☼ Petunia: recovering from 13 years of antidepressant use

[WinningThrough]

So glad you're starting to improve, Petu x

[Muddles]

I am so relieved to see you are getting some-what of a break. True healing is happening.

[mammaP]

I love reading your updates Petu, you describe everything so well and I am smiling here because you

are having a lovely window and I pray that it stays open for a long time for you. Enjoy every minute. 

[Petunia]

Thank you everyone for your lovely comments and support.  I only just got back to my thread after that last update.  For some reason, I'm finding this amusing, but the very next morning, after writing such a positive update, I was drowned in a huge wave of physical symptoms.  It was like I jinxed myself. Strangely, they were all on the right side of my body.

 

I woke up to lower back pain (I rarely get back pain), pain and tightness in my neck, right shoulder and nerve pain down my right arm... and a lovely tension headache on the right side of my head.  It sort of morphed into a migraine as the day progressed, bringing with it nausea, dizziness and increased sensitivity.

 

I was determined that nothing was going to break my new healthy treadmill habit, so in spite of feeling so bad, I still did 5 minutes, but quite slowly and no stretching or weed trimming.  I can't say it was easy, my head was pounding and I was glad when the 5 minutes was over, but so far I haven't missed a day.

 

At 8pm that night, all the pain suddenly vanished

 

The following day, no pain, but anxiety was high again.  It was different from 'normal' physical withdrawal anxiety, I noticed the difference.  I had planned to drive further than I have in a long time, to visit my sister.  She hasn't been well and needed some company, my daytime agoraphobia has been easing up a bit lately, so I thought I might be able to manage it.  But I was still very anxious about driving so far from home.  This was anxiety caused by fearful thinking, the kind which can be managed by CBT. I was noticing the irrational thoughts going through my mind and managed to counteract them.  I also knew that no matter how bad I felt, I was still going to go and visit my sister that afternoon, so I think that in some way, when my feelings realized that they were not going to 'work' and succeed in getting me out of doing something scary, they seemed to settle down slightly.  Once I got in the car and started driving, I was fine.  I even went out and did a few errands for my sister while I was there because she's unable to go out at the moment.

 

Seeing as I'm writing about my sister, I may as well write a bit more. She has a couple of chronic physical health issues which restrict her somewhat, one of them has slowly been getting worse over the last couple of years.  She stopped taking Lexapro after long term use about the same time I did, fairly fast taper and some withdrawal, but not as bad as me.  We both started on ADHD medication after that, it seemed to suit her fine, but I struggled with it for a year on and off before giving up on it.  She has been on high dose stimulants continually since the end of 2010.  Over the last several months she tapered off the stimulants and gave up smoking and cut her caffeine intake down by half.  She was doing ok until her chronic back problem turned into an acute episode and she became bed ridden, unable to move, unable to see her doctor and unable to even get him to take her phone calls.  She has had two major depression episodes in her life, which she was hospitalized for and she felt like she was quickly slipping into another depression.  Medication is out of the question now and so she was becoming terrified of what would happen.

 

Luckily she has an amazingly great partner who managed to get her to the hospital, where she spent the day on Friday getting the care she needed, so she now has some answers and a treatment plan in place.  She's doing much better now and moving around more.  If I could get another break from my symptoms, I would go and visit her again.

 

I'm back in another wave, its got a different flavor to it, but its still a wave.  Yesterday afternoon I was hit with crushing fatigue and my right jaw started to ache.  I fell asleep early and woke up this morning feeling a different kind of awful.  I think the intense hyperstimulated, physical anxiety symptoms stage of withdrawal has passed, for now anyway.  I'm now in the depressed, low dark mood phase.  Its lasted all day, a constant depressed, apathetic mood and at regular intervals I've been getting surges of negativity, like sudden waves of negative emotions will wash through me for no particular reason.  Neuro-emotions, I'm sure, but they have been coming with such regularity.

 

The pain in my right lower jaw has been getting worse all day.  I've actually taken some aspirin for it, which helps slightly, this has been something which comes and goes and has done since withdrawal started.  I'm not certain its actually withdrawal, but I'm not up to visiting a dentist yet, so I'm just going to have to deal with it for now.  It usually lasts a few days and then goes away.

 

I went to buy milk and a few other groceries in the middle of the afternoon.  Still no intense DP/DR which always got triggered to some extent in grocery stores.  So I"m grateful that seems to have passed too.  Shopping isn't pleasant or enjoyable, but its nowhere near the horrendous experience it has been and the trauma and memories from all the horrible experiences of it seems to be fading too.  Its getting easier to just get in the car and go now.

 

  This pain in my jaw is getting really bad, I wonder how much worse its going to get.  Its frightening to have strong pain and not be able to take strong pain relief.  Maybe some of my new honey and lavender stress relief tea will help.

[Meimeiquest]

Oh, Petu, the story just goes on and on, doesn't it. Do you have chiropractors in Australia? Here in the US we have some who work on more of the body than just the spine, and a good one is in my opinion a godsend in withdrawal. I really hope you have relief soon!

[calithebold]

Hi Petu, I totally understand about the pain and no pain relief as I can't tolerate anything but paracetamol/tylenol and I have chronic pain so it kinda sucks. I hope the pain starts to feel a little easier soon!!!!! Take care.

[lobster]

Just stoping by to say hi and Hoping you feel better soon ????

[WinningThrough]

Petu, I'm so sorry about the physical pain you're experiencing but I'm taking lots of positives from your post.

 

It's wonderful that you're not getting the physical anxiety, that you're driving without fear, that you're able to go grocery shopping without all the terror and that you're not feeling trauma from the memories of when it was bad. It's great that your anxiety, rather than being the unmanageable drug induced kind, is becoming the type that can be managed with CBT.

 

I hope the pain goes away as quickly as it came..I'm sure it will.

 

I know things aren't great and I know you're in pain but I feel like I'm watching you gradually improve. It's great to see and it gives me hope.

 

I just know that before long, you will be posting about a really good window.

[Petunia]

Thank you everyone for your support, I wish I was feeling better because I would like to comment individually.

 

I'm struggling to keep this from dragging me down into a pit of depression, its got bad again, I feel like I'm heading back to being completely non-functional again.  I'm feeling so helpless and frustrated, after making what seemed to be some progress, now I'm dealing with another kind of 'thing'.

 

I'm really scared.  Its a shock to realize how easily I can be thrown backwards, how the little bit of confidence and hope I had built up, can be snatched away, leaving me curled up in the fetal position, not caring (again) if I live or die.

 

This is the fourth time this has happened in about 2 years.  This is the worst.  Maybe not, the last time this happened, the whole right side of my head and down into my shoulder hurt.  But for some reason, this feels worse, I'm more scared..... and I just realized why

 

This time, I started googling and found myself on various dentist sponsored pages which were threatening all kinds of horrors if I didn't get myself to a dentist right away.  One of them suggested that I have an infection which will spread over my whole body and kill me if I don't seek medical help, I promptly forgot the last 3 times this had resolved itself, by itself within a few days.

 

I woke up about 5am this morning, no pain, and I had slept well.  But then suddenly, there it was, it didn't make any sense.  How could I sleep all night, pain free, wake up with no pain and then it suddenly feel like my lower right jaw is being twisted in a vice?  Anyway, when I realized this wasn't over yet, I took another aspirin.  Tried to go back to sleep, but that wasn't happening.  Then, suddenly the pain was gone.  The unpredictability of this is very destabilizing.  I needed to shower and wash my hair and thought I might not get another pain free moment, ever again, so I decided to use the opportunity, and showered at 6am, which is not something I've been able to do for several years, shower that early in the morning when symptoms are usually at their worst.

 

This feels like complete chaos, this pain comes and goes according to no particular pattern.  I can't eat, but I don't care because my appetite has gone again.  I'm confused because I don't know if this is a wave or if I'm having a bad reaction to the aspirin I've been taking.  My sense of reality is getting a good shake up again too.  I can't believe how one little aspirin can relieve such intense pain, I used to have to take strong opioids to even touch pain like this.  Maybe this isn't so bad, but I've just become very sensitive, I used to have a high pain threshold, but maybe that was just when I was on drugs, I was on them for so long I don't know what's the real me.

 

I've been getting really tired, can't keep my eyes open tired, like I'm drugged tired and I've been dozing off through the day, but because of my still messed up cortisol, I'm getting all the weird images and voices happening and then adreneline surges, throwing me into panic again, its bringing back fears of the early times which I had just started to feel like I was forgetting.  This is such a cruel illness.

 

I think the aspirin I've been taking has been temporarily reducing cortisol and then its been spiking as the aspirin wears off, making me feel even worse.  The last few times this happened, I don't think I took anything, apart from one aspirin once.

 

I'm dizzy, nauseous and I have a headache, its probably from lack of food.  Hopefully I have some things I can throw in the blender, I can drink, just cant chew.  Underneath all this, I still feel like on some level, I'm getting better because some symptoms have gone away and not come back, no matter what.

[Meimeiquest]

Oh, Petu, hugs coming your way. A no words moment.

[Rhiannon]

Oh Petu, I'm sorry you're going through such a cruel roller coaster time.

 

It's probably neurological/withdrawal, but it's so easy to mix up withdrawal issues with other health issues, both ways. That is, so often people who are having WD spend a lot of money (in the US anyway where we have to pay so much for health care) on doctors and tests only to find nothing wrong. But I've seen it go the other way too, where people who were used to the insanity of WD didn't get something checked out, only to find out they had a sinus infection or something that was contributing to your symptoms. Would you find it reassuring to go to a dentist and just be checked out? Might be worth doing.

 

Again, well...virtual hugs aren't much, but here are some from me. {{{{{}}}}}}

[mammaP]

Remember the earwax Petu? It wasn't withdrawal and it was treated with great success, maybe a visit to the dentist

will be good too. It's worth a try.Hope you are feeling a bit better today,  Mamma hugs too. x

[Petunia]

I'm sorry to be posting such a disheartening update and it concerns me that my difficult withdrawal experience might cause fear for others.  But the alternative to posting is keeping silent, I don't want to pretend this is something other than what it is.

 

Thanks everyone, the jaw/tooth pain has settled down, it lasted 5 days.  But I've been thrown right back into acute withdrawal symptoms.  I don't know if it was going to happen anyway, or if I caused it by taking a lot of aspirin for the pain, by my daily treadmill routine, by starting evening primrose oil or zinc, or driving too far to visit my sister twice and the stress of all that, even though it didn't feel stressful at the time.

 

Yesterday, I couldn't do anything but lay on my bed all day, wanting to die.  Thankfully it eased by late afternoon and I went for a walk.  This morning was like mornings from a year ago and I was having to remember my old techniques for getting through each moment, I can't go through this again, I don't have the strength left.  It feels like all the progress I've made over the last year has gone.

 

There really are no words to describe how miserable I'm suddenly feeling again.  Its an unbearable combination of confusion, hopelessness, fear, shame and deep aloneness. 

 

I haven't slipped completely back, there was no terror/dread when I walked yesterday, in fact there was some slight pleasure, feeling the grass on my feet, but the unpredictability of my experience, from moment to moment is driving me crazy.  Two hours earlier I was wanting to die and then suddenly I was enjoying the feeling of grass.

 

Once again I don't know what to do, what to eat, whether to stop taking the recently added supplements, if I should change my new walking routine.  I didn't walk on the treadmill for 3 days when the pain was at its worst.... I'm just so confused, I was getting better, I know I was.

 

I'm overwhelmed with fear again, at my complete lack of control over my body, my mind and my existence.  The sensitivity has come back.  For about three hours this morning, probably starting about 4am, the surges of heat and adreneline were coming in waves, like a blast from the past, they were bringing images and thoughts, memories, like ancient sludge being dredged up from the depths of somewhere I never wanted to go back to.  When is this going to end? Is this really still withdrawal?

 

I can no longer cry for myself, there's nothing here left to cry for.  Only waves of fear, confusion, hopelessness, grief, regret, envy, and anger, but only a memory of the person who used to be me.  I sometimes feel tears coming in response to other people's pain, but I can't get any relief from my own through crying.  I'm broken, I'm completely broken, there's nothing left here to put back together.  Something is typing these words, but its not me and I don't know how to keep living like this.

 

There is no protection left, life has become raw and terrifying, each moment like an unexpected explosion of something new and unprepared for.  Nothing is predictable any more, it probably never was, but now something has been stripped away and I can see it too clearly.

 

I want my clouded innocence back, stumbling around in the dark is easier when you can keep your eyes closed, you can pretend that all you have to do is open your eyes and everything will be clear.  But I opened my eyes and I'm still stumbling around in the dark.

 

Maybe this isn't just withdrawal, but something that started a long time ago and got blocked and held back by years of psychiatric drugs. Not an illness, but a natural process of transformation and deep change.  I can't keep going like this if this is just withdrawal, if this is just a broken brain hopelessly trying to piece crumbs of itself back together into some semblance of what it was before.

 

This has to have within it the potential of something better, if I can only let go and trust.  Staying alive and letting go at the same time, that seems to be what is required.  But the fear keeps coming, warning me that its not safe to let go because life doesn't come with a safety net.  I'm so very tired.  I feel like I've been living and struggling to survive for thousands of years, I don't want to do it any more.  I know the answer, its simple, just let go, stop struggling, but that feels like death.  Something here is still hanging on, because it wants to live, but this isn't living, its a rehearsal with a stand in.

 

I don't want to do this any more.  I want to go home.  If on some soul level I signed up for this life, I think I made a mistake.  I no longer really believe all that stuff any more anyway.  I don't know what to believe, there are no beliefs left, nothing is left to hang onto....nothing!  All that's left is this moment to moment changing reality and a very small part of me is sitting off to the side, alone, trembling and watching...that's all that remains of me.

 

Now that I started writing, I really don't want to stop, its a distraction, it lets me get out of my body and back into my head, where it feels slightly safer.  My body with its wildly fluctuating sensations is a very uncomfortable place to be right now....and there are no answers, only questions demanding answers which don't exist.

 

I hope this is a nightmare and I'm going wake up soon.

[Muddles]

I remember reading that btdt had a terrible time at 18 months off....said it got a lot worse for a while.

 

I'm sorry to hear you are suffering so badly. Im praying this will be the worst for you and that better days are on there way.

 

Big healing is happening. Thinking of you.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Ouch.

 

I signed on to the site tonight and your post was the first thing that caught my eye. How distressing it is to see you suffering, but I always think it is better for you to tell it how it is than to avoid posting about it. I have a couple of thoughts to offer but they are from my experience and they may not help as I have only this post of yours to go on and don't know what led up to the increase in symptoms.

 

This is only an intuition I have and I have absolutely nothing to back it up except what I think happened to me and what worked.

 

I think anything that alarms the body, such as an illness requiring meds of any sort, has the potential to throw us back into wd and we have to be alert to this. If it happens then I think going back to basics is the thing that is required. The basics that I did were this: 3 meals a day without fail and even if I had to force something down because I wasn't hungry or couldn't taste it. Breakfast was cereal and milk, then lunch was lunchmeat and cheese and a crappy fruit cup, dinner was a frozen 'healthy choice' meal and a salad if I could suffer through the jitters of preparing one. I had a ritual of eating an orange in the evening and would you believe in the beginning, I could not even peel it I was so jittery, had to cut it and eat the sections off the rind. I had no patience and peeling gave me a feeling of alarm and panic, how weird.

 

Half hour gentle walk every day. No more activity than this. My friend called me up daily and I made myself go every single time and some days it was agony but I did it anyway and I didn't die. I don't know how you are going to do this one but I think it is imperative and it is best if you do it outside. I would suggest NO treadmill only because that is not a normal activity for the body and what I think helps is that we have to do 'normal' stuff and make it a daily routine to calm the body and give it something 'safe' to lean on so it can stop 'alerting' and settle down (if that makes any sense). And I gave up on cleaning the house. It was too alarming.

 

The third thing is rest. The putting of the body in bed at a set time every day and staying there and getting 'rest' if sleep doesn't come. I think you know how to do this one.

 

The rest of the time we claw ourselves from one moment to the next as best we can and hang on. I used endless computer games then graduated to more stuff as I got better. Which reminds me, I am not sure about this but if you use the computer a lot I think it really does help to run one of those programs that cuts the blue light or wear the blue blocking sunglasses. See my reply to Muddles for my thoughts on this.

 

I am feeling far better than I think I should be for what happened to me and the short time I have been off meds. One of these days I'll make an update to my thread and say so. I knew I was getting better the first evening that I peeled and ate that orange and the taste of it was simply divine! I am not sure when it happened but it may have been in the early summer when I hit that snag with the volunteer job and felt suicidal for almost 2 months. (Oh, and there was also a day when I felt good taking a shower, I remember that now.) Seems weird to me but that's how it started. Enjoyment of food. My body must have been stabilizing all that time regardless of my mental state. I felt the worst depression I have ever felt in my life during that time but I just cried and hung on.

 

The other thing is this: I went cold turkey on all caffeine, ibuprofen and tylenol, and any artificial sweetener. Heating pads for back pain and headaches I had to suffer through. vicks for stuffed nose. No decaffeinated anything, no chocolate.

 

Well ok, those are my thoughts. I hope you can hang on and come through this. Give some of my ideas a try if you can and most of all don't give up, OK?

[Petunia]

I remember reading that btdt had a terrible time at 18 months off....said it got a lot worse for a while.

 

 Thanks Muddles, its true, I'm at the 18 month mark and it does feel like significant changes are happening, well it did.  I just wasn't expecting such a big swing in a down direction.  But thankfully, and true to what I've read, these waves seem to be getting shorter in duration.

 

I am feeling far better than I think I should be for what happened to me and the short time I have been off meds. One of these days I'll make an update to my thread and say so. I knew I was getting better the first evening that I peeled and ate that orange and the taste of it was simply divine!....... (Oh, and there was also a day when I felt good taking a shower, I remember that now.)

 

:) :) :) :)

 

Reading this made me feel so much better.  I often wonder how you are doing, and hope that its better, or at least not worse.  Knowing that you are improving gives my own hope a little boost.

 

Thank you for taking the time to write what your intuition told you, I'm going to consider most of it.

 

 

I think anything that alarms the body, such as an illness requiring meds of any sort, has the potential to throw us back into wd and we have to be alert to this. If it happens then I think going back to basics is the thing that is required.

 

In hindsight, I can see that a chain of events and circumstances which transpired over the course of about a week, 'conspired' to increase stress and cause this sudden wave.  Including the jaw pain and more aspirin in 4 days than I had taken over the previous 2 years. Added to that was an overwhelming sense of failure and guilt because I was obviously getting better, doing better, doing more and suddenly being back at what seemed like square one.... the early childhood messages engulfed me and.... I had obviously done something wrong, when things go wrong, its always my fault.... so that added to the wave.

 

I'm not giving up.  Just because I sometimes feel like giving up, its not going to happen, I've come too far, endured too much suffering to not see this to the end, to find out what happens next.

 

CW, your post inspired me, and I just stopped, mid-post and went for another walk around the park.  The experience of walking around the park is so different now from what it was like during those early days when I was forcing myself to do it, in spite of the feeling of terror and dread it would elicit.  I can see now that it had been a mistake to force myself back then, and now, I'm paying the price of having to overcome the trauma that caused.

 

Two years ago, I was physically capable of walking around the park, so I believed that it would be good for me to do it, but my nervous system was somehow too sensitized and the experience was overwhelming, I was adding stress on top of trauma.  Some light exercise might have been good for me, but going out 'in nature' was too much, now its not, but I have to re-train my brain to realize that its safe again.  The same with grocery shopping and going out anywhere really.  Its no longer overwhelming, but the trauma of when it was and I was forcing myself anyway, has re-programmed my brain to see it as a threat, I'm having to learn how to go out into the world all over again.  At times, for a brief glimmer of a split second, I'm getting tiny surges of excitement.  I had one just then while walking barefoot in the grass, at the park.  Its difficult to put into words really, but it was like a tiny surge of pure joy, curiosity, and gratitude for being able to know life in such a direct way.  I had become scared that I would never again feel safe enough in the world to ever feel good again.... but its going.  The fear is diminishing in cycles of windows and waves, without drugs.  Maybe I'm not broken beyond repair.

 

The last few years hasn't been just about withdrawal, I can see it clearer now.  I've been grieving over a lifetime of losses.  I've been feeling regrets over mistakes I've made, letting go of dreams I'll never fulfill, and most painfully of all, letting go of my role as a mother, because I think, ever since my daughter was born, she was my main reason for living and now I'm having to learn how to live for myself all over again.  Its been all too easy to let myself slip into living to fulfill the needs of other people, because that's how I was raised.... to believe that my value lays in my ability to make other people happy.

 

Thirteen years of drug suppressed emotions have come bubbling up to the surface, demanding to be dealt with by a personality made weak by lack of exposure to complete emotions.  Emotions already too overwhelming to begin with, but now even more so, due to lack of exercise of having to deal with them.  I was never taught how to deal with emotions, so now I get to teach myself

 

Wasn't planning on writing another post on my thread today, but oh well, here it is.

[LoveandLight]

Lovely post and description of walking barefoot in the park

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Petu,

 

I usually try to never argue with someone's interpretation of their experience but I want to suggest something. I'll start by saying that you, I and maybe a lot of the people who are on this board and in this predicament are HSP's, 'Highly Sensitive Persons'. I haven't read up on it much so I could be wrong. I am not going to pick through your post to try and elucidate which points you make that give me that impression but there's this:

 

 

The experience of walking around the park is so different now from what it was like during those early days when I was forcing myself to do it, in spite of the feeling of terror and dread it would elicit.  I can see now that it had been a mistake to force myself back then, and now, I'm paying the price of having to overcome the trauma that caused.

 

I am thinking that what if you were to train yourself away from this kind of interpretation of the effects of your actions in trying to recover? I think that you might have it backwards, that forcing yourself to do things (but they must be only the things that count like eating, rest and the walking, let everything else go) don't actually CAUSE trauma, that you just experience them through the filter of your body's traumatized (high cortisol fueled wd) state. That forcing through for only these activities (and of course other stuff that must be done like paying bills and shopping) just has to be done and your body sort of comes to expect them and relies on the consistency of them (beneath the trauma you feel) and it eventually it is helped to calm down. And I am not saying that you can force this calm but it just happens eventually and at a different timetable for all of us. I may be clumsy in trying to state my concept here. You cannot just sit and wait to get better, some forcing is vitally necessary. But for the right things, the ones with the greatest capacity to help. Routines are the key, I think. Breakfast lunch supper bedtime snack. Rest at a certain time for a certain amount of time. Walk at 4pm (or noon or ?). Wash rinse repeat. Day in day out. Same boring **** all over again. Do it anyway.

 

And you have the other thing that happened, the spiritual stuff, and I have no idea how that affects things. I had a bit of that too and that is why I won't touch anything that smacks of formal meditation. Too scared. But I think it still takes a back seat to the nuts and bolts of recovery.

 

Once I read that what we are experiencing in all of this recovery stuff is our BODY'S experience of the receptors upregulating and repopulating, getting back to their normal functioning after being messed with by drugs, it allowed me to relax and just let it do it's job. Although there really might be a timetable (like a relapse at 18 months) I don't think so. I think stuff just happens when it does. The cycle 'feels' erratic because when those receptors repopulate and upregulate, the body has to get used to THAT new environment, everything SYSTEMWIDE has to readjust. Would you believe that my body seems to be changing? That my muscles and fat feel like they are rearranging themselves on my skeletal frame? My face looks different in the mirror and it may very well be that my eyes are SEEING differently too.

 

Going through this **** is not for the faint hearted. We all should get medals. It is the most brutal torture of all, having to live in an alien body and never being sure of what to do. But it resolves, it really does if we can hang on. The barefoot walking was proof of that. And so is my story. I'll have to tell it, it is really neat. Gotta force myself to do it tho, still battling anhedonia.

[mattinsmom]

I would like to add drinking a ton of water to the wonderful suggestions you have gotten so far. 1/2 of your body weight in ounces. I know, it sounds like a lot, but it gets easy very quickly. 

 

I am sorry that you have taken another blow and I appreciate your honesty when you post about it. Thank you for sharing those parts of yourself and your experiences. 

[bubble]

dear Petu,

 

I feel the same as Amy,especially since I know how reluctant you were to share your dark moments. I feel grateful and priviliged. I hope to write more soon but just wanted to let you know I think about you as always and have no doubt you will come out of this battle victorious.

 

I wish I could do more than send you this e hugs and all the positive energy I can.

 

Bubble

[WinningThrough]

Thinking of you Petu.

[calithebold]

I hope you're okay Petu, thinking of you!

[LoveandLight]

Petu, I totally relate to your post about not feeling that there is a person left anymore. I also wonder as I've felt this for many years if it is withdrawal/med related or something else as I also had some awakening just after I felt all these symptoms. Who knows and it is scary..letting go as there doesn't seem to be any answers or certainty on the human worldly level. I hope you feel some relief soon and if it's any consolation at all, I think I know/feel what you are talking about. I think Monica from beyond meds had an article about ssri withdrawal forcing an awakening..I will try and find it.

[Rhiannon]

As always, thank you for your beautiful eloquent sharing. I know it's slow and it's hard to see, but from here I see you getting better slowly, same as I have seen other people do. It's a long hard road, three steps forward and two back every time.

 

You probably already follow Beyond Meds but if not, you might explore there. She's had that blog forever so there is tons of stuff. Monica has had a long and difficult healing journey but she's doing well today.

[mlrp]

Just a drive-by hug, Petu. I'm not up to much more at the moment but I so wish you a bit of respite.

 

*sigh* only on SA could someone (CW) post about the act of peeling an orange inducing feelings of "alarm and panic" and have (how many hundreds of) us understand. so important to try and hold on to the facts of what is happening to us physiologically - helps in maintaining perspective.

 

I wish you peace.

[Petunia]

Once again I've got mixed feelings about posting on my thread.  But desperation is clawing at my throat again.  I haven't been here for a couple of days, which is unusual for me, I've been such a mess and so depressed about the return of some acute symptoms and scared that I don't have the strength to handle much more of this.

 

I took 250mg of niacinamide yesterday afternoon, after researching a lot about it.  I had information overload and probably wasn't thinking rationally.  But it actually seemed to help reduce the almost constant feeling of panic, which has returned with a vengeance.  It sort of had the effect of a xanax, but without the pleasant mood lift (which I used to get with xanax).  Actually, my mood plummeted, even lower than it was, but I got some relief from the edge of panic feelings.  It started to wear off after about 3 hours, so I took another one.  I was beyond caring at that point and just wanted some relief.

 

My mind was swimming with all the contradicting information I've learned and I'm so sad that I didn't have access to information about nutritional treatments for anxiety, before I started on Zoloft or other psyche meds.  I'm actually sad about a lot of stuff.  Sad and angry and confused and helpless to do much about anything really.

 

I was slammed awake at 6:30 with a huge surge of adreneline/heat, felt like I was choking.  It took me about 10 mins of laying awake in torment (again), to decide to get up and take another niacinamide, seeing as they had seemed to help the day before.  It took about 80 mins, but then my body was feeling calmer, but my mind was/is like a lump of dark, thick fog.

 

I think I'm one of those people who need extra zinc and B6 and omega 6 but not 3.  I think I have pyrolluria, it fits the pattern of my entire life. But its too late, I've been damaged by pharmaceuticals and have to recover from this first before I can start experimenting with high doses of supplements.

 

Just like anything I've ever taken to reduce the daytime adreneline/cortisol, if it works, I seem to be plunged into increased depression and can't seem to do anything but lay on my bed in a semi-stupor, feeling waves of shame and guilt washing over me because I'm so pathetic.  This is turning into another miserable post, I'm sorry.  A little while ago I turned on my computer and decided to check in here at SA, some of the things I read felt overwhelming and I could feel the DP/DR creeping back over me.  But I'm doing my best to at least consider advice, even the kind I'm not sure I agree with, so I took off to the park (again), taking my very foggy, DP/DR head with me.

 

It was nothing like my experience the other day, I'm not going to describe it, but I was back in the shadow lands with everything appearing ominous.  I took my shoes off to walk in the grass and this time I was noticing wasps landing on blades of grass as I walked and became hyper vigilant about every step, so that I didn't get stung.  The wind seemed to be howling past my ears.  I sat by the water and two water birds started fighting right in front of me. Several other birds gathered closer to watch and another flew across from the other side of the lake.  They were pecking at each other, with wings flapping and water flying around, for some reason it reminded me of a thread I had caught up with on here, just before leaving the house.  I sighed, got up and walked home.

 

Thunder has just started rumbling in the distance.  It was hot and sunny yesterday. Today is overcast and heavy, matches my mood, I'm ever so slightly grateful that its not sunny today, I don't think I could stand it.

 

I just want to be alone, in a cosy little cave all by myself for days, weeks, months even, where I can purge myself of this miserable stuff and not have to face the contrasting light of 'normalcy'.  Anger, resentment, envy, bitterness is seeping out of my pores, I can smell it, and its not acceptable. Its been festering for years, the last decade and a half its been locked down by drugs, plugging up my soul, keeping me compliant and quiet, jammed into my role like a rusty cog that no longer moves.

 

I don't want to take any more niacinamide.  I don't want to take anything, not even the magnesium which I'm sure I've become dependent on now.  I don't want to have to take anything, not even food.  The thought of having to do anything to preserve life in this body now fills me with a subtle dread, its a responsibility which has now become overwhelming,  I'm not certain I'm up to the challenge any more.  Hunger drives me into the kitchen at regular intervals, but beyond that, I'm like a frightened animal, holed up in its safe little burrow.

 

This is a wave.  I'm drowning in it.  If I can keep breathing, when I find myself in a pocket of air, I guess I will survive, even if I no longer know what I'm surviving for.

 

 

I'll start by saying that you, I and maybe a lot of the people who are on this board and in this predicament are HSP's, 'Highly Sensitive Persons'.

 

Yes, I agree, I also think I'm an empath, have pyrolluria or some other genetic abnormality which could probably be treated with diet/lifestyle changes and was born into a personality disordered family system.  Now I'm iatrogenically sick and cant even begin to work on all that other stuff until I'm back to baseline.... its too much to even think about.  My memory is so bad can't even remember how old I am, 52?  53?  Maybe I don't want to know because hope is slipping away with each passing year.

 

Why couldn't I have been born now, when all this information is available, maybe I would have had a chance.  For most of my life I've been a glass half full kind of person, I thought I was lucky and fortunate and blessed, I was deluded.  Maybe I was actually fortunate, but I"m seeing through withdrawal eyes now.

 

 

Petu, I totally relate to your post about not feeling that there is a person left anymore. I also wonder as I've felt this for many years if it is withdrawal/med related or something else as I also had some awakening just after I felt all these symptoms. Who knows and it is scary..letting go as there doesn't seem to be any answers or certainty on the human worldly level. I hope you feel some relief soon and if it's any consolation at all, I think I know/feel what you are talking about. I think Monica from beyond meds had an article about ssri withdrawal forcing an awakening..I will try and find it.

 

I had my first 'awakening' experience, or perception shift when I was 5 years old.  Of course, I didn't know it at the time, but my experience of life was altered after that.  I think that probably set me on a spiritual path.  I've had several major shifts through my life, but I've never known what to call them or what they actually were, until now, since the internet and being able to learn about these things.  Its almost impossible to tease apart the difference between mental illness, spiritually influenced altered states of consciousness, drug effects and withdrawal.  Maybe its all exactly the same thing and its just a matter of perception based on the culture which surrounds it.

 

According to several spiritual traditions, having no person left, or realizing that no person existed in the first place is a good thing.  Thousands, if not millions of people follow a spiritual practice every day, trying to achieve a permanent state of 'no self'.  When I was in my 20's, I was desperately trying to achieve this.  I was what I now understand is called a spiritual seeker.  I don't think I'm seeking anything any more.  But maybe I am, in a subtle way.  Actually its weird, for the second half of my seeking life, when I gave up trying to kill my own ego, I was seeking my own true self.  I thought I had found it, I was 99% certain that I had finally got to the core of who I really was.  But then withdrawal hit and that remaining 1% of doubt grew into 100% and I knew without a doubt that there was nothing here, I am a complete phony.  I am nothing and I don't know anything for certain either.  But what's more terrifying is that I can see that no one else really exists either, or knows anything.

 

If withdrawal projected me into some new stage of awakening, I suppose I should be grateful, maybe one day I will be.  But right now, its awful, I'm very scared, in fact fear is pretty much the entirety of my conscious experience of life during most of my waking moments.  I hope it eventually burns itself out, before my body does.

 

 

 

You probably already follow Beyond Meds but if not, you might explore there. She's had that blog forever so there is tons of stuff. Monica has had a long and difficult healing journey but she's doing well today.

 

Thanks Rhi, Monica is a real inspiration, I've found a lot of comfort and support from her site.

 

 

*sigh* only on SA could someone (CW) post about the act of peeling an orange inducing feelings of "alarm and panic" and have (how many hundreds of) us understand.

 

This was a moment of shared understanding for me too.

 

Thank you everyone for your comments and support, I might write more later, but I'm in such a depressing, negative place and its hard to find the energy and motivation to make it happen.  Even though the act of writing here does provide some relief, there is always a dark side to the experience too and I often get hit with waves of negative feelings as I'm writing and about to hit the post button.  There must still be a person here or there would be no one here to feel these things

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Here I am reading your thread in the middle of the night again when I should be sleeping. Starting to feel like a vampire. But I am awake because my leg aches (a very bizarre numbness in my upper thigh, probably from sitting too much) and it is pouring buckets outside. These aluminum boxes magnify the sound of rain. But it kind of matches my mood, which is surprisingly down considering the revelations I have had this week. Had the darn thoughts of suicide flitting through my head again last night.

 

And so here you have written another chapter in your book. The only consolation is that you will not have to have another experience quite like this ever again. I am off to scour your thread for a remark you made that set my life on a totally new course and gave me the insight I have long needed to finally figure out what had been 'wrong' with me since I was a child. It is earth shaking for me and I really cannot wait to try the type of (short term) therapy recommended to me and set my life on a new course. It is time for me to write some kind of update to my thread.

 

Be well, sweetie! I know that eventually things will settle for you because they did for me. It is just a matter of time.......

 

Edit: Well I see that I have already talked about joining the dating site in this post and I was sure I got the idea from you but the only thing I could find right now is your mention of 'meetup' groups. No matter, you were directly involved in my mind anyway.

[Muddles]

Sorry Petu. I am there with you. Keep going...one foot in front of the other. Remind yourself this terrible wave will be gone.

[LoveandLight]

Far be it for me to question your experience but I wonder what you say here 'I am nothing' no one exists either' this would go round and round in my head creating blind terror before, until I questioned or ignored the thoughts..I just wonder for myself also the experience and perspective although true, cannot be defined by thoughts..?

[moodyblues78]

Hi Petu

 

You said earlier that you`re finally seeing improvements and now you are back in a wave. Good! You had some relief. Now it`s time to practice living with the symptoms and finding your way out of it. And as you did last time, you will find your way this time too. And you will come out of it stronger! 

 

I may seem like an ******* saying this is a good thing but let me explain. I had to force myself to think that waves make me stronger. That slowly took away the fear of them. Well I do still fear them but not nearly as much as i used to. If you lose the fear, you can use these waves to make yourself stronger and stronger. Every wave that comes out of nowhere is here to teach you something and to give you strength to face the next wave. 

 

It really is that simple. Slow taper and rewiring our thought patterns is a very good tool. I used to seek after wonder supplements and vitamins that would ease my suffering. I no longer think they did any good. The right attitude is much more powerful tool.

 

This or any future wave does not matter. You are heading in the right direction

 

I hope my sincere opinion did not offend you Petu. It surely was not my intention.

 

Br,

Moody

[Petunia]

Edit: Well I see that I have already talked about joining the dating site in this post and I was sure I got the idea from you but the only thing I could find right now is your mention of 'meetup' groups. No matter, you were directly involved in my mind anyway.

 

I do remember writing either on my thread (to you) or on your thread, something about dating sites.  At times I've been tempted to join one and have browsed through several, but I just can't do it (again).  I'm not ready to go through it all again.  I've had 3 long term relationships in my life, most of my adult life I've been in a 'serious' relationship of some kind, but none of them were what you would call emotionally healthy.  There is something about me that chooses these kinds of experiences and until I get that fixed, from inside of me, then I'm not ready.  CW, I'm looking forward to reading your update.

 

 

I hope my sincere opinion did not offend you Petu. It surely was not my intention.

 

No, not offensive at all, thank you for what you wrote, I can also see the positive side of waves. I recently read a post (on another site) which explained how symptoms were actually signs of healing taking place.  It was written from the perspective of benzo recovery, but I think the process of recovery from any brain altering drug would be similar, because its all so interconnected.

 

She writes:

 

Now, I don't "know" the following based on research, because not enough research has been done yet  - but based on my studies in neuroanatomy and my own withdrawal experiences, here is how I have analyzed what is "happening" during wave symptoms. Remember, I have had to look at radiology reports of brain damage and estimate what a patient might present with - so this is very similar. Instead of a radiology report showing me what has been damaged, I'm using my own brain symptoms to surmise what is going on....more here -    http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=66397.0

 

The thing which if frightening me about this wave is that I'm worried its not a 'normal' wave, but that I've set my recovery back by taking too much aspirin for pain over 4 days.  Over the last 18 months I can see that I've achieved a degree of stability, even with tiny windows and regular waves, but this feels different.  I can't quite explain it but its like I've lost some core stability again, drug induced.  Of course I don't know any of this for certain, but if I've destabilized myself, it could take months for it to settle down again..... just from taking aspirin.  I guess time will tell.

 

I need to get away from my computer now.  I haven't been out of the house for about a week, apart from a few short walks and I need to get myself back in a grocery store before the fear of it builds back up again, so more later.

 

I hope everyone is doing better and Happy Thanksgiving to all of you who celebrate it.  When I was living in the US is was my favorite holiday

[moodyblues78]

 

The thing which if frightening me about this wave is that I'm worried its not a 'normal' wave, but that I've set my recovery back by taking too much aspirin for pain over 4 days.  Over the last 18 months I can see that I've achieved a degree of stability, even with tiny windows and regular waves, but this feels different.  I can't quite explain it but its like I've lost some core stability again, drug induced.  Of course I don't know any of this for certain, but if I've destabilized myself, it could take months for it to settle down again..... just from taking aspirin.  I guess time will tell.

 

 

 

I know this feeling so well. I think it is just a normal reaction to a wave that was not expected so soon or so bad. I have had this feeling many times this year. Then I always get surprised how I bounce back faster and faster after every wave. Symptoms change all the time. New ones come and go. Old ones comes back with a vengeance only to fade away once more. 

 

It`s all part of the process

[mammaP]

Remember this Petu? Keep holding on and that wave will be over.  Mamma hugs. xx

 

[dalsaan]

I'm thinking of you Petu. I think waves are particularly hard to handle after the hope and relief of a window. Give it some Time before going to the place of destabilisation due to asprin. It may be part on your pattern

 

In my experience windows do represent healing

 

Take care

 

D xx

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I did some reading on the action of aspirin in the body to see if I could get some info on how it might have affected your current wave and nothing came to light. It suppresses the formation of prostaglandins which carry pain signals in the body and also inhibits clotting. Perhaps it is more likely that your body, sensitized by withdrawal, reacts with alarm to illness and your symptoms of this get magnified. Since aspirin has no direct effect on the central nervous system I would not suspect it of making anything worse, IOW I have no reason to believe that your recovery will in any way be 'set back'. Sometimes waves, horrible though they are, are just waves. I have no guarantee that I will never experience one again. I have been only mildly ill since last year with a mild cold, not enough to alarm my system overly much.

 

I left a note for you about breakfast in my thread.

 

I split my sides laughing whenever mamma posts that cartoon.

[Petunia]

Far be it for me to question your experience but I wonder what you say here 'I am nothing' no one exists either' this would go round and round in my head creating blind terror before, until I questioned or ignored the thoughts..I just wonder for myself also the experience and perspective although true, cannot be defined by thoughts..?

 

I wanted to respond yesterday, but ran out of time/energy.  Then this morning I woke up suddenly and this comment was racing around in my mind and wouldn't leave me alone, telling me I 'needed' to clarify something.

 

When I wrote that 'I' don't exist or that other people don't exist, its not something I spend much time thinking about, it was more of a realization or an insight, one which shocked me, but was also somewhat freeing at the same time. I don't think anything can be defined by a thought.  Once something, a truth or a reality gets translated into a thought or words, its distorted, but for some reason, us humans have these brains and minds which think in the way they do and communicate through language and it the best we have to work with.

 

When I say that I don't exist or that other people don't exist, I mean the image, idea, concept of 'who' they or I am.  Good example for us here.  Most of us grow up and develop a certain set of ideas about who/what our doctors and medical professionals are.... they are a doctor.  Most of them probably think of themselves as 'a doctor' too.  But they are not.  Doctoring is something they do, learned behaviors and skills, a role, there is not actually something called 'a doctor'.  Underneath all the acting and practicing of doctor skills, there is just a physical organism with instincts, drives, fears and mortality, just like everyone else, there is no doctor, not really, just life, playing itself out in a certain way, from moment to moment through a particular body.

 

When I go to my doctor, all I can do is hope that he/she, at that moment is going to do the best they can to use what they have learned about doctoring, and take seriously the role they are playing, that being one of putting my needs for healing, ahead of their own needs for survival (of their income, lifestyle, reputation.... everything they have come to think of as who they are)

 

I used to see people as the image which was presented, stable representations of constructed selves.  But now, its like I've had a glimpse of reality, not just as a thought or a concept, but at a deeper level and it wont completely go away now, but I try not to think about it because you are right, its quite terrifying really.....someone once said that the whole world is just a stage and we are all actors, playing roles, or something like that, apparently its true.