Terry4949: withdrawal help

[Hibari]

28 minutes ago, Terry4949 said:

Thank you for your kind words I just find after nearly 6 years free of all meds it so disheartening to still feel so sick and like I have just quit the drugs I’m sorry that you are still struggling I think the toxic little sleep I’m getting isn’t helping 

Not getting sleep is very hard. 

 

I has to back on a sleep med because of that.  I'm not recommending that at all.  

 

Setbacks do make us feel like all our hard work is for nothing but people recover from setbacks all the time. 

 

I have to have hope that I and you will recover as well. 

[joy2730]

Do you feel worse now than when you were on certain meds?  I have a feeling I may be saying the wrong thing but it is worth thinking about!

[Altostrata]

@Terry4949 Might you have covid? When was the last time you had a general checkup?

[RachelSusan]

@Terry4949 The reason I ask is because I was thinking possibly some sleep apnea to go along with your cortisol spikes. An episode of apnea can mimic cortisol spikes, some people have both issues at once. Those symptoms would be shaking and jolting awake, not necessarily feeling short of breath. I am certainly no doctor but maybe you might consider at least asking about it? The waiting list might be long so you could ask and always change your mind if you don't feel it applies as you get closer. I know sleep deprivation is awful and I hate to see you suffer with it.

[Terry4949]

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

@Terry4949 Might you have covid? When was the last time you had a general checkup?

Checked for covid negative I did have it 2 years ago but it was short lived luckily and it didn’t spike my withdrawals any worse than what they were I had a general check up about 3 months ago apart from high ferritin all was in range it’s seems everything has gone really bad since the 2 am cortisol surges have started again but they have come out of the blue 

[Terry4949]

6 hours ago, RachelSusan said:

@Terry4949 The reason I ask is because I was thinking possibly some sleep apnea to go along with your cortisol spikes. An episode of apnea can mimic cortisol spikes, some people have both issues at once. Those symptoms would be shaking and jolting awake, not necessarily feeling short of breath. I am certainly no doctor but maybe you might consider at least asking about it? The waiting list might be long so you could ask and always change your mind if you don't feel it applies as you get closer. I know sleep deprivation is awful and I hate to see you suffer with it.

Thank you I have never really slept well for the last 6 years on average 3 if I’m lucky 4 hours a night I can fall a sleep easy which is a god send but I’m always awake by 1am but didn’t have the cortisol spikes and I would just be restless but sometimes I could fall back to sleep for a hour I never feel like I have slept constantly feeling fatigued but now I have to get up horrible waves of cortisol and adrenaline I get so hot and sweaty and sleep is down to about 2-3 hours 

I will try to speak to my doctor about sleep issues but they are not very cooperative as they look at my history a blame it all on anxiety and depression and tell me I need medication 

[ChessieCat]

Q:  Have you considered that you might suffer from sleep apnea?

 

I have lost weight as a result of changing my diet to low carb due to a diabetes diagnosis and I have noticed that the quality of my sleep is much better than it was.

[ChessieCat]

I occasionally wake up with a cortisol spike or can be lying dozing in bed and if I start thinking about stressful things I can feel a cortisol spike come on.  Do you do any relaxing and calming exercises during the day?

[Terry4949]

I’m starting to think my adrenals have crashed I feel so lightheaded I want to sleep but can’t I feel like I’m drunk but I havnt been drinking I feel restless and so tired I’m thirsty all the time and keep having to urinate I think the early morning  waking with the cortisol has caused me to crash I look very pale as well maybe this is what has triggered my relapse 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by ChessieCat
deitalicised font

[ChessieCat]

2 minutes ago, Terry4949 said:

I’m thirsty all the time

 

Q:  Have you been checked for diabetes?

 

If not, I suggest that you get a fasting HbA1c test done and whatever other test the doctor might suggest; it is a good idea to get a liver function test.

[Terry4949]

3 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Q:  Have you been checked for diabetes?

 

If not, I suggest that you get a fasting HbA1c test done and whatever other test the doctor might suggest; it is a good idea to get a liver function test.

Hi thank you for your reply I have just spoken to my doctor and they want to do some more extensive test as my last few blood tests over the years have said I have high ferritin way above levels but they have not seem bothered about it also the doctor said once they had carried out these tests they could then look at other avenues as these tests had to be done first to be able for them to authorise more 

you mention a Liver function test when I was on venalaxafine  for about 2 years the whites of my eyes constantly yellow which I now no is a sign of damage to the liver I wonder if that maybe contributing to my ever going symptoms 

I have been checked before for diabetes and that was clear 

 

[RachelSusan]

8 hours ago, Terry4949 said:

will try to speak to my doctor about sleep issues but they are not very cooperative as they look at my history a blame it all on anxiety and depression and tell me I need medication 

It's difficult when you are trying to get medical care and have already been labeled in a way that would end up with you being denied consideration of any other areas of care. If you do decide that you want to ask more about sleep apnea I am sure that you already know how carefully you must word your request in order not to get a dismissive answer.

[Terry4949]

5 minutes ago, RachelSusan said:

It's difficult when you are trying to get medical care and have already been labeled in a way that would end up with you being denied consideration of any other areas of care. If you do decide that you want to ask more about sleep apnea I am sure that you already know how carefully you must word your request in order not to get a dismissive answer.

Yes I totally agree the doctor I spoke to was very nice I told her my notes will show a history of depression but I think that she wanted to rule somethings out like why has the high ferritin been over looked for so long which is a good thing as I believe it means my blood has to much iron , also she said we would look at other things when the tests come back to be honest I fall a sleep ok it just only for a couple of hours then the adrenaline and cortisol kick in I never ever hardly dream it’s like just being knocked out then wake with a huge jolt 

[RachelSusan]

@Terry4949 So maybe the way to approach it with the doctor is to tell her that you fall asleep fine but that you wake up every few hours with a jolt and you are tired all the time during the day?  Maybe leaving out cortisol and adrenaline would leave her room to hear what you are saying and not dismiss you due to your label of anxiety?

 

Even if the cortisol spikes continue but you find, that at least some of the time, your waking up in such an uncomfortable manner is due something else, wouldn't it be wonderful to get even a little relief?  Also I am not saying it is sleep apnea, I have absolutely no way to know that, but I thought it would be nice if you could be given a sleep study and then based on the results either rule it out or get treatment.

 

I also thought ChessieCat's question about diabetes was very appropriate considering your comments, however you say you were checked for that, so I'm glad it was ruled out.

 

Terry, I know you are having a hard time.  I feel a lot of empathy for your situation and hope better days come to you very soon.

[Terry4949]

Just now, RachelSusan said:

@Terry4949 So maybe the way to approach it with the doctor is to tell her that you fall asleep fine but that you wake up every few hours with a jolt and you are tired all the time during the day?  Maybe leaving out cortisol and adrenaline would leave her room to hear what you are saying and not dismiss you due to your label of anxiety?

 

Even if the cortisol spikes continue but you find, that at least some of the time, your waking up in such an uncomfortable manner is due something else, wouldn't it be wonderful to get even a little relief?  Also I am not saying it is sleep apnea, I have absolutely no way to know that, but I thought it would be nice if you could be given a sleep study and then based on the results either rule it out or get treatment.

 

I also thought ChessieCat's question about diabetes was very appropriate considering your comments, however you say you were checked for that, so I'm glad it was ruled out.

 

Terry, I know you are having a hard time.  I feel a lot of empathy for your situation and hope better days come to you very soon.

 

Just now, RachelSusan said:

@Terry4949 So maybe the way to approach it with the doctor is to tell her that you fall asleep fine but that you wake up every few hours with a jolt and you are tired all the time during the day?  Maybe leaving out cortisol and adrenaline would leave her room to hear what you are saying and not dismiss you due to your label of anxiety?

 

Even if the cortisol spikes continue but you find, that at least some of the time, your waking up in such an uncomfortable manner is due something else, wouldn't it be wonderful to get even a little relief?  Also I am not saying it is sleep apnea, I have absolutely no way to know that, but I thought it would be nice if you could be given a sleep study and then based on the results either rule it out or get treatment.

 

I also thought ChessieCat's question about diabetes was very appropriate considering your comments, however you say you were checked for that, so I'm glad it was ruled out.

 

Terry, I know you are having a hard time.  I feel a lot of empathy for your situation and hope better days come to you very soon.

Thank you for your time I appreciate it very it will take about 7- 10 days to get my results then to speak to the doctor so will then mention what you said about the sleep I understand that if I keep bringing up the cortisol thing they might just say it’s anxiety from my previous note 

my need to have my heart checked next the last two days I have had severe chest pain like someone is sitting on it a real ache never had before it’s one thing after another and I have no cold or chest infection it could be just stress where I feel so unwell 

[Terry4949]

In serious trouble deep anxiety and dread and panic is back with a vengeance awful suicidal idealation back pacing round the room ever since the cortisol,mornings started again the lack of sleep is killing me if I do drop of for 10 minutes I wake feeling so toxic if I call for medical assistance they will only put me on drugs just don’t know what to do just can’t understand why I have gone back so severe lost all my family and friends have no help this is the only place I can talk 

[RachelSusan]

@Terry4949 Sounds terrible Terry. I know this is a long term situation but is there anything you can try at this very moment to self calm yourself?  I mean even something as small as taking a warm shower or warm bath?  Very soft meditation music? Recordings of ocean sounds which can be listened to on YouTube for free? Anything at all that you can think of? You just have to get through these moments and any ideas that you could come up with to try would be most helpful to yourself. I know you are currently experiencing extreme discomfort.

[RachelSusan]

@Terry4949 If you are experiencing suicidal thoughts then you do need to reach out to either someone in the medical profession or someone you trust that can make a decision in regard to calling a medical professional into the situation. I know you fear being drugged but this is something you must take very seriously. Only you know how close you are to acting on these impulses. You are important to us here on this site, I am sure you are important to others in your life and no one wants to loose you.

[joy2730]

4 minutes ago, RachelSusan said:

@Terry4949 Sounds terrible Terry. I know this is a long term situation but is there anything you can try at this very moment to self calm yourself?  I mean even something as small as taking a warm shower or warm bath?  Very soft meditation music? Recordings of ocean sounds which can be listened to on YouTube for free? Anything at all that you can think of? You just have to get through these moments and any ideas that you could come up with to try would be most helpful to yourself. I know you are currently experiencing extreme discomfort.

I have lived a long time now both with and without meds.  Some people do seem to have happier and more productive lives with them.  Have you seen a psychiatrist at all?

[Terry4949]

1 hour ago, RachelSusan said:

@Terry4949 If you are experiencing suicidal thoughts then you do need to reach out to either someone in the medical profession or someone you trust that can make a decision in regard to calling a medical professional into the situation. I know you fear being drugged but this is something you must take very seriously. Only you know how close you are to acting on these impulses. You are important to us here on this site, I am sure you are important to others in your life and no one wants to loose you.

Thank you for your reply I had suicidal idealations for nearly 2 years constant at year 2 - 4 everyday they were there then they went but now they are back in horrible waves it’s not the anxiety and depression so much it’s the chemical feeling running through my veins that killing me it’s non stop I had this in the early years it was unbearable it took 3 years to drop to a level that was liveable and now it’s back I think the thoughts that are ruminating in my head are fear of surviving it all again just wish I new what triggered it I fear they will lock me up again and medicate me 

[Terry4949]

1 hour ago, joy2730 said:

I have lived a long time now both with and without meds.  Some people do seem to have happier and more productive lives with them.  Have you seen a psychiatrist at all?

Yes physiatrist over the years have just wanted me back on meds and being kindled they don’t understand they don’t have any other tools in there box only drugs there have been times when I have prayed to go back on drugs just for relief but after having so many and being kindled the suffering was unbearable and here I am 6 years now and feel like I took my first pill yesterday thank you for taking time to reply to me 

[RachelSusan]

@Terry4949 Terry,

 

I want to make sure that I accurately heard what you are saying as it is sometimes hard for me to understand when I am just reading a post.  It sounds to me like you are saying you have two things going on at the same time.  The first would be the chemical feeling and then the second thing would be the fear of all of this starting again, long term. Would my interpenetration be accurate?  While at the moment you cannot control the chemical feeling perhaps you can do something to distract from the fear itself. 

 

I am sure you wish you knew what triggered this chemical feeling because you could then control it. But in absence of knowing what triggered it, at least for now, perhaps you can ask yourself what can you do to self calm. Is there anything that has worked for you in the past or anything that you can think of to even try now? Something mild and something soothing?  I know it may sound silly but for me it was to sip water.  I might not even be dehydrated but the simple act of having to take sips of water distracted me.  I am not suggesting that you do this, I am however suggesting that you try something, anything, as long as it is safe.  If pacing the room (you mentioned earlier) helps then by all means do it. But if it is ramping you up then consider something else. If sitting down and quietly thinking about things you could try then sit down with a piece of paper in front of you and write down things you might consider trying.

 

I hope this most stressful moment passes quickly for you. I do understand and can relate to the situation you are in. I do however feel the need to repeat once more, if you feel you are in danger of acting on your self harm thoughts you must alert someone in real life, not just here on the website.  Sending my support.

[RachelSusan]

@Terry4949 I also have to thank you.  I too have been experiencing some agitation this morning, not related to this website or withdrawal, but there never-the-less.  After re-reading the post I just sent you I realized that I have to do something to take down my agitation a few notches as well. In other words,  I realized I have to follow the suggestions I just gave you. So I am going to get up now and go do what I need to do for myself. If I hadn't been corresponding with you I would have just suffered this morning because as you know it is very hard to get motivated. So I am genuine in my thanks to you for getting me to look inward at myself.  😀

[Terry4949]

1 hour ago, RachelSusan said:

@Terry4949 I also have to thank you.  I too have been experiencing some agitation this morning, not related to this website or withdrawal, but there never-the-less.  After re-reading the post I just sent you I realized that I have to do something to take down my agitation a few notches as well. In other words,  I realized I have to follow the suggestions I just gave you. So I am going to get up now and go do what I need to do for myself. If I hadn't been corresponding with you I would have just suffered this morning because as you know it is very hard to get motivated. So I am genuine in my thanks to you for getting me to look inward at myself.  😀

Thank you for your reply and words I think because the severity of it all hitting me so hard and the overwhelming feelings being constant it makes it so hard to break away from the overwhelming symptoms and to distract from it over the last 6 years I have somehow managed to survive and because of the intensity of it all now I believe it will be like this forever but I have still survived it has been a living hell for most of the time but there have been better times so I know it can improve 

when you have a intense feelings you just focus on them so I know I have to break away from it but the depression is keeping from doing anything the motivation is so hard but the depression has come on so deep in the last 8 days it crushes my soul and I think this is the hardest battle of all for me 

I have spent so many years of my life being in a depression state months and months and so many years have been taken but now every time I get a phase of depression it seems so much deeper and harder to pull back through its probably good therapy writing this as I am in floods of tears but I have spent the best part of 20 years in depression and tried so many things to help myself but I keep finding myself back in the same hole so this is where I think I lack belief because of the years of set backs 

[joy2730]

2 hours ago, Terry4949 said:

Yes physiatrist over the years have just wanted me back on meds and being kindled they don’t understand they don’t have any other tools in there box only drugs there have been times when I have prayed to go back on drugs just for relief but after having so many and being kindled the suffering was unbearable and here I am 6 years now and feel like I took my first pill yesterday thank you for taking time to reply to me 

Are you managing basic self care of you and your home?  Do you have any distraction like a hobby or any social support places to go to?  Do you have financial worries?  Are you lonely?  All these are factors in mental health.

[redkite]

Hi Terry. you sound like a fighter, and the sipping of water works, ray mears does it in the wilds so it does work, water helps the brain calm down. Cortisol spikes are vile vile vile, i light candels and tell them to **** off!!!!! Also sing the song babilion is burning there is a line" with anxiety" and I shout this out!!! Ring the samartitans they are amazing and have really helped me in the past, the number is free and they listen and understand your pain. Its worth a try. Classic FM is all I can listen to somedays, and just get threw the day. keep putting one foot infront of the other, breath deep, watch the stars, listen to the wind and hold on. Your symptoms came on quick and may go quick, keep on keeping on. I will light a candle for you now and keep it buring threw the night. Take care Redkite

[Terry4949]

1 hour ago, joy2730 said:

Are you managing basic self care of you and your home?  Do you have any distraction like a hobby or any social support places to go to?  Do you have financial worries?  Are you lonely?  All these are factors in mental health.

I can still wash and shower my home is tidy I still maintain personal hygiene I can cook but don’t have any appetite at the moment I do have a great hobby I love fishing but I am to sick to even think about that the anxiety and depression wouldn’t let me concentrate to be honest I have no social support my family and friends became distant many years ago when I went into withdrawal they got fed up I think as I never made any improvements and for 2 years I was physically unable to leave the house many of them said I wasn’t trying or I needed to be on the drugs that put in this mess

i have no financial worries in one respect I don’t owe any money I don’t have debts  in fact my life is a good one my 2 children are grown up and doing well for themselves I have a nice home etc but I am not working because of the way I feel so eventually my savings will diminish I would say I am lonely as no one understands what physical and mental anguish I am going through to be honest it’s only the members of this group who understand what is and has happened to me they are the only people I can talk to 

my friends and family think that I need to get and do more but it’s not that simple many years ago I had depression and I could motivate myself much more into combating it and make some sort of effort to beat it as that’s all I felt was depressed but that all changed when I was kindled I now have to deal with it but have 24/7 horrendous symptoms that make things so much harder 

thank you for asking after me 

[Terry4949]

1 hour ago, redkite said:

Hi Terry. you sound like a fighter, and the sipping of water works, ray mears does it in the wilds so it does work, water helps the brain calm down. Cortisol spikes are vile vile vile, i light candels and tell them to **** off!!!!! Also sing the song babilion is burning there is a line" with anxiety" and I shout this out!!! Ring the samartitans they are amazing and have really helped me in the past, the number is free and they listen and understand your pain. Its worth a try. Classic FM is all I can listen to somedays, and just get threw the day. keep putting one foot infront of the other, breath deep, watch the stars, listen to the wind and hold on. Your symptoms came on quick and may go quick, keep on keeping on. I will light a candle for you now and keep it buring threw the night. Take care Redkite

Thank you for you response in my early days of withdrawal I did ring the Samaritans many times and they were good at listen and were a huge comfort I drink plenty of water about 2 litres a day so I am always sipping I find music very stimulating for me it makes very emotional I used to love the 80s music and now when I hear it I find it very upsetting as I think it takes me back to the time when I didn’t feel like this 

thank you for lighting a candle for me lovely words 

[Terry4949]

I fell a sleep at 10 o’clock last night slept for about 4 hours but I have noticed over the last 3 or 4 days that i am so fatigued I just keep closing my eyes but all of the time through out the day I feel like I am drunk or high I can barely keep my eyes open but when I try to sleep I can’t I jerk a lot but the overwhelming feeling of being intoxicated is something I have never experienced I do not drink any alcohol or smoke nor do any drugs I just cannot get up for this feeling anyone else felt like this

[joy2730]

It sounds like you are battling on.  Thank you for replying to me re your social situation which sounds fine really.  A few more thoughts - do you have any faith?  Do you keep a mood diary - 1 to 10.  1 being the worst you have felt and 10 being the best.  Also could you work on improving your physical health as a physical well body can feed into the mind.  A gym might be too much to start with but brisk walking may help.  If you don't want meds then you must try with physical health and nutrition ie don't eat processed food.  Take care.  Do you have a pet?

[Terry4949]

2 hours ago, joy2730 said:

It sounds like you are battling on.  Thank you for replying to me re your social situation which sounds fine really.  A few more thoughts - do you have any faith?  Do you keep a mood diary - 1 to 10.  1 being the worst you have felt and 10 being the best.  Also could you work on improving your physical health as a physical well body can feed into the mind.  A gym might be too much to start with but brisk walking may help.  If you don't want meds then you must try with physical health and nutrition ie don't eat processed food.  Take care.  Do you have a pet?

I use to keep a mood diary in the first few years but I never saw any improvements ever no windows and I found it very depressing and alarming because I could see no change at all even at 2 years it was horrific reading it would have been 1 on all days as for my physical health I am 55 years old now I did do a lot of walking in fact a hour everyday but at the moment I am so sick if I walk to the bottom of the garden I get so hot go very clammy and dizzy like I am going to pass out so any exercise at the moment is not good for me 

my diet is very good I don’t eat junk food dont drink or smoke but I must admit the last few days I have struggled to eat anything with this dark depression 

I did have 2 lovely dogs they sadly both passed away now aged 14 and 15 and it was so hard having to say goodbye that I can’t face having another one at the moment plus considering the state that I’m in I don’t think I could look after it 

I hope you do t think my replies are all negative when I have had easy times I have had more productive times like the walking 

before withdrawal I was a second Dan at tai kwon do I used to train 4 times a week and was very fit but then tolerance hit me from venalaxafine and I couldn’t leave the house 

thanks for replying 

[ChessieCat]

There are many existing topics on SA.  Before creating a new topic please do a search to see if one already exists.

 

You post has been moved here:

 

im-just-wild-about-saffron

 

[Terry4949]

The last two weeks have been absolutely awful the depression and restlessness was so bad for 2 days I havnt got out of bed I have been living on virtually no sleep my body feels like it has been poisoned I have not even been able to hardly eat or wash so I went to A&E begging for help they gave me zoplicon to take to try to help me sleep I was given 7mg tablets so last night I split one in half as I know how sensitive I am to every med or supplement I went to bed at 10 pm and slept through until 7 pm this is the first night my body has slept more than 3 - 4 hours in anyone night in 6 years it is also the first pill I have popped in 6 years I woke this morning feeling shakey and very hot and sweaty but I was feeling like that before the zoplicon 

I was so afraid taking it last night due to the fact that everything I try like supplements make me feel so much worse but I just need to sleep as I am getting horrible cortisol mornings that just allow me to get about 2 hours sleep and I wake feeling so fatigued and restless my mind was going mad I might take one more tonight to help my brain rest but I don’t won’t to get hooked on them as I know they are addictive and need tapering the thing is am I doing the right thing I know this site doesn’t recommend any drugs it’s for coming off but after 6 years of hell would a couple of nights sleep maybe help me 

 

[almuPA]

Hello @Terry4949,

 

It is good that you have a decent night of sleep and rest. I hope that helps to make you feel a bit of relief from how you've been feeling in the last weeks. 

 

1 hour ago, Terry4949 said:

I know this site doesn’t recommend any drugs it’s for coming off but after 6 years of hell would a couple of nights sleep maybe help me 

 

I am not a mod or expert, but I think that, at the end of the day, the decision is yours to make. If taking the zoplicon helped you, none can judge you. We all know the horror of living in WD. 

I hope you can have a better day after sleeping. 

[Terry4949]

Lost everything

 

I have been so unwell for so many years been in withdrawal for over 7 years been of all meds for nearly 6 I have not really had windows just suffering I have had periods of easier times but this latest set back has been so awful so far out I can hardly function depression suicidal idealations fatigue and all the other physical symptoms but now after 30 years of marriage my wife has told me she has had enough and she can’t live we me any more 

my wife has stood by my side all these years she has been my rock but now she says she feels like she is living it with me she says it has ruined our life me being like this always depressed we have no fun our two children have left home so it just leaves me and my wife 

 

she works very hard and is a very caring women but she says my life is killing her she said she wishes she could just go to sleep and not wake I am heartbroken I feel so depressed at the moment just trying to get through the day is hard enough I don’t think I could manage with out her what else can I loose 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging with intro topic

[Terry4949]

I have taken zoplicon for the last 2 nights to try and help me get some sleep the first night I got to sleep but it didn’t feel like I had been to sleep long last night I took 3.5 mg again before bed but only slept a couple of hours then woke with complete burning all over on top of huge cortisol spikes I think that the zoplicon is to much for me and has made things worse but I need to get some sleep my body seems to be getting more and more sensitive even foods that I could eat are now causing me to react