BaccatePlayer: Immediate adverse reaction to sertraline

[BaccatePlayer]

4 hours ago, KaiLee said:

I understand the feeling of fighting for nothing.

But now I go through tons of changes. It is not pleasing for me, but at least now I am much closer to being in life than where I was before.

I believe this will happen to you, too.

I am sorry if this sounds irrelavant to your sitiation. I still do not have enough strength to read other people's posts.

Take care.

That's what I relate to. I may be thinking about reading someone's post, but my panicking mind identifies with it. It skips context and just starts thinking about all the wierd symptoms and incredibly long dates visible on others' threads. I have to recover and deal with trauma caused by meds first.

 

I'm starting to fall back to my old pattern. I became more social because isolation only feeds rumminations and panic. Problem is, I can't stand people having boundaries. This always feels like ultimate rejection. I don't know why I had always been so fluid with it, believing that others can do anything with me and that I can do so with them too. Whenever I hear accusations that I stopped on someone's line, that someone hides something from me or any form of silence treatment, I give up on people right away. Others have so much life to share, relationships, experiences and ideas while I have nothing and feel like no one among them. Always forced, tolerated and wierd. It was never a problem as long as I remained alone, but facing people shows how I overvalue myself and demand way too much attention. That's when I feel most mentally ill because my instant reactions are always going from one extreme to another. A wave is a very bad time to dwell on it, so I'll leave it for now, but it's actually a good sign that I start thinking like myself even if it's being a generally horrible person. I may be one of those who are only comfortable when they have some "home sweet home" suffering. Definitelly not the immediate adverse reaction I'm dealing with now, but my actual struggles. Symptoms are like "how will I even survive this?" but my toxic traits are at least making me suffer on my own conditions. Where the entitled kid has a voice, symptoms panic goes silent.

 

Speaking of symptoms, large and frightening bursts of moods still plague me, brain burning too, but at least there was no panic attack as of now. I'm not sure if I should be posting so often, this (as it seems) effectively repeled mods and mentors from my topic. I would probably fall into complete isolation if I did, but truth is, I always use people in one way or another. When in panic, all of my interactions with women are screams for help. When more at ease, all are subconsciously invaded by romantic context. I'm not really into writing diaries and contemplating my personal issues, but this one is actually affecting my activity here. Bright note is that I was not unhappy knowing these are my quirks before meds.

 

I am hopeful and believe your situation can also improve with time. If you are convinced these aren't symptoms anymore, then I can tell you, you still won't go wrong trying to take care of yourself and interacting with quality people. No matter what you've gone through, the future is in your hands. The past may have been terrible, but don't make yourself regret the time you're spending now. Thank you for support and let the positivity guide you, Kai.

[BaccatePlayer]

Still struggling to sleep for long enough. I've got too many thoughts, ideas and I'm not sure if my brain is ready for handling both the recovery burden and my regular life pace. I didn't want to resume normal life too quickly, but a thought here, some work there, family taking me somewhere and suddenly I'm barely saving myself throughout the day.

 

Typically for a wave, my stress tolerance now is very low and it doesn't help when I lately hear others not seeing improvements despite doing everything right. I know my case looks promising: young age, immediate adverse reaction and not withdrawal, but still the chances of recovery and its length could be anything.

 

It's technically easier for me because I'm drug free since 22.12.2023, so it's obvious I should just abstain from the current perspective, but I'm feeling more panic from all that uncertainity. I was more confident three weeks ago. I'm telling myself that I do see improvements, that windows get longer, that symptoms fade quicker, but I may still be in acute phase. At least I don't have physical-life-impacting symptoms, just mental tortures. Giving myself 50-55 days more to judge my condition, right now I should take more care of myself though I feel lonely and drained.

[Sonia009]

1 hour ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Still struggling to sleep for long enough. I've got too many thoughts, ideas and I'm not sure if my brain is ready for handling both the recovery burden and my regular life pace. I didn't want to resume normal life too quickly, but a thought here, some work there, family taking me somewhere and suddenly I'm barely saving myself throughout the day.

 

Typically for a wave, my stress tolerance now is very low and it doesn't help when I lately hear others not seeing improvements despite doing everything right. I know my case looks promising: young age, immediate adverse reaction and not withdrawal, but still the chances of recovery and its length could be anything.

 

It's technically easier for me because I'm drug free since 22.12.2023, so it's obvious I should just abstain from the current perspective, but I'm feeling more panic from all that uncertainity. I was more confident three weeks ago. I'm telling myself that I do see improvements, that windows get longer, that symptoms fade quicker, but I may still be in acute phase. At least I don't have physical-life-impacting symptoms, just mental tortures. Giving myself 50-55 days more to judge my condition, right now I should take more care of myself though I feel lonely and drained.

@BaccatePlayerJust thought I'd pop over to your thread to see how you're doing. Sorry it's not going great but I have every confidence that you will get through this because you have the will and determination to do so. We all face setbacks and challenges but you have the right frame of mind to see this through. Best regards.🙏😊

[Kaylaq]

Hang in there! As you have told us before, …stay out of the rumination cycle as much as possible. Don’t over analyze, …focus on good self care and healing activities! You have given us so much, now it’s time to focus on your healing steps! Lots of self love , patience & compassion!! 
💪💪🥰🥰

[BaccatePlayer]

4 hours ago, Sonia009 said:

@BaccatePlayerJust thought I'd pop over to your thread to see how you're doing. Sorry it's not going great but I have every confidence that you will get through this because you have the will and determination to do so. We all face setbacks and challenges but you have the right frame of mind to see this through. Best regards.🙏😊

That's so kind of you, I know you're struggling as well, but at least we understand each other here. I think that panic attack two weeks ago traumatized me badly and I'm still getting flashbacks to these "out of this world" sensations. A bit of depersonalization, hammer hit top head feeling, stomach slowing down, insomnia, nausea, phosphenes gallore, heart racing and panic for today. Parents don't make it easier to survive this wave, moving heavy dirt doesn't help me and constant criticism just because they're used to treating me like this. What I'm probably doing wrong now is seeing my whole day or even week through bad moments. There's less of them, they're weaker and my system can deal with them quicker. Still, a wave plays on our insecurities mercilessly and mine is obviously experiencing the uncomfortable. I can never find my place, among people 18-30 I feel too uptight and unexperienced, among older ones I may relate mindset wise, but am out of place with everything else. Trying not to dwell on whether I feel sane or lonely. As long as no panic attack occurs, I shouldn't face too much upset from now on. Lots of appreciation, Sonia. I'm especially grateful for a good listener since I don't have many others in real life.

 

3 hours ago, Kaylaq said:

Hang in there! As you have told us before, …stay out of the rumination cycle as much as possible. Don’t over analyze, …focus on good self care and healing activities! You have given us so much, now it’s time to focus on your healing steps! Lots of self love , patience & compassion!! 
💪💪🥰🥰

Yes, I'm not feeling well and my mood clearly calls for cautiousness, so I should at least refrain from adding anticipatory anxiety. It was a few minutes when I was scared of psychosis, but the symptoms are out of my control anyways. Oddly enough I was very distracted, I had to catch a dog, bury a hen, shovel dirt, move strawberries and actually did quite a lot on my devices. Maybe that's why tinnitus, excess phosphenes and hot head plague me, it's a lot of blood in the brain area cause it deals with my activities, wave messing with my system and somehow rumminations still run in the background. Gotta fix my sleep, ease the tempo and tell my parents I'm not in good shape for heavy tasks in a cold garden. This is actually quite promising wave, still no critical point that would leave me traumatized as it was the case during previous waves. I survived a whole week without a serious loss of grip on my situation. I wasn't even using relaxation podcasts since that panic attack, so there might be a very good improvement soon when I make up for lost sleep and fix my perspective. Within 7 weeks a lot can change and if my windows can last up to a full week and waves being more bearable, that could be merely 4 or 5 waves lasting 2-4 days until I reach half-year recovery milestone. Thank you for being there for me each time, I always feel more positive reading your words!

[Sonia009]

@BaccatePlayerPerhaps your parents think they are helping you take your mind off your problems by involving you in outdoor chores. Unfortunately they do not understand a sensitized mind unless they have experienced it themselves. People have suggested to me that I should go out more socially, take a long holiday etc, little do they know how traumatizing this type of talk is to me. Of course I would love to do those things but not in my current state of mind or physical state for that matter. 

Just do what you can, day by day, or hour by hour even. I have healed before from my first withdrawal so it can be done. It can't be rushed unfortunately but you have the strength of character to get through this.🙏😊

 

 

 

[BaccatePlayer]

3 hours ago, Sonia009 said:

@BaccatePlayerPerhaps your parents think they are helping you take your mind off your problems by involving you in outdoor chores. Unfortunately they do not understand a sensitized mind unless they have experienced it themselves. People have suggested to me that I should go out more socially, take a long holiday etc, little do they know how traumatizing this type of talk is to me. Of course I would love to do those things but not in my current state of mind or physical state for that matter. 

Just do what you can, day by day, or hour by hour even. I have healed before from my first withdrawal so it can be done. It can't be rushed unfortunately but you have the strength of character to get through this.🙏😊

They think I'm not putting in enough effort and try to downplay my symptoms by comparing them to their casual moods. There's definitely a struggle to find stability today. I feel mood shifts ranging from feeling insane, to being irritated by everything, to anxious, to sexually aroused — all too intense, out of place, and randomly changing. Definitely not enough strength to push a wheelbarrow, but probably more than enough if the alternative is to handle arguments again.

 

I've observed those who have recovered still worrying about their emotions and feelings. To be honest, as long as my emotions are felt normally and not as "symptoms" (because currently, they feel like an intense, electrical, chemical overload that seems to come out of nowhere, signaling who knows what, and feeling more like brain damage than any rational experience), I wouldn't mind. However, what I do fear is catching another illness, having an accident, or getting into a situation where I'm administered something that causes further destabilization unnecessarily. Reading stories about people who recovered and then took an antibiotic months later, only to fall back into the same nightmare, doesn't help. This is a real concern for both now and the future.

 

When I asked my friends, they suggested using alprazolam, lorazepam, or clonazepam during the worst times. But there's no way that's ever happening; I've become scared of medication for life. I'm an extremely sensitive and fragile person, yet I fall into inertia during moments of feeling like "I can't handle this." Therefore, if I've made it this far without substances, I believe I should continue to abstain. One pill can cause damage for months, but a wave, even with a panic attack, lasts two weeks at the absolute worst, and it should keep improving. I avoid mosquito sprays and cigarette smoke out of fear, let alone actively taking substances. My symptoms make my entire body tense, feeling "too full" or "overwhelmed," as if my system is naturally signaling it doesn't want any additional strain at the moment. I can't even imagine how terrible a panic attack would be if I were on benzodiazepines. However, I do see improvement, while many who use ad hoc medications report worsening conditions. Recovery from immediate adverse reactions seems to average between 3-18 months, so, considering my promising situation, I just need to find ways to manage cognition and mood issues without them obstructing my progress. I'm accustomed to feeling on the verge of collapse, but new symptoms always trigger an intuitive panic until I experience them and understand their effects.

 

This response ended up being longer than intended. It reminds me of a decade ago when my English teacher would say, "Girls, there's a minimum word count for essays for a reason... Tom, I appreciate your effort to make it shorter this time, but could you try to condense it further next week?" after returning tests. So, it seems I just can't keep it brief. Huge thanks to you, Sonia. I hope you can return to your beloved activities soon. I understand how limitations can be traumatizing and activating. Seeing so much life outside, with everyone moving on without noticing us, and never being able to imagine what we're going through, feels worse than death. And it's not as if lying in bed all day would alleviate the symptoms. You've been one of my most helpful angels on this journey, so if you ever need anything, feel free to reach out at any time. Even after I heal, I want to support my circle of antidepressant survivors, as even one more understanding soul makes a significant difference. 

[Sonia009]

17 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

They think I'm not putting in enough effort and try to downplay my symptoms by comparing them to their casual moods. There's definitely a struggle to find stability today. I feel mood shifts ranging from feeling insane, to being irritated by everything, to anxious, to sexually aroused — all too intense, out of place, and randomly changing. Definitely not enough strength to push a wheelbarrow, but probably more than enough if the alternative is to handle arguments again.

 

I've observed those who have recovered still worrying about their emotions and feelings. To be honest, as long as my emotions are felt normally and not as "symptoms" (because currently, they feel like an intense, electrical, chemical overload that seems to come out of nowhere, signaling who knows what, and feeling more like brain damage than any rational experience), I wouldn't mind. However, what I do fear is catching another illness, having an accident, or getting into a situation where I'm administered something that causes further destabilization unnecessarily. Reading stories about people who recovered and then took an antibiotic months later, only to fall back into the same nightmare, doesn't help. This is a real concern for both now and the future.

 

When I asked my friends, they suggested using alprazolam, lorazepam, or clonazepam during the worst times. But there's no way that's ever happening; I've become scared of medication for life. I'm an extremely sensitive and fragile person, yet I fall into inertia during moments of feeling like "I can't handle this." Therefore, if I've made it this far without substances, I believe I should continue to abstain. One pill can cause damage for months, but a wave, even with a panic attack, lasts two weeks at the absolute worst, and it should keep improving. I avoid mosquito sprays and cigarette smoke out of fear, let alone actively taking substances. My symptoms make my entire body tense, feeling "too full" or "overwhelmed," as if my system is naturally signaling it doesn't want any additional strain at the moment. I can't even imagine how terrible a panic attack would be if I were on benzodiazepines. However, I do see improvement, while many who use ad hoc medications report worsening conditions. Recovery from immediate adverse reactions seems to average between 3-18 months, so, considering my promising situation, I just need to find ways to manage cognition and mood issues without them obstructing my progress. I'm accustomed to feeling on the verge of collapse, but new symptoms always trigger an intuitive panic until I experience them and understand their effects.

 

This response ended up being longer than intended. It reminds me of a decade ago when my English teacher would say, "Girls, there's a minimum word count for essays for a reason... Tom, I appreciate your effort to make it shorter this time, but could you try to condense it further next week?" after returning tests. So, it seems I just can't keep it brief. Huge thanks to you, Sonia. I hope you can return to your beloved activities soon. I understand how limitations can be traumatizing and activating. Seeing so much life outside, with everyone moving on without noticing us, and never being able to imagine what we're going through, feels worse than death. And it's not as if lying in bed all day would alleviate the symptoms. You've been one of my most helpful angels on this journey, so if you ever need anything, feel free to reach out at any time. Even after I heal, I want to support my circle of antidepressant survivors, as even one more understanding soul makes a significant difference. 

@BaccatePlayerI have noticed that you tend to write a lot of stuff, HaHa, but hey, that's you, just do what you have to do. You always give good advice to people and I know it's appreciated. Sorry you're still struggling, wish I could offer words of wisdom but I think you already have things figured out, it's just a waiting game unfortunately. I too was looking at my neighbours going about their business today wishing I could do the same, we will one day. I'm not going to put a time line on my recovery, it will happen, the first time I came out of withdrawal it seemed to happen almost unnoticed. I'm so annoyed that I've done this to myself a second time. So hey, me too, if you ever want to reach out I'm here.

🙏🙂

[Kaylaq]

It’s hard to not get caught up in the moods, panic, etc, that shift from hour to hour, so sorry for your intense wave! 😣  

I appreciate your writing as you give yourself and us great hope! 
sending you strength, courage & compassion to get through this excruciating journey. 
💪💪🥰🥰

[Catwoman73]

On 4/25/2024 at 11:32 AM, BaccatePlayer said:

I'm starting to fall back to my old pattern. I became more social because isolation only feeds rumminations and panic. Problem is, I can't stand people having boundaries. This always feels like ultimate rejection. I don't know why I had always been so fluid with it, believing that others can do anything with me and that I can do so with them too. Whenever I hear accusations that I stopped on someone's line, that someone hides something from me or any form of silence treatment, I give up on people right away. Others have so much life to share, relationships, experiences and ideas while I have nothing and feel like no one among them. Always forced, tolerated and wierd. It was never a problem as long as I remained alone, but facing people shows how I overvalue myself and demand way too much attention. That's when I feel most mentally ill because my instant reactions are always going from one extreme to another. A wave is a very bad time to dwell on it, so I'll leave it for now, but it's actually a good sign that I start thinking like myself even if it's being a generally horrible person. I may be one of those who are only comfortable when they have some "home sweet home" suffering. Definitelly not the immediate adverse reaction I'm dealing with now, but my actual struggles. Symptoms are like "how will I even survive this?" but my toxic traits are at least making me suffer on my own conditions. Where the entitled kid has a voice, symptoms panic goes silent.

Hi @BaccatePlayer- I don't have the focus or ability to read all your posts right from the beginning, but I just wanted to say that I think you're doing great.  It may not feel like it, but you're riding this out the best way you can, and you seem to have great introspection into your own behaviours.  This will take you far!

 

I was curious if you are talking to a therapist at all?  I've found it extremely helpful to find a fantastic therapist.  The key there is being brutally open and honest with them.  We can't deal with what we don't acknowledge, right?  Reading the above paragraph makes me feel great sympathy for you.  Fear of rejection, feeling like you have nothing to offer others, deep insecurities- these things don't come from nowhere.  Not knowing you at all, I would guess that you've suffered great hurt at some point (maybe many points) in your life, and has led you down this path. Dealing with those root causes is hard, but so necessary to be healthy in the long term.  

 

Sending you lots of love and hugs- this is such a hard journey, but I think we will all be better for it in the long run! ❤️‍🩹

[Gonzo]

@Catwoman73 I agree that a good therapist can be very helpful to deal with all these issues but I suggest giving guidelines for finding that kind of therapist. Many, many therapists simply not a good source of support and understanding but the opposite. Finding a good therapist can be like playing Russian roulette. My last therapist was a social security therapist, he told me that he knew very few good therapists (considering himself one of the good ones). Anyway, just my two cents. When we are in such vulnerable mental and emotional states, overwhelmed, confused, being in a room with a bossy, robotic, insensitive and narcissistic therapist is the last thing we need. We need to make a huge mental and emotional effort to reveal our deepest issues to these people so it's paramount that we ensure that the effort pays off, if not, it can make us regress, that's why I gave up on therapy a year and half ago, it wasn't worth it for me. But I'm glad it's working for you and I hope it does for others here.

[Catwoman73]

56 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

@Catwoman73 I agree that a good therapist can be very helpful to deal with all these issues but I suggest giving guidelines for finding that kind of therapist. Many, many therapists simply not a good source of support and understanding but the opposite. Finding a good therapist can be like playing Russian roulette. My last therapist was a social security therapist, he told me that he knew very few good therapists (considering himself one of the good ones). Anyway, just my two cents. When we are in such vulnerable mental and emotional states, overwhelmed, confused, being in a room with a bossy, robotic, insensitive and narcissistic therapist is the last thing we need. We need to make a huge mental and emotional effort to reveal our deepest issues to these people so it's paramount that we ensure that the effort pays off, if not, it can make us regress, that's why I gave up on therapy a year and half ago, it wasn't worth it for me. But I'm glad it's working for you and I hope it does for others here.

I'm sorry that's been your experience.  I suppose I was lucky- I found my therapist before I even started tapering, so that relationship was well established when I started.  And I totally agree- finding a good one is like finding a needle in a haystack.  I interviewed more than my share of ones that I didn't click with before finding mine.  I know it can be a tough time during withdrawal to find someone- the only reason I brought it up here is because BaccatePlayer does seem to be doing a lot of looking inward already, and having a guide can be helpful. 

 

In terms of guidelines/how I found her- I first did a bit of research on what type of therapy I wanted to pursue, because there are soooo many different types out there.  I decided on EMDR and Internal Family Systems, as I had a lot of trauma in my background, and both of those are super helpful for trauma.  Then I took to interviewing therapists- I would only even bother with ones that offer a free consultation- those are the ones that seem have a good understanding that not all therapists are going to click with everyone, and we should be able to make an informed decision for ourselves before having to shell out money for a service.  During that process I just knew I found the person that I could talk to- it just felt right.  She was calm and absolutely non-judgemental, all while being professional.  She also said that her fee was negotiable, if needed... that was huge- it seemed she really did want to help me, and wasn't just trying to get through her day for a pay check. 

[Gonzo]

Good guidelines!👍🏻

[BaccatePlayer]

On 4/27/2024 at 4:25 PM, Sonia009 said:

@BaccatePlayerI have noticed that you tend to write a lot of stuff, HaHa, but hey, that's you, just do what you have to do. You always give good advice to people and I know it's appreciated. Sorry you're still struggling, wish I could offer words of wisdom but I think you already have things figured out, it's just a waiting game unfortunately. I too was looking at my neighbours going about their business today wishing I could do the same, we will one day. I'm not going to put a time line on my recovery, it will happen, the first time I came out of withdrawal it seemed to happen almost unnoticed. I'm so annoyed that I've done this to myself a second time. So hey, me too, if you ever want to reach out I'm here.

🙏🙂

I went to church, and some violent agitation hit me. I felt as if a panic attack was about to start, but I managed to recompose myself. I came back home and knew I was still vulnerable because I struggled to focus on what I was looking at, felt like I was losing connection to my family, and experienced some internal panic bouncing inside. I spent most of the day distracted by watching sports, but I fell into a shallow sleep in the meantime. My brain is under serious load, it seems. The back of my eyes pinches, I feel a headband sensation, brain burning, and ear popping. I felt oddly dizzy, my legs felt a lot lighter as if I were losing balance, and I was reacting to triggers during conversations with impatience. I knew it would be better to stay away from thinking today. The panic attack two weeks ago seems to have erased a lot of my progress. I'm very fragile now and got scared of developing psychosis. Seriously, if I'm asking if I'll be able to talk with sense and control my body at this point, then I'm back to day one worries. I told myself this is not a good moment for such thoughts and that the wave is just making me assume the worst. The panic is very brutal, literally like being on the edge of bursting into intense desperation, ultimately shaking the grates of a cage screaming to let me go.

 

If I were to give advice to someone who wrote what I just did, I would suggest that he needs to focus on managing his panic and continue reinforcing the belief that he is sane, while engaging more with real life and giving it more time. Some extra rest might also be beneficial, considering our brains are working to repair our central nervous system while also maintaining our vital functions. I try to adopt a broader perspective, but such thinking triggers depersonalization, so I just remind myself that I will feel better in a few days since it always ends up that way, even when it seems unlikely. You're such a heroic angel, Sonia. Surviving once was already a challenge, and now you're facing it again. I'll remind myself that if you made it through, I can too, with enough time. I don't know why I'm so fixated on recovering now, but I guess it's the panic that keeps me in such a desperate mood. I felt like I had better control over it before the panic attack. I hope it doesn't hinder my recovery. A panic attack seems to be as taxing as a workout, sex, or even medication. It would be unfortunate if it destabilized me so much, since it's not my fault I experienced that.

 

On 4/27/2024 at 5:57 PM, Kaylaq said:

It’s hard to not get caught up in the moods, panic, etc, that shift from hour to hour, so sorry for your intense wave! 😣  

I appreciate your writing as you give yourself and us great hope! 
sending you strength, courage & compassion to get through this excruciating journey. 
💪💪🥰🥰

I appreciate that, Kayla. You are also very helpful, and I'm going to try out the healing frequencies for sleep you mentioned on Dahlia's thread. I can be rational and keep notes on how it all is, but we're just humans. It's not our fault we give in to our moods. It's just that moods during recovery can be so frightening and traumatizing that life doesn't feel the same anymore. At least we have each other here. Thank you for your understanding and kindness. I need to tap into more resilience and perspective. Self-care and distractions have pulled me out of more than one crisis already, so I've got to keep going. You made it through crises too, and you're still giving off so much positivity around here. It means a lot to me since my family is 70% on the melancholic side and 30% on the choleric side, so I rarely hear anything uplifting in my life.

[Sonia009]

54 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

I went to church, and some violent agitation hit me. I felt as if a panic attack was about to start, but I managed to recompose myself. I came back home and knew I was still vulnerable because I struggled to focus on what I was looking at, felt like I was losing connection to my family, and experienced some internal panic bouncing inside. I spent most of the day distracted by watching sports, but I fell into a shallow sleep in the meantime. My brain is under serious load, it seems. The back of my eyes pinches, I feel a headband sensation, brain burning, and ear popping. I felt oddly dizzy, my legs felt a lot lighter as if I were losing balance, and I was reacting to triggers during conversations with impatience. I knew it would be better to stay away from thinking today. The panic attack two weeks ago seems to have erased a lot of my progress. I'm very fragile now and got scared of developing psychosis. Seriously, if I'm asking if I'll be able to talk with sense and control my body at this point, then I'm back to day one worries. I told myself this is not a good moment for such thoughts and that the wave is just making me assume the worst. The panic is very brutal, literally like being on the edge of bursting into intense desperation, ultimately shaking the grates of a cage screaming to let me go.

 

If I were to give advice to someone who wrote what I just did, I would suggest that he needs to focus on managing his panic and continue reinforcing the belief that he is sane, while engaging more with real life and giving it more time. Some extra rest might also be beneficial, considering our brains are working to repair our central nervous system while also maintaining our vital functions. I try to adopt a broader perspective, but such thinking triggers depersonalization, so I just remind myself that I will feel better in a few days since it always ends up that way, even when it seems unlikely. You're such a heroic angel, Sonia. Surviving once was already a challenge, and now you're facing it again. I'll remind myself that if you made it through, I can too, with enough time. I don't know why I'm so fixated on recovering now, but I guess it's the panic that keeps me in such a desperate mood. I felt like I had better control over it before the panic attack. I hope it doesn't hinder my recovery. A panic attack seems to be as taxing as a workout, sex, or even medication. It would be unfortunate if it destabilized me so much, since it's not my fault I experienced that.

 

I appreciate that, Kayla. You are also very helpful, and I'm going to try out the healing frequencies for sleep you mentioned on Dahlia's thread. I can be rational and keep notes on how it all is, but we're just humans. It's not our fault we give in to our moods. It's just that moods during recovery can be so frightening and traumatizing that life doesn't feel the same anymore. At least we have each other here. Thank you for your understanding and kindness. I need to tap into more resilience and perspective. Self-care and distractions have pulled me out of more than one crisis already, so I've got to keep going. You made it through crises too, and you're still giving off so much positivity around here. It means a lot to me since my family is 70% on the melancholic side and 30% on the choleric side, so I rarely hear anything uplifting in my life.

@BaccatePlayer I would find going somewhere like Church, or a theatre or a supermarket even these days very stressful and the very reason I don't go is because I'm afraid of losing control and having a panic attack such as you described. You mentioned that you felt the panic continued whilst at home after returning from Church.  I listed to one of Dr Mark Horowitz ' videos where he described his withdrawal symptoms and one was waking up in a state of panic that continued to occur into the evenings.

During my first withdrawal I attended a funeral, in the service we had to stand to sing a hymn and I had to hold on to the seat in front of me because my balance was off, my legs turned to jelly. It happens to me sometimes now if I'm talking to someone, it becomes too much for me to listen and I try hard to keep it brief, I find myself in a state of derealisation and I  cannot wait for them to leave. This is not normally me so I can only assume it's anxiety (fight of flight) caused by my sensitized nervous system and withdrawal. I'm getting anxiety and some depression now that I never experienced before that I put down to part of the withdrawal process. It messes with our minds and will have us believe that we are going insane sometimes but we have to keep a cool head and remind ourselves that our brains are healing and these are symptoms of the healing process. This is what I keep telling myself when I think I'm losing it sometimes because I've found those feelings very scary.

You always seem to understand what it is you are experiencing and you have answered your own questions in your post and have given valid explanations for your symptoms. This sounds me like someone of sound mind and rational thinking.

I wish I could be of more help to you but you are far more knowledgeable with this than I am. Always here to listen. 🙏😊

[Kaylaq]

🙏🏻💪💪🥰🥰

[BaccatePlayer]

On 4/27/2024 at 7:45 PM, Catwoman73 said:

Hi @BaccatePlayer- I don't have the focus or ability to read all your posts right from the beginning, but I just wanted to say that I think you're doing great.  It may not feel like it, but you're riding this out the best way you can, and you seem to have great introspection into your own behaviours.  This will take you far!

 

I was curious if you are talking to a therapist at all?  I've found it extremely helpful to find a fantastic therapist.  The key there is being brutally open and honest with them.  We can't deal with what we don't acknowledge, right?  Reading the above paragraph makes me feel great sympathy for you.  Fear of rejection, feeling like you have nothing to offer others, deep insecurities- these things don't come from nowhere.  Not knowing you at all, I would guess that you've suffered great hurt at some point (maybe many points) in your life, and has led you down this path. Dealing with those root causes is hard, but so necessary to be healthy in the long term.  

 

Sending you lots of love and hugs- this is such a hard journey, but I think we will all be better for it in the long run! ❤️‍🩹

Hello! I'm glad you reached out. Yes, I produce a lot of text, and it's probably not relaxing for anyone struggling with symptoms. This began with my desire to do something about my condition. I tried to observe patterns in what moderators usually suggest, why they think in a certain way, and how to make it useful for myself and anyone else suffering here. Self-care, combined with abstaining from substances, ruminations, or unnecessary stress, creates optimal circumstances for healing, from what I see. I try to assure everyone that if they take care of that, the whole experience is only as bad as it really has to be.

 

I attended systemic therapy in 2021 for half a year and later, CBT therapy in 2023. I was never the type to hide anything, but this was always discouraged by my parents. Besides being bullied at school, ostracized by others, and abused by my dad, I didn't have many upsets in life. Limerence likely stems from my unrealistic desires for domination, possession, and entitlement. It's not even triggered by an actual event, just my self-centered addiction to fantasy. I think the way to overcome it might be the same as dealing with recovery from meds: desensitizing myself by not reacting to these triggers and doing what's right.

 

22 hours ago, Gonzo said:

@Catwoman73 I agree that a good therapist can be very helpful to deal with all these issues but I suggest giving guidelines for finding that kind of therapist. Many, many therapists simply not a good source of support and understanding but the opposite. Finding a good therapist can be like playing Russian roulette. My last therapist was a social security therapist, he told me that he knew very few good therapists (considering himself one of the good ones). Anyway, just my two cents. When we are in such vulnerable mental and emotional states, overwhelmed, confused, being in a room with a bossy, robotic, insensitive and narcissistic therapist is the last thing we need. We need to make a huge mental and emotional effort to reveal our deepest issues to these people so it's paramount that we ensure that the effort pays off, if not, it can make us regress, that's why I gave up on therapy a year and half ago, it wasn't worth it for me. But I'm glad it's working for you and I hope it does for others here.

My first therapist was highly focused on listening to me. However, this approach made me treat therapy as a chore, something I just had to get through. I attended sessions with fear, feeling a heavy responsibility on myself. My parents noticed that I wasn't becoming more assertive or happier, and all my issues remained unchanged. They concluded that it wasn't worth the expense, believing I was more intelligent than my therapist. They thought that no one was prepared for a case like mine and that professionals only began to learn upon encountering someone like me.

 

The next therapist I saw specialized in psychotrauma and incorporated a lot of CBT homework. She was much warmer and even suggested I come in less frequently since I was making progress. However, this became the same trap I had encountered with my teachers and others. By learning to respond in specific ways, such as supporting people here, I remained in a dependent and passive position, which was the root of the problem. When I noticed someone responded well to me repeating and paraphrasing their ideas, I did it more and more. It reached a point where I would express my feelings and then immediately propose a solution that I knew my therapist would approve of, to avoid disappointing her. She took this as a sign that I was handling everything well and eventually declared she could no longer help me if I had progressed so much. It's clear to me that a fearful person will act obediently in the presence of authority, and to this day, I still view every adult as an authority figure.

 

21 hours ago, Catwoman73 said:

I'm sorry that's been your experience.  I suppose I was lucky- I found my therapist before I even started tapering, so that relationship was well established when I started.  And I totally agree- finding a good one is like finding a needle in a haystack.  I interviewed more than my share of ones that I didn't click with before finding mine.  I know it can be a tough time during withdrawal to find someone- the only reason I brought it up here is because BaccatePlayer does seem to be doing a lot of looking inward already, and having a guide can be helpful. 

 

In terms of guidelines/how I found her- I first did a bit of research on what type of therapy I wanted to pursue, because there are soooo many different types out there.  I decided on EMDR and Internal Family Systems, as I had a lot of trauma in my background, and both of those are super helpful for trauma.  Then I took to interviewing therapists- I would only even bother with ones that offer a free consultation- those are the ones that seem have a good understanding that not all therapists are going to click with everyone, and we should be able to make an informed decision for ourselves before having to shell out money for a service.  During that process I just knew I found the person that I could talk to- it just felt right.  She was calm and absolutely non-judgemental, all while being professional.  She also said that her fee was negotiable, if needed... that was huge- it seemed she really did want to help me, and wasn't just trying to get through her day for a pay check. 

The therapist tried EMDR on me, but it didn't seem to work. When I was browsing the "Disorders of Personality" book by Millon, I found myself in the "paraphrenic" case. I was always sure there was a reactive paranoid structure in my personality, but I couldn't figure out why I had become so anxious and timid. The description of how paranoids decompensate into paraphrenics was literally a eureka moment for me. Such issues go hand in hand with what I experience during this recovery: knowing what I'm feeling, knowing how to respond to it, knowing what the right thing to do is, but also... knowing this is unfairly uncomfortable and not being able to use any lifeline while being in the moment. It'd really be just that: getting into the uncomfortable without blaming or twisting reality. That'd solve pretty much every issue I have. Thank you for your insight; I appreciate it so much, being one of the youngest here.

21 hours ago, Gonzo said:

Good guidelines!👍🏻

Estoy de acuerdo. Simplemente no planeo buscar a un terapeuta hasta que me recupere al menos a un nivel manejable. 

[BaccatePlayer]

17 hours ago, Sonia009 said:

@BaccatePlayer I would find going somewhere like Church, or a theatre or a supermarket even these days very stressful and the very reason I don't go is because I'm afraid of losing control and having a panic attack such as you described. You mentioned that you felt the panic continued whilst at home after returning from Church.  I listed to one of Dr Mark Horowitz ' videos where he described his withdrawal symptoms and one was waking up in a state of panic that continued to occur into the evenings.

During my first withdrawal I attended a funeral, in the service we had to stand to sing a hymn and I had to hold on to the seat in front of me because my balance was off, my legs turned to jelly. It happens to me sometimes now if I'm talking to someone, it becomes too much for me to listen and I try hard to keep it brief, I find myself in a state of derealisation and I  cannot wait for them to leave. This is not normally me so I can only assume it's anxiety (fight of flight) caused by my sensitized nervous system and withdrawal. I'm getting anxiety and some depression now that I never experienced before that I put down to part of the withdrawal process. It messes with our minds and will have us believe that we are going insane sometimes but we have to keep a cool head and remind ourselves that our brains are healing and these are symptoms of the healing process. This is what I keep telling myself when I think I'm losing it sometimes because I've found those feelings very scary.

You always seem to understand what it is you are experiencing and you have answered your own questions in your post and have given valid explanations for your symptoms. This sounds me like someone of sound mind and rational thinking.

I wish I could be of more help to you but you are far more knowledgeable with this than I am. Always here to listen. 🙏😊

That was my attitude during the first month and largely the second one. I avoided doing and eating so many things. The problem is, this is exactly what reinforces panic attacks. I tried to use the acceptance method during my last one, but it was too powerful. It was altering my thoughts quicker than I could respond to them, and too many weird moods and sensations were taking place at once. I guess they decrease in frequency during recovery from meds if we're stabilizing anyways, but still, it was too unbearable and unexpected to simply stay there, not panic, and observe how it all happens. I think I didn't play this out terribly, but it would have been much easier if someone had guided me in the moment. I always just hide in my sleep, so my body only has so much work.

 

I think it's about combining a trauma response with the vulnerability of a wave. The first panic comes from realizing how weird, painful, and scary the new symptom is. Then we just try to survive it, waiting until it's over. Once we feel a bit better, another panic starts because we realize we were actually living it through. We are shocked and frightened that it happened without our consent and we couldn't control it. Then, there's anticipatory panic. We naturally try to understand and prevent it from happening again. It takes a while of feeling better to trust that these sensations aren't permanent. I view it as trauma because what I experienced yesterday was exactly the same as what I experienced during that panic attack. It was just a small part of it, but I wouldn't ever mistake it for anything else. This one was internally forced, but for any other case, I recommend postponing thinking about your symptoms until you're out of a wave. In such a vulnerable state, our thoughts lead to the most deterministic and dreadful conclusions, so revoking fresh wounds would only traumatize us further. 

 

I completely understand the feeling of losing balance and the sense that reality seems to be collapsing along with you. It's hard to believe it's a representation of panic, but that's what withdrawal can do. I hope these sensations slowly morph back into what they should feel like. I was panicking about not recognizing people, talking nonsense, being stuck in pain for hours, and watching how all these estranged thoughts evoke some out-of-this-world moods. Today, I'm looking at it as just a narrowing down of thoughts. The more we panic, the more our mind ignores the external world and focuses only on the symptoms. I think that's how DP/DR works: we can talk and act normally, but we're so deep in dream-like ruminations that we can't stop racing thoughts, and the focus on reality gets rejected by the brain until it processes all the worries.

 

One user wrote on the DP/DR topic that by experiencing symptoms, our brain gets the message to work on fixing them. That's what I hope for. I couldn't resonate with my family; they still try to guilt-trip me with "you have to live somehow," "different things happen in life, and you have to cope with yourself," "you survived, so it isn't as bad as you're portraying it." I guess my organism still handles it better than it could. So many people would give a lot to be able to mow the lawn like I just did. Being drug-free helps, and I need to keep it that way. I sometimes listen to Dr. Horowitz, Angie Peacock, and Lily Sais, but ultimately, I seem to know enough and have prepared myself as best as I could, so it really comes down to just being in this body, feeling those sensations, and having these thoughts. The most acute phase may really end soon for me; I can only be destabilized for so long, being on just one thyroid med day by day. I appreciate you taking the time to listen to me; it really opens up the world for me that panic would normally try to take me away from. 

 

13 hours ago, Kaylaq said:

🙏🏻💪💪🥰🥰

Thank you! That will be needed; it's already the seventeenth day of the wave. My WD normal is improving, but the burden still taxes me. I'm probably spending too much time reading other people's threads. I was worried about experiencing withdrawal symptoms months later... but withdrawal from what? A single dose? It seems like panic is playing tricks on me; I'm already destabilized, so the damage is already happening. I've never experienced psychosis, even under severe stress, so the chances are it won't develop in the future since my system handles symptoms more efficiently. After 4.5 months, I'm still facing such problems; I need to distance myself more from my issues.

[Catwoman73]

2 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Besides being bullied at school, ostracized by others, and abused by my dad, I didn't have many upsets in life. 

 

My first therapist was highly focused on listening to me. However, this approach made me treat therapy as a chore, something I just had to get through. I attended sessions with fear, feeling a heavy responsibility on myself. My parents noticed that I wasn't becoming more assertive or happier, and all my issues remained unchanged. They concluded that it wasn't worth the expense, believing I was more intelligent than my therapist. They thought that no one was prepared for a case like mine and that professionals only began to learn upon encountering someone like me.

 

The next therapist I saw specialized in psychotrauma and incorporated a lot of CBT homework. She was much warmer and even suggested I come in less frequently since I was making progress. However, this became the same trap I had encountered with my teachers and others. By learning to respond in specific ways, such as supporting people here, I remained in a dependent and passive position, which was the root of the problem. When I noticed someone responded well to me repeating and paraphrasing their ideas, I did it more and more. It reached a point where I would express my feelings and then immediately propose a solution that I knew my therapist would approve of, to avoid disappointing her. She took this as a sign that I was handling everything well and eventually declared she could no longer help me if I had progressed so much. It's clear to me that a fearful person will act obediently in the presence of authority, and to this day, I still view every adult as an authority figure.

 

The therapist tried EMDR on me, but it didn't seem to work. When I was browsing the "Disorders of Personality" book by Millon, I found myself in the "paraphrenic" case. I was always sure there was a reactive paranoid structure in my personality, but I couldn't figure out why I had become so anxious and timid. The description of how paranoids decompensate into paraphrenics was literally a eureka moment for me. Such issues go hand in hand with what I experience during this recovery: knowing what I'm feeling, knowing how to respond to it, knowing what the right thing to do is, but also... knowing this is unfairly uncomfortable and not being able to use any lifeline while being in the moment. It'd really be just that: getting into the uncomfortable without blaming or twisting reality. That'd solve pretty much every issue I have. Thank you for your insight; I appreciate it so much, being one of the youngest here.

Estoy de acuerdo. Simplemente no planeo buscar a un terapeuta hasta que me recupere al menos a un nivel manejable. 

Bullying and parental abuse is MORE than enough to cause trauma reactions and affect personality development.  For me- I ended up with extreme self doubt, bordering on self-hatred.  It was different for you.  But don't underestimate how much these things have impacted who you have become!

 

As for learning how to please your therapists... yes, I've been there lol.  I've done the same to so many therapists, I've lost count!  I now realize that I just wasn't really ready to face those deep issues- so I blamed and twisted reality too.  I'm in a very different place now, and I am over the twisting of my reality- it's time that I own the horrors that I have endured, and gain a deep understanding of how they shaped me.  And it's time that I learn to actually feel emotions, and feel with them like an adult.  I'm 51, and I only just got here.  I don't know how old you are, but you do say you are young... I wasn't at all ready to do the digging when I was young.  And that's ok- someday, you may approach therapy very differently.  You are very intelligent and insightful- I have no doubt that you will be ok in the long run.  

 

Sending you lots of support... I'm glad you're here!

[BaccatePlayer]

On 4/29/2024 at 6:47 PM, Catwoman73 said:

Bullying and parental abuse is MORE than enough to cause trauma reactions and affect personality development.  For me- I ended up with extreme self doubt, bordering on self-hatred.  It was different for you.  But don't underestimate how much these things have impacted who you have become!

 

As for learning how to please your therapists... yes, I've been there lol.  I've done the same to so many therapists, I've lost count!  I now realize that I just wasn't really ready to face those deep issues- so I blamed and twisted reality too.  I'm in a very different place now, and I am over the twisting of my reality- it's time that I own the horrors that I have endured, and gain a deep understanding of how they shaped me.  And it's time that I learn to actually feel emotions, and feel with them like an adult.  I'm 51, and I only just got here.  I don't know how old you are, but you do say you are young... I wasn't at all ready to do the digging when I was young.  And that's ok- someday, you may approach therapy very differently.  You are very intelligent and insightful- I have no doubt that you will be ok in the long run.  

 

Sending you lots of support... I'm glad you're here!

I agree; this is likely the source of my developing a father complex. These traumas are so common in my area that they've become almost normalized. I probably should undergo an actual desensitization phase for my insecurities in relationships and phobias. While I can assert myself and go many places, either during or after the experience, I dread/dislike the feelings it invokes, or I become bitter that I had to endure it without anyone recognizing how difficult it was for me. Facing issues requires a form of compliance in my case, and I have already established my value system in a way that sets me apart from common objectives. Perhaps that's why I'm so individualistic. It may not be my unique style, but essentially, I want to keep the parts of life where I see the risk of failing (such as college, work, creating a family, building a house, having friends) as separate from me, so I'm always free to put pressure on others while remaining invulnerable myself. I'm just 25, but I already understand my need to prove to myself that I can withstand anything. This recovery is my biggest challenge in life, but it is for many others as well. Thank you, and I also appreciate your contribution!

[BaccatePlayer]

On 2/18/2024 at 10:22 PM, BaccatePlayer said:

Obviously I am hopeful and don't even consider anything other than getting better and eventually recovering but if I'm about to find myself in situation when it's, let's say 26.04 and I'm posting about how I just had unbearable wave then it's five times more depressing than the worst scenario I am actually considering now and I'm not even under neuroemotions...

Both terribly wrong, and I haven't made much progress since then. The wave has been ongoing for 3 weeks now, and I'm tired of dealing with it. I've never been concerned about others' opinions of my experiences. If I were in pain throughout my life, I would continue to assert that I'm in pain, regardless of anyone suggesting I "shouldn't" feel that way. The ordeal of recovery is beyond mere "intense feelings" or "experiencing sensations"; these "symptoms" are pure suffering. Accepting the reality of my situation induces panic. Telling myself it's harmless only heightens the panic, as not even the thought of death offers solace in those moments. No level of validation can diminish the fact that this experience is excruciating.

 

Whether or not this is considered "normal" is irrelevant to me. I find it more comforting to label these experiences as "abnormal" and "unreal" because this is not how my body typically functions. Imagining that this is only temporary is challenging, but I refuse to become accustomed to my current state. The issues I face wouldn't occur in a healthy organism. Between 2014 and 2019, I experienced peak anxiety levels, yet my body never manifested anything close to what I'm enduring now. These days, I'm forced into calmness to avoid further torture, a stark contrast to my past constant state of anxiety and stress. Despite that, I wouldn't exchange a single day from my high school years for any day during my recovery. I now have to consciously avoid certain thoughts because, despite reassurances of their harmlessness, just acknowledging them triggers such severe panic and activation that it further traumatizes me, compounding stress and exacerbating both symptoms and the delay in returning to a normal mood.

[Gonzo]

I know what you mean @BaccatePlayer, I'm with you. I know it doesn't makes the pain go away but I really understand what you're saying and I want to say that you do a great job describing the experience. I hope the pain goes away soon, or better than that, that you master it.

[BaccatePlayer]

12 hours ago, Gonzo said:

I know what you mean @BaccatePlayer, I'm with you. I know it doesn't makes the pain go away but I really understand what you're saying and I want to say that you do a great job describing the experience. I hope the pain goes away soon, or better than that, that you master it.

I was frustrated while typing this, as if I already knew that the future would be challenging, yet aware that many factors could exacerbate it. I feel I've regressed to my state from two months ago, overwhelmed by too much chemically induced panic. By "chemically," I mean that the initial panic attack traumatized me, followed by worsening conditions due to insomnia and NE. I was on the verge of mastering my symptoms in the first two weeks of April, but now I find myself in a very unstable state, unable to take a break because there's always something triggering a reaction, irritating the receptors again.

 

As a troubleshooter, my solution is to give it more time without causing further disturbances (not that the panic attacks, insomnia, or NE are my fault), but I understand how difficult it is to escape that panic bubble. I thought I was past the phase of needing to remind myself that I'm safe, sane, and that this situation is temporary. However, the most intense panic induces mood swings that force me to forget these reassurances. I used to help others get through similar situations, but now I realize I can't assist myself as easily.

 

I remember how it works: every morning, my mind seems to need reminders because it's as if it has forgotten all these messages overnight. I've observed this in others here too. Such unnecessary panic stems from my body overreacting to every irregular breath, swallow, or cough; double-checking the logical source of what I heard or saw. I can't even read other people's threads now because phrases like "I somehow feel worse despite doing everything right" or "I'm afraid this will be permanent" trigger instant, sharp anxiety.

 

Some suggest magnesium, but I don't see it as a game-changer, more like a minor support. I appreciate you reaching out. I'm trying to find a positive, yet realistic, way to bring myself out of misery. I've been reading threads about managing symptoms here, and the problem is that these topics are mostly just discussions and descriptions of members' experiences, with only one or two phrases on how to actually cope. Most could really be summarized in a few bullet points, as I usually do when advising others. I guess I'm left with what I came up with from the beginning: get enough sleep, resist thinking about and engaging with difficult topics for now, maybe even take a break from reading others' posts, and with time, my distracted mind should slowly get back on the right track. The next wave or two may be very challenging as well, but there's no other option. I've already moved on from panicking about psychosis, akathisia, and ruminations last month, so it's just frustrating to realize I have to work hard to bounce back to the right path almost from square one again.

 

 

[Gonzo]

I agree with your procedure. These cycles are sadly very common, you have a nice week or day or two and then you feel extremely sh*tty and unsafe again. But you're facing it bravely, which is awesome. Time is your fried, I know we all want all this over as soon as possible but truth is it takes time to stabilize. I personally believe we suffered a chemical lobotomy and that our brain's frontal lobe is repairing itself, i.e. our complex cognitive processes are out of balance and we are gaining back control over them, and it's specially bad when we have a trauma story.