BaccatePlayer: Immediate adverse reaction to sertraline

[getofflex]

28 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

You can also see your "withdrawal feelings and emotions" or "neuroemotions" as feelings and emotions that could be coming back from past traumas/traumatic events that never were properly addressed, sometimes forgotten. In any case, their messages is sometimes aren't updated, regarding to the present circumstances, so that's why they are so distressing and confusing. Also, lots of people suffered trauma before and/or when starting taking psychiatric drugs, they disconnect when taking the drugs from the painful traumatic feelings and emotions and when they quit they come back again, more intense than ever after being chemically suppressed for so long, and they trauma never being properly addressed and reprocessed.

Yes, this is a very good point, too, and I agree.  I believe that for many of us, the neuro emotions are a blend of true emotions amplified by the neuro emotion component.  For me personally, I have had a lot of emotions from past trauma resurface as I've gotten off the meds.  These 2 books helped me a lot:  

 

"Complex PTSD From Surviving to Thriving" by Pete Walker 

"The Tao of Fully Feeling" by Pete Walker.  

 

There are others as well.  Bessel Van Der Kolk wrote "The Body Keeps the Score".  

 

28 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

I really wish withdrawal community was trauma informed.

Many of us are very familiar with trauma.  This site is run by only a few unpaid volunteers, so we barely have time to help people with tapering and withdrawal.   We don't have the time or resources help people with trauma - we suggest face to face help with this, or at least seeking the help of a therapist who specializes in trauma online.  However, I am sympathetic and understanding of those who have trauma, as I have it myself.  

Edited March 14 by getofflex

[BaccatePlayer]

2 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

This is pretty nice, the only thing I would add is a touch of trauma-informed.

 

You can also see your "withdrawal feelings and emotions" or "neuroemotions" as feelings and emotions that could be coming back from past traumas/traumatic events that never were properly addressed, sometimes forgotten. In any case, their messages is sometimes not up to the present circumstances so that's why they are so distressing and confusing. Also, lots of people suffered trauma before and/or when starting taking psychiatric drugs, they disconnect when taking the drugs from the painful traumatic feelings and emotions and when they quit they come back again, more intense than ever after being chemically suppressed for so long, and they trauma never being properly addressed and reprocessed.

 

I really wish withdrawal community was trauma informed.

This take is very holistic and underdiscussed. I personally didn't notice my feelings resembling any concerns from the past. I was actually not under influence of any other drug when I had my immediate adverse reaction and was generally feeling psychologically cured when during that time (no depression, anxiety nor compulsions), but what I backtrack my reaction then (I probably reacted with panic attack) is the "wave" (?) I had on 17.07.2023 when I was like four days straight on a big mix of bupropion, D3, zinc, magnessium, selenium and iodine and it gave me feelings of swollen throat, headaches, dizziness and balance issues. Obviously I panicked that I'm losing breath then, couldn't stabilize, my mom gave me painkiller which only intensified issues and luckily it stopped when I woke up next day. The very next day after I took sertraline (17.12.2023) my reaction in the evening was very similair. Even now everytime when I think about exactly about either of these two evenings it creates a very specific grip on my head and I mean extremely destabilizing like I'm losing ground and falling apart. It's a very unique feeling, like my head getting overloaded beyond reactions I can imagine. It can also be replicated by me starting to believe a) it will never end b) it will end in 3+ more months. I don't know how to approach this, but I need to stop thinking about it now or I'll escalate my current state.

[Gonzo]

Yes, I mean, I'm not only refering to this website, which I'm extremely grateful that it exists, as many others. I'd say this website is not trauma informed for the most part, but it has some level of acknowledge about the trauma experience of withdrawals. I was refering to the whole withdrawal community, this website being part of it I guess. With trauma informed I meant to acknowledge that withdrawal can also be what I described, so, to be informed and informing about the possible trauma component of withdrawal. I think in many cases withdrawal can't be just reduced to the "neuro" component, as psychiatry does with it's neurological and biomedical reductionist approach. For some people, yes, it's just that their body and brain is disregulated by the withdrawal. But in any case, why did they start taking the drug in the first place? What lead to that? Was trauma present? Were they dealing with something painful, overwhelming, traumatic? And the fact that we suffered or are suffering withdrawal means that we were suffered substance abuse disorder and malpractice, a violation of our rights. That is traumatic as well, once you realize it.

 

Anyway, just my two cents.

[BaccatePlayer]

Not feeling well. Yesterday, I had two few-minutes long bombs of some internal dread and terror. Wierd, sharp shots of suddenly feeling terribly instantly. My head was burdened so much that I thought I will collapse from panic. I wasn't exactly feeling drunk, but just so overloaded that it was like watching a dream and not participating consciously. Today I had a similair shot but more pain-like, a hit in the head. I even actually said "ouch" out loud.

 

Must be a wave since yesterday. Tinnitus got stronger, flashes more intense, head became eggshell (very sensitive to movements) and focusing on it brings panic instantly. My hearing became confusing too. As if brain had some lags in terms of source and distance of sounds. I did my best not to panic because at some points it feels like hearing voices, but it's not that. In the evening my head became so overloaded, I would describe it as "ice so cold it burns". The burden was peaking, but the head "numbed" a little due to late hour. Very unpleasant stuff cause even walking has some odd "aura". Nonetheless I would say this wave is less severe than the previous one so far, but I have to push through with struggle since if I stopped and started wondering "wow, what is happening to me?" etc; it will be very difficult to get out of it. All checkmarks for wave (new symptoms, current ones persisting stronger at once, weakened tolerance to stress and thinking about my state instantly leading to panic), so I just keep telling myself that it won't be like that either later or next day(s). Not sure if I already survived the worst, but this is not a good time to contemplate that now. Still, I feel my brain makes it kind of easier for me this time, I just need to make sure I'm not too agitated.

 

Really wish the phase of "heavy operations" in my brain ended soon because it's really more than just withstanding a symptom, I literally need to invalidate almost all my thoughts and sensations solely in the name of premise that it will end at some point. If I walk through the room and it's my walking that's affected, my hearing, my sight, my thoughts and my mood simultaneously, then really what am I supposed to even do to distract myself? Anyways, my mood isn't as affected now as it used to be earlier, but that's not to say I won't snap into depression cloud under such load. Last wave was around 60 hours long, so  maybe it's a matter of hours or just one day now. Those actions in brain are just exhausting, all that burning, sometimes pain and wierd things going on with my sense of thinking, truly feeling very serious and as a 26 years old boy I just don't have experiences with such states. I lost contact with some spheres of life like work, sex, because there's so little % of me in me now, total survivalist mode closed in one area, absolutely losing the image of how my life used to be before. It's 3 months today since my IAR and I really wish I don't have to have such artificial approach to everything anymore.

[Kaylaq]

I’m so sorry your waves are so intense!  Grab on to one of those tools you have in your amazing guide posting you made as soon as you can!!

be kind to yourself and shower yourself with compassion. This too shall pass! 
🥰🥰🙏🙏💪💪

[BaccatePlayer]

19 minutes ago, Kaylaq said:

I’m so sorry your waves are so intense!  Grab on to one of those tools you have in your amazing guide posting you made as soon as you can!!

be kind to yourself and shower yourself with compassion. This too shall pass! 
🥰🥰🙏🙏💪💪

Thank you Kaylaq! That means a lot to me! I caught myself being mentally agitated and decided I should just stop and resist my mind wanting me to be compulsively rescued by distractions. I made pierogis, did some vacuum cleaning, shaving and watched sports on TV, but I was still impatient and frustrated that brain burning and even eyes-nose region is giving me so much pain. This is just how the wave moods always were. There's no other way to go through it than me experiencing all this and either tommorow morning or maybe afternoon it should be over. Right now I'm holding a warm bottle of water, trying to relax in blanket. Waves are not a good time to worry about the future, the brain already has enough load right now. It's very uncomfortable to feel some of my thoughts seeming empty, but maybe it's the bad ones that my mind tries to get rid of now. In any case, I won't fix it by thinking of it, whatever happens will eventually leave me some more healed. Just like you say, my hope is in the fact that it will surely paas. On the bright side, this is yet again not as intense wave as the previous one was. May you remain strong and positive too!

[Kaylaq]

Right you are!  During the wave all you can do is self love, and nurture yourself, and not get caught up in the thoughts, ride them out!  So glad you shared and were able to get a few things done. I freeze and can’t do anything 😫😫 

look forward to seeing you in a window day! 👍🏼🥰🥰🥰

[Dahlia50]

@BaccatePlayer 

Hi, just wanted to say I recognize myself in what you write. How you get mashed by waves and pain. There are hardly any words for it and very lonely. It is impossible to understand if you have not experienced it yourself. 🙏

[mariamisery]

Does anyone ever get  awful waves that causes painful feelings .No other symptoms with it. I call it silent  emotional pain.  I don't feel depressed. Will this please end.

[BaccatePlayer]

15 hours ago, Kaylaq said:

Right you are!  During the wave all you can do is self love, and nurture yourself, and not get caught up in the thoughts, ride them out!  So glad you shared and were able to get a few things done. I freeze and can’t do anything 😫😫 

look forward to seeing you in a window day! 👍🏼🥰🥰🥰

Thank you! It still persists, the morning was absolute torture, discomfort inside reaching very high intensity, such a hard work not to give in to that, but I didn't snap. I think it slowly starts to get better now. I noticed there may not be much actual physical triggers and I can continue everything I normally do, but it's obviously harder when I move or stress myself. Sending best wishes back!

 

13 hours ago, Dahlia50 said:

@BaccatePlayer 

Hi, just wanted to say I recognize myself in what you write. How you get mashed by waves and pain. There are hardly any words for it and very lonely. It is impossible to understand if you have not experienced it yourself. 🙏

 

Thank you, kind soul! I'm sorry you're going through it as well. At least this time my mood wasn't affected too much. I had some moments of helplessness but they were mostly due to pain and suffering. My thinking was mostly clear, just that wierd void feeling yesterday (not feeling empty myself, but some wierd state posessing me) but I knew this is all just a wave and won't last more than few days. Probably the weakest wave sofar, but the pain part goes on for untypically long. Wish you find some relief too!

11 hours ago, mariamisery said:

Does anyone ever get  awful waves that causes painful feelings .No other symptoms with it. I call it silent  emotional pain.  I don't feel depressed. Will this please end.

If you mean just being stuck in a very low mood, then I did have such waves. Actually one day of my wave (the middle one because there were 3 in total) it was just some odd sadness, helplessness and yearning for rescue or some "getting myself back". I also didn't feel depressed. Yes, it will end, Maria. It feels like you can never escape it and it persists for hours, but it's not terminal. Think of what real Maria would feel in this time normally. Then try to act as if this was true and maybe your system will catch up to that. Maybe not right away, maybe you will feel that you're wasting time forcing it at first, but don't react too sharply to it. You don't need to alter it to survive and it even if you gave in to that mood you'd still recover, but if you want to break through it for future waves, try to stop paying attention to it once you recognize this state. Your mind won't be dragged to places that are being neglected as you will weaken the instant link to them with time.

[Dahlia50]

@mariamisery My waves are so intense right now, so for me its mostly physical and mental pain at the same time.
 

Sometimes its also emotional but then it has more to do with the situation I ended up in, the insight of blunting. Or when I realize how stupid I was to taper off fast in the end, how long I was stuck on zoloft (lost years) and what if I never started taking it - it hurts emotionally. 
It might also hurt emotionally as the feelings have been turned off, at least for me who took Zoloft for 13 years.

[Kaylaq]

@mariamisery I can relate to your emotions, I too tapered to fast, constantly regretting being on AD, but I am working on constantly forgiving myself. We didn’t know at that time in our lives!! We can only self love, self compassion, self forgive to get through these waves, the physical and the emotional!  🙏🏻🙏🏻🥰🥰
 

@BaccatePlayer thank you for keeping us focused on surviving these waves, that we can get past this, that we will heal and see better days.  The support here is what keeps me believing! 👍🏻👍🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🤩🤩

[Gonzo]

Well guys, just reaching out to say that I'm doing better lately, during multiple days. My withdrawal actually started in late 2019. I think I'm coming to the other side. Keep it up. Don't loose hope, hope is what keep us going even when we objectively don't have reasons to be positive about things.

[BaccatePlayer]

1 hour ago, Kaylaq said:

 

@BaccatePlayer thank you for keeping us focused on surviving these waves, that we can get past this, that we will heal and see better days.  The support here is what keeps me believing! 👍🏻👍🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🤩🤩

Imagine this as us pulling each other up simultaneously.

 

2 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

Well guys, just reaching out to say that I'm doing better lately, during multiple days. My withdrawal actually started in late 2019. I think I'm coming to the other side. Keep it up. Don't loose hope, hope is what keep us going even when we objectively don't have reasons to be positive about things.

That's good. I'm sorry you're struggling for more years than I counting in months. Obviously when I hear "you'll get better in x months/years" it now sounds like "forget about getting better", but some hope is more than nothing. At least it's not like I'm gonna die from it or get worse or stay in place (though it often feels like I do). I broke all the negative thoughts patterns sofar, fear no challenge at this point (everything: my agoraphobia, my shyness, literally everything went away) and hope it's really no more than 89 days left. All waves do now to me is pain and stability issues. Some wierd flashes, lags in processing real-time situations, feeling like my head flows freely with no support (propioception issues kinda sensations) and I think it shifted from some phase to a different one. Last months is consequitively better and better, so maybe I'm also on the better side already which would suggest around 1-3 months left assuming it takes same amount of time on each side.

[mariamisery]

Thanks to you all!  I think I am getting better but it is very small. You don't notice much when you are feeling awful.  Wondering if it is a good sign for healing if the only thing really left is an uncomfortable feeling that somehow make me feel miserable. 

[Gonzo]

It takes the time it needs to, but if nothing horrible happens along the way, like it happened to me multiple times during my withdrawal, recovery can be much more smoother and faster.

[BaccatePlayer]

3 minutes ago, mariamisery said:

Thanks to you all!  I think I am getting better but it is very small. You don't notice much when you are feeling awful.  Wondering if it is a good sign for healing if the only thing really left is an uncomfortable feeling that somehow make me feel miserable. 

Yes, as we discussed here many times, you can prepare as much as you want but waves really skew our perception. Small changes, slow progress - this is all our reality. I think the feeling you're refering to is what I call "trap sensation". Your mind knows there's some mess left to be done inside, that something inside you is changing and you just can't stop or control it. It will pass but probably when you are very close to full recovery or if you really forget about your withdrawal (I don't think we can do it to great extent). In all cases, any symptoms disappearing is a sign your CNS is achieving stability and should be remembered as positive, but also don't let yourself be disappointed when another waves comes. Try to remember your thought patterns in a window so they can help you during difficult times.

 

Just now, Gonzo said:

It takes the time it needs to, but if nothing horrible happened along the way, like it happened to me multiple times, recovery can be much more smoother and faster.

Yes, I'm not tapering, so it's all just levothyroxine everyday since 3 months. IAR typically lasts shorter than actual WD and I'm not even 26 yet, so all that works against me is that I've been prescribed multiple meds throughout 3 years and unneccessarly listened to my doctor and took these bupropion and buspirone for four days starting on third day of my reaction. Eliminating lifting in the first week, sleeping more after New Year's Eve, eliminating sex and panic last month, it all helped, but I'm still barely making through wave days. If only brain burning, pain, those wierd panic-mood shots and the instability when I'm in standing/walking position went away...

[mariamisery]

You are so helpful. I need you all to get through the day! The description you gave as  trap  sensations is right on. Thats what it feels like. I want to get rid of it but I can't.  I just have to keep saying that it is awful!!!!.  How much can a person bear??

[mariamisery]

Gonzo and others . What do you all say to yourselves to get through the days, weeks, etc. Help please and there are not that many success stories.  Being able to communicate on this forum with you all is helping me a lot.

[Gonzo]

@mariamisery tell to yourself that this is just a crisis, crises are temporary, and withdrawal is a crisis, it's temporary, it will pass, even if you don't believe it tell it to yourself, like a mantra, all this will pass, it won't last forever. You're not abnormal nor crazy for feeling all those emotions and feelings, no matter how intense, scary and painful they are, they are logical, they make sense.

[mariamisery]

So thankful for the support!!!

[Gonzo]

Our experiences are meaningful, never forget that. Saying the opposite is saying that we are crazy, and we are not. This is real.

[Dahlia50]

@mariamisery Yes, sometimes you have to say it ”How much can a person bear?”. I try mantras and this too shall pass. But I lose it when it's at its worst. Pls dont say there are not many success storys. Need that hope. Hugs to everyone on this forum!

[mariamisery]

I mean there are a lot but not enough to read. I try to say mantras too but llke even now it is not clicking because of my misery. If possible let's support each other as much as possible through this time. We will get through this . We are so strong!!!!!

[mariamisery]

Just chatting with others who know firsthand what you are dealing with is a big help.

[Gonzo]

People that didn't experience this pain, being physical and/or emotional, simply can not understand the hell that it can be. A living nightmare.

[Dahlia50]

@Gonzo @mariamisery Totally agree with you.

[mariamisery]

WAR CRY!!!! We all will get to victory and write our success stories!!  Mind over matter!!

[mariamisery]

Does freedom come quickly, gradually or it varies?  Is there ever a time when a person doesn't recover from withdrawal?

[BaccatePlayer]

18 hours ago, mariamisery said:

You are so helpful. I need you all to get through the day! The description you gave as  trap  sensations is right on. Thats what it feels like. I want to get rid of it but I can't.  I just have to keep saying that it is awful!!!!.  How much can a person bear??

Thank you! I was working on that neediness, but also keep asking myself how much can one stand. This feeling I think is similair to a broken hand. Everytime you try to focus on it, you feel all the pain and you know you can't escape this trap immediately like you wished to. Here, we're dealing literally with our sense of self, so it's very frightening that we can't simply feel the illness being gone. So hard not to be desperate, but seems like there's really no other choice than to wait.

 

16 hours ago, Gonzo said:

People that didn't experience this pain, being physical and/or emotional, simply can not understand the hell that it can be. A living nightmare.

Yes, yesterday I resigned from voiving my frustration to my parents who still don't take it seriously. Today in the middle of mass in church, I got something like... hmmm... does this sound like depersonalization? Thoughts suddenly narrowing down to one state, the mood was very numb, feeling nothing as if forced to watch everything happening as a spectator, no access to my conscious individual thinking, everything slowing down, panic and I could only believe my body won't make a mistake. Felt totally like going crazy and I couldn't break past that little sphere. It was like the void mood, but full of strangeness and bizzare perception of everything around. Alien, scary and snaring. Is there a solution to it? One of the worst moments I can think of, probably only hallucinations would be more scary. Overall I felt insanely bad like close to snapping this morning, wierd mix of nausea, internal pain and feeling oddly unwell. Way too sharp and it's fifth or so wave day in a row. I was already declaring my mood got unaffected, but this made me hugely doubt it all. When I control my thoughts, it looks somehow in shape, but when they're being taken over... what's the hope?

 

14 hours ago, mariamisery said:

Does freedom come quickly, gradually or it varies?  Is there ever a time when a person doesn't recover from withdrawal?

Quickly - unlikely.

Gradually - that's the word used here quite often, so hold on to that.

Varies - I already experienced dozens of ups and downs varying drastically even throughout the hour, so be very open to changes.

 

I think recovery takes place all the time though obviously you need to stay away from drugs not to mess it even further. If you go through panic attacks, hard work, undersleeping, covid or something taxing for your CNS, it will likely feel worse in the moment, you'll have sharper, more frequent, longer and more painful waves which may make you believe you're in plateau or getting worse and worse. This you should also be able to normalize with time, but most people do recover eventually. Your situation, just like mine looks pretty promising providing you don't start using meds again (at least for some very long time), but you should still prepare yourself for it taking much longer than you'd like to. A lot of times when you doubt, question it all, get scared by new symptoms appearing, getting here, talking about a day being so bad when you already had a bad day yesterday, this is sadly confusing when you buy into this narrative, so remember not to spend too much time on this topic because your mind will be absolutely drained and you'll be spending windows wondering about your waves and recovery time and then waves suffering more unnecessarly.

[mariamisery]

Please let this be a better day. I hope more healing come to us all.  Hope we have the strength to just fight and keep going 

[Gonzo]

Everything will be okay.

[BaccatePlayer]

Question about reinstating: Should I even consider taking anything? On thursday there will be exactly 3 months of me having the same routine day by day which is 25mg levothyroxine and nothing else. Taking bupropion did nothing to help me and maybe even worsened my symptoms. Is the optimal path simply leaving it as it is now? I'm pretty sure it's sertraline to blame, so my guess is no point in playing with anything especially since I'm not stable yet?

[BaccatePlayer]

3 minutes ago, mariamisery said:

Please let this be a better day. I hope more healing come to us all.  Hope we have the strength to just fight and keep going 

In my case the longest I had to wait for a "better day" was 10 days. In the meantime try looking for relaxation techniques. It really doesn't want to get better when we just rely on it improving and constantly stay in the same mindset. Leave it for a while and don't let yourself believe that you can't let it stay unsupervised.

 

3 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

Everything will be okay.

I feel shaken now. As if some big change was taking place in my brain and I couldn't settle in. Barely making it in that malfunctioning, confusing body. I know it can't harm me, but staying in this state just calls for some timeout. When my stomach slows down digestion and it feels like it all staying in my throat, I just know my organism is struggling a lot under overwhelming burden.

[mariamisery]

Thanks make a lot of sense. Will try to focus on something else. Still trying to understand why in the morning I get the sensation that I can't take a full breath when I am breathing. Like my body is waiting  for something to happen. Very uncomfortable!! You are so strong and brave.  Trying to stay strong.  How long have you been on this journey? I don't remember what intro said.

Edited March 17 by mariamisery
Insert more info

[BaccatePlayer]

11 minutes ago, mariamisery said:

Thanks make a lot of sense. Will try to focus on something else. Still trying to understand why in the morning I get the sensation that I can't take a full breath when I am breathing.

Symptoms can appear out of nowhere and they don't usually make sense in personal way, so don't waste your efforts trying to "get" them because it's not your fault and you won't fix them with your thoughts anyways. This is a quick path to rumminations and making it worse. There's a topic here on morning cortisol and why evenings are usually lighter than earlier hours, but as long as you don't actually start suffocating, it's likely heartbeat and breathing sync lag meaning you may want to start a day with a massage or something that releases tension from your body. If your breathing really is jeopardised beyond feeling like it is, this may require investigation, but I had waves with such issue and it never resulted in me being out of air. Pulse got up to 90 during that time and it was clear all is happening was heart racing faster and standard breathing tempo just not being ready for it causing some phantom secondary breathout. Work on anxiety, nervousness and see if it improves.

 

18 minutes ago, mariamisery said:

Like my body is waiting  for something to happen.

Literally panic definition. I have it most of the time and when I speed up, get lost in thoughts or start doing few things at once it escalates. That's probably also why we're mentally agitated and feel like we need to lean on our responses to each other here. Sit down, maybe leave phone or whatever stimulating you have with you for a while, tell yourself you don't need to react because nothing is going wrong and picture how the future may shape. Your mind can feel there's some end or a point when you are in danger, but you know you're not, so visualize some following hours filled with tasks (dinner, bath, sleeping, going to bakery or something) and your mind should slowly adjust to time passing endlessly without you waiting for a threat. Point is, try to set your mindset onto some "scanning turned off" mode because if keep riding on enhanced tempo your mind stays in flight or fight mode without much reason and you feel like you need to be alerted against something.

 

30 minutes ago, mariamisery said:

Very uncomfortable!! You are so strong and brave.  Trying to stay strong.  How long have you been on this journey?

Yes, those are pillars of the "ill" state, your mind trying to find a fixation, a way out and you don't know why you feel differently. Thanks, I was like you some time ago and it brought me to a very bad place, but at some point affirmations just started to last longer even under symptoms burden. Today my mood is very fragile, but I'm not giving it power to shape my day. It started 16.12.2023 with quick, intense reaction to accidental dose, so I'm just starting fourth month now. All the strength you need is in you, remember those who recovered were also likely on these drugs because they are espcially anxious, depressed or otherwise neurotic. You will be alive and you're recovered at some point on the timeline, you just need to get through all the awful days and avoid drastic decisions.