Roxyrich: adverse reaction to prozac

[Roxyrich]

I wonder if stopping the propranolol too soon is the cause of this, would reinstatement be possible or could it hurt me.

Has anyone had experience of beta blockers causing waves. 

[Colonial]

If you able, can you give us your propranol taper schedule?  You may have gone off it too fast.  It says you went down by 10%, but if you went 10% of your original dose and not smaller cuts towards the end that might be the issue. That's what happened with me and the xanax.  I only had to re instate a tiny bit and it all stopped.  I reinstated a month out.

 

It may not be that, but if that's the only thing different over the past few months was stopping that completely , that might be your answer.  It doesn't seem to me to be a seasonal affective disorder reaction.

I don't know propranol that well but it's just suspicious your symptom-reaction was pretty much the same as mine.  I was fine all alone the xanax taper until I finally went off it COMPLETELY.   

 

If your able to give us a better idea of what your actual taper timeline was, and when your last dose was in relation to when this wave started, one of the mods could give you a better idea on if it's WD related to that med or a "window".  Then maybe we could work on a reinstatement suggestion (dose wise) if they think that's it and if you want to try.

[Roxyrich]

I started tapering propranolol in October 2016 and finished in April 2017 I was on 40 mg a day so it took around 6 to 7 months. 

I never thought they could cause any problems with them being blood pressure related. 

I guess I was wrong. 

This current wave started at the beginning of September. 

[Colonial]

You had posted a few days back:  "The only thing I can maybe think of, is i finished tapering propranolol one month earlier, but had no symptoms while I was tapering. "

 

And you also posted that you seemed to be "mostly" ok until May 2017.

 

I originally thought you meant that you stopped the propranolol one month earlier from your major flare up in September but it does seem you did start to have symptoms early in May right after the end of the taper, even though your saying your bad wave is starting recently.  But September is also the time our brains begin to "hibernate" for the winter.  For some people they get Seasonal affective disorder, but for people in WD, it alone can be enough to start a "wave" as your brain is making changes that our brains have trouble processing.  Whether it a seasonal induced wave, or one in conjunction with finishing the propranolol too fast (after 3 months of stopping )I personally couldn't say, but I do know that this time of the year my symptoms are worse even if I don't make that big of a med change.

 

Maybe a mod will have a better idea how far out after finishing that med it could cause a problem.  I would hate to see you reinstate if you've been off it this long, I thought you only stopped in August.

 

It was a really fast taper though, only 6 months to come off 40mgs.  

 

[Roxyrich]

Yeah, I'm sorry I wasn't clear. 

In may I didn't know it was a wave, because it was different from previous waves.

It was like my brain turned around inside my head, followed by a panic attack. 

Then a really nasty headache for a couple of days. 

But then for about a month I again had no problems, then it hit me every couple of weeks. it was really manageable, I was working, but when I got hit with this wave in September, it was like the first weeks allover again. 

Barely managing today, so scared again. 

[Colonial]

No need to apologize, friend.  The whole reason we are here is because we are usually at our worst and can't even think.  Hopefully a moderator may have some suggestions if as whether reinstating even a tiny bit may be a possibility or if this is a seasonal induced wave you just need to ride out. 

[Roxyrich]

Managed to get some sleep last night, but woke this morning in panic. 

Head feels agitated, but is slightly better than the fatigue I had yesterday. 

Is it possible that I've gone back to square one, and re destabilised my cns.

[Roxyrich]

I can't do this again. 

[Colonial]

Courage, Brother..

Waves always make us panic into thinking we are back to square one..

They do subside quicker than the original CNS crash..

It's just always hard when we are in them to know how long they will last..

 

[Colonial]

I've sent out a personal message to the staff..

Hopefully one of the mods can come and share some thoughts soon..

 

Make sure your caffeine an sugar intake is at a minimum right now as well.

[Roxyrich]

Thanks again colonial. 

[Altostrata]

Hello, Roxy.

 

Have you taken any drugs in the last several months, such as an antibiotic?

 

Are these symptoms similar to those you have before stopping propranolol?

[ChessieCat]

The fact that you experienced some improvement is a really good sign.  Healing isn't linear.  The following might help you to understand and accept that the brain is busy trying to heal.

 

From:  What is Happening in Your Brain

 

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are [...] to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were [...] to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and [...] to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while [...] is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made. 

[Colonial]

Alto's concern about the anti biotic was my first thought back on the 28th.  Especially ANYTHING in the Flouroquinolone (Quinolones) family:

 

 (Cipro,Levaquin, Floxin, Avelox, Tequin, Noroxin, Maxaquin, Trovan, Raxar, Zagam, Ciloxin, Quixin, Ocuflox, Penetrex, Chibroxin, Cinoxin, Vigamox, and Factive, just to name a few).

 

And Chessie's quote of :   The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.... "

 

That makes a lot of sense ESPECIALLY in September - October, when even people who are NOT in withdrawal and dealing with brain chemistry changes and Seasonal affective disorder.

 

I'm really hoping this is just a temporary "seasonal induced" wave...

 

[Roxyrich]

Thanks for your input guy's. 

I haven't taken antibiotics, for about 10 year's. 

Before I tapered propranolol, I was only having minor symptoms, this is off the charts. 

Minimal sleep, with massive cortisol waking. So bad that my biceps hurt. 

In the daytime either agitation or fatigue. 

I've blacked out my bedroom, but I wake up feeling drugged , then the transition from dark to light is like a fire inside me.

Every day seems worse than the last.

I'm really scared . 

Oh , and no definitely no drugs or alcohol, or caffeine. 

[Roxyrich]

Does anyone think that a quarter of a 10 mil propranolol might help or would it go bad after 6 months off them.

I had no problems taking them at the start of this but I would hate to make myself worse with some type of kindling effect. 

[Roxyrich]

I don't know why but it's the second time I've given up on blackout blinds. 

Just like last time it seems to increase my cortisol. I wake up feeling drugged, then bam , Massive fear and body tingling. None of my symptoms make sense.

Why is fear strong in the evening? .

[ChessieCat]

12 hours ago, Roxyrich said:

Does anyone think that a quarter of a 10 mil propranolol might help or would it go bad after 6 months off them.

I had no problems taking them at the start of this but I would hate to make myself worse with some type of kindling effect. 

 

Just because something worked previously doesn't mean that it will work the same way next time.  If you are no longer taking Propranolol, please update your signature with this information and the date when you stopped.  We need your signature to be current so we can see your history at a glance without having to read back through your posts.  Thank you.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Getting off psychiatric drugs, even with a slow and careful taper, can produce uncomfortable and distressing withdrawal symptoms.  SA encourages members to use non drug techniques to get through these instead.  Time and patience, as well as keeping ourselves as calm and stress free as possible, are the things which will allow our brains to heal.  Adding a drug will probably extend the time it takes to heal and may cause things to worsen.  Non-drug techniques

[Roxyrich]

Ok I'm pretty much done with all this.I'll update my signature tomorrow. 

Thanks for the reply. 

[ChessieCat]

37 minutes ago, Roxyrich said:

Ok I'm pretty much done with all this.

 

Just wondering what you mean by this comment.  Could you please elaborate?  Thanks.

[Roxyrich]

I'm in so much pain, I can't see a way I can make it.

I know it sounds bad but my life now consists of panic all night and pain all day. 

And every day seems worse than the last. 

I'm grateful for the advice chessie but I'm hurting and there's no relief. 

[Roxyrich]

I'm sorry, I tried to update my signature. 

Don't know if it's worked.

If it helps, the only thing different from my original signature, is I tapered propranolol , finishing in April this year. 

I'm currently taking nothing. 

[ChessieCat]

It doesn't seem like your signature has updated.  You need to make sure that you save it after changing it.

[bheb]

So sorry you're still suffering badly rich. Do you know why your doctor specifically chose propranolol for the anxiety? I took it for akathisia (which often appears anxiety-like) to settle my restlessness and personally had no trouble stopping it. I'm not sure what the consensus is about propranolol wd, but I suppose it's always possible that your body may be adjusting. You also may be experiencing symptoms that were simply masked by the propranolol.

 

 

[Roxyrich]

I had no problem stopping propranolol either, I'm not even sure it caused this.

I just can't understand why this wave would be worse than the initial adverse reaction. 

I'm so ill I need peace. 

[Roxyrich]

How do I update my signature. I'm only on my phone. 

 

[Roxyrich]

Just speculating on my current condition. 

In may I was living my life, it wasn't always great, I had down days , where depression lingered , but I knew I'd feel ok soon. And I did.

Then a dizzy spell started me down this road.

I was still working and doing ok.

When I had my second dizzy spell I knew deep down where it was heading. 

The attacks got closer together and when I got bad in September , the windows were getting shorter and the more I think about it, I was heading for total non stop wave. 

In this time I've not had any strange foods, or drink .

No supplements, alcohol or caffeine. 

So my question is, why ?when people 

Constantly report waves getting shorter and more manageable, it doesn't make sense. 

Current symptoms, 

Head pressure 

Massive agitation

Constant suicidal ideation 

Massive hunger 

Almost total insomnia, maybe 2hrs.

If agitation subsides turns into unbearable fatigue. 

I'm struggling to find anyone else who hasn't got incrementally better, even by a tiny amount. 

Please feel free to tell me I'm wrong. 

Just living minute to minute, so sorry for my rant.

 

 

 

[bheb]

I don't think you can update a signature on your phone. Also, I feel you. I was functional after my initial adverse reaction but now I'm hitting a wave that is way worse and way different than my initial symptoms. It's hard to make sense of. Especially when I haven't changed my meds

[Roxyrich]

To be honest, my signature hasn't changed. only now I'm not taking any thing.

It's just so hard. even at my lowest ebb , I got the odd day here and there but now, it's constant. 

[Colonial]

It could just be as simple as the time of the year.  For 3 years straight my symptoms are worse in Autumn.  Wish I could think of something more scientific to say..  

 

But Bheb has a point, the proponal "may" have been helping to "mask" these symptoms all along, so you now may just be having the waves associated with the original reaction to the prozac. 

[Colonial]

3 hours ago, bheb said:

I'm hitting a wave that is way worse and way different than my initial symptoms.

So, that's 3 of us right now, Rich..

I'm the worst I've been, right now, this calendar year. 

Even though I've never had "seasonal affective disorder" per se,  again, it makes sense that we would be worse this time of year when EVERYONE'S brains are making "hibernation like" changes to begin with.  Our brains are already trying to heal and this time of year is a tipping point.

 

http://www.shape.com/lifestyle/mind-and-body/your-brain-autumn

 

[Roxyrich]

Thanks for the reply guy's. 

I'm not doing well at all today

It's kicking the life out of me.

[bheb]

I've been contemplating that possibility too Colonial. Do you usually start to feel better towards the end of winter?

 

Sorry again rich. We're here with you...suffering inexplicable setbacks.  

[Colonial]

16 minutes ago, bheb said:

Do you usually start to feel better towards the end of winter?

 

Actually, I am better as soon (literally a week) as the time the air temp I am breathing into my lungs is very crisp or below freezing.  Once I'm inhaling really cold air, I bounce back to normal almost immediately.  So once I get to, usually mid November, I'm fine.  It's like the cold air triggers some kinda reaction in my brain and I'm "cured" in a week.  So, I start earlier than most (end July-early August) but it's over by November for me.  For me I think it's more neurological, but it really kicks the WD symptoms back into gear.

 

I noticed the change early this year, July 27th, to be exact.

 

Each morning from July 27th to August 10th I woke up "feeling" like I was in mid October.  The symptoms started picking up Sept 10th, and I've been really bad the past 3 days, nausea, dizzy, paxil flu muscles, smelling colors and tasting numbers, items seem to have a "sex' assigned to them, ( the toaster is male but the lamp is female) , very thirsty, brain zaps, problems with depth perception, trouble reading ( the letters are upside down at times or missing from the words).

 

Today I woke up anxious, and if I remember right, I can look forward to being suicidal by Tuesday.

 

 

 

 

[bheb]

3 minutes ago, Colonial said:

Today I woke up anxious, and if I remember right, I can look forward to being suicidal by Tuesday

Do you mean you also have a weekly cycle as well of symptoms?

 

But wow, great that you can discern a pattern (even a terrible terrible pattern of symptoms like those). Hopefully this means you'll be getting some relief in the next month.

[Colonial]

1 minute ago, bheb said:

Do you mean you also have a weekly cycle as well of symptoms?

 

I just meant that I remember it affecting me physically and neurologically first, and the anxiety and mood symptoms kicking in towards day 5-6 or the wave.

 

So now, I have to keep an eye on the weather channel, and FORCE myself to go outside when the air is cold at night.  Kinda kick start me into getting out of this.

 

Ironically, I notice the "cold air" pattern is what induces my dog to "shed out" her summer coat and start growing in her winter one as well.  The week She is exposed to more cold air, within a week She's shedding the summer coat out.  Interesting, huh?