☼ Petunia: recovering from 13 years of antidepressant use

[btdt]

I have not read you last post Petu sorry I will come back later... 

[Petunia]

After a 36 hour wave, I'm back to base line, and I think it may be a little higher. I have a little bit of energy and motivation, just a tiny bit, which is better than the zero I've had for the last 3+ years. I did some washing, brushed my teeth, cleaned the bath, made a smoothie, unblocked the kitchen sink (again) and reorganized my t-shirt/tops drawer based on a method I recently saw in a youtube video.10 Things You've been Doing Wrong #2    Now I can see what I've got.

[direstraits]

that's wonderful,Petunia! you're getting there

[AliG]

  That's great!  Energy, motivation and productivity  are all those things sorely missing in withdrawal. To see them return, even for a short time gives hope for  permanent recovery , eventually.   Happy for you. 

[trouper]

that is wonderful.

 

 

i do wonder if more severe waves make for clearer windows.. that is what i try to tell myself when I'm in the bad ones but i still have yet to see if it is true. 

[btdt]

Glad your back

[mammaP]

I'm thrilled to see that you are having a window Petu, and have the motivation to do things. You must be feeling really chuffed with yourself for all the things you've achieved. I was overjoyed a few weeks ago when I stitched a button on a jacket, it felt like I'd won a marathon! 

 

I'm sure that you will transform that yard into a beautiful garden sooner than you think. 

[Petunia]

Thanks everyone, and MammaP when I read about your button sewing achievement a while back, it made me smile, its like we have reverted back to a younger version of ourselves when we could get a feeling of accomplishment from mastering the most basic things. A couple of days ago I was struggling to tie the laces on my sneakers, but when I did it, I sort of relived the moment of learning how to tie shoe laces.

 

I logged onto my thread to paste some quotes from around the site I want to keep here. But I might as well write a brief update. I'm still doing ok. Not in a window, but not in a wave. I'm about ready to claim victory over what I've come to see as the first stage of protracted withdrawal or ongoing NS destabilization.

 

The hyper-aroused, fight/flight/freeze response which has accompanied me through the majority of my day, for the last few years seems to have finally given way to something more like depression/apathy/anhedonia/demotivation.  I'm still getting a small FFF response when I first wake up, it lasts for about an hour. If I wake too early now, I can usually fall back to sleep. By about 9am, any anxiety/akathisia/dread/shaking etc has stopped and the depression/apathy has kicked in. Its sort of miserable, but I'm not scared of it now like I was before, I understand what's going on and know its a sign of progress, so I'm able to accept it easier. Of course its not pleasant, but I'm not spending my days in agonizing physical terror any more, which I'm pleased about. That wasn't nice and I was scared it it would never end.

 

Now I'm scared this miserable state is never going to end

 

My exercise routine has fallen apart a little bit, but the daily pea protein and kale smoothies are sticking. I'm able to tolerate a few more supplements which I've had trouble with up until now. The one I'm really pleased about being able to take now are the Thorne Basic Nutrients #3  I don't eat anywhere near enough food to get enough nutrition to support optimal recovery, so this is hopefully filling in the gaps. 

 

I've also added some extra zinc and folate. Taurine morning and night again and 200mg magnesium at night 100mg in the morning. Still doing the high doses of vitamin C, I'm using a combination of instant release and sustained release to a total of about 4000mg a day, depending on when I wake up and start taking them.

 

I'm not spending my time doing anything different, but days feel like they are passing faster. I have no motivation for doing most things, but when I do, I'm not hit with a feeling of being overwhelmed like in the past, just apathy and pointlessness, because the anhedonia mostly takes away that normal sense of satisfaction and accomplishment which comes from doing things. So I do stuff because I have to or want to, but get very little out of it.... but that's ok because this is an improvement and one day this will be better too.

 

I woke up from a nightmare a few nights ago, its been a long time since I had a nightmare. I think it was triggered by some inner child healing work I had been doing the night before. I had got in touch with some deep wounds from my early childhood, but was having a bit of trouble completely letting go, I wasn't certain just how bad something had been. I think the nightmare was my subconscious's way of making sure I realized the full impact of something. When I suddenly woke up from the dream, it was then quite easy to join the dots and understand the full impact something had effected on my life. I was literally running for my life in the nightmare, but was trapped by some unseen force and kept getting dragged backwards, back towards the danger.

 

In reality, my actual life wasn't being threatened, but my soul or spirit was being crushed, my potential for joy and happiness was systematically being stolen from me. I was being used as an object to satisfy the emotional needs of people who were supposed to be taking care of me. I had been denied the right to my own self and in the nightmare I had taken my self back and was trying to escape with it, but I was being pursued by these people who were in a murderous rage, I had no right to my own self, I belonged to them and if I didn't comply I had no right to live. Actually it was one person who was after me, the other one was cheering him on. I was alone with no support, running for my life but slipping backwards. A dream couldn't have made it much clearer if it tried.

 

Maybe its time for an update of the 'urgent disposal of my things which were stored at my parents house saga'. No, I'm not going to go into details, apart from saying it was more of the same old lies and manipulations constructed to instantly gratify my dad's sudden whim without any regard for how it would effect me. All the reasons he invented for needing my stuff gone, were never true to begin with. He just made stuff up so that it justified what he wanted to do, until he found something more interesting to do. At least his new project doesn't require me to have to do anything. I'm still pretty angry, about this and my whole life, but I'm working through it.

 

Oh! I almost forgot, I only visited my thread to paste some quotes.

 

 

 I don't think "withdrawal" is a good term for this.  I've seen people have withdrawal from recreational substances and THIS is not it.  I also think "discontinuation  syndrome" is too benign.  The most accurate phrase is "tardive neurological damage," in my opinion.  

 

 

 

Rhi on how drugs change our brains/regowing a new brain through tapering

 

A lot of people, including healthcare practitioners; in fact, I guess, most people-- are operating from entirely the wrong paradigm, or way of thinking, about these meds. They're thinking of them like aspirin--as something that has an effect when it's in your system, and then when it gets out of your system the effect goes away.

That's not what happens with medications that alter neurotransmitter function, we are learning.

What happens when you change the chemistry of the brain is, the brain adjusts its chemistry and structure to try to return to homeostasis, or biochemical and functional balance. It tries to restabilize the chemistry. 

For example: SSRI antidepressants work as "serotonin reuptake inhibitors." That is, they cause serotonin to remain in the space between neurons, rather than being taken back up into the cells to be re-used, like it would be in a normal healthy nondrugged brain.

So the brain, which wants to re-establish normal signaling and function, adapts to the higher level of serotonin between neurons (in the "synapse", the space between neurons where signals get passed along). It does this by removing serotonin receptors, so that the signal is reduced and changed to something closer to normal. It also decreases the amount of serotonin it produces overall. 

To do that, genes have to be turned on and off; new proteins have to be made; whole cascades of chemical reactions have to be changed, which means turning on and off OTHER genes; cells are destroyed, new cells are made; in other words, a complex physiologic remodeling takes place. This takes place over time. The brain does not grow and change rapidly. 

This is a vast oversimplification of the amount of adaptation that takes place in the brain when we change its normal chemistry, but that's the principle.

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay.

When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse.

SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. 

It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. 

I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long. 

With multiple drugs and a history of drug changes and cold turkeys, all of this becomes even more complicated. And if a person is started on these kinds of drugs at an early age before the brain has ever completely established normal mature functioning--well, it can't be good. (All of which is why I recommend an extremely slow taper particularly to anyone with a multiple drug history, a history of many years on meds, a history of past cold turkeys or frequent med changes, and a history of being put on drugs at a young age.)

This isn't intended to scare people, but hopefully to give you some idea of what's happening, and to help you respect and understand the process so you can work with it; ALSO, because you are likely to encounter many, many people who still believe these drugs work kind of like aspirin, or a glass of wine, and all you need to do is stop and get it out of your system. 

Now you can explain to them that no, getting it out of your system is not the issue; the issue is, you need to regrow or at least remodel your brain. This is a long, slow, very poorly understood process, and it needs to be respected. 

 

 

 

 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Petu-- sounds like you've made a major step forward in your recovery, that's wonderful.  It is a whole new set of feelings to explore, understand and tame, but you have some good experience on how to do it.  Boy that inner child stuff can be rough,  I did a lot of that many years ago, and on similar topics it sounds like too.  Like I said, tough, but well worth the effort.  It is so satisfying when pieces fall into place, like with your dream, now that it is clear it can be relegated to the past and moved on from.

 

Wishing you a good day today, and tomorrow.

 

(((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))

[Petunia]

Thank you Tom, your posts are so encouraging, you almost have me convinced this withdrawal/recovery stuff is a big exciting adventure

 

Now I've completely forgotten what I came here to post about

[Petunia]

*Notes

 

Wed 22 - no morning taurine, had a slightly better day, no smoothie

Thurs 23 - no morning taurine, bad day, MSM arrived, 1/4 tspn in smoothie

I've cut the Basic Nutrients back down to 1 a day and having smoothies every second day

Its still early today, and I'm feeling awful, which is normal for this time of the day. One reasonable day in the last week. I need to write a proper update, maybe later.

 

Editing:

 

Its now a bit later. I just finished reading back through my entire thread. Its taken me a few weeks, but I'm glad I did it. What stands out most clearly is that I've got significant cognitive issues related to memory and learning, and I think it may be getting worse.

 

I can't seem to remember things from my immediate past, like, I can't call up the details of things which have happened over the last few years, not in the way they actually happened anyway, when I read about the events... well, its just weird, my current memory is completely different from what I actually wrote.

 

But what's more frightening is that I can't seem to remember clearly how various things are effecting me from day to day, my reality keeps changing... well obviously, I'm in withdrawal, but what I mean is, I seem to be making changes without being aware that I'm actually doing it. Like I'm now not taking any sustained vitamin C at night and I'm only taking about 4000mg through the day. But I don't remember making the decision to do that and I didn't document it. But from reading back through my thread I can see that I was doing better when I took it at night and was taking a total of 8000mg a day.

 

I also couldn't remember why I ordered MSM. When it arrived I had to spend ages going back through my browsing history, trying to find what I had read which made me think it might be a good idea to try it. Eventually I found what it was, but now, one day later, I can't remember again.

 

This is frightening on a whole new level. I have no clue if my memory of the last week is even accurate. I need to be able to retain information from day to day in order to function.

 

From reading through my thread its also obvious that physically, a lot of things have improved and the turning point physically seemed to be when I started taking high dose vitamin C. But from that point on, something else declined. I don't know, I'm struggling to make sense of this now.

 

Being forced to confront my past via sorting through boxes seemed to arouse a wave of bad memories and emotional trauma from my past, which might have been too much stress to deal with. Or maybe the last few years of high cortisol and extreme fear has done further damage to my brain, I know I've read something about the damaging effects of long term stress on the brain. Maybe my hippocampus is getting fried by my own out of control chemicals.

 

I just swallowed down more C, I'm going back up to 8000mg.

 

... and here's another question I have for myself, why did I stop taking tauine again in the morning when it had been helping. This is the second time I've done this.

 

Its like there is a part of me I'm not aware of, which sometimes gets control and tries to sabotage my efforts to get well.

 

What is that part? I've got some fear of fear going on, I can see that. A big spiral of 'what ifs' has been swirling around me all morning. Its because this is new, I'm sleeping better, some of the old symptoms which I had become accustomed to have subsided, but now, I'm dealing with something different and its terrifying, my body is working better, but my mind is being shut down for repairs. It hasn't worked all that well since this started, but its like the major mind/brain renovations have just begun.

 

Clutching at straws here, I don't have a clue what's happening, but I'm scared its going to get worse and I wont be able to continue functioning at even a basic, survival level.

 

Fear, fear, fear, that's all there is, but now its psychological. My body is calm and relaxed, apart from a gentle churning in my stomach. There are no chills, no sweats, no shaking, no internal vibrations, no akathisia, no surges of adrenaline. They were there a little bit, earlier on, but they are gone now.

 

In its place is a frozen mental terror. My mind is like a terrified animal cowering in the corner of a dark cave, trying desperately to remain hidden, its shaking in terror, knowing that its time is limited.

 

I'm losing my mind, and I've got mixed feelings about that, but my mind is completely freaking out, I wish it would calm down. But it can't because all its ever known of its own existence is itself, and now, it has to let go and acknowledge something more and trust that whatever that something else is, it will be enough.

 

Right now its whispering very loudly, "Its Alzheimers, all the drugs and stress has caused early onset Alzheimers and there's no cure for that, just a miserable decline into complete helplessness where you will be nothing but a burden on other people...is that what you want? You had better figure this out or that's what's going to happen"

 

I came here to my thread with the intention of writing an update about my last week, but I can't. It looks like I couldn't do it the last time I tried either. So instead I will try and find an image which captures what its been like.

 

I couldn't decide between these two:

 

 

and

 

[nz11]

Great images Petu .

 

Read #1016 Glad you are seeing some gains Then read #1019 and seems the gains vapourized...anyway i am sure they will reappear again.

I can sure relate to feeling like we have to relearn stuff again. What seemed so easy to do in the past is definitley a big task in wdl.

I can remember at about 2 yrs when the morning horror seemed to recede ..not go away but sort of became manageable. It was then i started to feel  though losing a lot of battles i may if i stay the course win the war. What a relief that was .

I have found that my gains are so imperceivable they are often only seen in hindsight.... or come as little surprises..

Hey loved your contribution to Fresh's major general song.

[btdt]

 

Its like there is a part of me I'm not aware of, which sometimes gets control and tries to sabotage my efforts to get well.

 

Yes in my experience this is how it feels and waking up to see changes were made can seem there is another part of you but really what I have come to is there are times the part of myself I see as being in control goes to sleep and then things get messed up.  I think it is the same sort of state I lived in while for a long time while on drugs .. consciousness shut down.  I was wondering around living my life looking I guess ok cause they did not lock me up yet I was actually MIA I put a lot of thought and work into this topic a long time ago on the Topix website that is now gone. 

 

I feel I did a lot of things while in this state that were not good for my life and it comes and goes still. I would venture forth that only when it started to ease once off the drugs and some healing had taken place did I realize this state of lost consciousness existed.  As I started to heal and my brain could once again engage in a more fully conscious way did I realize I had been missing the conscious self.  From time to time it slips away once again and I am left alone stumbling around doing whatever the best I can I hope. This is now the yard stick I use to measure my health... how conscious am I and how well can I think.. those two things. 

 

""Its Alzheimers, all the drugs and stress has caused early onset Alzheimers and there's no cure for that, just a miserable decline into complete helplessness where you will be nothing but a burden on other people"

 

Yes on my mind a lot actually.  The fact of being non functional and knowing I will not live in care this is something I talked about in a post on here recently tho it is not in my own thread. 

 

I was reading about a person here with seizures the other day and as I looked up the drug kreppa and noticed it was used to treat Alzheimers I thought to myself best remember that drug but the truth is it is not a good drug and has all sorts of psych problems associated with it. 

 

It could be you stopped the taurine because it was activating as I recall Alto saying it did have that effect on her and take it only in very tiny amounts when I get that too much coffee feeling I will try 1/4 -1/2 a capsule. 

 

I do the same thing all the time... all the time it is one reason you don't see much on my thread that is not jumping around.... I don't seem to stay of one mind too long. 

 

Your newly off compared to me Petu and it there is any proof in my puddling that could help you it may be that I had this all thru.....only part of the time did I recognize it ... even when I do there are other times I don't and I know it.  Also when I am in a don't stage I am also plagued with other things like derealiazation  that is really bad... I got on a train yesterday went to another city in what seemed an altered state... this is the sort of thing that comes with it. However I did have an extended time after 3 years off where this was much less noticeable so I do think it can heal.. I am not sure why it is back so strong for me now but it is. 

Wish I had more insight but for now this is it. 

 

I wondered too if this is how people got dx with having two personalities which is supposed to be caused only by great server trauma... I wonder when that hit the DSMV likely after prozac was invented or other psych drugs... bet it is drug induced that is my take on it.  There is much more than we know for a long time I thought it was going to be Grace Jackson that put this into context as a few things she wrote suggested she had a handle on it... but it seems she has dropped off the map.  

peace

 

Just like you I tend to change and stop things and cannot recall why if there was a reason I don't know what it is or was.  yes it is aggravating confusing and often frightening.  

[btdt]

Maybe this will help you I would like to ask her if she has this too... she is calming if nothing else.

 

[Adagiooo]

Petunia,

 

Another eloquent post despite your memory problems. I don't have any practical advice but it did jump out at me that you, at some point decided to stop taking the taurine twice. Maybe there's a connection, maybe not.

 

Anyway, you seem to be making great strides and I'm wishing for you that your memory problems clear up very soon. Take care and try not to be scared. I'm betting this is just a temporary setback.

[JanCarol]

Wow this has turned into a deep thread!  I'm glad you are getting such stirring support while you have been struggling.  Of course I'm sorry you've been struggling.

 

I came here today (for selfish reasons) to see if customs let your DHEA in.  And to give a tip.

 

So did you get your DHEA?  Have you tried it?  What do you think?

 

iHerb will not ship it to me, because they have a special arrangement with Australian Customs.  If Customs doesn't allow it, iHerb won't ship it.  This is why iHerb gets stuff through Customs so quickly.  VitaCost might be different (and therefore takes longer to receive).

 

I went on an "anti-TGA" rant this time last year when I realized that DHEA would help me, but I'm not allowed to have it here.  Additionally, when I ask my doctor and compounding pharmacist about it, they gently steer me away from it, suggesting "adaptogenic herbs" and other crap like "dehormonized bovine adrenal glands" that cost a fortune and may be nourishing, but very limited value.  It was as though I was asking for poison!

 

Well I fooled them all by fooling myself.  I ordered "bovine adrenal extract" glandular supplement.  Because it contains the hormones, it includes DHEA in it.  This one is by Nutricology, and it just takes a tiny amount per day, and seems to help.  Because it doesn't SAY it has DHEA in it, it gets through customs.  The irony is that the cows are from New Zealand, the product is from the USA, and I have it shipped to Australia!  I didn't realize until I talked to my herbalist about it, that I was probably getting some DHEA that way - and in small amounts (probably safer than the USA doses, as cheap as they are.)

 

I send you windowly wishes.

[Frances72]

Hello Petunia,

I'm curious do you have wifi or a wired internet? Laptop or iPad? I have not read all posts, really still getting started. When I met my husband he was suffering with sleep problems, insomnia, panic, anxiety, and the list goes on. We worked out it was mostly (if not all) being caused by wifi. We now turn our mobiles off at night. We bought a modem that is not wifi but wired internet and plugs we can use through the house using the phone lines. We make sure the blue tooth is off in the car. My daughter and I are sensitive to it also. 

 

Wifi is very bad news, especially if one is close to the router or using an iPad or mobile for long periods of time. We've had so many people thank us for this information. I need to start a thread on wifi/microwave radiation technology, unless someone else already has?

 

Wishing you all the best! 

[Petunia]

Thanks to everyone who posted recently, I haven't visited my own thread in a while because I haven't been feeling too bad. Not in a window, but a slightly higher baseline and I just didn't have much to write about. But I do now, I've been hit with another wave. Even so, the improvements continue because the big difference with this one is that it didn't take me the best part of a day to recognize and accept that I was actually in a wave.

 

That might sound strange, you would think that getting a sudden increase in symptoms would be obvious. But one of the features of my waves has always been severe memory issues and confusion, so I can't seem to figure out what's going on.

 

But this morning it only took me just over 2 hours to realize what was happening. I'm feeling much worse, this has happened before. It got better again, this must be a wave, this is the normal pattern of recovery. Oh! I'm going to be ok, this is just a wave.

 

Then, after realizing I was in a wave, I realized that I had figured it out much quicker than I usually do, which seemed to be more evidence of recovery.

 

I'm still feeling awful though, so I don't think I'll be writing much, its back to basic survival mode again until it passes.

 

So did you get your DHEA?  Have you tried it?  What do you think?

 

 

Yeah, I got both of them. The 25mg one arrived quite fast, (worldwidelabs) the 5mg one took ages, (evitamins.com) but arrived eventually. Neither of them had DHEA listed on the customs label. I also ordered some pregnonolone from somewhere and that got through too.

 

Its not that I was super keen to try them, I had been researching various things and thought they might help, so I went to iHerb as I usually do to check out price and reviews etc and found out that I wasn't allowed to have it here in Australia. Of course this made me furious and set off various conspiracy theory alarm bells and put me on a mission to obtain something I felt I had a right to obtain. I hate being told I can't have something when there is no good reason for me not to have it. I guess I've got control issues. (childhood stuff)

 

But I haven't tried any of it yet. I've made the mistake in the past of making too many changes too close together and not being sure what kind of effect things are having. I've recently started on high dose C, trying some multi vits again and I've been taking the threonate version of magnesium for about a week, see my post about it here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/?p=159015

 

How does it feel like the adrenal extract is helping?

 

The irony is that the cows are from New Zealand, the product is from the USA, and I have it shipped to Australia!

 

I experienced this exact same irony with some manuka honey I ordered a while ago. Honey from New Zealand, product from USA, shipped to Australia. I got lucky with iHerb with this one. They wont ship most of their manuka honey here, but apparently, this one was ok or it hadn't made it onto their 'don't ship to Australia' list yet. They wont send melatonin or MSM here either   Which I don't understand, because you can buy both of those here OTC.

 

Hello Petunia,

I'm curious do you have wifi or a wired internet? Laptop or iPad? I have not read all posts, really still getting started. When I met my husband he was suffering with sleep problems, insomnia, panic, anxiety, and the list goes on. We worked out it was mostly (if not all) being caused by wifi. We now turn our mobiles off at night. We bought a modem that is not wifi but wired internet and plugs we can use through the house using the phone lines. We make sure the blue tooth is off in the car. My daughter and I are sensitive to it also. 

 

Wifi is very bad news, especially if one is close to the router or using an iPad or mobile for long periods of time. We've had so many people thank us for this information. I need to start a thread on wifi/microwave radiation technology, unless someone else already has?

 

Wishing you all the best! 

 

This is interesting and I've often wondered if I'm being effected by wifi and other EMFs. At one time I got a bit obsessed and paranoid about it, thinking I was being 'tortured' by all the electrical appliances and wiring in my house. I started being scared to use the microwave. I still used it, because I've been so sick and its convenient, but I started to worry about it.

 

But what stopped me from exploring all this further was there have been periods where we have experienced extended power outages and it didn't seem to make any difference to the way I felt or to the quality of my sleep.

 

Frances, its your mum who has withdrawal isn't it? Is she now sensitive to it too? Now that you turn things off at night, is your husband now free from all the symptoms he was having?

 

I wonder how many others have these sensitivities. Its almost impossible to escape from EMFs completely with the world we live in now, unless you go and live somewhere away from civilization. This is scary stuff.

 

This just reminded me of something else I got obsessive about during early withdrawal, when I didn't yet know what was going on, those twirly, florescent energy saving light bulbs. I thought they were causing my brain and body to be feeling the way it was. So I changed them all, it didn't make much difference though, apart from things started looking slightly better because they were no longer bathed in that weird, unnatural light.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Here's an update prior to today's wave.

 

Its undeniable that physically I'm feeling, lets say on the whole about 60% better than during the worst times. The intensity of many of the worst symptoms has decreased and with some of them I don't get them any more at all on some days. But I get different things happening with my body all the time. Yesterday I had a lot of pain in the tops of my feet, shins and slightly going up into my thighs. Today that's gone. The day before, the pain in my left shoulder was back, but that went away again. Sometimes I will get sudden pains in my upper back, shoulders, radiating up into my head, like sudden muscle tension which isn't relieved by anything. This used to evolve into several days of intense pain involving my jaw, teeth, head etc. But lately its been very short lived, like minutes. I went through a stage of getting quite a bit of tingling/numbness, Paresthesia, I think its called... in my hands, feet and arms. Most of the time it was on the left side of my body. It all stopped. But now my left little finger has been getting it again a bit.

The morning adrenaline rushes have changed in nature, they used to be sharp, well defined surges in a localized part of my chest and stomach. Now they feel more like a general pressure in those areas, radiating out into my limbs. Not better or worse, just different and still very uncomfortable and I wish it would stop.

But with this improvement/change, something new has arrived and I don't really have a name for it. I will try. Its a kind of existential clarity which is both terrifying and freeing at the same time.

 

I'm going to post this now because I've already written more than I really had the energy for.

 

 

 

[JanCarol]

Hey Petunia, thanks for answering.  Pregnenolone is not controlled by TGA - yet.  That is the direction I went when I got so upset about being denied DHEA.  Maybe athletes use DHEA to cheat?  That's the only reason I can think of for its banning.  Except - then why do my ortho-doc and compounding chemist make "tsk-tsk" noises at me when I ask for it?  Supposedly, if I can get a doc to prescribe it, and a compounding chemist to make it, I can have it here in Oz for about $100 a month (as opposed to US$5 / month!)

 

Melatonin is not available OTC - the "melatonin products" here are all homeopathic dilutions of melatonin, meaning they contain no melatonin. You can get it with prescription from compounding chemist.  I used to get melatonin shipped here, maybe that has changed.  

 

MSM is available here OTC, but - only in combination tablets or as a powder.  When  I first moved here I was taking 10-15 grams of MSM per day for pain and cleansing - and I had to have it shipped in.  I've noticed lately that iHerb will no longer ship it here.  I guess the good thing about iHerb is it makes it easy to check the laws without digging around on the TGA site to find the status of them.  If it's illegal, iHerb won't ship it.

 

I nearly did what you did - let my anger control me - and planned get it the next time I went to the USA and carry it in.  I carry so many vitamins when I travel, the chances of getting caught are pretty slim.  But then I got an image in my mind of "Jan on Border Security Patrol" being hauled off in handcuffs for bringing a "dangerous substance" into the country.  Sheesh.  I've heard it can be similar in Europe, where many of these supplements must be prescribed.

 

Yah, for awhile there, when it was convenient, I was turning off the Wifi broadcast on my modem to control EMF.  Different modem, trickier to adjust it now, so I've forgotten about that.  I've read horrible things about EMF and Wifi, and am glad I'm not chained to my mobile phone like so many people are.  (plus my mobile is not a "smart phone" so it's not signalling all the time, just keeping a passive radiation - the kind that disorients bees).  At least it's in another room most of the time.

 

 

 

This just reminded me of something else I got obsessive about during early withdrawal, when I didn't yet know what was going on, those twirly, florescent energy saving light bulbs. I thought they were causing my brain and body to be feeling the way it was. So I changed them all, it didn't make much difference though, apart from things started looking slightly better because they were no longer bathed in that weird, unnatural light.

Oh I despise fluorescent lights!  And in America, it is illegal to make incandescents illegal.  You can still buy incandescents here, but I think you have to promise your first born child and slaughter a calf.  Hubby loves the darned twirly fluorescent bulbs because they use so little electric and global warming and eco-friendly and cheap and all that.  But I feel like I am staggering around in the dark.

 

It is a tradition in my family to use the brightest incandescent bulb that a fixture will hold, and in winter (different from winter here, granted) to turn all the lights on and bathe in the warm light.  We love light.  Now I feel like - even when it is 35 degrees hot outside, I'm huddled down in the dark, dim, fluorescent world - and Aussies just don't understand what I am talking about.  I'm not overly thrilled with LED lighting, either.  It's better, but it's still so blue, so depressing.

 

Our home has floor to ceiling windows - which is nice - everywhere I look it is green.  But we are surrounded by trees which means that the sun doesn't really come in the house.  It's great for keeping cool in summer - but sux in the wintertime.

 

 

 

How does it feel like the adrenal extract is helping?

 

It's subtle.  Like I cannot tell really, the difference between taking 150 mg thyroid a day and 180 mg thyroid.  It's subtle, at the higher dose I might have some burning heat, but no more energy.

 

Likewise, the adrenal is subtle.  It "feels better" than the "Wilson's dehormonized adrenal extract" (porcine) - which I felt like I was eating pure money with no benefit.  If only because I only spend $10 for 100 days, the adrenal feels better.  I don't feel charged or wired or even anxious, I still crawl through the day like an invalid.  

 

I am still making adjustments to the adrenal / thyroid combination.  My ortho-doc said that I would be "overstimulating" with the adrenal glandular extract - so I am keeping that dose as low as possible, and supplementing for the lack of the Wil$$ons adrenal supplement by using milk thistle, liver extract, eating organ meats (we have a lambs fry coming upon the menu soon).  I will be adding Siberian and Ayurvedic ginseng and maybe Rhodiola?  in about 2 weeks time.  Again, "adaptogenic herbs" for adrenal, without stimulating it.

 

Apparently, if I stimulate the adrenal too much, it's like running a marathon and I crash.  So it's all very slow and careful.  

 

Let me know if you ever decide to try the DHEA, it is what my Doctor Friend in the USA takes for her adrenal fatigue (and possible chronic lyme).  She snorted when I said it was illegal here.  She's like:  it's what you need - but it's illegal?  She was on the same page as we are.  

 

Additionally, she is the reason I went to "live" adrenal glandular extract.  I told her about Wilson's adrenal "dehormonized" supplement (which, btw, is half the price if you get it in the USA, it's because of legitimizing it with the TGA that we pay such a dear price for it) and she snorted!  (much like the way my ortho-doc and compounding chemist snorted when I asked for DHEA).  She said:  "what's the point of that?"  Then, she added:  "I used to poo-pooh about glandulars, but now I feel as though I couldn't survive without them."  It was that statement which sent me to the adrenal extract.  

 

Keep in mind, too, that it will contain - along with the DHEA - cortisol, pregnenolone, testosterone, progesterone and estrogen.  Someone having trouble with cortisol, for example, might not be able to take this.

 

From:  http://www.drlam.com/articles/adrenal_fatigue_glandular_and_herbal_therapy.asp

 

 

One of the primary set backs in the modern day use of glandulars is the difficulty of standardized testing and thus lack of research. Modern scientific studies involve isolation of variables into one variable to be involved in a double blind experimental setting. This is clearly not possible in the case of glandulars, which contain enzymes, vitamins, fatty acids, amino acids, minerals, neurotransmitters and a host of nutrients in addition to the tissues within the gland. Testing would not be conducted on any single substance or hormone, such as cortisol or thyroxine, but a number of different substances that are present within each glandular extract.

 

and

 

Glandulars contain many substances including hormones. The major problem that arises is not knowing how much of these hormones or other substances are available in these extracts since they can vary from batch to batch and animal to animal. Also, since there are so many substances within these glandulars, it is difficult to know which of the substances is having a therapeutic influence and how they interact with the myriad other substances in the body. Because they have so many substances in them it is difficult to determine and measure what kind of effect they may have in the long run when ingested as a supplement.Nevertheless, there is little doubt that glandulars do possess healing properties if used properly based on antidotal evidence for over 80 years.

The best glandulars usually comes from freeze-dried extracts from organic cows raised in New Zealand. There has been no Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy in New Zealand.

 

The variations between animals and batches is why the TGA has not approved use of thyroid glandulars in the treatment of thyroid.

 

The same page has more info on Adrenal, and recommends Isocort as the "most standardized" adrenal glandual.  (mine is not this, though it is from happy, clean NZ cows!).

 

There are also several warnings on the page for those of us in extreme adrenal fatigue - which is why I'm continuing to take in the organ meats and liver extract - to get as close to the enzymatic and vitamin/mineral profile of the Wilson's dehormonized adrenal supplement.

 

Sorry, I'll shut up now.  Hope this stuff is helpful to you - and you see the next window soon!  <3

[JanCarol]

PS I've been trying the Mag l-Threonate, too - I just substitute it for one of my night Mag Glycinates.....I cannot take it in the morning because that's when I have to take my calcium, and I don't want them to cancel each other out....  Maybe I could put it on in the afternoon?

 

I can't say I feel any different.  MeiMei and I seem to agree that there's a huge cog-fog going on, and it's difficult to parse out what is lithium, what is iatrogenic damage, what is adrenal fatigue, and just what are these supplements doing?

 

<3 some more.

[Petunia]

Thanks for all that JC,  still working my way through it. Not having a very good day today. If pregnonolone is not yet controlled here, why do you think it comes up on its iHerb page with this - 'Due to regulations, this product is not allowed to be shipped to the country you selected.'

 

...so the melatonin I saw on the shelf at my health food store would have been not really melatonin? That makes sense now.

 

But I'm still confused about MSM. The MSM I got was crystals, not powder or tablets and this kind of product comes up as restricted to Australia too. (from iHerb)  But I eventually bought mine from gapsaustralia.com, located there in QLD, so once again I'm confused as to why it can't be shipped here from iHerb with my other supplements. Not that I really care, the jar I got contains enough to last for months.

 

I'm having a really bad day, its all so confusing and frustrating, I guess I'll do some research and hopefully learn why DHEA is so dangerous that we need to be protected from it.

[JanCarol]

Sorry about your day.  I just learned that Slippery Elm is on the restricted list too!  WTF?

 

I feel like we're living behind a sort of Impervious Supplement Curtain.  I think I got my pregnenalone from Vitacost, and may have carried it into the country.  But it was recommended to me by an Aussie naturopath - so - maybe it's one of those "practitioner only" things.

 

Please get some rest, so you can feel better.  <3

[Petunia]

I'm still in the wave that started on Monday, so this is day 4.

 

I don't know how else to describe this one apart from saying I'm just really scared. Frozen in terror. There are no specific thoughts, just mind numbing fear of some nameless, faceless horror.

 

Of course there are all the associated physical symptoms which come along with such high levels of fear, like nausea, body tension, chills, shaking, GI issues. I'm trying my best to stay in the moment and not let secondary fear thoughts invade me.

 

But they keep coming anyway. Brain tumor? Mysterious disease? Demonic possession? Psychotic depression? (maybe it does really exist)

 

I still can't get used to how it can get SO bad so suddenly after some obvious improvement. This ongoing lack of control and unpredictability is pushing me to my limits of sanity.

 

But its different from how it was 2 years ago and even a year ago. The waves are evolving into different kinds of waves, these ones scare me more, they are more in my head than in my body. Tinnitus has been really loud the last 3 days, but its not so bad again today. I always have a high pitched tone in the middle of my head, and that rarely changes much, but the one which fluctuates with waves is a sound in my right ear, its a very high frequency tone which almost drives me insane when it gets loud and doesn't stop.

 

Please make this stop...someone? Something? God? Benevolent deity? I've got nothing left inside to hang on with...its all been burned away. There's nothing left of the person I used to be and nothing seems to matter any more, there is just this overwhelming suffering and that's all there is room for because its so huge.

 

I keep forgetting what day it is and what month. Did I take my supplements? Did I eat something? Is there something I need to do? Why can't I fix this? There's nothing here to fix, only incapacitating fear. Fear raging through a vast emptiness.

 

I don't want to be doing this any more, I guess I'll stop writing now, its not helping today.

 

I was going to post a video which summed up my conclusions about my DHEA research, but I forgot. Maybe if I find it again I'll post it.

 

Edited June 11, 2015 by Petunia
added video

[Skyler]

Hi Petunia, I'm very sorry you are feeling so scared. I remember being overwhelmed with fear, it did not last as long as what you have endured, but it was plenty long enough.  My thoughts and warm wishes are with you.  

 

You are a good man Charlie Brown.  Hope you get a big hug today.

[AliG]

I wish we all had a doctor, like this. What have you decided, about DHEA  ?  I hope you feel better , soon.  I can identify , with a lot of your thoughts.  I've gone through similar  thinking.  "Frozen in terror", rings a bell, as does, "fear raging through a vast emptiness ". 

[Petunia]

Thanks Skyler,
 

I wish we all had a doctor, like this. What have you decided, about DHEA ? I hope you feel better , soon. ..

Thanks AliG. I haven't decided anything about DHEA. If I wasn't in withdrawal and as sick as I am, I would probably be doing what this doctor recommends, getting some tests done, trying to maximize my health via natural means as I age.

But the way I'm feeling right now (again), I'm scared to take the supplements I'm already taking. Paranoia is kicking in and I'm looking suspiciously at everything I'm doing. Part of me knows (hopes) this is just a wave and that it will pass. But the rest of me is in shock, never expecting it would get this bad again.

Sleep last night was strange too. I was asleep, but awake at the same time and the fear was there in the awake part of me, I didn't get a break last night, not really. Part of me stayed awake all night keeping guard, trying to protect me, but from what? I don't care if I don't sleep, I just need a break from the terror and I usually get it later in the day and through sleep.

My mind/memory is playing tricks on me I think. My memory of my entire life pre-drugs is that this fear was with me all the time and now its back because I'm no longer medicated, this is the way its going to be from now on. But that's not true. I've always been sensitive and certain situations would make me anxious, but that's it, I haven't been filled with terror like this my entire life.

Over 2 years off and I'm back in survival mode again after feeling like I was really starting to turn a corner. Nothing happened, nothing changed. No increase in stress that I can see. Maybe it was this:

 

 

http://www.tesis.lebedev.ru/en/magnetic_storms.html?m=6&d=9&y=2015

[Petunia]

Fingers crossed I think this wave may be coming to an end. I was able to have a much needed shower and go and do some grocery shopping. Its evening here and I'm feeling like I'm back to my baseline for this time of the day.

 

My thoughts had been veering away from what I normally consider to be reality, so its a relief to be feeling like I'm a bit more grounded again.

[Muddles]

Good to hear Petu. Fingers crossed. Thinking of you.

[Petunia]

Thanks Muddles.

Last night I had to go out at 10:30 to drop my daughter somewhere and I was feeling normal   What I mean is I was perfectly fine in every way. I noticed it and told myself that I need to write this on my thread just so that I have proof that my brain and NS is capable of behaving in a healthy way.

 

Its a bit hard to relate to the way I was feeling last night, because its morning again and same old stuff is back. But last night I felt really good. Not just ok, but happy, relaxed, I had genuine good feelings just being alive. What made it even better was that I wasn't even doing anything to make myself feel good. No stimulating substance or activity, nothing addictive, no thinking about anything in the future. I was perfectly happy in the moment doing very ordinary things.

 

So that 5 day wave is over and I'm back to baseline. Hopefully the more pleasant evenings will continue, but I don't know yet. I'm feeling a bit traumatized by the intensity of this week, my confidence has taken a bit of a hit, but I'm relived it only lasted 5 days. It did end, even though at times I was sure it wouldn't.

 

If the way I was feeling last night was a real window, and I think it was, then if life is going to be like that all the time eventually, its definitely worth hanging on for.  For a few hours I was completely comfortable in my body and in the world. Life felt safe. It was better than the way I was before meds and while on them.

[btdt]

" Life felt safe. It was better than the way I was before meds and while on them.'

 

Wow this is wonderful to here Petu. I did not think that possible.  I did feel better than ever on Effexor but I think I was stoned.. or manic...it is all so hard to sort out. I did put something about my own time here but recall being asked not to talk so much about myself on others threads... so will just say I hope this is hint of what is to come in and hope it is not long coming. 

I wish you peace and hope it comes to stay soon

[Addax]

I'm so glad you had such a great night and am keeping my fingers crossed that many more will follow.

[Adagiooo]

Petunia, how wonderful you had/have that window after your 5 day wave. I hope your window stays wide open and you feel the soft breeze of life caressing you. Much peace to you. ((((((((Hugs))))))))

[LoveandLight]

Yay!

[Petunia]

WARNING Long term protracted withdrawal still symptomatic after 2 years drug free.

 

Thanks BT, Addax, Ada L&L, I had to go back and read what you were all talking about.... a window?

 

I guess so, that must have been me who wrote about it one Friday night. I've been feeling a huge conflict about posting anything the past few days. Apart from that weird blissful few hours that one night, I've been feeling like I'm right back where I was 2 years ago. Not exactly the same, symptoms are a bit different, but I'm feeling just as bad and scared and hopeless.

 

I can feel myself slipping into a kind of secondary depression because of this ongoing lack of control over being able to do anything to influence the quality of my life, but being constantly bombarded with information telling me I can.

 

Unless I just stay in my room, staring at the wall, I'm constantly faced with my own hopeless reality mirrored back to me because of the complete contrast between my life and most of everything else. But there's so little understanding and recognition and validation and I start to feel like I'm back in the seventeenth century, suspected of being a witch.... goodness knows why, but I'm feeling persecuted just for existing really.

 

When I had been drug free less than a year, it was ok, and then into year two, it was also somewhat 'acceptable', but now I'm feeling the pressure of something new. The feeling isn't new, its shame, but the reason for it is. I can't fix this. I've never let something keep me down for so long. This is not me, I've always been able to pull myself out of the bad stuff, some way or other. Either through my own sheer stubbornness or by finding a novel solution.

 

I had such a bad day yesterday and felt like I was completely out of options. I felt sick of everything, myself my life, all my methods of trying to get through the difficult days. I was dizzy, nauseous, shaking, going hot/cold, surges of adreneline/fear. Brain not working properly, sounds effecting me physically. The thought of swallowing down more supplements was making me feel even worse, but I was scared not to take them. Eat something? Don't eat something? Find a distraction on the internet? Avoid too much technology? Drink some milk for the calming effect? Don't drink milk? I have information overload.

 

So I decided no computer yesterday, but I was still in my frozen in terror state, so I just sat on my bed and let everything come that wanted to come... the thoughts, the feelings, whatever. I was going to be completely alone for the day, so I thought it would be ok because at least I could be in a quiet surroundings. But it wasn't long before one neighbor started up a weed trimmer. So I was feeling that in my body for about half an hour. Then eventually that was over. Half an our later another neighbor started up a lawnmower and cut not only his grass, but the entire strip of verge running along the street.  A little later the weed trimmer guy started up his ride on mower, by this time I was at the point of almost not being able to take it, akathisia had started and I needed to do something because I couldn't take any more.

 

But I was caught between a rock and a hard place, between akathisia and agoraphobia (a frozen in terror kind of feeling). The akathisia won yesterday and I got in my car and drove to a somewhat ok nature trail walk not too far away. I couldn't handle my local park.

 

About one minute after I arrived and was starting to calm down by leaning on a railing looking at some grass, a bunch of construction vehicles arrived. Right at that moment was when they were going to put in a new lamp post, right there where I was trying to absorb some nature treatment. I took off down the trail in desperation. I was having a growing sense of being pursued by something which was trying to kill me.

 

I got far enough away from the noise so that I couldn't hear it and leaned on another railing watching some water and a few ducks in the distance. Once again I felt my body start to calm a little and I realized I was noticing the trees. I was starting to see things and they weren't terrifying me. But the peace didn't last long because then a helicopter started circling around overhead. It went away after a few minutes, but by that time I felt totally defeated. Which ever way I try and turn, I get outmaneuvered. I have no control over my experience of life. A little bit of something else broke inside of me and I stopped caring a little bit more, then I didn't know what to do, it didn't seem to matter one way or the other, so I kept walking to the end of the trail for no reason apart from I didn't know what else to do. Then I turned around and walked back. Then I went home. Tried to eat something, felt even sicker and then got a migraine.

 

Then I had an idea, if I couldn't walk peacefully in real life nature, maybe I could find a nature walk video on youtube and go on a virtual nature walk. I found several of them. One was a walk through some swamp lands in Louisiana, another was some beautiful UK woodlands. But something about watching the motion on my computer screen was making me feel worse, I was getting sicker. So I stopped watching it and tried to sleep, but it turned into a toxic nap and I was getting delirious and waking with sudden panic.

 

By this time it was about 4pm and I was about as miserable as I've ever been in my entire life. I was over 2 years completely drug free and still really sick and unable to find anything to give me any relief.

 

Today hasn't been quite so bad. But its little consolation. I still have no life. I'm still terrified that this is as good as its ever going to get. I'm still feeling isolated, abandoned, helpless, confused and filled with a constant low level panic as I'm watching the rest of the world move forward while I'm being left behind. I'm never going to catch up. I'm always going to be a little out of sync with everything around me... like a ghost, here but not here.

 

I wasn't always like this, but I have to keep reminding myself, because it feels like its always been this way and always will be. There is only this moment, stretched into eternity, this is the other side of heaven, the one you never wanted to visit. You know how you read descriptions of hell in various places, well I remember it and sort of brushing it off, thinking its a bunch of fiction, invented to scare us into doing what someone else wants us to do. But the phrase 'eternal torment' feels pretty accurate about now.

 

Its ironic really, in all my years of spiritual seeking I was hoping for the eternal bliss, instead I got the opposite. Maybe we all have to walk through hell in one way or another before we get to heaven. Walking through it is one thing, but feeling stuck here for ever is what makes it unbearable. That's the one quality which turns something difficult into something unbearable, the belief that there will be no end. But its not a matter of choice any more, withdrawal kills off the imagination, the ability to believe that something better is around another corner. Waves wash away everything but the present moment, this is all there is, forever.... until the wave subsides, then a more normal kind of perspective returns, for a while.

 

Its early evening here again now, physically, I'm feeling pretty normal again. Psychologically I'm feeling traumatized by what I've been through and continue to go through, but I could deal with this, this feels like a party compared with what I feel like in the mornings and day time.

 

Someone asked me to find something which remains constant from morning to evening. The one thing is awareness. But everything which is contained in that awareness is changed from morning to evening. The lens through which my experience is felt is a different lens during the day. The lenses sometimes change gradually, other times the transition is abrupt. Today the change has been gradual.

 

As my part of the earth rotates around to face the sun every morning, my nervous system starts to vibrate and heat up, the pressure builds, like something placed in a microwave. Various sub systems, sputter and get glitchy, sometimes they go offline only to start up again later in the day. Something is being slowly fried and it feels like its me, my body from the inside out. Every day this slow cooking schedule is adhered to. My brain and nervous system are slowly being transformed during the day by mysterious energies from the sun.... well that's what it feels like.

 

The last week, two weeks, three weeks.... I've lost track, its been bad again.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

 

but being constantly bombarded with information telling me I can.

 

Well, not from me I don't think.

 

I still firmly believe that the best thing to do for wd syndrome is to do the same thing nearly every day and use minimal supplementation.

 

Eat 3 meals a day (including breakfast and do this even if you have to force yourself to), lie down and rest (if sleep does not come) at the same time each night and get out of bed in the morning at the same time when sleep will no longer come.

 

1/2 hour gentle walk at the same time every day. Drink moderate water. Limit supplementation, especially of the more exotic stuff. Like smoothies. Too concentrated of a concoction all at once but ymmv....

 

I believe that this kind of regimen may help to give the nervous system a framework upon which to lean and depend upon while it does its repair work.

 

And of course, you know how I feel about getting into the spiritual and psychological stuff when wd is bad: don't do it. When you told me you keep listening to satsangs on youtube for relaxation and doing inner child work I thought it was not a good idea but who am I to say? What you fill your day to day thinking with (I think) should be light fare, not deep stuff. Who knows what kind of effect that has on a compromised nervous system. I concentrated on spider solitaire and word games and jigsaw puzzles. Far cry from my normal geeky diet of stuff.

 

Of course I am probably full of it and this is just like other well meaning advice - good only for the person who gives it. I am not saying this is the key to health but it is a good way for normal people to live life, why not us ravaged by a nervous system run amok?

 

I am still not back to normal. I am not able to clean house properly (it is still got a scary element to it for some reason) and opening the mail is difficult. Had to pay and then get an extension on my taxes because I could not do them.  But I am slowly getting there, the torment of 2 winters ago has left me for the time being. The things above are what I did. I'm keeping up at a demanding and stressful job, helping a new owner get her business out of the rut the old owner ran it into. I am needed and appreciated. But it takes work and patience to wait for things instead of trying to make them happen. And I waited.

 

I hope things turn around for you sooner rather than later. Not sure why some people have a longer recovery other than it is highly individual and maybe not due to any particular drug combo.

[Adagiooo]

Dear Petunia, I'm so sorry you're having a rough time. I just know a big beautiful window is right around the corner for you. It might catch you by surprise but when it comes...and it will come...these tough times will be nothing more than a series of bad memories, nothing more.

 

Some of what you wrote I can really relate to, like when you say you feel as if you're being left behind and won't be able to catch up. I have the very same feeling BUT you are so far ahead of me and so many others because you are OFF of the drugs. That might not seem like much of a consolidation after two years but it is a BIG, BIG achievement. You really are healing without having to put anymore of the toxic poison in your body.

 

You also wrote:

"The feeling isn't new, its shame, but the reason for it is. I can't fix this. I've never let something keep me down for so long. This is not me, I've always been able to pull myself out of the bad stuff, some way or other. Either through my own sheer stubbornness or by finding a novel solution."

 

You're right, this isn't you, it's withdrawal which makes us fragile and vulnerable and scared. The real Petunia is in there and she is still all of the things you mentioned above. In fact, I thought it was pretty novel of you to come up with the mega dosing of vitamin C which you indicated does make you feel better.

 

Based on what you write it sounds like you are on the brink. Waiting is the hardest part but unfortunately a big part of recovering from these drugs is waiting...just plain old time.

 

I am wishing you the speediest recovery ever. I know the akathesia is terrible but that, too, will pass with time. You hang in there Petunia and keep doing what you're doing...putting one foot in front of the other. Big comforting ((((((((HUGS)))))))) to you.