Ariel: protracted withdrawal and PAWS

[Ariel]

@Oaktree1

P.S. (as I can no longer go back and edit my post)

I am remiss to have left out how sorry I feel that you are intimately familiar with such experiences of social rejection. 

 

2 hours ago, Oaktree1 said:

And I do think that if people are sad or withdrawn or 'temperamental' be that because of withdrawal or past trauma - a lot of people walk away - because they have their own s*** to deal with and don't want to deal with anyone elses.  I saw my entire friend circle dwindle away when I went through the psychiatric system in my 20's.  I never felt the same about people after that to be honest. 

 

I'm very sorry you have gone through this. It must have felt like such a disappointment and maybe betrayal? I understand that such experiences can be formative and traumatic and it can be hard to continue on as before. Especially when one is left to make do with one's family of origin, with that family being challenging in its own right. I'm sorry, dear Oaktree. My heart goes out to you.

 

There's nothing I can say to make it better, although I do want to emphasize that it's not your fault. None of this has happened because you "deserved" it; not that you seem to believe so, but still, I cannot stress enough that it's not because you did something wrong and were bad and thus merited such treatment. I hew to the view that there's no free will, not really, and the order of things (which we may not consciously perceive as order) is largely a matter of dumb luck one way or another. When the conditions are present for X to happen, X happens. It's all just circumstance and stimulus and response and conditioning, all just oscillating and weaving in and out of us. We think we are doing the living and the breathing but we are being lived and breathed. Our brains are wired to make meaning and spin stories and we create narratives of cause and effect, dramaturgical tidying, as a defense against the sublime truth that we are not in control. 

 

And yet, there are tools at our disposal, non-drug coping techniques and the lot, which we can amuse ourselves with and which can help lend us a sense of agency throughout our often insufferable conscious existence. I have to believe that our isolation and social situations and our spirits will improve eventually. I have to believe that in order to keep going, and I must keep going. Sorry to get maudlin, haha! It's one of those days (probably exacerbated by the lack of sleep), I've been feeling distraught, fraught, overwhelmed, and overwrought. You know the drill. 

 

Thank you for helping making the unbearable feel more bearable. You have helped me greatly today. 

 

[Ariel]

So glad the day's almost over. It's been a rough one, inside and out.

 

The weather is getting so warm and summery, I want nothing to do with all that heat and light (such an old grump these days, I have to laugh). Too hot to stay inside, too bright to go out. I'm working on ways to mitigate this. It's unacceptable to hole up in my oppressive flat for the next months, no good can come of that. 

 

Thank you, thank you Oaktree for providing shade and shelter.

(Not tagging so as not to overwhelm; I trust you will see this eventually. Btw please know that there is no obligation ever to post or reply to what I've written. Sometimes I can go on and on writing for hours and it helps me as a distraction; I would hate for it to feel like a burden on the receiving end. Please take care of your precious self first and foremost (let's support each other in practicing those boundaries). Is it taxing to be tagged? If so I can refrain.)

 

This evening I watched "Roman Holiday" for the millionth time and it was somewhat soothing. 

 

Another day down, X to go. 

 

I wish everyone peace, healing, and a gentle night <3

[Ninabird]

@Ariel I am sorry you are having a tough day. 

I wish I had the right words to help you through this patch. Just know that this is temporary and you will get through it. Another day down and closer to the light. 

Ariel, you must know that you bring so so much joy and love to so many of us on this site. You treat each and every one of us as though we were your first. You never get frustrated or treat us like we are frustrating you. You are a gem. We all adore you. You have so many cheering you on and sending you love. 

I pray you sleep soundly and have the most beautiful dreams. 

With much respect and care,

Ninabird

[Guest]

Hi Ariel,

 

i read you are over a year out.

 

are you better now? 
 

can I ask for what did you take AP?

[wantrelief]

Hello dear Ariel:

 

I am really sorry it has been a rough day for you.  You did it though, you got through it and should be proud of yourself for that - as you said another day down.

 

3 hours ago, Ariel said:

The weather is getting so warm and summery, I want nothing to do with all that heat and light (such an old grump these days, I have to laugh). 

Ugh, I know what you mean.  I want nothing to do with that either and feel like an old grump too! 🙂 This time of year is the hardest for me....everyone is always so happy here with the warmer sunnier weather whereas it makes me feel even weirder for being inside so much.

 

Wishing you much better days ahead and hopefully soon.

 

Thinking of you - WR

 

 

[Onmyway]

Ariel,

I was sort of off for a few days, checking mostly urgent things and so am a bit behind and just got a chance to read the various posts. Thank you for the wonderful and thoughtful posts, for the depth with which you are expressing your and the human experience so well. You have created such a lovely mini-community on this forum - a group of kindred spirits that doesn't need an alpha but has such a caring and wonderful leader in you. Thank you for that! 

 

I will respond to a few things but my quote function is not working very well so I can't reference the parts I am answering to very well. 

 

I am sorry that you had that experience with the friend group. Something similar happened to me in a work environment unfortunately. It was an attack that came out of nowhere and I am still not sure how that came, and even though there was no alpha, I chose to leave the group because in that case the other person had no other friends and I generally make friends easily. He left the group eventually as well and so I could go back but in the meantime I saw it as an opportunity to make more new friends and have found kindred souls - there are so many interesting people in the world (apologies to all introverts who can't relate). This is not to say that we should not invest in friendships and try to repair. I was often guilty of just moving on from difficult situations and am learning to deal with them better and so admire you for bringing this up both with the ex-friend and the person from the group that you met. Attempting repair is admirable. I managed to forgive a friend recently because the friendship was more important than the specific situation where they wronged me (and apologized for). We all make mistakes. I have made plenty myself. But I also do believe that certain friendships/relationships exhaust themselves or become toxic and/or we outgrow them and it's time to move on. 

 

I have discovered that these conflicts happen to virtually everyone - everyone has experienced social rejection. There is research showing that social rejection turns on/off genes and can be as damaging as real illness. And I think some of us are more sensitive to these rejections. Especially in women's circle, these things are part and parcel of life from when we are in kindergarten. In fact many women wield violence in verbal/emotional form and a lot of it is through exclusion (queen bee etc.). That's why it is so difficult to be a middle school girl.  Men tend to use physical means and once it's out of their system can be best friends again. The problem is that social exclusion wakes up lots of memories of shame and other, earlier exclusion and that shame is the part that can make us retreat into ourselves. "If Karen doesn't like me, then other people must think that I am awful as well, I will go and hide to avoid further shaming and exclusion." The thing though is that this does happen to everybody and so we are not different for experiencing it and should definitely not be ashamed or feel different for it. And the fact that Karen doesn't like us does not, in fact, change other people's opinions, though if they are scared of Karen they might behave as if it does even if they secretly think otherwise. Most people are not brave enough to stand up to a bully who doesn't bully them specifically. 

 

It is interesting that you talk about feeling like the child that yelled 'the emperor has no clothes'. Have you ever read things on narcissistic/dysfunctional families and the various roles that children take on - one of the roles is the scapegoat (there is also the golden child and some other variations). You may have been the scapegoat child in a family if that sounds like a familiar trope. It's uncanny how accurately such a model describes many families that I know. Unfortunately the term narcissist (like the term OCD) has been overused but the dynamics are very interesting to observe and recognize. Here is some info on the scapegoat. I learned this only last year and it was quite a revelation. 8 Types of Narcissistic Family Scapegoat - (narcissistfamilyfiles.com)

 

On IFS... the part of it that I like is that it allows for people to have so many layers to them and not judge themselves (and others) based on one behavior or shortcoming or vulnerability. We contain multitudes as Walt Whitman noticed. That way you can think of those vulnerable parts within yourself with compassion even if it would be hard to show compassion to your whole person. A compassion for the part that is lonely or the part that is angry and understanding of the feelings given the situation can soften you enough to short circuit an emotional spiral. One doesn't need to do the proper steps of unburdening etc. in IFS to get some respite. 

 

Sending you lots of hugs, 

OMW

[Mdawg]

16 hours ago, Ariel said:

Barely slept last night. Managed two shifts, one from about 12:30am till 2am, then again from 5-6am or so. This morning feeling dizzy, woozy. 

 

First shift included nightmares of being stalked and threatened by a (human-form) villain named Escitalopram (!). Ridiculous, but while dreaming it felt very real and scary.

 

Second shift nightmare related to a particularly painful friend break-up. This friend, whom I once considered to be among my closest, dumped me four years ago. WD brain makes it feel like yesterday and routinely serves me nightmares about this person. They still live in my neighborhood. I try not to think about it, but the nightmares remind me. When I don't have the nightmares it's not on my mind as much (obviously). 

 

One of the things that made the experience of this friend dumping me so intense and impactful is that we were in a friend group together. She was/is the alpha. We had a friendship independently of the group, too; and she was the one from the group I saw most often just the two of us. She didn't have kids, maybe my only friend that didn't, which made it special as well. It was an important friendship in my life, as was the friend group. I didn't see the break-up coming. There were issues along the way and friction once in a while, we were very different, but it was within normal range (as far as what I was used to). It was by no means a perfect relationship but I completely didn't expect the total cutting off of contact from one day to the next (holding space for her experience; I experienced the change as sudden but of course it may have been growing within her for a long time). We'd been close friends for almost 15 years at that point. And I'm not imagining the closeness, she'd explicitly told me as much herself on numerous occasions. 

 

All at once I lost her and the friend group that had existed for an equally long time. I mean, I didn't officially lose the friend group, but because she's the alpha it was clear that they would never meet without her. I tried talking with her about it after the dump, just to try to negotiate whether we could maybe alternate participating in group hangs now that she no longer wanted to see me or have anything to do with me (it was worth a shot to work out a sort of custody arrangement). She was just like, "I don't care if you're there, whatever," and did not cede or compromise. Well I did (and do) care if she's there when we meet as a group; especially because the group dynamic revolves around her (for better and for worse); I have the lowest social status in the group so my time with them has always been somewhat fraught and tenuous anyway (not enough to make it unpleasant, I love them very much, but the tension is just there). She severed ties with me and said some pretty mean things while she was at it, judging me harshly and even mocking me, and I really want nothing to do with her anymore. I don't feel safe at all and don't want to expose myself to unkindness or ridicule or condescension or pity. 

 

In May I ran into one of the guys from the group. It was so nice to see his face, I hadn't seen him for about four and a half years (the break-up with alpha was a little over four years ago). We spent about half an hour chatting and catching up, I really enjoyed our interaction. Towards the end I asked him whether they still met up regularly as a group. I could see the question made him uncomfortable. I know that it's not considered socially polite to confront such things but I can't stand it when everyone's pretending that things are normal when they're not. I wasn't angry or upset about it, I asked in a very even, calm way. I just said point blank that I was wondering because I no longer heard from anyone anymore and hadn't been invited to anything for ages (pandemic notwithstanding), received no group messages, and didn't get responses when I reached out to people individually. So I had a hunch they were meeting up and I was just off the contact list. Credit goes to him for being honest, he said they do meet up once in a while. He didn't say anything about why I'm no longer welcome (this is a small group, by the way; there were six of us, incl. me, now there are five of them; just to say it's not like one can blend in and blend out entirely unnoticed).

 

I told him that I'd love to see everyone and it would be great to meet up, that it just has to be the five of us without alpha since she cut off ties with me. He got more and more uncomfortable, it was kind of funny. Again, I know that my being open about the situation with her is not considered socially acceptable, I know I'm supposed to just pretend like everything's fine and normal and yeah, sure, see you around; but I hate games like that. Why? Why are people so socially afraid and insecure that they have to tiptoe around the facts of things when the facts are clearly in play? It's bullsh*t. The fact of the matter is she dumped me and cut ties, and we all know each other, and I miss the group but don't want to see her and thereby subject myself to being a) ignored by her all evening; b) treated with fake friendliness (or worse, such as passive-aggressive barbs) by her when she's made it clear how little she actually thinks of me, especially since she's the alpha and sets the tone, and if she makes a joke at someone else's expense, chances are the group laughs and follows suit. Of course I didn't go into my feelings about it, I'm not in middle school gossiping, and I wasn't asking for his involvement in the situation; nor am I judging her (she has every right to cut me off and do what's right for her in her life; I don't presume to know what she was going through). I just think it's perfectly fair to lay out how things are and suggest a practical solution for how to mitigate the rift (obviously a solution to my problem, which is that I don't see the group anymore; but again, not assuming that this is a problem for anyone else, indeed it doesn't seem to be). I don't have the energy or aptitude for lying and playing games, and I don't see the potential benefit of it, either. What would there be to gain by pretending? It would make me feel like sh*t. 

 

Anyway, he was visibly uncomfortable and didn't know what to say. It seemed he felt put on the spot, which was not at all my intention, so I offered something like, "I'm not saying this to involve you or open the matter to discussion; it's just how it is. I'd love to see you and the other guys, and maybe we could get together the five of us sometime." (I have no idea what alpha has said or not said in the group, and it doesn't matter, I'm not inquiring into that.) He shifted his weight from one foot to the other and said he had to get going, mumbling something along the lines of, "Well given the situation I guess it would be best to just meet up one on one or something, maybe grab a coffee sometime," in essence communicating that gathering the group without alpha was not going to happen. I let it go. It's been this way for more than four years, i'm used to it by now. I know that neither he nor the others will reach out or return my calls, I know we're not going to grab coffee like we once did, we're not going to get together for dinner like we used to several times a year. 

 

It made me happy to see his face and hear how he's doing. That was the valuable part of our running into each other in the street. I love him and care about him and wish him well. I know his kids, his ex-wife, his wife, I was at their wedding, I know a lot of his friends (used to know). It was really nice to have an update. He's a sweet guy, warm-hearted and honest and good, and I'm glad we were friends. I could tell that he's relatively fond of me even though it was clear he no longer saw me as being part of his life. There was no malice or unkindness, just a kind of non-committal friendliness; to him I'm in the category of vague, detached anecdotal interest; on the spectrum of caring, a little off to the positive side of center, not indifferent and also not engaged. It's okay, it's safe enough. At least he's not mean or judgmental or unpleasant. I'm just not on his radar. 

 

Even though I know that my choice to directly address the decisive conflict between alpha and me and its consequences would be considered a faux pas by most, and even though part of me found my choice embarrassing ( argh, why can't I ever just be cool?! ), I felt somehow that I'd done right by myself by being honest and forthright. I'd only stated the facts and suggested a solution, and I clearly expressed my desire to get together and see people. I felt vindicated when he admitted that they had been getting together without me, as it was really nice to know that my gut feeling was correct and it wasn't just WD paranoia; and I also felt good knowing that I'd made my interest and position clear. Sure it was mildly uncomfortable for a moment, but we're both adults and the truth is nothing to be afraid of. I'd a thousand times rather deal with a few fleeting awkward moments that go around and carry some secret burden alone and speculate. Yuck, I hate that so much. Better to just ask. 

 

So yeah. Early this morning yet another round of nightmares about this ex-friend. I'm curious to see whether these nightmares will go away when WD passes or whether they'll stick around. I figure if they're still there after WD I could consider doing some trauma processing work around the experience. Since the whole thing happened while I was in WD, there's a chance it got stuck in my body while I was already in a very raw, vulnerable, everything's-traumatic-right-now state (oof, those early years were *hard*; thank goodness it's not quite like that anymore), and maybe it will eventually fade organically along with WD. What a cliffhanger. 

 

Omg…. I know exactly the type of people/behavior you describe… you are definitely in the right.  By that I mean, I would have done the same thing, or would have been more aggressive.  I hate those fake little dances.  I always wonder what kind of person/what kind of priorities and values do you have to have to behave that way … I mean it’s probably about survival.  For them they play social games as a survival adaptation to ensure that they remain part of a group.  I think that maybe drugs and withdrawal make us tired of status quos and encoded survival habits? Who knows  

[Mdawg]

13 hours ago, Ariel said:

@Oaktree1

Thank you so much for your kind and supportive post. 

You are such a good reader, do you know this about yourself? Very attentive and attuned. I appreciate this about you, among your many other attractive qualities. 

 

How are you feeling today? (no pressure to reply if you're too tired or otherwise indisposed, I am just expressing interest and care) 

 

 

I am quite curious about this, I must say. I've noticed you mention it in your topic more than once. I don't know much about autism at all, it's one of the few diagnoses I have not received during my psychiatric tenure. Perhaps I should have done? (Only partially joking.) 

 

I am not soliciting any additional labeling or diagnosing. Fortunately or unfortunately I am too disillusioned at this point to feel that a diagnosis would be helpful. I find those categories so arbitrary as to be absurd. As I write this I feel a faint wistfulness for the time when I still held out a kind of wishful-thinking hope that if only I found the right diagnosis, it would function like a key to magically unlock me. Spoiler alert: No such luck. 

 

I'm curious about what it has meant to you to receive an ASD diagnosis. Has it changed anything for you, and if so, how? If you don't feel like going there I completely understand, I do not mean to pry. If you do have reflections on it and feel like sharing at some point when you have the energy, I'd love to hear about your experience. 

 

There's an Australian (Tasmanian) comedian, writer, performer named Hannah Gadsby, are you familiar with her work? She's quite brilliant. Gadsby has written and spoken about how receiving an ASD diagnosis relatively late in life changed things for her. It was liberating to receive and gave her a feeling of, Oh wow, well that explains a lot!

(Incidentally, Gadsby is excellent at railing against the patriarchy and the establishment in countless ways; yet it seems she has yet to arrive at comprehensive criticism of psychiatry, at least not publicly; this seems like a wasted opportunity, as the topic could certainly benefit from her intelligence. I hope she gets there one day (or if the material is already out there, I can't wait to find it!).)

 

As for the power dynamics and pecking orders of social relationships, those are, in my experience, very real. Often subconscious and involuntary, sometimes overt and coerced, deliberate. Whether or not they are examined, whether or not the participants are aware, there can be ongoing exploitative power exchanges taking place for years, as well as other unhealthy or toxic patterns. Sometimes these are static and fixed between people, sometimes they fluctuate, where people take on certain roles in relation to one another, then switch. Sometimes it's glaringly obvious, sometimes more subtle. This is all going on all the time, I'm convinced it's an inborn animal thing. I wonder whether sociopathy and psychopathy (there I go with the labels, excuse me please) can be said to occur in non-human animals, seems to me like it's a human thing. But other than that human mammals are just as hierarchical as wolves, lions, bees, etc. albeit in our own way. 

 

Are you saying in your post that people with the label autism, or neuro-atypical people, or whichever term is preferable, do not register or recognize the dynamics at play? Or that they maybe see the dynamics but do not participate? 

 

Something that has always bothered me since I was a child is that I do sense that there are these unwritten rules, and I often find them unfair, stupid, and illogical -- and when I point them out I am given the message to shut up. The maddening thing, more that the rules are there, is that people seem intent on denying that the rules exist, they deny the pecking order even as they participate in it. This is apparently one of the rules. The first rule of Fight Club is we do not talk about Fight Club. (Have you seen that movie? It's a good one. Although trigger warning, lots of violence and may not be WD-safe for people.)

 

So for me, my whistleblower inner child -- like the child in The Emperor's New Clothes, who points out that the emperor is naked -- has difficulty navigating this incongruence. In the fairy tale, when the child speaks up, their father backs them up and eventually all the villagers chime in and agree. In reality the one who speaks up is often left out in the cold, ostracized or punished one way or another; and everyone carries on as usual. I am dramatizing, exaggerating, generalizing, of course; although I have had many experiences of this. I find it very difficult to know what to do in these situations, because I can't stomach lying/pretending. Sometimes this makes social scenarios feel doomed, like it's only a matter of time before I spot something that's off, and then from that moment on I will have to either speak up and face the consequences or quit without saying anything. 

 

Anyway, I realize this is all rather vague and abstract. Sorry, Oaktree. I am getting off track. 

I really just meant to thank you with all my heart for your extraordinary empathy and prose.

Thank you for your kindness and support. The format may be virtual but I receive your words in a very real, embodied way.

 

With love and gratitude, wishing you peace, healing, serenity, connection,

A.  

 

Yes to all that 

[Mdawg]

12 hours ago, Ariel said:

@Oaktree1

P.S. (as I can no longer go back and edit my post)

I am remiss to have left out how sorry I feel that you are intimately familiar with such experiences of social rejection. 

 

 

I'm very sorry you have gone through this. It must have felt like such a disappointment and maybe betrayal? I understand that such experiences can be formative and traumatic and it can be hard to continue on as before. Especially when one is left to make do with one's family of origin, with that family being challenging in its own right. I'm sorry, dear Oaktree. My heart goes out to you.

 

There's nothing I can say to make it better, although I do want to emphasize that it's not your fault. None of this has happened because you "deserved" it; not that you seem to believe so, but still, I cannot stress enough that it's not because you did something wrong and were bad and thus merited such treatment. I hew to the view that there's no free will, not really, and the order of things (which we may not consciously perceive as order) is largely a matter of dumb luck one way or another. When the conditions are present for X to happen, X happens. It's all just circumstance and stimulus and response and conditioning, all just oscillating and weaving in and out of us. We think we are doing the living and the breathing but we are being lived and breathed. Our brains are wired to make meaning and spin stories and we create narratives of cause and effect, dramaturgical tidying, as a defense against the sublime truth that we are not in control. 

 

And yet, there are tools at our disposal, non-drug coping techniques and the lot, which we can amuse ourselves with and which can help lend us a sense of agency throughout our often insufferable conscious existence. I have to believe that our isolation and social situations and our spirits will improve eventually. I have to believe that in order to keep going, and I must keep going. Sorry to get maudlin, haha! It's one of those days (probably exacerbated by the lack of sleep), I've been feeling distraught, fraught, overwhelmed, and overwrought. You know the drill. 

 

Thank you for helping making the unbearable feel more bearable. You have helped me greatly today. 

 

Wow that’s exactly what I have been realizing 

[Ariel]

12 hours ago, Ninabird said:

I am sorry you are having a tough day. 

I wish I had the right words to help you through this patch. Just know that this is temporary and you will get through it. Another day down and closer to the light. 

Ariel, you must know that you bring so so much joy and love to so many of us on this site. You treat each and every one of us as though we were your first. You never get frustrated or treat us like we are frustrating you. You are a gem. We all adore you. You have so many cheering you on and sending you love. 

I pray you sleep soundly and have the most beautiful dreams. 

With much respect and care,

Ninabird

 

What a beautiful message <3

Thank you @Ninabird

Sending wishes of peace and healing

[Ariel]

On 6/24/2022 at 4:33 PM, Quittingquentiapin said:

Hi Ariel,

 

i read you are over a year out.

 

are you better now? 
 

can I ask for what did you take AP?

 

Hi Guest

I'm still in the process of healing from protracted withdrawal. Many symptoms have improved. 

 

By AP I'm guessing you mean "antipsychotic", i.e. what I've listed in my drug signature as "neuroleptics"?

 

Zyprexa/olanzapine and Seroquel/quetiapine were prescribed by a psychiatrist as treatment for a diagnosis of "psychotic depression" (as JanCarol puts it, diagnonsense). I was on these for maybe 6 months back in 2008.

 

A few years later another psychiatrist gave a diagnonsense of schizoaffective disorder; followed by yet another psychiatrist with yet another diagnonsense of schizophrenia. They prescribed Abilify/aripiprazole, which I was on for maybe 6-7 months (I don't remember). 

 

I posted a list of psychiatric diagnoses and prescription history here.

 

Knowing what I know today, I believe many of the psychiatric diagnoses were based on misinterpretation of what were actually withdrawal symptoms or adverse drug reactions. 

[Ariel]

19 hours ago, wantrelief said:

everyone is always so happy here with the warmer sunnier weather whereas it makes me feel even weirder for being inside so much.

 

Hi @wantrelief

Thank you for your lovely message. I appreciate the support!

 

Looks like you're in Seattle... Good choice, weather-wise, if you want to avoid too much sun? Or has the climate changed?

 

I sometimes joke that the plus side to my decades' experience of "depression" and "mental illness" and "not functioning" is that I've spent a lot of time indoors out of the sun, which has protected my skin to prevent the appearance of premature aging. Minimal sun damage, haha, and have saved a lot of money on expensive cosmetics scams. 

 

This evening has been overcast and I've been out for a walk. With any luck it'll rain tonight and clear the humidity right up. 

 

19 hours ago, wantrelief said:

Wishing you much better days ahead and hopefully soon.

 

Thank you so much, I think your wishes worked! I felt much better today. 

Hope the same for you, sending thoughts of peace and healing <3

[Ariel]

@Onmyway

Thank you so much for your nourishing message and compassion. 

I love that you always give me something to think about and look into further. 

 

17 hours ago, Onmyway said:

On IFS... the part of it that I like is that it allows for people to have so many layers to them and not judge themselves (and others) based on one behavior or shortcoming or vulnerability. We contain multitudes as Walt Whitman noticed. That way you can think of those vulnerable parts within yourself with compassion even if it would be hard to show compassion to your whole person. A compassion for the part that is lonely or the part that is angry and understanding of the feelings given the situation can soften you enough to short circuit an emotional spiral. One doesn't need to do the proper steps of unburdening etc. in IFS to get some respite. 

 

Yeah, this is very cool. Feels accessible which makes it all the more empowering! I like how at first glance it seems kind of woo-woo but then as soon as you listen to what the approach actually has to offer it's totally grounded and practical. I appreciate modalities with a low bar to entry so that one can just jump right in and get started and learn by doing. Also the inherent plurality of the approach seems to lend itself well to dealing with shame and other social issues. I'm curious about exploring IFS moving forward. Thanks so much for sharing your experience and knowledge!

 

I've got more to chew on from what you wrote, will get to digesting. 

Thinking of you and sending hugs <3

[Ariel]

@Mdawg

Thank you so much for your messages and support <3

It always makes me happy to see you in my thread. 

 

[Ariel]

So today I felt... fine. 

I got about 5 hours of decent quality sleep and woke up feeling... well. 

Yup. You heard me. 

I have thoroughly enjoyed spending a day feeling non-problem-ed. 

What a vacation today has been!

I didn't feel particularly amazing or zesty or creative or inspired or elated or anything. I just felt calm and steady and sort of comfortably quiet and above all else completely okay. 

No funky physical stuff, no funky mental or emotional stuff. 

It has been such a gift. 

 

To think that yesterday I was crawling out of my skin; on and off throughout the day seriously considering checking myself into a psych facility because I felt like being home alone was not an option; toying with the idea of going back on drugs; desperate for anything to stop the suffering. Yesterday my thoughts practically had me convinced that what I was feeling was no longer WD but just me, and hence there was absolutely no way forward. Yesterday I was ready and willing to die. 

 

And today, from the moment I woke up, I've felt fine.

(I am trying to avoid using the word "normal", even though it is tempting. But if we have a voice in our bellies that tells us, This is not normal, and Yeah this is how it should be, that voice today has been sighing with relief and contentment saying, Okay well this is more like it, this is an acceptable and decent baseline, this is normal.)

 

It's mind-blowing. 

 

News flash, feeling sh*tty is WD! 

What's that saying? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me five million trillion zillion kerjillion times, it's WD. 

 

I mean... listen. 

If I lived in a reality where every day (basically, more or less, allowing for some degree of natural fluctuation) I felt the way I did today -- in such a reality I could totally handle life. Even, I dare say, my currently f*cked-up, in-dire-need-of-repairs, fixer-upper, hot mess of a life. 

And that's on 5 hours of sleep, people! 

If I lived in this embodied reality 24/7, 365 and were getting 7-8 hours of good sleep on the regular? With overall stability that allowed for a consistent exercise routine and more reasonable, varied diet and reliable digestive performance? Damn. I'd have an actual shot. 

 

I didn't do anything special with my special day. I just relaxed into it as much as I could. Savored every minute. Lazed around, did some yoga, took a shower, cooked, ate, went for a walk.

I saw my mother and didn't lose my cool (you read that right), she was just a person and I was just a person and there wasn't a trigger to be set off in the whole of my body. 

 

Today I felt real. And today felt real. 

Nothing fancy or high-falutin', no ecstatic dancing or revelatory joy or rare epiphanies or communion with the divine. No lofty goals or sudden motivation or new ambitions or emergent aptitude. No mystical energy recycling or tantric pleasures. No transcendence of this material plane on which I solidly remain overweight, out of shape, palpably physically weakened and deconditioned by the past years' ordeal (and certainly feel the effects of in/on my body). Nothing grand or sophisticated or advanced whatsoever. 

Simply a broad, deep, pervasive, comprehensive, all-encompassing sense of wholeness, embodiment, integrity (although these words are sounding too pretentious, whereas this experience is precisely entirely without pretense); a feeling of being fully real and filled-in, plainly and undeniably and unspectacularly alive here now. 

 

If this is what I have to look forward to on the other side of healing, that's good enough for me.  

[Ariel]

Thank you all so much for your kindness and support.

It means the world. 

 

Short 'n' sweet gratitude list tonight:

Today. 

You. 

This. 

 

Love, peace, healing,

A. 

 

[Roserdl]

Wow that's amazing news!  Rooting for a trend.   

 

Hugs

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Ariel said:

 

Hi @Quittingquentiapin

I'm still in the process of healing from protracted withdrawal. Many symptoms have improved. 

 

By AP I'm guessing you mean "antipsychotic", i.e. what I've listed in my drug signature as "neuroleptics"?

 

Zyprexa/olanzapine and Seroquel/quetiapine were prescribed by a psychiatrist as treatment for a diagnosis of "psychotic depression" (as JanCarol puts it, diagnonsense). I was on these for maybe 6 months back in 2008.

 

A few years later another psychiatrist gave a diagnonsense of schizoaffective disorder; followed by yet another psychiatrist with yet another diagnonsense of schizophrenia. They prescribed Abilify/aripiprazole, which I was on for maybe 6-7 months (I don't remember). 

 

I posted a list of psychiatric diagnoses and prescription history here.

 

Knowing what I know today, I believe many of the psychiatric diagnoses were based on misinterpretation of what were actually withdrawal symptoms or adverse drug reactions. 

Ok, did you have the syntoms now? And did you have this syntoms before? Have you this symptoms in WD?

 

sorry for all the questions?

[wantrelief]

Hi Ariel,

 

Oh wow - I am so happy for you that you had such a good day and felt so much better.....that is wonderful news!! 

 

3 hours ago, Ariel said:

If this is what I have to look forward to on the other side of healing, that's good enough for me.

I think that this is indeed what you have to look forward to on the other side of healing!  🙂

 

4 hours ago, Ariel said:

Looks like you're in Seattle... Good choice, weather-wise, if you want to avoid too much sun? Or has the climate changed?

Yes, I am in Seattle and it does suite me to live in a cooler climate with less sun.  I think the climate has changed though as we seem to be having warmer summers now than I recall.  Still, I shouldn't complain as it could be a whole lot worse.

 

I am so glad you experienced this much deserved break, Ariel!  

[Ariel]

Hi friends,

We talk a lot about identity and the difficulty (impossibility?) of discerning "who am I" and "what is me" and "what is WD". 

 

Yesterday and today so far (knock on wood) I'm in what must be a window, feeling symptom-free, and so I just want to share the view from here. 

Good visibility, cool and clear:

The questioning of what's what, what is me, what is WD -- is itself a sub-symptom of WD. 

 

If you are asking, what is me? what is WD? Chances are it's WD.

Not "relapse", not "an underlying condition", not some monstrous suddenly emergent abject personality, not a cosmically unlucky breakthrough fate of being doomed forever. None of those, but rather: WD, a chronic, debilitating iatrogenic illness that is as harrowing as it is unjust. 

 

If you had told me this two days ago I may not have believed you. The day before last I was writhing in misery, convinced that the profound existential horror I was suffering was no longer WD but fully "me", leaving me no recourse but to throw in the towel in any number of ways.

 

The cruelest trick WD plays on us is to persuade us that it's not there. 

 

That's why I'm writing to you while I'm still at the scenic outlook of this present moment, enjoying the vista point.

 

It's hard to fathom any other reality than the one you're experiencing; that goes both ways.

(Have you ever found yourself in the midst of a summer heat wave, packing for travel to a cold climate (or vice versa), stumped by the mental leap between two temperatures? It boggles the mind, and that's a benign, banal example of the limits of our imagination when it comes to sensate experience.)

 

For now, here I am, basking in this perfect ordinariness.

I feel fine. No physical, mental, emotional symptoms. No neuro-emotions. No discernible brain-craziness. Not bothered by WD. Simply me. 

I still might not "know who I am" in some social, societal, cultural constructed identity sense, but I am in my body and I feel real and true. 

 

My message to you (and to my future self) -- my message to us -- today is:

We're gonna be okay.

Underneath WD bullsh*t we already are okay.

When the WD smog lifts, there are no doubts as to who we are, what's what, whether or not we're real or well or worthy.

We simply are, and in that being, we are at peace, knowing what there is to know. 

 

With love and gratitude, healing is happening, 

A.

[Faure]

12 hours ago, Ariel said:

So today I felt... fine. 

I got about 5 hours of decent quality sleep and woke up feeling... well. 

Yup. You heard me. 

I have thoroughly enjoyed spending a day feeling non-problem-ed. 

What a vacation today has been!

I didn't feel particularly amazing or zesty or creative or inspired or elated or anything. I just felt calm and steady and sort of comfortably quiet and above all else completely okay. 

No funky physical stuff, no funky mental or emotional stuff. 

It has been such a gift. 

Hooray! What great news, I’m so happy to hear you had a good day. Especially after the day you had before. Glad you enjoyed it 😄👍😄Be careful not to rush about and do lots of things, although I don’t see you’re doing that - just enjoying feeling good. Let’s hope you have a good day today as well. 

(Hope you like the link I wanted to embed it here but don’t know how!)

[Ariel]

@Faure

Thank you so much! 

Yass I love the link, thank you <3 

17 minutes ago, Faure said:

Be careful not to rush about and do lots of things

I wish you could see me, picture a fat cat belly up, splayed out in a sunbeam... 

Imagine telling that cat not to rush about and do lots of things, lol 

I know what you mean, though, thank you kindly for your care <3

 

Sending wishes of a peaceful, pleasant day for you to, or at least moments of relief (your choice, depending on how this finds you),

I appreciate you <3

[Ariel]

Thank you so much @wantrelief

It's a pleasure and a privilege to share these moments of peace with my SA peeps <3

 

9 hours ago, wantrelief said:

I think that this is indeed what you have to look forward to on the other side of healing!  🙂

Oh I really hope so, for all of us! 

I want to send a postcard from here to my future self (near-future, the one that will be going through waves again) saying:

Come on in, the water's fine. 

 

Wishing you a good/manageable day, WR, peace and relief, and whatever you need for where you're at in this moment.

Healing is happening <3

[Ariel]

@Roserdl

Thank you so much! 

 

10 hours ago, Roserdl said:

Wow that's amazing news!  Rooting for a trend.   

 

Hugs

 

I know you are going through it right now, I'm holding space for your experience. 

Hang in there, R, it gets better! Doesn't feel possible in our moments of suffering, but healing really is happening all the time, even when we don't consciously feel it. We are here to remind each other of that as we spiral in and out of this weird, wild WD experience. 

 

Sending you heartfelt wishes for peace and relief 

[Ariel]

On 6/25/2022 at 5:22 PM, Quittingquentiapin said:

Ok, did you have the syntoms now? And did you have this syntoms before? Have you this symptoms in WD?

 

Hi Guest

What are the specific symptoms you're curious about? 

 

[unblocktheplanet]

@Ariel

This thread—your thread—has some of the most moving posts I’ve seen on SA. A lot of what you write resonates with my own experience, and I’m hearing lots of others, too. As in, what next.

 

I get a laugh that so many here on SA sign with a disclaimer that we’re not ‘medical professionals’. Oh baby, yes we are! Sosumi!

 

I’ve often wondered if my windows (not the billionaire kind but those with blowing curtains, dust motes in streaming sunbeams) were ‘hypomania’. Shrinks describe bipolars as not wanting to give up this part.

 

Sure feels like the real me, or at least the me I remember before mind-melt. The wave part for me is almost-total anhedonia. I thought anorexia was for teenage girls! Can’t enjoy video or music or people. No videocalls! Social alienation. Just faking it, getting by. Mostly hide at home. And that’s a drag because, well, I’m just so real, ya know. What is not me is the envy I feel at the happiness of others!

 

In genuine mania, I’ve heard that bipolars are reckless. For example, spending money they don’t have. In my waves, I’m afraid to spend a cent; in windows, I shop normally. Weird, eh? Point is, we’re all weird in such different and the same ways.

 

I was a lot of fun, the last man standing. Bet I’d chat you up in the produce aisle! Today, religious 930 bedtimes, no wine or coffee, I’m no fun. And still getting so little sleep.

 

At particularly low points, I’ve tried to “process my feelings” (like, gag me!) with my wife of over 30 years. But mostly I think that’s selfish. No purpose is served by inflicting our suffering on those who love us. It puts fear in them.

 

Tried five Ketamine infusions. No cigar. But my public hospital shrink suggested he would be my therapist an hour a week. Only patient he’s ever offered. I like him. He’s a kind, intelligent man…who is called Dr ECT!

 

Our first three sessions were history-taking. The fourth led to a kind of mindfulness / no-mind / letting go which seems was therapeutic, at least for him. I don’t even know where to start!

 

Is talk therapy more than expiatory? The jury’s out for me. At least here it’s really cheap (eight bucks), and often they forget to charge. So the cost:benefit works for me.

 

I grew up in the 60s. I believe in psychedelics. History has proven us hippies right. I would very much like to try therapy with an experienced, compassionate guide (likely with no license to lose) using MDMA, psilocybin, mescaline or LSD.

 

I know those teachers already. I think I’d get <somewhere> more fully, more completely. Looking for a trusted source…from a death penalty country. For me, that’s where I’d invest my very limited money. If it didn’t get me <anywhere>, at least it would be something I could cross off my psychiatric bucket list!

 

Neuro-joy. At this present moment, I have plenty. I’ll gift you as much as you need. And it’s not a loan…

 

And by the way, I’m far away but I’m your friend, Ariel. Hey, and you are cool! It’s the stars are insignificant.

 

I may be a naif but it always takes me by surprise to find there are people who are not grateful for…all this!

 

Our defense, our shield, is that we would never do anything so hurtful to another. Because we’re conscious. Because we care.

 

At 72, I can count the number of people I dropped on one hand. A lot of us here are holding you up, ‘good’ days & ‘bad’.

 

“The cruelest trick WD plays on us is to persuade us that it's not there.” 

 

To cheer up your day: stung by a giant Asian ‘murder’ hornet (big as your palm) when I was pruning the banana trees, painted my mailbox red…and a lot of unintentional stuff, too; and my hot pepper jam is determined not to set!

 

P.S. Yes, you should write, Ariel! I’m a writer, lotsa books, no money. But you have something to say very unique to you. I’ll be your editor (my pleasure)…and first buyer!

 

P.P.S. Yep, life: it’s all Fight Club! Folks here may be interested in watching the series Nine Perfect Strangers.

 

 

CJ

Bangkok

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Ariel said:

4 hours ago, Ariel said:

 

Hi @Quittingquentiapin

What are the specific symptoms you're curious about? 

 

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Ariel said:

 

Hi @Quittingquentiapin

What are the specific symptoms you're curious about? 

 

Schizophrenie Andy psychosis?

[Ariel]

Guest

 

On 6/26/2022 at 8:12 AM, Quittingquentiapin said:

Schizophrenie Andy psychosis?

 

Hi Qq, 

 

I'm pretty anti-psychiatry and don't really believe in the terms "schizophrenia" and "psychosis". I'm not entirely sure what you mean by these terms and don't feel like hazarding a guess. I try to avoid the psychiatric paradigm whenever I can, instead practicing ways of expressing experience in a non-pathologizing way. It's part of my unlearning, unpatienting, healing process. 

 

If you're asking in reference to your own specific sensory/embodied/lived experiences, you're welcome to describe more specifically the kinds of experiences you're thinking of, and I can tell you whether or not I've ever experienced anything similar. Okay?

 

As I mentioned before, my current understanding of my psychiatric/drug history is that many of the symptoms I struggled with were due to adverse reactions to psych drugs and or withdrawal symptoms from incorrectly going off of the psych drugs. 

 

Is there something in particular you're concerned about in relation to your own experience? Are you looking for reassurance about your own situation and recovery?

 

You will heal <3

 

P.S. 

I've now written to you over in your own topic. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ariel said:

@Quittingquentiapin

 

 

Hi Qq, 

 

I'm pretty anti-psychiatry and don't really believe in the terms "schizophrenia" and "psychosis". I'm not entirely sure what you mean by these terms and don't feel like hazarding a guess. I try to avoid the psychiatric paradigm whenever I can, instead practicing ways of expressing experience in a non-pathologizing way. It's part of my unlearning, unpatienting, healing process. 

 

If you're asking in reference to your own specific sensory/embodied/lived experiences, you're welcome to describe more specifically the kinds of experiences you're thinking of, and I can tell you whether or not I've ever experienced anything similar. Okay?

 

As I mentioned before, my current understanding of my psychiatric/drug history is that many of the symptoms I struggled with were due to adverse reactions to psych drugs and or withdrawal symptoms from incorrectly going off of the psych drugs. 

 

Is there something in particular you're concerned about in relation to your own experience? Are you looking for reassurance about your own situation and recovery?

 

You will heal ❤️

 

P.S. 

I've now written to you over in your own topic. 

Yes, I had the diagnosis psychosis and shizoaffektive. And Iam scared, that this right. I am just scared. I’m not good at all, I want to leave the hhouse. I can’t discribe my symptoms. 

[getofflex]

20 hours ago, Ariel said:

So today I felt... fine. 

I got about 5 hours of decent quality sleep and woke up feeling... well. 

Yup. You heard me. 

I have thoroughly enjoyed spending a day feeling non-problem-ed. 

What a vacation today has been!

 

20 hours ago, Ariel said:

To think that yesterday I was crawling out of my skin; on and off throughout the day seriously considering checking myself into a psych facility because I felt like being home alone was not an option; toying with the idea of going back on drugs; desperate for anything to stop the suffering. Yesterday my thoughts practically had me convinced that what I was feeling was no longer WD but just me, and hence there was absolutely no way forward. Yesterday I was ready and willing to die.

What a clear and obvious example of the roller coaster ride that WD is!  I'm thankful that you did not act on the impulse to go into a psych facility, or go back on drugs.  Isn't it amazing how compelling our thoughts can be while we are in a wave?  I'm very glad that you felt so good yesterday!  I hope your window extends into today as well - you deserve it!  

 

Thanks for all the wonderful work you do supporting and encouraging so many people on here.  You truly have a gift of writing. 

[getofflex]

@Ariel do you mind if I borrow some of your posts, to share with other members?  My computer is having trouble with the "share" option, so I may just have to copy and paste.  I'll give you the credit for them.  Thank you.  

[Ariel]

Hi getofflex,

Thank you so much for your messages, and thank you for your wonderful work. 

 

15 minutes ago, getofflex said:

do you mind if I borrow some of your posts, to share with other members?  My computer is having trouble with the "share" option, so I may just have to copy and paste.  I'll give you the credit for them.  Thank you.  

 

Yes of course, it would be an honor! Please feel free to use as you see fit.  

[Mdawg]

6 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

 

I get a laugh that so many here on SA sign with a disclaimer that we’re not ‘medical professionals’. Oh baby, yes we are! Sosumi!

😂exactly what I’ve been thinking 

[Greatful]

@@Ariel

Pinch me, is this the same person from a few days ago.   Thank you for reminding us that healing is possible.🌞

Wow what's it like to be symptoms free Ahhhhhhh.  Truly amazing how quickly things can shift around on us. 

Desperate and looking for a way out to I guess I can do this.  Way to go Ariel❤️

 

When everything lines up in our brains and body, this is how it's supposed to be, your natural brain without stimulants or depressants. 🌞

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Ariel]

@Greatful

 

15 minutes ago, Greatful said:

Pinch me, is this the same person from a few days ago. 

 

I know, right? Haha it's really mind-blowing

I wanted to make sure I documented it so that we'd have a record. It seems so improbable, unbelievable.

It's changed in the past few days but it sure was welcome while it lasted. 

 

17 minutes ago, Greatful said:

Desperate and looking for a way out to I guess I can do this. 

Yes, Greatful! You can do this, you are doing it. We're in this together.

We just have to hang in there and it'll pass. It gets better, it is getting better, healing is happening <3