BaccatePlayer: Immediate adverse reaction to sertraline

May 7

1 hour ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Now I'm coming out of a wave that was incredibly unbearable, and actually, your message has massively motivated me.

@BaccatePlayer, I am so glad it did. I truly am.

1 hour ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Can I ask, how did it look for you? I remember Maria kept asking people about it, but it was never explained in too much detail. Did you just keep having shorter waves and suddenly realized the next one never came? How was it when you stopped seeing symptoms anymore? I'm so glad to have you here, much appreciation.

It is not that I can say I do not have any 'symptoms' anymore, but the symptoms that came with the adverse reaction, which started with extreme numbness and altering state of mind, leading to extreme pain and anxiety, and so on, is probably coming to end, or perhaps already have.

I did realize that something was different since a while ago; as you have mentioned earlier, my 'waves' and 'windows' were becoming much less distinguishable and I started to have more, to say, energy and clarity in my life in general. I could do things that I couldn't have done for a while, my thoughts have got deeper, my ideas, motivation, etc, were rather back to 'normal', if not better. And I could sense myself again, even if that doesn't make me feel any better at the moment.

I am still very fatigued, and I also suffer tremendously. But again, I was already suffering a lot before I took the medicine. My mental health was in a deep, deep trouble. And this suffering seems more related to my own traumas, rather than my nervous system being in trouble.

But as @Gonzo has written here in his post, I also do have thoughts about the withdrawals not just being physical problem; but rather seems to me that it might be deeply connected to our mind, or at least in my case. What I've been through in February, March, and April, although everything was still too bizarre back then, something about it had a lot to do with my original problems, as I can somehow see now. But I still am not sure, and I have lots of questions.

I am sorry. Again I am feeling too tired to write about my thoughts anymore... But I just want you to remember this, that healing does occur. It definitely happened for me. I might still be deeply troubled, but at least I am not that zombie I was anymore.

I am spending most of my time trying to understand why I am in such great emotional pain and confusion, but the reason to this is definitely from my own traumas, not the bad effects from the medicine.

So if you weren't too troubled back then, you might feel much better when this gets over.

I wish I can write more about it, and I definitely will if it helps in the future, but I suppose now this is the best I can say...

I relate a lot to you, but this is perhaps not just because we are the same age and we both had a similar situation. Perhaps it's more psychological, more about the person's character that we can feel from the way we express ourselves. Maybe I relate some parts of myself to you. But I am not sure.

Anyway, please do believe there is hope, and whenever you feel deeply troubled, just think about my case.

I really hope that can help you... And I don't know how long it will take for you, and I also understand how terribly painful and hopeless these symptoms are, but just knowing that there is an end might help you get through this.
I hope this helps everyone who reads this, even if it's such a bad writing.

May 7

1 hour ago, Gonzo said:

I think we actually stopped being our authentic selves when we got drugged.

To be fair, I don't like framing it in such a dramatic and ultimate way. Yes, strong emotional responses to events shape us, and in a sense, we're "never the same," but we're alive, and from an outside perspective, there really isn't much to it. Honestly, I won't hold grudges or make too much out of it once I recover. I will simply continue to abstain from psychiatric medications and warn others about the potential risks. I've already lost so many years dwelling on my emotional past, lost childhood, and other philosophical questions. Now, all I want is to laugh with my family without experiencing depersonalization, panic, burning sensations, and pain during summer evenings. I've learned to appreciate simple things, trust my closest people, and realize that I'm no longer the invulnerable child who will be protected by parents for life. There was a girl, Lindsay I think, who had an immediate adverse reaction to sertraline and recovered pretty much fully. This suggests a recovery timeline of about 2-8 weeks for me, judging by most signs. I'm not doing anything wrong; I don't take medications anymore, and my age is in my favor. The moment the final wave ends, I'll be free from any burden. I may take some time off the forum to rewire myself, but I'll be there for my angels who are still struggling, raising awareness about the toxicity of the mental health system and the role of trauma in our experiences.

1 hour ago, Dahlia50 said:

@BaccatePlayer you spread very good vibes here and you write very well.
Understand what you mean when your thread is drug-free. Happy to hear you feel better with hope.
When you're in a crisis or in a terrible wave you don't always have the energy to write. But to be understood by others means a lot. All our experiences are real. And we have closed a lot out due to numb feelings with meds.
We support each other.

Wishing you continued healing…

Appreciate you're here 💛

Thank you, sweetie! My situation doesn't allow me to reinstate or take anything, but at least I know exactly what to do, and things can't get worse for me, nor can I mess up doses. More people need care than there are those in the mood to offer it.

I started crying so much after you guys reached out, and something inside me was shocked, as if saying, "Tom, get out of this dimension! You're there; you haven't lost any memories, emotions, or skills. It's really getting better and better, and you should be just weeks away from full recovery!" I realized how badly this weekend had pulled me into the narrative that it would be like that forever. It's Mother's Day in Poland on the 26th, and I'm going to Bieszczady with my family for my cousin's daughter's first communion. I was already almost recovered at the beginning of April, and my even more recovered state is just behind that cloud caused by last week's stress. I'm back to relaxation podcasts and supporting others, even though my "chemical" mood has yet to catch up, I'm heading towards good times. Long windows, short and bearable waves, and even closer to being myself again. Thank you so much for being there, Dahlia! Wishing you even more healing. I can already function quite well, and when I look at myself walking and shopping or carrying stuff, I can only feel sorry for anyone bedridden or suffering. You're one of my most memorable angels, and I always pray for you to finally be able to enjoy the sun.

May 7

By the way, I was aware and interested in Poland because of the movie Cold War, which I loved and was greatly inspired by. I watched it when I was traveling Australia alone.

By any chance, would you be aware of this movie?

And for @Kaylaq, watching John Candy movies and SCTV skits has helped me a lot during this time, so now I have some affection for Canada, too!

I always liked the snow, anyway. But now it seems I just liked winter because my heart couldn't feel any warmth easily. 🥲

May 7

@KaiLee If you like snow we have winter in Scandinavia ❄️.

Before this WD my favourite was a sunny beach.
Take care! 💛😊

May 7

@Dahlia50, I would love to visit Scandinavia.

I've dreamt a lot about such places because I loved European fantasy tales while growing up.

I am also very fond of sunny beaches now. I'm looking forward to going there someday!
Take care. 😎 ☺️

May 7

@BaccatePlayer We fight so hard in the waves. It's good to be touched, it shows that we actually have feelings.

Wonderful that you function quite well.
This angel is unfortunately bedridden and suffering. Thanks for your hope for me to enjoy the sun one day. It made me remember a special memory when I looked up at nice palm trees and clouds in a sunny sky in a peaceful beautiful place.

Take care and listen to many relaxation podcasts 💛

May 7

In fact, I was walking at the beach a few hours ago and I had an insight that gave my peace of mind. All this horrible suffering, all this unhappiness, it is very much amplified by the fact that I didn't accept my pain, that I saw it as something wrong, bad, immoral, illegal, dangerous. I did this because in this sanistic society of ours being "happy" is mandatory, EVERYONE must be happy all the time, to be fully "functional", productive, efficient, competitive, moral, normal. If you're not then there is something wrong with you that must be fixed with or without drugs... Well, I realized that unhappiness is not wrong, is part of the human condition. Unhappiness make us humans, not freaks as psychiatry says. My pain has meaning, and purpose, and it's not wrong, it's valid, and logical, it's there because of what happened to me in my life, this is what was behind the chemical deception and lobotomy of Sertraline: my unhappines, my pain, my trauma. Furthermore, to reject unhappiness and to not be able to give it meaning is to make it a chronic condition.

May 7

@Gonzo Sounds lovely to walk on the beach.

I hear you and agree. It is wrong to take SSRIs for those reasons. Life is up and down, we develop and learn, also from mistakes. We need emotions and the entire registry for gained experiences.

Sad to become an efficient robot. Doesent work in the long run, in the end no one wants an inhuman person either at work, in relationship or as a friend. Who even wants an inhuman boss. Togetherness is better.
Also it kills creativity and art. Imagine a dancer, actor or musician without emotions. I thought everything would come back when you stopped SSRI, had no idea about long term horrible WD and iatrogenic injuries.

Good with insights.

Take care!

May 7

Yeah... It makes me proud to be part of a community with people that are so emotionally mature, it's getting more and more difficult to find people like that. People are more drugged than ever and emotionally stupid as well. And I know what it's like.

May 8

16 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

What we should remember is that we never stopped being ourselves, evolutionarily programmed to survive according to what happened to us.

You're right. Thank you for the insight.

May 8

16 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

The mental health system skips this altogether and pathologizes our honest reactions to traumatic events. Dealing with relationships and our own self-doubts when soberly investigating challenges is a lot to figure out on our own. Yet, a 10-minute appointment in a psychiatrist's office is enough for them to use their authority to label us "disordered."

This is the reason why I rejected to take medicine for years prior to this event.

I developed a strong fear of not being able to reach out for my real problems forever, if I kept taking the drugs. So I tried to fix things on my own, which eventually made everything once. I had no strength or support to do so. Then ADR happened, and then I thought I was done, thinking about ending myself on my own; but eventually this whole thing turned out to be the greatest opportunity that has ever happened to me in my life.

I was truly shocked when I visited the psychiatrist's office (which I still wanted to refuse, but I couldn't help because I really was going mad), because the doctor talked to me for about 5 minutes and said he will prescribe few meds and that was it.

I had millions or stories to tell and I wasn't even sure where or how to begin with. And then this?

Writing about these things is still to overwhelming to me. I can't continue because my mind just goes blank. So then I constantly have to focus back on something that I can at least write at the moment, which becomes very irrelavant from what I originally was intending to write about.

I had this kind of a problem for a very long time. I was terribly underdeveloped, full of unresolved traumas, no support whatsoever, but I just could never lose hope...

Thank you, @BaccatePlayer.

May 8

I totally understand what you're saying @KaiLee. I think most people resort to psychiatric drugs in desperation, because they lack support to relieve their pain in a different, moral natural way. I didn't have the choice to take Sertraline, I was forced to when I was in crisis, that's why psychiatry was specially insidious in my case, as it is in many, many other cases. I also wanted to tell my story to be seen, understood, supported, and all they did was to pathologize me, to criminalize me and put me in one of their oppressing and alienating boxes labelling me as insane. They don't care about our issues, they just want to "fix" us, to make us go back to "normal", no matter how, they're robots. Psychiatry is a crime against humanity.

May 10

On 5/7/2024 at 7:43 PM, KaiLee said:

It is not that I can say I do not have any 'symptoms' anymore, but the symptoms that came with the adverse reaction, which started with extreme numbness and altering state of mind, leading to extreme pain and anxiety, and so on, is probably coming to end, or perhaps already have.

I did realize that something was different since a while ago; as you have mentioned earlier, my 'waves' and 'windows' were becoming much less distinguishable and I started to have more, to say, energy and clarity in my life in general. I could do things that I couldn't have done for a while, my thoughts have got deeper, my ideas, motivation, etc, were rather back to 'normal', if not better. And I could sense myself again, even if that doesn't make me feel any better at the moment.

I am still very fatigued, and I also suffer tremendously. But again, I was already suffering a lot before I took the medicine. My mental health was in a deep, deep trouble. And this suffering seems more related to my own traumas, rather than my nervous system being in trouble.

But as @Gonzo has written here in his post, I also do have thoughts about the withdrawals not just being physical problem; but rather seems to me that it might be deeply connected to our mind, or at least in my case. What I've been through in February, March, and April, although everything was still too bizarre back then, something about it had a lot to do with my original problems, as I can somehow see now. But I still am not sure, and I have lots of questions.

I am sorry. Again I am feeling too tired to write about my thoughts anymore... But I just want you to remember this, that healing does occur. It definitely happened for me. I might still be deeply troubled, but at least I am not that zombie I was anymore.

I am spending most of my time trying to understand why I am in such great emotional pain and confusion, but the reason to this is definitely from my own traumas, not the bad effects from the medicine.

So if you weren't too troubled back then, you might feel much better when this gets over.

I wish I can write more about it, and I definitely will if it helps in the future, but I suppose now this is the best I can say...

I relate a lot to you, but this is perhaps not just because we are the same age and we both had a similar situation. Perhaps it's more psychological, more about the person's character that we can feel from the way we express ourselves. Maybe I relate some parts of myself to you. But I am not sure.

Anyway, please do believe there is hope, and whenever you feel deeply troubled, just think about my case.

I really hope that can help you... And I don't know how long it will take for you, and I also understand how terribly painful and hopeless these symptoms are, but just knowing that there is an end might help you get through this.
I hope this helps everyone who reads this, even if it's such a bad writing.

In recent days, I've felt stuck in ruminations. Is this becoming my new norm? I wake up and can barely catch up with the real world because my mind is still in a panic mode. It eases in the evening, but the mental sense of entrapment lingers. I overreact to any mention of something upsetting. I'm practicing acceptance and doing everything right, yet it just doesn't go away. Now, I wonder if this is even a result of stress or simply something I would have to go through anyway. This mood is too loud to ignore, too strong to distract myself from, and too uncomfortable to let go of the thought that it might be like this for some time. I'm so busy, and my mindset has improved so much. Is this a wave? If so, this one has lasted almost a month now for no reason; I was in better shape before. Is this the result of signals becoming clearer and my mind interpreting them as panic again? I try to think that maybe it's one of, I don't know, 80 days left? But it's still so unbearable. Today was supposed to be a day when I don't think about my condition at all, yet I go over it again and again as if trying to grasp that day of recovery and pull it towards me.

I just looked back at my conversations from the pre-medication era. I wasn't troubled. Really, I wasn't. I was actually very happy, and sitting alone pondering emotional problems wasn't my thing. Perhaps you relate to me because we're sensitive and very much in charge of taking mental control over what happens to us. You also appreciate the little things, and relate to others through their personal essence. Firm, rich inside, yet kind and curious. That's how I see our common ground. I hope you can see better days with your new "old" self soon. If I could lose the symptoms you mentioned, I'd gladly take that chance. My waves and windows have started blending too, so I hope it's closer to an end.

On 5/7/2024 at 7:49 PM, KaiLee said:

By the way, I was aware and interested in Poland because of the movie Cold War, which I loved and was greatly inspired by. I watched it when I was traveling Australia alone.

By any chance, would you be aware of this movie?

Yes, recently, it has become a common theme to make movies about Poland's wartime past. These films often heavily feature themes of love and music as well. We are very sensitive about how our role in the war is perceived.

On 5/7/2024 at 9:16 PM, Dahlia50 said:

@BaccatePlayer We fight so hard in the waves. It's good to be touched, it shows that we actually have feelings.

Wonderful that you function quite well.
This angel is unfortunately bedridden and suffering. Thanks for your hope for me to enjoy the sun one day. It made me remember a special memory when I looked up at nice palm trees and clouds in a sunny sky in a peaceful beautiful place.

Take care and listen to many relaxation podcasts 💛

What I lost in the process is the realization that whatever the recovering system throws at me makes no sense and is largely unrelated to what I'm going to do with it. I had a terrible akathisia attack by the bakery, and it didn't mean I suddenly have a fear of this place or the cousin I met there. It's not a sign I did something wrong; I don't need to find reasons, I do not need to create patterns about it. It's too late now. It happened because it was meant to happen, and I won't need to go through this again. My best bet now is to just continue self-care routines and not worry about the future. Easier said than done, but if it's the optimal path, it's worth forcing myself onto it. My condition really isn't that tragic; it's simply fragile. I knew I could feel well for almost a week, and the waves still don't have to be that terrible by now. I just hope no more irritants like panic attacks happen. A little stress shouldn't do much damage to me, but when it's one after another, it can take very long days, like 10-15, to shake myself off of living in some doom dimension. I'm probably making my days longer than necessary by repeating all this, but time is my hope. I'm putting so much faith in these closest weeks. Even if I won't recover, it should already be so much better by the beginning of summer. So sorry for your suffering, which I bet looks like my January days.

On 5/8/2024 at 10:32 AM, KaiLee said:

This is the reason why I rejected to take medicine for years prior to this event.

I developed a strong fear of not being able to reach out for my real problems forever, if I kept taking the drugs. So I tried to fix things on my own, which eventually made everything once. I had no strength or support to do so. Then ADR happened, and then I thought I was done, thinking about ending myself on my own; but eventually this whole thing turned out to be the greatest opportunity that has ever happened to me in my life.

I was truly shocked when I visited the psychiatrist's office (which I still wanted to refuse, but I couldn't help because I really was going mad), because the doctor talked to me for about 5 minutes and said he will prescribe few meds and that was it.

I had millions or stories to tell and I wasn't even sure where or how to begin with. And then this?

Writing about these things is still to overwhelming to me. I can't continue because my mind just goes blank. So then I constantly have to focus back on something that I can at least write at the moment, which becomes very irrelavant from what I originally was intending to write about.

I had this kind of a problem for a very long time. I was terribly underdeveloped, full of unresolved traumas, no support whatsoever, but I just could never lose hope...

Thank you, @BaccatePlayer.

I feel terrible that it was really my fault for accidentally taking such a dose of sertraline. I had already been on 100mg for some time by the end of 2020, but I destabilized my system unnecessarily by swallowing it all at once in December. It's a severe adverse reaction, but at least once it's done recovering, it's done for good because I shouldn't have developed a dependency on it nor on the others from less than 5 doses of each, so I hope no withdrawal is incoming. I also hope my continuous stress doesn't prolong the recovery time. I will be cautious now, but I hope it's really no more than 1-1.5 months left for me. I was already seeing my old self, and my thoughts and feelings were almost as they were before; I just got stuck with dreading another panic attack and other bizarre symptoms. When it was getting better, I started to believe I wouldn't have to face such traumatizing suffering again because I thought I had healed enough. Last month proved to me that what I fear the most is still there and it doesn't take much to trigger it. People around me are positive I'm coming to an end, but maybe I keep deluding myself. Maybe I only hope to secure myself by reaching a given date each time and don't really have any strength left to get through the next days. So stuck in ruminations, my mind just doesn't want to let go because it knows that it can still go insanely bad and take many months. I must be really lightly affected by any traumas because my ruminations always revolve around symptoms; there's literally not a single worry that would take priority over it at any point. Maybe I never really cared enough about anything else but my bodily homeostasis?

May 12

Doing terribly. I am aware of the waves and windows pattern, but I have completely lost the windows at this point. It was linearly getting better and better until a month ago when it started being much worse. I could honestly tell, going from month 1 to month 2 to month 3 and to month 4, each time it was getting better overall regardless of single experiences. This month, it is genuinely a step backward. There was not more stress or sleep deprivation than in previous months, and I don't see a reason why this would undergo such a drop. No alcohol, no substances; I guarantee you I wouldn't touch any meds or caffeine right now. I was doing well and had gotten myself out of anxiety, fear of symptoms, and rumination, but it flipped so badly that I feel my system has gone into very high default levels of activation. I feel like a wave ends after a few days and immediately another one starts, just with another set of symptoms. I thought I would be able to say I came very far at the 5-month mark, but honestly, I'm stuck in a much bigger chemical panic than in March. These are mostly neurological, but what matters is that I don't see improvements. Where is the hope? I know it's like protracted withdrawal, but still, these are much worse waves than a month ago. There's nothing I can do. Just go through who knows what for who knows how long. It's still possible for it to last years, and there's nothing I can do to know that. I thought I had no reasons to be depressed, but actually, the very fact of having a promising life full of company and interests is exactly what makes me feel like living with that is not worth it.

May 12

1 hour ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Doing terribly. I am aware of the waves and windows pattern, but I have completely lost the windows at this point. It was linearly getting better and better until a month ago when it started being much worse. I could honestly tell, going from month 1 to month 2 to month 3 and to month 4, each time it was getting better overall regardless of single experiences. This month, it is genuinely a step backward. There was not more stress or sleep deprivation than in previous months, and I don't see a reason why this would undergo such a drop. No alcohol, no substances; I guarantee you I wouldn't touch any meds or caffeine right now. I was doing well and had gotten myself out of anxiety, fear of symptoms, and rumination, but it flipped so badly that I feel my system has gone into very high default levels of activation. I feel like a wave ends after a few days and immediately another one starts, just with another set of symptoms. I thought I would be able to say I came very far at the 5-month mark, but honestly, I'm stuck in a much bigger chemical panic than in March. These are mostly neurological, but what matters is that I don't see improvements. Where is the hope? I know it's like protracted withdrawal, but still, these are much worse waves than a month ago. There's nothing I can do. Just go through who knows what for who knows how long. It's still possible for it to last years, and there's nothing I can do to know that. I thought I had no reasons to be depressed, but actually, the very fact of having a promising life full of company and interests is exactly what makes me feel like living with that is not worth it.

@BaccatePlayer Sorry you are not doing too good, why don't you tag a moderator for advice, I'm sure they wouldn't mind trying to help you, maybe someone who has helped you before?

May 12

2 minutes ago, Sonia009 said:

@BaccatePlayer Sorry you are not doing too good, why don't you tag a moderator for advice, I'm sure they wouldn't mind trying to help you, maybe someone who has helped you before?

Thanks, Sonia! The introduction here was made by getofflex, but she stopped following me, and I've heard she's on a break. I think I only talked to @Carmie here before. Basically, I've been drug-free since December 21, 2023, and from March to April, windows were getting progressively longer, from 2 to 3 days, from 3 to 4 days, from 4 to 5 days, and waves were getting weaker, usually lasting around 4 days. However, after a panic attack on April 14, 2024, it's really just been one wave after another, and the Friday to Monday wave was incredibly violent, and this weekend it's even worse. I'm experiencing all kinds of neurological issues, with my eyes and ears affected, so severe that I barely hold on for another minute. I'm completely unresponsive to any coping strategies, experiencing one of the most intense brain burnings I've had, phosphenes, and tensed stomach. This really feels like there was "too much" of something, and it keeps traveling through my body, causing bloating in both my stomach and head, but it's completely chemical. My diet, sleep, and stress management are on point, but it gets worse while sitting down or lying down. I don't feel panic, but I know it's there, which prompts instant and serious overreacting to breathing and swallowing stutters. I can't distract myself from it.

May 12

@BaccatePlayer Try someone else, Erimus, Onmyway, KenA, Lotus Rising, FireflyFyte, you can do a search on Staff. I'm sure any one of them would like to help. 🙂

May 12

So sorry you are suffering so intensely … one breath at a time!! 💪💪🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻😊😊🥰🥰🥰

May 12

9 minutes ago, Sonia009 said:

@BaccatePlayer Try someone else, Erimus, Onmyway, KenA, Lotus Rising, FireflyFyte, you can do a search on Staff. I'm sure any one of them would like to help. 🙂

Alright, so I remember @KenA posting on the immediate adverse reaction thread recently. I always feel "insecure" about my case because I'm drug-free, so there's really not much to blame when sleep, diet, and stress management are on point. Maybe I really need some insight. I encourage others to seek help, so now I admit I need it myself.

3 minutes ago, Kaylaq said:

So sorry you are suffering so intensely … one breath at a time!! 💪💪🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻😊😊🥰🥰🥰

Thank you, Kayla, that's all I can do now.

May 12

Hello @BaccatePlayer

Nice to meet you. I've been following your thread a bit and thought I'd stop by to introduce myself.

It sounds like you're going through a nasty wave at the moment. I'm sorry you're suffering.

When we're in a wave it can feel unbearable, and WD-brain will have us believe that the wave is our new reality and will last forever. This is not true.

It's just a WD-brain illusion, WD-monkey-mind playing tricks on us. This too shall pass.

Something that has helped me in very difficult moments is Alan Watts' story of the Chinese farmer, do you know it?

I like this short video and find it very soothing. I have sometimes watched/listened to it on a loop, finding comfort in its wise message.

No pressure to like it, it's so individual what/how we respond to such materials.

If you do enjoy Alan Watts, there's an SA topic linking to more of his quotes and videos:

May 12

@BaccatePlayer, sorry that I couldn't reply earlier.

I'm going through a lot lately, but I've read what you've wrote to me, several times in fact.

It always makes me feel good talking to you.

Plus, I am much more healed now.

It might really be the end of the withdrawal symptoms for me, or at least I'm very near there. Or perhaps, it was already done few weeks or a month or two ago.

Now I'm facing my own personal problems, tons of them, as I've mentioned few times already...

Anyways, always wish you the best.

May 12

16 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Alright, so I remember @KenA posting on the immediate adverse reaction thread recently. I always feel "insecure" about my case because I'm drug-free, so there's really not much to blame when sleep, diet, and stress management are on point. Maybe I really need some insight. I encourage others to seek help, so now I admit I need it myself.

@BaccatePlayer I think we all need help at some point, you have helped so many people here, now I hope one of the moderators can help you. No shame in that.😊

16 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Thank you, Kayla, that's all I can do now.

May 12

57 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

I always feel "insecure" about my case because I'm drug-free, so there's really not much to blame when sleep, diet, and stress management are on point. Maybe I really need some insight. I encourage others to seek help, so now I admit I need it myself.

I think I know exactly what you mean. I, too, was drug-free by the time I first joined SA and often felt that there wasn't much point asking moderators for help or input as it didn't seem there was anything to be done about WD other than waiting it out. Additionally, I felt self-conscious about possibly taking time away from members who were actively tapering or dealing with acute situations.

However, you are wise and correct in taking your own excellent advice encouraging others to seek help. It is a valuable practice to ask for support, and you are doing so brilliantly by logging on and posting here about what you're going through. You are clearly well-liked and respected by fellow community members, and you have already in the course of your short time here become a mentor and made significant contributions generously assisting others upon their journeys. Well done, you, on all fronts!

I'm not a moderator, but I have some experience navigating WD as well as witnessing the trajectories of many others here. I offer the following in case it might prove useful, and if you don't find it helpful, feel free to ignore.

3 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

I am aware of the waves and windows pattern, but I have completely lost the windows at this point. It was linearly getting better and better until a month ago when it started being much worse. I could honestly tell, going from month 1 to month 2 to month 3 and to month 4, each time it was getting better overall regardless of single experiences. This month, it is genuinely a step backward.

You are sort of answering your own question here: healing is not linear. The waves and windows pattern is meant to convey exactly that, the non-linear nature of healing. The occurrence of both waves and windows -- their respective prevalence, frequency, intensity, other characteristics and qualities, etc. -- is by definition unpredictable and ever changing, and entirely different from person to person, with great variability even within the experience of each individual.

WD is so difficult that our minds are constantly grasping for ways to organize the chaos and control the narrative, incl. and perhaps especially projections about what's next. As you know, the mind is a problem-solving fixer that seeks certainty and reassurance, and makes up stories to do so, for example about where we are in the healing process. In actuality, we cannot know where we are in the process at any given time. I can relate to the pattern-recognition tendency, that is a function of all healthy (!) human brains (in case you needed proof that you do in fact have a healthy human brain, there you have it); at the same time, it's not necessarily accurate, correct, or helpful.

In this case, your experience that things were/are "getting better overall regardless of single experiences" is spot on -- yes, that's true. Hang on to that insight, it's a keeper! This current wave you're in does not negate that at all. Things ARE getting better overall, and healing is happening all the time, whether or not you consciously feel/perceive it -- incl. when you're in a wave.

AND your mind's idea of categorizing and predicting future outcomes based on perceived linear progression -- i.e. some sort of underlying expectation that from now on, healing will be following X pattern that mind has determined as certain and is clinging to for comfort -- that is an illusion. Being in a wave is not the same as having "completely lost the windows"; that's like despairing at midnight that one has completely lost the day, and concluding that it's all darkness from here on out with the daylight never to return again. False reasoning, faulty framing, and very very typical of the neuro-emotion-influenced WD-brain state that we experience when in a wave.

So while I completely understand and can relate to the WD-brain thought of this wave being "genuinely a step backward," that is simple false. Even though we may subjectively experience waves as setbacks, they are not -- quite the opposite, in fact. A wave is a sign that healing is taking place, and with every wave we are being moved forward into further, deeper reaches of healing. I know that when the suffering is so intense, this can be almost impossible to remember or believe or perceive; it is nevertheless unequivocally true.

In summary, your mind made some (wrong) assumptions about how things would be from now on, and now it's jumping to some new (equally wrong) conclusions. That's okay, no big deal -- this is what all minds do (incl. non-WD minds!), and that is amplified in WD, as well as our reactions being magnified to self-generated misinformation. Here the key is to get intimate with the mind's tricks and shenanigans, get to know WD-brain and practice allowing it to do its thing in the background without getting involved. We practice acceptance and practice remaining neutral, non-reactive to WD-brain noise pollution.

I know that may be easier said than done when in the throes of a wave. We've all been there and most of us will likely be there again sooner than we'd like, and we will all make it through. It's okay to do whatever you can to get by; do not underestimate the potent utility of distraction, any sort of non-destructive, non-invasive, non-drug peaceful distraction (I cannot tell you how many hundreds, possibly thousands, of movies, tv shows, audiobooks, podcasts, etc. I've consumed over the years). As we move through WD we explore what distractions are available to us, be they media/entertainment, socializing, warm/cold showers, walking, reaching out to ask for help here on SA, posting on the forum, any other specific activities (I recall several members whose homes were never cleaner than during WD; unfortunately I cannot claim to benefit from cleaning as a way to distract, it does seem remarkably practical!). Even counting seconds or counting breaths or putting on a timer for 1 minute or 5 minutes and then every time it rings, you change bodily position -- anything, anything will do! Just do what you can to break up the waking hours and get through one moment at a time. And eventually, this too shall pass.

As you yourself have said, things are "getting better overall regardless of single experiences" -- YES, it gets better!

We don't know how long healing is going to take (best to let go of any attachments to projected time frames; any such expectations are pure fiction, mere stories our mind has made up, ostensibly to comfort us, and ultimately such stories are probably not helpful and may be doing us a disservice; cf Alan Watts and the story of the Chinese farmer); we don't know what healing is going to look like (best to let go of any attachments to projected patterns and predictions); AND healing is happening. Lean into the not knowing, embrace the "I don't know," and TRUST:

Healing is happening all the time, whether or not we consciously feel/perceive it.

In solidarity and support,

A.

May 12

30 minutes ago, Ariel said:

Hello @BaccatePlayer

Nice to meet you. I've been following your thread a bit and thought I'd stop by to introduce myself.

It sounds like you're going through a nasty wave at the moment. I'm sorry you're suffering.

When we're in a wave it can feel unbearable, and WD-brain will have us believe that the wave is our new reality and will last forever. This is not true.

It's just a WD-brain illusion, WD-monkey-mind playing tricks on us. This too shall pass.

Something that has helped me in very difficult moments is Alan Watts' story of the Chinese farmer, do you know it?

I like this short video and find it very soothing. I have sometimes watched/listened to it on a loop, finding comfort in its wise message.

No pressure to like it, it's so individual what/how we respond to such materials.

If you do enjoy Alan Watts, there's an SA topic linking to more of his quotes and videos:

Hello Ariel! I'm glad you stepped up. I know that waves always end, but I'm just shocked at how drastically my baseline has dropped and continues to get worse. I watched that, and I completely understand the message. It relates to something I watched recently about "you can turn the corner any day." I haven't experienced a month-long wave yet; the absence of windows is also very concerning, but I don't feel my hope is being jeopardized now. I know it always passes, but enduring the current moment is just a serious challenge of sizes I thought I had overcome 2 months ago. I'm very grateful to have you here.

26 minutes ago, KaiLee said:

@BaccatePlayer, sorry that I couldn't reply earlier.

I'm going through a lot lately, but I've read what you've wrote to me, several times in fact.

It always makes me feel good talking to you.

Plus, I am much more healed now.

It might really be the end of the withdrawal symptoms for me, or at least I'm very near there. Or perhaps, it was already done few weeks or a month or two ago.

Now I'm facing my own personal problems, tons of them, as I've mentioned few times already...

Anyways, always wish you the best.

That's alright, I completely understand. Even if you still have some issues, at least you have only one issue left. I feel completely ready to recover mentally, but, symptom-wise, it's such a struggle for me. I've stopped feeling traumas, facing just the purely chemical, macabre dance of neurotransmitters. Thank you so much; I feel you're a kindred soul.

14 minutes ago, Sonia009 said:

@BaccatePlayer I think we all need help at some point, you have helped so many people here, now I hope one of the moderators can help you. No shame in that.😊

Asking for help has always been a struggle for me. I feel too bossy and talk too much when trying to support others as well. My parents pushed me beyond my limits through confirmation meetings at church, school, internships, work, and driving license exams. There was always something bigger than me that made doing the right thing more important than taking care of myself.

May 12

@BaccatePlayer

You seem pretty well-versed site-wide, perhaps you are already familiar with this excellent post?

I have often revisited it when in a wave.

May 12

4 minutes ago, BaccatePlayer said:

I know that waves always end, but I'm just shocked at how drastically my baseline has dropped and continues to get worse.

If you're having an experience of your "baseline" dropping and worsening, I'd suggest that this is not actually your "baseline", but another aspect of a wave. Sometimes waves are complex and we don't even know we're in one until we come out the other side. In a wave WD-brain will try to convince us that it's not a wave, it's our new normal; this is insidious, but we can learn to outsmart it! The way we use language, the way we formulate our thoughts, the way our thoughts shape our perception -- it's powerful stuff. We can harness this force to our advantage to help us through tough times. Beware of how WD-brain weaponizes concepts of waves, windows, baseline, etc. and turns them into negative messaging, harbingers of doom. That is a telltale sign that WD-monkey-mind is acting up -- don't fall for its antics!

The thought, "my baseline has dropped and continues to get worse," will inevitably cause distress.

Let's play a game: what are some thoughts (formulations, expressions) that can have a calming, soothing, net positive effect?

Here are a few examples from my own practice:

There are a finite number of waves in my WD experience. I do not know the total number of waves I will go through. Every wave brings me one step closer to the finish line. Every wave = one more wave down, only X more to go; and X keeps getting smaller and smaller with every wave.

Every wave is a mysterious force, evidence of profound healing taking place in the body. The body is amazing in its capacity to heal. Healing is what my body has evolved to do. Healing is my body's area of expertise. Nature is unfathomably powerful, honed over billions of years of research and development. I know nothing, I understand nothing, and it is not my job to know or understand. It's my job to TRUST. I trust in the wave, I trust in my body, I trust in nature, I trust in healing. You cannot spell wave without AWE.

These are some thoughts that have helped me greatly through times of anguish and strife. I offer them to you in case they might prove useful or provide inspiration.

If you feel like it, I encourage you to play around with articulating your own friendly support thoughts. Figuring out phrases that are personally meaningful and helpful to you is a great way to keep your mind occupied and distract (not unlike doing a puzzle) while simultaneously creating tools for your toolbox.

Sending healing vibes <3

May 12

I agree with timelines basically being just a desire. We all want to go back to "normal" as soon as possible but we have to learn how to do that, how to manage our suffering, to understand it, to accept it, to tolerate it, to master it, being withdrawal the sole source of that suffering or just one more layer of it. The issues with these drugs is not just addiction and withdrawal but that we lose coping skills and distress tolerance, so our pain becomes unbearable as well. We need to learn how to stabilize and time to do it. Having support and validation is part of that process.

May 12

@BaccatePlayer I hear you. Sending love and support 🌱💚🌿🍀🌱🌿💚

May 12

5 hours ago, Ariel said:

I think I know exactly what you mean. I, too, was drug-free by the time I first joined SA and often felt that there wasn't much point asking moderators for help or input as it didn't seem there was anything to be done about WD other than waiting it out. Additionally, I felt self-conscious about possibly taking time away from members who were actively tapering or dealing with acute situations.

However, you are wise and correct in taking your own excellent advice encouraging others to seek help. It is a valuable practice to ask for support, and you are doing so brilliantly by logging on and posting here about what you're going through. You are clearly well-liked and respected by fellow community members, and you have already in the course of your short time here become a mentor and made significant contributions generously assisting others upon their journeys. Well done, you, on all fronts!

I'm not a moderator, but I have some experience navigating WD as well as witnessing the trajectories of many others here. I offer the following in case it might prove useful, and if you don't find it helpful, feel free to ignore.

You are sort of answering your own question here: healing is not linear. The waves and windows pattern is meant to convey exactly that, the non-linear nature of healing. The occurrence of both waves and windows -- their respective prevalence, frequency, intensity, other characteristics and qualities, etc. -- is by definition unpredictable and ever changing, and entirely different from person to person, with great variability even within the experience of each individual.

WD is so difficult that our minds are constantly grasping for ways to organize the chaos and control the narrative, incl. and perhaps especially projections about what's next. As you know, the mind is a problem-solving fixer that seeks certainty and reassurance, and makes up stories to do so, for example about where we are in the healing process. In actuality, we cannot know where we are in the process at any given time. I can relate to the pattern-recognition tendency, that is a function of all healthy (!) human brains (in case you needed proof that you do in fact have a healthy human brain, there you have it); at the same time, it's not necessarily accurate, correct, or helpful.

In this case, your experience that things were/are "getting better overall regardless of single experiences" is spot on -- yes, that's true. Hang on to that insight, it's a keeper! This current wave you're in does not negate that at all. Things ARE getting better overall, and healing is happening all the time, whether or not you consciously feel/perceive it -- incl. when you're in a wave.

AND your mind's idea of categorizing and predicting future outcomes based on perceived linear progression -- i.e. some sort of underlying expectation that from now on, healing will be following X pattern that mind has determined as certain and is clinging to for comfort -- that is an illusion. Being in a wave is not the same as having "completely lost the windows"; that's like despairing at midnight that one has completely lost the day, and concluding that it's all darkness from here on out with the daylight never to return again. False reasoning, faulty framing, and very very typical of the neuro-emotion-influenced WD-brain state that we experience when in a wave.

So while I completely understand and can relate to the WD-brain thought of this wave being "genuinely a step backward," that is simple false. Even though we may subjectively experience waves as setbacks, they are not -- quite the opposite, in fact. A wave is a sign that healing is taking place, and with every wave we are being moved forward into further, deeper reaches of healing. I know that when the suffering is so intense, this can be almost impossible to remember or believe or perceive; it is nevertheless unequivocally true.

In summary, your mind made some (wrong) assumptions about how things would be from now on, and now it's jumping to some new (equally wrong) conclusions. That's okay, no big deal -- this is what all minds do (incl. non-WD minds!), and that is amplified in WD, as well as our reactions being magnified to self-generated misinformation. Here the key is to get intimate with the mind's tricks and shenanigans, get to know WD-brain and practice allowing it to do its thing in the background without getting involved. We practice acceptance and practice remaining neutral, non-reactive to WD-brain noise pollution.

I know that may be easier said than done when in the throes of a wave. We've all been there and most of us will likely be there again sooner than we'd like, and we will all make it through. It's okay to do whatever you can to get by; do not underestimate the potent utility of distraction, any sort of non-destructive, non-invasive, non-drug peaceful distraction (I cannot tell you how many hundreds, possibly thousands, of movies, tv shows, audiobooks, podcasts, etc. I've consumed over the years). As we move through WD we explore what distractions are available to us, be they media/entertainment, socializing, warm/cold showers, walking, reaching out to ask for help here on SA, posting on the forum, any other specific activities (I recall several members whose homes were never cleaner than during WD; unfortunately I cannot claim to benefit from cleaning as a way to distract, it does seem remarkably practical!). Even counting seconds or counting breaths or putting on a timer for 1 minute or 5 minutes and then every time it rings, you change bodily position -- anything, anything will do! Just do what you can to break up the waking hours and get through one moment at a time. And eventually, this too shall pass.

As you yourself have said, things are "getting better overall regardless of single experiences" -- YES, it gets better!

We don't know how long healing is going to take (best to let go of any attachments to projected time frames; any such expectations are pure fiction, mere stories our mind has made up, ostensibly to comfort us, and ultimately such stories are probably not helpful and may be doing us a disservice; cf Alan Watts and the story of the Chinese farmer); we don't know what healing is going to look like (best to let go of any attachments to projected patterns and predictions); AND healing is happening. Lean into the not knowing, embrace the "I don't know," and TRUST:

Healing is happening all the time, whether or not we consciously feel/perceive it.

In solidarity and support,

A.

7 hours ago, BaccatePlayer said:

Thanks, Sonia! The introduction here was made by getofflex, but she stopped following me, and I've heard she's on a break. I think I only talked to @Carmie here before. Basically, I've been drug-free since December 21, 2023, and from March to April, windows were getting progressively longer, from 2 to 3 days, from 3 to 4 days, from 4 to 5 days, and waves were getting weaker, usually lasting around 4 days. However, after a panic attack on April 14, 2024, it's really just been one wave after another, and the Friday to Monday wave was incredibly violent, and this weekend it's even worse. I'm experiencing all kinds of neurological issues, with my eyes and ears affected, so severe that I barely hold on for another minute. I'm completely unresponsive to any coping strategies, experiencing one of the most intense brain burnings I've had, phosphenes, and tensed stomach. This really feels like there was "too much" of something, and it keeps traveling through my body, causing bloating in both my stomach and head, but it's completely chemical. My diet, sleep, and stress management are on point, but it gets worse while sitting down or lying down. I don't feel panic, but I know it's there, which prompts instant and serious overreacting to breathing and swallowing stutters. I can't distract myself from it.

I’m really sorry to hear you’re struggling so much BaccatePlayer,

Ariel’s post above is spot on. None of us know how we will be affected by these meds, how long the waves will last, when they will hit hard etc. There are quite a number of people who aren’t too bad coming off the meds, then months later they end up in severe withdrawals. Have you had a look at the thread in Symptoms and Self-Care looking at delayed onset? It’s entitled: Do Withdrawal Symptoms Always Show Up Right Away-Delayed Onset.

It’s really sad how we are all prisoners to these meds. I’m only tapering by a really small amount, about 1.5% or so, and I’ve just been hit with a wave. I’m coming out of it now. It’s something we can’t escape, the windows and waves pattern is something we all go through sadly. Waves can last a really long time too. I’ve had waves that have lasted many months.

I’ve also had lots of symptoms that come and go, at one stage I had a burning mouth for ages. This was years ago, and I didn’t realise at the time it was from withdrawals. It eventually went away. I also had visual problems, my eye sight went really weird at one stage, it was very concerning. Again, it was no doubt due to withdrawals. It also went away. Take consolation in the fact that the symptoms are transient. I know this doesn’t make them any easier though.

It’s nice to see that you have others on this site that you are interacting with and finding mutual encouragement. You have been such an encouragement to others too, despite what you’re going through. It’s hard for people who haven’t gone through withdrawals to understand what we are going through. It’s such a scary process.

Some days all we can do is take an hour at a time, or even a minute at a time. I’m rowing in the same boat as you with my health issues.

Sending hugs🤗

May 13

@Ariel Yes, that's exactly how I felt. I didn't want to be selfish, draining the often burdened moderators, who are dealing with symptoms themselves, and taking time away from someone who might need it more. Your insights are very valuable, though mostly they serve as reminders for me. I'm already aware of most of this, and even though voicing it doesn't make my mind feel better, I haven't forgotten my situation, its causes, and how to respond to it. Sadly, this is often not enough, and when it gets intense, I just have to rely on the understanding that in the moment, nothing will help, and it really just needs to happen. Obviously, I'm aware this is unpredictable; I could get a panic attack or any symptom at a random moment, and I know it's unlikely to be prepared for that. However, I've also read that immediate adverse reactions are more linear in healing, and individuals don't cycle through new symptoms as much as withdrawal sufferers do. I know healing is always happening, and no actual step backwards can occur as long as I stay drug-free. It's just a significant change over a large timeframe to have waves and windows of progression, only to stop experiencing windows for an entire month. There are people who have no windows at all, yet they still recover. I would just ignore that, if not for the fact that I really feel as if I had taken a med a month ago and experienced some kind of kindling from that... except I didn't. Thus, I was wondering if some additional protracted withdrawal is in play, but even without knowing, I'd just assume that healing is taking place and my remaining days of recovery are getting fewer, since no drugs are being introduced.

Yes, I've seen this post, and although there are still symptoms I can't categorize under any existing labels, I am aware that it's all part of the healing process. It has never harmed me and always changed after some time. The thing is, having some timelines actually helps maintain my sanity. The process doesn't last a few weeks, but it also doesn't take 20 years. I mean, it could, but assuming that being an outlier isn't a realistic expectation here. I think I don't really doubt the basics, even during the waves. I'm simply a Highly Sensitive Person, and my complaints are just structurally verbalized "Ouchs". I've never really been through much pain. Never been in the hospital, nothing broken at any point, never severely ill, and my small world is very conservative, repetitive, and tightly controlled (literally the autistic comfort robot), so estrangement, fear, and pain hit me very hard, and there's nothing I could do about it.

What I mean is that if I compare the time period from 11.03 to 12.04 to the period from 13.04 to today, the first one had a progressive baseline with both windows and waves occurring during that period. The latter, however, shows no windows, a worsening of symptoms, and higher default levels of activation. It's tempting to say I'm trying to draw conclusions based on how I feel now, but I have detailed logs, and I actually have more symptoms that last longer (I feel my brain burning up to late evening, something that would have already been less intense a month ago, indicating that I require lower, even sedative-spectrum levels of cortisol to feel it lessening) and the level of severity is more comparable to 2/3 months ago rather than being the same as a month ago or lower.

There are many positive affirmations I keep in mind: I don't have many symptoms that would be concerning, such as hallucinations, jaw clenching, severe insomnia, sexual dysfunctions, or breathing issues. I cannot get worse because I'm medication-free; the acute phase doesn't last forever. It's still not at the December-January level of severity right now; I can walk and travel.

2 hours ago, Gonzo said:

I agree with timelines basically being just a desire. We all want to go back to "normal" as soon as possible but we have to learn how to do that, how to manage our suffering, to understand it, to accept it, to tolerate it, to master it, being withdrawal the sole source of that suffering or just one more layer of it. The issues with these drugs is not just addiction and withdrawal but that we lose coping skills and distress tolerance, so our pain becomes unbearable as well. We need to learn how to stabilize and time to do it. Having support and validation is part of that process

One thing that makes me feel "out of touch" with the traumatic part is that... I was under the therapeutic influence of meds for a very short time. Most of the drugs caused me very strong side effects, and I had to discard them immediately. Some people may undergo a series of experiences with substances, but from the current perspective, it was clear that my body was rejecting the meds with all kinds of headaches, nausea, and constipation. Mentally, I don't really know what it's like to be "treated" by drugs because I couldn't become addicted to them. Dependency happens after taking them for some time, which, in most cases, couldn't be true for me. I hate how I accidentally damaged my nervous system by dosing myself with sertraline. I can't even blame the doctor for that; it shouldn't have been taken, that's all. Now, I feel out of control, which has always been my insecurity. I've always dreamed of being able to force people to do something against their will, proving that I can exert pressure on them, essentially asserting power and dominance that would be feared under any circumstance. That's probably why I'm such a supporter of communism and autocracy, proving to my dad that I can turn the script around and be as unconditionally influential as he wanted me to be, taken for granted. I should probably simplify my thoughts better. A recovering brain is not optimal for heavy thinking. I really hope this won't take years. I'd completely wear myself out from abstaining and stalling my life, which is still not enough to stop the neurological symptoms. I already feel that going through half of what I went through wasn't worth the recovery, let alone if it kept going for so long. Interestingly enough, I always used to pretend to feel bad, creating suffering out of nothing and wasting time by forcing sadness to draw attention to myself. Now, I'm genuinely experiencing pain that I can't stop and have to pretend to be capable of living. I was a very spoiled child in many ways, yet I kept throwing tantrums because I wanted even more attention focused on me. Now, it's no joke, and no one will take this experience from me just because I'm myself. I guess I'm used to feeling bad all the time, just not in the way I do now. I'm starting to understand those who feel defeated after recovery. My main theme was "loving me for who I am, not for what I do for you," and this is potentially why I never benefited from therapy. I was learning how therapeutic tools work and tried to prove that they could still be overcome by anxiety. It would be a huge upset to make myself better through effort rather than entitlement because if others found out I could, that would mean my failures can't be justified for good, and I am where I am not out of whim but out of fear of facing the fact that my ego is less important than my actions.

May 13

@BaccatePlayer I think your adverse reaction to Sertraline uncovered a lot of painful things. This can be an extremely good oportunity to fully recover and to get into a healthier mindset as well as living healthier. I suppose this is the case with lots of people that had bad experiences with the MH system and their drugs. I personally found lots of support in r/Antipsychiatry, a subreddit, and awesome people there from all over the world that understood my struggles. I want also to tell you that is not a moral defect or character flaw to be in pain, suffering and unhappy, expect in a sanistic society like ours where everyone must be "happy" and "functional" all the time, robotic, inhuman. Our suffering and distress is pathologized, criminalized and stigmatized, ignored, and suppressed as well, chemically and psychologically. Unhappiness is the road to happiness my friend, not the opposite.

May 13

16 hours ago, Dahlia50 said:

@BaccatePlayer I hear you. Sending love and support 🌱💚🌿🍀🌱🌿💚

Thank you, angel! I'm telling myself, "Maybe this is the last wave of such severity." I can't give up when I could literally be so close to turning the corner. Even if not, I'm at least this much closer.

15 hours ago, Carmie said:

I'm really sorry to hear you’re struggling so much BaccatePlayer,

Ariel’s post above is spot on. None of us know how we will be affected by these meds, how long the waves will last, when they will hit hard etc. There are quite a number of people who aren’t too bad coming off the meds, then months later they end up in severe withdrawals. Have you had a look at the thread in Symptoms and Self-Care looking at delayed onset? It’s entitled: Do Withdrawal Symptoms Always Show Up Right Away-Delayed Onset.

It’s really sad how we are all prisoners to these meds. I’m only tapering by a really small amount, about 1.5% or so, and I’ve just been hit with a wave. I’m coming out of it now. It’s something we can’t escape, the windows and waves pattern is something we all go through sadly. Waves can last a really long time too. I’ve had waves that have lasted many months.

I’ve also had lots of symptoms that come and go, at one stage I had a burning mouth for ages. This was years ago, and I didn’t realise at the time it was from withdrawals. It eventually went away. I also had visual problems, my eye sight went really weird at one stage, it was very concerning. Again, it was no doubt due to withdrawals. It also went away. Take consolation in the fact that the symptoms are transient. I know this doesn’t make them any easier though.

It’s nice to see that you have others on this site that you are interacting with and finding mutual encouragement. You have been such an encouragement to others too, despite what you’re going through. It’s hard for people who haven’t gone through withdrawals to understand what we are going through. It’s such a scary process.

Some days all we can do is take an hour at a time, or even a minute at a time. I’m rowing in the same boat as you with my health issues.

Sending hugs🤗

Thank you, Carmie, for taking the time to respond! I experienced an immediate onset of an adverse reaction with severe activation and barely survived December and January. I won't lie, some symptoms have not reappeared, and I know they have evolved linearly for the better. However, after experiencing a huge panic attack and three wet dreams over two weeks, some neurotransmitter-based storm continues to plague me (I'm now two weeks free from such upsets), and despite my best efforts, I can't find a window of relief. The only medication that could potentially cause withdrawal symptoms for me is bupropion, though that's doubtful. However, even after the onset of this hell, I tried reinstatement on my doctor's advice, and it didn't work, if not made things worse. I'm now 5 months stable on just 25mg of levothyroxine daily and wasn't prepared for it to suddenly reach this level of intensity. Maybe that's actually it; maybe I need some more days for my neurotransmitters to stabilize because mentally, I don't even feel altered anymore, just experiencing serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine symptoms like akathisia and neurological glitching. I could "afford" a nocturnal emission once every 3-5 weeks, but the panic attack left me oddly agitated, and it started happening too often, each time leading to symptoms being more ignited (the December serotonin heat throughout the body returned), so I was afraid of falling asleep again until I discovered that sleeping under a heavy blanket helped me. I know food alters neurotransmitters, and some are sensitive to, for example, sugar, so even though it's not my fault, I may just be a victim of these events messing with my stability. I'll look through the thread, though I'm not sure if withdrawal can "stack up" to already existing dysregulation caused by an adverse reaction. People here are fantastic support; they act like true friends who provide support despite their own misery. Wishing you all the best, too! I will just roll through the next days and see where it'll lead me.

May 13

@BaccatePlayer Just want to say I also have neurological issues, my eyes affected tired and aching. I think others can see it in my eyes too. Is it like that for you too?
Brain burning, tensed stomach, bloating in stomach and head, absolutely chemical as you said. It’s unpleasant to say the least. Wonder If the body can heal this.

I had an adverse reaction after a dose increase over a year ago and the same feeling now when I tried to reinstate. Don't know if I have WD and problems from adverse reaction or is it the same thing. Take care! 💛🙏

May 13

@BaccatePlayer Hang in there. I know how awful those really strong waves can be. Just remember, the stronger the wave, the more healing that is getting done. I used to tell myself that all the time when the waves were overwhelming. I would just tell myself I was having a good strong day of healing!! You've got this!

Ken

May 13

That's so true @KenA, my most valuable insights (that led me to be more mentally and emotionally stable) came after the most sh*tty moments!

May 13

2 hours ago, Gonzo said:

@BaccatePlayer I think your adverse reaction to Sertraline uncovered a lot of painful things. This can be an extremely good oportunity to fully recover and to get into a healthier mindset as well as living healthier. I suppose this is the case with lots of people that had bad experiences with the MH system and their drugs. I personally found lots of support in r/Antipsychiatry, a subreddit, and awesome people there from all over the world that understood my struggles. I want also to tell you that is not a moral defect or character flaw to be in pain, suffering and unhappy, expect in a sanistic society like ours where everyone must be "happy" and "functional" all the time, robotic, inhuman. Our suffering and distress is pathologized, criminalized and stigmatized, ignored, and suppressed as well, chemically and psychologically. Unhappiness is the road to happiness my friend, not the opposite.

I was just skimming through DMs with my friend from November and earlier, and I've been "uncovering traumas" or "intellectualizing reasons" for pretty much the whole time. I feel I could write about it over and over again, and I'd keep throwing out sensible insights. It seems like something I was never out of touch with, maybe only when the physical symptoms were so severe that they possessed my whole attention. This right now is how I've been mentally the whole time: overt self-awareness and extreme precision in evaluating how my inner world is being shaped by external circumstances. I don't think I even ever had many topics to talk about. My feelings are my truest home. I could never understand how people can say they "repress" or "numb" their feelings. To me, they're sacred. It's not only something I can't ignore. It's literally me. I don't view life through my actions; I view it through my inner experiences. The core of my issues is very simple: hunger. An ego that's deprived of satisfaction goes into acedia. You don't move, so you don't lose energy. That's a subconscious way of protecting my life. I want everything to be known, understood, controlled, and unchanged. If there was no food, I would feel too weak to fight for it. Living so long with limerence, I kept seeing all kinds of suffering where others saw joy. That's acedia again. Create a perfect picture of someone to love and digest it. Over and over again. I was so afraid of hunger that I created food that can be consumed an infinite number of times. I also idealized God and my father. Psychiatry called that obsessive-compulsive features, but I just wanted to hold onto a solid source of inner guidance. Never changing. Protecting my energy not to feel hunger. Tying myself to one person just so I don't have to think. The loyalty would be thinking for me. When I was in high school, my only friend was a very successful student. I was so driven by anger that I made an account to absolutely destroy her on the internet. I couldn't tolerate threats to my status. Her tears made me realize I tried to protect one homeostasis with me being the best, and in the process, I rocked the boat, causing conflict. Acedia hates tension, hates the unknown. She asked me once why I am never smiling. I said we can now be friends because I was never smiling. I spent the whole time exploring darkness. Only someone so sensitive and connected to their suffering could understand that girl. But just like with everyone in my life, I left a mark on her heart and disappeared from her life. Acedia aims to stay in the same place, having structured, never-changing routines, always believing I'm loved regardless of what happens, and being fluid in relationships because conflicts cause risks. This ego illusion is the core of my issues. I just don't want to be hungry...

1 hour ago, Dahlia50 said:

@BaccatePlayer Just want to say I also have neurological issues, my eyes affected tired and aching. I think others can see it in my eyes too. Is it like that for you too?
Brain burning, tensed stomach, bloating in stomach and head, absolutely chemical as you said. It’s unpleasant to say the least. Wonder If the body can heal this.

I had an adverse reaction after a dose increase over a year ago and the same feeling now when I tried to reinstate. Don't know if I have WD and problems from adverse reaction or is it the same thing. Take care! 💛🙏

I don't think others could see this in my eyes, maybe only in the form of pupil size, but from my perspective, it's quite frightening. Almost as if I had moments of being unplugged from focusing on what I see, thrown out of my visual processing. These blackouts are luckily just half a second, and it's not like I'm losing sight. In the beginning, I was experiencing snowball vision, then something like a drunk person's vision with brightness being randomly exaggerated or decreased, but it melted into flashes. Now it's mostly intense phosphenes and that headband running across the eye line. There are nerves behind the eyes that I feel are sore, my eyes feel sleepy, and that disconnected feeling occurs. I am sure we can heal from this, but I really needed around 3 weeks long blocks to notice improvements during the first months. When I'm losing hope, I just tell myself it can't get worse. Even now, I believe this isn't how my waves and windows look. This is me, being on the high end of the fatigue spectrum, and that's why I feel all this so intensely. I'm not sure if my adverse reaction is equal to cold turkey protracted withdrawal (that would be very severe), but I know no reinstatement would help here. There are success stories of people recovering from an adverse reaction to sertraline/Zoloft/Asentra, but these were mostly 25 or 50mg. My case is 100mg, so pretty bad, but I'm confident it cannot be that bad when I see so many people reporting how at the 6-9 month mark they got over the most severe waves. This sounds long, but I'm finishing the fifth month, so I don't have to go through the first 5 again. Maybe it's just one month then, maybe two. Your turn will come as well. Angels never die in my heart.

BaccatePlayer: Immediate adverse reaction to sertraline

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