BaccatePlayer: Immediate adverse reaction to sertraline

March 5

What are your expectations about recovery?

March 5

4 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

What are your expectations about recovery?

You mean the end goal? No symptoms, no trauma, feeling myself, unaltered thinking, no feelings of alienations etc. Getting back to where I had been before that basically. Obviously I wasn't fully "healthy" before that interaction, but the anxiety and other issues from that time can stay. Is that what you were asking?

March 5

Yes, I was trying to know that. Seems reasonable to me, but it's a lot of work too and it's gonna take time.

March 5

1 minute ago, Gonzo said:

Yes, I was trying to know that. Seems reasonable to me, but it's a lot of work too and it's gonna take time.

I definitelly accept that this takes time and, quotting the intro: "more than we'd like to", it's just you know, hard to keep that motivation because if I ask my brain "are we getting closer?", the answer based on how it reacts (panic) points towards not very promising conclusion. So I can't rely on how I feel in the moment and need to believe that patience pays off. What work am I missing? I eliminated stress where I could, changed my approach (I'm my bravest self now), keep myself busy with simple, single tasks, continue to avoid drugs, supplements, alcohol, fights, streneous physical activity, today even marks a month since I've been sexually active and there are no issues with my diet or sleeping routine.

March 5

I can say, it takes time and a huge amount of ups and downs. Tell yourself all the time that this is just temporary, a crisis, that your difficult, painful and overwhelming feelings and emotions are transient, don't ignore them tho, and that this is just a crisis. If you have hope, you'll recover faster and better. I know when you're in the middle of a wave suffering all kind of difficult and painful, difficult and overwhelming emotions it can be extremely hard to be hopeful, but you have to try it. Everything is normal, all what you're experiencing.

March 5

31 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

I can say, it takes time and a huge amount of ups and downs. Tell yourself all the time that this is just temporary, a crisis, that your difficult, painful and overwhelming feelings and emotions are transient, don't ignore them tho, and that this is just a crisis. If you have hope, you'll recover faster and better. I know when you're in the middle of a wave suffering all kind of difficult and painful, difficult and overwhelming emotions it can be extremely hard to be hopeful, but you have to try it. Everything is normal, all what you're experiencing.

Yes, the contrast between regular thinking and the completely biased mood is so sharp I can't believe with this much affirmations neuroemotions still feel so real. What you listed is exactly what I keep telling myself, I wouldn't normally mind feeling gloom or anxious, but the panic simply brings pain now, literal physical suffering because it pulls various strings and activates incredibly wierd symptoms. Peak of waves is brain burning, strong tinnitus, lagging processing of what's going on around, jumpscares, thoughts so wierd that I don't even know what to think, all this at once and I still have to find enough strength to prevent panicking or rumminations. Weak memory is not that scary but when a casual thought of my aunt and grandma opens some limbo of cosmic awareness that feels wierd and frightening, then I really question my sanity and don't even know how to react or what will be next. Feels like all those mushrooms trips people talk about. I just focus on my family then, look at them with focus and remind myself who I am to drag myself out of this estrangement. This derealized, bent thinking and perception started exactly a month ago and I hope it will end ASAP. Overall I hope it won't last more than another month cause I already drained both myself and my surrounding almost fully with my suffering. Thanks a lot for the feedback! It's really easy to turn up into a down, but so hard to turn down into up.

March 5

No matter how bad you feel your emotions and feelings are temporary, specially when you're in a safe place surrounded by good, healthy people.

March 5

Thanks I hope I am strong enough to bear this.

March 5

@BaccatePlayer, repeat!!! This to shall pass, this too shall pass, over and over, it temporary!!! With that said, everyone here can relate to what waves do to us!

I send you strength, courage, and love to fight through another day! 💕💕🙏🏻🙏🏻

March 5

Tell to yourself this is just a crisis. We have been there. It sucks but it's temporary!

March 5

Hello Baccate Player. I like what Gonzo said, keep telling yourself "This too shall pass". I tell myself this when I'm in a wave. There is a thing called radical acceptance. It means that we accept that this is our reality right now, and we don't try to fight it. We just accept it, even though it is unfair and is painful. Because fighting it and refusing to accept it just adds another layer of pain and misery. Check this out:

Radical Acceptance

Acceptance will help with the anxiety.

Also, this post is really helpful. I don't remember if I've given you this before.

Techniques for Managing Withdrawal

You might try working some more on non drug coping skills. There are many of them! This link is chock full of them.

Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

Please keep telling yourself, that this is only temporary, because it truly is. This is a test of patience and endurance, and when you come out of this, you will have developed mental toughness and skills that will serve you well for the rest of your life.

Edited March 5 by getofflex

March 6

19 hours ago, Gonzo said:

No matter how bad you feel your emotions and feelings are temporary, specially when you're in a safe place surrounded by good, healthy people.

That's definitelly what turns out to be true. It's just sad that best moments still include symptoms and that specific omnipresent feeling of sickness. The struggle of having, say 80% intensity symptom on a non-wave day and waiting usually an hour or two only to realize it drops to, for example 40% and won't go any lower for long time as of now. I guess it got significantly better, but if mood is strong then it overshadows everything even if it could have been even stronger in the past.

19 hours ago, mariamisery said:

Thanks I hope I am strong enough to bear this.

Hello Maria! I hope you're having enough patience and resources to go through anything, no matter how odd, painful or long.

19 hours ago, Kaylaq said:

BaccatePlayer, repeat!!! This to shall pass, this too shall pass, over and over, it temporary!!! With that said, everyone here can relate to what waves do to us!

I send you strength, courage, and love to fight through another day! 💕💕🙏🏻🙏🏻

Thank you so much, kind soul! There were many moments in the past week when I was in the middle of dinner, watching sports or cleaning and I kept telling myself that I will continue and what I feel inside will change in a while when I check it next time. 1-2 hours is usually enough for my state to change, even in the worst symptom bombing. I appreciate that you understand, there's nothing worse in pain than feeling alone.

18 hours ago, Gonzo said:

Tell to yourself this is just a crisis. We have been there. It sucks but it's temporary!

Wish there was a memory replicating healthy state to regain hope in worst moments because in the exact downer point of wave telling yourself it will be different with time feels like lying to yourself and invalidating your perception. Then again, better that than catastrophizing.

14 hours ago, getofflex said:

Hello Baccate Player. I like what Gonzo said, keep telling yourself "This too shall pass". I tell myself this when I'm in a wave. There is a thing called radical acceptance. It means that we accept that this is our reality right now, and we don't try to fight it. We just accept it, even though it is unfair and is painful. Because fighting it and refusing to accept it just adds another layer of pain and misery. Check this out:

Radical Acceptance

Acceptance will help with the anxiety.

Also, this post is really helpful. I don't remember if I've given you this before.

Techniques for Managing Withdrawal

You might try working some more on non drug coping skills. There are many of them! This link is chock full of them.

Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

Please keep telling yourself, that this is only temporary, because it truly is. This is a test of patience and endurance, and when you come out of this, you will have developed mental toughness and skills that will serve you well for the rest of your life.

Things slowly started improving since I tried to restore my external life and stopped stressing over solutions. Not sure if this is good way, but I don't try to deal with anxiety and panic anymore, just acting like nothing happens inside and focus on pushing through "what would 2022 baccate say/do now?" and since these feelings/thoughts are temporary, they may as well be went through in any way. Previous monday I started having more normal thoughts like music videos, cartoons, holidays, some positive vibes and it slowly takes over my worries throughout the days. No more nightmares. I wake up with affirming narration in my head, started having wet dreams, meaning even if I don't control my thoughts, they stay on more rational, real life ground by default.

I feel I am close to an end of this, it just changes very rapidly. I may learn how to deal with a symptom, a wave passes and this symptom is replaced/evolved requiring yet different approach. Most symptoms though I just try to ignore not to even become too aware of them and this seems to push me further faster. Days keep passing quicker now though I still count them. I came across radical acceptance and I use it mostly (except for some thoughts like "however long it takes" or "even if psychosis appears" cause I'd do myself more harm than good now with accepting these) which turned anxiety into more of a frustration, uncomfortable, wierd and disappointing feelings, but even with that confidence I'm mostly carried by the promise of it being for very short period.

I appreciate the links, it's just that identifying my symptoms is a big challenge now. They really just boil down to "something feels off and it gives me discomfort". I use the Glen Mullen's list you posted, but matching the symptoms is simply difficult. Wierd thoughts, jumpscare bombs, feeling alienated, uncomfortable when reaching some level of focus - what would that be? Derealization? Anxiety and panic? Cognitive issues? Not much coping to be done here, I just stay in touch with supportive people, sleep, drink and eat well, use reassuring narrative and avoid stress, substances or rumminations. Even my mindset is quite stoic now, I just don't want bearing it to become a lifestyle cause I'd turn myself crazy if it was june or august and I was still repeating "it will pass" in response to a wave. Just wait until the internal matches my current external I guess.

March 6

When we are overwhelmed and hijacked by these extremely intense emotions and feelings we feel doomed to be like that forever, but it's normal, that's their messages, they're catastrophic messages, but not accurate descriptions of reality. In my opinion these feelings and emotions are in many cases postraumatic feelings and emotions, they come from unprocessed traumas that withdrawal made resurface, so they're like old messages, they tell the truth but they don't need to be accurate descriptions of the present time reality, in fact, the drugs numb all these feelings and emotions so they're just coming back. The more you normalize them the less time they will stay and the less time they'll be.

March 6

@Gonzo that is the belief I’m trying to work on, to do the deeper healing as these emotions surface so intensely.
thank you for your insights. 👍🏼🙏

@getofflex thank you for the links, it lead to another posting with good insight also 👍🏼🙏

March 6

Crisis are temporary and withdrawals are crises. That should be our mantra.

March 6

Absolutely 👍🏼

March 7

22 hours ago, Gonzo said:

When we are overwhelmed and hijacked by these extremely intense emotions and feelings we feel doomed to be like that forever, but it's normal, that's their messages, they're catastrophic messages, but not accurate descriptions of reality. In my opinion these feelings and emotions are in many cases postraumatic feelings and emotions, they come from unprocessed traumas that withdrawal made resurface, so they're like old messages, they tell the truth but they don't need to be accurate descriptions of the present time reality, in fact, the drugs numb all these feelings and emotions so they're just coming back. The more you normalize them the less time they will stay and the less time they'll be.

Two decent days and... Another attack. We were having coffee with my family and suddenly some wierd mood took over me, I felt trapped, unable to get out of it and I felt pain and panic. Overall suffering with no clear source (not a headache, not stomachache, just huge discomfort inside) and the opposite of what I felt during previous attack aka as if I couldn't access the external. Stuck in that painful sphere, can't think of anything outside of it. Maybe I rumminated too much... Still lasting, maybe less so, but I keep waiting.

I'd say it was way less intense than last one, but still out of control, nasty and upsetting. Totally didn't expect that since it isn't even a wave now, or maybe it is? I took a nap because back of my head was hurting, now I'm heavily nauseaous, probably because such overloads usually stall my digestion and slow down my thinking.

I'm on a walk now, trying to cool down, but it was such "another dimension" experience, really felt like stuck in alternate reality. I was barely navigating myself. I knew it will pass and I knew I won't collapse or die or anything, but being in this state after having similair storm three days ago, I can't take it anymore... One week more and I'll hit 3 months in total, why is it still putting me in life or death situations and unbearable pain? I know those with immediate adverse reactions are "probably most unlucky ones with potentially desperate and violent thoughts" according to post here, but this really is uncopeable. I know how I felt three hours ago and that baccate would not be able to even access any affirmations. I'd have to teach my mom how to deal with it or something but this still doesn't solve much...

March 8

Everything that you described in that last post is normal, logical, it makes sense, even if it's painful, overwhelming and confusing. Keep going. You're strong.

March 8

4 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

Everything that you described in that last post is normal, logical, it makes sense, even if it's painful, overwhelming and confusing. Keep going. You're strong.

That day was such a powerful mood shift. 05.03 and 06.03 were really good days, not asymptomatic but really felt like finally in three weeks that sense of chemical burden dropped to manageable point. What happened yesterday was unexpected. I blamed my terrible mood on morning and it smoothly transitioned into that imbalanced sphere building up so much that it bursted with something like panic attack except I wasn't panicking, just squeezing myself from pain. It's also second time in a row where once something like this ends I'm hit with heavily depressed mood and I mean such aggressive that I complained to everyone I'm in touch with and was very suicidal. Now I don't even know how could I be in such state, but probably not much I could do differently back then.

Still, very prone to panic today. Literally was fighting with my mood in the morning, thought it will shoot me again, but after a few temptations I got over it so far. The mood of brain pushing me out of some parts of my mind was still there, it eased up for a while with great relief, then it came back, but I think it slowly catches balance again.

Overall if I should count this as a wave, it was much shorter and today it really takes just 1-2 hours for symptoms to pass, I have some default established point which only includes some symptoms (brain burning, ultra low panic thereshold, mild flashes, maybe some wierd thoughts and agitation because negatively I feel brutally defeated, but positively I get "gonna jump out of my skin" attitude towards it getting better) and it does feel like huge improvement. I just need to avoid "giving in" to that panic today which is a matter of one wrong thought.

I seem to be in a phase when mood is the main target and aside from a few symptoms that occur in intervals it really is only a matter of that. Maybe there's actually something in that 1-5 weeks timeline my friends asked me to wait out more. I stopped having the most frightening symptoms and it slowly feels like regular panic and anxiety again. My head is very delicate now, so I won't be scrapping that for too long, but I may really be close.

Thank you for patience! I failed to realize it was just a mood yesterday and started whinning to pretty much everyone around forgetting that such states are insatiable and need to be waited out.

March 8

It's normal. When we are immersed in such waves we lost perspective, reality gets distorted and we can become crazy trapped in these cognitive dissonances, I know it very well. You got this.

March 9

On 3/7/2024 at 8:20 AM, BaccatePlayer said:

We were having coffee with my family and suddenly some wierd mood took over me, I felt trapped, unable to get out of it and I felt pain and panic.

It is likely the caffeine in the coffee, which is very activating that caused these symptoms. I suggest you avoid caffeine.

March 12

On 3/8/2024 at 4:26 PM, Gonzo said:

It's normal. When we are immersed in such waves we lost perspective, reality gets distorted and we can become crazy trapped in these cognitive dissonances, I know it very well. You got this.

Just recovering after a wave. First day it was all kind of mental torture scaring me that it will burst into uncontrollable attack, but it didn't. Next day such a depressed mood and insatiable need for reassurance. Today morning I was pushed so badly with these wierd thoughts, states and moods that I felt in the edge until it finally started to lose intensity in the afternoon. I slept through most of it until breathing lags made it difficult. Still unstable.

On 3/9/2024 at 2:23 PM, getofflex said:

It is likely the caffeine in the coffee, which is very activating that caused these symptoms. I suggest you avoid caffeine.

No caffeine. I double checked and there is really nothing in it. I wouldn't dare risking having caffeine in my body. I remember both this wave and previous ones. Trust me, I'd resign from anything if I knew it would make even slightest difference... except rumminations. I can't stop it no matter what. If I distract myself, it's just rumminations with multitasking in the background.

I have questions...

1) Desperation - my thoughts are very impatient. I try not to rumminate, but I simply can't. I can eat, have a bath, draw and it still drags me so badly that I don't even recognize real life anymore. My mind is such a comfort freak that it just simply can't allow anything as long as any obstacle is on the way. Is this such harmful?

2) Timeline - I passed the article from here to my friend and asked how long it takes to recover. They said according to it, it's technically around a year, but the fog of it persists to like 5-7 month with 3-4 months being time when it approximately stops being this severe. That's taking into account my circumstances which are, pretty much on all planes more favourable than other cases. What I wonder is, are there phases or some more linear milestones here? Some symptoms are gone by now, some appeared at some point, can new ones still appear? How to even tell where I am with that? Sorry, but I can't just go on without knowing it, even if bigger ranges. 2-3 weeks means something different than 1-2 months which means even something else than 3-6 months. If I compare this week to previous one and to yet previous one it is on the decline, but still I'm barely making it. Does it just randomly cycle symptoms and then drops dead or will it gradually steep slope in the pace that I can eyeball based on previous weeks?

3) Helplessness - moods are unbeaten no matter how hard I prepare. Is there anything I can do to help myself? Or does it all have to happen and there's no way around it? I'm not even saying waves, cause EVERY day of this is fighting for survival. Not even single traces of life. I question whether I can bear it everytime, numerous times during the day, feel like exploding at any moment if I don't compose myself right away. It actually feels like the damage was loading up until now and now it became more "structured" and solid. How long is the helplessness phase? I know it gets better, but it's far from anything resembling life yet, even when not in wave. Are people really this scared and immobilized like me and if so, how long?

March 12

13 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

1. Desperation--as others have said, this is normal in WD. This is the result of ruminations and negative thought cycles.

2. Timeline. There really isn't one. Everyone recovers at a different rate, but the important thing to remember is that everyone can recover. You measure progress by your ability to manage your WD symptoms and use coping tools. You're already experiencing windows so you know recovery is possible and attainable.

17 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

3) Helplessness - moods are unbeaten no matter how hard I prepare. Is there anything I can do to help myself?

Yes, In fact this is the only way you're going to recover. There are no external events, aides or people who will get you through this. Its up to you. There are coping methods but you have to practice them. There's therapy but you have to use the therapist's advice. There are mindfulness calming routines to break the negative thought cycle and bring yourself into the present, but you need to set the intention to stick with them.

Right now, you are in one of two modes: 1) experiencing a wave and trying to survive, or 2) waiting for the next wave. Its not your fault--that's the way the anxious mind works and maintains its power. But these feelings will not go away by themselves; you have to make a commitment to tell yourself "For the next five minutes, I will practice physical and mental calming no matter what. If mind drifts back to ruminations, I will just bring it back to mindfulness without judgement." And you have to keep doing that as many times a day as it takes to help you feel some relief. Its not easy and being kind to yourself is key, but you can do it.

March 12

10 minutes ago, mstimc said:

Yes, In fact this is the only way you're going to recover. There are no external events, aides or people who will get you through this. Its up to you. There are coping methods but you have to practice them. There's therapy but you have to use the therapist's advice. There are mindfulness calming routines to break the negative thought cycle and bring yourself into the present, but you need to set the intention to stick with them.

Right now, you are in one of two modes: 1) experiencing a wave and trying to survive, or 2) waiting for the next wave. Its not your fault--that's the way the anxious mind works and maintains its power. But these feelings will not go away by themselves; you have to make a commitment to tell yourself "For the next five minutes, I will practice physical and mental calming no matter what. If mind drifts back to ruminations, I will just bring it back to mindfulness without judgement." And you have to keep doing that as many times a day as it takes to help you feel some relief. Its not easy and being kind to yourself is key, but you can do it.

Wait, so it won't fix itself? Waves and symptoms won't go away on their own with time? It will always be like that and it's only a matter of me managing it?

March 12

Just now, BaccatePlayer said:

Wait, so it won't fix itself? Waves and symptoms won't go away on their own with time? It will always be like that and it's only a matter of me managing it?

That is not what I said. You have to proactively manage them to get them to stop controlling your thought habits. There's no way for them to "go away by themselves" if you continue to engage in thought patterns that support ruminating. Right now, you are allowing your negative thoughts to make these symptoms last. You need to flip the script and start working in positive thought behaviors.

March 12

I think mindfulness is an individualistic approach. I'm against individualistic approaches. My advice is, when you're going through an overwhelming wave come here and writte us about it so we can support you, or try to explain your feelings to someone else, someone that makes you feel understood, seen, etc. But yes, waves are part of the recovery process. Tell to yourself that they're temporary, that they don't last forever, so that way they become a bit less distressing and they last less. I'd say don't fight against the feelings and emotions, they're there for a reason, even if you don't understand yet, accept them even if they're painful, waves are like crises and crises are temporary events.

March 12

30 minutes ago, mstimc said:

That is not what I said. You have to proactively manage them to get them to stop controlling your thought habits. There's no way for them to "go away by themselves" if you continue to engage in thought patterns that support ruminating. Right now, you are allowing your negative thoughts to make these symptoms last. You need to flip the script and start working in positive thought behaviors.

You mean writing down my negative thoughts and reconstructing them, so they replace current mindset and create a bridge from redundant ones to reality?

32 minutes ago, Gonzo said:

I think mindfulness is an individualistic approach. I'm against individualistic approaches. My advice is, when you're going through an overwhelming weave come here and writte us about it so we can support you, or try to explain your feelings to someone else, someone that makes you feel understood, seen, etc. But yes, weaves and part of the recovery process. Tell to yourself that they're temporary, that they don't last forever, so that way they become a bit less distressing.

Mindfulness seem to be hit or miss for me. It's similair to breathing. If I feel dragged out of my mind, derealized, then focusing on my surrounding, calling my family by their names sort of restores my composure, but oftentimes when I deliberately try to steer my attention it doubles with what symptom already does and creates secondary anxiety just like breathing often does. I usually either post here or tell my friends when I'm in wave, the symptoms fluctuate a lot but here's a pattern I gathered lately:

Day 1: Rumminations get more intense and my regular getting into a day routine doesn't affect it, so I recognize something is wrong. Later symptoms smoothly persist more strongly, usually there are some other ones I didn't had and it either keeps me close that stormy breakdown under pain or I actually snap (that's why I rest more during both waves and other days).

Day 2: My mood drops to such depression that I feel insanely broken. Literally my biggest wishes could come true and I will be there closed in a cloud of biased reactions. No matter how many times people reassure me, it doesn't make the cut.

Day 3: Both symptoms and mood states persist so badly I start to think I can't make it until it literally poofs after around four hours since I wake up. I get reccuring panics and worries for a while and in the evening it slowly stabilizes.

The mantra of "it will pass soon" was more or less present throughout the wave, I didn't lose that reminder and seems like my mind secures it during waves lately. There are just two of my friends who understand these issues and there's this forum, I definitelly don't shy away from sharing my struggles. Thanks for showing up quickly, I'm currently trying to set the right track back again because it took me into a wierd state, skewed my attitude towards regular activities again and I want to spend next days in a way that stress me as little as possible and keep my thoughts straight so that next potential wave has as little tax from previous days as possible.

March 12

Yes, look for support, that's the greatest advice IMHO. People need to realize that mindfulness is basically compartimentalization, so when you're stuck in your head in the middle of a wave sometimes is not the best idea. Talking to people that are supportive and understanding instead is a better way to practice grounding.

March 12

2 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

I try not to rumminate, but I simply can't.

2 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Is this such harmful?

Not at all. Thoughts cannot harm you. I suggest you use this technique. I use it a lot. It doesn't stop the thoughts, but it assigns a lot less importance to them, and will remove the anxiety that they can cause if you worry about them. Please see them as harmless noise in your mind, which is what they are.

Acknowledge Accept Float

APPLE Technique

I just came across a very nice technique that really helps me. It's called APPLE. I have printed it and have it where I can see it every day and be reminded of it so I internalize this technique.

A - Acknowledge Notice and acknowledge the thought or uncertainty as it comes to mind.

P - Pause Don't react as you normally do. Don't react at all. Just pause and breathe.

P - Pull Back Tell yourself this is just the thought or worry talking, and this apparent need for worry or analysis or certainty is not helpful and not necessary. It is only a thought or feeling. Don't believe everything you think. Thoughts are not statements or facts.

L - Let Go Let go of the thought or feeling. It will pass. You don't have to respond to it. You might imagine the thought floating away in a bubble or cloud.

E - Explore Explore the present moment, because right now, in this moment, you are OK. Notice your breathing and the sensations of your breathing. Notice the ground beneath you. Look around and notice what you see, what you hear, what you can touch, what you can smell. Right now. Then shift your focus of attention to something else - on what you need to do, on what you were doing before you noticed the thought or worry, or do something else - mindfully - with your full attention.

As to how long for recovery, and what to expect, we recover in a nonlinear fashion with windows and waves - windows being good times, waves being bad. In spite of windows and waves, you will feel better overall as time goes on. Please read these links.

WD Normal

How Long is Withdrawal Going to Take

2 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

3) Helplessness - moods are unbeaten no matter how hard I prepare. Is there anything I can do to help myself?

Yes, there is. I strongly suggest reading the success stories on this forum. Go to the home page, then select the link that says list of forums. All these people have recovered, so tell yourself "I will recover". Because you will. Your body and brain will heal itself in time, as long as you don't throw more psych drugs at it. Choose to be optimistic. I also suggest you take walks outside, if you are able. This will increase endorphins, which are natural mood lifters. The natural light will help, too. And for me, developing a strong spiritual life is very important to helping with depression.

Edited March 12 by getofflex

March 13

@BaccatePlayer, thank you, your posts are helping me a lot! I keep reading your advice to get through to my brain, that I have to make these changes, that the tools are there but I have to use them to make a difference in this process. I do get caught up in the ruminations, and you advice helps me to refocus my thoughts.

thank you, thank you, 😊

March 13

12 hours ago, Gonzo said:

Yes, look for support, that's the greatest advice IMHO. People need to realize that mindfulness is basically compartimentalization, so when you're stuck in your head in the middle of a wave sometimes is not the best idea. Talking to people that are supportive and understanding instead is a better way to practice grounding.

I try to talk to others as much as I can. Not my usual element, but I feel enhanced need to be supported since that reaction. I woke up with terrible, pressure-like headaches that were dangerously close to me snapping under pain and possibly panicking or intensifying it. Nausea and panic were felt with closer look, but I just slowly started the day and when I was shopping with parents I started feeling very fainty, like completely losing it. Mindfulness? Turns out probably not optimal idea in that situation. It was as if the activity in my brain increased causing me to go some energy-saving mode for a while. If you know what I mean something has just being done in my head, something big and it couldn't let me focus on my surrounding, so I just kept waiting in that 3/4 conscious state trying not to panic. I think if I was forcing myself to sharpen my attention, it would be worse cause my brain would have to deal with two burdens at once. That's a symptom? Or just some neurotransmitters regulation peak?

12 hours ago, getofflex said:

Not at all. Thoughts cannot harm you. I suggest you use this technique. I use it a lot. It doesn't stop the thoughts, but it assigns a lot less importance to them, and will remove the anxiety that they can cause if you worry about them. Please see them as harmless noise in your mind, which is what they are.

That's good. I was wondering because some thoughts are triggers for feeling odd, alien, disconnected in my case. I just don't want my conscious thoughts to stress myself causing symptoms to worsen or prolonging recovery. I will try this technique because telling myself "it won't be like that in a while, it won't harm you" sounds way different during wave and outside wave day.

12 hours ago, getofflex said:

I just came across a very nice technique that really helps me. It's called APPLE. I have printed it and have it where I can see it every day and be reminded of it so I internalize this technique.

I'm gonna collect all the tips you guys share and try to make a guide out of them based on circumstances. General approaches seem to work better for me because the symptoms really went through some uncomfortable transformations lately. It kinda feels like they morph into some variants like hot head became brain burning and now I feel it tries to become chemically-burdening-headache or something (I had that one at the early stages of my reaction, so maybe it reached peak and goes back to default slowly?) with the same thing applying to balance issues and other ones (drunk sight becoming flashes etc). The cycles of my brain having some shifts causing it to feel like it overloads push me to rest a lot. Someone on the main waves topic said if they work more during window, a wave is then longer or harder.

12 hours ago, getofflex said:

As to how long for recovery, and what to expect, we recover in a nonlinear fashion with windows and waves - windows being good times, waves being bad. In spite of windows and waves, you will feel better overall as time goes on. Please read these links.

The links I've seen quite a bit of times and they generally convey two conclusions:

1) When comparing certain periods WDnormal improves meaning the average of my state gets better with time even if windows and waves fluctuate my perception of it. Maybe I was too stressed and too deep in the mood dictated by my symptoms in February to see it then, but I agree it likely gets less intense with more days passing on average. It also looks more promising when I compare waves alone to waves and windows separately to windows.

What bothers me is that windows are definitelly better times but not really what I'd call good times. Is it normal to have some symptoms all the time even during non-wave days? Mainly the feeling of brain being gripped, sense of being trapped, "ill" or fever-like state of nerves, normal thoughts provoking some feelings of estrangement and disconnection and obviously some minor ones cycling throughout every day?

2) That roughly puts average time of recovery somewhere in 3-18 months which is quite wide of a margin. May recover this week, may as well have symptoms whole year long. I'm not even reading the comments contemplating cases where someone took one pill and has symptoms like 20 years later cause that's nothing but snowballing anxiety in my case now. Most of variables in my circumstances play to my favor but still would be better to know more precisely. Friends say next month should see big improvement and if not definitelly by summer. I'm subject to heavy moods now, so I don't listen to my mind too much, but if it can fluctuate this greatly then I would believe anything now.

Regarding factors... Does this matter that I've been probably overmedicated as a child? Overdiagnosed with allergies, stuffed with antibiotics, heavier meds etc? I also had similair attack (few hours of intense wave-like sudden storm almost like the onset of this reaction but it faded when I woke up next day immediately and I stopped taking anything for few days then) few months prior when I introduced more magnessium, zinc, B6 alongside already taken bupropion and selenium with iodine. Could this been a warning signal that my CNS is collapsing? Can taking levothyroxine making it worse now?

8 hours ago, Kaylaq said:

@BaccatePlayer, thank you, your posts are helping me a lot! I keep reading your advice to get through to my brain, that I have to make these changes, that the tools are there but I have to use them to make a difference in this process. I do get caught up in the ruminations, and you advice helps me to refocus my thoughts.

thank you, thank you, 😊

I also want to thank you for all the support! I aim to be completely honest and raw about how it really is and then seek solutions for all of it. I think rumminations tendencies can be used better to put our focus on troubleshooting, so if our brains want to go through many perspectives and fixate on something, maybe we should just pick up a problem and brainstorm improvements? That way we're working on something productive and keep our racing thoughts out of symptoms and moods.

March 13

Guide I designed for myself:

Accept that your symptoms are likely caused by withdrawal and your nervous system healing, rather than a serious underlying illness. Reassure yourself that any tests have come back clear and no symptom lead to actual problem.
Avoid seeking answers on the internet, as this will often lead down a rabbit hole of worrying about rare diseases. Information found online tends to exaggerate symptoms and scare people. Don't read other people stories here as this will only scare you more since most success stories here report very long recovery times which is the strongest and probably main fuel for panic right now.
Try distraction techniques like guided meditation, relaxation exercises, enjoyable hobbies and activities to take your mind off worrying thoughts.
Challenge irrational thoughts by acknowledging the evidence that tests show nothing is physically wrong, and it's normal to feel unwell during withdrawal even without an explanation. Don't try to make sense of symptoms since there are no. The rules of the brain hell would give you no solutions but more worries.
Speak to others who understand what you're going through on forums like this. Their shared experiences can help normalize your symptoms. Remember nobody is judging you and they know how people react with fear, desperation and anger in face of challenges like this.
Consider seeking help from cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) which can help change thought patterns that fuel anxiety and worry. You already have some experience from your last therapy.
Make self-care a priority with a healthy lifestyle involving diet, walks, sleep and social support. Reducing stress generally helps recovery.
Accept that healing takes time and be patient with yourself. Continually reassuring that "this too shall pass" can provide comfort during bad days. Remember that it can very well end within days, next weeks and even if it's not completely gone, it will be more sustainable as the time passes.
Identifying triggers - Learning what triggers one's emotional spirals so they can be prepared and catch it early when those situations arise. If you're vulnerable in a wave - avoid it. If feeling more stable - challenge them.
Defusing the situation - If an emotional spiral is starting, taking steps to calm oneself like walking away from a confrontation or interaction.
Changing the channel - Redirecting one's thoughts away from ruminating on the trigger or escalating emotions. Shifting mental focus to something else like a task, activity, sports in TV etc.
Going on with life after a spiral - Moving past the event once the emotions have calmed, not dwelling on it further to avoid retriggering the spiral. Later analyzing objectively to learn from it.
Deep breathing and relaxation techniques - Should help regain control of physical reactions when changing the mental channel.
Seeing spirals as a common symptom - Normalizing them and viewing them as something that can be managed rather than a personal failing.
Practice and learning from experience - Noting that controlling spirals takes self-awareness developed through going through the cycle repeatedly and refining one's techniques.
Accepting symptoms as temporary and naming them as such, rather than believing they indicate illness or permanence.
Reminding oneself that symptoms are caused by medication/withdrawal, not by any inherent defect.
Setting boundaries and prioritizing self-care, including removing stressful factors where possible.
Seeking reassurance from supportive others when distressed by symptoms.
Challenging thoughts that symptoms will last forever (eternity thinking) by noting their history of change over time.
Reminding oneself of available coping resources and techniques for managing symptoms.
Slowly relaxing the body through gentle encouragement and deep breathing.
Resisting the urge to catastrophize or drastically respond to symptoms.
Allowing oneself to grieve losses from the experience.
Being patient through the unpredictable recovery process.
Acknowledge - Become aware of and get to know the physical and emotional feelings associated with the anxiety/symptoms.
Accept - Accept that these feelings are currently part of your experience and may persist for some time. There is nothing that can be done to immediately change or get rid of them.
Float - Allow the feelings to "float" or pass by without getting caught up in them or struggling against them. Basically ignore the feelings and distract yourself by getting on with daily activities as much as able.
Meditation and mindfulness techniques like mindful breathing for anxiety and worry.
Yoga poses like legs against the wall pose.
Epsom salt baths.
Spending time in nature through activities like gardening.
Engaging with pets for their unconditional love and acceptance.
Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) techniques like challenging irrational thoughts.
Dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) techniques like radical acceptance.
Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis.
Getting involved in activities like helping others or volunteering to take one's mind off own problems.
Journaling and writing to process emotions.
Practicing forgiveness and letting go of self-criticism and blame.
Connecting with others through support groups or by helping friends in need.
Changing environment, habits, routines to facilitate healing. Even a simple change of pace can help.
Approaching symptoms with acceptance rather than fighting them.
Distraction techniques like keeping busy or changing channels of thought.
Art therapy and music therapy.
Maintaining hope and perspective during difficult times.
Practice relaxation techniques like deep breathing, yoga poses, meditation, muscle relaxation.
Engage in light activity if you feel like to help manage anxiety and restless sensations.
Establish a healthy sleep routine and avoid screens/blue light before bed.
Remember you can't go backwards with your recovery. Since you don't use any meds now, it only gets better even if it doesn't seem like.
Practice cognitive behavioral techniques like thought challenging for anxious thoughts.
Use distraction methods like listening to calming music, journaling emotions.
Spend time in nature for its mood boosting effects through activities like playing with cats in garden.
Connect with others through support groups or helping friends to shift focus from own problems.
Maintain hope, see crises as temporary and recognize small improvements.
Manage morning cortisol surge with relaxation upon waking to reduce anxiety spikes.
Accept symptoms with radical acceptance rather than fighting unpleasant feelings.
Consult doctors knowledgeable about withdrawal for diagnosis and safety monitoring (probably online cause there no such in Nowy Sącz).
Practice tai chi or yoga for deep breathing exercises and measured breathing to relax the body and calm the mind.
Incorporate daily full-body relaxation routines and mental calming activities like meditation or mindfulness.
Use Exposure Response Prevention (ERP) by gradually exposing yourself to anxiety-provoking stimuli to overcome fears and anxieties.
Apply radical acceptance by allowing uncomfortable feelings and sensations to exist without judgment.
When symptoms arise, react by letting go and not fighting or fixating on them.
Challenge negative thought patterns by writing them down and disputing irrational beliefs.
Employ techniques from Claire Weekes' method of anxiety management such as worrying only at set times.
Maintain a positive outlook knowing that symptoms will continue to decrease and improvement lasts a lifetime.
Find perspective by recognizing ups and downs as waves that weaken overall with time.
Connect with others through helping, listening and spending time with supporting people.
Focus on gratitude, relationships and life blessings rather than dwelling on minor differences.
Draw strength and hope from recovery stories or comments of others who struggled but prevailed.
Consider spiritual/religious practices for added meaning, acceptance and hope.
Set boundaries for self-care, maintain routine activities, stay hydrated and go for walks.

March 14

23 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Is it normal to have some symptoms all the time even during non-wave days?

Yes.

23 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

2) That roughly puts average time of recovery somewhere in 3-18 months which is quite wide of a margin. May recover this week, may as well have symptoms whole year long.

I wouldn't try to predict how long it will take you to recover. I suggest you take each day as it comes, and stay in the present moment. It will be easier on you this way.

23 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

I'm not even reading the comments contemplating cases where someone took one pill and has symptoms like 20 years later cause that's nothing but snowballing anxiety in my case now.

This is a big outlier. I suspect that almost no one would take 20 years to recover from 1 pill, unless there were other issues going on as well.

23 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Friends say next month should see big improvement and if not definitelly by summer.

Yes, the good thing about this is even though it takes a lot of time to recover, we do gradually get better and better.

23 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Does this matter that I've been probably overmedicated as a child?

It depends. Were you given psychiatric meds as a child? If so, then the main thing we see with that is that people don't really have a baseline of what they were like as an adult without psych drugs. They will probably need to spend more time learning life skills. However, recovery is still fully possible, and many have recovered.

23 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Could this been a warning signal that my CNS is collapsing? Can taking levothyroxine making it worse now?

No, and no. It sounds like a wave. I take levothyroxine, and it doesn't hurt me at all. But then, I was on it before I went through WD.

March 14

You've done a fanstastic job of learning non drug coping techniques! Excellent work. These skills will serve you well throughout the rest of your life.

March 14

7 minutes ago, getofflex said:

Yes.

That's reassuring. I always have that sense of some chemical sphere "crowding" my brain and putting some layer on my body (kinda like feeling fever differs from healthy body, just more severe here). Right now it's about 30%, but when it puts my normal feeling of self in shadow I need to keep telling myself my brain is lying to me because during waves it controls me so much that I feel like taken from life to some closed sphere where everything seems like a trigger and I can't access reassurance from thinking about, for example flowers or music videos. I've been pulled to this wierd mood/state today twice in drugstore and shop but it luckily didn't last more than few minutes.

15 minutes ago, getofflex said:

I wouldn't try to predict how long it will take you to recover. I suggest you take each day as it comes, and stay in the present moment. It will be easier on you this way.

Yes, I wouldn't want to go completely insane looking at the calendar and disappointing myself so many times. It's more of a hope that I'll eventually go through a whole week and then declare "Alright, this was frustrating, but now I have confidence in getting through something like this again even if it was the same level of intensity". Right now I sort of try to figure out what to expect so I don't react with panic and am waiting until even waves drop in intensity to certain level.

24 minutes ago, getofflex said:

This is a big outlier. I suspect that almost no one would take 20 years to recover from 1 pill, unless there were other issues going on as well.

That's a big relief. I found IAR post here where a woman was feeling pretty decent at 8 month mark, but still talked about waves after a year. A bit of success story, but also a bit of upset. Then again, I only know waves as they are now. Maybe 8 months in, the waves are more of a mood swings with headaches or something. Not to mention they may appear like once every two weeks for one day or only when triggered by excessive stress. Time will show, but I'm scared of working out, taking meds, even painkillers and sex for now.

32 minutes ago, getofflex said:

Yes, the good thing about this is even though it takes a lot of time to recover, we do gradually get better and better.

Hopefully. Typical serotonin-based symptoms like hot flushes or insomnia ended in January, then there were more wierd ones skewing thinking, cognition, memory and now it's mostly mood (depression, anxiety, panic, hyperalertedness, hyperexcitability, mental agitation, trapping mood states) and typically neurological stuff (unidentified pain, wierd changes in brain, feeling like surrounding or movements are processed with struggle, lagging, various intense unpleasant feelings, jumpscares with no way of describing or locating them). Still doubting if I can make it even during windows but that's still the only life I have.

35 minutes ago, getofflex said:

It depends. Were you given psychiatric meds as a child? If so, then the main thing we see with that is that people don't really have a baseline of what they were like as an adult without psych drugs. They will probably need to spend more time learning life skills. However, recovery is still fully possible, and many have recovered.

I hadn't taken any psychiatric drugs then though I was directed to psychiatrist by child psychologist. I mostly mean heavy meds for allergy (not steroids though) and antibiotics.

37 minutes ago, getofflex said:

No, and no. It sounds like a wave. I take levothyroxine, and it doesn't hurt me at all. But then, I was on it before I went through WD.

Oh... so I had a wave during holidays last year with no next wave/symptoms until that immediate adverse reaction in December? I... complicated things? Levothyroxine since 18.09.2023 I think.

38 minutes ago, getofflex said:

You've done a fanstastic job of learning non drug coping techniques! Excellent work. These skills will serve you well throughout the rest of your life.

Thanks! I literally feel like I never had and still don't have any serious problems in life other than the one now. It magically cured all my other traumas by showing me what the real struggle looks like. On top of that I will pick up answering on ask.fm again. I used to be ranked no. 1 in my country and now that days mostly go to waste anyways, I may as well binge post there as users ask various questions on non-withdrawal related topics and I can throw many words on a whim.

March 14

19 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Guide I designed for myself:

Accept that your symptoms are likely caused by withdrawal and your nervous system healing, rather than a serious underlying illness. Reassure yourself that any tests have come back clear and no symptom lead to actual problem.

Avoid seeking answers on the internet, as this will often lead down a rabbit hole of worrying about rare diseases. Information found online tends to exaggerate symptoms and scare people. Don't read other people stories here as this will only scare you more since most success stories here report very long recovery times which is the strongest and probably main fuel for panic right now.

Try distraction techniques like guided meditation, relaxation exercises, enjoyable hobbies and activities to take your mind off worrying thoughts.

Challenge irrational thoughts by acknowledging the evidence that tests show nothing is physically wrong, and it's normal to feel unwell during withdrawal even without an explanation. Don't try to make sense of symptoms since there are no. The rules of the brain hell would give you no solutions but more worries.

Speak to others who understand what you're going through on forums like this. Their shared experiences can help normalize your symptoms. Remember nobody is judging you and they know how people react with fear, desperation and anger in face of challenges like this.

Consider seeking help from cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) which can help change thought patterns that fuel anxiety and worry. You already have some experience from your last therapy.

Make self-care a priority with a healthy lifestyle involving diet, walks, sleep and social support. Reducing stress generally helps recovery.

Accept that healing takes time and be patient with yourself. Continually reassuring that "this too shall pass" can provide comfort during bad days. Remember that it can very well end within days, next weeks and even if it's not completely gone, it will be more sustainable as the time passes.

Identifying triggers - Learning what triggers one's emotional spirals so they can be prepared and catch it early when those situations arise. If you're vulnerable in a wave - avoid it. If feeling more stable - challenge them.

Defusing the situation - If an emotional spiral is starting, taking steps to calm oneself like walking away from a confrontation or interaction.

Changing the channel - Redirecting one's thoughts away from ruminating on the trigger or escalating emotions. Shifting mental focus to something else like a task, activity, sports in TV etc.

Going on with life after a spiral - Moving past the event once the emotions have calmed, not dwelling on it further to avoid retriggering the spiral. Later analyzing objectively to learn from it.

Deep breathing and relaxation techniques - Should help regain control of physical reactions when changing the mental channel.

Seeing spirals as a common symptom - Normalizing them and viewing them as something that can be managed rather than a personal failing.

Practice and learning from experience - Noting that controlling spirals takes self-awareness developed through going through the cycle repeatedly and refining one's techniques.

Accepting symptoms as temporary and naming them as such, rather than believing they indicate illness or permanence.

Reminding oneself that symptoms are caused by medication/withdrawal, not by any inherent defect.

Setting boundaries and prioritizing self-care, including removing stressful factors where possible.

Seeking reassurance from supportive others when distressed by symptoms.

Challenging thoughts that symptoms will last forever (eternity thinking) by noting their history of change over time.

Reminding oneself of available coping resources and techniques for managing symptoms.

Slowly relaxing the body through gentle encouragement and deep breathing.

Resisting the urge to catastrophize or drastically respond to symptoms.

Allowing oneself to grieve losses from the experience.

Being patient through the unpredictable recovery process.

Acknowledge - Become aware of and get to know the physical and emotional feelings associated with the anxiety/symptoms.

Accept - Accept that these feelings are currently part of your experience and may persist for some time. There is nothing that can be done to immediately change or get rid of them.

Float - Allow the feelings to "float" or pass by without getting caught up in them or struggling against them. Basically ignore the feelings and distract yourself by getting on with daily activities as much as able.

Meditation and mindfulness techniques like mindful breathing for anxiety and worry.

Yoga poses like legs against the wall pose.

Epsom salt baths.

Spending time in nature through activities like gardening.

Engaging with pets for their unconditional love and acceptance.

Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) techniques like challenging irrational thoughts.

Dialectical behavior therapy (DBT) techniques like radical acceptance.

Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis.

Getting involved in activities like helping others or volunteering to take one's mind off own problems.

Journaling and writing to process emotions.

Practicing forgiveness and letting go of self-criticism and blame.

Connecting with others through support groups or by helping friends in need.

Changing environment, habits, routines to facilitate healing. Even a simple change of pace can help.

Approaching symptoms with acceptance rather than fighting them.

Distraction techniques like keeping busy or changing channels of thought.

Art therapy and music therapy.

Maintaining hope and perspective during difficult times.

Practice relaxation techniques like deep breathing, yoga poses, meditation, muscle relaxation.

Engage in light activity if you feel like to help manage anxiety and restless sensations.

Establish a healthy sleep routine and avoid screens/blue light before bed.

Remember you can't go backwards with your recovery. Since you don't use any meds now, it only gets better even if it doesn't seem like.

Practice cognitive behavioral techniques like thought challenging for anxious thoughts.

Use distraction methods like listening to calming music, journaling emotions.

Spend time in nature for its mood boosting effects through activities like playing with cats in garden.

Connect with others through support groups or helping friends to shift focus from own problems.

Maintain hope, see crises as temporary and recognize small improvements.

Manage morning cortisol surge with relaxation upon waking to reduce anxiety spikes.

Accept symptoms with radical acceptance rather than fighting unpleasant feelings.

Consult doctors knowledgeable about withdrawal for diagnosis and safety monitoring (probably online cause there no such in Nowy Sącz).

Practice tai chi or yoga for deep breathing exercises and measured breathing to relax the body and calm the mind.

Incorporate daily full-body relaxation routines and mental calming activities like meditation or mindfulness.

Use Exposure Response Prevention (ERP) by gradually exposing yourself to anxiety-provoking stimuli to overcome fears and anxieties.

Apply radical acceptance by allowing uncomfortable feelings and sensations to exist without judgment.

When symptoms arise, react by letting go and not fighting or fixating on them.

Challenge negative thought patterns by writing them down and disputing irrational beliefs.

Employ techniques from Claire Weekes' method of anxiety management such as worrying only at set times.

Maintain a positive outlook knowing that symptoms will continue to decrease and improvement lasts a lifetime.

Find perspective by recognizing ups and downs as waves that weaken overall with time.

Connect with others through helping, listening and spending time with supporting people.

Focus on gratitude, relationships and life blessings rather than dwelling on minor differences.

Draw strength and hope from recovery stories or comments of others who struggled but prevailed.

Consider spiritual/religious practices for added meaning, acceptance and hope.

Set boundaries for self-care, maintain routine activities, stay hydrated and go for walks.

This is pretty nice, the only thing I would add is a touch of trauma-informed.

You can also see your "withdrawal feelings and emotions" or "neuroemotions" as feelings and emotions that could be coming back from past traumas/traumatic events that never were properly addressed, sometimes forgotten. In any case, their messages is sometimes aren't updated, regarding to the present circumstances, so that's why they are so distressing and confusing. Also, lots of people suffered trauma before and/or when starting taking psychiatric drugs, they disconnect when taking the drugs from the painful traumatic feelings and emotions and when they quit they come back again, more intense than ever after being chemically suppressed for so long, and they trauma never being properly addressed and reprocessed.

I really wish withdrawal community was trauma informed.

BaccatePlayer: Immediate adverse reaction to sertraline

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