jaffa Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 19 hours ago, FireflyFyte said: This change in dose would most likely result in de-stabilization. I would look into getting a scale so you can ensure an even dose daily or, as it seems like you might be doing, transition over to the liquid version. Thankyou for getting back to me. Much appreciated. I have to go to Sydney to look after my Mum over Easter so I just got a compounding pharmacist to make a couple of months worth of 25mg capsules. This should be enough time for me to stabilise if indeed the cutting 50mg pill is causing problems. I introduced 15mg of mirtazapine 8 months ago and while its helped with the hyperactivity , hyper alertness, sleep and much needed weight gain it has brought on other horrible symptoms. So possibly the cutting of the 50 mg pill was what led to my destabilisation last May 23, even though the symptoms came on 9 months after the pill cutting began? Throw in me possibly missing the odd dose and enjoying a few glasses of wine and then some significant life stress and whoosh - the switch was turned on. To have experienced that level of suffering while still at 25mg made me feel terrified to taper any further. I waited 9 weeks to see if improvements would come but I seemed to be getting worse which made me introduce the mirt. If I would have tapered the Zoloft further I think it would have resulted in akathisia. As it was I felt like I was one step away from akathisia which Ive had in the past when I updated the Zoloft after experiencing withdrawal. Its all very worrying and I'm struggling with what to do next. I'll wait and see if anything gets better with the compounded 25mg script. After that, if there are improvements or not, I am lost as to whether to start the Zoloft taper of the mirt taper. I have dreadful feelings in the morning when I wake up. Its like a gut wrenching dread that improves once I get up and move around. I think this is an adverse reaction to the mirt. The rest of the day I feel very neutral at best, otherwise a crying mess, and I'm better in the evening. Many times I wonder if I'm even a safe candidate for tapering off psych meds due to the many akathisia episodes when reinstating/updosing. Akathisia is not something I could live through if its prolonged. I was thinking today that maybe I should talk to a neurologist and get na MRI on my poor brain. What do you think @FireflyFyte? 2003 Paxil - I can't remember the dose but I think it was 10mg experienced horrendous akathisia when starting for 3 weeks then okay 2004. slow reduction to 0 , withdrawal symptoms, so reinstated to 10mg - again horrendous Akathisia which lasted 5 weeks. 2005 - attempted to slowly taper off and again Terrible withdrawal so reinstated and endured akathisia until it settled. Psychiatrist changed me over to Zoloft so that I could have another baby. No adverse reaction with the switch except terrible diorreah 2006 tried once more to come off Zoloft carefully with terrible results. reinstated Zoloft and used 2.5 mg of zyprexa to help Akathisia- horrid episode lasted 3 months with some akathisia and severe depression which I’d never had before. Withdrawal from zyprexa ( depression) 2008 50 mg of Zoloft then after 6 months I tapered to 25 mg and decided to stay there . 2012 stress event and peri menopause acute anxiety which led to, updosing to 125 mg, tortuous symptoms(akathisia) then stabilized, back to 50 mg- 2014 - same again down to 25 with Akathisia on updosing and a hospital visit. 2019 - 2023 Zoloft tapering by 2 mg linear taper every 3 months started at 50 mg, got to 25 mg around January 2023. June 2023- health anxiety and what feels like withdrawal again. Insomnia, anxiety, blunted good feelings. 2023 June- Zyprexa taken twice, ativan 1 mg taken once, temazepan infrequent but 15- 18th of June used for 4 nights 2023 August - introduced 7.5 mg of mirtazapine for 12 days then 15mg of mirtazapine. Sleep now ok but daily life depression, anhedonia, agitation and a weird feeling of being sedate and anxious at the same time. Currently holding. My introduction thread: Jaffa: Possibly late onset withdrawal Link to comment
Jaffa Posted March 28 Author Share Posted March 28 On 3/24/2024 at 3:36 PM, wantrelief said: I wanted to thank you for recommending that Tara Brach meditation. I listened to it the other morning when I woke up in early morning hours and it helped calm me down. Hello @wantrelief, I hope you are getting through your days with some moments that feel at least ok ish? It's all relative but maybe a nice enjoyable meal or a pleasant walk in nature or a moment of peace while meditating. I also like this meditation by Tara Brach. Vidyamala Burch also does a lovely live meditation on Tuesday nights England time for people suffering from chronic pain. That's us yes! I find her very soothing and compassionate. I haven't done one of her meditations for a while but must get back into it. The awful psychiatrist I last saw didn't give me the correct script for liquid Zoloft and did not return my three phone calls. I saw a new Gp and decided after some consideration, to just get some 25mg compounded capsules instead. Im wondering if cutting the 50mg in half and having slightly uneven amounts over the two days with each pill, has been causing problems with me reaching a better baseline. Ill give this a month and assess and then decide what to do next. The worst symptoms I have at the moment are horrid feelings on waking, comatose sleep at night which involves bad dreams or awful vivid dreams, feeling neutral at best during the day if Im not crying and depressed and frightened by how bad I feel and ear worms or an overactive mind that needs to be occupied all the time. Its like Im plugged into some battery. I find yoga, healthy diet (not easy when there is chocolate all over the place pre Easter) meditation and sometimes work -i'm a massage therapist in a calm environment, all helps. But most of the time I feel terrible. Its hard because it doesn't shift . Its been like this for eight months worse in the beginning but only mild improvements. I think Alto was right when she said that using mirt to deal with the symptoms caused by Zoloft was not a good idea. Anyway, Im heading to Sydney to put mum into nursing home next Monday. It will be hard. I keep saying to myself "we can do hard things". Sending love your way and hoping you are managing ok and have some company over easter. Jaffa xx 1 2003 Paxil - I can't remember the dose but I think it was 10mg experienced horrendous akathisia when starting for 3 weeks then okay 2004. slow reduction to 0 , withdrawal symptoms, so reinstated to 10mg - again horrendous Akathisia which lasted 5 weeks. 2005 - attempted to slowly taper off and again Terrible withdrawal so reinstated and endured akathisia until it settled. Psychiatrist changed me over to Zoloft so that I could have another baby. No adverse reaction with the switch except terrible diorreah 2006 tried once more to come off Zoloft carefully with terrible results. reinstated Zoloft and used 2.5 mg of zyprexa to help Akathisia- horrid episode lasted 3 months with some akathisia and severe depression which I’d never had before. Withdrawal from zyprexa ( depression) 2008 50 mg of Zoloft then after 6 months I tapered to 25 mg and decided to stay there . 2012 stress event and peri menopause acute anxiety which led to, updosing to 125 mg, tortuous symptoms(akathisia) then stabilized, back to 50 mg- 2014 - same again down to 25 with Akathisia on updosing and a hospital visit. 2019 - 2023 Zoloft tapering by 2 mg linear taper every 3 months started at 50 mg, got to 25 mg around January 2023. June 2023- health anxiety and what feels like withdrawal again. Insomnia, anxiety, blunted good feelings. 2023 June- Zyprexa taken twice, ativan 1 mg taken once, temazepan infrequent but 15- 18th of June used for 4 nights 2023 August - introduced 7.5 mg of mirtazapine for 12 days then 15mg of mirtazapine. Sleep now ok but daily life depression, anhedonia, agitation and a weird feeling of being sedate and anxious at the same time. Currently holding. My introduction thread: Jaffa: Possibly late onset withdrawal Link to comment
Moderator FireflyFyte Posted March 28 Moderator Share Posted March 28 6 hours ago, Jaffa said: I was thinking today that maybe I should talk to a neurologist and get na MRI on my poor brain. You can talk to a neurologist but the effects of withdrawals do not present on MRIs. 5 hours ago, Jaffa said: I saw a new Gp and decided after some consideration, to just get some 25mg compounded capsules instead. Great, taking a consistent dose should help you stabilize. 1 Pre- October 2022: Wellbutrin, Escitalopram, Citalopram, Sertraline, Adderall IR, Vyvanse, Propranolol, Buspar, Ativan, and Latuda Oct 13, 2022 - Oct 24, 2022 and Oct 31, 2022 - Present: Zyprexa (2.5 mg). Jan 14, 2023 -> Began transition to liquid suspension. Jan 29, 2023 = 2.375mg -> Feb 12, 2023 = 2.25mg -> Feb 27, 2023 = 2.14mg -> Mar 12, 2023 = 2.025mg -> Mar 27, 2023 = 1.93mg -> Apr 10, 2023 = 1.82mg -> Apr 23, 2023 = 1.74mg -> May 7, 2023 = 1.64mg -> May 21, 2023 = 1.56mg -> June 4, 2023 = 1.48mg -> June 19, 2023 = 1.4mg -> July 2, 2023 = 1.33mg -> July 16, 2023 = 1.26mg -> July 31, 2023 = 1.2mg -> Aug 13, 2023 = 1.14mg -> Aug 27, 2023 = 1.08mg -> Sep 13, 2023 = 1.02mg -> Jan 22, 2024 = 0.97mg -> Feb 4, 2024 = 0.92mg -> Feb 19, 2024 = 0.87mg -> Mar 3, 2024 = 0.83mg -> Mar 17, 2024 = 0.78mg -> Mar 31, 2024 = 0.74mg -> Apr 14, 2023 = 0.7mg Oct 14, 2022 - Present: Prozac (40mg) upped from 20mg on Nov 1, 2022. Oct 31, 2022 - Present: Gabapentin (300mg 3x day) -> May 3, 2023 = 300mg 2x day -> Oct 1, 2023 = 570mg -> Oct 15, 2023 = 540mg -> Oct 29, 2023 = 510mg -> Nov 13, 2023 = 484mg -> Nov 27, 2023 = 460mg -> Dec 9, 2023 = 436mg -> Dec 24, 2023 = 414mg -> Jan 7, 2024 = 400mg Link to comment
Jaffa Posted April 3 Author Share Posted April 3 @FireflyFyte Thankyou for responding 🙏🏻 1 2003 Paxil - I can't remember the dose but I think it was 10mg experienced horrendous akathisia when starting for 3 weeks then okay 2004. slow reduction to 0 , withdrawal symptoms, so reinstated to 10mg - again horrendous Akathisia which lasted 5 weeks. 2005 - attempted to slowly taper off and again Terrible withdrawal so reinstated and endured akathisia until it settled. Psychiatrist changed me over to Zoloft so that I could have another baby. No adverse reaction with the switch except terrible diorreah 2006 tried once more to come off Zoloft carefully with terrible results. reinstated Zoloft and used 2.5 mg of zyprexa to help Akathisia- horrid episode lasted 3 months with some akathisia and severe depression which I’d never had before. Withdrawal from zyprexa ( depression) 2008 50 mg of Zoloft then after 6 months I tapered to 25 mg and decided to stay there . 2012 stress event and peri menopause acute anxiety which led to, updosing to 125 mg, tortuous symptoms(akathisia) then stabilized, back to 50 mg- 2014 - same again down to 25 with Akathisia on updosing and a hospital visit. 2019 - 2023 Zoloft tapering by 2 mg linear taper every 3 months started at 50 mg, got to 25 mg around January 2023. June 2023- health anxiety and what feels like withdrawal again. Insomnia, anxiety, blunted good feelings. 2023 June- Zyprexa taken twice, ativan 1 mg taken once, temazepan infrequent but 15- 18th of June used for 4 nights 2023 August - introduced 7.5 mg of mirtazapine for 12 days then 15mg of mirtazapine. Sleep now ok but daily life depression, anhedonia, agitation and a weird feeling of being sedate and anxious at the same time. Currently holding. My introduction thread: Jaffa: Possibly late onset withdrawal Link to comment
Tweed9674 Posted 21 hours ago Share Posted 21 hours ago Hi @Jaffa How have things been for you in the past month? Any change? Reading the thread, I wonder if you experienced some kind of ssri poop out after a stressful event. I really, really hope that you can get some relief from all this. Keep fighting! Supplements: Vit D3, Fish oil, Magnesium bisglycenate 200mg (when needed), Melatonin 2.5mg, Camomile tea (1 - 2 times a day) Started effexor in 2011. Stopped effexor in 2012 (fast tamper). Got back on effexor in 2012. Tried stopping effexor again in 2014 (I'm not sure?), fast tamper again. Started effexor again in 2014. Switched to Escitalopram in 2016 I believe Stopped Escitalopram 10mg cold turkey on January 3 2024. Reinstated Escitalopram 5mg on april 2 2024. Down to 1mg on april 3 2024, 1.25mg on april 11 2024 Link to comment
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