Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 14, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 14, 2016 Sleep update: Last night drank warm milk and took one squirt of CBD Oil. Took a little bit to fall asleep but slept from 11-5 with the CPAP Machine. Dog woke me at 5 so I took her out and fed her. Went back to bed and slept until around 7:45 again with the machine. Far and away the best night's sleep in a long time. I have no idea if the CBD Oil made a difference, but if it requires me to smoke 2 joints and eat 3 laced brownies every night I would gladly do it! Since CBD Oil is legal in all 50 states in the US I don't have to go that route and I suspect I was probably exhausted rather than the CBD being the difference, but I will try the same routine tonight. Best, Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
nz11 Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Wow Andy thats fabulous.... thank you so much for that benzo equiv table....oh and fabulous you got some good sleep too of course! Gee i need to save that in my intro. Wow it really is 20 times more potent.... I also slept well last night didnt wake until 5.15 i consider anything this side of 5 a win. Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 16, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 16, 2016 Latest update on the sleep front: Saturday night, fell asleep with CPAP machine around 12:15 pretty easily but woke up at 2 (wife came in from a job she was working) and couldn't fall back. Went to family room at 3:00 and slept pretty well until 7:45 or so. Total of 6 hours of decent but somewhat broken sleep. Sunday night, fell asleep around 10:45 and slept with CPAP machine until around 3:45 until dog woke me (or I woke her -- not sure). Fell asleep in family room after feeding her. Slept another almost 1.5 hours. Total of close to 6.5 hours. Improving overall. Have felt an increased amount of detachment in the form of dp/dr. Hoping that as sleep regulates I can stabilize. It's been a while since I've really felt like I'm in a good place from a stability standpoint. This process is so frustrating. Hard to imagine how we all deal with this for so long. Best, Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted May 16, 2016 Administrator Share Posted May 16, 2016 This is good. Hang in there, I've had many changes in sleep pattern, you might get by with this one for a while. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 16, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 16, 2016 Thanks, Alto. Hoping if I get enough sleep I will feel better and come out of what has been a prolonged downturn/wave. Just haven't been feeling very well the past couple of months. Hate to whine, but... sometimes it feels good. Best, Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Shep Posted May 17, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 17, 2016 Andy, you've been supporting everyone here selflessly, even during your own pain, so I definitely would not put you in the "whine" category at all. Since part of your insomnia is due to "external" forces (wife, dog) and you have an amazing ability to go back to sleep, hopefully your sleep will improve soon. Insomnia just makes everything else so much worse, especially as the days, weeks, and months pass. Sending healing vibes your way. I hope your sleep improves soon. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 17, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 17, 2016 Andy, you've been supporting everyone here selflessly, even during your own pain, so I definitely would not put you in the "whine" category at all. Thanks, Shep. That's very kind of you to say. It's so hard when you are struggling, trying to balance between "staying strong" and reporting how crappy you feel. Trying to avoid crossing that line and wallowing in self-pity (although it would be good right about now!). Since part of your insomnia is due to "external" forces (wife, dog) and you have an amazing ability to go back to sleep, hopefully your sleep will improve soon. Insomnia just makes everything else so much worse, especially as the days, weeks, and months pass. I HAD BEEN doing a decent job of going back to sleep. Woke at 2 last night and could not go back for the life of me. Very frustrating. On the positive side, saw a good episode of Law and Order: SVU at 5. Sending healing vibes your way. I hope your sleep improves soon. Thanks, Shep. You are right that it's so hard to parse out what is "withdrawal" and what is feeling crappy because of lack of sleep. I feel like I've been in a worsening wave the past 8 weeks or so, but that generally corresponds with the insomnia onset so it could very well be that my baseline is the same but totally adversely impacted by the lack of sleep and associated angst. Appreciate your concern and input. Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 18, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 18, 2016 Every day is different and, of late, none are really very good, unfortunately. Last night, I took a little more than 1/2 of a hydroxyzine to help with sleep. I've been doing that on Tuesdays since I work from home on Wednesdays and a little grogginess is less of an issue. Rather than help me nod off, I was pretty amped up at bedtime. Pains in various parts of my body, including my stomach. Need to urinate and tons of gas. I'm not sure if the medicine went paradoxical on me but I was sweating and fairly highly agitated. Tried to fall asleep in bed with the CPAP machine but that wasn't happening. Took off the mask and tried to fall asleep in bed without it. No luck. At 12:30 I went into the family room and lay down on the couch. Not sure when I fell asleep -- my guess is around 1:30 -- and slept until 5:45. Took out the dog and fed her and went back to sleep until about 7:45. Probably got about 6 hours so the overall sleep wasn't terrible, but I just feel generally crappy. Woke to a little bit of anxiety which has dissipated to some degree by now. Just keep waiting for this wave to pass so I can find the baseline I was at a few weeks/months back. Also trying to address the secondary fear around sleeping which is cropping up from time to time. Best to all, Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Shep Posted May 18, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 18, 2016 I fear you're right that it may be a paradoxical reaction. When was your last valerian reduction? Do you think that might be connected? If you do use hydroxyzine again, perhaps next time go with a lower dose, especially if your CNS is becoming more hyper-sensitive. And try not to listen to those "secondary fears"! They are all lies. The fear of not being able to sleep was huge for me and still "haunts" me some nights. Guided meditations can sometimes help with that. I hope you sleep better tonight. And hopefully your dog will sleep later, too. Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted May 18, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 18, 2016 Hi Andy-- I don't have any suggestions but just wanted you to know that I'm keeping an eye on you and if I think of anything I'll bring it up. 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 18, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 18, 2016 Thanks for the good thoughts, Shep. If I try the Hydroxyzine again I will use a very small amount. It may well have been paradoxical even though I only used it once a week max and a total of 3 times I think. I thought about the Valerian reduction. I went from 90% to 80% of the original capsule amount on Monday and did the same Tuesday. I'm figuring a 10% per week taper should be slow enough for an herbal remedy. I don't know if it's related or not. I will say I feel worse over the past couple of weeks (since starting the reducing of Valerian) but not specifically with regard to sleep. Just an overall sense of unwellness that is more vague than anything else. I hear you on secondary fear. Of course, when you are feeling them they seem pretty "primary" and "primal". Best, Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 18, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 18, 2016 Hi Andy-- I don't have any suggestions but just wanted you to know that I'm keeping an eye on you and if I think of anything I'll bring it up. Thanks, Tom. Much appreciated. Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 19, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 19, 2016 Update on the sleep situation: Last night slept with the CPAP machine from 11-3:30. Woke up to go to the bathroom and was feeling some increased cortisol and agitation. Tried to go back to sleep with machine but couldn't. I got up and took the dog out and fed her and then slept on the couch from 4-5:45. Total of 6:15 of sleep that was pretty decent with only one break. Took no sleep aids. At some point, hopefully, this will all translate into feeling better during the day. Right now, still not feeling great with dp/dr very annoying. Best, Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
bromor Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 I'm glad to hear you did get some sleep last night. Wish I had "magical" advice to give you ~ unfortunately I don't. Just explore natural ways of supporting your body (gently of course). Maybe some adaptogens like ashwagandha, rhodiola and eleuthero would be helpful. Also, can't stress how important magnesium is. Hope you feel better soon! On Zoloft for 10 years (50 mg) for GAD & panic attacks Weaned off fall of 2013, terrible set back in Feb '14 back on 100 mg & trazadone to sleep. Did CT off of Zoloft in May 2014 - bad decision! Back on 50 mg Zoloft & Xanax as needed (was upped to 75 mg by doctor in Feb 2015) Started to wean off of Zoloft in April 2015 ~ totally off Zoloft in Oct 2015 and now am on Buspar 11.25 mg to help. I was on a 50 mg pill & 25 mg pill - I cut the 25 mg pill in half (12.5) and took that with the 50 for 6 weeks - 1st week June 2015 50 mg for another 6 weeks. 25 mg in half and the 50 mg in half (37.5), 25 mg mid Sept for about 2 weeks.,1/2 of the 25 mg last week of Sept/1st week of Oct then off. Update** 9 mg Zoloft reinstated early Nov 15, along with 1.5 mg Buspar daily. On .50 of Buspar & 9 mg of Zoloft. Oct '16 - off of Buspar, Nov '16 - down to 7.5 mg Zoloft. March'17 - 4 mg Zoloft. July'17 - 2 mg, Sept 1 mg. Oct'17 - off! Done! I also take magnesium, L theanine, Gaba Calm, L Glutamine, Vit B complex(for methyl issues), Liver & Gall bladder support, Zinc, Whole Food Vit C & Fish Oil. DARE & the bible are the tools I use to help navigate this process. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 19, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 19, 2016 I'm glad to hear you did get some sleep last night. Wish I had "magical" advice to give you ~ unfortunately I don't. Just explore natural ways of supporting your body (gently of course). Maybe some adaptogens like ashwagandha, rhodiola and eleuthero would be helpful. Also, can't stress how important magnesium is. Hope you feel better soon! Thanks, Bromor! Appreciate your checking in. I am a magnesium taker on a regular basis. I take AM and PM magnesium and spray it on after shaving as well. I'm sipping at my Calm drink as I type. As far as the adaptogens go, I'm into a "less is more" period as I think I've tried too many things and my CNS is pretty raw at this point. When I tried Ashwaganda a while back it didn't seem to help or hurt (but that was probably 9 months ago). More recently I tried Rhodiola and it seemed to rev me up a little so I dropped it. As an aside, if I could resell the open bottles of things I've tried, I could probably retire! Hope you are well, Bromor. Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
Weasel Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 I tried the sertraline liquid and it killed my stomach . It has alcohol and menthol in it. Reaction for you? I went back to the pills it was a better experience . Zoloft 6mg gabapentin 600 mg lamictal 25 mg Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 19, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 19, 2016 I tried the sertraline liquid and it killed my stomach . It has alcohol and menthol in it. Reaction for you? I went back to the pills it was a better experience . I've been using it and I dislike it very much. I've gotten more used to it, but have considered returning to pill form as I feel like I haven't really settled in since switching to all liquid. I plan to give it another several weeks on the all liquid to see if I stabilize because I think the accuracy for tapering is better with the syringe than the scale but that may be an overstatement. Best, Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
bromor Posted May 19, 2016 Share Posted May 19, 2016 "As an aside, if I could resell the open bottles of things I've tried, I could probably retire!" ~ I could at least take a nice vacation if I could sell my open bottles!! Grateful now that I'm not buying stuff that I'm not using. It's expensive enough to buy what I do use. Yes ~ I do agree that your CNS needs rest before anything else. Wishing you sweet sleep tonight. On Zoloft for 10 years (50 mg) for GAD & panic attacks Weaned off fall of 2013, terrible set back in Feb '14 back on 100 mg & trazadone to sleep. Did CT off of Zoloft in May 2014 - bad decision! Back on 50 mg Zoloft & Xanax as needed (was upped to 75 mg by doctor in Feb 2015) Started to wean off of Zoloft in April 2015 ~ totally off Zoloft in Oct 2015 and now am on Buspar 11.25 mg to help. I was on a 50 mg pill & 25 mg pill - I cut the 25 mg pill in half (12.5) and took that with the 50 for 6 weeks - 1st week June 2015 50 mg for another 6 weeks. 25 mg in half and the 50 mg in half (37.5), 25 mg mid Sept for about 2 weeks.,1/2 of the 25 mg last week of Sept/1st week of Oct then off. Update** 9 mg Zoloft reinstated early Nov 15, along with 1.5 mg Buspar daily. On .50 of Buspar & 9 mg of Zoloft. Oct '16 - off of Buspar, Nov '16 - down to 7.5 mg Zoloft. March'17 - 4 mg Zoloft. July'17 - 2 mg, Sept 1 mg. Oct'17 - off! Done! I also take magnesium, L theanine, Gaba Calm, L Glutamine, Vit B complex(for methyl issues), Liver & Gall bladder support, Zinc, Whole Food Vit C & Fish Oil. DARE & the bible are the tools I use to help navigate this process. Link to comment
bromor Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 How was your sleep over the weekend? On Zoloft for 10 years (50 mg) for GAD & panic attacks Weaned off fall of 2013, terrible set back in Feb '14 back on 100 mg & trazadone to sleep. Did CT off of Zoloft in May 2014 - bad decision! Back on 50 mg Zoloft & Xanax as needed (was upped to 75 mg by doctor in Feb 2015) Started to wean off of Zoloft in April 2015 ~ totally off Zoloft in Oct 2015 and now am on Buspar 11.25 mg to help. I was on a 50 mg pill & 25 mg pill - I cut the 25 mg pill in half (12.5) and took that with the 50 for 6 weeks - 1st week June 2015 50 mg for another 6 weeks. 25 mg in half and the 50 mg in half (37.5), 25 mg mid Sept for about 2 weeks.,1/2 of the 25 mg last week of Sept/1st week of Oct then off. Update** 9 mg Zoloft reinstated early Nov 15, along with 1.5 mg Buspar daily. On .50 of Buspar & 9 mg of Zoloft. Oct '16 - off of Buspar, Nov '16 - down to 7.5 mg Zoloft. March'17 - 4 mg Zoloft. July'17 - 2 mg, Sept 1 mg. Oct'17 - off! Done! I also take magnesium, L theanine, Gaba Calm, L Glutamine, Vit B complex(for methyl issues), Liver & Gall bladder support, Zinc, Whole Food Vit C & Fish Oil. DARE & the bible are the tools I use to help navigate this process. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 23, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 23, 2016 How was your sleep over the weekend? Thanks for checking in on me, Bromor. Very nice of you. My sleep has actually been somewhat improved over the past several days. I've been able to sleep 6-7 hours (a little broken but not terribly so) with the machine. My wife was out of town so I was able to get back into bed after taking the dog out rather than having to sleep on the couch so I think that helped some. I have not taken any meds for sleep since last Tuesday night when the Hydroxyzine didn't really do the trick so I consider that a good sign. Up until this morning I would have said I was feeling a whole lot better. This morning I had some increased dizziness which triggered some health anxiety. Got though it with some breathing, distraction, etc. but it reinforced for me how fragile my CNS is and that we are constantly walking on the "razor's edge." When you think you are moving to a slightly higher level there is always a chance that you will slip back without any real reason that you can discern. Frustrating but reality I suppose. In any event, I now have some tightness in the jaw from clenching no doubt. You will appreciate that I went for a morning walk and listened to Barry McDonogh on the DARE audiobook. Best, Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Shep Posted May 23, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 23, 2016 So good to hear you're sleeping better, Andy. Sounds like you're handling things as they come. There's a 3 day weekend coming up, so that's a positive to help get through the workweek. Sending healing vibes your way. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 24, 2016 So, last night I was uptight before bed but I still slept from 11 to 4:15 with the machine. I woke in a VERY anxious state, was not able to go back to sleep, and have been pretty agitated since. I am thinking it may be tied to my reduction in Valerian. I've been doing 10% per week and last night was the night to drop from 80% to 70% in my dose. I'm torn between hoping it was that -- otherwise it's an unexplained wave -- and being frustrated that I may need to "slow taper" the Valerian. I'm having some anger at my CNS at the present moment, as in "you are such a baby! Why can't you be a little bit tougher?" I will see how I feel as the day progresses and go from 70% to 75% if I'm not improved. Best to all, Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus bubble Posted May 24, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 24, 2016 I know the feeling Andy... on the other hand your CNS is a tough thing having been through so much. I began to see my supplementing as an expression of my need to do something but came to believe it will get better over time if we don't interfere with the process. It seems to me things are improving despite still being quite wavy. We are getting there (slower than we would like to but we are). Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2 2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013) Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg. 2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days afterreinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours 28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr 2015 1 mg, 25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64 Xanax 9 month hold 24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26 Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 24, 2016 I I began to see my supplementing as an expression of my need to do something but came to believe it will get better over time if we don't interfere with the process. I am in TOTAL AGREEMENT, Bubble. My screw-ups have all been the result of hubris and belief that I can do better and fix the problems. By now I know that others have walked all the paths I might try to travel and, hence, my efforts at getting off all supplements other than magnesium, Omega 3 and Vitamin D. This, of course, led to the Valerian taper and the possibility of suffering on the way down. It seems to me things are improving despite still being quite wavy. I think that for most of us we have to hit a bottom at some point before we go up. If we c/t off the meds we hit bottom early and then improve over a longer time. If we taper too aggressively we tend to see worsening and then hit a bottom where we understand how the process works better and then increase over time. If we taper properly from day 1 (who among us has done that?) we maximize the chances that we minimize the harm and one can hope that the bottom is not too deep and comes quickly but there is still some point that you can look back at and say "that was the worst part." I'm definitely not "as good" as when I started this process but I'm hoping that I'm better than what I hope was my bottom (which was the 3-4 days consecutive of non-sleep). This, of course, assumes smart tapering from here and is, as you can appreciate, pure conjecture on my part. Best, Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted May 24, 2016 Moderator Share Posted May 24, 2016 Hi Andy-- everything I can find says Valerian WD can be similar to benzo WD especially in long time users, and lists agitation as one of the symptoms. I hate to say it but maybe you need to slow down. It's looking like none of this s*** is anywhere close to benign. I hope it's just a one day thing and settles out soon. Brass 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 24, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 24, 2016 Hi Andy-- everything I can find says Valerian WD can be similar to benzo WD especially in long time users, and lists agitation as one of the symptoms. I hate to say it but maybe you need to slow down. It's looking like none of this s*** is anywhere close to benign. I hope it's just a one day thing and settles out soon. Thanks, Tom. Yes, I suspect you were right in the first instance. I think I will try going back up to 75% of the original Valerian dose today and see how that does. I still am hoping I can taper it faster than I would a benzo for lord's sake. Maybe I can do 5% a week and see how that goes. I've read about tons of people that go off Valerian without a taper and seem to do fine, but I guess they didn't taper a benzo for 2 years followed by an 18+ (and counting) SSRI taper that truly slammed the heck out of their CNS! Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 25, 2016 Reading a very inspirational and practical book on brain change called "Beat Depression and Anxiety by Changing your Brain" by Debbie Hampton. The author attempted suicide and was left with significant brain damage and the book discusses the tools she employed in recovery. Well-written and concise and it's hard to deny when it comes from someone who has "been there, done that." Really think it can bebeneficial to those of us dealing with withdrawal and its effects. On a related note I ordered Lisa Wimberger's CD on Neurosculpting after considering several programs including Ashok Gupta's Amygdala Retraining. For $50 it seemed like a good way to stick a toe in and see how it goes. Went up a little in Valerian last night and a little less agitated today. Not perfect but better. Sleep was ok until I was woken by a family member. Hard time falling back. Total of about 5:15. Hope all are managing. Best, Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
bromor Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 I had never heard of issues with getting off of valerian ~ but then again, I have to agree with you that having a sensitive CNS changes everything! For me, I hit rock bottom after not one but two ct. Yes, I still have sensations (and I wish they would go away!!) but, I'm learning to accept them & realize that my body is healing. Your body is healing too. Glad to hear you got some sleep. I went to bed late & was up at 4:15 with my dog ~ and you know how it is.....no sleep after that! Just a side note ~ I started taking the kavinace because I wasn't aware of the potential WD issues ect. I was just desperate for sleep ~ after reading what you're going through, guess I'd better start preparing myself for that taper. Ugh!!! Hindsight is always 20/20! On Zoloft for 10 years (50 mg) for GAD & panic attacks Weaned off fall of 2013, terrible set back in Feb '14 back on 100 mg & trazadone to sleep. Did CT off of Zoloft in May 2014 - bad decision! Back on 50 mg Zoloft & Xanax as needed (was upped to 75 mg by doctor in Feb 2015) Started to wean off of Zoloft in April 2015 ~ totally off Zoloft in Oct 2015 and now am on Buspar 11.25 mg to help. I was on a 50 mg pill & 25 mg pill - I cut the 25 mg pill in half (12.5) and took that with the 50 for 6 weeks - 1st week June 2015 50 mg for another 6 weeks. 25 mg in half and the 50 mg in half (37.5), 25 mg mid Sept for about 2 weeks.,1/2 of the 25 mg last week of Sept/1st week of Oct then off. Update** 9 mg Zoloft reinstated early Nov 15, along with 1.5 mg Buspar daily. On .50 of Buspar & 9 mg of Zoloft. Oct '16 - off of Buspar, Nov '16 - down to 7.5 mg Zoloft. March'17 - 4 mg Zoloft. July'17 - 2 mg, Sept 1 mg. Oct'17 - off! Done! I also take magnesium, L theanine, Gaba Calm, L Glutamine, Vit B complex(for methyl issues), Liver & Gall bladder support, Zinc, Whole Food Vit C & Fish Oil. DARE & the bible are the tools I use to help navigate this process. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 25, 2016 I had never heard of issues with getting off of valerian ~ but then again, I have to agree with you that having a sensitive CNS changes everything! Neither had I but Tom (Brassmonkey) has researched it and seen it repeatedly. I guess after a 2 year benzo taper that Valerian helped me bridge it makes sense that the Valerian binded more tightly to my GABA receptors and needs a slower taper. More fun from your friends at "withdrawal world!" Just a side note ~ I started taking the kavinace because I wasn't aware of the potential WD issues ect. I was just desperate for sleep ~ after reading what you're going through, guess I'd better start preparing myself for that taper. Ugh!!! Hindsight is always 20/20! You did what you had to do, Bromor! No self-castigation needed. It will certainly not be as bad as the med withdrawal. In this regard I found the following on Monica Cassini's website, beyondmeds.com, to be particularly instructive: https://beyondmeds.com/2013/02/24/dogma-anti-meds/ Best to you, Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
kitschywoman Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I don't do sleep aids any more. First (aside from Klonopin, which I'd take in the middle of the night), they wouldn't really keep me from waking up early, which is my main problem. And then they just gave me one more thing that would affect my already sensitive system. :/ Started Celexa in 2001, moved to Lexapro (at doctor's suggestion), then Cymbalta (when Lexapro pooped out), stayed on Cymbalta for several years until it pooped out in 2011 (had a hospital stay and polydrugging that included Seroquel, Trazodone, Remeron, Ambien and Klonopin...never at the same time...just individually with my AD for insomnia). Tried Celexa again without much success and then settled on Zoloft (Sertraline) in 2012. 2012-2014 - Sertraline 150mg 2014-2015 - Sertraline 100mg (after unsuccessfully discontinuing and having to reinstate after about 3 months) Summer 2015 - Cut dose down to 50 mg over several weeks, but started having anxiety and insomnia again. Fall 2015-Spring 2016 - Stabilized at 75mg in September 2015 and held until May 2016. May 2016-December 2016 - **STARTED BRASSMONKEY SLIDE** Moved from 75mg (25mg liquid and 50mg tablet) down to 50mg. January 2017-May 2017 - HOLD at 50mg May 2017 - Starting to taper again from 50mg (25mg liquid and 25mg tablet) February 2018 - Now at 25mg Sertraline and holding for one year (just to give the ol' noggin a rest) Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Shep Posted May 25, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 25, 2016 On a related note I ordered Lisa Wimberger's CD on Neurosculpting after considering several programs including Ashok Gupta's Amygdala Retraining. For $50 it seemed like a good way to stick a toe in and see how it goes. Hi, Andy. I watched a video by Lisa Wimberger about this and would be very interested in what you think of the CD. Sending healing vibes your way. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 25, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 25, 2016 For those of you interested, here is a link to a free seminar on anxiety that you might be interested in listening to some or all of: http://www.theanxietysummit.com/s4/welcome/ Best, Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 26, 2016 So, now I must say I'm more that a little frustrated. Seem to be back into a wave and not sure what, if anything, I might have done to trigger it. Tired of the random acts of nastiness that this process foists upon us. Last night I was feeling a little increased anxiety in the evening so I took my Valerian early to see if that would quell the anxiety on the theory that would give me a better sense as to whether the anxiety is a function, at least to some degree, of Valerian withdrawal. Over the space of the next hour or so it definitely helped me calm down some (I have gone back to 80% of full dose to try to stabilize it). Fell asleep around 11 but woke at 1:30 with fairly high anxiety and couldn't fall back. Out to the couch and fell asleep around 2:15 or 2:30. Woke again with more high anxiety, warmth and body pain especially in the chest around 4:30. Couldn't fall back after that so here I am typing. At this point i feel totally confused about where I am in the process of trying to stabilize. I had thought I was back on track, especially with last weekend having seen some real improvement, with sleep pretty decent for the most part and anxiety pretty much down. The return of the anxiety and some insomnia is disappointing. I'm generally feeling pretty crappy but wasn't feeling "acutely crappy." Now I have both. The only thing that has changed of significance is the Valerian cut I made Sunday night. Scary to think that a cut of 10% of Valerian is enough to destabilize me and throw me into a wave. I suppose it could be just the random windows and waves that occur. Not much choice but to try to keep things as consistent as possible and hope that this passes soon. Just airing some frustrations and keeping my journal current. Another day of wishing for some level of normalcy. Best, Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 26, 2016 Looking for anyone's input on the following: As those who have read this thread know, I've continued to struggle of late and have looked at things like Valerian, etc. One thing I never realized is the effect of Calcium Channel Blockers on this process. I was a cluster headache sufferer for many years (a hell of incredible magnitude) until a doctor suggested we try Verapamil (a CCB) as a preventative for the headaches. I took 480mg (240/AM and 240/PM) for years and I never thought of them as being "for anything" other than headaches. Of course, the reality is they are primary for blood pressure and apparently are significant in the brain chemistry space as well. At some point in the last year or so, in my interest to get off of all meds, I stopped the Verapamil and the headaches came back so I restarted and they went away. I was able to reduce it to once at night without losing the effect on the headaches but now I am wondering if this might be playing a role in the withdrawal I am experiencing. Anyone have any knowledge in this area that can shed some light? I've done a little research and will do some more and I know that David Healy suggests using CCBs in withdrawal, but figured others might have been down this path before. Thanks, Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Shep Posted May 26, 2016 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 26, 2016 Sorry to hear you are still struggling with sleep. It's possible the Verapamil is at play here. I don't have any personal experience with it, so I hope more experienced people will stop by. I do remember reading about it on the Rxisk.org site: The best known calcium channel blocker is verapamil. This has been used successfully in some withdrawal cases but it may just postpone withdrawal until verapamil is stopped. If so, the quality of life on verapamil is better than on an SSRI. http://rxisk.org/guide-stopping-antidepressants/ The comment that it may "postpone" withdrawal is concerning. When was the last time you reduced it? Sorry, I'm a bit confused if it was just the one time last year? Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus apace41 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted May 26, 2016 When was the last time you reduced it? Sorry, I'm a bit confused if it was just the one time last year? I've been on it for most of the time (if not all) that I was on the SSRI which (at least in my mind) makes it less likely that it was "cushioning" the withdrawal as compared to those, as Healy suggests, who add it as a means of reducing symptoms. Somewhere around a year or 18 months at most ago I got off it, had a recurrence of the headaches, and got back on it pretty soon thereafter. At around the same time I decided to see how I did on one pill at night rather than one in the morning and one at night and it has been fine from a headache perspective. Pretty confident that I have not changed the dosage in the past 9-12 months. Appreciate your thoughts. Andy Sertraline 50mg and Clonazapam .375mg from 2000 -- symptoms of dizziness Spring 2012 increased to .5 Clonazapam and 100mg Sertraline -- no improvement Benzo microtaper from November 2012 to November 2014 (followed benzo sites "taper benzo first") Started Sertraline taper in December 2014 cut by 25mg to 75mg; 62.5mg 1/1/15 and 50mg on 2/1/15 Held at 50mg through April 5 to use liquid Reduced dosage in 10% or less drops from 50mg to 25mg -- at single tablet of 25mg on 10/5/15 Transitioned to all liquid for accuracy while tapering -- Horrible insomnia -- back to 25mg liquid and held until October 1, 2016 10/16 -- 11/18 tapered very slowly to 10.6mg. No real improvement and never really stable so updosed to 12.5mg (1/2 a pill) for convenience and long hold. After 8+ months of holding with no noticeable improvement decided to add .4ml of liquid Prozac (about 1.5mg) to see if that improves the situation Supplements, Magnesium, D3, Omega 3, curcumin, Valerian, 81mg Aspirin, L-Theanine, Vit. C, Link to comment
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