Sonia009: Citalopram discontinuation/reinstatement

[Sonia009]

Hi everyone,

Had a good Christmas, not perfect but was able to get through the day without wd symptoms apart from feeling exhausted late afternoon. Boxing day ok too. Today a different story. Ok this morning but this afternoon dizzy muzzy head feeling, head and neck aches, crying spells out of the blue, feeling like I'm going to pass out if I'm busy but don't. constant buzzing in ears but that's not new. I have eaten more sugary things over Christmas and I'm wondering if it's that. No booze. Whenever I get the dizzy symptom it starts a panic off in me and my health anxiety kicks in. Hoping it passes soon but it's so difficult not worrying about it. Best wishes!

[Sonia009]

I've realised I've been taking a lower dose since starting my new brand. I'm back on 5mg as opposed to 5.25 mg. I am going to go back up gradually. Stupid thing to do, the new brand weighs heavier than others I've used. 

[Sonia009]

Hi everyone,

The last couple of days I've been feeling a bit off with some headaches, dizziness and stomach upset and I'm wondering if it's related to histamine intolerance. For a couple of days I've been eating high histamine foods such as chocolates, cakes, cheese, nuts and these are things I don't normally eat. Tonight I took two anadin extra for a headache and these contain aspirin which contains histamine. I started feeling dizzy after taking them. I am going to try a low histamine diet for a few days to see how that goes. Just sounding off, it helps. Best wishes all

 

[Sonia009]

Hi all,

So, the tablets I have been taking from the same packet are inconsistent in their weight. Some weigh 80grams, this is what I have based my dose 5.25mgs on but I have discovered some weigh 78 grams. How can this be so with tablets from the same packet? It's so annoying. No wonder my symptoms are up and down like a yoyo. I am never going to recover at this rate. I can't get the liquid form of citalopram, my doctors surgery won't prescribe it. In a couple of days I'm going to have to change to a different brand yet again and will have to start all over because they will probably weigh differently too. The only way I can think of getting out of this is by weighing each 10mg tablet and then cutting it in half and weighing it to get the equivalent 5mgs. It means dropping but at least I won't have to calculate each time. I already have the dizziness from inconsistent doses so what does it matter if I get it from lowering the dose. The other alternative is to either stop all together or go back to 10mgs. I can't do the calculating, crushing and diluting with water thing. This is already driving me to despair. Sorry for the rant but feel as if I'm getting nowhere.

[sunnysideup69]

Hi @Sonia001, I think what you are describing is common, but you'd be better asking Brassmonkey for example for advice. Do you know how to tag people? I think in your situation you'd have to take an average weight of several pills and base your calculations on that.....but don't take my word on that, ask someone more knowledgeable.

Sorry it's proving a bit of a nightmare. How are you doing, generally?

[Sonia009]

Hi Sunny,

Thanks for dropping by. The dizziness, muzzy head feeling is the worse for me, I think it's worse because of inconsistent dosage. I can put up with the anxiety, insomnia etc, etc, but the dizziness sets everything off for me. Your advice re taking an average weight makes sense. Perhaps  @brassmonkey could confirm pease?

[brassmonkey]

Yes, Sunnysideup has it right.

 

There is always going to be a small variation between tablets from the same manufacturer and an even bigger one between manufacturers. To get around this we recommend using the average pill weight for the base of your calculations. Next you would calculate the weight of the dose that your require and then use the tablets as a "supply pile" and only take the amount you need. Doing this will remove the differences between the tablets from the same manufacturer. The calculations will need to be redone for each of the different manufacturers. 

 

As long as the strength listed on the bottle is the same you can use the original averages for each manufacturer. So if you used pills from company A last month you did one set of averages, when you use pills from company B this month you need to redo the averages, but if you get pills from company A again next month you can reuse your original company A averages.

 

Be careful not to mix the "supply piles" of the two companies together, that would throw off all the calculations.

[Sonia009]

Thank you so much for making this clear Brassmonkey. I only have a couple of tablets left before I begin my new brand so I'll start the new brand tomorrow using this method. Thanks to you too @Sunnysideup.

[sunnysideup69]

You're welcome, @Sonia001. Really hope doing the above will start to create stability for you.

Dizziness is horrible and quite debilitating.

 

[Sonia009]

Hi,

So I weighed all 28 pills from the same pack yesterday and the weights of each pill ranged from .058 grams to .067 grams, there were 8 different weights in all. It 's a no wonder I can't stabilise because I've been consistent with sticking to one weight which means sometimes I've been getting a lower dose and sometimes a higher one, on a daily basis. The total weight was 1.764 so I divided by 56 to get my 5mg pill weight which is .032 grams. Is this the right way @brassmonkey or should I split the same weight pills separately and calculate each batch that way, would that be more accurate? I've gone back down to 5 mg from 5.25 mg because it will be easier to calculate with other brands. Feeling dizzy today after I sneezed. 

 

 

[Sonia009]

I meant after blowing my nose, not sneezing.

[brassmonkey]

Yes, that is a good way of calculating our dose. I found it easiest to crush several of the tablets to make a "stock pile" of powder and then weigh out the dose I needed from that pile. By using the same dose weight each time you will be much more consistent than by trying to weigh and adjust each individual pill. It may take a few weeks for things to stabilize on the new dose weigh and having things more consistent.  Give it a little time now to settle in before thinking about tapering.

 

With the dry sinuses a good sneeze or hard blow can affect the inner ear and cause the dizziness. Have you tried saline spray?

[Sonia009]

Thanks for your reassuring reply@brassmonkey, sorry I had to call for your help again . Yes I thought maybe crushing would be better, I'll do that and will give it a further few weeks on current dose. I will try the saline spray too, thank you. It shook me a bit I have to say but I'm ok this evening.

Kind regards.

[Sonia009]

 

Hi everyone,

So now I think I have sciatica 😢. For the past 4 days I have had a dull ache from my left buttock all the way down to my toes. It's worse when I'm in bed. I bought a tens machine but it does nothing for me, in fact I think it has made my other symptoms worse, (that and taking extra painkillers). It seems to have made my muzzy head and tinnitus worse causing me anxiety symptoms. I'm already going through a small dose adjustment and getting effects from that but I'm worried I've over stimulated an already sensitized nervous system. Has anyone tried a tens machine whilst withdrawing from ad's? 

[brassmonkey]

Where are you positioning the pads for the TENS machine? Sciatica radiates from the lower back, but is felt in the legs. Using the TENS on the legs won't help much. If you aren't already I'd try using it on your back.

[Sonia009]

2 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Where are you positioning the pads for the TENS machine? Sciatica radiates from the lower back, but is felt in the legs. Using the TENS on the legs won't help much. If you aren't already I'd try using it on your back.

Hi brassmonkey,

Thanks for replying. I've been using it on lower back mostly and shoulders for aching neck and shoulders. I haven't used it today though it hasn't been so bad. Night time is the worse but I've taken analgesics so hopefully I won't have to use it.

Regards,

[ChessieCat]

I found some very good videos on YouTube from a couple of physical therapists.  This one explains sciatica really well:

 

Sciatica Leg Pain Reveals Pinched Nerve: How to Relieve It Now

 

And this one gives some tips:

 

Best Sleeping Position for Back Pain, Sciatica, & Leg Pain (Great Tips)

 

And here is their playlist of sciatica videos:

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8l32k1r15l6JllXY7AcTuCLzq_wwmNwf

 

[Sonia009]

7 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

I found some very good videos on YouTube from a couple of physical therapists.  This one explains sciatica really well:

 

Sciatica Leg Pain Reveals Pinched Nerve: How to Relieve It Now

 

And this one gives some tips:

 

Best Sleeping Position for Back Pain, Sciatica, & Leg Pain (Great Tips)

 

And here is their playlist of sciatica videos:

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8l32k1r15l6JllXY7AcTuCLzq_wwmNwf

 

Thanks ChessieCat, I'll take a look at the above links.

Regards

[Sonia009]

Hi all,

Today feeling dizzy and headachy. I can only think it's because I'm still adjusting to my new weighing technique, weighing .032 grams which is equivalent to 5.20 mg. it's Also a slight reduction by 0.05 mg.  Not much I know but I seem to be very sensitive to any change. Also, I've been taking more analgesia for my back and leg aches, a combination of paracetamol, aspirin and caffeine. I know you are not supposed to take aspirin with Citalopram but nothing else works for me, not even paracetamol. I don't think paracetamol agree with me in any case, I used to always feel nausea after them but it seems taken with aspirin it's ok. Sometimes I wonder would it be best to stop Citalopram all together or increase to 10mg even so I know I'm getting a more accurate dose. I've even thought about switching to another med. This has been going on for over a year now and I am beginning to feel I need to try something else. I know it's my decision but I feel like crap now so what difference does it make because I will feel just as bad with any changes. Sorry but just feel so hopeless at the mo.

[ChessieCat]

Have you tried either getting a prescription liquid or making your own?

[Sonia009]

19 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Have you tried either getting a prescription liquid or making your own?

Hi,

I've spoken to all of the doctors at my surgery, they don't prescribe liquid citalopram. I haven't tried making my own solution, would that be more accurate than weighing? 

[ChessieCat]

Yes liquid is more accurate than weighing.

 

how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules

 

SA recommends doing a cross over when changing form/brand of a drug by doing each of the following combinations for 3-7 days or longer if needed:

 

3/4 + 1/4, 1/2 + 1/2, 1/4 + 3/4 then all new form.

 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by ChessieCat

[Sonia009]

Hi @ChessieCat. I've been reading some threads and a member here has said "There will be a drop in effective dosage when mixing a tablet with water". What does this mean please?

[ChessieCat]

Where did you see this information?  When quoting something please include where the information can be seen in context and the author of the quote.

 

Many members have tapered using DIY liquid of the various psychiatric drugs.

 

Rhiannon made her own liquid to taper Celexa.  She works in a laboratory.  In Post #1 of this topic (about half way down the post) she explains her method (and that she changed to using only water):

how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules

 

This is the link to Rhiannon's intro topic and the link to Rhiannon's Success Story is at the top of Post #1:

 

☼-rhiannons-intro-by-rhi

 

[Sonia009]

Thanks ChessieCat,

I have been reading Rhiannon's method of dissolving Citalopram in water and I made my own dose up this evening using a syringe and small narrow sherry glass. It was easier to do than I thought and I can see how it is more precise than cutting and weighing. Had a relatively good day today too so fingers crossed I will see the benefits of this. Sorry about the quote, I can't find it but I will note in future to name the author. 

Regards

[ChessieCat]

The great thing about liquid is that you can dilute it with more water so that you can measure small doses.  I've been mixed the contents of a 2mg capsule (compounded Pristiq) with 200mL water and it has worked well for my last few doses of 0.xxmg but my next dose will be 0.xxxmg and it will be easier to measure my dose if I use twice as much water.

[Sonia009]

Hi ChessieCat,

Thanks for the tip re increasing water when making lower reductions.

I've been reading some of your thread and note you have come a very long way with your own tapering journey. When we (I) ask for advice it is easy to forget that those helping have been through awful withdrawal symptoms thenselves.  Thank you for sharing your experiences and good luck with your remaining withdrawal programme.

[sunnysideup69]

Hey @Sonia001, dropping in to see how you're doing? Hoping the water dilution method works well for you. I'm still having intermittent crazy dreams. But it's tolerable and when compared to two years ago, I am sleeping much better, usually solidly for 6 hours.

I noted a couple of posts above you talked about switching drugs -  It's your decision but I hope you've reconsidered. Take it from me, honestly, switching drugs brings its own fresh hell. You've gotta cope with the CT of one and the startup of another, all on a sensitised nervous system. I would highly NOT recommend, having done it.

Honestly, you'd be better off asking if your GP can prescribe you one particular brand of the Citalopram, or getting your pharmacist to make a note on their system about the brand you use, and making a water solution of that brand. Rather than beginning again with something else.

Sending hugs  

[Sonia009]

Hi Sunny,

Thanks for dropping by. Hope you're doing okay and with your online teaching.

Yes, I am diluting with water and am on the same dose and so far it's been ok. Using a syringe to measure is so easy. I get moments of muzzy head feelings, some light headedness but it passes and I am able to go about my routine at home and usually rest up in the afternoon and knit. I know I am probably still adjusting to this new method because I too am getting weird dreams again before I wake up, occasional body jerks, brain zaps and restlessness in bed. Occasional crying spells too. The tinnitus is always with me. I am sleeping better though, I get about 6 hours sleep so long as my cat doesn't wake me up. Every time he uses his litter tray everyone has to know about it, he howls to let us know.

I'm on antibiotics again though for a gum infection which isn't helping. 😡

I'm not thinking of swopping drugs now, I just want to stabilze on this dose and stay there for a while before ever so gradually reducing. I've spoken to doctor and pharmacy re keeping to the same brand, it worked for one month but then went back to varying brands. The pharmacy said they take what they can get these days because of world shortage of drugs. None of my local pharmacies stock the brand I like but I have had the same brand, albeit not my preferred one, for two months now so that's a positive. 

Looking back to the way I was before diluting, I am more hopeful that this is the way to go for me.

Glad to hear you're sleeping better too. 

Take care..

[Sonia009]

Hi everyone,

After a few relatively good days which probably led to overdoing things a bit, last night I went down to 5.1 mg. This morning got up with a dizzy feeling and pretty much don't feel like doing anything. I even felt dizzy putting my mascara on whilst looking up. My eyes also feel strained, too much knitting again. I'll go back to 5.20 mg tonight. (Still diluting).

My appetite is also poor in lockdown, I force myself to eat, if I didn't have to cook for my husband I don't know what I'd be eating, probably just picking. Some of my clothes are starting to look baggy on me. I think this is anxiety from trying to stabilise and not getting very far, or fast enough!

I'm getting broken sleep too, my husband is an insomniac, my cat howls in the night for attention and when I get up from bed to tend to my cat I have to pace myself not to feel giddy.

This is so debilitating, two days ago I was cleaning my kitchen and windows, everything was gleaming, now I feel like a wet dish cloth.

Some of my symptoms today are, headache, dizziness, tinnitus, tickling ears, stiff neck and shoulders, tearfulness, sinus issues, constipation, stomach ache, noise sensitivity. My gum is playing up too. 

Last night all of the above plus restlessness in bed and beat sensitivity.

I've been to ENT before when I was tapering with most of the above symptoms, he couldn't find any abnormalities. I had the epley manoeuvre but no nystagmus was found. It has to be withdrawal, I have to believe that.

[sunnysideup69]

Hey @Sonia001,

Sorry you're having a bumpy patch, definitely sounds like WD to me as it coincides with dropping in dose. However, it could be exacerbated a bit by 'overdoing things.' I also tend to be over active when I'm feeling well, so I empathise.

Really hope you can get some decent sleep soon....pets are wonderful but a howling cat in the night is not fun 😯.

[Sonia009]

On 2/21/2021 at 5:58 AM, sunnysideup69 said:

Hey @Sonia001,

Sorry you're having a bumpy patch, definitely sounds like WD to me as it coincides with dropping in dose. However, it could be exacerbated a bit by 'overdoing things.' I also tend to be over active when I'm feeling well, so I empathise.

Really hope you can get some decent sleep soon....pets are wonderful but a howling cat in the night is not fun 😯.

Hi Sunny,

Hope you're doing ok.

I'm in migraine mode at the moment so this is just a brief visit😧. Thanks for your post. Still getting all of the above. I've had to go back to weighing my tablets because the liquid was irritating my throat and giving me a cough and dry mouth, more than usual. Really had my hopes up with that.

Have you had your kitten yet? My cat is not well, it's a matter of palliative care now.

Speak soon.😊

[bunchesofoats]

Hey @Sonia001 I wanted to check in and see how you're doing on your intro page. I have also tried the Epley maneuver many times before I knew the vertigo was related to the citalopram. I use a little bit of doxylamine succinate to help with sleep. I take between 1/16 and 1/8 of tablet because more than that and I'm very groggy the next day (which may be good for tempering high anxiety but not if I want a chance at being productive).

[Sonia009]

Hi @bunchesofoats,

Good to hear from you. 

I've not had a good day to be honest, I seem to be going backwards rather than forward. I woke up with a muzzy head and have felt off all day. I forgot to take my contact lenses out last night so that didn't help.

I think I'm still adjusting to messing around with my dose, diluting then back to tablet and now diluting again. It started to irritate my throat but I think diluting gives me a more accurate dose so am trying it again.

Being in lockdown doesn't help although I don't know whether I'd be going anywhere if we were not in lockdown to be honest. I have a car outside my door and I haven't driven it in months. I've been on antibiotics three times over the past year which haven't helped either.

I still get dizzy sensations, even when I look up to put my mascara on in the mornings. It's bizarre. I had what I thought was sciatica a few weeks ago but it only last a few days, now I believe it was a withdrawal symptom, nerve pain.

I wish I knew all the answers but I have to hope and believe that one day these weird symptoms will disappear. My mother is in her eighties and she's fitter than me at the moment. 

I'll pop over to your thread shortly, have to ring mother😊

[Sonia009]

HI everyone,

I have a question @ChessieCat, @Gridley. By diluting citalopram in water, does it increase it's bioavailability?  I am feeling dizzy almost immediately after taking my 5.2mg diluted dose which never happened when I was taking the tablet form. 

Thank you

[Gridley]

1 hour ago, Sonia001 said:

I am feeling dizzy almost immediately after taking my 5.2mg diluted dose which never happened when I was taking the tablet form. 

I'm assuming you're making your own liquid, correct?  Or are you taking prescription liquid Citalopram?  

 

The following is from the link about tapering Citalopram.  Tips for tapering off citalopram (Celexa)

 

"Using a combination of tablets and liquid

Rather than switch directly to an all-liquid dose, you may wish to take part of your dose in liquid and part in tablets, gradually converting to all-liquid as you get to lower dosages. This can be very convenient and reduce any problems switching from one form of the drug to another."

 

The above information indicates that problems can result from changing from one form of the drug to another.  You might want to consider trying the method suggested here.

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Gridley