modelarz71: Escitalopram PAWS request for advice

[modelarz71]

Good morning, in 2022 I used AD escitalopram from 2.5 to 10 mg for months for depression (?) After a month I got an improvement in mood but at the cost of sleep restriction and strange activation. In January 2023 I didn't take it anymore, but the activation remained and I enjoyed it even then, although in my mind I was afraid that I would pay for the sleep restriction someday. In March I fell ill with covid and then my depression doubled. My  doctor said to go back to escitalopram and added quetapine. I am afraid now of this treatment now. Other doctor wants to add pragabalin yet. I feel very bad:  akathisia and very little sleep, therefore my family in bad mood
 

Edited June 29, 2023 by manymoretodays
name to topic title

[modelarz71]

I wonder if  I would take  e.g. 1mg Escitalopram again now it would be good. Yesterday, however, I felt better for a few hours (these were beautiful moments) I was afraid it was "hypomania" but today I feel bad again. I've noticed that if I'm worried about finances or I'm stressed about something (I'm sweating then), I'm going to feel bad all the time rest of the  day. Before taking AD  when I was stressed during the day in the evening I could think positively and it was fine. I understand that my nervous system has been deregulated.
Despite feeling unwell, I was at my niece's birthday today, there were guests and cake. At first I felt worse, I had sweat on my forehead, but then it got some better. I thought about going home and reading about hope on this site. 

PS. I wish I could turn back time and not take SSRI last year. It was only 6 months taking them and so big cost...I se now I was almost helthy then.

Everyone advised take these drugs, friends who took them, a doctor, a psychotherapist ("...maybe some AD would help you" he said after some meetings - I like to imagine that he said then "don't take these pills, we'll manage with psychotherapy" , another said in my group everybody take pills AD. Only one 

There were only two wise old women. One had cancer and said "you believe that chemistry will help you" and the other believed only in Ayurveda and didn't advise me AD, but I didn't listen to her, it's a pity.

For seven years before taking AD last yera  I have a problem with anxiety (depression) but functioned well, sleep well. I am not a doctor and Thats only my story not a medical advise...

[modelarz71]

I don't know if I should take again escitalopram which made me "hypomaniac" last year. Maybe a low dose of 0.5mg? Someone give advise? . I will ask another psychiatrist but I can guess that he will say to take and it will be at least 10mg and it will be the same again. Hypomania and then down again.
It's a pity that maybe I won't go on vacation to the sea again, this year like I didn't go last year when I started taking AD ;(
Who invented these drugs at all, why such science. There is a Hipocrates oath,: Ffirst do no harm - do doctors even remember that?
 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @modelarz71

 

It appears that you have withdrawal syndrome from going off escitalopram. What do you mean by "hypomania"?

 

Yes, reinstating a little escitalopram, such as 1mg, (or its milder sibling, citalopram) might assist withdrawal symptoms.

What is withdrawal syndrome? 
 
About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms 
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Because you might find escitalopram activating again, citalopram, which is also widely available, might be better for you. Generally, a liquid form is easiest for small doses. Both drugs should be available in prescription liquid.

 

Please translate everything in your signature to English so the staff may understand it.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[modelarz71]

Thank you for the information. My "Hypomania": waking up early at 4 am and wanting to do various things at home, difficulty falling asleep, racing thoughts, I don't know what to do, which thing to choose, lots of ideas, no depression or fears then.

 

2022 Escitalopram May 14-May 30: 5mg, 10mg, 2.5mg C/T
2022 Escitalopram July 25 2.5mg, 5mg, 10mg (from some days of AD, problems with falling asleep begin) August-December 7.5mg, 5mg, 2.5mg C / T
2023 Escitalpram May 25-June 12 5mg, 2.5mg C/T

[Altostrata]

I don't think that rises to the level of hypomania. It sounds like you have withdrawal activation and insomnia, which is common.

 

You're only just off escitalopram, in the acute withdrawal phase. If you find your symptoms intolerable or get worse, you might consider low-dose citalopram, as explained above.

[modelarz71]

I'm sorry, is it possible to edit my earlier posts? When I was taking an SSRI last year I started having trouble sleeping and had too much energy, so I stopped taking it then. 
3 months later, not good, complete sleeplessness, anxiety and associated akathization. Since then, only eating sweets and taking walks calms me down. I also feel very bad on the bus when it is stuck in a traffic jam, I have a mental need to get off. I see that many people here took these drugs for many years, and I only took half a year and it hurt me so much,  I am waiting to see another psychiatrist this week and I know he will say to take esitalopram 10mg, kertel 25mg and maybe pregabalin 75mg. And I'm still afraid whether to bring back 1mg or 0.5mg of Escilatopram now as I read on this forum. Now  I've been sleeping a bit better, but I wake up a lot.

[Altostrata]

No, sorry, if you have a correction, post it in a new box.

 

It sounds like you're seeing small improvement, which is what we would expect.

 

If you cannot cope with your withdrawal symptoms, a small dose as described above can help. You can increase it if needed. Please let us know if you have questions about that.

 

If you want more drugs, seeing a psychiatrist is a good way to do it. We can't comment, we don't prescribe drugs, we only help people go off them.

[modelarz71]

I'm sorry, of course I don't want them anymore, I just wrote what I  can expect from a visit to a psychiatrist, they don't even know whatAD does in the head. (for me it was such a harm) for me it was very bad, but I went to them myself.

I  will no longer write about what the psychiatrist proposed, very sorry.

[Altostrata]

Not a worry. I'm sure the psychiatrist proposed more drugs.

[modelarz71]

Yesterday I felt better, the pressure in my head and depression went away, I even wanted to make plans for Saturday. But today I feel bad again (it's already 3 months of WD) it's even hard for me to watch TV series with my mother, she is so important to me me but when I feel bad, sometimes I say to her Why You didnt stop me from takingAD in last year" Shame on me. Why yesterday was better, maybe I had more hope. 
 I guess I should bring AD 1mg back but i am afraid

[Altostrata]

Three months of withdrawal is very short. If you're already seeing some improvement, you can expect that to continue, but it might be very slow.

 

Withdrawal symptoms come and go. Did you read this The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

I can understand how you might not enjoy your mother's company if you blame her for your current situation.

 

[modelarz71]

My WD symptoms now: sweating, trouble sleeping, anxiety. I think I will follow the information and bring back 1 mg of escilatopram, it's probably not much
I don't have "brain zaps", I've been sleeping for a few hours already, (I only wake up but then fall back asleep for now)

My mother didnt know many about AD, thats sister who insisted on taking by me those AD because she believes what the mainstream says about you. And she is me boss at work...
Citalopram, which is weaker, used to cause me problems in the prostate gland. Escitalopram didn't cause that much, so I didn't reject it at first, but there's no need to cry about it anymore.

[modelarz71]

I am very sad, sometimes I panic what will happen next. I just remember how bad it was that I was taking this escitaopram. I feel sorry for my mother for looking at my condition. I just sit in the kitchen and eat cakes. Before the treatment AD , I was a different person. Reading this forum is very important.
 

[modelarz71]

One thing puzzles me, I took escitalopram for only 6 months in average doses of 7.5mg and I have such severe symptoms of AD as if I had been taking it for several years, I don't understand it..
 

[Comecloser80]

Hi, I was on those poison for much  less time than you even though I am on different drug than you.I am 6 months out and still suffering. Please don’t be puzzled what these drugs can do to humans. 
 

I wish you speedy recovery.

 

I think all we need is TIME ,PATIENCE and HOPE.

[modelarz71]

Thank you for your message. I wish you health improvement as soon as possible. 

I am now wondering if  I brought back escitalopram at a low dose of 1mg it would improve my WD symptoms a bit. 
I'm afraid if it won't "activate" me again and worsen my already poor sleep (although I only sleep with shallow sleep and waking up), but such a small dose would probably not work that much 
as I learn on this forum. Here on the forum it was written that a small dose will "cover" about 20% of the brain. As long as it works of course. But it's hard to take back what was harmful before. 
I may just continue to suffer. On the forum someone wrote that returning small dose of AD, give a chance for "healing" 
 It's all as difficult and incomprehensible.

[Dutchsarah]

@Purae it's very inspiring to read that you are slowly doing a bit better. 

 

I'm 16 weeks off now and Im in such a bad wave. I'm thinking I will never be on the other side of this. 

Reading other people stories is was is keeping me going. 

 

Wishing you lots of healing for the near future. 

[Dutchsarah]

@modelarz71

I really understand when you say you where a different person before these medications.

I hardly recognize myself sometimes. 

Watching TV or any kind of screen time is hard for my system as well. 

Wishing you lost of healing. 

[Altostrata]

@modelarz71 how has your sleep pattern changed in the last week? How much sleep are you getting now?

 

There is no point to reinstating if you're on the road to natural recovery over a couple of months. From your description, it seems you had acute withdrawal symptoms but now they're mild.

 

Since you've already been on and off citalopram and escitalopram 4 times in the last year, maybe you should stop doing this?

[modelarz71]

I took escitalopram for the longest time from VII-XII 2022 and then in March 2023 WD took place after stress related 
to covid infection. I was scared because I couldn't sleep then till 4 am. I started using melatonin about 1mg and 
hydroxyzine to sleep and it was a little better. I also went to the psychiatrist and he wanted me to take  quetapinum and 
AD again - I used 3 mg AD. 
I haven't taken it for a month now.
Actualy in the evening I take about 1mg of melatonin and sometimes 5mg of hydroxyzine. I sleep probably 6 hours, sleep 
is shallow with waking up and there are unpleasant dreams and a little sweating.
During the day I feel bad, my head is tight, especially when I get nervous about something.

Then I am close to panic (?) but after a while I calm down I just have this pressure in my head and I prefer to be
 still then. It's  better when I go to work and do something.

I've never had such near "panic" states before taking AD.

Sometimes I have the better part of the day when I get something done. Then I don't have this squeeze in my head and it's almost fine, for example, 
yesterday it was like that. 
But today my head is still clenched because I was nervous about something in the morning.

PS

Before the treatment last year, I had nerve problems for almost eight years, so I wasn't in a very good condition 
but I defended myself against these drugs and somehow it was. Sometimes I had a headache from nervousness 
but I dealt with it and in the evening it was fine and sleep was always good.

Many thanks

 

[modelarz71]

Hello, the longest taking of escilatopram was from July to December 2022, I wanted to be so "responsible" 
I thought I was treating for my family. This had serious consequences for me because I started having sleep problems, 
racing thoughts. In march, after covid, WD started much worse than before treatment. I tried to save myself - reinstall 
escitalopram for three weeks. 
Now it's been three weeks since I haven't taken anything again. I get annoyed easily but 
watching my sleep is important to me right now. I wake up, but I fall asleep again,  there are 
different colored dreams.  
Before falling asleep, I try to think about my father, whom I didn't know much, and then I dream of him.
Other dreams in WD are rather unpleasant of coure some worms, centipedes on my dog...

Of course sister ( she doesn't have much money) but she took me to a private psychiatrist again last friday he advised 
me to take at least 3mg esci and DC said maybe I imagine this treatment had this effect on me which of course is not true 
because if I was like before treatment, I would do something in the garden and not sit in front of the computer all day
 I just asked for a prescription for escitalpram drops in case I need to bring it back to calm down WD as it said on forum.

[modelarz71]

PS Thank you for  the advice, I have to make a sleep pattern, I'll take a piece of paper and a pen and when I wake up I'll 
make a note, because I can't really define this pattern exactly, I'm just happy that I fall asleep.
I'm a little afraid of this scheme, maybe it will turn out that I don't sleep much

[Altostrata]

6 hours of sleep is not bad for withdrawal syndrome. We would expect slow improvement over months, if you're careful to avoid stress and not overdo anything.

 

Did you always have health anxiety?

[modelarz71]

Thank You for your message. 
I think I was always worried about my health because my mother was overprotective and my father was not 
there to stop this upbringing in fear. I wonder how You guessed it, it's amazing

[Altostrata]

Please read

 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

Shame, guilt, regret, and self-criticism

 

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

 

[modelarz71]

I don't want to bother too much because a lot of people here have been taking drugs longer than me. 
I guess I was talking too much about myself. I will read about these non-drug ways.
Now an important problem for me is if I should reinstall that 1mg of escitalopram. I feel sometimes better, (anxiety is smaller)  but 
yesterday I wrote down on a piece of paper waking up during sleep and it turned out that I woke up about 6 times and fell 
asleep again, it's such a poor sleep. There are other symplotms AD but less imoprtant probably.
When I took this AD last year it reduced my need for sleep and that's where the problems with sleeping started.
 It energized me only. But I don't know about drugs and I don't know if I should restore it to sleep better and help brain get some harmony.
 

[Altostrata]

I wouldn't reinstate escitalopram if you're recovering naturally. You must get your health anxiety under control.

[modelarz71]

My sympathy to all those suffering here.

I must observe if I am recovering naturally, but still is no good. 

Before escitalopram it was great compared to today. 
It's hard for me to accept that I decided to take it, because it's hard for me to believe that there will be
 homeostasis and the receptors will rebuild, but if I believe, maybe it will. Yesterday it was better, today
 it's bad again because in the morning my mother was angry (all day tightness in the head accompanied by anxiety). 
On Polish forums, I sometimes read that someone took esci, then he had mania, so he stopped and somehow functions 
because he did not want to be a guinea pig with drugs anymore. (sorry for translator)
 I can see that stress can throw me off balance for the whole day.
 

[modelarz71]

Some day.

Today I felt better during the day. My mother was calm, I was stress-free. I'm writing it down to remember that it could 
have been.
P.S. I'm curious where SSRI dreams come from. They are during "treatment" and during WD, maybe it has to do with 
intermittent sleeping, that I remember them...
Plus night sweats.

[modelarz71]

Today some anxiety, then this headache again, more anxiety,strange sweating,.
 I worry maybe I should try this 1mg of esitalopram.

[modelarz71]

PS Today I think I got brain zaps for the first time, short ones on top of my head, 
I didn't have them before, I hope it will pass...

[Altostrata]

What is withdrawal syndrome? 
 
The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Many people find these to be helpful:

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

You might try a low dose of one at a time to see what it does for you.

 

We don't have any miracle cures to instantly set you right again, sorry. If I were you, I'd be happy with slow recovery without the risk of more drugs. If you want more drugs, please see a doctor.

[modelarz71]

 

Thank You very much,

Yesterday, I managed to do something and I was happy and then I had no pressure and anxiety,even started making plans.
 That was very strange for  me even had thoughts thats it all over with WD.
But today anxiety and pressure in a head again all day . I keep thinking about restoring, for example, 0.5mg of escilatopram, 
because I have constant anxiety and this pressure etc, 
 I read that such reinstall is better than waiting, but I know is my decision

[Altostrata]

On 7/10/2023 at 5:11 PM, Altostrata said:

I wouldn't reinstate escitalopram if you're recovering naturally. You must get your health anxiety under control.

 

[modelarz71]

Yesterday I felt good, today I feel bad again.
 I'm worried the doctor would say (if I would ask) that is bi polar
 (sorry for translator)