☼ Petunia: recovering from 13 years of antidepressant use

[alex]

You are on your way dear Petu.I have no doubt in my mind.

 

Sending good vibes all the way to Australia....

[Addax]

Your post sounds very hopeful. Yay!

 

I've often wondered... Can there be a placebo effect if you think there might be a placebo effect? Hmm...

 

Relief from the mental anguish is huge!! :-)

[mammaP]

Glad to see that you are feeling better Petunia, your waves always make me want to give you a big hug and hold your hand till they go away. 

I am thinking of trying that stuff because I had read about prebiotics and didn't know which to go for.  It shouldn't take long to get to me as I'm here already . I hope this opens into a lovely long window for you. 

[Petunia]

Thanks everyone for your posts.

 

I've often wondered... Can there be a placebo effect if you think there might be a placebo effect? Hmm...

 

I wonder this too.  I think there is always the possibility of a placebo effect if you're not certain of what you are taking or whether or not it really does have any active (helpful) properties.

 

I'm even less sure about what to write.  I was about to try and do a 7 day Bimuno update, now I'm wondering if the small changes I think are happening are placebo effects

 

Anyway, placebo or not, there has been a change in my morning symptoms.  It feels like the levels of cortisol/adreneline have been reducing slightly as the week has progressed.  I've been waking up a little later each morning and when I do wake, still too early, the level of alertness/arousal/fear has been decreasing too.  Its still far from normal and still very unpleasant, but I've noticed some improvement. If I was going to put a percentage of improvement on this symptom, so far, I would say 20% improved from when I started taking it.

 

In general, this week, the high cortisol type symptoms have also been going away earlier in the day,  and I'm  finding it a little easier to pull myself out of negative thought loops.  Fearful thoughts are floating away without so much effort on my part.

 

But I've still had a couple of bad days this week, with other symptoms predominating.... very low mood, intense waves of neuro-emotions, anger, irritability, jealousy, followed by the apathy, anhedonia, demotivation trio.  This little wave may have been triggered by trying to 'work out' on Thursday.  I got back on the treadmill for 5 minutes and then did what I thought was a very light weights and stretching routine.  It felt ok at the time and it lifted my mood, but then I crashed a few hours later..... so I don't know, things are still fluctuating wildly in some ways.  I've been having random small surges of dread/fear through the day/evenings, rather than them being just part of my morning into early afternoon pattern.  But they only last a few minutes.

 

I really miss being able to feel positive emotions.  I remember what life used to be like, it was a mix of good and bad with a whole lot of bland in there too.  I'm pretty sure I always had a difficult time tolerating feeling bad and would be motivated to find ways to feel better again.  I suppose I took it for granted that there was always something I could do to make myself feel better, even if some of those things weren't particularly good for me in the long run.  But now, there's absolutely nothing I can do to feel good.  I'm living for the moments when I don't feel awful and I'm grateful that I do get some relief now.  But I really miss being able to feel the good stuff, its what made enduring the bad times possible, the hope that around the next corner, something would arouse a surge of joy or wonder or seem funny.  There's something about positive emotions, shared with other people that makes relationships feel meaningful, makes them feel real.  The loss of positive emotions has limited my ability to relate normally with others.

 

I've been coming to terms with the reality that Bimuno isn't a miracle cure for withdrawal, in my mind, there was a microscopic glimmer of hope that it would be, I've always had an optimistic nature and withdrawal hasn't completely changed that.  I can't detect any negative effects from it, so that's good.  I'll keep taking it and hopefully the improvement will continue, its only been a week and I think the study was run for 3 weeks.

 

 

Happy V Day

[wantrelief]

Wow, Petu - it sounds like you have had some pretty noticeable improvements in regards to sleeping a little bit more and having what sounds like a lower cortisol reaction in the mornings and throughout the day.  I know things are not where you want them to be and you are still struggling but I am really happy for you on these improvements.  

 

Happy Valentine's Day, Petu.  I loved the cute smiley face!

[LoveandLight]

The Bimuno - I was going to take it, then I noticed it has lactose..just wondered if you knew? X

[coldturkmama]

Little improvements are still improvements, so yay!!

[btdt]

"But I've still had a couple of bad days this week, with other symptoms predominating.... very low mood, intense waves of neuro-emotions, anger, irritability, jealousy, followed by the apathy, anhedonia, demotivation trio.  This little wave may have been triggered by trying to 'work out' on Thursday.  I got back on the treadmill for 5 minutes and then did what I thought was a very light weights and stretching routine.  It felt ok at the time and it lifted my mood, but then I crashed a few hours later..... so I don't know, things are still fluctuating wildly in some ways.  I've been having random small surges of dread/fear through the day/evenings, rather than them being just part of my morning into early afternoon pattern.  But they only last a few minutes.'

 

I know it is sometimes hard to tell but can you say if this is typical wave stuff for you or could something else has changed due to the bimuno... still early I know... if it is too soon to say that is fine I just hope to plant a seed of awareness. 

peace

[Petunia]

I know things are not where you want them to be and you are still struggling but I am really happy for you on these improvements. 

 

Thank you

 

The Bimuno - I was going to take it, then I noticed it has lactose..just wondered if you knew? X

 

No, I didn't know, but I drink milk, so it probably doesn't make any difference to me.  Now I'm thinking, should I be trying to give up dairy again?

 

Little improvements are still improvements, so yay!!

 

Yes this is so true, but hard to appreciate sometimes, especially when there is still so much that hasn't improved.  So thank you for reminding me.... one little improvement at a time, one day at a time, slowly getting there.

 

"But I've still had a couple of bad days this week, with other symptoms predominating.... very low mood, intense waves of neuro-emotions, anger, irritability, jealousy, followed by the apathy, anhedonia, demotivation trio.  This little wave may have been triggered by trying to 'work out' on Thursday.  I got back on the treadmill for 5 minutes and then did what I thought was a very light weights and stretching routine.  It felt ok at the time and it lifted my mood, but then I crashed a few hours later..... so I don't know, things are still fluctuating wildly in some ways.  I've been having random small surges of dread/fear through the day/evenings, rather than them being just part of my morning into early afternoon pattern.  But they only last a few minutes.'

 

I know it is sometimes hard to tell but can you say if this is typical wave stuff for you or could something else has changed due to the bimuno... still early I know... if it is too soon to say that is fine I just hope to plant a seed of awareness. 

peace

 

The random surges of dread/fear later in the day/evening is/was new, but that has stopped now.  I'm still in a typical wave/baseline pattern.  I don't want to add 'window' in there yet because I haven't started getting what I call proper windows yet, not on a regular basis anyway.  I don't know BT, the problem with this whole withdrawal thing is that nothing seems to stay typical for long, apart from the constant pattern of feeling worse with the dawn and better as dusk approaches, every day is slightly different and I never know what to expect.  Maybe life was always like this, but I just wasn't so aware or hyper-sensitive to all the minute changes.

 

Its been 13 days now and cortisol is still amping up around 4:30 - 5am.  I wish I could say not as bad, on a few days it didn't seem to be as bad, but I'm still getting some really bad mornings which last into the afternoon.  Yesterday was a bad one, today started out really bad too, but I've settled down fairly early today.

 

I guess there's the possibility I'm having some kind of detoxification reaction because things in the elimination department have changed a bit, much more activity going on and some increased urgency.

 

I've taken all of the obvious bad stuff out of my diet - alcohol, caffeine, sugar, processed foods, artificial sweeteners.  I've experimented with taking out dairy and wheat/grains.  I've tried various strategies, going bland, increasing protein, increasing leafy greens, smoothies. Whatever I try, I usually seem to end up feeling worse, but I never know if its just the ongoing wave pattern.  The only thing which seems to not make me feel worse, is being really strict with sugar.  But its hard to never eat any fruit, honey or anything even slightly sweet.  I don't exactly crave it, but I'm just not getting any pleasure in my life from anything and on a bad day, a teaspoon of honey in my lavender tea can really be the deciding factor of whether I actually drink it or not.

 

But as I wrote, today isn't as bad as yesterday and so I'm not going to complain.  But I do want to mention the nightmare I woke up from yesterday morning.  I actually exploded, it sounds kind of funny now, but in the dream, the fear/terror/pressure reached its limit and I just exploded/imploded out of existence.  I woke right at that point, not knowing if it was real, not knowing if I still existed. I didn't even try to go back to sleep, I was scared that if I did, I might not wake up again, so I just laid in bed breathing, trying to calm down.  It wasn't working so I eventually got up and went outside and started sweeping up leaves, hoping that the mundane/normal activity would connect me back with reality, but it didn't.  The trauma/shock lasted all day.  When my parents came over for a visit in the afternoon, I was struggling trying to make my dad a cup of coffee, it was like I'd forgotten how to do it, I broke out in a sweat from the effort of trying to make my brain focus enough to be able to do it.  But I managed, in spite of having my mum nervously hovering over my shoulder, wanting to take over and do it for me.  I'm stubborn and don't like letting someone else do things for me I know I should be capable of doing.

 

I'm relieved that I survived yesterday, and another year. One year older, although I've sort of lost track of exactly how old I am now, and another day closer to recovery.  When I recover, I will work it out, figure out how many more years I might have left and then decide what to do with those years.  But in the meantime........

[btdt]

I know what you mean about the fluctuations that come with wd making it tricky to tell if something is helping or hurting.  I started a probiotic today a new one I have been looking at.  The stats on it say it should make a difference in 12 days did you the bimuno have any timeline?  This one I started says on the package it should show results in 3-4 days.  I already feel different after one dose.. is me is it nothing I can't say yet.  I have had more pain in the areas of my gut that I have had pain previously been tired maybe a bit more sad but I have a lot of reasons to be sad... it could be all just catching up with me.  Definitely more low key not as much energy that also bring with it slower thinking patterns bit dense... but not completely stupid as I have had in the recent past. Just too soon to tell but for me I have to keep a keen eye as I do react hard to things other find benign.. so keeping a close eye.  Today for instance I am not going to get thru the usual reading I do on here as I don't have the energy... and I am going to bed at least an hour earlier. Add headache but I have them too... so I can't tell yet. Since this has turned out to be about me I think I will copy it to my page and save the work. Yep that lazy... I will be watching to see how your experiment goes wishing you well.

peace 

[NervousKitten]

I'm so glad to hear you are making progress. 20% improvement is still improvement! Be well, Petu...

[Petunia]

The stats on it say it should make a difference in 12 days did you the bimuno have any timeline?  This one I started says on the package it should show results in 3-4 days.

 

The Bimuno says it will increase 'good' gut bacteria in 7 days.  The study which showed a reduction in cortisol response and alterations in emotional bias, was run over the course of 3 weeks.

[btdt]

 

The stats on it say it should make a difference in 12 days did you the bimuno have any timeline?  This one I started says on the package it should show results in 3-4 days.

 

The Bimuno says it will increase 'good' gut bacteria in 7 days.  The study which showed a reduction in cortisol response and alterations in emotional bias, was run over the course of 3 weeks.

 

Study in chicks cortisol and probiotics may interest you

http://ps.oxfordjournals.org/content/89/9/1934.short

[btdt]

Probiotics to boost your Neurotransmitters: Cheat Sheet

 

http://psychologist....rs-cheat-sheet/

 

Lactobacillus helveticus & Bifidobacterium longum: found to reduce cortisol levels, a hormone that is frequently elevated in those who suffer from depression

Lactobacillus rhamnosus: increase the production of GABA, the neurotransmitter responsible for calming our nervous system and reducing anxiety and mental ruminations often seen with depression and OCD
Bifidobacterium infantis: a microbe capable of producing serotonin, much like Prozac
Lactobacillus acidophilus: improves functioning of cannabinoid receptors in the spinal cord, the receptors critical to regulating pain
Bacteriodes fragilis: Known to bolster the immune system, this was the microbe used in the study mentioned above that reduced the neurological patterns of autism-like behavior (California Institute of Technology)
Bifidobacterium infantis & Lactobacillus reuteri: these guys attack inflammation, a hallmark of depression and autoimmune responses, and also influence the appetite by sending “I’m full” signals to the brain. L. reuteri also stimulates oxytocin, the hormone responsible for our safe and social feelings when we are with loved ones.

 

FYI

[Rhiannon]

Petunia, hopefully you're only taking a very small amount of the prebiotic? I just ask because you said there's a lot more going on with your gut/stool. Which is good as long as it's not TOO much. 

 

The stuff I like best on the Internet, about gut health and pre/pro biotics, is the stuff by Chris Kresser. It's consistently, as far as I can tell, grounded in some decent science. 

 

 

I'm relieved that I survived yesterday, and another year. One year older, although I've sort of lost track of exactly how old I am now, and another day closer to recovery.  When I recover, I will work it out, figure out how many more years I might have left and then decide what to do with those years.  But in the meantime........

 

As usual, I am moved by your eloquence and how you put into words things that I have felt, but so simply and well.  Three years ago, what you say above was so exactly me. I just hung on to my job and did what I had to do to make sure I stayed alive. Now, just in the past year or so, it's shifting, I seem to be starting to look at the years I have left and what to do with those years and to think beyond recovery, that is recovery from the drugs. Recovering my life, I don't know, not sure that will ever happen. But maybe having a life that I can kind of enjoy living, that's seeming possible now.

 

That will come for you, too. Thank you for sharing your journey with us, with me.

[Petunia]

I think its Thursday today.  I've been getting progressively worse since Monday, it may have been triggered by 3 small chocolates I ate on Sunday night.  I'm not certain I ate them on Sunday, all I remember is that on Sunday 22nd I wasn't feeling too bad, I think it was Sunday night, but, well.... major wave going on now.

 

Its different though because I was just able to sleep for 2 hours in the afternoon and even though I woke several times with small adrenaline rushes, it hasn't been a completely toxic nap and I don't feel any worse now.  Maybe I'm coming out of it, I hope so.

 

Symptoms that are back:

 

Temperature dysregulation

Sweating

Mild Akathisia

Waves of neuro-emotions

Waves of fear/dread/terror

Brain Fog/Memory issues

Difficulty staying asleep

Agoraphobia

Increased tinnitus

Depression (who wouldn't be)

DP/DR

 

This one is much worse than the one that peaked last Wednesday.

 

I keep dreaming about cats, first a white one, and now lots of black cat dreams.  I'm always trying to take care of them or rescue them, there's some kind of threat to their safety.  Most of my life I've had dreams/nightmares about trying to protect small animals, now they are back.  Maybe these small animals are some aspect of me.

 

I want my life back.  I want me back, any me, it doesn't even have to be the old one, just a functioning one with a brain and body that works properly.

 

A smoke detector went off in the middle of the night.  I had ear  plugs in and I remember hearing it in my sleep, I thought it was some very noisy birds and was wishing they would stop.  My daughter rushed into my room in a panic. She's 20, but still looks to me for guidance and to be the responsible one. There was no smoke or fire, just a crazy smoke detector.  I watched myself get a chair and take it down and disconnect it, it wasn't me doing it though, I'm no longer a responsible adult, I'm really a helpless 5 year old inside this body.  I was confused, it was a fairly new device, why would it just go off for no reason. What was I supposed to do now?  Buy a new one? Change the battery? Just put it back up like as if nothing had happened? Then I laid awake for 2 hours, scared to go back to sleep, scared to put the ear plugs back in.  My body was hyper-aroused, I was confused, I didn't want to be alone dealing with this in the middle of the night, in the middle of a wave.  I used to be so confident and capable of handling things, but suddenly, almost overnight, about 4 years ago, I crumbled and I can't put myself back together.  I watch myself go through the motions of a very limited life, from the outside, it looks like I'm doing ok, but inside I'm like a mass of broken, misfiring circuits.

 

Dust, a spider or bug, humidity..... that's what google says can cause a smoke detector to go off for no reason..... well that should be ok then, but its not, life is so not ok right now.  A faulty smoke detector in the middle of the night is a reminder of just how much worse it could get and if it did, if one more really bad thing happened in my life right now, I don't think I would make it.

 

Just documenting what's going on, that's about all I can do at the moment, I can barely do this.

[Muddles]

I'm sorry to hear you are in this place. Once again I totally relate to everything you have written. My recent wave is worse than anything I have ever experienced and am struggling to hold my head above the water. This too shall pass - that's all I can keep saying to myself today and it will pass for you too.

 

Stay strong. We are all rooting for you.

[Muddles]

Are you still taking the probiotics? I have some here after reading up on them.

 

Also - how does the taurine help you?

 

Don't worry if you are not up to answering right now.

[brassmonkey]

That's such a frustrating place to be, I understand totally.  May I point out though that you DID handle the situation like an adult, even did research to find the cause.  It may not feel like it ATM, but something in there is working properly.  This is showing up through your dreams too.  Your inner kitten is seeking help while your nurturing self is frustrated to the point of horror trying desperately to attend to it against a situation that seems out of control.  They are a manifestation of your overall frustration/anxiety.

 

Many years ago I developed a technique for stopping my bad dreams.  It took a lot of work to practice because it is hard to think clearly when you're asleep but with practice it really helped.  First I had to realize that I was in a dream, no matter how bad it was.  Then do what ever possible to open my eyes, sometimes with a small adrenalin shock.  Open the eyes will helped to short circuit the dream and put me back in control.  I would then take a couple of deep breaths to center myself, say the key phrase "reboot brain" and let/make my mind go blank for a few moments.  I followed that with some basic relaxation exercises, dropping shoulder, relaxing arms and the like.  Then refusing to think about the dream snuggle down and go back to sleep.  The hardest part was making the conscience decision to open my eyes and forcing them open.  Like I said it takes practice but it really helped me.

 

Hope you do better tonight.

[btdt]

 I watch myself go through the motions of a very limited life, from the outside, it looks like I'm doing ok, but inside I'm like a mass of broken, misfiring circuits.

 

These words are beautiful to me as the tell a truth I know well.  Thank you for the words of justice to the situation we live in. 

 

I am wonder if this is true?

"Bifidobacterium infantis: a microbe capable of producing serotonin, much like Prozac"

 

What do you think?  

I know increased serotonin is known to cause crazy dreams you had one ... where "I woke up but the dream did not end" or feeling did not end... had a lot of them myself. 

 

I don't know myself I know tho a lot of things got better when I took the probiotic I did for 5 days my head felt different and I was not willing to risk it, so I stopped taking it to do a test.  

 

I am not sure but sense there could be a connection especially true it does increase serotonin. Gut in the second mind they always say that I started to research it but fell short.  I think extra serotonin in our guts affects our mind that is how we took our serotonin pills after all was through our guts. Just some food for thought. 

 

I wish you peace

[blackhill4]

I can relate to your "remembering the good days" and wanting to experience that again SOOO BADLY it hurts. I think when I recover I will never look back or take things for granted again, and I'm sure there are many others on here feeling a similar thing. Imagine the day when you can post " Finally... it's over" I await that day too. Here's hoping you continue to feel better

[Petunia]

My mum cancelled our Wednesday afternoon visit, she's tired and decided to take a nap instead, so I might as well use the time to update my own thread.  I need to write something about Bimuno seeing as I've been taking it for well over 3 weeks now.

 

Petunia, hopefully you're only taking a very small amount of the prebiotic? I just ask because you said there's a lot more going on with your gut/stool. Which is good as long as it's not TOO much. 

 

Nope! I threw in the whole packet right from the start    I figured if I was going to get any positive benefit from it, as they apparently did in the study, I should use the same amount used in the study.  The increased gut activity wasn't too much at all, just different from what I was used to, but it went back to 'normal' after about a week anyway.

 

Are you still taking the probiotics? I have some here after reading up on them.

Also - how does the taurine help you?
 

 

Right now I'm just taking the Bimuno pre-biotic.  Before I started the Bimuno, I was taking a probiotic, but I've never been able to figure out if it makes much difference.  When I started the Binuno, I continued with the probiotic, but I would occasionally forget, not noticing any difference when I did.  I don't seem to be taking it at the moment, and probably haven't for about a week.   I don't think I have gut problems, I don't think I need it.  But maybe I do and just don't realize it, its all a bit confusing really.

 

When I take taurine right before I go to sleep, I seem to sleep better (sounder) and when I wake up with the typical morning cortisol stuff, the racing thoughts aren't quite as bad as if I hadn't taken the taurine the night before.

 

Earlier today I was reading some articles about taurine and it led me to a study which said something about taurine doing something to GABA receptors in mice, which doesn't sound like a good thing to be happening in someone trying to recover from drug damage, so I'm a bit worried now, although I sometimes find it hard to understand what I'm reading, and I didn't understand much of this:

 

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/28/1/106.long

 

I'm not about to stop taking taurine, right now, because it does take the edge off the morning horror show, but it would be nice to know if its slowing my recovery from xanax.

 

Many years ago I developed a technique for stopping my bad dreams.  It took a lot of work to practice because it is hard to think clearly when you're asleep but with practice it really helped.

 

This sounds amazing Tom, almost like the beginnings of a book.  Not something I could manage at the moment though, I have a hard time thinking clearly when I'm awake.

 

Talking about weird dreams, I sometimes used to dream that I had woken up, and it was so realistic that I was sure that I was awake, but nothing was working right and it was still quite nightmarish, but I was sure I was awake, there would be like a few moments of panic, then I would wake up properly and there would be a huge surge of relief to realize that I had still been asleep, but now I was awake properly..... I wish that would happen now.  Maybe it will, perhaps this really is a long drawn out nightmare and I'm going to wake up soon.

 

The Bimuno Update

 

I'm down to my last few little packets, I've taken it for 27 days straight, so that's longer than the subjects in the study took it,  they took it for 3 weeks.

 

I don't think its had any effect at all on my withdrawal symptoms.

 

Initially there may have been a placebo effect or I may have been coming out of a wave.  But since being on it I've had some horrendous mornings and fairly quickly went into another wave.  I've had the occasional better day, but no more than I had before I started taking it.

 

If my cortisol levels are lower and I'm not paying as much attention to negative thoughts, then the effect is so subtle I'm not really noticing the difference.  If there has been any change, which might show up in some kind of a test, then its not enough to be significant to my actual experience.

 

I've only got 3 sachets left, so I'm going to take half a dose for the next 6 days, to 'taper' off.  I know I didn't taper on, but with the way things seem to go in withdrawal, even if something doesn't help, when you stop taking it, things often get worse, for me anyway   Does that mean they were helping but I just didn't realize it?  Or some kind of reverse placebo effect?

 

I guess I should make a note of my disappointing conclusion in the journal topic.

_________________________________________________________

[Petunia]

Well that was strange, two new posts popped onto my thread as I was writing my update.

 

I am wonder if this is true?

"Bifidobacterium infantis: a microbe capable of producing serotonin, much like Prozac"

 

What do you think?  

I know increased serotonin is known to cause crazy dreams....

 

I don't know BT, I've become so cynical I automatically don't believe anything I read or hear these days, I imagine hidden agenda's everywhere.  I've stopped believing anything that comes from the main stream media or our societies authority figures, instead I watch youtube videos about invisible planets, aliens, hidden histories and ufo coverups, not believing that either, but its a more pleasant distraction. 

 

If lack of serotonin was the cause of anything to start with, and I'm sure it wasn't, I'm even more certain it wouldn't be as simple as that once the chaos of withdrawal kicks in, I've got all kinds of things out of balance in my body now, I can feel it, not just serotonin, although I'm sure that goes way out of balance now too.

 

I hope we all find peace.

 

 I think when I recover I will never look back or take things for granted again, and I'm sure there are many others on here feeling a similar thing.

 

I've been sitting here trying to remember all the things I used to take for granted and I've come to the conclusion that it was basically everything about my life.  Every single thing that I used to be able to do, and feel ok doing it, not even feel good doing it, just to be able to feel ok doing something would be good enough.

 

Now, absolutely everything feels wrong or uncomfortable or strange and at times terrifying, nothing feels 'normal', a strange, sticky veil of unfamiliarity covers every experience and every corner of my awareness.  I've become a stranger to myself.  Thanks for your support blackhill, I hope you feel better soon too.

[blackhill4]

Everything feels strange and terrible? yep. I know that feeling too. Like you live in another dimension, or an alternate reality. I get a kind of fuzzy filter on everything especially during really bad waves (like now).

[brassmonkey]

I'll have to remember that phrase for the start of a short story, it does sound like the beginning of something.  Monica gets dreams like that every once in a while, thinks she is waking up but is still in a dream, really freaked her out the first few times, now she is getting to where she can recognize that it is happening and it isn't as upsetting.  Interesting about the probiotics,  I am finding the idea of the gut flora/depression connection very intriguing.  Hope you and mum are both feeling better. 

[btdt]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201404/natures-bounty-the-psychobiotic-revolution

 

I know your almost finished the probiotic there are others not sure if your interested but the article above has a list of which ones do what.  I just started back on the bio gaia today. L.Reuteri is the only active ingredient. 

[Petunia]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201404/natures-bounty-the-psychobiotic-revolution

 

I know your almost finished the probiotic....

 

Its actually a pre-biotic I'm almost finished with, but now I'm not (finished with it)

 

Two things have happened.  I've started to feel better, especially with regard to the morning cortisol levels.  Over the last, perhaps 4-5 days, there has been a difference.  Its like what I noticed the first few days after I started taking the Bimuno, but then concluded it must have been a placebo effect.  I'm only taking half a packet now, so I still have one last half a packet left.

 

The other thing which happened is that another box arrived a few days ago.  When my order hadn't arrived in the time they said it would, it was very late, I had written and complained.  I'd actually thought it had got lost it was so late.  Anyway, they had sent a new order.  So I'm going to continue taking it, half a packet at a time.  I've also started back on my pro-biotics, and I'm going to take them regularly for a while, see if the combination helps me to continue to improve.

 

I read through the article in the link BTDT and my probiotic contains some of the strains it mentions, I'll hi-lite them:

 

"In a recent study, a probiotic cocktail of Lactobacillus helveticus and Bifidobacterium longum was found to reduce cortisol levels."

 

 

"Other microbes act directly on nerve-cell receptors to influence brain states. Lactobacillus acidophilus—commonly found in yogurt, sauerkraut, and kimchi—improves the functioning of cannabinoid receptors in the spinal cord. The receptors are critical to regulating pain."

 

"Lactobacillus rhamnosus, a strain of bacteria that reduces anxiety and depression, acts on the brain only via the vagus nerve. In the brain, it beefs up production of GABA receptors."

 

Its also got 5 other strains which aren't mentioned in the article.  Apparently this one I've got doesn't have to be kept in the fridge and it survives stomach acid.

 

So I'm still on the pre and pro biotics

 

[Muddles]

Do you think this is worth giving a go - even in early withdrawal state?

 

I'm pleased you are seeing benefit.

[btdt]

I would be looking up the other five probiotics that are listed to see what affect they have on A>  neurotransmitters and B inflammation 

 

both are what I look for as I think the pain is in part related to inflammation 

There has been one implicated in increasing inflammation... I was just reading about it yesterday decided to keep an eye pealed so I don't take it... think it had animal .....something like that in the name. 

 

One thing I like about the L. Reuteri is it is a single stain of one probiotic... I wish they would sell them all like this so we could pick and choose what to put in our bodies. 

[Petunia]

Do you think this is worth giving a go - even in early withdrawal state?

 

I don't know muddles, I'm not even sure if its worth trying in my later stage, but I'm trying anyway.  All I can say is that it hasn't made things worse and it may possibly be helping.  There are a few of us here who are trying it.  Perhaps I will make a topic in symptoms so everyone who is trying it can post their results.

[Wildflower0214]

I'm pleased you have seen some improvement. you surely deserve a break.

[Petunia]

Thank you WF, I hope you start to feel better soon too.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I thought I was headed into another long wave.  Wednesday afternoon I wasn't feeling well, and I usually feel better in the afternoons. I felt hyper all evening and was obsessively looking at online ads for puppies, getting more and more frustrated because I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for in my area. Not that I'm ready to bring home a puppy, I need to have part of my fence replaced to make the yard more secure.  I'm also still not well enough to take on the responsibility of taking care of a puppy properly.

 

Disturbing dreams haunted me through the night and morning threw me back down into the dungeon of despair.  Neuro-emotions and irritability.  Hopelessness, doom and an inability to distract from any of it.  I thought I was in for another week long wave, but this morning I was back to base line again, so that was the shortest wave I've ever had   it might possibly have been caused by too much honey and fruit which I ate during the day on Wednesday.

 

In the evenings, I sometimes listen to satsang videos, I find them relaxing, comforting and inspirational, and they often put me to sleep.  A few nights ago I was listening to a recent upload from the current Mooji open satsangs in India.  I had fallen asleep, but woke up to hear the most beautiful performance.

 

As I listened to the words in English, I started to cry because suddenly, I was understanding something which I had been told a long time ago, it finally made sense and confirmed to me the meaning and purpose of what I'm going through right now.

 

So I want to include it here on my thread.

 

♡  ♡  ♡

A poem by Rumi ~ Just Keep Quiet

 

Just keep quiet
Just keep quiet
I am a slave of Love
I am a devotee of my Master
With me just talk about Him, nothing else
Don't talk about your suffering mind
Don't talk about your problems
If you don't understand this
Just keep quiet
Don't say anything
Keep quiet my Love
Keep quiet my Love

I got mad yesterday
Love saw me and said
I am coming, don't cry loudly, don't scream,
Just keep quiet, don't say anything
I said I'm scared of this
Love said, now it is gone, there is nothing here
Just keep quiet, don't say anything
I said, I whisper all of my secrets into your ears
It knows that
Don't speak with me with words
Don't say anything
Just keep quiet
In the path of Love
Such a great Master has been found
How beautiful is this journey with Him
But, don't say anything,
Just keep quiet.

I said, is he human or an angel?
Love said, he is not human or an angel,
He is something else
Don't say anything
Just keep quiet
I said, please tell me, who is he
I am getting mad of this unknowing
Love said, stay in this space, don't say anything, just keep quiet.
I said, I bow at your feet, please tell me, is he God?
Love said, Yes He Is.
But keep quiet, don't say anything.

Now is the time to move from this colourful and beautiful house
The dream of your life,
Just move out, just go,
Don't say anything, just keep quiet.
Keep quiet my Love,
keep quiet my Love

 

 

Performed live in Persian and English at the conclusion of Mooji satsang in Rishikesh, India on February 28, 2015

 

[Cdav]

Beautiful, thank you for sharing the poem and video Petunia. I'm glad you wave was the shortest one. Hope you keep improving. 

[LoveandLight]

Beautiful..I love Rumi..but I hadn't heard that one..

[blackhill4]

Well petunia a very short wave must mean good things right? My waves are very similar to yours except a couple of symptoms I noticed. Imagine when you are fully recovered ( isn't that far off I don't think) you can put this behind you and be a stronger person after all this. We do become stronger because this condition really unleashes untold suffering on people that they never realised possible and all the pharma guys will have to pay one day when jesus returns .

[Petunia]

.... to balance out the darkness, its been a rough few days. 

 

And nights have been filled with strange, deeply disturbing dreams and nightmares.

 

Without drugs, pleasure, beliefs, and hopes for the future, I have no protection from the ongoing reality of this empty or painful now moment.  On days when distraction no longer works, I'm left with the rawness of my own terror and there's nowhere left to hide.

 

Thankfully, there's always a tiny sliver of my self, shaved off standing transparently to one side through which something watches with a kind of neutral attitude.  From its safe distance, it knows everything is ok, in spite of appearances to the contrary.

 

I doubt I would still be here if it weren't for this curious observer.

 

As the viscous fog of 13 years of drugs clears away, piece by piece, an ancient enemy is being dug up.  I'm remembering something which used to rise up and torment me from time to time.  During my earliest years I would fight it with anger and rage, then I learned how to run from it in a myriad of ways, but now I'm frozen, caught firmly in its dreadful claws.

 

This awful thing, this dark shadow which has always been the undoing of everything good, is now back, sitting in its corner, claiming its right to exist.  It seems more terrible now and I'm beaten down into submission with no options left but to look into its dreadful eyes and keep breathing, one life sustaining breath after another until we finally accept each others company.

 

I can do this, I know I can do this because this is the final thing left to do...... there's nothing else.

 

~~~~~~~