JesusSavemefromWD: only 3.5 weeks sertraline enough to destroy me

[JesusSavemefromWD]

1 hour ago, john856 said:

That was a very interesting read on rapid metabolizers. Gosh our brains and bodies are so complex. I really do agree that these drugs are like playing Russian roulette. It's insane how these drugs are given out so easily without any effective way to know how they'll react in most people first. There's so much we don't know and so much research to be done. It's simply mind boggling how these drugs are so easily prescribed.

 

How would I know if I'm possibly a rapid metabolizer? Is this something that could only be known by doing a lab test? I appreciate this type of info, thank you!

Another thing I wanted to say and forgot …. Our bodies are not that complex, we have pretty much figured out completely how our organs work , EXCEPT from our brain which is very complicated and we don’t know more than maybe 10-20% of how it functions. That’s why it is absolutely stupid, misleading and even unethical for doctors to say “some people need ADs for life time as diabetics need insulin” It makes me furious to hear that oversimplification…. There is a test to prove if someone needs inslulin, and we know exactly what insulin does and it’s not Russian Roulette. We have NO test to show that serotonin levels are not right in our brain and we have no idea how it will turn out if we increase our brain serotonin levels . Just check out the leaflet of insulin and leaflet of ADs , do the site effects seem as dangerous in both case? Nope…. And finally, serotonin is not only produced in the brain, so by taking ADs we interfere with both brain and gut function. Bottom line, there is no comparison between insulin needed by diabetics and ADs. The first one saves lives, the second ones are blindly prescribed and might cost your life …. 

[kostakonkordia]

2 hours ago, JesusSavemefromWD said:

ultra rapid metabolizers as well as slow metabolizers (two extreme ends) are in high danger for adverse reactions. The vast of doctors only know that slow metabolizers are at risk but so are ultra rapid and rapid. Yes this involves the cytochromes involved in breaking down these drugs and it can be found only by a genetic test. The rapid metabolism is only one reason of people getting adverse reactions, there are many others as well, which can also be revealed by a genetic test. In my case it seemed there were three genetic polymorphisms that contributed to this severe suffering from just a low short term use of Zoloft. It would be to complicated to explain here. But there are four points that need to be clarified here

 

1. Genetics “don’t lie” I mean an individual either has or doesn’t have the genetic polymorphism for rapid metabolizing. However the interpretation of genetics is another story, and can be really misleading, for example most doctor and some genetic companies believe that a rapid metabolizer just needs higher doses of the drug, while few doctors and genetic companies who really know their sh it, believe that rapid metabolizers are prone to adverse reactions. I am a living prof of that. Doesn’t mean all rapid metabolizers will have issues with the drug that they metabolize fast but it is very likely they will. So genetics don’t lie , the interpretation of genetics can be false and dangerous 

2. there might be more than one genetic polymorphisms contributing to adverse reactions, in my case as I said there where three

3. We all have genetic polymorphisms, that’s what make people different, these are NORMAL variations in our DNA that make us unique. They are not mutations that cause a disease. I am noting this cause I am sick and tired of some stupid doctors telling me “wow you had an underlying issue that caused this adverse reaction”. No, if I had never taken this poison these polymorphisms would have never cause me any problems (me and other rapid metabolizers).

4. Even people who have genetic reports not indicating any polymorphisms that might make them prone to adverse reactions, might still suffer from these drugs for other unidentified reasons because we simply don’t know a lot on how these drugs affect the brain . The enzymes metabolizing these drugs are outside the brain , and only give us indications of how these drugs are metabolized by our body, but how the drug will affect after reaching the brain is another unpredictable story. 
Bottom line these drugs are Russian roulette for your brain and should be avoided unless there are serious mental issues. 
i have had few members reaching out to me asking for this rapid metabolizer issue, maybe the administrators here would consider somehow highlighting this post 

 

Thank you for youre answers Jesus!

[kostakonkordia]

10 minutes ago, JesusSavemefromWD said:

Another thing I wanted to say and forgot …. Our bodies are not that complex, we have pretty much figured out completely how our organs work , EXCEPT from our brain which is very complicated and we don’t know more than maybe 10-20% of how it functions. That’s why it is absolutely stupid, misleading and even unethical for doctors to say “some people need ADs for life time as diabetics need insulin” It makes me furious to hear that oversimplification…. There is a test to prove if someone needs inslulin, and we know exactly what insulin does and it’s not Russian Roulette. We have NO test to show that serotonin levels are not right in our brain and we have no idea how it will turn out if we increase our brain serotonin levels . Just check out the leaflet of insulin and leaflet of ADs , do the site effects seem as dangerous in both case? Nope…. And finally, serotonin is not only produced in the brain, so by taking ADs we interfere with both brain and gut function. Bottom line, there is no comparison between insulin needed by diabetics and ADs. The first one saves lives, the second ones are blindly prescribed and might cost your life …. 

Don't forget the immune system and the microbioms. They are also not very well understood. 

Yes it's a shame we have figured out so much but the knowledge just sits around and doctors don't care mostly. 

[kostakonkordia]

1 hour ago, john856 said:

That was a very interesting read on rapid metabolizers. Gosh our brains and bodies are so complex. I really do agree that these drugs are like playing Russian roulette. It's insane how these drugs are given out so easily without any effective way to know how they'll react in most people first. There's so much we don't know and so much research to be done. It's simply mind boggling how these drugs are so easily prescribed.

 

How would I know if I'm possibly a rapid metabolizer? Is this something that could only be known by doing a lab test? I appreciate this type of info, thank you!

I think it would be ok but you can only figure out the genotype. It's not saying anything about the active cytochrome amount in youre liver. 

I read you can measure this by taking a compound which gets metabolized by these enzymes and the amount of the metabolite you find the the urine indicates the activity of these enzymes. 

But i have to read a bit more about this to be sure. 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

24 minutes ago, kostakonkordia said:

Thank you for youre answers Jesus!

You are welcome. I wish I could offer some knowledge that could alleviate people suffering from these drugs but I can’t …. Maybe if I recover and get back on research…. Maybe…. 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

18 minutes ago, kostakonkordia said:

I think it would be ok but you can only figure out the genotype. It's not saying anything about the active cytochrome amount in youre liver. 

I read you can measure this by taking a compound which gets metabolized by these enzymes and the amount of the metabolite you find the the urine indicates the activity of these enzymes. 

But i have to read a bit more about this to be sure. 

Yes only a genetic test can tell to this. These polymorphisms show if you have too much or too active enzymes which means you are a rapid metabolizer. The test you mention would probably just verify if he genetics predict the correct function but be aware that the results of the test you mention will depend on the compound used to run the test. 

[john856]

1 hour ago, JesusSavemefromWD said:

2. As a scientist, i wanted to figure out what the hell happened to me and use these info in a scientific publication that i plan on putting together if I ever recover. 

 

The world needs more scientists like you that can provide better research on the effects of these drugs on the brain. I pray for your speedy recovery. It's so sad there's almost no research yet doctors are blindly prescribing these drugs based on trial and error.

[JesusSavemefromWD]

2 minutes ago, john856 said:

 

The world needs more scientists like you that can provide better research on the effects of these drugs on the brain. I pray for your speedy recovery. It's so sad there's almost no research yet doctors are blindly prescribing these drugs based on trial and error.

The problem is most research on ADs is either done by pharmaceutical companies or sponsored. The government needs to realize that there is tremendous need for directing funding towards INDEPENDENT and ETHICAL scientists to do the research on these drugs. It blows my mind that these drugs are considered safe ….. for me these drugs should be like chemotherapy…., I mean you prescribe chemotherapy only to someone who has a serious illness (cancer) and both the doctor and patient are aware of possible side effects. You don’t prescribe chemotherapy for headaches or unexplained pains right? Same with ADs and APs only for severe mental issues and after explaining the risks. 

[Avicii]

7 hours ago, john856 said:

That was a very interesting read on rapid metabolizers. Gosh our brains and bodies are so complex. I really do agree that these drugs are like playing Russian roulette. It's insane how these drugs are given out so easily without any effective way to know how they'll react in most people first. There's so much we don't know and so much research to be done. It's simply mind boggling how these drugs are so easily prescribed.

 

How would I know if I'm possibly a rapid metabolizer? Is this something that could only be known by doing a lab test? I appreciate this type of info, thank you!

Interesting! I have an extreme rapid metabolism, I pretty much can’t gain weight. If this is real, can I still heal? 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

2 minutes ago, Avicii said:

Interesting! I have an extreme rapid metabolism, I pretty much can’t gain weight. If this is real, can I still heal? 

Oh I think you have confused things a bit….. when we are taking about metabolizing ADs we refer to specific enzymes that our body use to break down these drugs . What you refer to is having a good or a bad metabolism in terms of food intake and gaining or not gaining weight is a totally different thing. 

[Avicii]

11 minutes ago, JesusSavemefromWD said:

Oh I think you have confused things a bit….. when we are taking about metabolizing ADs we refer to specific enzymes that our body use to break down these drugs . What you refer to is having a good or a bad metabolism in terms of food intake and gaining or not gaining weight is a totally different thing. 

Aaah sorry, language problems

[Greatful]

How are you doing? My heart goes out to you.....I know how hard can be.

The wait is the worst.....If we knew it would be X amount of time then we could maybe deal with it in a more accepting way....

 

I thought of you yesterday, I was having a bit of disturbing DR and mental akathesia then turned into  physical akathesia ....... I tried to go out for a long drive and lunch.....I was bouncing my leg and fidgeting at the restaurant........Couldn't wait for the food to come so I could try and eat and get out of there......(I've been fighting nausea and no appetite also)

My heart goes out to you, my goodness I was panicking and trying to connect to the world around me and you go through this everyday and sounds like at a much bigger scale...........  Oh the mess these drugs make of our brain.....

I enjoyed your talk about the genetics testing........It might explain some of my problems I am having.........I am ultrarapid metabolizer for Lexapro and Lamictal both of which I am on............It also says am also at risk for adverse effects to certain ssri's  

We tried to split the dosing to see if it was making my WD worse,  fluctuating in my body to much....... It might have made the WD symptoms more even throughout the day, which is not always good.....Then I am not seeing as many breaks in the evening........😒

Do you think that because of my ultrarapid metabolism can create a difference with the sert,  receptors being affected different. I guess what I am asking is-will my sert levels be different then someone who metabolizes it normal...I am hoping that it will be less troublesome for me at lower levels....... How much the metabolism could/would affect tapering.   I am at such low dose right now....just cut again today so at 3.4mg........I still have the WD garbage but my brain feels better every time I cut,  clearer and more connected..........Sometimes it feels like chemicals burning my brain...Also the brain sizzling, buzzing, burning, freezing, hurting is slowly getting less intense, but I am noticing I am having more real headaches.......

  Thank you for sharing your knowledge on this subject.......Anything else you can share would be greatly appreciated...

Hang in there😊  

Edited March 21, 2022 by Greatful

[JesusSavemefromWD]

6 hours ago, Greatful said:

How are you doing? My heart goes out to you.....I know how hard can be.

The wait is the worst.....If we knew it would be X amount of time then we could maybe deal with it in a more accepting way....

 

I thought of you yesterday, I was having a bit of disturbing DR and mental akathesia then turned into  physical akathesia ....... I tried to go out for a long drive and lunch.....I was bouncing my leg and fidgeting at the restaurant........Couldn't wait for the food to come so I could try and eat and get out of there......(I've been fighting nausea and no appetite also)

My heart goes out to you, my goodness I was panicking and trying to connect to the world around me and you go through this everyday and sounds like at a much bigger scale...........  Oh the mess these drugs make of our brain.....

I enjoyed your talk about the genetics testing........It might explain some of my problems I am having.........I am ultrarapid metabolizer for Lexapro and Lamictal both of which I am on............It also says am also at risk for adverse effects to certain ssri's  

We tried to split the dosing to see if it was making my WD worse,  fluctuating in my body to much....... It might have made the WD symptoms more even throughout the day, which is not always good.....Then I am not seeing as many breaks in the evening........😒

Do you think that because of my ultrarapid metabolism can create a difference with the sert,  receptors being affected different. I guess what I am asking is-will my sert levels be different then someone who metabolizes it normal...I am hoping that it will be less troublesome for me at lower levels....... How much the metabolism could/would affect tapering.   I am at such low dose right now....just cut again today so at 3.4mg........I still have the WD garbage but my brain feels better every time I cut,  clearer and more connected..........Sometimes it feels like chemicals burning my brain...Also the brain sizzling, buzzing, burning, freezing, hurting is slowly getting less intense, but I am noticing I am having more real headaches.......

  Thank you for sharing your knowledge on this subject.......Anything else you can share would be greatly appreciated...

Hang in there😊  

Dpdr 24/7 is just hell on earth….. I do t know how I am still alive 17 months into this torture….. I guess the minor improvements, my faith in God and my love for my kids keep me going. I ll reply about the ultra rapid metabolizer in your thread so you have it there….. 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

17 months off ….. dpdr, terror and Akathisia …. No let up…. Minor improvements with my vision …. Looks like my brain is trying to do smg to recalibrate but the dpdr is so debilitating that keeps me bedridden/housebound. I ve talk to some people with severe drug induced dpdr , one got out of it at 18 months (wouldn’t that be great? I would only have one more month to go…), another at 21 months (I would take that deadline as well….), other at 2.5 years, another at 3.5 years….. please pray for me … I don’t know how much longer I can live in this dpdr zombie like state….

[john856]

11 hours ago, JesusSavemefromWD said:

17 months off ….. dpdr, terror and Akathisia …. No let up…. Minor improvements with my vision …. Looks like my brain is trying to do smg to recalibrate but the dpdr is so debilitating that keeps me bedridden/housebound. I ve talk to some people with severe drug induced dpdr , one got out of it at 18 months (wouldn’t that be great? I would only have one more month to go…), another at 21 months (I would take that deadline as well….), other at 2.5 years, another at 3.5 years….. please pray for me … I don’t know how much longer I can live in this dpdr zombie like state….

 

It makes me sad that these drugs have caused so much pain and suffering for you. Please try not to be hard on yourself and compare yourself to others healing timelines/deadlines. I know it's tough to hear, but your body will heal on its own timeline.

 

Also stress can definitely mask the recognition of any new improvements or possible windows, so please be kind to yourself and remind yourself everyday to love yourself. This DPDR doesn't define you. You still hold the power over your identity and you can heal from this! I have nothing but good thoughts for you in your journey ❤️ 

[Alice1]

19 hours ago, JesusSavemefromWD said:

I don’t know how much longer I can live in this dpdr zombie like state….

 

 You'll be surprised..

[JesusSavemefromWD]

8 hours ago, john856 said:

 

It makes me sad that these drugs have caused so much pain and suffering for you. Please try not to be hard on yourself and compare yourself to others healing timelines/deadlines. I know it's tough to hear, but your body will heal on its own timeline.

 

Also stress can definitely mask the recognition of any new improvements or possible windows, so please be kind to yourself and remind yourself everyday to love yourself. This DPDR doesn't define you. You still hold the power over your identity and you can heal from this! I have nothing but good thoughts for you in your journey ❤️ 

🙏 thank you

i was glad to read in your thread you are doing better …. 
maybe one day I ll be able to share positive posts …. I can still hardly believe this is happening to me for so many months 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

As I approach 1 year and a half of the iatrogenic torture caused by 3.5 weeks of Zoloft and I see no signs of normal life returning, I decided I ll stop updating my thread. If smg miraculously changes for me I ll share the good news…. till then  I see no reason to share more bad and bad news …… you all take care and stay away from these neurotoxins 

[Kostas]

My best wishes J.

Will be glad to hear again from you soon ,with better news..

Xronia polla for the yesterday's Evangelismos   day,and hope to find you well and happy this day next year. 

Greetings to you and your nice family, and have a nice Greek orthodox Easter. 

Kostas 

 

[john856]

Take care and thank you for the updates @JesusSavemefromWD I wish you well on your recovery. I hope to hear back from you in the future with good news.

[Pollyjay]

Oh honey, I'll be praying for you!!!

[Marta]

@JesusSavemefromWD Can I ask you about the arms pain? I have it since one month no stop. To describe it it's like the pain from a vaxin in the biceps. Plus the shoulders and armpits. I tried several painkillers but nothing can touch this pain. Is it the same for you? Is it hard to sleep in the baseline plus this pain is terrible. Even a mild exercise makes it worse

[JesusSavemefromWD]

On 4/14/2022 at 6:29 AM, Marta said:

@JesusSavemefromWD Can I ask you about the arms pain? I have it since one month no stop. To describe it it's like the pain from a vaxin in the biceps. Plus the shoulders and armpits. I tried several painkillers but nothing can touch this pain. Is it the same for you? Is it hard to sleep in the baseline plus this pain is terrible. Even a mild exercise makes it worse

I had shoulder/arm pain (only right side) during months 8-10 of withdrawal that felt like i was recovering from broken shoulder while there was no real physical cause . It has subsided long now now but I cannot lift my right arm above my shoulder line , it doesn’t hurt but it kind of feels the arm- shoulder joint locks at the shoulder line and can’t lift my arm all the way up. It’s not a symptom that bothers me much… I am sorry you also have to suffer from these so called “therapeutic” drugs.

[Landis]

Hi! I see that you are still suffering terribly from the paradoxical reaction to sertraline, but I believe with every fiber of my being that you will heal in time, even though we all often think that recovery is impossible.
 

Frankly, I wanted to address you with one special question, because I remember that you were professionally involved in various aspects of the neurology of movement disorders. Please tell me, if you are, of course, informed about this, does any akathisia result from damage to the basal ganglia? In other words, is any akathisia an indicator of an organic brain defect? My question is not idle: after abruptly stopping the antipsychotic, I had something like akathisia, but my MRI scans do not contain anything abnormal, so I now wonder - this MRI is not very representative as a diagnostic study and I need to do, for example, PET, or still, in my case, one should not talk about an organic defect, but about a temporary functional deregulation...

[JesusSavemefromWD]

On 4/16/2022 at 10:51 PM, Landis said:

Hi! I see that you are still suffering terribly from the paradoxical reaction to sertraline, but I believe with every fiber of my being that you will heal in time, even though we all often think that recovery is impossible.
 

Frankly, I wanted to address you with one special question, because I remember that you were professionally involved in various aspects of the neurology of movement disorders. Please tell me, if you are, of course, informed about this, does any akathisia result from damage to the basal ganglia? In other words, is any akathisia an indicator of an organic brain defect? My question is not idle: after abruptly stopping the antipsychotic, I had something like akathisia, but my MRI scans do not contain anything abnormal, so I now wonder - this MRI is not very representative as a diagnostic study and I need to do, for example, PET, or still, in my case, one should not talk about an organic defect, but about a temporary functional deregulation...

Sorry for the late response but I don’t come in my thread often anymore as I have decided to stop updating after reaching 1.5 years of mental torture with no hints of recovery …. To answer ur question the main neurotransmitter in basal ganglia is dopamine and it is well established that disruption of the dopaminergic system of the basal ganglia leads to movement disorders like Parkinson’s disease or dystonia. In contrast to these diseases no one really knows how Akathisia develops but I doubt it has to do with the basal ganglia because you can get Akathisia with either antipsychotics which target many receptors, including dopaminergic ones, but you can also get Akathisia from ssris which mostly target serotonergic receptors and from benzos which strictly target GABAergic receptors. I don’t even think Akathisia should be seen as a movement disorder it s another level of hell resulting from ur brain going high wire …. Exactly how no one now’s but the damage seems to not be structural neither involving neuronal cell death (like Parkinson’s disease) but rather being deregulation of the neuronal network and that is why it seems to be reversible in most cases. As far as I know there is no medical test to detect Akathisia in the brain. Hope that answers ur questions , I tried to answer as simple as I could. I wish you a quick recovery 

[SelmaLady]

((((J)))) I have been following your posts and have felt so badly that this happened to you.  Now I am in the same place with tortuous brain dysfunction including intense DR/DP, physical and mental akathisia and deep fear.  I do want you to know that I have been praying for you continually and that I absolutely believe that you will recover.  I so know the horror of having intense DP as well as DR.  I'm finding it nearly impossible to distract.  Do you have anything that helps you to get through the day right now?  I try to watch silly TV shows but am finding that harder and harder )-:   We have to "soul cling" with Christ now and know that He experienced deep anguish and is constantly with us in our suffering.  I agree that having faith in Him and our families is what keeps us crawling through each minute. 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

On 4/20/2022 at 7:58 PM, SelmaLady said:

((((J)))) I have been following your posts and have felt so badly that this happened to you.  Now I am in the same place with tortuous brain dysfunction including intense DR/DP, physical and mental akathisia and deep fear.  I do want you to know that I have been praying for you continually and that I absolutely believe that you will recover.  I so know the horror of having intense DP as well as DR.  I'm finding it nearly impossible to distract.  Do you have anything that helps you to get through the day right now?  I try to watch silly TV shows but am finding that harder and harder )-:   We have to "soul cling" with Christ now and know that He experienced deep anguish and is constantly with us in our suffering.  I agree that having faith in Him and our families is what keeps us crawling through each minute. 

🙏… I am keeping you in my prayers as well…. Too sick to write more right now ….

[curiousnootropics]

How are you my friend?

[Shellbell]

@JesusSavemefromWD

 

 

please respond and let me know if you are ok

we are all worried

[mustafa]

Hello @JesusSavemefromWD, I hope you are fine. I think if you have DP as your main symptom like me. Let's check this together. I have noticed my brain behaviour for a very long time and I think I can give you advice on how to lower the suffer. 

Mustafa

[Oaktree1]

@JesusSavemefromWD

 

I know you don't come on here much anymore and that you made that decision not to unless things improve a bit for you but just posting to say that I am thinking of you and hope that you are ok..well not ok but alive and struggling even.

 

Oaktree1 🌸

[Jakob66]

@JesusSavemefromWDhow is it going for you? I've read your posts

[kostakonkordia]

https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/01/vitamin-b6-effective-reducing-antipsychotic-induced-akathisia/

 

[mustafa]

On 5/11/2022 at 4:35 PM, rebeccaannxo said:

@JesusSavemefromWD

 

Hope you’re doing okay! I’m another adverse reaction case and suffering miserably. Did you have any balance issues or body weakness issues? I’m housebound daily due to symptoms  

This is the same for me. I feel not balanced to go outside. Feel disconnected and it is like I can't see the road if Iam walking. It is like a prison and you can't dare go outside of it.

[weemie]

Hey neighbour 👋 I too have mental aka from an adverse reaction to sertraline back in December. I'm almost 7 months off of the pills so far. I also believe the aka and dp are intertwined, and have a lot to do with the overproduction of stress hormones.

 

habituation has been my friend with the dp/dr. for me, trying to resist the dp causes cortisol to ramp up. once I removed fear from the feeling, it stopped tormenting me. What I find helps when I'm super destabilized, is reminiscing, and getting a hold of familiar feelings from my past, allowing them to ground me. minimizing stress by staying off of online forums is probably the wisest thing to do! I hope you're okay. we can get through it once our serotonin system decides to regulate, and our cortisol levels are at bay. it can take a little while to get out of this paradoxical state but improvement could be just around the corner. I've read stories of people getting drastically better around the 2 year mark. I understand you've been struggling for longer than I, and patience can dwindle over time. I so hope that you're alright. 

 

I'm trying not to blame these feelings I'm having entirely on the pills. The power of placebo on the mind is incredibly effective. If we tell ourselves that we've been ruined by pills, recovery will be much slower and more stressful. Yesterday, by thinking the contrary, I had an hour long window. for the first time in a while I wasn't living second by second, but in swaths of time. I could actually sort of relax and feel time flowing by. I try to ignore others timelines cause each experience is personal and we don't know how others are curating their healing experience. we all have time on our side. I'm sending you so much love from Nova Scotia.

 

[FeralCatman]

Just wanted to let you know that me and my kitty crew have been thinking of you. 😉✌️😻😻😻😻