☼ Petunia: recovering from 13 years of antidepressant use

[btdt]

That is a very good description I am still amaze with the clarity you have the awareness is something that comes and goes for me i can rarely catch it and I have days where I just seem to exist and not really live at all. I don't know why I still have this now... yes I thought it would be gone too and it seemed to be for a time but it is back.  So I spend a lot of time here some days in a world I understand and don't feel completely like a freak.  I don't know how much you have read about stages but I think your in one I recognize it from your writing... for me it was very negative and I felt stuck there for a long time. It too eventually shifted to something different I can't wait to see you describe the next phase. I always identify when you do but I can't seem to verbalize my experience.

The frustration your feeling is I think a normal reaction to not only wd but how very long it takes... to heal. I have all the same worries about being left behind and wonder if thinking too much on it actually makes it come to pass as it seems I get stuck and can't make any positive choices. Even as I say it I know it is not true but it feels true i am losing the plot of this just now so will let it rest and come back to it another time if I feel I have missed something.

I know this is all crap.. I know it .. some place inside me I know this is not who I am not even yet.. as I have had glimmers of myself and I know it is all just there waiting in some strange way I know this is true for you too...one of these days this old rubics cube is going to shift the right way and we are going to click back in when that happens we will no longer care how far behind we are we will just be happy to be back.. that is what I think and hope. I don't know about you but I have spent enough years on the down side of life .. should the click happen I am going to go live so hard and so fast in good way you will not see me for dust... that is a promise.

peace 

[AliG]

 You have a way with words , Petu, that I can always identify with. It always feels like you are putting my thoughts into your own "observations".  Sending positive thoughts. Hoping you get a "big, wide, window".

[Petunia]

The real Petunia is in there and she is still all of the things you mentioned above. In fact, I thought it was pretty novel of you to come up with the mega dosing of vitamin C which you indicated does make you feel better.

Based on what you write it sounds like you are on the brink. Waiting is the hardest part but unfortunately a big part of recovering from these drugs is waiting...just plain old time.

 

 

Thank you Ada for your encouragement and support, I know you are struggling badly yourself at the moment, so this means a lot to me. One of the reasons I want to hurry up and get better is so that I can be a living testimony for recovery, rather than a hypocrite, which I sometimes feel like, especially when I fall into a wave.

 

If recovery ultimately comes down to nothing more than time, it really is a lesson in patience and humility.

 

I'm still a bit confused about what's going on with the vitamin C. It was definitely helping, but like everything else I have tried, which has seemed to help, its like after a while my nervous system adapts to the change and goes back to exactly the way it was previously...scheduled repair work as usual, no short cuts allowed here.

 

Sending big ((((hugs)))) right back.

 

 

 

but being constantly bombarded with information telling me I can.

 

Well, not from me I don't think.

 

 

No, its just the general climate of our culture with messages everywhere trying to convince us that we are in charge of our own destiny and the quality of our lives and experiences if we...... buy whatever it is they are selling.

 

Even if there isn't a specific product or service being sold, its still there as a form of self promotion or self validation, justifying the existence of something... a belief or a personal philosophy or an ideology, some kind of identity is being held together by the strength of numbers.

 

Wherever I look, people are doing things, its like an addiction. Even when they stop, the not-doing is turned into a doing, it gets called meditation and all kinds of formal techniques are invented to surround that. I can't seem to do much of anything and that makes other people very uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable too, especially now, because I feel so uncomfortable in my body from symptoms. But I actually managed to get very good at not doing anything and I didn't even have to call it meditation...this was before drugs of course, they messed everything up. Getting married to the kind of person I chose was probably the beginnings of things getting messed up, if I'm honest.

 

There seemed to be a point I was trying to get to here, but its gone.... oh well

 

 

Of course I am probably full of it and this is just like other well meaning advice - good only for the person who gives it. I am not saying this is the key to health but it is a good way for normal people to live life, why not us ravaged by a nervous system run amok?

 

 

I agree this is good advice, especially for you, because it has worked quite well for you and probably for a lot of other people too. Some of it is good advice for me, but not all of it. Part of my own very steep learning curve has been struggling to listen to my own intuition about what my own body needs, rather than put my faith completely in what may have worked for someone else. I'm still struggling with this. Its probably human nature to turn to others for help when we are feeling at our most vulnerable and helpless.

 

This withdrawal experience can regress us back to the state of being a helpless infant, completely dependent on something outside of ourselves to make the decisions about what is best for us, even if those people don't really have a clue themselves.

 

I did a lot of extra damage to my nervous system from 2011 until some time in 2013 because I didn't know what was going on and I was getting my advice from sources which weren't appropriate. Even when I found the withdrawal forums, and the information was at least starting to be relevant, I was still doing more damage because my nervous system was in such a bad state, I couldn't handle most of the things others were doing, but I forced myself, because I thought it was right for me too.

 

I've never been 'normal'. Trying to force my abnormal nature and personality into a culturally normal box has been incredibly stressful, my whole life and I think, the drugs were partly a way for me to jam myself into one of those ill fitting slots a little easier. What you wrote about a stable routine being good for the nervous system, to do the same things everyday, that seems to be the way most people live their lives and do well like that...but not me. I don't do well with unexpected change that I'm not in control of, but meaningless ritual and routine is like poison to my soul and always has been.

 

I have the kind of nervous system that seems to do well on change and novelty, but change which I'm in control of. I was a poor match for my family and for this society in a lot of ways and I still can't get up at 7am every morning, get dressed, eat breakfast and go for a walk.

 

As unnatural as its felt, I've done life like that for huge stretches of time, but its been stressful. I'm not normal, there is something about me which doesn't naturally fit in with the 'normal' flow of the way our society runs. Most people seem to do well with waking up in the morning and and eating something. Not me, but I was forced to do this for the first 15 years of my life. I would always feel nauseous and anxious after eating too early, it was like my body wasn't ready for digestion until much later in the day. Another thing is light, most people feel better in summer, when there is more light and brighter days, but I'm the opposite, I prefer dim lighting and overcast days, I like light rain and staying inside watching the rain drip off leaves into puddles on the ground.

 

Maybe everyone is like this, but most people have more self discipline than me and don't need drugs to force themselves into roles and routines they don't naturally fit into.

 

I think there was one more thing I wanted to comment on

 

And of course, you know how I feel about getting into the spiritual and psychological stuff when wd is bad: don't do it. When you told me you keep listening to satsangs on youtube for relaxation and doing inner child work I thought it was not a good idea but who am I to say? What you fill your day to day thinking with (I think) should be light fare, not deep stuff. Who knows what kind of effect that has on a compromised nervous system. I concentrated on spider solitaire and word games and jigsaw puzzles. Far cry from my normal geeky diet of stuff.

 

 

I'm so glad you wrote on my thread today CW, its helped me figure out some things about myself that I don't think I would have been able to otherwise. I just went into the kitchen and made myself another big green smoothie and this time I added in some sprouted beans and seeds. I know this is exactly the opposite of what you are advising, but that's why your post has been so brilliant for me. I haven't had a green smoothie for a couple of days because the thought of them had started to make me feel ill. I was craving heavier foods and more protein. But today the thought of what I've been eating the last 2 days suddenly feels wrong but I was confused again. Then you mentioned smoothies and I remembered them and it was like a light bulb went on, that's what my body wants again, its ready for some more of the green stuff.

 

Its the same with what I quoted above.... change. My nervous system is craving a gentle rotating routine of cycling novelty and spirituality, psychology, controversial subjects, sci-fi movies and games are part of what seems to give me the right blend of stimulation, although I often get it a bit wrong.

 

Once again I seem to be not normal here. I can amuse myself for a day or two playing various games, all the kinds you mention but then suddenly I will be overcome with with an incredible feeling of negativity and meaninglessness at the thought of spending another moment playing one of those games. Its like my brain or mind is needing a different kind of activity to keep it alive and so I have to go in search of some kind of novelty idea, some new information, something new and interesting, but not too stimulating. Something just enough to keep my soul engaged down here on this planet, without doing more damage to the vehicle.

 

The satsangs and spiritual stuff for me aren't like I think you imagine. I'm no longer seeking anything, out there or over there or when something happens. I get it that 'this is it'. Unfortunately I got to this point when my 'it' is the intense suffering of protracted withdrawal, so I've got some really difficult stuff to 'integrate' and work with. This is my life, its painful and uncomfortable and looking at it from a spiritual perspective helps me to accept it and stay alive. Along with this web site, I credit Mooji and several other teachers with helping me to keep living and keep getting through this, not because I'm trying to escape this reality into a future reality when I will be 'enlightened', but because this *is* reality right here, right now, with all its pain and torment and fear and shaking and sweating and frightening thoughts. This is how it is, right now, and that's ok, its how life is choosing to express itself through this body at this time. Listening to other people with their problems and concerns, who are trying to escape from their own suffering, which is usually quite minor compared with what we go through is a reminder that we all suffer, but that there is ultimately no escape from life in all its forms and movements and if we want to really live, then we have no choice but to let life move through us in the way it wants to.... the pleasant and the unpleasant. Not all teachers are good and not all satsangs are helpful, but I can usually find a bit of truth here and there which reminds me and calms the raging storm of fear and keeps me going for another day or two.

 

I crossed a spiritual bridge and it collapsed behind me, I can't go back now, so I have to learn how to live on this side.

 

I completely agree with you about the inner child work and the trauma stuff. But it was all coming up by itself because of what I was going through with my family, particularly my dad. If I was living in a cave by myself and never had any contact with anyone, I guess it would be easier to avoid dealing with past trauma, because it would never be triggered by anything outside of myself. But when other people keep doing what they do, in spite of me trying to stay away and protect myself, and old trauma gets stirred up, I have to do what I have to do to resolve it within myself. I'm not doing any more emotional suppressing, that was the past, that was what drugs are all about, drugs and various addictions. I want to deal with emotions now, feel them and release them, so when a bunch of stuff from the past gets unblocked and released up into the light, I'm going to try and see it as a gift rather than make an old mistake of trying to shove it back down. I'm not going looking for anything though, there is enough of this coming up by itself. I heard someone describe some of what we go through in withdrawal as free therapy.

 

So, my point here is that my recent explorations of trauma work, inner child stuff etc has been a way of trying to understand and work with what has been coming up by itself.

 

I suppose what I've been doing the last few years is doing the best I can to turn what looks like a very negative and painful situation into an opportunity for growth, learning and positive transformation.

 

Because of the kind of parenting I received while growing up, I never developed a strong sense of my own identity and that made me vulnerable in some ways because I was usually trying to define who I was through things outside of myself, including other people and often this made me open to being taken advantage of. But the other side of this was that I was always questioning roles and identities, trying to look behind the facade of everything to find out what was true. I've been searching for my own true self most of my life, because I was never allowed to develop a solid sense of self. Its made living in this world/culture difficult, but the other side of the coin is that I've never got stuck in a limiting role for very long. In trying to find out who I really am, I've explored quite a few unusual options, some of which tended to stick for a while until withdrawal hit and they have been getting peeled off like the layers of an onion.

 

There's not much left of this onion now and I'm close to finding my true self. Its what will be left after all the social constructs have gone. A long time ago, when I was in my twenties I had something which could be called and awakening, or a shift in consciousness, or a sudden change in perception or a non-ordinary experience. It might have been a kundalini awakening, there was definitely a huge surge of physical energy which precipitated the whole experience. I would be happy to label it as a spiritual emergency, because that's what it turned into. Unfortunately, due to no other options seeming to be available at the time, I fell into the evil clutches of psychiatry, my sacred experience got labelled as psychosis and lots of awful, soul destroying procedures followed for several weeks until I managed to escape.

 

But anyway, during part of that experience, before I got captured, I had a brief premonition/insight one day. I had the idea that one day I was going to have to drop everything and walk away from my life and everything I knew as reality. It really scared me at the time because I wasn't prepared for what I was going through and I was taking everything literally rather than symbolically. I thought I was being instructed to literally walk away from my home and life with nothing but the clothes on my back. No money, no identification, no name, no contact with anyone I knew. It was like I was being shown a situation where I was suddenly completely alone in the world with no identity or connections with anything or anyone.

 

I didn't understand it, but I do now. I was being shown the truth of who I really am. This is who we all are, at birth. We have no identity and everything we become is what is placed on us from the outside, its not real, none of it is. Believing any of it makes it into a cage we walk around in.

 

These waves are washing away more of my cage.

 

There can be safety in a cage, especially if I am a bird living in a house with a cat, but a bird in a safe little cage can't fly.

 

 

 

 

 Not sure why some people have a longer recovery other than it is highly individual and maybe not due to any particular drug combo.

 

 

I like trying to find patterns too, but it probably comes down to being a combination of variables unique to each person. If I look honestly at my own factors, I'm not surprised really that I'm still as sick as I am.

 

I was under a lot of stress for years and then it intensified for about 4 years. I was dealing with one stressful thing after another. During that time there were several medications which were silently pushing my nervous system beyond stretching point. Then 2 years of random benzos, stimulants, and other NS effecting substances, before I realized I was in withdrawal. Then I fell down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole and my world view got shattered because I took the red pill. If I didn't feel safe in the world before, now I knew why, I wasn't. Then even more stress with a relationship thing, house renovation and move. Along with all that, the stress of raising a teenage daughter and trying to keep her life as stable as possible, while being under attack by her father. Financial worries and constant nerve pain from an injury which lasted 2 years.

 

Its actually a miracle I'm still alive, drug free and sane. My nervous system needs a nice long rest to recover from all that, along with recovering from withdrawal.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

While I was writing I noticed two more comments, which I will reply to later, but thanks BT and AliG

[btdt]

I read and identify with much you say tho I came to it in a different way. I think I posted the other day we come in one way to be a true success we go out the same way.. I meant life we come in clean to get out clean we have to dump the crap and see beyond the things life put on us.  I will do more on this later as it is deep and I can't go there right now. 

 

but this..

 

"No, its just the general climate of our culture with messages everywhere trying to convince us that we are in charge of our own destiny and the quality of our lives and experiences if we...... buy whatever it is they are selling.

 

Even if there isn't a specific product or service being sold, its still there as a form of self promotion or self validation, justifying the existence of something... a belief or a personal philosophy or an ideology, some kind of identity is being held together by the strength of numbers."

 

Is as obvious as the nose on a face... to me. 

If your uneasy or unhappy it is all within your power to change it.. so we never look to the oppressive winners in our culture, to see it mean we have to do something about it.. if it is never exposed we can just keep eating pills and killing ourselves with bs while they continue the power reign. While many things are personal many things are also societal issues .. our world could be different.  As of now it serves a few it could be serving us all.. that is what I see. It can only remain serving a few well as long as the few can keep us hoodwinked... and servicing them.  Paying our taxes buy the products including eating their pills when we feel bad about the raw deal we are getting. 

The have all the angles covered and your right to deal with this on a personal level takes us back as we have no choice but to go back as all things are peeled from us in one way or another. 

The fact we are still here I agree is a bit of a miracle. 

[freespirit]

Thank you for posting this Petunia. I deeply appreciate your honesty and clarity on these things...if I could express myself as well as you have, I could have written nearly every word. I too, am not normal on here, nor anywhere else. I've been crying since I read this...feeling that some very deep letting go is necessary and happening...another layer of the "trying to fit in" piece of me.

 

I know we typically wish one another windows...but a window is not always an answer, at least not a long-term one. I wish for you whatever it is you most need right now.

[brassmonkey]

Hi Petu--  finding one's "time slot" and being able to stick to it is an important and very overlooked aspect of coping with life.  Because of society we are forced to conform to the "early to bed, early to rise" BS that Ben foisted on us so many years ago.  I think a lot of people would be in a lot better shape if they didn't have to be at work by O'dark:30 all week.  It is just unnatural for many of us.  Many years a go I got a dream job of being an artist for Disney.  We started the day at 9:00 and worked to 6:00.  It was a great schedule and I felt good.  Then they changed it to starting at 7:00 so we could put in 2 hours of overtime a day and still be home at a reasonable hour.  I was tired and hurt from day one until I was laid off a few years later.  My natural schedule is to go to bed at 1am and get up abut 9am, I revert back to it every weekend and feel good.  Then its 10 pm to 5:30 am all week and I know it contributes greatly to my feeling like c*** all the time.  I have made trying to stick to my schedule part of what makes me an individual and only tolerate the other schedule because I have to.

[Martina23]

We have also working time from 9 o clock, if it would be earlier I would have problems to get up.

[Adagiooo]

You are not a hypocrite Petunia. You've suffered terribly and you're body and mind are healing...you're going to be even better than your pre drugged state when you are completely healed.

[Petunia]

 

Past 24 hours: M class flare and a geomagnetic storm!  No wonder I'm feeling so awful

http://www.solarham.net/

 

Thanks everyone for recent posts, I'm not up to reading them yet, but I will.

[Petunia]

I finally found my way back to my own thread and was going to post a simple line or two, because if I start trying to write much detail about what I'm going through at the moment, I fear I will never stop writing and eventually will end up disappearing up my own you know what.

 

Then I read the recent comments and it struck me how we all struggle with the same kinds of issues through our lives, but the way we understand them and deal with them can be so different, almost making it seem like there are many different realities operating here on this planet at the same time.

 

Even though she meant it in a different context, I agree with btdt

 

The fact we are still here I agree is a bit of a miracle. 

 

I've had a rough couple of weeks and only some of it is directly withdrawal related, although everything is connected in one way or another.

 

This is what I had planned to write:

 

I came into this world as a human being. But life on this planet as it is, conspired to turn me into a human doing. I was lured with lots of false images of myself as being a human getting and a human becoming. None of it felt right, not on the deepest level. There has been a tiny, quiet voice, screaming at me through my life. I've managed to block it out for long stretches of time, but it always comes back to tell me the truth.

 

This withdrawal experience has made it impossible for me to be anything but a human being again. I've been dragged back to my original state where being is the only option. By the grace of something, I've managed to retain the basic skills I need to keep myself surviving physically, and I've landed in circumstances which enable me to do that, it could have been so much worse, so for that, I'm grateful.

 

But suddenly having to live in what feels like such a helpless state, after years of feeling like I had some control, is terrifying, there is nowhere to hide, no filters, nothing to take the edge off of reality any more. There are no soft places to land, no happily ever afters or rainbows leading to sparkly futures. I'm grounded in reality right now with my eyes open and the only way to deal with the raw unfiltered nature of the moment is to just be, there is nothing to be done and there never was....until there is.

 

I'm so out of sync with the rest of the world right now I can't bear thinking about it, because it sets the terror spiral in motion again.

 

I've lost so much over the last 8-9 years and its been exhausting and painful, struggling and fighting, trying to hold onto something which felt safe and familiar, trying to preserve something of myself and my life. But its all been in vain, the more I struggled, the weaker I became. Something infinitely more powerful than me has been orchestrating the course of my life and its will is stronger than mine and it seemed to be the time for me to learn this truth.

 

Actually, I wasn't even going write this much, just the part about being turned from a human doing back into a human being

 

Its all still feeling pretty awful, for most of my daytime hours, but I'm getting more and more clues that this might be a good thing which is happening. I still can't do much of anything, but when I do, its starting to feel different and more real and meaningful than it ever has before in my life. One little example. I went for a walk to the park at the end of my street yesterday, first time I had been there in ages because its been so difficult and unpleasant. But yesterday it felt different, like I was plugged deeply into the experience from moment to moment, it was what it was and it was completely what it was and nothing else. I felt the essence of nature, of the trees touching me and flowing into me, like some kind of silent, sacred communion, I've never felt it quite like that before..... this was like the complete opposite of the monster trees experiences I was having a year or two ago. But different from my 'normal' experience of walking around in nature.

 

Previously, before withdrawal, when I would go for walks, which I did regularly I would be happily walking around, but pretty much stuck inside my own head, fairly oblivious to what was around me, unless something in particular caught my attention. I would be thinking about things which had happened or what I was going to do later or conversations I'd had or how the exercise was doing me good. I might be planning things in my mind, imagining various outcomes for things I was planning. Basically, my body would be walking around in nature, but my mind was occupying a completely fabricated space, which filled most of my awareness. Depending on what I was thinking about, the experience would be pleasant or unpleasant, but not based in reality at all, I was living through an ongoing story which my mind was constructing from moment to moment, while my body walked around a park.

 

My experiences of trying to walk while going through withdrawal have been a chaotic mix of mostly terrifying weirdness. In my confusion and cognitively impaired state, I've often attributed my inner turmoil to something I was doing or being exposed to. DP/DR and anxiety surges would always increase whenever I left the house anyway, so in a way, I had already started communing more directly with nature, but because of my chaotic inner landscape, it manifested as something very unpleasant. Then my mind would take over to try and protect me, inventing all kinds of dangers lurking all around in an attempt to get me back to safety. When that didn't work it starting bringing up past traumatic memories which were related in some way. Every time I left the house, it was like I was walking around in a waking nightmare, of course this increased my stress levels, not good for a recovering nervous system.

 

Before withdrawal, when I walked, I was walking around in a dream state. During withdrawal, I was walking around in a nightmare state. Now, I'm waking up and starting to walk around being more aware of the reality around me, and not so much in my own head. I'm living more in the moment, in the now and it seems to be happening naturally as a result of recovering from withdrawal. As my sensitized nervous system is starting to quieten down, so is my mind. As I'm starting to relax into my non-doing state, my mind is losing its ability to redefine reality according to its programmed agenda.

 

Its really difficult when everyone else around me is living according to the 'program', but, well, I don't seem to have a choice anyway, so the more I can seem to accept it, the easier it gets.

[Dan998]

Great post. I can relate to so much of this. 

[Petunia]

Thanks Dan, I'm glad someone was able to make sense out of it, after I finished writing I felt like it was a bit 'out there'

 

Today I tried for a repeat performance of Wednesday's walk, but it was completely different. I was firmly stuck in my own head again, my vision seemed fuzzy, I wasn't noticing anything around me, my thoughts were keeping me stuck in the previous couple of hours of activity and the only thing I was really noticing about the current reality was that bits of twigs and leaves kept getting in my boots and it was annoying.

 

There were two differences between Wednesday and today that I can figure out. On Wednesday it was earlier in the afternoon, and there weren't many people around, today there were kids coming out of school, more cars and people coming and going from the houses which are around the park. The other difference is that on Wednesday it was overcast, there was no sun and that feels more relaxing to me. Today the sun was too bright and feeling like it was blinding me, even with sunglasses on. I just didn't want to be 'out there' today and was glad to get back home, a very different feeling from Wednesday.

 

The morning cortisol surge wasn't quite as bad this morning as it usually is, so waking up was a mildly horrific experience rather than a gut wrenching one, like it usually is.  So today the dial on the awfulness scale has been lower, but it hasn't been decreasing like it usually does, so I'm feeling as bad now as I was earlier. I seem to have a constant low level neuro-emotion flowing through me, my 'better' days seem to be a lot like this now. The intense hyper-aroused state cycles back and forth with a calmer state, but when I'm in this state, there is a constant low mood and negative emotion going on. Nothing changes it or distracts me from it, its not related to anything I'm doing or thinking, its just there, being caused by my messed up nervous system and brain I suppose.

 

I keep finding myself grateful that I found this site and learned what's causing these ongoing symptoms because if I thought this was just me and the way I was going to have to feel for the rest of my life, I don't think I could deal with it. This is so much worse than anything I went through before I started taking the SSRIs. I had anxiety and it did get quite bad at times and it did have an effect on the quality of my life. But I was able to feel positive emotions, be happy and pursue my goals, I had motivation and enthusiasm for life. I was a half glass full kind of person and even when I was going through tough times, I always had hope and believed that things would get better one way or another.

 

There was never a chemical imbalance, most of my anxiety and problems came from harmful parenting and life stress, but I have a chemical imbalance now, my whole body is out of balance and not working properly. I used to have some control over my experience of life and my own body by the choices I made, but now I'm at the mercy of my chaotic nervous system as it stumbles around in the dark, with not much of a clue how to fix itself after being poisoned for over a decade.

 

I've got legitimate negative emotions here too, anger and sadness and a lot of grief as I'm seeing the truth about my own life. 

 

But I have to be honest, with myself mainly, if this hadn't have happened, I don't think I would have woken up to the truth about myself and my life, not in the kind of way I have now. When you can hardly leave your bed or house, can't drink or take any drugs, can't sleep past 5am, there is not much opportunity for running away from reality any more. I've been forced to sit down in the middle of my own mess and look at it, not in a judgmental critical kind of way, but to see the truth about myself and other people who have impacted my life.

 

I've made some incredibly harmful choices in my life, but I can see that they weren't really choices, I was reacting from unconscious patterns set in place from my early childhood, it was a legacy of emotional abuse and neglect which I carried forward into my adult life, choosing options which felt familiar and safe, because that's what I was used to. My own survival instinct got linked with a need to abandon myself and my own needs in order to avoid being abandoned, both emotionally and physically. I used to think that my belief was that I didn't deserve anything for myself, and that was as deep as it went. But underneath there was a deeper wound. Having needs of my own and wanting someone else to consider them triggers abandonment fears from when I was very young and dependent on my parents. I learned to suppress my own needs for my own survival.

 

Being able to see all this means I can heal from it and I don't have to continue the pattern. There's a chance that I might be able to have a more functional and nice life in the future with people who aren't going to hurt me, because I'm no longer making choices which lead to me being hurt. I'm learning that its ok to consider my own needs and to take care of myself, that I have a right to be safe and comfortable, just as much as anyone else.

 

Unfortunately, my nervous system hasn't got the message yet, its still stuck in the old pattern, throwing out the warning signals, violent reactions and messages, trying to protect me from an old danger.

 

But its getting there, very slowly and in the mean time I'm learning about patience and faith, and what they really mean.

[bubble]

 

I came into this world as a human being. But life on this planet as it is, conspired to turn me into a human doing. I was lured with lots of false images of myself as being a human getting and a human becoming. None of it felt right, not on the deepest level. There has been a tiny, quiet voice, screaming at me through my life. I've managed to block it out for long stretches of time, but it always comes back to tell me the truth.

 

This withdrawal experience has made it impossible for me to be anything but a human being again. I've been dragged back to my original state where being is the only option. By the grace of something, I've managed to retain the basic skills I need to keep myself surviving physically, and I've landed in circumstances which enable me to do that, it could have been so much worse, so for that, I'm grateful.

 

But suddenly having to live in what feels like such a helpless state, after years of feeling like I had some control, is terrifying, there is nowhere to hide, no filters, nothing to take the edge off of reality any more. There are no soft places to land, no happily ever afters or rainbows leading to sparkly futures. I'm grounded in reality right now with my eyes open and the only way to deal with the raw unfiltered nature of the moment is to just be, there is nothing to be done and there never was....until there is.

 

I'm so out of sync with the rest of the world right now I can't bear thinking about it, because it sets the terror spiral in motion again.

 

As I'm starting to relax into my non-doing state, my mind is losing its ability to redefine reality according to its programmed agenda.

 

Its really difficult when everyone else around me is living according to the 'program', but, well, I don't seem to have a choice anyway, so the more I can seem to accept it, the easier it gets.

 

Dear Petunia,

 

I have been away for quite a while (feeling well and doing and being more) as you might have noticed but logging in occasionally and checking on what is going on. I'm so happy to see that despite still brutal waves windows are there for you and getting wider and clearer.

 

What you wrote is such a brilliant piece of writing: human being vs human doing! I can so relate to the way you describe your walk on both days. Sometimes I'm more at peace with the world and myself than ever before (and sometimes it all gets painfully distorted again or I just become a very small, frightened and insecure child in the big wide world.

 

It's great pleasure to read your depicting of those very intricate ways of our being that we go through during these processes.

 

I also delight in your support to other members and admire the energy and effort you put into it. That's more than some people put withinh their working hours

 

Sending you big hugs.

 

Bubble

[direstraits]

your writing is so incredible and insightful as usual

 

I always see so much of myself in your words.

 

had I  felt worthy enough to put my own needs first in my life I don't think I would have ended up on these damn drugs.

 

thanks,Petunia XO

[Adagiooo]

I just wanted to drop by your thread to wish you continued healing, clarity and peace of mind. Your writing is, as always, beautiful. I feel like we're sitting down together and you're explaining things to me.

 

Be well and take good care of you. (((((Hugs)))))

[NervousKitten]

The morning cortisol surge wasn't quite as bad this morning as it usually is, so waking up was a mildly horrific experience rather than a gut wrenching one, like it usually is. 

 

 

This is great progress, Petu! Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

[JanCarol]

Hey Petu,

 

Wow, wringer.  You really are cleansing on some deep levels.  And, thus, you are "wrung out."  (this is the old fashioned beat on rocks with lye soap, rinse, repeat, run through the "mangle" to get the excess out, beat some more, then hang "out to dry."  Sound familiar?  ;-)

 

I'm going to get back to something you said about "adrenal fatigue," which is what I think this lingering (malingering!) is.

 

You have been through SO MUCH and your body is so tired of the bouncing swings and merry-go-rounds of withdrawal, that your adrenals have said, "Nup.  Quitting, now."

 

At least, that's the echo with what I am experiencing.

 

I'll go back to the glandulars.  They are cheap, not exotic, it's just like eating organ meats (which maybe you could do more of too?)

 

But what can you do best (if it is adrenal fatigue, or fatigue of any kind) is rest, be gentle with yourself.  Appreciate the small things you can do (like MammaP's button!) and keep putting one foot in front of another - at your speed.  (my speed is slower than a speeding koala!)

 

Oh, and here's why I think DHEA is illegal here:

 

(WARNING: Graphic content in this video, may be too stimulating for anyone sensitized by withdrawal.)

 

 

<3  Feel better <3

Edited July 15, 2015 by Petunia
added warning on video

[JanCarol]

BTW, DHEA again.  The reason my ortho-doc doesn't want me to take it is this:  my adrenals are already crashed, depleted, fatigued, exhausted. 

 

Throwing DHEA at it, can be like kicking a dead horse.  I just makes you - and the horse - feel worse.  Sometimes stimulation is not what fatigued adrenals need.

 

In some ways, even ginseng can be too stimulating for adrenal fatigue.

[Petunia]

Thank you Bubble, I'm thinking about you on your study trip.

 

 

had I  felt worthy enough to put my own needs first in my life I don't think I would have ended up on these damn drugs.

 

 

I think many people end up drugging themselves into compliance to the needs and wants of others, or external pressure from our culture in general. We are programmed from birth to look externally for validation, so its not surprising.

 

Thank you Ada and NK for your comments.

 

Thanks for the video JC, if I was scared to try the DHEA before, I sure am now, those twins is scary. I think I will put a warning on the vid..... I'm being gentle with myself, its a learning curve, I even had a successful bath the other night. Its taken 3 years to actually be able to relax in the bath again, but I did it, so I'm getting there, slowly.

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

I had two very similar dreams last night and woke up from both of them in a panic, I think they were trying to tell me something.

 

The first one I had earlier in the night. I had been somewhere and was walking back to my car which was in one of those multi-level parking garages. I can't remember the details of exactly how the next part happened, but a man somehow talked me into getting into the back of my car and he got in the drivers seat. I immediately began to feel anxious and I knew something was wrong, that my life was in danger, but didn't know how to escape.

 

I had an idea. As we drove up to the exit, where the small office was located, I told the man that I just needed to stop in the office to pick up a suitcase which I had left there, I was hoping he would let me out and I would be able to escape, but he turned around and looked at me and quite calmly said "you didn't think you would be able to get away that easily did you"

 

I instantly knew I was doomed and woke in a panic.

 

In the second dream, someone I had recently met, another man was driving me, in my own car to the train station so I could catch a train into the city. The strange thing about this situation was that I was sitting in the right hand seat and he was on the left. In Australia, the driver sits on the right, so I was in my own car in what should have been the drivers seat, but he was on the left driving.

 

While we were traveling, I realized that I didn't really want to be catching a train into the city, then we passed the turning to the train station, the one that I always used to take. Then I remembered that there was a new way to enter the station, the one that my ex-husband used to use. (none of this is true, these are details which my dream created, and none of this looked anything like what my local area and train station actually look like, this was some place I didn't recognize). So I thought my new friend/driver must be going to use the new entrance. But he drove straight past that too, went to the end of the road and turned right, going in completely the opposite direction from the station.

 

At this point in the dream, I wasn't particularly disturbed, because this was someone I knew (in the dream anyway), and so I was fairly relaxed and trusted him. But then he calmly said to me "you are dead now", and almost immediately turned off onto a side road and drove away from the road into a tree covered clearing. Suddenly I became overcome with panic and almost total exhaustion, I realized that I couldn't do this again, I had no energy left, I had nothing left to fight with, for my life. I wondered if I could possibly get out of the car and run back to the road for help, or maybe fight him, but in that moment I realized I had nothing left in me, I was just going to have to let him kill me. Then I woke up in a state of panic, wondering what it meant. I remembered the dream from earlier in the night and made a connection.

 

After spending a bit of time thinking about it, I came to the conclusion that someone else driving my car, with me in a passenger seat was probably symbolic of letting someone else control the direction of my life, which seems to have been a pattern of my life, starting with my father and continuing on through, to a certain extent, through the 3 main relationships I've been in.

 

Thinking about it more, these dreams are even more accurate than I first imagined. If the first one was representative of my marriage, then that would make sense. I very much tried to take control of my own life and future while I was married, but basically got overpowered and manipulated by events and circumstances. I  ended up in the back seat of my own life, being carried along by forces way out of my control.

 

I don't know if the second dream represented my last relationship or was a warning not to let it happen again because I really don't have the strength to regain control over my own life if I give it away to another person again. I'm barely hanging onto control now, due to withdrawal, but finally, thankfully, my life isn't traveling along someone else's road, with me being a passenger in their life at risk of being discarded when I'm no longer required.

 

I think these dreams were showing me that I need to drive my own car from now on, even if that means I just drive around the corner once in a while to buy a few groceries or to go and walk along a beach by myself.

 

I've been given a life (a car) and because its my life (my car), I'm the one who should hold the wheel and decide where I'm going to go, or if I even want to go anywhere at all.

 

I know exactly where I got the idea that it was ok to let someone else drive my car, but that was a very bad idea. I'm glad I still have a car, some new information and the possibility of learning how to drive for myself.

[Petunia]

I have internet problems, testing to see if I can post again...

[Petunia]

My internet started dropping out right after I posted last time, about the two dreams. It got progressively worse and I started to panic. The internet has become like my connection to sanity and my daughter needs it for uni. Since going into withdrawal, its become almost impossible for me to deal with things like this and because I'm alone, I don't have anyone to help me with things l can't manage. For most of my adult life I've always been married or in a relationship.

 

The anxiety, trying to figure out what I was going to do was overwhelming on Thursday night, I didn't sleep. I still had some connection, but very slow, so I managed to exchange a few emails with tech support, but that came to a dead end when I lost connection completely and it wouldn't come back.

 

It became even more confusing because I was trying the modem in different phone outlets around the house, and at each one, a different number of lights would come on, that didn't make any sense and it still wouldn't work anyway.

 

I was terrified about having to get on the phone to technical support because of all the horror stories I'd heard from other people and from what I'd read on a support forum I use. I was suddenly forced to realize just how dependent I have become on the internet, without it to tell me what to do, I was completely lost.

 

My stress levels went through the roof, I was a complete mess on Friday morning, not knowing what to do. I found a computer help number in an old local paper and called, but got a machine and had to leave a message. It was like I was in some kind of altered state, just didn't know what to do next. I had this weird thought "Well, I've got no internet, so I suppose I had better cut the grass", which I did, but I was shaking the whole time and not really knowing what I was doing.

 

Then I came inside and phoned tech support, having no confidence at all in being able to get the problem sorted out. I was on the phone about half an hour, being instructed to do various things, but the whole time my stress level was exactly like I was being given instructions for defusing a bomb that was going to blow up an entire city, I was so stressed. I couldn't see properly or hear what she was saying, I had to concentrate really hard to keep it together.

 

But eventually it was working again. Its taken me two days to recover from the stress of it, feels like I've been set back a bit. I never used to be like this    It felt like it was one of the most traumatic experiences of my life, how ridiculous is that, I phoned an internet help line for goodness sakes!!

 

So it was back to survival mode for a while.

 

I want to be normal again. I used to be independent and could handle things, now I feel like a helpless, vulnerable, abandoned 5 year old, trying to survive in a harsh, uncaring world. That's what my reality feels like now.

 

Its evening here now, so I'm not feeling too bad, at least it hasn't set off a major, long wave.

[ang]

You spoke of the red pill?  The red pill along with the white pill, they send me nuts...............

The red pill haloperidol?  does anyone know.

the white pill was a valium, that sent me nuts............

 

You speak of spiritual stuff, all my spiritual stuff happened after the red pill, and the white pill..............................

I am still trying to recover from the labelling that went along with that red pill, and white pill..........the reality, the red pill and the white pill done it!

 

Hugs Petunia.............. one foot in front of the other, dont look back, looking back is hurtful.

[Addax]

When the Internet serves as such a large part of our interaction with the world it's no wonder loss of that connection would cause anxiety! Simply misplacing my cell phone can stir panic in me even though I know it's "somewhere." I'm glad it didn't bring on a wave. Sometimes I wonder if small short doses of stress and then successful recovery, like what you just experienced, might be good "practice" for our nervous system. It builds stress tolerance or what can be called inoculation... Like boosting immunity. I'm not saying that what happened was a good thing, but that you didn't experience a wave and recovered from what sounds like an extended period of stress... I think that sounds Like progress.

[brassmonkey]

The big thing is that you made it through, and have that success to build on.  Next time it shouldn't be as bad because you have done it all before.  I have a love/ hate relationship with computers that developed during my time on paxil.  Pre paxil home computers were a new thing and everyone was going through the same learning curve, but while on paxil my comprehensive and reasoning abilities were shot and it all became so frustrating I couldn't deal with it.  Now my head is clearing to the point I can start to understand things better and they are not nearly as frustrating, but don't get me started on cellphones.  However even those are improving.  The systems are so complex now a days even the "experts" don't fully understand them which leaves us cognitively impaired people at a real disadvantage.  DW Monica is a total wiz on her cellphone, during our recent road trip we visited many areas that didn't have cell coverage and she actually went into WD.  It's not that she had to be talking to people (she rarely does) but the information/navigation aspects have become so important to everyday life, especially on the road, that it was a significant loss.

 

I'm glad you've gotten reconnected and hopefully the stress of it will fade soon.

[Petunia]

    

 

I 'spoke' too soon, and didn't escape as unscathed as I first thought. The extreme stress of the situation caused a delayed reaction I think. My baseline feels like its dropped a bit and yesterday was one of the worst days I've had in a very long time. I was back to the second by second survival techniques just to get through the day and I didn't get my usual evening semi-window.

 

Sensitivity to sound was back and every noise felt like a blow to my stomach. After 4 years off SSRIs and over two years completely drug free, this is pretty disappointing and has aroused a new wave of secondary fears about my ability to heal, but I guess that's understandable.

 

Sometimes I wonder if small short doses of stress and then successful recovery, like what you just experienced, might be good "practice" for our nervous system. It builds stress tolerance or what can be called inoculation... Like boosting immunity. I'm not saying that what happened was a good thing, but that you didn't experience a wave and recovered from what sounds like an extended period of stress... I think that sounds Like progress.

 

This is exactly what I thought when it appeared I had escaped waveless   I was thinking yay! me, I can go through some high stress and recover in a day or two, like I used to. But no, it just took a few days for the effects to show. I do agree with you that small stresses and then recovery from them might be beneficial during some stage of healing, but I think this was a bit too much too soon. It dug up a lot of old trauma.

 

The big thing is that you made it through, and have that success to build on.  Next time it shouldn't be as bad because you have done it all before.

 

I'm trying really, really hard to find the silver lining in this one, but so far I can't see it. Someone else commented the same thing to me actually, well, she posed it as a question really. Did I think that if I had to go through the same thing again next week, would I find it easier.

 

Picking up the phone to call tech support might be less anxiety provoking, because I've done it now and it wasn't as bad as I thought. But I realized that this was about so much more than just having internet problems, its kind of set free a new batch of my ongoing can of worms which first got loose when withdrawal lifted the lid on everything which I guess the drugs had been holding in place.

 

I wasn't ready to deal with it yet, I'm trying to shove these worms back in for a bit longer

 

But today was better than yesterday and I'm not feeling the intense physical fear sensations like I was all day yesterday, so maybe this is going to be a short wave. My brain is also working a bit better again, its been in a kind of frozen/resistance state.

 

So, that's about it really

 

Thanks for your comment ang, the one about all the pills, I wish I'd never taken any of them, no matter what color they were.

[pug]

 

 

But today was better than yesterday and I'm not feeling the intense physical fear sensations like I was all day yesterday, so maybe this is going to be a short wave. My brain is also working a bit better again, its been in a kind of frozen/resistance state.

 

 

Petunia,

 

I am happy to hear that you had a better day and I hope it is a springboard to helping you moving forward.  I appreciate all that you contribute here and you have helped me a great deal!

[LucaDiProspero]

Petunia you are so strong...I have been only 8 months in wd and I'm alreay thinking about reinstating or goinf for a new drug.

How do you stand all the pshysical and mental pain in wd without the temptation of a new drug (AD, AP or benzo) to take for a possible relief?

I'm fighting with this thought all the day long!

[Petunia]

Thank you pug and I'm glad I've been able to help.

 

How do you stand all the pshysical and mental pain in wd without the temptation of a new drug (AD, AP or benzo) to take for a possible relief?
I'm fighting with this thought all the day long!

 

I'm sorry you are going through this too Luca. The reason I don't try taking more drugs for relief is because I've already tried it and it made me worse, much worse.

 

Before I found this site and realized what I was experiencing was withdrawal and a destabilized nervous system, I was using a variety of medications on an irregular basis, trying to manage symptoms to keep functioning. I was doing this for over 2 years. At one point I was taking a small amount of xanax every second day. I thought this would keep me from getting addicted to it. I didn't know that it was putting me into withdrawal every other day, causing further destabilization. I started taking it more often, out of desperation, I created an addiction anyway and didn't realize that either. No tapering when I stopped, so I have protracted benzo withdrawal too.

 

Early in 2013 I tried taking Prozac, the following month I tried reinstating Lexapro after having been off it for 2 years. I started experiencing intense rage, then suicidal urges, at levels which were becoming uncontrollable. I'm so glad I realized this was being caused by the drugs, so I stopped taking them, both times, within days.

 

Unfortunately this, along with going back on my ADHD meds for a couple of weeks, really set my recovery back. Symptoms which had completely gone away, came back and stayed back...and I still didn't know I was in withdrawal.

 

I found the withdrawal forums in May 2013 and learned that it was the drugs that were causing my problems. I had made a bad situation much worse, by trying to fix it with more of what caused the problem in the first place... so that's why I'm not tempted.

 

Yes, my life is bad and I feel really awful for much of the time, but since I stopped putting those pills in my mouth, things have very slowly been improving. I don't notice the improvements daily or even weekly. I have to look back to 6 months ago, or even a year to notice.

 

There are three main things which are getting me through this. Acceptance that this is the way my life is right now, and there's nothing I can do about it. Faith that I will eventually recover as long as I don't do further damage to myself with more drugs and holding the whole process in a spiritual context so that there is meaning and value to what I'm going through....something along the lines of this: The Descent Experience

 

None of this is easy though and I struggle almost every day, trying to hold these concepts in place.

[Petunia]

Update time

 

I've been feeling a bit better since Sunday (3 days ago). Morning cortisol symptoms haven't been as intense and they have been subsiding earlier than usual. I've had some hints of motivation and urges to get out and do things, so far, I haven't acted on them, apart from a spontaneous visit to the mall on Sunday, but I see the fact that I'm wanting to do things as a big improvement.

 

Two days in a row I managed to sit outside in the warm winter sun and feel calm, relaxed and content. This was a pleasant surprise because it usually triggers a rise in anxiety and I immediately start to feel restless. Its raining again today, which is fine, since going into withdrawal I've started preferring rainy days for some reason.

 

Not sure if I mentioned it before, but I started taking vitamin D3. I started with 2000IU on the 10th. I finally got around to opening the the iHerb order, which had arrived while I was in the middle of my internet freak out. I'd ordered some different D3, a liquid with vit K added, so I've put my dose up to 2500IU now. From all the reading and research I've done, this is still nowhere near high enough, if I actually have a deficiency, which I think I do. But I'm not about to go and get tested, so considering withdrawal sensitivities, I'm just going to increase gradually and see if I start to feel better.

 

Something has changed and I can't quite put my finger on what it is... an inner spark of hope has been re-ignited. I still can't see anything positive in the future, but its like I can sense that something good is there, its a subtle change, but something has happened.

 

For the last several days I've been able to relax when preparing food, I've been able to be more in the moment while doing things which previously had me feeling anxious and hurried. Its not that I'm actually enjoying anything yet, but my NS seems to have calmed down a notch or two so I'm not constantly feeling like there are tigers around every corner.

 

I'm sleeping through the night, waking around 6am and I'm able to get up and eat something small by about 7am, to take my morning supplements with. I've finally found a morning routine which seems to be working, I can eat a few teaspoons of ricotta cheese.

 

I'm remembering my dreams and they mostly seem to be trying to show me things related to my past, patterns which didn't work.

 

I still don't know what I want to do with the rest of my life, but for the last few days I've felt like I'm going to have a life worth doing something with. This isn't a window, I think (hope) my baseline rose a bit.

 

Along with the improvement, I had a couple of days of mild pain on the right side of my body, an ache in my right leg, shoulder and right side of my head. Its gone now, I assumed it would, once that particular bit of the repair process was complete.  Most of my physical symptoms have been on the right side of my body.

 

I stopped taking magnesium in the morning (again), I felt it was making me a bit too 'depressed'. I had needed it while I was going through the internet related stress, but not any more, so I'm back to just taking it at night.

 

Next, I'm going to try omega 3 fish oil, again. This will be about the 4th or 5th time I'm going to try. I've bought a high quality liquid this time so I can start with a very small dose, but I'm going to wait a couple more weeks first to let the D3 updose settle in.

[LoveandLight]

I'm considering vit D also..as a Scottish person I'm sure I'm deficient..it's summer here and we don't even have warm summer sun! The tests I have had done are clear (from the doc) but I think even if it's low it can still show as 'normal'.

 

Are you still taking vit c? Do you think that has helped overall?

 

I'm glad for your improvement.

[raul]

Hello petunia, having a very bad day today with crying most of the day and bad sleep related with high cortisol level due to withdrawl symptoms, y have read most of your posts and i am really amazed about how strong person you are really!!. I can tell you that after a fast taper i am now with strong withdrawl symptoms, some days are better but some aren't but the worst thing to me is the high cortisol, when i have it then i know that the next day will be horrible.

Really, i think that all you have been through, made you a better person and that you have taught (past of the verb teach, sorry but english is not my mother tongue) a lot about yourself and that you are in the right way, i am very sure about that. Your posts are incredible, they show with a lot of deepness a lot about your feelings, mood, etc. Really, it has helped me a lot to read you and sometimes to relativise aspects of my life. Thanks, sincerely. A big hug.

[Petunia]

I'm considering vit D also..as a Scottish person I'm sure I'm deficient..it's summer here and we don't even have warm summer sun! The tests I have had done are clear (from the doc) but I think even if it's low it can still show as 'normal'.

 

Are you still taking vit c? Do you think that has helped overall?

 

I'm glad for your improvement.

 

Thanks for posting L&L. I've thought I was D deficient for a long time, but taking it in earlier withdrawal increased my symptoms, so I gave up. More recently I did quite a lot of research and of course, learned a lot. The thing which really got my attention was some of the symptoms of vitamin D deficiency, include fatigue, anxiety, panic and depression.

 

What were your levels when you got them checked?  On a scale of 1 to 100 ng/ml, 70 to 90 is ideal. Above 50 is recommended by Vitamin D Council. But from what I learned, levels in the 20's and 30's are sometimes considered normal by many doctors.

 

I learned a lot from this forum.

 

I watched youtube videos made by people who actually had a deficiency and what they went through, along with reading forums and various studies. After that, it was pretty obvious it was part of my problem. But the solution isn't always as simple as getting 10-20 minutes of sun every day. If you live too far north or south, or if its winter, it can be difficult to get enough direct exposure.

 

I've got short term memory problems, so I don't retain much of what I learn these days, but I think I read that Vitamin D is a hormone and is needed for all the other hormones to be made in the body, so if you are deficient in it, then things are not going to be working so well.

 

About vitamin C: It hasn't been a miracle cure , but it hasn't hurt, it may be helping in a long term kind of way because I know I haven't been getting enough of it from my diet. I haven't been able to eat enough of the foods which contain it, so supplementing it is probably helping over time.

 

Something I've been doing is helping because on Tuesday, I was able to do some fairly heavy housework without feeling like I was going to pass out after 10 minutes. Its been about 3 years since I've been able to do this kind of activity for an extended period without suffering the consequences. I even felt a very slight sense of satisfaction from it.

 

There are actually 3 things which could be contributing to my starting to feel better now, vitamins are only one of them.

 

Hello petunia, having a very bad day today with crying most of the day and bad sleep related with high cortisol level due to withdrawl symptoms,............

 

.........Really, it has helped me a lot to read you and sometimes to relativise aspects of my life. Thanks, sincerely. A big hug.

 

Hang in there raul, you are going to get through this, I see you just reinstated. I posted some links on your thread, which might be helpful. I'm glad reading my thread has helped you. I'm the same in that reading about others going through the same things helps me to feel less alone and gives me hope that this is all part of the process of recovery.

 

We are like a great big withdrawal family scattered all over the world, supporting and helping each other to get through one of the hardest times of our lives... and your English is fine by the way, I don't know any Spanish except maybe one or two words.

 

((hugs))

[Athena]

Petunia, I am so glad that you are starting to have the energy to do more physical work. I know we can really feel handicapped in this WD crazy prison. I still think of you often when I am able to do more physical activity too, because of the time you suggested I go back to zumba even if the first time had been difficult and I did and I was grateful for your advice.

 

It is very nice when I read that you see some improvement. I have been reading you for a while and it feels so good when I can feel a ray of light in your writings because I know all the suffering you have been through.

 

I would very much like to know what are the 2 other things that are helping you!!  Or did I miss it?!

 

Winds of healing your way,

 

Athena

[Petunia]

Thanks Athena, I'm so glad my advice about sticking with zumba worked out well for you. From what I've noticed through my time here and reading thousands of posts is that it seems like there is a 'point' in recovery where pushing a little bit on the exercise becomes a positive thing. Some people never get sick enough to have to be careful with exercise and for them, it seems to be a positive right from the start. The other end of the spectrum are people who are so destabilized that even the slightest exertion will bring on a wave of increased symptoms.

 

This is something which has been incredibly frustrating for me because for most of my adult life, exercise has been a tool which has helped me to feel better, not all the time, of course but going to the gym, doing classes, walking along bush tracks, bike riding and working in the garden have all been activities which have added quality to my life, but now, more often than not, even small amounts of increased activity bring on sudden, frightening symptoms. But I never know when its going to effect me like that. One day I will be ok, another day, doing the same thing will bring on the symptoms, it makes me scared to try things. There's a difference between something being a bit difficult and making you tired, and it suddenly causing debilitating symptoms.

 

I think I'm at a point where I'm just starting to be able to do more, sometimes, as long as I'm not in a wave, which I am now. I got hit by another one late Thurday.  But as waves go, this is not a terrible one and part of what makes it bad is the disappointment of losing the improvement (again), getting my hopes up and having them crushed over and over as this pattern of recovery keeps dragging me along is wearing me down.

 

I'm running out of energy to look for a 'cause' for this one, as usual, there are several possibilities to choose from, one related to food, one to wasps and then there was the TV panel 'discussion' which got me all riled up.

 

I would very much like to know what are the 2 other things that are helping you!!  Or did I miss it?!

 

No, you didn't miss anything, I just wasn't really up to writing about them, I'm even less up to it now. But one of them was related to a healing group I was asked to join. The other is that I think I may have discovered the real cause of my 'differences' and why I have struggled most of my life with certain things which most people find easy.  I got a fairly high score on the Aspie Quiz and then did a bunch more research, watched some relevant videos and my whole life started to make sense...not that there's much I can do about it, but it sort of takes the pressure off. I am what I am and trying to turn myself into something different has been what's caused a lot of my problems. Actually, other people expecting me to change would have been the start of it.

 

 

 

[Muddles]

'I am what I am and trying to turn myself into something different has been what's caused a lot of my problems.'

 

yes - I have realised this too. I have actually also come to realise that although I felt like I couldn't fit in with people sometimes or felt different - I was actually more normal than those I struggled to be around. It wasn't me - it was them!!! If that makes sense?

[AliG]

 I'm so glad you're feeling better, Petu. For those of us that are dense at the moment, you might have to spell things out, a little more.  What are the three things ???    

 

 I also think we have to stop living up to other people's "expectations". When we stop that B/S, it feels like a whole lot of weight has been lifted, off us.

 

 Take care of yourself, Petunia.