BaccatePlayer: Immediate adverse reaction to sertraline

[Sonia009]

@BaccatePlayerYou are very strong and I admire how you can rationalise everything, I don't know how you do that but it's very admirable. I wish I could think more logically and put things in perspective instead of worrying about everything and making everything seem worse.😊🙏

[mariamisery]

Thank you again . You are doing so well!. Basically. you are at the finish line. Are you headed into your fourth month of withdrawal?  From this new pattern I think I will only be getting waves for a while.   I am going into my third month. 

[BaccatePlayer]

26 minutes ago, Sonia009 said:

@BaccatePlayerYou are very strong and I admire how you can rationalise everything, I don't know how you do that but it's very admirable. I wish I could think more logically and put things in perspective instead of worrying about everything and making everything seem worse.😊🙏

Thank you, Sonia! I can see it either as me breaking through negative thought patterns as mstimc advised me (my reactions for the first weeks of February were extremely desperate and panicky, I reacted to the smallest symptoms with serious despair, spending whole days on crying, begging for it to finally end and believing I will be like that forever making things even worse) or... catastrophizing was a symptom and it just disappeared with time. Maybe it disappears when we are close to recovery and CNS becoming more efficient in dealing with negative thoughts? Whatever the reason, I'm surprised that I handle it like that recently too. It was really just that one day, yesterday when that depersonalization really left me very bitter and doubtful but I stopped having mood skewed this much by neuroemotions lately and I even managed to support some of you yesterday, so it's one of the improvements this month. If it's not determined solely by recovery, maybe you can try working on your thought patterns too. When you catch yourself with negative thinking, stop and ask yourself, what do you really feel and what do you really want to happen. I was at my aunt's house and was feeling bad, panicking about wanting to go home a month ago and suddenly I thought to myself "do you really want to leave or you just want to feel better now?" and I realized I may as well just decide to stop. I told myself I'm not waiting for any external change and kept going as I normally would. Then when I had symptoms I told myself "you just don't want to face pain and seek a way to avoid it" which then reminded me that symptoms don't lead anywhere. They change and change and change and I'm neither dying nor falling down nor talking gibberish. I didn't even vomit nor bleed at any point, so may as well refuse to pay attention to it. There are 0 reasons to believe I need to alter anything. I don't need to get reassurance from others to survive because it's just mood. If I stay alone during a wave, it will suck more but I would feel the same symptoms in the car, at home or in the garden. Nobody can take away headache from me, so I can't fixate on it. Symptoms are being felt, but are not there. I was afraid if I go somewhere I can collapse or have an attack and who's gonna rescue me? Answer is: no one. Because everytime, even in worst moments it was just me being there and living until next day. It's not even visible unless I start panicking and bothering people. I used to wonder about every new wierd feeling but when you look at it closer it's either mental agitation which runs panic (very common, phones and current life tempo, multitasking, all this promotes overstimulation) or a pain that will pass with time. The moment I'm typing this I feel empty, like losing indentity in my thoughts, maybe low-key depersonalized. I just keep typing and don't try to realize this with too strong awareness because this simply isn't to be validated. It's a mood. It won't be like that tommorow and it wasn't like that before. I could panic and wonder "oh, how can one even feel like that? I'm trapped, I won't recover", but this will do nothing. I trust that I wrote my honest thoughts now and my self-preservation instinct will not let me harm myself or go crazy now. I can go downstairs and my mom would hear something completely logical from me even if I feel close to insane. Even moreso, it can happen again and my reaction will still need to be simple flowing with it. Just like I can't turn off tinnitus now, I won't change my mood at whim. Think of your symptoms as different dimension that invaded you, but you being in control to give the microphone to your real govering mindset.

[BaccatePlayer]

37 minutes ago, mariamisery said:

Thank you again . You are doing so well!. Basically. you are at the finish line. Are you headed into your fourth month of withdrawal?  From this new pattern I think I will only be getting waves for a while.   I am going into my third month. 

I really hope so. Mood is most often unaffected, brain burning downgraded into spot headaches, anxiety and impending doom panic melted into annoyance and impatience, flashes almost gone, tinnitus significantly lessened, rumminations only momentary and not dragging endlessly. My CNS is still very weak now, it won't accept much burden, I have to prepare myself for around half year cautiousness. I'm not into alcohol or meds, but stacking working out with sex and overstimulation with screens or rumminations may be taxing. Four months mark is 16.04 for me. Exactly on my mom's namesday. I think third and fourth month are still challenging, but it's usually fifth and sixth month when the most acute phase people report has faded. I think our recovery time may be similair and not very long because we managed to stop meds altogether unlike some unlucky older users who were unaware at the time and dragged into experiments by doctors.

[Sonia009]

14 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Thank you, Sonia! I can see it either as me breaking through negative thought patterns as mstimc advised me (my reactions for the first weeks of February were extremely desperate and panicky, I reacted to the smallest symptoms with serious despair, spending whole days on crying, begging for it to finally end and believing I will be like that forever making things even worse) or... catastrophizing was a symptom and it just disappeared with time. Maybe it disappears when we are close to recovery and CNS becoming more efficient in dealing with negative thoughts? Whatever the reason, I'm surprised that I handle it like that recently too. It was really just that one day, yesterday when that depersonalization really left me very bitter and doubtful but I stopped having mood skewed this much by neuroemotions lately and I even managed to support some of you yesterday, so it's one of the improvements this month. If it's not determined solely by recovery, maybe you can try working on your thought patterns too. When you catch yourself with negative thinking, stop and ask yourself, what do you really feel and what do you really want to happen. I was at my aunt's house and was feeling bad, panicking about wanting to go home a month ago and suddenly I thought to myself "do you really want to leave or you just want to feel better now?" and I realized I may as well just decide to stop. I told myself I'm not waiting for any external change and kept going as I normally would. Then when I had symptoms I told myself "you just don't want to face pain and seek a way to avoid it" which then reminded me that symptoms don't lead anywhere. They change and change and change and I'm neither dying nor falling down nor talking gibberish. I didn't even vomit nor bleed at any point, so may as well refuse to pay attention to it. There are 0 reasons to believe I need to alter anything. I don't need to get reassurance from others to survive because it's just mood. If I stay alone during a wave, it will suck more but I would feel the same symptoms in the car, at home or in the garden. Nobody can take away headache from me, so I can't fixate on it. Symptoms are being felt, but are not there. I was afraid if I go somewhere I can collapse or have an attack and who's gonna rescue me? Answer is: no one. Because everytime, even in worst moments it was just me being there and living until next day. It's not even visible unless I start panicking and bothering people. I used to wonder about every new wierd feeling but when you look at it closer it's either mental agitation which runs panic (very common, phones and current life tempo, multitasking, all this promotes overstimulation) or a pain that will pass with time. The moment I'm typing this I feel empty, like losing indentity in my thoughts, maybe low-key depersonalized. I just keep typing and don't try to realize this with too strong awareness because this simply isn't to be validated. It's a mood. It won't be like that tommorow and it wasn't like that before. I could panic and wonder "oh, how can one even feel like that? I'm trapped, I won't recover", but this will do nothing. I trust that I wrote my honest thoughts now and my self-preservation instinct will not let me harm myself or go crazy now. I can go downstairs and my mom would hear something completely logical from me even if I feel close to insane. Even moreso, it can happen again and my reaction will still need to be simple flowing with it. Just like I can't turn off tinnitus now, I won't change my mood at whim. Think of your symptoms as different dimension that invaded you, but you being in control to give the microphone to your real govering mindset.

@BaccatePlayerMuch of what you say resonates with me and you have given me a lot of food for thought, thank you. I will make a conscientious effort to change my mindset because what you say makes so much sense. How you worked all of that out by yourself is awesome.😊🙏

[mariamisery]

I hope imy CNS does it better going into my third month. Please let me have some windows!!! Feels like I am about to loose my mind. I don't really watch television. I thought that the length of time and how much medicine you tzook determines the recovery time. Is this the norm that it takes almost 6 months to recover no matter what? Or this is basically  for the acute people.  

Edited March 18 by mariamisery
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[BaccatePlayer]

12 minutes ago, Sonia009 said:

@BaccatePlayerMuch of what you say resonates with me and you have given me a lot of food for thought, thank you. I will make a conscientious effort to change my mindset because what you say makes so much sense. How you worked all of that out by yourself is awesome.😊🙏

I wish we all develop really strong mindset that will help us endure whatever symptoms throw at us. You can even start by recording your own voice telling your wave-self what you really think and play it during moments of doubt. I did that but didn't even have to use it because I had that all in mind the whole time. I also use the "if everything fails, you can always go to bed regardless of time", but I still managed to survive last wave without it.

 

8 minutes ago, mariamisery said:

I hope imy CNS does it better going into my third month. Please let me have some windows!!! Feels like I am about to loose my mind. I don't really watch television. I thought that the length of time and how much medicine you tzook determines the recovery time. Is this the norm that it takes almost 6 months to recover no matter what? Or this is basically  for the acute people.  

Literally had similair wishes a month ago. Well, I've seen people with various drug histories and lengths of recovery and... it seems random. Obviously those who mess with other meds in the meantime usually struggle longer, but remember that we have clear cases: there's nothing we can do better than what we're doing now. You mean minimum 6 months? It's more that there's the withdrawal and there's the withdrawal. One is what people on reddit talk about and what doctors think. It lasts shorter and isn't as severe. Then there's the withdrawal we're dealing with here. This one is incredibly severe and I just barely see anyone talking about less than half a year. It's iatrogenic injury, it's not just some neurotransmitters fluctuation or relapse of symptoms. Go to hospital and doctors would keep examinating your symptoms, maybe even failing to connect it with psychotropes altogether. That's why I didn't make an account here right away, but now I see it is this kind of withdrawal and we're sadly the acute cases. I don't know how long it will last for us, I wish I could tell you something like 5-7 months, but I really can't tell. The ending is believed to be "windows becoming reality and next wave never coming" - based on that, quite a bit is ahead of me yet. The thing is there comes a time where you can tell yourself "alright, this is at least bearable" and that's what I'm waiting for because getting up, coping with symptoms until going to sleep again only to face the same reality the next day is just exhausting. You know that. And you, on top of that are in the phase of what I call "dying hope". You wake up, feel like waking up in a nightmare, slowly catch some hope throughout the day, go sleep and wake up in exactly the same point as previous morning. Basically your helplessness resets everyday and you have to build your patience almost from dead 0 up manually. Notice how you may be talking here with others in the evening, seemingly buy into narrative that it's getting promising for you and as soon as you get caught by doubts next day your mood is almost as if you forgot 100% of all the reassurance you got before. For me, it's once every week now. More precisely, after every next wave, and it's still not from 0, but more like from 20-40. I was going through everyday somehow and there were good moments there even during a wave (watching ski jumping competition, having some fun while shopping, shaving with new razors), but for some reason my mind remembers this wave only through that traumatic depersonalization which was acute for 20 minutes and gone completely after 2 hours. This is why I'm getting neurothoughts such as "I can't like this anymore, let it finally end!", but honestly, it wasn't that bad. Right now I may feel like with such brain burning, unbearable nausea and painful throat I'd be crying for help... but it wasn't like that. I remember it happening real-time and I was playing with my dog. There was nothing special in that moment that made me more capable of withstanding that and if it happened now, I would still be doing what I do and not for example cry. Wave was building up smoothly and despite my brain being like "oh no, never again" now, well... I got through it without compromising much. Like every wave sofar. Thus, you may want to evaluate if your urgent hopes for windows now are that necessary since you may view your worst times as longer, worse and more frequent than they actually were. Waves are bad, but as much as it's difficult to imagine it now, maybe on the timeline Maria in May also has a really bad wave? How would you want her to approach it then? More real or just raw judgement based on momentary reaction? I'm not trying to scare you with its length, but maybe if you could mentally free yourself from that desperation it will be much easier for you for the remaining, regardless how short or long time?

[BaccatePlayer]

Terrible nausea, head and sinuses area literally close to peaking beyond pain tolerance, like screaming inside pumping explosion or something. Brain seemingly full of chemical burden, fogged and agitated. These symptoms are no longer anything I can even describe. This is all just not feeling myself and feeling some horrible malfunction instead. I said that they evolved some time ago and it seems to continue. It's getting better and better each week, but still not the level I'd call bearable. Wish I could feel myself and use all of my thoughts without triggering pain, wierdness and panic. This is just ranting, nobody can really help me with that because I have to face it anyways. I'm on sole mercy of time and my own organism. It's not crying grief though, just annoyance and disappointment. I need to be objective: it improves, so I'm doing everything right sofar. Expecting recovery this week is not realistic, but expecting pain not to reach critical levels is and moods not taking over my real thinking probably is as well. It already almost happened, so it just needs slightly more CNS support during some moments. What I think may have triggered depersonalization was me bottling up my regret and frustration from my parents evening before and then facing a structured, isolating morning in church. I will try to connect better with my family who is quite conflict and pessimism prone. Maybe less phone and more rest too?

 

Morning was especially difficult because neuroemotions took over my thinking for a while. I felt trapped, so I wrote more affirmations. My brain feels slow, more prone to negative rumminations and I feel like I struggle to mentally wake up for around 2-4 hours after I physically wake up. I lost so much weight that I was even concerned about it. I'm thinking if there's anything I could do better, but the only thing that comes to my mind is to have a more sober outlook on my waves. For some reason they figure as extremely traumatic in my head when they're actually only like that for some time at worst. Maybe I still overreact to a single week holding grudge that my efforts don't pay as much as I'd like to instantly.

 

Biggest improvements this month are being able to go wherever I need to throughout the week, breaking through negative thought patterns, resisting successfully most symptoms except depersonalization and overwhelming mood clouds, finally not having pain breakdowns, eating came back to normal, functioning during waves remains unaffected, the heat sensation we get just before we start sweating as well as goosebumps got restored fully back to normal.

 

Affirmations (use whenever):

-You will be alive, there's no danger. Your mood will be back to normal in 1-4 hours if it isn't already. Maybe you just process slowly because brain is working on improvements.

-Don't try to fix symptoms. You can't do this, but you can do anything in the meantime and it will pass.

-Moods are very powerful. What you feel is very real, but it won't leave you in this state.

-Spend time with others. Talking about what you feel solves half of a problem.

-If you feel burden from symptoms, take your mind off them. Open phone, laptop, look around and name as many subjects that you normally explore as you can. Recall your stances on each. Slowly your mind will catch on, even if not instantly you're impacting it towards right direction,

-If you don't feel like coping, take a nap. After even half an hour things may change drastically. Don't forget that you were through many symptoms, they felt eternal traps and they changed. You can be calm, you can be just after a night sleep, but you can still feel not like yourself. This isn't your normal state, everything that feels off, overwhelming just isn't your default mode. Don't give up because your mind may just be overloaded and process things slowly.

-There is always an option: the forum, your family, your friends, your distractions, God and there are many ways to change pace that can shock your system and restore functioning: bath, snacks, video games, a walk, prayer, talking to others, relaxation, old photos, drawing...

[BaccatePlayer]

On 2/3/2024 at 9:53 PM, getofflex said:

 

It sounds like you might have kindled when you tried going back on the bupropion back in December.

Can this make recovery longer for me? I can't really tell from current day perspective, but I remember adding bupropion and buspirone two days after my initial immediate adverse reaction to sertraline as my doctor stupidly advised, but it was and now is even more difficult to tell what it did to me. For sure it didn't solve anything, but it may have added symptoms like manic mental agitation (from bupropion side) and difficulty in balance (from buspirone side) which are in some lesser form still present. I probably had a strong wave on 21.12 with heart weakness that I thought I won't survive. Then again it may did nothing/very little and I just interpreted my wave as these meds worsening my state (I was completely clueless during first three weeks) and I know contemplating that now won't change anything but I'm just curious if taking the two back then and then dropping it right away could doomed me for longer than necessary? My symptoms were incredibly severe right away and it lasted for pretty much whole month, so I would totally believe this would more or less happen in this form from IAR to sertraline alone, just brainstorming because I saw you warning against kindling. Does this have an effect for the future? My parents even advised me to reinstate a few times during first month but luckily my intuition told me that this would only create more chaos.

[getofflex]

1 hour ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Can this make recovery longer for me?

It is possible that I could.  If it were me, I would cease from trying any more psychiatric drugs.  

 

1 hour ago, BaccatePlayer said:

My parents even advised me to reinstate a few times during first month but luckily my intuition told me that this would only create more chaos.

I'm glad you listened to your intuition.  In my experience as a moderator here, whenever people have tried new psych drugs, it usually made their problems worse.  

[BaccatePlayer]

3 minutes ago, getofflex said:

It is possible that I could.  If it were me, I would cease from trying any more psychiatric drugs.  

Oh... Then I hope I'm not doomed for years now... Trying anything now is simply impossible. I developed such trauma to meds that I even refuse painkillers or vitamins. To be honest I still force myself everyday to take levothyroxine and usually hide under falling asleep for half hour because I'm afraid of experiencing its digestion. Such burden inside brain, such burning - this all feel so delicate now, I would have to feel miles better for consequtive weeks to be convinced to allow myself for carrying something heavier or have sex, let alone adding an actual chemical bomb to my organism now... I feel like my head would totally explode if I do so. In all cases I plan to never take any psychiatric meds now. No risk is worth it. Not even slightly.

 

Spent some time discussing recovery time with my friends... Turns out they're clueless now and it completely demotivates me. Is it completely random number of days for everyone and not that much affected by type of med, dose, overall drug history etc? I can't even know that with 3 months margin of error? That's probably most upsetting...

[BaccatePlayer]

Woke up feeling better, but quickly did something I didn't want to try yet. At least I'll know if it's still as destabilizing as I thought it is up to this day. Now I feel wierd. Physical symptoms turned the volume down, if I keep myself distracted they're not bothering me. Mood is very confusing like it was simultaneously on the normal side and the extremely lost, derealized spectrum. I wish I felt myself and not question my sanity anymore. Some "dimensions" of mood are just not even sad, they're utterly scary to be in given their unnatural taste. I tell myself that this is like feeling a cut on your leg. You can't feel something like this ever if you're not actually cut, but when you feel it, it's both unpleasant and alarmingly different than what you normally feel. I hope it'll stop because not feeling yourself in your own body is just unacceptable. It gets better, but when a wave is peaking I really sometimes only have enough of my own perspective to tell myself this is temporary and nothing else. Friends tell me to just flow with it, but for my sacred mind it's not fun. It really is the biggest upset of this condition.

 

Lately my waves follow the pattern of some big process going on inside brain that gets more and more overwhelming. When it reaches critical levels I'm sensitive to everything, head feels eggshell, I question walking, watching screens, food, my own survival... Not sure if I can hope next time it will be bearable. Maybe in a month? Absolutely worst that can happen during a wave is losing control and getting into that narrow, overwhelming dimension of either pain or depersonalization. It's like the big process takes over so much space in my head that it pushes out my sober mindset for a while. I don't know how to cope with it.

 

I think I fell into too much observation lately. Spending time on this forum is both helpful and risky because watching others fighting for every single next day here is simply putting my mind into this condition again. I had to spend last week quite artificially, stubbornly pushing positivity and cancelling my perception when neuroemotions were playing tricks with me. Then I felt burnout from the intensity of wave. What now? Start over? Yes, some of my efforts do carry over, but going through next days is still a challenge I can't just ignore and give into. There's more and more regular life going on and it stays in my thoughts more strongly, but there is also a lot of changes in my neurochemical sphere, altering me in ways that are beyond intrusion. I'm still asking myself if this is normal, how will it even heal and why I don't see it happening too quickly. I'm very afraid there will be waves and such wierd states long after I feel recovered. I try to radically accept every outcome, but this is still a very long battle from my perspective. Muscle pain would be at least quite straightforward, but what I have is a mental torture instead.

 

The moment waves stop pushing me to the edge and bursting into either pain or depersonalization taking over is probably when I declare them bearable. This is my current goal. I want to feel myself and I'm getting closer to it. I hope baccate in 4 weeks admits it was worth the endeavor.

[BaccatePlayer]

Glenmullen's symptoms list and my ratings:

 

Crying spells - gone

Worsened mood - yes, heavy but not all the time

Low energy - very rarely, if even

Trouble concentrating - it happens, but usually doesn't interfere much with my functioning

Insomnia or trouble sleeping - not anymore

Change in appetite - no

Suicidal thoughts - sometimes, but only in form of desperation impulses, nothing too serious

Suicidal attempts - no

 

Anxious, nervous, tense - happens, but rarely as a standalone issue

Panic attacks - happened, but not anymore unless it's in the background during pain or depersonalization attacks

Chest pain - no, only some mild sensations sometimes

Trembling, jittery or shaking - used to happen, but pretty much absent at this point

 

Irritability - sometimes, but rarely for longer than few hours during wave

Agitation - only on mental level, no need to actually move

Impulsivity - probably no

Aggressiveness - no, maybe some passive-aggressive remark here and there sometimes, but nothing serious

Self-harm - no

Homicidal thoughts or urges - no

 

Confusion or cognitive difficulties - yes

Memory problems or forgetfulness - yes

 

Elevated mood - not really, maybe some excitation when feeling better in hope it's ending

Mood swings - yes

Manic-like reactions - no external reactions like such

 

Auditory hallucinations - God no...

Visual hallucinations - God no...

 

Feeling detached or unreal - depersonalization and derealization do happen more or less intensely

 

Excessive or intense dreaming - happens from time to time

Nightmares - mostly during waves, nothing too bothering

 

Flu-like aches and pains - yes

Fever - not registered

Sweats - no

Chills - rarely and nothing abnormal, used to happen during hypersensitivity phase

Runny nose - no

Sore eyes - happens on pair with headaches

 

Nausea - yes

Vomiting - no

Diarrhea - no

Abdominal pain or cramps - sometimes on one side but very short and not intense

Stomach bloating - some slowdown during waves

 

Disequilibrium - some struggle but only feeling like such

Spinning, swaying, lightheaded - used to be significant, now marginal

Hung over or waterlogged feeling - yes

Unsteady gait, poor coordination - feeling like but not happening for real

Motion sickness - maybe slighly, but not literally

 

Headache - happens

 

Tremor - no

 

Numbness, burning or tingling - brain burning yes

Electric zap-like sensations in the brain - no

Electric shock-like sensations in the body - not the way I'd put it

Abnormal visual sensations - flashes occur

Ringing or other noises in the ears - yes

Abnormal smells or tastes - had abnormal smells during one or two waves

 

Drooling or excessive saliva - no

Slurred speech - minimally sometimes

Blurred vision - rarely happens in mild form when looking far away

Muscle cramps, stiffness, twitches - no

Feeling of restless legs - no

Uncontrollable twitching of mouth - no

 

Basically sinus pain can be covered by "headache", brain fog is probably a cognitive issue as well, feeling like brain is not functioning normally likely being expected since there is a turmoil inside in attempt for organism stabilize itself and negative thoughts and moods are described as neuroemotions here. Anything else would probably fall under "abnormal sensations". A bit of sanity check though I used to be skeptical because most of these feel much different for a healthy person than someone who goes through withdrawal or IAR I believe. Moods, thoughts, perceptions and the overall feeling of self is probably the most everpresent burden simply due to how inseparatable these are from just... living.

[getofflex]

16 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Is it completely random number of days for everyone and not that much affected by type of med, dose, overall drug history etc? I can't even know that with 3 months margin of error? That's probably most upsetting...

I can't tell you how long it will take.  It's different for everyone.  Please just take each day as it comes.  Trying to worry about how long this will take is likely to pull you into a downward spiral of anxiety.  Please read this: 

 

How Long is Withdrawal Going to Take

 

Try to focus on the fact that it will end, and is only temporary. 

Edited March 20 by getofflex

[BaccatePlayer]

24 minutes ago, getofflex said:

I can't tell you how long it will take.  It's different for everyone.  Please just take each day as it comes.  Trying to worry about how long this will take is likely to pull you into a downward spiral of anxiety.  Please read this: 

 

How Long is Withdrawal Going to Take

 

Try to focus on the fact that it will end, and is only temporary. 

I know. I feel equally helpless when I can't answer other people when they ask this. I've read this topic numerous times even before creating an account here. I think I'm having a window today but when I stop and check how I feel, if everything functions how it should and are thoughts/feelings felt normal, but sadly still not feeling fully myself and waves still cross the barrier of stripping me from control needed not to break down. I could go by "it started improving after 2-2.5 months, so maybe it takes as much to heal back", but it's probably not that linear. Otherwise this would leave me with 4-9 more weeks. I no longer get anxious by it, but if it's like 1-5 years more then it puts many things in my life like relationship or financial situation in a bit complicated position. I wish I could at least tell when I could go through whole week without breaking down. Just to confirm: no need to change anything? Simply staying on levothyroxine alone and waiting? There is a huge improvement lately, so I just want to make sure I'm not messing the optimal routine.

[mariamisery]

Glad it is not bad today for you.  Hope it is coming to an end for you soon! Thanks again for  reassuring me that this breathing issue will pass. It is awful! I know you too have some symptoms that are worse than others. Thanks so much. I don't have the knowledge but I can lend a listening ear.

[BaccatePlayer]

1 hour ago, mariamisery said:

Glad it is not bad today for you.  Hope it is coming to an end for you soon! Thanks again for  reassuring me that this breathing issue will pass. It is awful! I know you too have some symptoms that are worse than others. Thanks so much. I don't have the knowledge but I can lend a listening ear.

I wish, but it seems recovery needs some more time than I'd assume which is quite upsetting. Friday marks 3 months and 1 week in total, but what I'm waiting for and it's probably more realistic is for waves to stop causing attacks of either pain or borderline experiences. I was in town, in church and at the shop during wave few times and this may not be good idea to replicate for a while. I could survive it but if spending time home, mostly in bed ends a wave in three days, then I take that over regular life tempo and six day waves. My pulse went from 90 to 50 and it's a sign my default panic levels got lower again (I'm a bodybuilder, so 30-60 is my expected pulse) which is my why I also had heartrate and breathing misadjustements during this wave. High default panic levels are bad because it keeps everything tensed and hyperalerted like if something flew into my mouth or I accidently delay breathing/swallowing during sleep or drinking it immediately reacts as if I'm suffocating and it's very drastic even if I don't feel panicky throughout the day. I'm also glad you're with us here, Maria. Cute and empathetic soul.

[BaccatePlayer]

On 2/3/2024 at 9:53 PM, getofflex said:

Often, we are able to start and stop drugs abruptly at first, but eventually with the drug starts and stops, the brain becomes sensitized, and then we can no longer do this, and we have major symptoms.  

Questions about kindling that I couldn't find answers in the main kinding and hypersensitivity topic: Is this just a hypersensitivity to meds that causes no issues as long as we abstain or it's a variant on its own that causes withdrawal symptoms?

 

Does this double or strengthen symptoms from already existing immediate adverse reaction making it longer and more severe?

 

Is this issue separable from IAR and one can disappear leaving only the other or is this one compound damage that heals simultaneously?

 

Is this a very serious difference? Like something that turns, I don't know 9 months withdrawal into 16 months or mildly severe symptoms into very severe ones?

 

I was just wondering if this is the factor that makes my case this severe and even though I don't know if I actually kindled for sure, how costly it can be. Sorry for bothering again, I was sure my case isn't too complicated, but now I'm afraid it can actually be.

[BaccatePlayer]

Yesterday I was pretty intensely active which was very stupid of me and at the end of the day felt pretty much myself. Just some minor noise in the head that I didn't even feel until I focused on it. Today vertigo and processing very bad, it was literally reaching some breaking point when I was shopping like my body telling me it hurts to keep myself on feet. It felt like hyperexcitability pinching. Such heaves of this symptom go away within 20-40 minutes now probably because I'm still in a window, but I'm very afraid of upcoming wave. Wish I could make up for it somehow but seems like I can't. It's not like the symptoms are gone, they're just "muted" and I can feel it. I can't do anything with it now, but I suspect the wave is likely going to be worse unless the tax from my activity will be dealt with before wave starts making it a slightly more challenging window followed by regular wave. I wish I could ignore it but I know a lot of moments when waves are such burden that I'm simply losing it. Add more of these, prolong or strengthen these and it becomes unimaginably bad.

[getofflex]

4 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

s this just a hypersensitivity to meds that causes no issues as long as we abstain or it's a variant on its own that causes withdrawal symptoms?

I believe that is is that our nervous systems become hypersensitive, both to psych meds, and possibly other things in the environment, such as chemicals, sudden weather changes, mold, processed foods, sugar, ect.  The best cure for this is to completely abstain from psych meds, and eventually it will very gradually diminish.  

4 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Does this double or strengthen symptoms from already existing immediate adverse reaction making it longer and more severe?

 

Is this issue separable from IAR and one can disappear leaving only the other or is this one compound damage that heals simultaneously?

Actually, kindling is an adverse reaction to the meds, caused by the sensitized nervous system, so it's not separate from the adverse reaction.  

 

4 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

I was just wondering if this is the factor that makes my case this severe and even though I don't know if I actually kindled for sure, how costly it can be. Sorry for bothering again, I was sure my case isn't too complicated, but now I'm afraid it can actually be.

It's important to try not to overanalyze and overthink your situation, because that will tend to cause stress and anxiety.  This releases stress hormones in your body (cortisol and adrenaline).  These stress hormones will worsen your symptoms, and this leads to a downward spiral.  No one knows exactly how long their recovery is going to take, and it's best to just stay in the present, and take things as they come.  

 

 

[BaccatePlayer]

1 minute ago, getofflex said:

I believe that is is that our nervous systems become hypersensitive, both to psych meds, and possibly other things in the environment, such as chemicals, sudden weather changes, mold, processed foods, sugar, ect.  The best cure for this is to completely abstain from psych meds, and eventually it will very gradually diminish.  

Thanks! Atmsopheric pressure, sugar and temperature used to be huge ones at the beginning, now they're probably not or minimally so. Good to know I'm on optimal path.

 

3 minutes ago, getofflex said:

Actually, kindling is an adverse reaction to the meds, caused by the sensitized nervous system, so it's not separate from the adverse reaction.  

Ah, so I just have shaken nervous system from adverse reactions regardless of which ones. Alright, this information restored my peace.

 

5 minutes ago, getofflex said:

It's important to try not to overanalyze and overthink your situation, because that will tend to cause stress and anxiety.  This releases stress hormones in your body (cortisol and adrenaline).  These stress hormones will worsen your symptoms, and this leads to a downward spiral.  No one knows exactly how long their recovery is going to take, and it's best to just stay in the present, and take things as they come.  

 

I think I just fell into that. Started wondering why my buzzy balance is so wierd and if it's even a symptom, but since it all started exactly after taking meds and continues with wave-window pattern, I need to leave these thoughts because situation is clear. Thanks for reassurance, I was holding myself strongly, but lately just lost some drive to keep my hopes up.

[BaccatePlayer]

Alright, looks like I got too comfortable with my endurance and now it taxes me heavily. Feeling really unwell, on the verge of absolutely bursting to tears because this is unbearable and it's not even a wave now. I don't even want to know what wave will be like, but now I don't know what to do. Gotta use relaxation technique because nothing else is at hand. Hopefully it will get better soon but I'm gonna spend next days in bed because I overstimulated myself too much and now even walking feels like I'm falling apart.

[Sonia009]

58 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Alright, looks like I got too comfortable with my endurance and now it taxes me heavily. Feeling really unwell, on the verge of absolutely bursting to tears because this is unbearable and it's not even a wave now. I don't even want to know what wave will be like, but now I don't know what to do. Gotta use relaxation technique because nothing else is at hand. Hopefully it will get better soon but I'm gonna spend next days in bed because I overstimulated myself too much and now even walking feels like I'm falling apart.

Hi, I have been watching Shaan Kassam videos on anxiety on YouTube this am, I found them very helpful and they explained a lot of my symptoms which could be anxiety or withdrawal, just thought you may find them of some use. Stay strong.

[BaccatePlayer]

28 minutes ago, Sonia009 said:

Hi, I have been watching Shaan Kassam videos on anxiety on YouTube this am, I found them very helpful and they explained a lot of my symptoms which could be anxiety or withdrawal, just thought you may find them of some use. Stay strong.

Hi Sonia! I really like it, quality content and he knows what it's like to suffer anxiety. I'm not necessarly feeling anxious lately, just burdened by symptoms related to balance, pain, cognition and nausea, but obviously more anxiety would only make any symptom worse, so best to always stay composed and strong. Thank you a lot, I hope you find relief too!

[Sonia009]

22 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Hi Sonia! I really like it, quality content and he knows what it's like to suffer anxiety. I'm not necessarly feeling anxious lately, just burdened by symptoms related to balance, pain, cognition and nausea, but obviously more anxiety would only make any symptom worse, so best to always stay composed and strong. Thank you a lot, I hope you find relief too!

Yes he's great. I think I must have silent anxiety because although I don't appear anxious on the outside, I'm a bit like a duck, calm on the surface but paddling like crazy under the water. Better days to come.😀

[BaccatePlayer]

12 minutes ago, Sonia009 said:

Yes he's great. I think I must have silent anxiety because although I don't appear anxious on the outside, I'm a bit like a duck, calm on the surface but paddling like crazy under the water. Better days to come.😀

I know what you mean. Light choking and I already feel going instant panic despite appearing fearless all the time. I was reading about depersonalization in hopes to find some prevention strategies and it seems to be linked to panic and not feeling safe or connected to someone/something secure. I think no matter what I seemingly feel we're very vulnerable during such times and may benefit from working on anxiety, panic and rumminations everyday. It's easy to empty our reserves but when we're out of them there's not much we can do, so best to prepare in advance so that anxiety doesn't come in way in addition to other symptoms. I wish I could think this way, but today was supposed to be better day given how it's clearly not a wave for me, but I blew my energy too quickly yesterday and today I had to rest more. I just hope next wave won't be worse than last one. I will try to avoid overthinking, blasting myself with screens too much and will try to rest more. I'd probably be around 3.5 months in after next wave, so maybe the most acute phase will be over by then. Wish you also catch a better day soon!

[littlebird]

13 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

1 hour ago, Sonia009 said:

I think I must have silent anxiety because although I don't appear anxious on the outside, I'm a bit like a duck, calm on the surface but paddling like crazy under the water. Better days to come.😀

I know what you mean. Light choking and I already feel going instant panic despite appearing fearless all the time.

Oh my gosh, me too. Even in a therapy or psychiatric settings, I'll say I'm unmanageably anxious and be told, "You seem very calm/high functioning/whatever to me."

 

Makes it hard to feel heard when trying to seek help at times. I had to keep it together in my home of origin, so maybe for me it's partly cPTSD? Maybe how we're socialized in general in modern human society?

[BaccatePlayer]

1 minute ago, littlebird said:

Oh my gosh, me too. Even in a therapy or psychiatric settings, I'll say I'm unmanageably anxious and be told, "You seem very calm/high functioning/whatever to me."

 

Makes it hard to feel heard when trying to seek help at times. I had to keep it together in my home of origin, so maybe for me it's partly cPTSD? Maybe how we're socialized in general in modern human society?

My endocrynologist and my therapist told me that too, some teachers as well. I even have inherited low cortisol so it's really invisible and unproveable. You may be having a tendency for extreme internal dialogue. You suggested two "maybes" in a row which is a habbit I also have due to mind wanting to rationalize and control everything. Someone may call me quiet and non-reactive, but when you are so wired into managing the world inside, no wonder expressions don't come out. The ones that do are in my case autopilot coded so they still don't reveal my neuroticism. It got me into disadvantage when applying for SSI. They literally used my high grades, composed demeanor and verbal elaboration against me. I mean, who's more likely to be rebelious troublemaker? An anxious or fearless person? It's evolutionary more risky to stand out, so no wonder anxious people act like they're not anxious.

[littlebird]

2 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

You suggested two "maybes" in a row which is a habbit I also have

Well, and things are often so very nuanced! Rarely is there just one root cause, you know? There are so many external forces in our lives, sometimes ones that intersect.

 

3 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Someone may call me quiet and non-reactive, but when you are so wired into managing the world inside, no wonder expressions don't come out.

Oh my goodness, so well put! I've been wondering why when WD symptoms are high it's so hard for me to make even the smallest of small talk, but this is exactly it: I'm so busy managing the wild storm inside that it's sometimes hard to do anything but keep a lid on it.

 

4 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

It got me into disadvantage when applying for SSI. They literally used my high grades, composed demeanor and verbal elaboration against me.

ME TOO!!! It makes me wonder... do I need to figure out how to let some of this out in those settings? I never learned how to express the tough stuff, just how to suppress. 

[BaccatePlayer]

8 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Well, and things are often so very nuanced! Rarely is there just one root cause, you know? There are so many external forces in our lives, sometimes ones that intersect.

It's just that the tax from being aware of it is quite heavy.

 

11 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Oh my goodness, so well put! I've been wondering why when WD symptoms are high it's so hard for me to make even the smallest of small talk, but this is exactly it: I'm so busy managing the wild storm inside that it's sometimes hard to do anything but keep a lid on it.

It's still easier for me to do nothing and think than do something and stop thinking. There is simply no me when I leave internal symptoms unsupervised, but it would be much easier if I did so.

12 minutes ago, littlebird said:

ME TOO!!! It makes me wonder... do I need to figure out how to let some of this out in those settings? I never learned how to express the tough stuff, just how to suppress. 

Probably only towards trusted people. Out of all individuals there is just a few of them who should know about our weaknesses.

[littlebird]

21 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

It's just that the tax from being aware of it is quite heavy.

You said it, brother. 😬

 

21 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

There is simply no me when I leave internal symptoms unsupervised, but it would be much easier if I did so.

How's your level of supervision? I think of it as taking note of the internal weather sometimes. On the sunnier days, not something I have to think about too often, but when an emotional storm rolls in it's a different story.

 

23 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Probably only towards trusted people. Out of all individuals there is just a few of them who should know about our weaknesses.

This has been a huuuuuge part of my trauma recovery. It definitely has to be trusted people, being too vulnerable with an unsafe person will make me clam up for the foreseeable future! Life has crossed my path with some lovely people in the past few years, very safe to be genuinely me whatever I feel like that day. Ugh, still not easy when I feel less than presentable, but with the right, non-judgmental people it's helped me feel lovable however I happen to be that particular day. 

[Sonia009]

57 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Oh my gosh, me too. Even in a therapy or psychiatric settings, I'll say I'm unmanageably anxious and be told, "You seem very calm/high functioning/whatever to me."

 

Makes it hard to feel heard when trying to seek help at times. I had to keep it together in my home of origin, so maybe for me it's partly cPTSD? Maybe how we're socialized in general in modern human society?

That makes so much sense. Apparently silent anxiety can be caused by experiencing a traumatic event (environmental influences) or having a family member with a mental health condition (personal experiences). Charlie health - Sarah Fielding. June 21, 2023.

My husband had a TIA two years ago that has caused him stress, depression, trauma and this has affected his mental health which has taken a toll on my own mental health. Although I am going through withdrawal, I am also living with the trauma of my husband's problems. This makes it difficult to understand where the main problem lies. 

[littlebird]

9 hours ago, Sonia009 said:

 

My husband had a TIA two years ago that has caused him stress, depression, trauma and this has affected his mental health which has taken a toll on my own mental health. Although I am going through withdrawal, I am also living with the trauma of my husband's problems. This makes it difficult to understand where the main problem lies. 

This sounds incredibly hard for you both! Have you found any support online or in person, groups for caretakers of those post-TIA? 

[Sonia009]

2 hours ago, littlebird said:

This sounds incredibly hard for you both! Have you found any support online or in person, groups for caretakers of those post-TIA? 

Hi, my husband has therapy sessions still, he's starting a new course in June also. I go online, currently doing a CBT course with the NHS, I have a mentor who emails me. I coped well in the first year, my husband had support from Stroke organisation with NHS, he started getting depression in the second year, he has insomnia which doesn't help matters. 😊🙏

[BaccatePlayer]

11 hours ago, littlebird said:

How's your level of supervision?

I instantly know what's going on inside me. It's pretty much 24/7 and I'm HSP on top of that. 

 

11 hours ago, littlebird said:

Ugh, still not easy when I feel less than presentable, but with the right, non-judgmental people it's helped me feel lovable however I happen to be that particular day. 

Glad you're making progress. I mostly got through my issues and the only one left being my symptoms.

 

11 hours ago, Sonia009 said:

This makes it difficult to understand where the main problem lies. 

Very sorry, Sonia. It's best to have as little issues going on simultaneously during withdrawal but loved ones are loved ones. Hope you handle it somehow and you both see a brighter time soon.

 

I'm trying to stay strong but the tempo of improvemnt just doesn't support me well enough. Once my family heard that it got better they probably just stopped treating it seriously and hope I'm just able to cope with whatever. Thing is, my CNS is still very weak, barely handles anything and I'm probably not ready for regular life tempo yet. At least during waves I'm in need for less stimulation and more rest. It feels wierd to say that walking or standing is currently taxing but if there's at least relief from one symptom, I'm taking it because it's all temporary anyways. There were times when balance issues were so severe that even lying down wasn't helping. I wish I knew how long before it ends but most recovery stories are at least twice the time I already survived.

[Sonia009]

14 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

I instantly know what's going on inside me. It's pretty much 24/7 and I'm HSP on top of that. 

 

Glad you're making progress. I mostly got through my issues and the only one left being my symptoms.

 

Very sorry, Sonia. It's best to have as little issues going on simultaneously during withdrawal but loved ones are loved ones. Hope you handle it somehow and you both see a brighter time soon.

 

I'm trying to stay strong but the tempo of improvemnt just doesn't support me well enough. Once my family heard that it got better they probably just stopped treating it seriously and hope I'm just able to cope with whatever. Thing is, my CNS is still very weak, barely handles anything and I'm probably not ready for regular life tempo yet. At least during waves I'm in need for less stimulation and more rest. It feels wierd to say that walking or standing is currently taxing but if there's at least relief from one symptom, I'm taking it because it's all temporary anyways. There were times when balance issues were so severe that even lying down wasn't helping. I wish I knew how long before it ends but most recovery stories are at least twice the time I already survived.

@BaccatePlayerI think it's difficult for family to understand, my mother doesn't for sure. It's so hard to get it across to people, if they haven't experienced it themselves they think It's something you can just snap yourself out of. Listening to Shaan's videos yesterday, he talked about the sensitized nervous system and that it's not a quick fix, for some it can take many months, years even. I think it's something we have to accept for now and just try to carry on in the best way we can regardless. I hope you find relief soon.😊🙏