Terry4949: withdrawal help

[Rosetta]

Awww, Beans.  That’s adorable. 
 

Yes, those cortisol spikes are horrible. They made me feel like I was poisoned.  They came back for a short while recently.  I don’t know why that happened.  I have to be very careful with what I put in my body.

 

Hang in there!

🧚🏻‍♀️Rosetta

[Terry4949]

I have been scrolling through so many posts over the last few days looking for encouragement anything to keep my head above water 

I have read success stories to give me a glimmer of hope then I went to the pages on anhendonia emotional blunting and the feelings of complete and utter emptiness as this is a huge part of me even now the depression is strong and these symptoms are really intense but I know when the depression does go I still have a feeling of emptiness no enjoyment this has been with me my entire journey even when in year 3 &4 things did ease a bit physically the overwhelming feeling of nothing was still prevalent 

then I came across a reply from one of the moderators on here ‘ onmyway ‘ who had replied to another member who had been suffering with apathy and anhendonia they had only been off meds for 4 months and was suffering her reply said that it does clear up and it could be one of the last symptoms to go but it eventually will go but could take months or years but then they went on to say if it hadn’t cleared up by 5 years then I would start to worry this has caused me now to really worry I’m 5 months short of 7 years off all meds and it’s only been getting worse I am lucky that I have never really suffer from anxiety but this has scared me to death now reading this 

[LotusRising]

On 4/6/2023 at 8:21 AM, Terry4949 said:

my deep depression seemed to have lifted and the complete feeling of emptiness seem to have eased I had 4 weeks of waking without the dread the overwhelming feeling of crying seem to have stopped and my appetite return I actually managed to do some things around the house and managed to socialise a little it was a relief just not to be in that utter despair 24/7

 

Hi @Terry4949 it looks like you had a really good window when you posted this back in April. Always reason to be hopeful that you will get more!

 

What coping skills do you use when you're feeling depressed, or empty?

[Terry4949]

8 hours ago, MedRN said:

 

Hi @Terry4949 it looks like you had a really good window when you posted this back in April. Always reason to be hopeful that you will get more!

 

What coping skills do you use when you're feeling depressed, or empty?

Thank you for your reply 

my coping skills have varied from time to time when I had the energy I use to walk a lot also I loved fishing but as time has gone on in withdrawals the feeling has wained but I have just recently purchased a new dog to force me to go out for a walk to keep me motivated 

I have a really good family around me who are supportive but still struggle to understand how this can be withdrawal after so long 

I wake every morning to the horrible cortisol effects normally about 3 am which usually leaves me feeling shakey hot and fatigued until around 9 pm then then the depression and lake of motivation kick in which makes it hard for me to really want to do anything 

I try to do physical stuff but i end up so hot and sweaty and I feel like I’m going to pass out sometimes withdrawal has made me exercise intolerance and going in the sun makes things so much worse

There are many little things I want to do around the house and in the garden but my motivation is very poor I will start to do something but my anhendonic mood takes over and I find no interest or feel any pleasure from it so I just give up 

I try to socialise as much as I can but most of the time my mind wanders to the emptiness that I’m feeling and my concentration levels are so poor I forget what people are saying even while they are saying it 

plus the physical symptoms of muscle ache constant burning of the skin and headaches are a constant daily reminder of what these drugs have done to me so it’s hard not to focus on anything other than them 

I keep a good sleep hygiene practise I shower everyday and shave look after my personal hygiene just as to not let myself go but most days it is a effort as fatigue is bad but I try to keep to a routine 

I cannot sleep in the day and I only still get on average 3-4 sleep a night this has been going on for over 7 years now and I know that doesn’t help with healing 

 

[Rosetta]

Terry, please don’t worry.  There is no particular time when you should worry.  No one knows how this journey will go for any one person.  You are going to heal.  The anhedonia was awful, awful, awful!  Yet, the fear and anxiety was worse.  Without that juxtaposition, it must be hard, not that I would wish you had anxiety, of course.  That emptiness.  It lessens.  I still have it at times.  I still have the opposite, too, sometimes.  You are someone who isn’t swinging wildly from one end to the other, right?  That slow, no windows kind of recovery?

[Terry4949]

22 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Terry, please don’t worry.  There is no particular time when you should worry.  No one knows how this journey will go for any one person.  You are going to heal.  The anhedonia was awful, awful, awful!  Yet, the fear and anxiety was worse.  Without that juxtaposition, it must be hard, not that I would wish you had anxiety, of course.  That emptiness.  It lessens.  I still have it at times.  I still have the opposite, too, sometimes.  You are someone who isn’t swinging wildly from one end to the other, right?  That slow, no windows kind of recovery?

Again thankyou for your reply 

I went to the doctors today for some blood test results as I have high ferritin had this for several years now and the lady doctor I was speaking to asked me how my mood was I told her I was currently only just being able to function if I was being honest as the depression was hanging over me so bad that I can barely manage anything the doctor asked me what medication I was taking and if I wanted to try something different 

I told her I had been off all meds for 6 1/2 years she was shocked that I was in such a depressed state that I wasn’t medicated I told her I had been on many medications and that I hit tolerance to Effexor and went into withdrawals and I was given a combo of medications after to try to elevate the withdrawal but they just made me sicker 

I told her I was hospitalised and the doctor stopped all meds and I have been in withdrawal ever since the doctor new of withdrawal and said that she knew how difficult some people have coming off there drugs and for some it can take a long time but she said she had never experienced any one being so unwell from it so far out 

she said she had a lady that really struggle for two years but eventually she got better 

the doctor then asked me how long am I going to hang on to the hope of recovery and maybe the depression will always now be part of my life because of the 30 years I was medicated 

you say that you think I’m not one of those that swing from one end to the other but I believe I am I have had depression since I was c/t of the meds but it goes from liveable to soul crushing and it comes in waves on average every 3-4 months and I go from being functional to be house and bed bound 

I have never had a window of normalcy but have had periods where symptoms have been easier to manage so I have lived in the wave as such 

I hope you are seeing more windows and things are improving for you 

thanks for listening 

take care 

[Terry4949]

So 3 weeks ago I still had awful symptoms of withdrawal but not at the levels I have had in the first 3 years and I have had my share of depression spells some really bad to the point of I don’t know if I’m going to survive this and many bouts of anhendonia that have come and gone but over the last 3 weeks I have hit a awful spell of depression again literally overnight I went from functioning as in being able to look after myself get out of the house as is a must as I have a new dog to the overwhelming feeling of emptiness 

it’s more than the depression it’s worse than anhendonia I can feel the need to cry but can’t but I feel so empty inside can’t watch the tv have zero interest in anything just no motivation to do anything I feel no pleasure just complete sadness to the fact I can’t enjoy anything my days are so long with this awful feeling of nothing 

I get up at the same time eat breakfast all very healthy it takes me a hour before I can function then I go out for a walk with the dog for a hour I do this twice a day I then come home try to do small tasks even try some light exercises I do little jobs for a few minutes but have a overwhelming feeling of nothingness so I give up I can’t feel any reward it is properly the worst thing ever for me I would take the physical symptoms any day over this feeling 

in the 61/2 years I have been off all meds I have suffered so much but I have never had this feeling before I would prefer the anhendonia I have read the pages on emotional blunting several times on this forum but this is so inhuman would this be a wave after so long out 

 

[Terry4949]

Adding to my post earlier can a change in sleep pattern alter a wave I have been thinking about the same time 3 weeks ago I started to sleep longer my average sleep pattern for the last 6 plus years has been I fall asleep about 9.30 pm as that is when I’m usually at my sleepiest and the would sleep for 3 hours sometimes broken sleep I could wake after a hour but my average sleep time was 3-4 hours on a good night 

then about 3 weeks ago I would fall a sleep about 9 pm and wake roughly between 3-4 am so my sleep has jumped to nearly 7 hours I have never had this in 6 or more year the sleep is very deep to the fact that when I wake it seems like I have only been a sleep for 10 minutes it goes so quick I still wake to a cortisol spike but I don’t have the horrible bed soaking sweats anymore 

At the same time this is when the horrible deep depression and feelings of emptiness hit is it possible that my sleep pattern has changed my mood for the worse it’s the mood that causes me so much grief as motivation is so difficult even though I am push through as much as I can 2 walks a day for a hour plus trying to occupy my mind but I feel nothing like I’m empty inside yet I feel the need to cry constantly so very strange 

I look at my physical symptoms and realise that some things have eased to a manageable level over the last 6 plus so years like 

tinnitus has stopped the burning skin has eased even though feet are still painful 

the night time sweats have stop but cortisol spikes are still there but not as bad and akathisia has lessened to a very low grade nervousness in my legs so little things have improved it’s just my awful mood depression really sucks 

[Altostrata]

12 hours ago, Terry4949 said:

I look at my physical symptoms and realise that some things have eased to a manageable level over the last 6 plus so years like 

tinnitus has stopped the burning skin has eased even though feet are still painful 

the night time sweats have stop but cortisol spikes are still there but not as bad and akathisia has lessened to a very low grade nervousness in my legs so little things have improved it’s just my awful mood depression really sucks 

 

Improvement! A new dog and better sleep! That's a change for the better. Happy to hear it.

[Onmyway]

@Terry4949

your body is working towards healing! The fact that you are able to get more sleep is great because that impacts the healing time - more sleep speeds it up. 

Depression is tough and crying can help relieve things.

CBT really helps depression
OMW

 

 

[Terry4949]

3 hours ago, Onmyway said:

@Terry4949

your body is working towards healing! The fact that you are able to get more sleep is great because that impacts the healing time - more sleep speeds it up. 

Depression is tough and crying can help relieve things.

CBT really helps depression
OMW

 

 

Thank you for your reply I wish I could cry I have that feeling of wanting to but I am unable my sleep is definitely longer but I still feel like I havnt had any 6-7 hours go by in what seems like 10 minutes plus I have been waking the last 3 months to what seems like the flu symptoms but without the cold I have checked for covid but negative I have had long term sinusitis and tried everything for relief but have found nothing I’m wondering if some of the symptoms are from inflammation as I have horrible post nasal drip with constant mucus at the back of my throat plus a very dry cough maybe this is not helping and causing me fatigue 

[Onmyway]

Hi @Terry4949, 

you may have allergies. Does your cough get worse inside than it is outside? If your cough gets worse inside then you may have allergies to mold or dust mites. You can get both of those checked at your surgery. 

 

The UK is notorious for having  mold in houses (damp as they call it). Most UK people are so used to this they do not smell it.  

 

One thing that helps with this is if you get yourself a dehumidified - mold and dust mites can't grow in low humidity. You would need something with a very high humidity clearing capacity - most of these machines would cost money but  they may be worth it. (Something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dehumidifier-Function-Dehumidification-Purification-Transparent/dp/B09Q24NSNK?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1 - I have no idea if the brand is good, just that the size should be at least 10L a day depending on the size of your home, better if it is 20L/day). You would need to keep the humidity level in your home between 40-50%. I can help with more tips on that if you want to check this. 

 

If you have had post-nasal drip for 3 months or more, my money is on allergies and those are inflammation and can cause depressed mood and low energy. Mold is often invisible (it's in the air and right now is high season for it in the Northern Hemisphere). Dust mites are definitely invisible. Both of these you can remedy even if you can't really eliminate - and you can lower symptoms without drugs. 

 

Let me know if you want more help on this. 
OMW

[Terry4949]

6 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Hi @Terry4949, 

you may have allergies. Does your cough get worse inside than it is outside? If your cough gets worse inside then you may have allergies to mold or dust mites. You can get both of those checked at your surgery. 

 

The UK is notorious for having  mold in houses (damp as they call it). Most UK people are so used to this they do not smell it.  

 

One thing that helps with this is if you get yourself a dehumidified - mold and dust mites can't grow in low humidity. You would need something with a very high humidity clearing capacity - most of these machines would cost money but  they may be worth it. (Something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dehumidifier-Function-Dehumidification-Purification-Transparent/dp/B09Q24NSNK?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1 - I have no idea if the brand is good, just that the size should be at least 10L a day depending on the size of your home, better if it is 20L/day). You would need to keep the humidity level in your home between 40-50%. I can help with more tips on that if you want to check this. 

 

If you have had post-nasal drip for 3 months or more, my money is on allergies and those are inflammation and can cause depressed mood and low energy. Mold is often invisible (it's in the air and right now is high season for it in the Northern Hemisphere). Dust mites are definitely invisible. Both of these you can remedy even if you can't really eliminate - and you can lower symptoms without drugs. 

 

Let me know if you want more help on this. 
OMW

Thank you so much for all the information I have had symptoms similar to rhinitis for a long time early in the year I went to ENT department at the hospital and they used a camera and said that my nasal passage was actually clear I used nasal sprays and they gave me steroids which I believe put me in a bad wave but I found no relief 

I have constant mucus at the back of my throat and I have a dry cough which have been going on for a while plus I have a ache  just below my rib cage so I wonder if it’s something coming up but it could be possible allergies 

I live in the uk and to be honest I don’t think I have come in contact with any mold there is none in my house that I know 

I have 3 dehumidifiers in my house I’m not sure wether they are making a difference 

I think that after taking mirtazapine I never had any allergies but after this med it through all my symptoms haywire possible to do with histamine 

to be honest my cough is the same in or outside of the house it’s just constant and dry 

I will look up your suggestions for the dehumidifiers and look more closely at what they suggest 

thank you for your reply 

[Onmyway]

Hi @Terry4949

when you run those dehumidifiers, what is the level of humidity in your house? It should be around 40%. Mold is literally everywhere especially in the fall. That earthy smell when the leaves are rotting, that is mold. Just checked and the UK humidity level in September is close to 80% - molds need above 50%.  Any humid climate is a breeding ground for mold. You could be allergic to dust mites as well. I think you need to get your GP to give you allergy tests. They can be done in office or he can refer you. They are very easy - take about 30 min. If the GP won't do them you may be able to get them for a fee privately. If you have been having issues with nasal stuff and coughing, this would be my first test. Normally I would suggest antihistamines as a trial but they can interfere with withdrawal (cetrizine is the least offensive but even that can cross the blood brain barrier). 

 

Allergies can cause depression. This may be worth the investment. 

OMW

[Terry4949]

5 hours ago, Onmyway said:

Hi @Terry4949

when you run those dehumidifiers, what is the level of humidity in your house? It should be around 40%. Mold is literally everywhere especially in the fall. That earthy smell when the leaves are rotting, that is mold. Just checked and the UK humidity level in September is close to 80% - molds need above 50%.  Any humid climate is a breeding ground for mold. You could be allergic to dust mites as well. I think you need to get your GP to give you allergy tests. They can be done in office or he can refer you. They are very easy - take about 30 min. If the GP won't do them you may be able to get them for a fee privately. If you have been having issues with nasal stuff and coughing, this would be my first test. Normally I would suggest antihistamines as a trial but they can interfere with withdrawal (cetrizine is the least offensive but even that can cross the blood brain barrier). 

 

Allergies can cause depression. This may be worth the investment. 

OMW

Thank you again for your reply I am going to phone the doctor today to see what they suggest and ask for a allergy test I am very wary of taking a antihistamine as I did try a Claritin before bed a few months ago and I woke to more intense physical feelings as I believe the mirtazapine screwed up my histamine receptors big time so I’m very wary of antihistamines 

another thing that has been mentioned to me is silent gerd again I need to check with a doctor 

the physical symptoms of the cough mucus and pain jus below my rib cage are definitely making me feel more depressed as they are constant 24/7 and have been going on for such a long time they have destroyed my quality of life so I need to get to the bottom of it I think sometimes we list everything as withdrawal and tend to over look that other health problems do happen 

[Terry4949]

I have to have a endoscopy next week and need to be sedated as they tried with out sedation and I have a severe gag reflex plus I panicked so badly and got so stressed out and then horrendous anxiety hit that the hospital have rescheduled it for next week 

has anyone had this procedure under sedation I’m so worried that it will cause me so much more harm I assume they use propophol to put you to sleep would this cause me to have worse symptoms I don’t know what other options there are but I’m scared to death 

just wondering if others have had to go through this procedure and how they faired 

[Altostrata]

They usually do endoscopy under sedation. Propofol carries probably least risk. If you need this diagnostic procedure, you will need to accept the drug risk.

[Terry4949]

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

They usually do endoscopy under sedation. Propofol carries probably least risk. If you need this diagnostic procedure, you will need to accept the drug risk.

Thank you for your reply unfortunately I have to have the endoscope so will have to have the propofol and just pray that it doesn’t do me anymore harm but I shall inform the hospital of my harm from antidepressants 

[Onmyway]

1 hour ago, Terry4949 said:

Thank you for your reply unfortunately I have to have the endoscope so will have to have the propofol and just pray that it doesn’t do me anymore harm but I shall inform the hospital of my harm from antidepressants 

@Terry4949 we are all different but I had propofol twice during withdrawal and had no issues and no lasting effects. 

[littlebird]

I've had endoscopies without long-term effects from the sedation, though I'm not sure what sedation was used. Take care of yourself and plan lots of rest and recovery time afterwards! 

[wantrelief]

@Terry4949: I had surgery with propofol whilst experiencing withdrawal symptoms and had no adverse effects from it. I hope your procedure goes well.

[joy2730]

On 9/24/2023 at 6:40 AM, Terry4949 said:

Thank you for your reply I wish I could cry I have that feeling of wanting to but I am unable my sleep is definitely longer but I still feel like I havnt had any 6-7 hours go by in what seems like 10 minutes plus I have been waking the last 3 months to what seems like the flu symptoms but without the cold I have checked for covid but negative I have had long term sinusitis and tried everything for relief but have found nothing I’m wondering if some of the symptoms are from inflammation as I have horrible post nasal drip with constant mucus at the back of my throat plus a very dry cough maybe this is not helping and causing me fatigue 

 

[joy2730]

Try not to overthink the procedure - have you heard of nacrobo the opposite to placebo - which is when you can experience symptoms that are very negative by thinking them

[Terry4949]

Thank you all for your reply’s  I have contacted the hospital and have been told that they use lidocaine to spray and numb the throat then use midazolam as they sedative it doesn’t knock you out apparently it just calms you down and makes you relaxed so they don’t use propofol I havnt heard of midazolam does anyone no anything about this I don’t really want to google in case I read horror stories just hoping it’s safe 

thank you 

[Altostrata]

@Terry4949 tell them you may be hypersensitive to sedatives. Anesthesiologists understand this. Be realistic, you'll have to accept that they will use some kind of anesthetic or sedative for the procedure, and it may be important to resolving some of your health issues.

[Onmyway]

Midazolam is a benzo and will keep you awake for the procedure, which they probably need, it will just prevent you from forming memories. 

[Terry4949]

8 hours ago, Altostrata said:

@Terry4949 tell them you may be hypersensitive to sedatives. Anesthesiologists understand this. Be realistic, you'll have to accept that they will use some kind of anesthetic or sedative for the procedure, and it may be important to resolving some of your health issues.

Thank you Alto I think because of the harm that meds have done to me and many others we become very wary of everything we put in our body’s the thought of having the endoscopy has made me anxious but I know I have to have it 

I will point out that I am very sensitive to meds and I just have to hope that things work out ok if midazolam is a benzo maybe a one of treatment maybe not to bad as I havnt really been harmed by benzos it’s more the lidocaine I worry about as I had a set back from a steroid nasal spray but like I say I need to have it done so will have to go with the flow 

thank you for your reply 

 

[Onmyway]

@Terry4949 lidocaine is generally harmless in my understanding, it is not like steroids. And it will probably be applied as a spray to your trachea and then on the tip of the endoscopy tube. I've had lidocaine and novocaine injections during dental work in WD without any issues. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by Onmyway

[Terry4949]

18 hours ago, Onmyway said:

@Terry4949 lidocaine is generally harmless in my understanding, it is not like steroids. And it will probably be applied as a spray to your trachea and then on the tip of the endoscopy tube. I've had lidocaine and novocaine injections during dental work in WD without any issues. 

Thank you for your reassurance it means a lot I think after being kindled 7 years ago I just worry so much about anything that goes in my body 

[Onmyway]

I absolutely understand @Terry4949, you've had a very hard time and are right to be scared of any new drugs. I hope the test goes well and it helps with your recovery. 

OMW

[Terry4949]

Just a update on my endoscope I had the lidocaine spray and the sedation and all went well no adverse effects it was pretty painless and over quickly so I was really happy with that

they found that I have a Barrett’s oesophogus which they said looked abnormal so they took 2 biopsies so it’s a good job I went ahead and had it 

the symptoms they said that come with it I actually don’t have and they said that 50% of people that have it have no symptoms but they did say that the mucus in my throat and constant cough could be from the oesophogus 

I have to wait on the doctor now but they say they need to treat it as it can become cancerous 

the only trouble I have now is that they suggest a ppl either omeprazol or famotidine and I’m worried about starting these as I know they deplete B12 and come with a lot of complications 

[Altostrata]

9 hours ago, Terry4949 said:

I’m worried about starting these as I know they deplete B12 and come with a lot of complications 

 

Please discuss your worries with your doctors.

[Terry4949]

I’m coming here hoping someone will give me valuable advice I know this is not a site for suggestion medications or giving out medical advice but I have put my back out severely just by pulling them up 😔 I have been house bound for a week with the worst spasm pains every 10 seconds it’s unbearable I have been screaming in agony even to just move 

last night I went the hospital they prescribed me diazapam 5 mg and co- codomol 60 mg for two weeks to reduce the spasms and pain at this point to be honest I would drink a bottle of morphine if I thought it would give some relief 

my question is I have been med free for nearly 7 years for those members that have used these medications would it be safe for me to take very short term to relieve the severe pain or do I run the risk of addiction and withdrawal I have not had co -codomol before and only a handful of benzos on odd days but that was 7 years ago when I was kindled 

as I stated I know this isn’t a medical advice site I would just like to know if anyone has been through similar the pain is unbearable day and night but I don’t want to solve one problem and end up with another 

I do have a appointment with a osteopath today to see if she can help as I can hardly walk with so much pain 

thank you 

[getofflex]

According to this article, co-codamol comes with a risk of addiction if you take it for more than 3 days.  It contains an opioid called Codeine.  

 

 https://patient.info/medicine/co-codamol-for-pain-relief-codipar-kapake-panadol-ultra-paracodol-solpadol-solpadeine-max-tylex-zapain

 

Diazepam, a benzodiazepine, also comes with a risk of addiction and/or dependence, I believe within 2-3 weeks, but I'm not sure.  

 

Hopefully, this will help you make a more informed choice. 

 

You can go to www.drugs.com and research drugs there.  

[Terry4949]

3 hours ago, getofflex said:

According to this article, co-codamol comes with a risk of addiction if you take it for more than 3 days.  It contains an opioid called Codeine.  

 

 https://patient.info/medicine/co-codamol-for-pain-relief-codipar-kapake-panadol-ultra-paracodol-solpadol-solpadeine-max-tylex-zapain

 

Diazepam, a benzodiazepine, also comes with a risk of addiction and/or dependence, I believe within 2-3 weeks, but I'm not sure.  

 

Hopefully, this will help you make a more informed choice. 

 

You can go to www.drugs.com and research drugs there.  

Thank you for your reply blimey I didn’t realise that co-codamol can cause addiction after 3 days that’s such a real short time I think I will look for alternatives to treat the pain 

they said that the diazapam was the best thing to stop the spasms 

[Onmyway]

@Terry4949,

Are you taking magnesium? It's also supposed to help with muscles spams and most people are deficient. 

 

Try magnesium citrate or magnesium glycinate. Avoid magnesium oxide (can cause loose stools).