Terry4949 Posted November 4, 2022 Author Share Posted November 4, 2022 I went to see a psychiatrist today to try and get some help I wasn’t offered antidepressants and even if I was I wouldn’t take them I just needed to see if I could get some support with this severe crippling depression as I have been consumed with it for two weeks now probably the worst i have ever endured the psychiatrist was talking to me and asked me if I had ever heard of Tardive dysphoria which he explained is a depression from long term drug use considering I have been on meds for over 25 years to be honest I have never heard of this does this mean even now after being of meds for nearly 6 years this is permanent I have always had a low grade depression with severe bouts from time to time can this tardive dysphoria be reversed has anyone else had this the very thought of me living with this depression of this magnitude is scaring me to death or is this still part of withdrawal 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted November 4, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 4, 2022 I suggest that you do a search of the site yourself for the term "tardive dysphoria". Put the term in inverted commas on the main page of the site, ie not on one of the forum pages, so that it will search the whole of SA. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted November 4, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 4, 2022 Dear @Terry4949 I am so sorry you are going through such a difficult time right now. I can imagine how it will be scary if you had achieved some level of relief for your withdrawal symptoms only to be slammed with severe depression right now. I think this sudden (most likely temporary) worsening seems to be exacerbated by your expectations that this will be permanent. It won't. There is absolutely no evidence that it will be permanent. I know you are looking for answers but what makes you think that the people who got you into this mess and haven't been able to help you since then are going to have answers for you now? The term 'tardive dysphoria' is literally psych speak for - 'distress after stopping drugs'. It is a label with no informative value. He's translated your distress into medicalese and got your money with 0 useful information or help. So I suggest you ignore that label and get on with your healing. You have had a long history of drug use and most importantly changes which makes your case particularly difficult. You also came off of your drugs pretty much cold turkey. Your body is working hard to fix this. It found some sense of balance (homeostasis) but needs to do some more repair work now. Please please please let it. YOur job right now is to provide as much calm to the system as possible - don't worry about the future for now - worrying will not help - give yourself a few months after which you can start worrying if you want to. Don't worry about your marriage, leave that for after the next 3 months as well. Do only the things that give you some semblance of pleasure or satisfaction right now - if nothing allows you to do that, then do things that used to give you pleasure. Do gentle exercise - if it's to get to the garden for 10 min and amble around so be it. Eat what you can (I ate almost exclusively ginger cookies and mint tea for 4 months because of nausea), sleep as much as you can and know that it is ok to sleep less than 8 hrs for very extended periods of time. It's not healthy in the long run but we're working on right now, not the long run. Nothing bad will come of it in the next months or even a couple of years (I've been sleeping less than 6hrs a night for almost 4 years now - I'm fine). THis absolutely sucks, nobody can claim otherwise. It is not fair. It is awful and frustrating and infuriating. But IT IS. It has happened. The only thing that will make it better is time and calm. Catastrophizing and predictions of how it might be forever will not help and might even slow you. You now need to start using your non-drug techniques to help you get through this rough patch. I suggest CBT - a lot of your distress is compounded by the thought patterns that you exhibit. You can work on that. Can you get a CBT therapist? You might be able to find cheaper online ones (look even in the UK). You can try a book called - "The Feeling Good Handbook" and work your way through it. These skills are going to help you even in the future - **** happens even outside of withdrawal and learning these skills will help you deal with life's stresses. TO recap: what is happening to you is a temporary setback in recovery from withdrawal. It's been 6 years and seems like it "shouldn't" happen but given your history it's not that surprising. You are making it worse by constantly focusing on the negative and catastrophizing and fortune-telling (CBT terms). You need to learn skills to deal with that. Look up thought distortions, CBT. get a therapist if you can. The Feeling Good Book by David Burns can be incredibly helpful if you don't have a therapist. There is nothing wrong with your brain or yourself. You have dealt with issue your whole life likely because of a trauma history, NOT because something is wrong with you and "this is how it will always be". Once you're done with withdrawal you can do therapy to figure out what it was and deal with these issues. Right now you can't do much about the body dealing with withdrawal (it will figure itself out) but you have a lot of power over your attitude towards it. Acceptance, CBT therapy, not catastrophizing WILL help. It's in your hands. We can't do the latter part for you. Life is tough right now but you are tougher. You will get through this. You have come this far, this is the final stretch. This is temporary. You will prevail. I have absolutely no doubt in that. You just have to want it badly enough and do what needs to be done. You got this! OMW 4 "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
Terry4949 Posted November 5, 2022 Author Share Posted November 5, 2022 8 hours ago, Onmyway said: Dear @Terry4949 I am so sorry you are going through such a difficult time right now. I can imagine how it will be scary if you had achieved some level of relief for your withdrawal symptoms only to be slammed with severe depression right now. I think this sudden (most likely temporary) worsening seems to be exacerbated by your expectations that this will be permanent. It won't. There is absolutely no evidence that it will be permanent. I know you are looking for answers but what makes you think that the people who got you into this mess and haven't been able to help you since then are going to have answers for you now? The term 'tardive dysphoria' is literally psych speak for - 'distress after stopping drugs'. It is a label with no informative value. He's translated your distress into medicalese and got your money with 0 useful information or help. So I suggest you ignore that label and get on with your healing. You have had a long history of drug use and most importantly changes which makes your case particularly difficult. You also came off of your drugs pretty much cold turkey. Your body is working hard to fix this. It found some sense of balance (homeostasis) but needs to do some more repair work now. Please please please let it. YOur job right now is to provide as much calm to the system as possible - don't worry about the future for now - worrying will not help - give yourself a few months after which you can start worrying if you want to. Don't worry about your marriage, leave that for after the next 3 months as well. Do only the things that give you some semblance of pleasure or satisfaction right now - if nothing allows you to do that, then do things that used to give you pleasure. Do gentle exercise - if it's to get to the garden for 10 min and amble around so be it. Eat what you can (I ate almost exclusively ginger cookies and mint tea for 4 months because of nausea), sleep as much as you can and know that it is ok to sleep less than 8 hrs for very extended periods of time. It's not healthy in the long run but we're working on right now, not the long run. Nothing bad will come of it in the next months or even a couple of years (I've been sleeping less than 6hrs a night for almost 4 years now - I'm fine). THis absolutely sucks, nobody can claim otherwise. It is not fair. It is awful and frustrating and infuriating. But IT IS. It has happened. The only thing that will make it better is time and calm. Catastrophizing and predictions of how it might be forever will not help and might even slow you. You now need to start using your non-drug techniques to help you get through this rough patch. I suggest CBT - a lot of your distress is compounded by the thought patterns that you exhibit. You can work on that. Can you get a CBT therapist? You might be able to find cheaper online ones (look even in the UK). You can try a book called - "The Feeling Good Handbook" and work your way through it. These skills are going to help you even in the future - **** happens even outside of withdrawal and learning these skills will help you deal with life's stresses. TO recap: what is happening to you is a temporary setback in recovery from withdrawal. It's been 6 years and seems like it "shouldn't" happen but given your history it's not that surprising. You are making it worse by constantly focusing on the negative and catastrophizing and fortune-telling (CBT terms). You need to learn skills to deal with that. Look up thought distortions, CBT. get a therapist if you can. The Feeling Good Book by David Burns can be incredibly helpful if you don't have a therapist. There is nothing wrong with your brain or yourself. You have dealt with issue your whole life likely because of a trauma history, NOT because something is wrong with you and "this is how it will always be". Once you're done with withdrawal you can do therapy to figure out what it was and deal with these issues. Right now you can't do much about the body dealing with withdrawal (it will figure itself out) but you have a lot of power over your attitude towards it. Acceptance, CBT therapy, not catastrophizing WILL help. It's in your hands. We can't do the latter part for you. Life is tough right now but you are tougher. You will get through this. You have come this far, this is the final stretch. This is temporary. You will prevail. I have absolutely no doubt in that. You just have to want it badly enough and do what needs to be done. You got this! OMW Thank you for you well informed post i understand what you say about the negative thought pattern it does consume me and I know that I need to break this cycle I think due to the large physical feelings the all over burning skin does tends to keep me in it as I am constantly reminded of it the symptom creates negative thoughts at the moment I struggle to eat move and even do the basics my family have all but given up on me due to the fact that they think I need pills you no the story I have been home bound for the last 3 weeks I do not get payed I worry about how I will afford to cope over the next few months I know when we are in the deep throws of depression everything looks 10 x worse and the overwhelming feelings of apathy make the days long I think part of my healing has been held back by the apathy ever since I was c/t of my meds 6 years ago apathy has always dragged along with it I find no pleasure or feel anything to anything I use to love life I was passionate about fishing it was my hobby but since the meds were stopped I have felt empty and I subconsciously no that I loath for that feeling to return my sleep I suppose has never been great I am lucky I can fall a sleep easy and I sleep for 3-4 hours without waking but it never feels like I have slept I am ok with that I know people who are well and only sleep 4-5 hours and are functional but I think the high cortisol mornings are what keep me in this high perpetual state the flood that goes through my body each morning leaves me shaking and I can taste it I feel like I’m drunk this remains with me through most of the day again adding to the negative thought pattern I know I need to try and accept it as bad as it feels but it can be very hard I hope you are right about this being my final stretch maybe recovery is just round the corner I can remember when I hit the two year mark the physical stuff far outweighed the mental confusion I said to my self hopefully another year and I will see improvements I read so many success stories and I would see many people would see healing at 3-4 years which gave me so much encouragement to keep going even though it was tough but now I am coming up to 6 years free and I’m now in the worse shape ever it’s so hard to convince myself that I will get better my mind tells me that I am going to be the one that doesn’t heal again I know this is the negativity talking and I need to brake the cycle but after 6 years I think it is hardwired in to my brain after I took my last medication I was kindled part of the reason doctors pulled all medication from me c/t I look back and no that my body and brain have been on meds for over 25 years so 6 years off them is really nothing in time frame and I wonder how many changes have been done to my brain by vast amounts of different drugs I do believe in neuroplasticity and I believe that brain will always find away back but I’m not so sure about if you have been kindled this also keeps me in a very negative loop i think I believe that kindling can’t be reversed as i have seen many people kindled and are still really struggling this is more negativity I know which doesn’t help I thank you from the bottom of my heart reaching out to me and taking time to write your post to me at the moment I feel I am all alone with this battle it is very hard when no one around you understands what you are going through they all think I am lazy and don’t won’t to get better they all say that I need medication because it helped me before they say I am sick as I am so thin from not eating and physically look unwell they say I should look in a mirror to see what I am doing to myself they say things to me like I choose to live like this because they believe I actually want to be like this they are so far from the truth I think because I use to be the life of the party sort of guy fun loving caring out going always there to help out others in fact people use to say I had a heart of gold now I feel almost abandoned by those that I thought truly loved me sorry for the long post 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted November 5, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 5, 2022 @Terry4949 What is going well in your life? What are you grateful for? What symptoms have gone away for you? What non-drug techniques are you using to manage your symptoms? What things are you doing against cortisol (the thread on cortisol has some very effective tips)? How you feel is not hardwired in your life, you can rewire your brain but you need to focus on the things that are going well. You need to focus on your strengths rather than how horrible things are or what your family or others are doing to you. Let's make a deal. In your next post, for every negative thing you post (symptom, how horrible people around you are etc.), you need to post at least a few positive things you did or tried to do to deal with your symptom. If you post that it didn't work (negative), you then need to post something else you tried (positive). OMW PS. Contrary to what many depressed people magically believe (I've been there) - if you do focus on the positive you are not jinxing it and if you focus on the possible negative future you're not preempting it, you're likely to make her worse. 1 "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted November 5, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 5, 2022 https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/cbt-self-help-course-step-1/ At the bottom of the page there is a link to Step 2. There are 7 steps altogether. There are videos and other links on the pages. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Mentor RachelSusan Posted November 5, 2022 Mentor Share Posted November 5, 2022 (edited) @Terry4949 I just read two posts on your thread that I think can really help me as well. The first was from @Onmyway. They posted two sets of comments which really resonated with me even though the comments were written with you in mind. The second post was a link that Chessiecat provided. I am not tagging Chessie because in their signature they said please don't tag them. Anyway back to the link, once I got to that page there was a workbook that I downloaded for myself. I plan to start reading it today and I will be doing a few pages each day. If it works for me I will continue on, if it doesn't work well nothing lost and I will stop reading. If you decide that these pages might have something to offer you I wanted you to know about my attempts as well. If you want to talk about any of it I always enjoy having a buddy to kick things back and forth with. If it is not for you, no pressure. Not everything is helpful for all people. Sending all my support your way. Edited November 5, 2022 by RachelSusan typo - I can't spell worth a darn. 2 I am not a health professional in any way. I do not give medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a professional medical practitioner. NEW INFORMATION FOR GABAPENTIN TAPER April 29, 2022 900 mg to 800 mg (11%), May 29, 2022 800 to 700 mg (12.5%), June 20, 2022 700 to 650mg (8%), July 20, 2022 650 to 575 (12%), August 20, 575 to 500 (13%), Sept 20, 2020 500 to 475mg (5%) Nov 7, 2022 475 to 425 (11%), Nov 21, 2022 500mg Medications: Gabapentin, Prednisone 1.5mg a day, Cortisol Inhaler daily. HISTORY FOR ZOLOFT TAPER Feb. 2016 to June 2016 - Was on 150mg Zoloft. Put on Gabapentin at 900mg a day in 2016 due to antidepressant withdrawal. Quit Zoloft (Sertraline) June 2016, reinstated 50mg of Zoloft July 2016. From July 2016 to October 2016 went from 50 mg down 2.3 mg. I up-dosed in November 2016 to 12.5 mg. Held there until January 2017 when I started a much slower taper. STARTING SENSIBLE ZOLOFT TAPERING USING GUIDELINES FROM THIS SITE Dec. 10 2016 - switched to Liquid Zoloft (Sertraline) @ 12.5 mg. Jan. 4, 2020 1.875 mg (6.3%). Jan. 25, 2020 1.75 mg. Feb. 29, 2020 1.625mg (7.10%). Apr. 4, 2020 1.5 mg. May 9, 2020 1.375 mg. June 6, 2020 1.25 mg. (9.10%). July 4, 2020 1.125 mg. (10%). August 15, 2020 1.0 mg. Oct 24, 2020 .875 mg. Nov. 28, 2020 .75mg. Jan 16, 2021 .685mg (8.7%). Feb 13, 2021 .62mg. March 12, 2021 .56mg. May 1, 2021 .375mg. May 29, 2021 .25mg. June 26, 2021 .0125mg. July 25, 2021 .065mg. August 22, 2021 .048mg. October 2, 2021 .043mg. October 10, 2021 .038mg. October 23, 2021 .035mg. October 30, 2021 .032mg. Nov. 13, 2021 .030 mg. Dec 4, 2021 .0285 mg. Dec 11, 2021 .0265 mg. Dec 18, 2021 .0246 mg. Dec 25, 2021 .023mg. Jan 1, 2022. 0 mg. OFF COMPLETELY Link to comment
Terry4949 Posted November 5, 2022 Author Share Posted November 5, 2022 10 hours ago, Onmyway said: @Terry4949 What is going well in your life? What are you grateful for? What symptoms have gone away for you? What non-drug techniques are you using to manage your symptoms? What things are you doing against cortisol (the thread on cortisol has some very effective tips)? How you feel is not hardwired in your life, you can rewire your brain but you need to focus on the things that are going well. You need to focus on your strengths rather than how horrible things are or what your family or others are doing to you. Let's make a deal. In your next post, for every negative thing you post (symptom, how horrible people around you are etc.), you need to post at least a few positive things you did or tried to do to deal with your symptom. If you post that it didn't work (negative), you then need to post something else you tried (positive). OMW PS. Contrary to what many depressed people magically believe (I've been there) - if you do focus on the positive you are not jinxing it and if you focus on the possible negative future you're not preempting it, you're likely to make her worse. Thank you again onmyway for your reply to be honest not a lot is going on in my life at the moment only just trying to survive for what I am grateful for is my two children who I am extremely proud off I have a son ad a daughter ages 25 and 26 my son is in the army and I am so proud of him he has traveled the world with the army and been in combat overseas my daughter is a manager of a care home for people with disabilities my life is a simple one really I have never asked for much I just like to see people happy and enjoying themselves I don’t have any debts or anything hanging over me in general my family are good I care for my 81 year old dad which I find when I’m like this very hard I have worked since the day I left school paid my bills and provided for my family so up until withdrawals it was a good life The cortisol mornings which I believe are the reason for my severe downward spiral are being managed as such I turn off all electricals about 2 hours before bed I read a little shower or bath before bed I go to bed at 10pm every night on the dot without fail my room is cool no light what so ever and I normal go to sleep with in minutes I can wake after a hour but most nights I get about 3 then wake and a huge dump of cortisol surges through me my body just heats up I then lay in bed hope it to go back to sleep but the surges just keep coming I don’t have any anxiety but just feel so fatigued I have tried a few supplements to help magnesium fish oil and aspirin even tried seriphos but everything ramps up my physical symptoms i even tried vitamin c and it was awful made things 10x worse Today I got up and had to go to my dads to take him some shopping I felt dreadful I felt lost consumed by depression very uncomfortable symptoms but I made myself go 1 hour later I got back home feeling of overwhelming depressed and unwell so I put my walking shoes on and went for a 45 minute walk across the fields where I live alone arriving home I felt exhausted soaked in sweat so I went in and sat for 1/2 until I felt more easier then I made myself eat I look out of the window it is raining here in the uk and a very dull day which doesn’t help I had a terrible feeling of apathy mixed with depression that just wanted me to cry and curl in a ball so I put my shoes on and went out to my shed and started to rearrange it I tidy it up moved stuff threw some stuff away even though I hated every minute of it I pushed through it I was actually crying at one stage the thinking of how the hell did I ever get into this position but I made myself carry on and try to change my mind set from a negative to a positive by telling myself what I was doing was a positive I then went for some lunch and read for a few hours then at about 4.30 pm I had a massive wave of overwhelming depression with the horrible suicidal thoughts more of I wish I could end all this rather than making a plan sort of thought in the first two years of withdrawal suicidal thoughts never left me they were constant for two years but they eventually stopped but have returned now since the cortisol spikes started again so I made myself go upstairs and try and tidy a draw up that I have been meaning to do to try and distract myself from how I was feeling but it was very hard The thing is now here in the uk the clocks have gone back which means it’s dark at 4.30 it’s cold and miserable so the nights can be long it’s funny though the last hour of the evening seems the only time I feel calm maybe it’s because I know it’s nearly time to go to bed even if it’s only for a few hours sleep 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment
Terry4949 Posted November 5, 2022 Author Share Posted November 5, 2022 1 hour ago, RachelSusan said: @Terry4949 I just read two posts on your thread that I think can really help me as well. The first was from @Onmyway. They posted two sets of comments which really resonated with me even though the comments were written with you in mind. The second post was a link that Chessiecat provided. I am not tagging Chessie because in their signature they said please don't tag them. Anyway back to the link, once I got to that page there was a workbook that I downloaded for myself. I plan to start reading it today and I will be doing a few pages each day. If it works for me I will continue on, if it doesn't work well nothing lost and I will stop reading. If you decide that these pages might have something to offer you I wanted you to know about my attempts as well. If you want to talk about any of it I always enjoy having a buddy to kick things back and forth with. If it is not for you, no pressure. Not everything is helpful for all people. Sending all my support your way. Hi thank you for your reply I will look at what chessiecat has put up and see what it requires unfortunately I’m not very good with computers and like so I don’t know how to down load it so I will have to read it from the original page so it would be nice to discuss what or if anything does help I thank you for your support 1 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted November 5, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Terry4949 said: Thank you again onmyway for your reply to be honest not a lot is going on in my life at the moment only just trying to survive for what I am grateful for is my two children who I am extremely proud off I have a son ad a daughter ages 25 and 26 my son is in the army and I am so proud of him he has traveled the world with the army and been in combat overseas my daughter is a manager of a care home for people with disabilities my life is a simple one really I have never asked for much I just like to see people happy and enjoying themselves I don’t have any debts or anything hanging over me in general my family are good I care for my 81 year old dad which I find when I’m like this very hard I have worked since the day I left school paid my bills and provided for my family so up until withdrawals it was a good life The cortisol mornings which I believe are the reason for my severe downward spiral are being managed as such I turn off all electricals about 2 hours before bed I read a little shower or bath before bed I go to bed at 10pm every night on the dot without fail my room is cool no light what so ever and I normal go to sleep with in minutes I can wake after a hour but most nights I get about 3 then wake and a huge dump of cortisol surges through me my body just heats up I then lay in bed hope it to go back to sleep but the surges just keep coming I don’t have any anxiety but just feel so fatigued I have tried a few supplements to help magnesium fish oil and aspirin even tried seriphos but everything ramps up my physical symptoms i even tried vitamin c and it was awful made things 10x worse Today I got up and had to go to my dads to take him some shopping I felt dreadful I felt lost consumed by depression very uncomfortable symptoms but I made myself go 1 hour later I got back home feeling of overwhelming depressed and unwell so I put my walking shoes on and went for a 45 minute walk across the fields where I live alone arriving home I felt exhausted soaked in sweat so I went in and sat for 1/2 until I felt more easier then I made myself eat I look out of the window it is raining here in the uk and a very dull day which doesn’t help I had a terrible feeling of apathy mixed with depression that just wanted me to cry and curl in a ball so I put my shoes on and went out to my shed and started to rearrange it I tidy it up moved stuff threw some stuff away even though I hated every minute of it I pushed through it I was actually crying at one stage the thinking of how the hell did I ever get into this position but I made myself carry on and try to change my mind set from a negative to a positive by telling myself what I was doing was a positive I then went for some lunch and read for a few hours then at about 4.30 pm I had a massive wave of overwhelming depression with the horrible suicidal thoughts more of I wish I could end all this rather than making a plan sort of thought in the first two years of withdrawal suicidal thoughts never left me they were constant for two years but they eventually stopped but have returned now since the cortisol spikes started again so I made myself go upstairs and try and tidy a draw up that I have been meaning to do to try and distract myself from how I was feeling but it was very hard The thing is now here in the uk the clocks have gone back which means it’s dark at 4.30 it’s cold and miserable so the nights can be long it’s funny though the last hour of the evening seems the only time I feel calm maybe it’s because I know it’s nearly time to go to bed even if it’s only for a few hours sleep Hi @Terry4949, this is so great. I am so proud of you for striving to get through this and doing what is necessary. I am so sorry it is still so difficult but keep distracting yourself. It really will help. For the first hellish 4 months of withdrawal (and many more after) I would go to board game meetups because it was distracting me enough that I didn't have to think of the cortisol ridden restlessness. That got much better. I still have issues now as I lower my doses but they are nowhere near the same. This will pass for you too. Just keep distracting in whatever way you can. And you can be proud of the things you accomplish as well such as clearing your shed and so on. Every little positive helps. And pls do the CBT assignments that Chessie has posted. They really help. They may not be a cure immediately but they can turn things around. I know how hard it is to have anhedonia and not feel like doing things. Do them anyway. The evening relief is not uncommon with cortisol spikes which is another indication that it is cortisol. The things that have helped me for the spikes - - blackout curtains (at some point I had kitchen foil on my east facing bedroom windows) - baby aspirin before bed - some find soothing music very helpful. Note that vigorous exercise can increase cortisol so running etc may not be a good idea right now (you didn't say that you did that, just pre-warning). Have you seen this below? Many people find it very useful. Keep up the good work. Just push through all kinds of dark thoughts and feelings - they are just thoughts and feelings, not reality! Small progress is still progress. You have much to be proud of and I am so proud of you for putting in the effort. "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted November 5, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 5, 2022 I was fortunate to have done a CBT course (I call it Change Bad Thinking) about 1 year before I arrived at SA. In Australia there is a free online course for Australians called Mindspot. When I did the course I hadn't even considered coming off my AD. During my taper, and now during the time since I have been off, I have found that it really helps with various things. There are other non drug coping techniques that I have learned since being here at SA and they also have been helpful. When I hurt my back 2 years ago the non drug coping helped me to get through it. I seem to have a very low pain tolerance and I don't know what would have happened if I hadn't had these skills. I am sure that it would have been a lot harder to deal with both mentally and physically and may have taken me longer to recover. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Terry4949 Posted November 6, 2022 Author Share Posted November 6, 2022 I had a very unsettling day yesterday in all but tried my hardest to push through I tried a few distractions by trying to do various jobs I managed to go for a walk but last night I went to bed at 10am did my usual bed time routine the room is very dark and cool and with in minutes fell a sleep I woke 1 hour later to the most toxic chemical burning feeling all over the bed was cold with sweat so I lay for a hour practising breathing exercises but to no avail it’s now 5 am in the morning and I havnt been able to go back to sleep my body is burning from head to toe I feel very fatigued as I just want to sleep I have tried to read a book but can’t seem to distract myself from the physical symptoms I have been trying to let myself accept that these are just unpleasant symptoms that they can’t harm me just physical symptoms from a damaged nervous system but the overwhelming burning feelings in my hands face and feet are very strong it is very hard to distract from I have noticed that if I wake early after a short period of sleep like last night my symptoms seem to be far worse not sure why it is very wet and dark out side here in the uk at the moment otherwise I would try and go for a walk to see if that helped I feel like I could jump in a lake of cold water to cool my skin this is my biggest problem the physical burning feeling does this point more to cortisol or adrenaline as I can’t figure out why I feel so toxic 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment
Terry4949 Posted November 7, 2022 Author Share Posted November 7, 2022 Well another day has passed same as the day before but I did manage to get about 3-4 hours sleep last night before the dreaded cortisol spike started I find once it has kicked off I have to get up it makes me feel awful I yawn a lot and feel so tired from the relentless loss of sleep it always feels like I have been punched in the stomach a real uncomfortable ache I think where the cortisol spikes come from well to day was another struggle deep depression but I forced myself out for a walk even though I felt very clammy and dizzy have to be careful as I feel faint if I walk to fast the weather is still bad and rained a lot so spent a lot of the day reading and trying to think positive I have noticed for some reason in the afternoon from around 1pm to 3pm my mood always drops into deep despair and suicidal idealation I wonder if this is to do with cortisol and the carcadium rythm so I tried yesterday to distract myself even though the chemical feeling was strong so I went down my shed to do some bits and pieces I tried to eat a little bit yesterday but for some unknown reason I had a really upset stomach which is not like me I try to eat very healthy and every few hours but appetite is poor I tried to be a bit more positive today by phoning a old friend I did find it hard to talk to him on the phone as I really don’t won’t to talk to anyone much at the moment but it was a positive thing to do Today will be my 4 week of this awful set back the worse since the start 6 years ago hopefully I will start to turn a corner soon I think if I didn’t feel so fatigued I would feel better but I am going to just try to keep thinking positive 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted November 7, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 7, 2022 @Terry4949 good job for pudding through and trying to distract yourself. I know how hard this is. The burning points more to peripheral nerve damage/recovery. I used to get it in my feet before and still get it occasionally during withdrawal. It can happen without withdrawal but is a common withdrawal symptom as well. It will go away. Have you ever seen this post? She has explanations but also some tips for getting through, specifically the burning. 3-4 hours sleep is good. You can survive on that. Have you ever considered epsom salt baths? Omw "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
Terry4949 Posted November 7, 2022 Author Share Posted November 7, 2022 4 hours ago, Onmyway said: @Terry4949 good job for pudding through and trying to distract yourself. I know how hard this is. The burning points more to peripheral nerve damage/recovery. I used to get it in my feet before and still get it occasionally during withdrawal. It can happen without withdrawal but is a common withdrawal symptom as well. It will go away. Have you ever seen this post? She has explanations but also some tips for getting through, specifically the burning. 3-4 hours sleep is good. You can survive on that. Have you ever considered epsom salt baths? Omw Thank you for your reply to answer your question yes I have seen the post in fact over the last 6 years I think I have read most posts from top to bottom but thanks for the thought I have tried Epsom salt baths a few times but not found any benefits I tend to over heat and feel sick if I have a bath even before meds so I normally shower unfortunately I can’t even take magnesium so sensitive I have been for another walk to day but felt so unwell it was truly a struggle the depression is so deep at the moment I just cant seem to get a break from it and energy and fatigue are crippling I had so many negative thoughts whilst out walking and every time I tried to replace it with a positive one it was very tough going so I have done my bit for today my dad is 82 and lives on his own and I have to shower him and do his meds so I made myself go up and change his bed sheets shower him and sorted his meds I felt so low and unmotivated it was awful as he is my dad who I think the world off but I can hardly look after myself let alone him he is in poor health now and I don’t tell him how I’m feeling but I think he can see it but I’m pleased that I went up and forced myself out I am trying to be positive but the depression truly holds me down but I will keep on working on positive thoughts I just wish i didn’t feel so empty inside if it was t for the deepest depression I think I could handle the more physical side of things in all the years off being on antidepressants and the 6 years off I truly have never felt it so deep rooted and consuming I sometimes think if this is withdrawal or real depression it’s so hard to tell I hope you are having a good day 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted November 7, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 7, 2022 (edited) Hi @Terry4949, how nice of you to take care of your ailing dad even when you are struggling! You sound like a very kind human being and a loyal son! And I am so proud of you for trying so hard. The thing about thoughts though is not so much to replace negative ones with positive ones but to try to uncover the distortions in the thoughts. For example, if you think: "I will never get better" can you identify all the thought distortions from the list below? https://arfamiliesfirst.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Cognitive-Distortions.pdf https://positivepsychology.com/cognitive-distortions/ As you realize that your thoughts are distorted (i.e. they do not reflect reality), you can try to find a more realistic thought. You will notice that as you do this your mood will shift. But you need to catch your thoughts, identify the distortions and then find a realistic replacement. You can try a couple here in a post as it requires practice and I can help as well. [I had a therapist who showed me how and it was really helpful.] I really appreciate the effort you are putting in getting better but I notice that you are doing things as you know them rather than following the suggestions that are made here. The reason we are making these suggestions - esp CBT ones, are because they really work. Please try them. You could use a little it of a shift in your mood. Sometimes these shifts can set off upward spirals. Have you done any of the exercises that Chessicat posted? For the physical stuff I saw that Chessie posted this video on different thread on lowering your cortisol through your breathing. It doesn't hurt to try it. Another thing to try would be the Claire Weekes method. Can you give each of these a try for 10 min each tomorrow (at least) and get at least some respite? [link to Claire Weeks method should be above but there are videos on YouTube about it as well]. If the physical exertion is hard, you can do only as much as you can. Don't push yourself too hard. So for tomorrow - if things are still bad 1) Thought identification, distortion identification and thought challenge (you can post the exercise here so we can help) 2) Breathing for lowering cortisol 3) Claire Weekes And I would re-read the 'What is Happening in your brain' post anyway (I reread it every couple of months) if I were you even if you have already read it. She has some remedies about burning skin there. Good job getting through another tough day! Hope you get a bit of respite in the evening. Cheering from the sidelines, OMW Edited November 7, 2022 by Onmyway "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted November 7, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 7, 2022 6 hours ago, Terry4949 said: I tend to over heat and feel sick if I have a bath You don't have to have a hot bath. Choose a comfortable temperature. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Terry4949 Posted November 8, 2022 Author Share Posted November 8, 2022 11 hours ago, Onmyway said: Hi @Terry4949, how nice of you to take care of your ailing dad even when you are struggling! You sound like a very kind human being and a loyal son! And I am so proud of you for trying so hard. The thing about thoughts though is not so much to replace negative ones with positive ones but to try to uncover the distortions in the thoughts. For example, if you think: "I will never get better" can you identify all the thought distortions from the list below? https://arfamiliesfirst.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Cognitive-Distortions.pdf https://positivepsychology.com/cognitive-distortions/ As you realize that your thoughts are distorted (i.e. they do not reflect reality), you can try to find a more realistic thought. You will notice that as you do this your mood will shift. But you need to catch your thoughts, identify the distortions and then find a realistic replacement. You can try a couple here in a post as it requires practice and I can help as well. [I had a therapist who showed me how and it was really helpful.] I really appreciate the effort you are putting in getting better but I notice that you are doing things as you know them rather than following the suggestions that are made here. The reason we are making these suggestions - esp CBT ones, are because they really work. Please try them. You could use a little it of a shift in your mood. Sometimes these shifts can set off upward spirals. Have you done any of the exercises that Chessicat posted? For the physical stuff I saw that Chessie posted this video on different thread on lowering your cortisol through your breathing. It doesn't hurt to try it. Another thing to try would be the Claire Weekes method. Can you give each of these a try for 10 min each tomorrow (at least) and get at least some respite? [link to Claire Weeks method should be above but there are videos on YouTube about it as well]. If the physical exertion is hard, you can do only as much as you can. Don't push yourself too hard. So for tomorrow - if things are still bad 1) Thought identification, distortion identification and thought challenge (you can post the exercise here so we can help) 2) Breathing for lowering cortisol 3) Claire Weekes And I would re-read the 'What is Happening in your brain' post anyway (I reread it every couple of months) if I were you even if you have already read it. She has some remedies about burning skin there. Good job getting through another tough day! Hope you get a bit of respite in the evening. Cheering from the sidelines, OMW Hi onmyway I had CBT many years ago but was in the deepest of withdrawal and to be honest I didn’t find any relief I had about 12 sessions with a lady but the physical symptoms were so over whelming back then it was so hard to concentrate I have practised breathing techniques for many years and have had success with them calming me down I have used many different ways and methods some have put me to sleep in minutes when I have gone to bed very quickly fortunately I don’t suffer from panic attacks This morning I lay in bed I was awake no panic or anxiety just awake the room was very dark and it felt nice and warm in bed when I was just hit with a massive jolt then the flood gates opened up cortisol and adrenaline flooded through my body with in seconds my body became hot and sweaty yet I still had no panic or anxiety just a feeling of drowsiness I then lay there for 30 minutes doing very steady and slow breathing but it has no effect my body then keeps jolting and releasing more so I have to get up it’s strange as the last couple of nights I have had weird dreams don’t normally dream plus I keep getting cramp in both legs new symptom to me My day again yesterday was very difficult the fatigue makes it very hard to push and the depression is so deep trying to change and think about my thought process is very hard as I’m just so mentally tired I read Claire weeks many years ago she was a inspiration and I understand much of what she says I will read through her stuff again The post regarding what is happening in our Brain is very well written I remember reading it years ago and I read it again yesterday I truly understand what they are saying even though they were on a benzo but I’m sure it’s the same with antidepressant I think because it has been 6 years off all meds now for me I find it hard to believe of recovery my thought pattern is tired of waiting for healing possibly but the depression doesn’t help I know The links that chessiecat put up I can’t down load I’m not very good with computers so I cannot do the excersises I understand the formate but it confuses me thank you so much for your support and your reply’s it’s early here in the uk still dark and my mind is already starting to think of the negative day ahead of me my body feels so tired if I could just shift the depression and si I think I could be a bit more positive dam cortisol 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment
Terry4949 Posted November 8, 2022 Author Share Posted November 8, 2022 16 hours ago, Onmyway said: Hi @Terry4949, how nice of you to take care of your ailing dad even when you are struggling! You sound like a very kind human being and a loyal son! And I am so proud of you for trying so hard. The thing about thoughts though is not so much to replace negative ones with positive ones but to try to uncover the distortions in the thoughts. For example, if you think: "I will never get better" can you identify all the thought distortions from the list below? https://arfamiliesfirst.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Cognitive-Distortions.pdf https://positivepsychology.com/cognitive-distortions/ As you realize that your thoughts are distorted (i.e. they do not reflect reality), you can try to find a more realistic thought. You will notice that as you do this your mood will shift. But you need to catch your thoughts, identify the distortions and then find a realistic replacement. You can try a couple here in a post as it requires practice and I can help as well. [I had a therapist who showed me how and it was really helpful.] I really appreciate the effort you are putting in getting better but I notice that you are doing things as you know them rather than following the suggestions that are made here. The reason we are making these suggestions - esp CBT ones, are because they really work. Please try them. You could use a little it of a shift in your mood. Sometimes these shifts can set off upward spirals. Have you done any of the exercises that Chessicat posted? For the physical stuff I saw that Chessie posted this video on different thread on lowering your cortisol through your breathing. It doesn't hurt to try it. Another thing to try would be the Claire Weekes method. Can you give each of these a try for 10 min each tomorrow (at least) and get at least some respite? [link to Claire Weeks method should be above but there are videos on YouTube about it as well]. If the physical exertion is hard, you can do only as much as you can. Don't push yourself too hard. So for tomorrow - if things are still bad 1) Thought identification, distortion identification and thought challenge (you can post the exercise here so we can help) 2) Breathing for lowering cortisol 3) Claire Weekes And I would re-read the 'What is Happening in your brain' post anyway (I reread it every couple of months) if I were you even if you have already read it. She has some remedies about burning skin there. Good job getting through another tough day! Hope you get a bit of respite in the evening. Cheering from the sidelines, OMW So today I woke up at the normal time sudden cortisol surge came down had a drink of water and sat on the couch with the lamp on first thoughts were 1 he we go again another day of struggle and depression is this how it’s all ways going to be then my thoughts changed to suicidal idealations that I just can’t cope with this feeling anymore which then started up the anxiety that I panicked because the thought of ending it all scared me 2 the physical feeling I started to get very hot nervousness cold sweats agitation and over whelming fatigue 3 I then just lay down and put a cover over me to keep warm I tried to look at it from a different view that maybe I am fuelling-it by thinking that way I said to myself I got through yesterday so I will today I can see what the CBT is trying to do but I find it so hard to practise as the overwhelming feeling of emptiness and apathy is so deep I cannot laugh or smile at anything the total lack of enjoyment is awful I did try a online mindfulness course but I think this can help people who are in depression but I think for us that who are in protracted withdrawal it’s not much help I didn’t find any benefits my mind just could not focus for any amount of time I don’t think I have ever felt this level of depression in all the years of withdrawal I can feel it in the pit of my stomach some how I find this more disturbing than the physical symptoms 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted November 8, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 8, 2022 Hi @Terry4949 if you can't do CC's CBT then you can do the assignment that I suggested - identify one negative thought. Whether CBT works or not depends entirely on whether people actually practice it - not on the therapist. It is a tool/skill that you apply - like cutting vegetables or doing laundry. You seem resistant to do it. If you think nothing works and don't do it, then it is not going to work. Simple as that. Above I can identify multiple negative thoughts. If you can think, you can identify the thoughts. Thought 1: Here we go again another day of struggle and depression Thought 2: Is this how it’s all ways going Take these and identify the distortions and write the alternative scenario. Read the David Burns book of watch a YouTube video. If I thought that way even I would be depressed and suicidal. With each of these thoughts you are starting downward spirals that then keep pushing you into the rabbit hole. You can't change what has happened to you. It's in the past. But you have control over how you deal with it - your attitude, whether you decide to submit to these thoughts, whether you change your behavior. And depending on which path you take, you create physiological changes in your body that then make you feel worse - if you think there is no hope, you are starting biochemical processes in your body that then make you feel worse and hopeless which then causes you to feel depressed and so on. I have provided you with plenty of resources above and direction on what to do. You can choose to wallow in the pain or you can choose to do something about it. NOBODY else can do that for you. And one can find a million excuses to not do anything if they wanted. This is really up to you. Nobody is denying this is hard but even with that difficulty there are ways to make things better. Which road you choose is entirely up to you right now - you can continue suffering or apply the non-drug techniques. Reading them, knowing them doesn't help, you actually have to apply them - both CBT and Claire Weeks. OMW 1 "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
Terry4949 Posted November 9, 2022 Author Share Posted November 9, 2022 8 hours ago, Onmyway said: Hi @Terry4949 if you can't do CC's CBT then you can do the assignment that I suggested - identify one negative thought. Whether CBT works or not depends entirely on whether people actually practice it - not on the therapist. It is a tool/skill that you apply - like cutting vegetables or doing laundry. You seem resistant to do it. If you think nothing works and don't do it, then it is not going to work. Simple as that. Above I can identify multiple negative thoughts. If you can think, you can identify the thoughts. Thought 1: Here we go again another day of struggle and depression Thought 2: Is this how it’s all ways going Take these and identify the distortions and write the alternative scenario. Read the David Burns book of watch a YouTube video. If I thought that way even I would be depressed and suicidal. With each of these thoughts you are starting downward spirals that then keep pushing you into the rabbit hole. You can't change what has happened to you. It's in the past. But you have control over how you deal with it - your attitude, whether you decide to submit to these thoughts, whether you change your behavior. And depending on which path you take, you create physiological changes in your body that then make you feel worse - if you think there is no hope, you are starting biochemical processes in your body that then make you feel worse and hopeless which then causes you to feel depressed and so on. I have provided you with plenty of resources above and direction on what to do. You can choose to wallow in the pain or you can choose to do something about it. NOBODY else can do that for you. And one can find a million excuses to not do anything if they wanted. This is really up to you. Nobody is denying this is hard but even with that difficulty there are ways to make things better. Which road you choose is entirely up to you right now - you can continue suffering or apply the non-drug techniques. Reading them, knowing them doesn't help, you actually have to apply them - both CBT and Claire Weeks. OMW Thank you for your reply yesterday I took one thought like you said it was the thought that this is how it’s all ways going to be I wrote it down I then made a list next to it of thoughts that i could have had or I could think that changes it around I tried to look at it from a different view but I only stuck with that one thought for the day I know my thoughts are distorted and they are all negative due to the endless loop and only I can do the work to get me out of this and I will try to change how I look at things I read some of the Claire weeks yesterday I have read it before and I can again see how things can become fear of fear and I know apart of that is me I know it’s due to because I have been in withdrawal for 6 years now that I believe I won’t heal I need to learn to accept it I worry that it will never end and by doing this I am only fuelling my fear I think the very lack of sleep and the awful cortisol is playing it’s part which doesn’t help and yesterday the depressive state and si was again very strong so at the moment my concentration is very poor As you say reading them and applying them doesn’t help but I have to apply them in order to make progress and I truly understand and I am going to really try and put this into practise I think the fatigue holds me back as my concentration is very poor and I can read something then forget it with in minutes i thank you for your patients and the time you have spent replying to me without support from this group I have no one my family want me back on a med or are saying I need to go in to hospital so only I can help me your have provided me with some tools and I need to try and use them 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted November 9, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 9, 2022 Another member has posted the following: 8 hours ago, Storm365 said: But, I tried not to focus too much on how much sleep I was getting at night, because it made me even more anxious. Sometimes I would try to nap during the day, which helped with some of the restless feeling. To help me sleep I listened to ocean sounds, meditation apps, or bedtime stories on audio. I was also having the cortisol spikes too, for those I did meditation, went for a walk, and wrote in my journal, also did deep breathing exercises. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Mentor RachelSusan Posted November 9, 2022 Mentor Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) @Terry4949 I am responding to the message you sent me. I thought your questions were so good that others could benefit from hearing us discuss it here. I downloaded a booklet from the link that ChessieCat sent. I was actually able to download the entire self help course, all for free. It is not a fix-all but it is a very good start. When I started to go down the rabbit hole of anxiety provoking thinking in the middle of the night I substituted more neutral ideas. For example when I felt that some tremors I was having was the cause of something disastrous I was able to say, "all I know is that I am having tremors and it could be one of many things. I don't have have the information to say what it is." The next morning I reviewed what I thought could be causing it and then got on the phone with my primary doctor and made an appointment. I am not suggesting that you make an appointment or need to make any appointment, I am just sharing with you what I did. I am suggesting that you use the workbook. And yes, I found it very hard to keep substituting the anxiety ideas for more neutral ones. Very hard indeed. But last night in some small measure it did work for me. You mentioned seeing a psychiatrist. I don't know if the UK medical insurance covers a psychologist, but if they do is that something you could explore? I think you do need someone to talk to, more than the conversations here on this thread.. I know in my country we have hot-lines that someone can call, I would imaging you have something similar in your country? So can you maybe think about what resources are available to you? I came up with a few, hot-line if available, psychologist if available, ChessieCat's booklet. What about clergy in your country, do they ever offer therapy sessions? I know many years ago they used to, I don't know about now. I am also including ChessieCat's link so you don't have to go back in your thread and search for it. Terry, I know you are suffering terribly and a booklet certainly is very little in light of your needs and how you are suffering, but maybe it could be a tiny little start? Please think about any resources that might be available to you. I know I am repeating myself but I do want to see you feel better. On 11/5/2022 at 12:44 AM, ChessieCat said: https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/cbt-self-help-course-step-1/ Edited November 9, 2022 by RachelSusan typos 1 I am not a health professional in any way. I do not give medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a professional medical practitioner. NEW INFORMATION FOR GABAPENTIN TAPER April 29, 2022 900 mg to 800 mg (11%), May 29, 2022 800 to 700 mg (12.5%), June 20, 2022 700 to 650mg (8%), July 20, 2022 650 to 575 (12%), August 20, 575 to 500 (13%), Sept 20, 2020 500 to 475mg (5%) Nov 7, 2022 475 to 425 (11%), Nov 21, 2022 500mg Medications: Gabapentin, Prednisone 1.5mg a day, Cortisol Inhaler daily. HISTORY FOR ZOLOFT TAPER Feb. 2016 to June 2016 - Was on 150mg Zoloft. Put on Gabapentin at 900mg a day in 2016 due to antidepressant withdrawal. Quit Zoloft (Sertraline) June 2016, reinstated 50mg of Zoloft July 2016. From July 2016 to October 2016 went from 50 mg down 2.3 mg. I up-dosed in November 2016 to 12.5 mg. Held there until January 2017 when I started a much slower taper. STARTING SENSIBLE ZOLOFT TAPERING USING GUIDELINES FROM THIS SITE Dec. 10 2016 - switched to Liquid Zoloft (Sertraline) @ 12.5 mg. Jan. 4, 2020 1.875 mg (6.3%). Jan. 25, 2020 1.75 mg. Feb. 29, 2020 1.625mg (7.10%). Apr. 4, 2020 1.5 mg. May 9, 2020 1.375 mg. June 6, 2020 1.25 mg. (9.10%). July 4, 2020 1.125 mg. (10%). August 15, 2020 1.0 mg. Oct 24, 2020 .875 mg. Nov. 28, 2020 .75mg. Jan 16, 2021 .685mg (8.7%). Feb 13, 2021 .62mg. March 12, 2021 .56mg. May 1, 2021 .375mg. May 29, 2021 .25mg. June 26, 2021 .0125mg. July 25, 2021 .065mg. August 22, 2021 .048mg. October 2, 2021 .043mg. October 10, 2021 .038mg. October 23, 2021 .035mg. October 30, 2021 .032mg. Nov. 13, 2021 .030 mg. Dec 4, 2021 .0285 mg. Dec 11, 2021 .0265 mg. Dec 18, 2021 .0246 mg. Dec 25, 2021 .023mg. Jan 1, 2022. 0 mg. OFF COMPLETELY Link to comment
Terry4949 Posted November 10, 2022 Author Share Posted November 10, 2022 8 hours ago, RachelSusan said: @Terry4949 I am responding to the message you sent me. I thought your questions were so good that others could benefit from hearing us discuss it here. I downloaded a booklet from the link that ChessieCat sent. I was actually able to download the entire self help course, all for free. It is not a fix-all but it is a very good start. When I started to go down the rabbit hole of anxiety provoking thinking in the middle of the night I substituted more neutral ideas. For example when I felt that some tremors I was having was the cause of something disastrous I was able to say, "all I know is that I am having tremors and it could be one of many things. I don't have have the information to say what it is." The next morning I reviewed what I thought could be causing it and then got on the phone with my primary doctor and made an appointment. I am not suggesting that you make an appointment or need to make any appointment, I am just sharing with you what I did. I am suggesting that you use the workbook. And yes, I found it very hard to keep substituting the anxiety ideas for more neutral ones. Very hard indeed. But last night in some small measure it did work for me. You mentioned seeing a psychiatrist. I don't know if the UK medical insurance covers a psychologist, but if they do is that something you could explore? I think you do need someone to talk to, more than the conversations here on this thread.. I know in my country we have hot-lines that someone can call, I would imaging you have something similar in your country? So can you maybe think about what resources are available to you? I came up with a few, hot-line if available, psychologist if available, ChessieCat's booklet. What about clergy in your country, do they ever offer therapy sessions? I know many years ago they used to, I don't know about now. I am also including ChessieCat's link so you don't have to go back in your thread and search for it. Terry, I know you are suffering terribly and a booklet certainly is very little in light of your needs and how you are suffering, but maybe it could be a tiny little start? Please think about any resources that might be available to you. I know I am repeating myself but I do want to see you feel better. Thank you for your reply yesterday I phoned a mental health wellbeing clinic which gives support and help resources they are going to make me a appointment the only problem for me is that it is some distance and I will need to get there unfortunately here in the uk help of any nature to a physiatrist or psychologist or anything is very poor waiting times are up to a year Like you I am trying to implement the CBT practise when I woke this morning to a large rush of adrenaline I used a different way of thinking about I accepted it I told myself that I was having a cortisol adrenaline spike that I was in bed warm and safe and that there was no threat so it was just a abnormal sensation so I said to myself just let it pass and when it does in the morning I can review it I thank you for your support I will try again today to see what help support wise I can get but like I say the uk is very poor and waiting list are so long but I will keep practising the CBT plus I am going to see what online programs there are to help 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted November 10, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 10, 2022 (edited) From https://www.samaritans.org/news/samaritans-launches-new-free-helpline-number-uk/ Samaritans Samaritans is available round the clock, every single day of the year, providing a safe place for anyone who is struggling to cope. Please call 116 123, or visit www.samaritans.org to find details of the nearest branch. Edited November 10, 2022 by ChessieCat * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
Mentor RachelSusan Posted November 10, 2022 Mentor Share Posted November 10, 2022 @Terry4949 I think calling the mental health clinic is wonderful. Do whatever you have to do to get there. If you have to hire a private car to do so then do it. I don't know what your financial resources are but now is the time to take care of yourself if you can. Good for you trying to practice the CBT method. I do hear you when you say that there isn't much psychological support but I encourage you to keep trying. Will a private pay psychologists ever offer a sliding scale? Again, I don't know what your financial situation is but if there is anyway please consider it. I know it feels like a huge burden money wise but you can't continue to suffer like this. I see ChessieCat provided you with a both a link and a phone number to the Samaritans. Please reach out to them today, now. Keep reaching out. If you get one person on the phone that isn't helpful then hang up and call back. Keep calling back. You said your family is tired of this situation, but could you enlist any of them to at least make calls on your behalf? To do research? You will have to be crystal clear with them though, you are not looking for medication or medical help but rather psychological help, talk therapy, CBT, or whatever types of therapy that does not include medication. If they can't honor this or you suspect they won't honor it then don't involve them. You must reach out to more than one place. You might have to knock on a lot of doors before one opens. Keep knocking my friend. I know when a person is depressed it is hard to get the momentum going to find help, but keep pushing in whatever way you can. Try giving yourself a quota for contacting agencies. If you quota is one a day, one a week, or one a fortnight try to reach it. If you don't then don't beat yourself up, just try to do it as soon as you can. But do start with a quota in your mind, it will give you something to aim for. My hope is if you reach an agency that is not able to help you they might offer a suggestion or referral that will increase your scope of places to reach out to. If they don't offer please be sure to ask if they have any suggestions. What if you tell yourself they every time you post here you also call the samaritians? You would increase your avenues of help that way. I think it is great you are on this site but you need more help than what can be provided here. I am not a health professional in any way. I do not give medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a professional medical practitioner. NEW INFORMATION FOR GABAPENTIN TAPER April 29, 2022 900 mg to 800 mg (11%), May 29, 2022 800 to 700 mg (12.5%), June 20, 2022 700 to 650mg (8%), July 20, 2022 650 to 575 (12%), August 20, 575 to 500 (13%), Sept 20, 2020 500 to 475mg (5%) Nov 7, 2022 475 to 425 (11%), Nov 21, 2022 500mg Medications: Gabapentin, Prednisone 1.5mg a day, Cortisol Inhaler daily. HISTORY FOR ZOLOFT TAPER Feb. 2016 to June 2016 - Was on 150mg Zoloft. Put on Gabapentin at 900mg a day in 2016 due to antidepressant withdrawal. Quit Zoloft (Sertraline) June 2016, reinstated 50mg of Zoloft July 2016. From July 2016 to October 2016 went from 50 mg down 2.3 mg. I up-dosed in November 2016 to 12.5 mg. Held there until January 2017 when I started a much slower taper. STARTING SENSIBLE ZOLOFT TAPERING USING GUIDELINES FROM THIS SITE Dec. 10 2016 - switched to Liquid Zoloft (Sertraline) @ 12.5 mg. Jan. 4, 2020 1.875 mg (6.3%). Jan. 25, 2020 1.75 mg. Feb. 29, 2020 1.625mg (7.10%). Apr. 4, 2020 1.5 mg. May 9, 2020 1.375 mg. June 6, 2020 1.25 mg. (9.10%). July 4, 2020 1.125 mg. (10%). August 15, 2020 1.0 mg. Oct 24, 2020 .875 mg. Nov. 28, 2020 .75mg. Jan 16, 2021 .685mg (8.7%). Feb 13, 2021 .62mg. March 12, 2021 .56mg. May 1, 2021 .375mg. May 29, 2021 .25mg. June 26, 2021 .0125mg. July 25, 2021 .065mg. August 22, 2021 .048mg. October 2, 2021 .043mg. October 10, 2021 .038mg. October 23, 2021 .035mg. October 30, 2021 .032mg. Nov. 13, 2021 .030 mg. Dec 4, 2021 .0285 mg. Dec 11, 2021 .0265 mg. Dec 18, 2021 .0246 mg. Dec 25, 2021 .023mg. Jan 1, 2022. 0 mg. OFF COMPLETELY Link to comment
Mentor RachelSusan Posted November 10, 2022 Mentor Share Posted November 10, 2022 (edited) @Terry4949You said there is a waiting list for psychological help of up to a year, are you on a waiting list at this time? If not then please get yourself on that list. This will count as one of the calls you make to reach your quota. You can also call back a place that you have called before. For example, if you are on a waiting list call back every few months. Remind them that you are willing to take any spot if someone cancels. These types of calls also help you to meet your quota. Edited November 10, 2022 by RachelSusan typo I am not a health professional in any way. I do not give medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a professional medical practitioner. NEW INFORMATION FOR GABAPENTIN TAPER April 29, 2022 900 mg to 800 mg (11%), May 29, 2022 800 to 700 mg (12.5%), June 20, 2022 700 to 650mg (8%), July 20, 2022 650 to 575 (12%), August 20, 575 to 500 (13%), Sept 20, 2020 500 to 475mg (5%) Nov 7, 2022 475 to 425 (11%), Nov 21, 2022 500mg Medications: Gabapentin, Prednisone 1.5mg a day, Cortisol Inhaler daily. HISTORY FOR ZOLOFT TAPER Feb. 2016 to June 2016 - Was on 150mg Zoloft. Put on Gabapentin at 900mg a day in 2016 due to antidepressant withdrawal. Quit Zoloft (Sertraline) June 2016, reinstated 50mg of Zoloft July 2016. From July 2016 to October 2016 went from 50 mg down 2.3 mg. I up-dosed in November 2016 to 12.5 mg. Held there until January 2017 when I started a much slower taper. STARTING SENSIBLE ZOLOFT TAPERING USING GUIDELINES FROM THIS SITE Dec. 10 2016 - switched to Liquid Zoloft (Sertraline) @ 12.5 mg. Jan. 4, 2020 1.875 mg (6.3%). Jan. 25, 2020 1.75 mg. Feb. 29, 2020 1.625mg (7.10%). Apr. 4, 2020 1.5 mg. May 9, 2020 1.375 mg. June 6, 2020 1.25 mg. (9.10%). July 4, 2020 1.125 mg. (10%). August 15, 2020 1.0 mg. Oct 24, 2020 .875 mg. Nov. 28, 2020 .75mg. Jan 16, 2021 .685mg (8.7%). Feb 13, 2021 .62mg. March 12, 2021 .56mg. May 1, 2021 .375mg. May 29, 2021 .25mg. June 26, 2021 .0125mg. July 25, 2021 .065mg. August 22, 2021 .048mg. October 2, 2021 .043mg. October 10, 2021 .038mg. October 23, 2021 .035mg. October 30, 2021 .032mg. Nov. 13, 2021 .030 mg. Dec 4, 2021 .0285 mg. Dec 11, 2021 .0265 mg. Dec 18, 2021 .0246 mg. Dec 25, 2021 .023mg. Jan 1, 2022. 0 mg. OFF COMPLETELY Link to comment
Terry4949 Posted November 10, 2022 Author Share Posted November 10, 2022 12 minutes ago, RachelSusan said: @Terry4949You said there is a waiting list for psychological help of up to a year, are you on a waiting list at this time? If not then please get yourself on that list. This will count as one of the calls you make to reach your quota. You can also call back a place that you have called before. For example, if you are on a waiting list call back every few months. Remind them that you are willing to take any spot if someone cancels. These types of calls also help you to meet your quota. Hi rachelsusan I manage to get through to a mental well being service and a lady called Silvia phoned me back we had a one and a half hour conversation the lady went through many things with me and it was helpful After answering a load of questions she says that a plan needs putting in place I explained to her that I had been on many antidepressants over a long period of time and that I hit tolerance and then was put on a merry go round of on and off all pills and that I was suffering long term antidepressants withdrawal she was rather taken back that I was still suffering 6 years later she did not dismiss what I said and In fact she said she had seen a lot of people in severe distress at getting off and being off meds the lady said that they are not allowed to administer antidepressants so she was suggesting them She then said that there are two ways off looking at it that yes it could still be withdrawal or it could be withdrawal that has caused a second bout of severe depression that is not related ie that I have become so depressed because I am constantly worrying about how I feel and my symptoms which could be possible I suppose The lady then said that she was unhappy that the doctors were not following up on long term health issues even though I know that most withdrawal symptoms do not show up on test but for the last few years I have had high ferritin way above range plus the last one showed low phosphate which can be a sign of chronic inflammation or thyroid issues I am not looking to find answers in that sense but she has a point as what is causing this maybe it is withdrawal The lady then moved on to my sleep which she said was a concern as I told her in 6 years I have never slept longer than 1-3 hours on average a night and in the last 6 months I can wake 20+ times a night plus huge surges in cortisol are making things worse she would like to get a sleep study done again this could be just withdrawal as I know many have poor sleep I told her about my severe depression at the moment and she said I needed support she is going to send me some links through plus some forms to fill in and then she is going to write to my doctor advising that all test should be done for vitamins electrolytes hormones a complete panel so that if they come back normal we know that is withdrawal or depression The lady is going to set up CBT and phycological session for me she said that she felt that I have been on a drug merry go round and that the symptom had failed me even in withdrawals she said that mental health has come along way over the years and now doctors are starting to realise that patients need support from coming off the meds ( but I bet they still don’t know what to do for those that are harmed ) im not expecting over night success but at least it is a start The lady is going to contact me in a week so it’s not to long a wait but hopefully I will get the forms to get started 2 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment
Mentor RachelSusan Posted November 10, 2022 Mentor Share Posted November 10, 2022 @Terry4949This is fantastic. Please, if you don't hear from her in a week give her a call as people get really busy. I don't quite understand who this lady is or how you reached her but I am sure glad you did. Everything you are telling me sounds really good. Terry, I can't begin to tell you how happy I am for you. I know that nothing is a fast fix but just the fact that you found someone to start the process is incredible. Terry, you did this, you reached out and you connected. I am incredibly happy for you. Hang in there my friend. 2 I am not a health professional in any way. I do not give medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a professional medical practitioner. NEW INFORMATION FOR GABAPENTIN TAPER April 29, 2022 900 mg to 800 mg (11%), May 29, 2022 800 to 700 mg (12.5%), June 20, 2022 700 to 650mg (8%), July 20, 2022 650 to 575 (12%), August 20, 575 to 500 (13%), Sept 20, 2020 500 to 475mg (5%) Nov 7, 2022 475 to 425 (11%), Nov 21, 2022 500mg Medications: Gabapentin, Prednisone 1.5mg a day, Cortisol Inhaler daily. HISTORY FOR ZOLOFT TAPER Feb. 2016 to June 2016 - Was on 150mg Zoloft. Put on Gabapentin at 900mg a day in 2016 due to antidepressant withdrawal. Quit Zoloft (Sertraline) June 2016, reinstated 50mg of Zoloft July 2016. From July 2016 to October 2016 went from 50 mg down 2.3 mg. I up-dosed in November 2016 to 12.5 mg. Held there until January 2017 when I started a much slower taper. STARTING SENSIBLE ZOLOFT TAPERING USING GUIDELINES FROM THIS SITE Dec. 10 2016 - switched to Liquid Zoloft (Sertraline) @ 12.5 mg. Jan. 4, 2020 1.875 mg (6.3%). Jan. 25, 2020 1.75 mg. Feb. 29, 2020 1.625mg (7.10%). Apr. 4, 2020 1.5 mg. May 9, 2020 1.375 mg. June 6, 2020 1.25 mg. (9.10%). July 4, 2020 1.125 mg. (10%). August 15, 2020 1.0 mg. Oct 24, 2020 .875 mg. Nov. 28, 2020 .75mg. Jan 16, 2021 .685mg (8.7%). Feb 13, 2021 .62mg. March 12, 2021 .56mg. May 1, 2021 .375mg. May 29, 2021 .25mg. June 26, 2021 .0125mg. July 25, 2021 .065mg. August 22, 2021 .048mg. October 2, 2021 .043mg. October 10, 2021 .038mg. October 23, 2021 .035mg. October 30, 2021 .032mg. Nov. 13, 2021 .030 mg. Dec 4, 2021 .0285 mg. Dec 11, 2021 .0265 mg. Dec 18, 2021 .0246 mg. Dec 25, 2021 .023mg. Jan 1, 2022. 0 mg. OFF COMPLETELY Link to comment
Terry4949 Posted November 12, 2022 Author Share Posted November 12, 2022 I have started dreaming in the last two weeks and it lasts all the time I’m a sleep the thing is for 6 years I have been off all the meds when I have had sleep be it 1-3 hours and on a very rare occasion 4-5 I have never dreamed but since my massive set back I have had dreams that are very strange and some nightmares which are very disturbing I wake feeling awful worse than when I was not dreaming I’m wondering if this is because I have awful cortisol spikes I go to bed at the same time and I feel relaxed I do breathing exercises and generally fall to sleep easy same time every night but now I dream is this a sign that something is happening in my brain after 6 years to be honest I much preferred the No dream sleep as I feel with constant dreaming my brain hasn’t rested can anyone relate I hope this is ok to post here I’m not sure if it should be on my own thread apologies if it’s in the wrong place 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted November 12, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 12, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Terry4949 said: I have started dreaming in the last two weeks and it lasts all the time I’m a sleep the thing is for 6 years I have been off all the meds when I have had sleep be it 1-3 hours and on a very rare occasion 4-5 I have never dreamed but since my massive set back I have had dreams that are very strange and some nightmares which are very disturbing I wake feeling awful worse than when I was not dreaming I’m wondering if this is because I have awful cortisol spikes I go to bed at the same time and I feel relaxed I do breathing exercises and generally fall to sleep easy same time every night but now I dream is this a sign that something is happening in my brain after 6 years to be honest I much preferred the No dream sleep as I feel with constant dreaming my brain hasn’t rested can anyone relate I hope this is ok to post here I’m not sure if it should be on my own thread apologies if it’s in the wrong place Hi @Terry4949 This feels bad as it is happening but it means that your brain is working hard at processing and recovering. All this means is that you are still making adaptations. I consider it good news with regards to withdrawal - it's a symptom of healing! Don't try to make sense of the dreams or worry how bizarre they are - just think of them as signs of recovery - the way an itchy scab is a sign that a wound is healing. Distract from the itch as much as you can! omw Edited November 12, 2022 by Onmyway 1 "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
joy2730 Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 I think your new dreaming is a sign of your brain healing. I agree with everyone else that you must reach out to real life as well as online. Also in real life they do triage cases so you may be seen sooner. I am in the UK too. Insist on a face to face with your GP and press your case. Jan 2023 to July 2023 250mg quetiapine Tapered off quetiapine again over 2 months - now weight problem Link to comment
Terry4949 Posted November 12, 2022 Author Share Posted November 12, 2022 4 hours ago, Onmyway said: Hi @Terry4949 This feels bad as it is happening but it means that your brain is working hard at processing and recovering. All this means is that you are still making adaptations. I consider it good news with regards to withdrawal - it's a symptom of healing! Don't try to make sense of the dreams or worry how bizarre they are - just think of them as signs of recovery - the way an itchy scab is a sign that a wound is healing. Distract from the itch as much as you can! omw The dreams are very strange but not disturbing however I did have a awful nightmare last night and it has stuck with me all day but I no it was only a dream and not real so will just try to let it go it just feels weird no dreams for all those years and now I am I think though because I am dreaming I don’t think I am sleeping so deeply but something must be happening in the brain 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment
Moderator Onmyway Posted November 12, 2022 Moderator Share Posted November 12, 2022 Most dreaming occurs in REM sleep which is bypothesized to be the stage where your brain is making sense of what's happening - consolidating memory etc. It's impacted by both SSRIs and their withdrawal. This coming back is great in terms of recovery. You're on the right path! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapid_eye_movement_sleep "Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. Aug 2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used) Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up) September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0 Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering) citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg, 7/27/19 -1.5 mg, 8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate Link to comment
Terry4949 Posted November 13, 2022 Author Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) Autonomic dumping Does anyone find that at more or less the same time every day that they get a host of symptoms just come over them I find between the hours of 8.30 to 9.30 in the morning I get a huge wave of symptoms first feeling hot then sweating feel so dizzy and faint and a general feeling of being unwell so bad that you have to lay down then it passes over about 30 minutes then you feel a calmness but very fatigued then it doesn’t happen again for the rest of the day Its like every day I can be walking or just sitting doing nothing like this morning I was just sitting and doing a jigsaw puzzle when it came on it knocked me for six then I had to take about 2 hours to recover is there any reason to why this happens I have read up on dystaunomia but I think it could be if it is why doesn’t it last all day The feeling only happens in the time frame in the morning has anyone else experienced this Edited November 13, 2022 by Shep added title after merging from another topic 2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine feb 2015 quetiapine stopped feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg july 2015 citalopram stopped sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine march 2017 all meds stopped Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Shep Posted November 13, 2022 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted November 13, 2022 5 hours ago, Terry4949 said: Does anyone find that at more or less the same time every day that they get a host of symptoms just come over them I find between the hours of 8.30 to 9.30 in the morning I get a huge wave of symptoms Terry, please note I moved your post onto your intro thread. What you're describing in the morning may be morning cortisol: Early-morning waking - managing the morning cortisol spike While it generally happens several hours earlier than what you're describing, cortisol remains higher in the mornings, decreasing throughout the day and into the evening. Of course, with withdrawal, cortisol rushes can happen more unpredictably and more frequently. Also, if you're having breakfast around that time, your body may be hyper-reacting to the stress of digestion. It's good that this wave of symptoms only lasts for only an hour (although I know you're struggling with symptoms throughout the day and night). Link to comment
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