☼ Cymbaltawithdrawal5600: Introduction

March 17, 2014

Hugs on a terrible day....

March 17, 2014

I am sorry you are hurting so much. Hugs to you.

March 17, 2014

dear CW, I'm so sorry to hear this

losses are awful and there are no words to describe them so I appreciate your sharing very much and I'm glad I had time to open your thread.

Bottom means that the only way we can go is up. But staying right were we are for as long as we need is also perfectly ok.

(I'm very sad thinking of my father these spring days he used to love so much. Never had a chance to say good bye, he wasn't supposed to die, he didn't make it through the winter, hanged himself and now all the springs are without him...)

big hug

March 17, 2014

Oh CW I am so sorry. Losing a pet is losing a part of the family and I feel for you.

I'm sorry too that you are watching your mum deteriorate but I am glad that you now have a

good relationship with her. It has been lovely to follow the progress you have made.

And no, you do not deserve this, no-one does. You are not the awful person you see yourself as.

We love you here and I'm sure that many people love you in real life too, you just don't see it

because you don't feel worthy. But you ARE worthy, very much so, I just wish that you could see that.

Extra special mega squishy Mamma hugs for you, because you are worth it.

March 18, 2014

thanks meimei, Amy, bubble and mammaP. been watching my mom gasp for air for over 2 wks now in the mornings, am incredibly upset. She refuses to go to doc or hosp, she wants to be at home. rest of day she is mostly OK.

I also have a bad chest cold and know I am deeply depressed. I don't want to do anything but sleep but I cant., only those few hours at night. would not wish this pain on anyone. I feel like there will never be joy in my life again. I'll be the only one left of my family.

March 18, 2014

Do you think she might have sleep apnea? My mom was diagnosed at 73. I am sure it is so very difficult watching her age.

March 18, 2014

she is 89, lung disease from smoking. mucous drains while she is sleeping and it chokes her. horrible to watch. got worse last 2 weeks after doc ordered a nebulizer. she says she won't use it tonight. thanks for asking.

March 18, 2014

That is painful to watch, I can only imagine. I hope you find peace soon.

April 15, 2014

Part 2 of the CEP survey has just been posted for those wishing to participate and who are interested. It's anonymous so think about participating if you can. See the 'In the Media' forum for the link. This is where change starts and a way for us to help change the future.

April 15, 2014

Part 2 of the CEP survey has just been posted for those wishing to participate and who are interested. It's anonymous so think about participating if you can. See the 'In the Media' forum for the link. This is where change starts and a way for us to help change the future.

Did it and hope others do too...

April 17, 2014

CW, I just popped in on you here and am struck by what you are enduring. I am so sorry for all the pain and suffering you andyour mom are going thru, I will pray for you both. Blessings. Hang in there.

EO

April 17, 2014

Thanks EO. I have no choice. I can't cushion myself with a slow taper while you still can. You don't want to go through this. Mental torture and never any release from drugs ever again. My mom suffers because I suffer. She deserves a more peaceful end to her days. Today was not a good day.

April 17, 2014

You don't want to go through this. Mental torture and never any release from drugs ever again. My mom suffers because I suffer. She deserves a more peaceful end to her days. Today was not a good day.

CW,

I hope you don't mean that you think you'll never get better. Thinking that way can only make your withdrawal more miserable, and the odds are that you will get better. Rebekah Beddoe made it, and she had drug-induced psychosis for quite a period of time. Please read that book.

I've noticed in my time here on the forum, that people who've been on SNRIs (Effexor, Pristiq) seem to have a harder time and a longer period of withdrawal than those of us coming off of SSRIs, and Cymbalta is part SNRI and part SSRI. That combination may be why your withdrawal has been somewhat drawn out. I say somewhat, because you've been in withdrawal less than six months according to your signature. I was miserable and extremely fragile at six months out. I'm at 29 months now, and feel like my old self with the exception that I seem to be awfully sensitive to some supplements and just about all stimulants, including tea, which doesn't have all that much caffeine in it.

So think as positively as you're able, and hang in there.

April 18, 2014

Jemima,

What I mean I that from my own experience the drugs did not work to help me deal with life, they actually made me numb to what I was doing to myself. They arent something i will ever try again. If i did (and my friends think I should) which drug company hype should i believe? The link in my sig explains that I CT Nov. 2012, was extremely sick then thought I was all better. Found SA when DP/DR hit 5 mos later and thought I was still OK when in reality due to poor health habits, pursuing meditation too aggressively, and bad diet I destabilized Nov. 2013 and am in protracted WD now. Can't use drugs for this awful anxiety and depression and have a life consisting of playing games on the computer all day because I am too jumpy for anything else but distraction. Lost most of my customers because I can't do the work. Sleep poorly and cry a lot. Things are so much better than 6 months ago but the improvements are so slight and are slow in coming. No need to mention the terrible thoughts, that seems universal, I just don't post mine but I have them.

I tell others they will get better but I don't believe it for myself. Living this life of quiet desperation for an indefinite period scares me deeply. I am so afraid I'll lose my will to live after my mom dies. All other family far away and I don't want to think about how I'll support myself. Ah, heck. I posted all this crap in Iggy's thread and now I'm crying again. Forget it.

April 18, 2014

Thanks EO. I have no choice. I can't cushion myself with a slow taper while you still can. You don't want to go through this. Mental torture and never any release from drugs ever again. My mom suffers because I suffer. She deserves a more peaceful end to her days. Today was not a good day.

I'm so sorry CW. I've got to believe I'll get better even if slow and I believe it true for you too.

Virutal hug if that helps.

Blessings

EO

April 18, 2014

Nothing is helping tonight but thanks again EO. This is the part you don't want to go through.

April 18, 2014

You wrote somewhere in a post recently, can't remember which one, can't even remember exactly how you put it, but you wrote that you don't think you can help anyone. By writing that, you helped me, because I feel exactly the same way, but people say what I write helps, I can't even begin to imagine why....it makes me hesitant to even try sometimes, my own beliefs I mean, so I struggle to overcome them and keep doing what seems to be needed, from moment to moment, so....

in spite of feeling like I can't write anything to help and your current feeling of being beyond help, I'm going write something which is true for me, maybe you will be able to relate to it.

More often than not, regardless of what I write here, deep inside I feel like I'm not going to heal either. What I mean is that I can't see my life being any other way than what it is right now, sometimes I see it getting worse, as I continue to age and the situation around me continues to deteriorate because I become less capable of taking care of things. My thoughts and feelings about all this can easily spiral out of control, and sometimes they do. But what I'm finding, more and more is that if I can actually hold this image or idea as a potential future possibility, which will take care of itself if and when it happens, then I'm able to relax back into the present reality, which might actually not be all that great, but its bearable. Maybe I'm not describing this very well, but I let myself look at my thoughts and feel what they are doing in my body and then it gets to a point where I realize there's not a thing I can do right now to change something which may or may not happen in the future, but I can let the thoughts go and let the future take care of itself. Right here, right now, I'm ok, and its all I've got. Its all any of us have got. I can make this one moment in time, which is all I have, worse, by imagining all kinds of horrors, or I can be kind to myself and peacefully rest in my one single present moment, doing what I'm doing.

There seems to be a subtle flow-on effect from being able to do this. This deep acceptance of myself in my obvious imperfect state, even if I can hold it in awareness for a few moments, is slowly restoring my sense of inner value.

I'm still learning how to do this and some days are harder than others, but when I manage, there is real peace to be found, moment to moment.

None of us know what is going to happen in the future, we don't know what will happen one minute from now, next week, next month or next year. I'm not just writing that, if you really think about it, its the truth.

Sometimes I get to a place where I can completely accept that I'm never going to recover and feel any better than I do now. It helps not having people around me to compare myself with, or who seem to put a kind of pressure on me to be different from how I am, but when I can get to this place of complete self acceptance of myself how I am right now, that's when the struggle stops and there is a deep kind of relaxation.... it feels good for my nervous system and I think it actually helps with the healing.

If I can manage to attain this state of acceptance while going through some of the more extreme symptoms, then they seem to subside quicker.

Seeing as I'm in your thread anyway, I will mention some things which occurred to me as I've been reading some of your posts around the site.

Taurine - you commented that it didn't work for you. Perhaps it needs to build up for some people. I stopped taking it because I forgot to take it one day, and I didn't notice any significant difference, I had been cutting down anyway. I thought that maybe it had been a placebo effect, but I've noticed that slowly, the mental anxiety has been creeping back in, but I've been noticing it and been using my own 'powers' to deal with it. I did take one today though and will probably stick with one per day for a while, I have mixed feelings about even taking supplements these days.

Black Cohosh- this definitely reduces heat and sweats. (for me) I wasn't sure, so I stopped taking this also, its not perfect and maybe its dose dependent, I've never taken more than the recommended dose, but when I take it I rarely have heat/sweat during the day and at night they are reduced in number and intensity. This is the symptom which disrupts my sleep, since being back on the Black Cohosh I've been sleeping better again.

I know what you mean about never again being able to get any relief from life's problems with drugs, we are living life without a safety net now, perhaps we should be proud of ourselves for our courage.

April 18, 2014

you wrote that you don't think you can help anyone

I've been posting a lot lately thinking I am trying to help people by sharing my experience both of what protracted withdrawal is like and what I have gained from reading the experiences of others. And why I got on drugs to begin with and how I feel about them now. I see things in what people write which may not be there. For instance:

Many people come here in crisis from fast tapering of their drugs by well meaning doctors or their own ideas. From their experience the mods suggest to them that reinstating a small amount of the drug and then doing a slow taper is the best way to go. Are you sure, they say? Maybe I'll just tough it out. Or try supplements. Be careful they are advised. We have plenty of member experiences for you to read about here so you won't risk making it worse. We can only safely recommend 2 supplements and they don't work for everyone but seem to be ok for most people. So give them a try. Ok but Dr.so and so or the naturopath or my friend says these are ok or the internet says so but I'll be careful. But reinstating a small amount of the drug and slowly tapering is still the best way to go to relieve your suffering now and give your nervous system a chance to deal with the withdrawal of the drug and maintain your quality of life. I intuitively know that this is probably true. Rhi is doing this and is one of many examples.

But they say no, maybe it won't work that way for me. I think I'll just keep on the way I am and maybe things will get better. They never notice how the mods and admins stop encouraging them to try it this way. Then the second stringers like me chime in and try to be helpful. As I am writing this I can see that I am angry at myself and trying to figure out why. Because this really has nothing to do with them, it's about me. And why I am still posting here. I am not getting much better.

I am getting too upset to continue, maybe later. Or maybe I will just stuff this realization down and not talk about it because what's the use? I'm going to die anyway and so are all the people I have come to know and love. That's a fact.

These drugs mess with your ability to think and see reality. I look back now and see where I was getting worse and worse after my arrival here last year. I was drawn in to having a 'spiritual awakening' because I thought it would end my awful experience of life and make it all better. People would be healed just by being around me. I'd be happy sitting in my chair and experiencing my breathing. So I started meditation in earnest and little did I know that the way I was doing it caused my system to completely destabilize. Paradoxical relaxation response. Fancy term for your body not letting you relax into sleep because if you do you won't be able to defend yourself from danger. Primitive unerasable response. Now I have broken sleep and am just barely able to control my akasthisia. Some days I am hanging on by a thread. I don't want to die but I don't want to live like this. Hang on, you say. It gets better. Really? How do you know it will for me? You don't but you'll never say anything to kill my hope. That's inhuman.

Something else might have done it too. I overexerted myself several times. Drank too much caffeine and ate primarily starches. Then no exercise. Laid around in bed all day and read spiritual teachers and was off in airy fairy land. Didn't sleep properly. Had a lot of xylocaine injected into my system for dental work which I put off for 10 years. Took vistaril whenever I got too anxious because the doctor told me it was ok. Never looked here to see that it was not a good idea.

I need to curb my desire to 'help'.

April 18, 2014

I understand you dear CW.

I very often feel the same and that's why I admire Alto so much. It is so hard to see that people are harming themselves badly, driving themselves into the awful state you yourself are experiencing and yet not being able to do anything about it.

But some people actually do listen. We just do the best we can and try to find a way to be at peace about whether the other person will accept that or not.

I'm glad you shared this with us.

I don't want to add any encouragements. I somehow feel it wouldn't be appropriate. I just wanted to let you know that somebody is here, that we have heard you and accept you the way you feel at this very moment.

April 18, 2014

Thanks bubble. I just can't accept me right now. I hate myself for being this way.

April 18, 2014

CW, what I see from out here is someone in protracted withdrawal, in a wave, dealing with a dying parent and a lot of grief, and expressing thoughts and feelings that I have had myself and that are practically universal in withdrawal. Especially, and I can't emphasize this enough, that sense that it has never been much better than this (even though if you read through your own thread you will see that at times you have felt better) and the belief that it will never get any better than this.

That particular thing, that sense that how it feels now is the only way it has felt and the only way it is going to feel--that thing needs a name. Like akathisia has a name, like head zaps have a name, that particular brand of blind hopeless thinking needs a name, because it's so damn common and universal and it always sounds pretty much exactly the same no matter who's stuck in it.

And part of that nameless thing is that you also feel like no matter what anyone says, this time it's you and it's not that nameless thing, this time it's different, it's real, it's forever.

That's just more of the Nameless.

Yes, you have had a particularly challenging course. But other people have too and they've pulled through eventually. (Gia comes to mind--believe me, she was way worse off than you are, and for years.)

You're going through a particularly stressful time right now and I'm not surprised it's hitting you hard.

I don't expect my words to actually fix anything. I know when you're stuck in the Nameless Place, it's pretty much impossible to see out. But I'm out here on the outside and this is what it looks like to me.

All my best to you. Hang in there. Do your best to do the things you know are good for you, when you can, as much as you can. It's all you can do.

April 18, 2014

Rhi said:

"Adelsax, you're a breath of fresh air. I came to your thread today after posting in another of those "I just quit practically cold turkey and I'm sick and miserable but I'm not going to actually listen to your advice because I know better" threads."

I had a good laugh! Those threads I'm going to have to put a limit on. If after several posts from mods and admins urging reinstatement and a slow taper they don't get well they sure aren't going to listen to me. The fact that most people who are on these drugs don't have the ability to make good decisions anymore is not something anyone can help them overcome.

You're right, Rhi. I'm in a bad place and see no way out to have any chance at a life even if I do recover.

I am so lonely. Never been lonely before in my life. I thought maybe if I helped out here I'd feel like my suffering had a purpose. I made a post here today about what I thought was the reason for my upset about not being helpful but the computer ate it. I'm too tired to try again.

April 19, 2014

I just wrote a post, but then deleted it, because as Rhi said, words aren't going to fix anything. So instead I'm sending ((hugs)). Hang in there and please keep posting if it helps.

April 19, 2014

Hi Petu,

Wish you would have posted. I need the words desperately. Hate to say it but I do. Any words, so I'll make do with what you did write. I never tire of reading them. It is the contact from those who understand that I crave. Have never felt so alone in my life because because I don't like being with myself. Can't seem to shake it.

I wish you weren't so ill and I wish I wasn't too.

April 19, 2014

CW,

I am so sorry for the pain you are going through. I had no idea that both you and your mom are suffering so badly.

I apologize that I haven't been following too many threads recently. Thank you for your encouragement to me today. It means very much.

Many hugs, CW.

April 19, 2014

Thanks Barb, I posted in your thread. Sweetie, I wish so much for you that you can get better. These drugs have wasted so many lives and we just didn't know. The poor docs don't know either.

April 19, 2014

Yep, that intense loneliness is awful, and is also very much of a withdrawal symptom. You're being battered by this wave of neuro-emotion. I swear I will take any physical symptoms over those any day.

I can tell you right now: it is going to get better. You are definitely going to feel better.

Not that that's much help. But hang in there.

Often going for a gentle walk, if I can drag myself out the door, helps. I would say that with these intense neuro-emotion symptoms the things that have helped most are walking, and social contact. Those are the things that give me at least a bit of temporary relief or easing. Unfortunately usually when I'm feeling like what you're describing, it's really hard to summon up the will to do either of those things. But if you can manage it, please try it, gently.

April 19, 2014

CW,

I also think that a lot of what you're going through is neuro-emotion. I always found it comforting to read the topics on this subject when I was feeling hopeless. This is the main one: Neuro-emotion , and if you click that little gear beside the search box (upper right of the page), enter neuro-emotion, Symptoms and self-care, and "Search only in titles", you'll come up with a lot more. It helped me immensely to know how common those feelings of hopelessness are and that a physical condition (a hypersensitive nervous system) was causing my feelings to be greatly exaggerated. It is a kind of physical illness, much like the extreme light sensitivity many of us have experienced. It is difficult to see anything but bleakness and blackness where you are now, but life will gradually begin to look brighter as you heal.

Really. What you're feeling now is exaggerated, false emotion. Try to hang onto that.

April 19, 2014

Dear CW,

I have nothing more to add to what Rhi and Jemima said but just wanted to let you know that we are here with you. We all know that feeling of incredible loneliness that even the presence of other people can't ease.

Reminding ourselves over and over again that these are neuroemotions helps a lot (such a useful concept that helps us to survive).

I would also want to underline what Rhi said about gently steering ourselves into an activity. The paradox of that state is that when we most need activity, everything in us is against it and we just feel we absolutely can't do it. Did we talk about buying yourself a raincoat for when it rains?

I have so much experience almost literally forcing myself out of the bed and through the door and then experiencing a change I couldn't have imagined before. I call such days operating with the help of a crane. If you could just find nice nature or a park nearby and just go regardless of how you feel. This always makes me proud of myself-this feeling that I did something useful for myself.

I appreciate it very much that you are sharing how you feel with us so openly and honestly.

April 19, 2014

Thanks Rhi and Jemima and Bubble.

I have a friend who calls me for a walk every daily and even though I don't want to I go nearly every day. She even came and picked me up when I was too terrified to meet her.

The thing that sets me off (and I know it is neuro emotion) is when I find myself thinking about how limited my daily activities have become and I project that into an even uglier future. I don't want to write about that just now. The sitting around is getting to me but I do get out like I said.

I just had a meltdown over some dog sitting I have to do at my house this weekend. I'm tired.

Thanks for being there for me. I am so grateful.

April 19, 2014

I'm very, very happy to hear you go out and with a friend! You have to give yourself a lot of credit for that!

(Do you notice how neuroemotions sabotage you so that you overlook this very important development and forget to mention it? Neuroemotions paint everything black...)

Also projecting the present horror into the future is a very common neuro trick. No one knows what the future holds. Logically we understand that very well but the first thing that happens when we feel bad is that we imagine it will be like this from now on till eternity. Happened to me yesterday. So I'm reminding both you and myself that this is simply not true.

It is also very encouraging that you reach out and that we can reach back to you. I'd like to hear more about the dog sitting experience when and if you are in the mood.

April 21, 2014

I don't care that this is neuro emotion. Now I understand how Iggy feels. I can't take one more day of this but there is nothing I can do to help myself to stop these thoughts and deep feeling of shame. I am dying sitting in this place every day. I have jobs to do and I do them and come home and sit here. I have so much hate and anger inside me and it is directed on me. Can't stop crying or weeping. It is upsetting my mom.

This is why you don't want to do a CT or a rapid taper because you don't want to be stuck in this mental hell day after day.

My arms are getting sore from keeping them folded up while I tap on my tablet. The mag isn't helping as much to lessen the soreness. I will go mad if I can't keep distracting myself. There is no joy in accepting my helplessness right now, only deep despair. It is so hard to accept what my life has become, I know that is what I am fighting.

So that's it.

April 22, 2014

There is no way, I mean NO WAY you can know the future. Staying in the moment helped me a lot in my recovery, and while it can be difficult at times, it's well worth the effort. If you think that circumstances can't change in an instant, watch the TV news or listen to the radio. Most of what you'll see is tragic stuff, but miracles happen every day too. Sometimes what seems to be a small thing can totally change our outlook.

I don't know if you'll find this helpful or not, but Rhi just posted a topic on hopelessness: Rhi's Topic Please note that the writer she quotes says, "giving up all hope of alternatives to the present moment". The quote struck me as very similar to the saying, "Let go and let God". I get the feeling that some of your pain is from trying so hard to not only control what's happening now, but what's going to happen in the future. I believe that we have some minor control over day-to-day events, but the big stuff, the overall picture, is being run by the Big Guy Up There, and that I might as well go bang my head on the hood of my car for all the good rebelling against that will do.

I'm not asking you to hope--I remember all too well the impossibility of that when I was in withdrawal--but do try to focus on the here and now and know that things are happening as they should. (I know, I know, life can often be a raw deal, but accepting that makes living easier. Something good will come of this in the long run.)

April 22, 2014

I completely agree with J

this is part of withdrawal this state and it is rough no two ways about it...

use the entire toolbox if you must bit by bit to get thru this and one day it will ease.

April 22, 2014

CW,

Your words hit a deep place in me. Especially:

"It is so hard to accept what my life has become, I know that is what I am fighting."

I'd have to read back to see when your bad times began, but when this hell hits on top of or after another years long illness or injury that already wiped out a chance for a somewhat *normal* or productive life, it brings on the helplessness so strongly. (I think Seligman wrote about this, but not positive).

Give yourself heaps of credit for doing the jobs you do! That's far more than many people without health issues and definitely more than me since withdrawal. I also feel like I am dying sitting/ laying in this place everyday.

Let's hang in there.

April 23, 2014

I don't care that this is neuro emotion. Now I understand how Iggy feels. I can't take one more day of this but there is nothing I can do to help myself to stop these thoughts and deep feeling of shame. I am dying sitting in this place every day. I have jobs to do and I do them and come home and sit here. I have so much hate and anger inside me and it is directed on me. Can't stop crying or weeping. It is upsetting my mom.

This is why you don't want to do a CT or a rapid taper because you don't want to be stuck in this mental hell day after day.

My arms are getting sore from keeping them folded up while I tap on my tablet. The mag isn't helping as much to lessen the soreness. I will go mad if I can't keep distracting myself. There is no joy in accepting my helplessness right now, only deep despair. It is so hard to accept what my life has become, I know that is what I am fighting.

So that's it.

". It is so hard to accept what my life has become, I know that is what I am fighting."

I know.

This is the resistance I had it too... wanting to will it away and fight back and in some respect it is part of what defeats us... as it keeps the systems going that are part of the problem... the hyperactive part of the body brain.. it is a feed back system.. anxiety strain stress feed back in to more coritistol stress type crap...

I think it is normal to resist it is part of our makeup to fight back... just in this instance it works against us... this is my own thinking not something I have read.

I found when I could get to a deep state of relaxation it helped my healing.

I would like to say acceptance is key to getting on with it... but I don't believe it and I will never truly accept it... I'm just not built that way. I can't say uncle. Please know I am not say that at all I am saying lose one battle it feels right to win and carry on to win the war... I hope this makes sense I am not sure it does.

There is no winning some of this thru fighting it.. I know I tried.. staying around long enough to get to the other side of this and lessen the affects if you can is the key... by whatever means necessary. EXCEPT drugs unless it is a last resort... I completely understand Iggy too.

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