Sonia009: Citalopram discontinuation/reinstatement

[Sonia009]

Thank you Gridley and Altostrata for replying. I am having my potassium levels checked 4th December and I will wait for that result before deciding what to do next. I will let you know and probably ask your advice then, if that is ok. What I do like about the sertraline tablets is that they are scored so it would be easy to take a 25mg dose which is equivalent to 5mg citalopram. 

Apparently liquid cit is not prescribed in that surgery, only under certain circumstances for people with certain underlying health issues. He mentioned anorexia as an example. They won't prescribe valium either. No point trying to argue with them, I've been there and done that, got me nowhere.

I don't think my symptoms could get any worse though if I switched, (assuming it's not the potassium), I feel trapped, have lost my confidence and am using covid19 as an excuse not to go anywhere.

Having different brands each month hasn't helped and my doses have probably been inconsiistant. I didn't get on with the sovereign brand at all, I wouldn't take that one again. 

The idea of making my own liquid doesn't appeal to me if I'm honest, I find cutting and weighing a pain in the proverbial as it is.

I appreciate your expertise and value your comments. Thank you both. 

[sunnysideup69]

Hey @Sonia001, going on and off, up and down Citalopram certainly caused me problems, personally. It stopped working as it once did - don't think it was an adverse reaction, but the dose changes and drastic cuts of fifty percent sensitised my system and then its effects were anything BUT sedating.

 

Initially, I ignored advice here as I was convinced it 'must be the drug,' spent about £800 seeing a private psychiatrist who prescribed me Venlafaxine....only to find, after a horrible cold switch, that it wasn't about the drug but about a wonky nervous system. 

Obviously, we are two different people and it's your choice. But I'd really advise caution with swapping to anything else.

Best thing might be to switch GP if possible to get someone more on board with cautious tapering. Also, if you ask your pharmacy, they can provide you with your preferred brand. That can make a huge difference, just to have that stability.

[Sonia009]

Hi Sunny,

Thanks for replying. Hope you are feeling better and your dad recovering well.

Sometimes I feel so desperate to try anything especially now that my husband is ill and has to undergo tests. 

I did speak to the pharmacist about keeping to a brand but because of the covid thing they said they take what they can get because of a world shortage of drugs. Pre covid, they used to order me the accord brand that I liked but I haven't seen that one since covid.

Like you I've been on/off and up/down over the years, maybe it's not working for me anymore and actually doing more harm than good. How can you tell? 

I've spoken to 3 GP's at my practice and they all seem to dismiss 5mg as being non therapeutic therefore stopping immediately shouldn't cause any problems, yeah!! I think I prefer to take advice here!

I'll continue with weighing my dose for now and see what happens with my bloods.I

What dose of citalopram were you on Sunny when you did the cold switch, if you don't mind me asking? 

Thanks for caring x

 

[manymoretodays]

Keep us updated Sonia001.

It may be well worth, not fighting for, but getting the prescription liquid approved for you........as then, chances are you would keep getting the same brand.

And I wouldn't switch to another AD now.

You can also make your own liquid, it's really not that difficult. 

I'll just put the link here again, if you decide to reconsider:

Tips for tapering off Celexa(citalopram)

it ^ provides further links on making your own liquid

 

If you do go to liquid, then for best results a cautious, careful crossing over is advised:

No change in dosage, while crossing over

3/4 solid and 1/4 liquid to equal your dose, for 1-3 days

1/2 solid and 1/2 liquid, (again to equal your dose) for days 4- 6

1/4 solid and 3/4 liquid for days 7-10

And then to all liquid

 

Good to HOLD for a couple weeks after too, prior to any further tapers.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your husband too.  That can be very hard, I'm sure.  And might be throwing things off a bit.  It's a huge stressor.

Okay, and best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

 

[Sonia009]

10 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Keep us updated Sonia001.

Will do.

10 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

It may be well worth, not fighting for, but getting the prescription liquid approved for you........as then, chances are you would keep getting the same brand.

Thanks. I've tried the three doctors at my surgery, they don't prescribe it. I'll continue to weigh my dose for now.

10 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

And I wouldn't switch to another AD now.

I'm still taking citalopram.

10 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

You can also make your own liquid, it's really not that difficult. 

I'll just put the link here again, if you decide to reconsider:

Tips for tapering off Celexa(citalopram)

it ^ provides further links on making your own liquid

Thanks, I'll bear this in mind. Thanks for the link.

10 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

 

If you do go to liquid, then for best results a cautious, careful crossing over is advised:

No change in dosage, while crossing over

3/4 solid and 1/4 liquid to equal your dose, for 1-3 days

1/2 solid and 1/2 liquid, (again to equal your dose) for days 4- 6

1/4 solid and 3/4 liquid for days 7-10

And then to all liquid

 

Good to HOLD for a couple weeks after too, prior to any further tapers.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your husband too.  That can be very hard, I'm sure.  And might be throwing things off a bit.  It's a huge stressor.

Thank you.

10 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Okay, and best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

 

 

[Sonia009]

Hi all, 

had a fairly good day yesterday, had mum and another family member from my bubble to lunch. By 4pm started to flag a bit, took to my bed after they left. I over indulged a bit, gateau, cream, something I have not had for a while. Today feeling horrible again, head muzziness, stomach upset, anxiety increase, feeling edgy. I do get myself worked up when I have family over, the preparation etc, probably stressed me a bit. Anyone else feel this too?

Best wishes to all

[sunnysideup69]

On 11/23/2020 at 2:45 PM, Sonia001 said:

Hi all, 

had a fairly good day yesterday, had mum and another family member from my bubble to lunch. By 4pm started to flag a bit, took to my bed after they left. I over indulged a bit, gateau, cream, something I have not had for a while. Today feeling horrible again, head muzziness, stomach upset, anxiety increase, feeling edgy. I do get myself worked up when I have family over, the preparation etc, probably stressed me a bit. Anyone else feel this too?

Best wishes to all

 Definitely, hun. Love seeing my parents but it can be stressful in some ways, too.

Sorry I didn't get back to your post above - was offline for a while, just trying to get on with life. @SoniaI was at 20mg Citalopram when I made the cold switch, but I really don't think the dose affected anything....switching was just a bad idea. I should have waited and levelled out on the Citalopram, really.

I think for those of us who've been on/off, up/down on an antidepressant, we're dealing with dysregulation and unfortunately, all that really helps with that is time and waiting it out. Also, I get you about overindulging. My stomach and brain can't really take chocolate/ sugary things any more. Am also currently weaning off caffeine.

Last week I indulged in sugary stuff a couple of days and it always makes me wobble....it's really infuriating. I'm now a cashew nut butter (instead of sugar) fan, that's my treat food ....Anyway. Don't feel bad for indulging. Hopefully you'll be feeling better tomorrow  

[Sonia009]

Hi Sunny,

Thanks for replying and great to hear you are doing well!

Had to say goodbye to one of my beautiful cats last week, that knocked me back a bit. The other one is poorly too. Had them for 17 years.

Still taking the same dose Citalopram, want to come off them but I 'm still getting symptoms so have to stay on same dose for now, like you say, have to wait it out.😬 Getting good moments too although planning anything is a gamble.

Hope you continue to make good progress!😊

[Sonia009]

Hi everyone

I started a new brand yesterday and today I feel like I'm back to square one. I have flu like symptons, aches and pains in my back, feel like a cold coming on but not quite the same, headache, feel like I'm drugged and lacking energy. I weighed the tablet and it is slightly lighter than my previous brand so I may be out slightly with my dosage. I have put a request in writing to my GP today for liquid citalopram but I'm not hopeful if I'm honest. I have had problems changing brands before, sovereign are the worst for me. These ones are medreich. It's like starting all over again. I'm trying to stay positive, reminding myself it's the meds but I'm not sleeping well which doesn't help. Next week I get my flu jab so that's going to be fun too. Ah well!!

[ChessieCat]

Q:  Are you able to get any more of the old brand?

 

I know things are difficult with supplies at this time due to covid.  But you could ask the pharmacy to try and source some of the old brand and/or you could ask at other pharmacies.

 

Because you know that you have difficulties changing brands I think it would be a good idea to try your best to put a system in place so that you don't have to keep chopping and changing.

[Sonia009]

Hi ChessieCat,

Thank you for replying. I've been chopping and changing since covid, 4 brands in all. They have different weights too so I have to weigh each brand and recalculate with each change.

I have asked the pharmacist more than once if I can have the same brand but they take what they can get apparently. They seem so busy these days too, they must be under some pressure with more people going to them for answers rather than speaking to a doctor. Pre covid it was possible to get my favourite brand, I took Accord for years and the pharmacist put it on my records. I haven't seen that brand since covid. The pharmacy I use is part of the doctor's surgery and my prescription automatically goes to them. Some of our prescriptions are made up by outside pharmacies and delivered to them. It's a bit messy. I will try ringing another pharmacy tomorrow to see what they say in case there is another way, thank you. 

Regards

[Sonia009]

Hi ChessieCat,

I contacted another pharmacy local to me and the only brand they currently have is Sovereign, the one that I don't like. It seems they are getting them from the same hub.

I also tried another pharmacy 5 miles away and they only have the brand Tever. The pharmacist was very helpful, said he usually had this brand in stock and that it was popular. I could ask for my prescription and take it along to this pharmacy. It means trying another brand but I think it would be more consistent once I get used to it.

I tried one other popular high street pharmacy about 5 miles away in the opposite direction and the only brand they have is Noumed, the one I just finished. The pharmacist said he couldn't guarantee the same brand each month though.

As mentioned before, I have put in writing a request to my GP for liquid Citalopram or if not, another brand other than Sovereign. I'll see what happens there and if nothing does, I think I'll try Tever. The pharmacist there seemed very approachable and spoke about withdrawing over months (rather than just stopping as was suggested by my GP, because 5mg wasn't a therapeutic dose).

Thank you

[ChessieCat]

That's great research and I'm glad the pharmacists were helpful and provided the information you needed to make an informed decision.

 

6 hours ago, Sonia001 said:

rather than just stopping as was suggested by my GP, because 5mg wasn't a therapeutic dose

 

"Therapeutic dose" in an arbitrary term that the pharmaceutical companies use.  And the doctors get their information from the pharmaceutical drug representatives.

 

SA prefers to use the term "lowest effective dose".

 

6 hours ago, Sonia001 said:

The pharmacist there seemed very approachable and spoke about withdrawing over months

 

"Months" could mean any amount of time.  Most medical professionals usually mean a few months.

 

SA's suggested taper rate is no more than 10% of the current dose followed by a hold of at least 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

 

[Sonia009]

Thank you ChessieCat, you've been very helpful and I appreciate what you and all the moderators do here. Kind regards.

[Sonia009]

Hi, I had blood taken yesterday for potassium levels, now have to wait for results. Had BP taken, that was ok, also flu jab. I went in with a headache and now I have a migraine. Aching and stiff all over, the site of the jab sore, which is a good sign I think although I can't raise my arm at the moment, even my jaws and ears ache. Head whooshing and muzzy and feeling like I want to just curl up in bed. Hope this will pass soon. BTW, anyone get a headache after having BP taken? I've noticed that I get a headache every time. Got up to do my housework now going to chill for the rest of the day.😐

[ChessieCat]

11 hours ago, Sonia001 said:

anyone get a headache after having BP taken? I've noticed that I get a headache every time.

 

Just a theory.  When you get your blood pressure taken the cuff they use is tightened which I think might either make your heart have to pump harder for a short period of time or causes a "back up" of blood" in your blood vessels because there is a restriction that is not usually there.  Or it could be a combination of both.  As I said, just a theory.

 

But if it happens every time you might be very sensitive to this, or you might get stressed and that is the cause, or again a bit of both.

[Sonia009]

Thanks ChessieCat, yes it could be a combination of things. When I was taking my BP at home for a fortnight for my GP, I was getting a lot of headaches. It took me several days to make the connection but when I stopped taking it the headaches went. Of course, my flu jab probably contributed to it also on Friday. 

I am sensitive to meds I'm sure. I had the flu jab two years ago and it made me ill. I swore then I would never have another but because of covid I thought it was the sensible thing to do.

Thanks for the link to Alto's interview. I have viewed it already, amazing lady. I've also listened to Dr Horowitz's interview. Thank goodness for people like these who are not afraid to speak up. They give encouragement and hope to us all.

[Sonia009]

Hi all,

Potassium level came back as 3.7 which is normal. 

I am now left to believe my symptoms are because of withdrawal, inaccurate weighing possibly and a combination of different brands since covid came on the scene. Also, I've had two courses of Antibiotics and the flu jab which has definitely made me feel ill. 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by ChessieCat
removed quotes

[Sonia009]

Hi ChessieCat,

I've been given my old brand Accord today so putting it in writing to my doctor has helped somewhat. I have asked the pharmacist if I can keep to the same brand so I'll have to wait and see.

At least I have enough to see me over the Christmas period, next I have to weigh them to work out my 5.25 mg dose.I

Hope all is well with you.

Regards

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by ChessieCat
removed quote

[Sonia009]

Hi,

Just wanted to post because I've had a really good day today. I'm back on my original med brand and I don't know whether it's that because I'd only taken one dose, or maybe it's a window. I've been to the hospital with my husband, he had more tests although he is feeling better than he was, we did some Christmas shopping, no dizziness, no feeling weird, I'm  so hoping it will last. If it does, I will begin my next 10% taper. Fingers crossed. Best wishes to all. x

[Sonia009]

Hi,

How can things change so quickly? After a really good day on Wednesday, Thursday afternoon had that horrible headache with dizzy feeling again. I'm getting it right now too. Could it be stress? Lord knows I have every reason to be stressed. My mother has a 'head cold' so she thinks, my daughter has been tested for covid, awaiting results, my husband is up and down with his health problems, even my other cat is poorly. I feel so frustrated not being able to do the things I would normally do to help everyone. 

[Colonial]

It can change so quickly from even one part of the day to the next.

Have an ok morning, feel like your dying for a few hours in the afternoon then back t feeling ok by 10pm.

Makes it terribly hard to plan anything, doesn't it?

Hope your husband is feeling better.

 

 

[Sonia009]

2 hours ago, Colonial said:

It can change so quickly from even one part of the day to the next.

Have an ok morning, feel like your dying for a few hours in the afternoon then back t feeling ok by 10pm.

Makes it terribly hard to plan anything, doesn't it?

Thanks Colonial,

Yes, planning anything is a no no. Sometimes when I'm feeling good, I think of what I plan to do the next day, simple things like putting on make up and jewellery, dressing up and going out. The next day comes and I don't want to do anything. I have to make the most of when the moment is good.

Quote

Hope your husband is feeling better.

Thank you. He's waiting for results of ct scan on stomach. He gets good and not so good days too. All started when he came off Trulicity injection.

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by ChessieCat
removed blank quote

[mstimc]

Hi Sonia

 

One thing I found to be true during WD and recovery is that our ability to deal with the reality of a situation is much stronger than our ability to deal with anticipatory anxiety.  I believe you'll find that you're a lot stronger than your anxiety wants you to think you are.   For now, try to take each day as it comes and don't judge yourself too harshly when your plans don't work out as you'd like.  Healing will come! 

[Sonia009]

39 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Hi Sonia

 

One thing I found to be true during WD and recovery is that our ability to deal with the reality of a situation is much stronger than our ability to deal with anticipatory anxiety.  I believe you'll find that you're a lot stronger than your anxiety wants you to think you are.   For now, try to take each day as it comes and don't judge yourself too harshly when your plans don't work out as you'd like.  Healing will come! 

Thank you for those comforting words. Much appreciated.

[Sonia009]

13 hours ago, Sonia001 said:

Hi,

How can things change so quickly? After a really good day on Wednesday, Thursday afternoon had that horrible headache with dizzy feeling again. I'm getting it right now too. Could it be stress? Lord knows I have every reason to be stressed. My mother has a 'head cold' so she thinks, my daughter has been tested for covid, awaiting results, my husband is up and down with his health problems, even my other cat is poorly. I feel so frustrated not being able to do the things I would normally do to help everyone. 

My daughter's test for covid came back negative thank goodness! That's one thing less to worry about.

[Sonia009]

Hi,

I have a question regarding pain killers and withdrawal. I take Citalopram at 5.30 pm, had a bit of a headache so took one Panadol at 8pm and since then have been feeling dizzy. The same happens if I take an aspirin following Citalopram. Perhaps I'm still adjusting to my new brand citalopram, not sure. Prior to this have had a fairly good couple of days. I felt a bit stressed yesterday about finding a small amount of money whilst out shopping and when I went to the Police station it was c!osed. I took it home and it bothered me all night, kept me awake, why did I have to find it I kept telling myself. Today I posted it to the same Police station with an explanation. How could something like that stress me out? All my anxiety symptoms came flooding back last night. I felt annoyed with myself for picking it up off the road, I wished I'd left it there. 

Anyway, sending best wishes for a peaceful Christmas to all. x

[Colonial]

Is dizziness a WD symptom for you at any other time does it only come after the the aspirin and Panadol?

How many times did it happen after aspirin?

 

Is there a pattern to WHEN you take the aspirin and Panadol time wise?

Meaning are you always taking the pain killer at the same time, or does it vary?

 

Did this ever happen before the new med AD formulation?

 

 

[Sonia009]

2 hours ago, Colonial said:

Is dizziness a WD symptom for you at any other time does it only come after the the aspirin and Panadol?

Thanks for replying Colonial. Yes, dizziness is a withdrawal symptom for me, always has been. I don't mean room spinning type of dizziness, more of a light headed feeling. The dizziness I get after taking a painkiller is more intense with the need to lay down, but only noticeable the last couple of weeks.

2 hours ago, Colonial said:

How many times did it happen after aspirin?

 

I think every time over recent couple of weeks. To be clear, my apologies, I usually take a combination tablet of aspirin/paracetamol/caffeine called Anadin Extra. I can only take one, two is too much for me.

3 hours ago, Colonial said:

 

 

 

 

Is there a pattern to WHEN you take the aspirin and Panadol time wise?

Meaning are you always taking the pain killer at the same time, or does it vary?

I take a painkiller every night around 8pm because of neck ache, headache and general aches and pains. I have neck arthritis too, early stages. I used to take an anadin extra but for 2/3 weeks have been taking panadol. I think the paracetamol content helps me sleep. I don't know if the general aches and pains are a withdrawal symptom, I sometimes wonder. I usually take one late morning too if I feel headachy, (either panadol or anadin extra) I try not to take if I can help it. I get migraines so if I feel a headache coming on I take a pain killer to try to prevent it. Headaches I think are also a withdrawal symptom for me.

2 hours ago, Colonial said:

Did this ever happen before the new med AD formulation?I

It's more noticeable since taking the new brand of AD, because it starts within minutes of taking the painkiller whether it be panadol or anadin extra. It's more intense after taking the painkiller. I feel the need to lay down. It passes after a couple of hours. 

2 hours ago, Colonial said:

Now you have me thinking. I have only started taking panadol over recent weeks too around the same time I started the new AD brand. The reason being to try to cut down on aspirin and caffeine.

I never could take paracetamol on its own before, it always made me feel ill and have nausea. Panadol is paracetamol but I seemed to be ok with it, or maybe not?

 

[Colonial]

18 minutes ago, Sonia001 said:

more intense with the need to lay down, but only noticeable the last couple of weeks

Hummm when did you start the new Citalopram formula?

It might be your system is still a bit unsettled from the change over still and the pain meds are aggrivating the system

18 minutes ago, Sonia001 said:

, I usually take a combination tablet of aspirin/paracetamol/caffeine called Anadin Extra.

Hummm.  Maybe try a pill with just ONE ingredient WITHOUT caffeine.

18 minutes ago, Sonia001 said:

I never could take paracetamol on its own before, it always made me feel ill and have nausea. Panadol is paracetamol but I seemed to be ok with it, or maybe not?

Well, then I guess that may be the answer.\

One is just the generic of the other I believe. 

Can you try just aspirin at a different time of the day, earlier, even if you dont feel pain?

Just to see if you have a reaction or not?

The late afternoon-early evening can be a more symptomatic tie for AD WD.

You need to see if its the med thats the true problem or more the timing putting you over the edge.

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Colonial

[Sonia009]

Hi Colonial

I started the he brand on 8th of this month, Accord, which used to be my original and preferred brand. Prior to that had three other brand changes over recent months and haven't really settled on any of them.

 

I also had the flu jab on 5th of this month and had symptoms after that, maybe that has something to do with it too.

 

I will try taking aspirin on its own later today, as suggested, to see what happens.

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to me, it's very much appreciated.

 

 

[Sonia009]

One more thing I have noticed recently, around 1pm I start feeling really tired for a few hours, this is after taking a panadol late morning. I think I have just answered my own question but I hadn't made the connection until you broke it all down for me. Thank you.

[Colonial]

57 minutes ago, Sonia001 said:

I also had the flu jab on 5th of this month

 

Your very welcome!

The jab could also aggravate, since it's point is to cause an auto immune response.

 

[Sonia009]

16 hours ago, Colonial said:

Hummm when did you start the new Citalopram formula?

It might be your system is still a bit unsettled from the change over still and the pain meds are aggrivating the system

Hummm.  Maybe try a pill with just ONE ingredient WITHOUT caffeine.

Well, then I guess that may be the answer.\

One is just the generic of the other I believe. 

Can you try just aspirin at a different time of the day, earlier, even if you dont feel pain?

Just to see if you have a reaction or not?

 

Hi Colonial,

I took one aspirin today at 1pm, as discussed,  and I didn't get that tired, heavy head feeling and no dizziness today either. I am tired now but it's a different kind of tired feeling from not getting much sleep last night so it's an early one for me tonight. I think there's been so much going on in the news lately and waiting for my husband's scan results, my mind is working overtime. 

I will ditch the panadol and caffeine and see how that goes.

Thank you so much for your help, best wishes to you.

16 hours ago, Colonial said:

The late afternoon-early evening can be a more symptomatic tie for AD WD.

You need to see if its the med thats the true problem or more the timing putting you over the edge.

 

 

[Colonial]

Your very welcome!

That sounds like a good plan to start, especially so close after the flu shot and med change.

Caffeine also, can be problematic for members.

Perhaps in the future after your system is settled Panadol will be an option.

 

[Sonia009]

Just sending Happy Christmas wishes to Altostrata, her team and everyone else, here's to a peaceful, healing Christmas for everyone and a healthier New Year! 🍷