Kristine: not alone

[Kristine]

Thank you for your time Alto....

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

This must be a new form. People using dispersible tablets of other drugs easily make liquids from them. This selection from a pharma tech manual indicates a liquid made from Prozac tablets would last for weeks.

I filled the script yesterday, but haven't started it yet.  They are "Lovan* 20mg scored dispersible tablets"...my GP said they are mainly prescribed to paediatric patients to get a lower dose. Had to bite my tongue.

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

However, as you're taking 20mg Prozac now, you might do better transitioning to liquid with 10mg capsules or half a dispersible tablet plus liquid. In the US, to get two forms of drug covered by insurance, the doctor would have to write the prescription as divided doses in non-standard dosages, such as "10mg in a.m., 8mg in p.m." Otherwise, the insurance company will insist that the patient take a cheaper 20mg capsule or two 10mg capsules in divided doses.

Would it be ok to transition/crossover using my exsisting 20mg Prozac capsules?  I was going open the capsules and make my own liquid.  I have about 30 capsules left.  Chessiecat suggested a six day plan to do this. 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

What is your symptom pattern now? Does anything tend to happen at the same time each day over several days? An account showing when you take your drugs interleaved with symptoms and any other germane information would be helpful.

The following is my general pattern for the past 3 days..yes there is a pattern.

• Every night vivid dreams and restless sleep. 3-5 hours sleep. Wake drenched in sweat but only wet PJ's..not sheets (better than before Prozac drop) wake with mild anxiety (ache in chest). Feel queasy. Extreme muscular weakness and fatigue (all day). Wake with low mood which continues throughout day. 
• 7am.  Medication - Fluoxetine 20mg, dexamphetamine 3.75mg, clonazepam 0.125mg
• 8am decreased appetite (again) 
• 9am  loose stools.  Bed, unable to stand for long, queasiness turns into nausea.  
• 10am - 12pm headache, clammy hands and feet. Mild tremor in hands 
• 1pm Medication - dexamphetamine 2.5mg, clonazepam 0.125mg
• 2pm loose stools...headache and anxiety (tightness in chest, breathing difficulties, churning stomachs, clawing insides) ramp up in intensity..burning skin, muscular pain increases. 
• 3pm-5pm shivering (need to turn on electric blanket - it's summer here!).  Buzzing feeling in body and brain, pins and needles in palms of hands.
• 6pm - 9pm.  Anxiety decreases back to mild ache in chest, nausea decreases slightly. Acid reflux (haven't had this symtom for a long time)...apple cider vinegar helps a little. Headache eases.
• 10pm - Medication clonazepam 0.125mg
• eventually sleep around 2am...acid reflux has been an issue. Try to sleep propped up.

if sitting in a chair I tap my foot continually. If in bed I will continually rub one or both feet against the sheet.  I need to focus, to stop myself doing it.  Inner restlessness.  Continue to be hypersensitive to all stimuli. 

 

Love K 

 

[Kristine]

2 hours ago, wantrelief said:

I am so sorry you are not doing well, Kristine....in survival mode as you so aptly put it.  I just wanted you to know that I am thinking about you and hoping you get to a better place very soon.  

Thank you WR, Your thoughts are very precious to me. Love K xo

[Kristine]

2 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

And hugs and the tea of your choice in your favorite cuppa.  I last left off where you had said you had a hard time putting all your symptoms out here, on line I think you meant.  I often had a hard time just putting them anywhere........during the worst of them.  So I think I get that.  For me anyway........it just made them worse, especially as far as the downer/negative thinking neuroemotions.

Feel free to just post some happy stuff if it helps.  And certainly do the best you can with some basic self care.  Hygiene.......just a bit.  Eating.......best you can.

Thank you MMT,  yes...I do have a hard time writing my symptoms online..I think I feel like it gives the symptoms more power somehow...I don't know.  Sounds like you felt the same. Writing them in my journal is different...maybe because I'm not pushing a submit button!  I've also never been on a forum, all new to me.  I just had a shower at 5:30pm, does that count? I'm eating but never know what to eat.  Wasted time staring in the fridge. One thing I do enjoy which eases the nausea a touch is lemonade icy poles.  My limit is two a day cause of the sugar!   I hope you had a lovely time with your Mum, I'll drop by your thread when I'm able. Hugs to you. K xo

[Kristine]

8 minutes ago, Longestroadhome said:

 

22 hours ago, Kristine said:

 

One member? Richard 

I am not a poisonous person

after this I am very close to leaving myself.  After reading this I have broken down.  Please leave me alone.

If you go anywhere I am coming after you. Can you block a certain someone who seems intent on causing you trouble? Your advise and kindness is beautiful and most treasured by me and others. 

 

Thank you Lovely LRH,  Everytime a kind word is spoken to me the tears start! You are such a beautiful person. I'm not going anywhere. Just another of life's hiccups. It will be okay. Love K xo

[manymoretodays]

Hey no worries Kristine on replies.  Yes.....it was great, my vacation/family visit/celebration.  I'm regretting that I didn't stay longer and have a bit more overlap with my sisters.  My brother and his wife didn't stay long as they are doing a car tour of sorts.  I'll see them soon here.

 

9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Kristine, from your symptom pattern, I suspect the dexamphetamine also.

 

Since you reduced your Prozac dose on Jan 31, given Prozac's long half-life, it's taken a while for your system to feel the full effect of the reduction. It may very well be that with the Prozac halved, your system has to make a different adjustment to the other drugs you're taking. That's how I'd interpret the nausea -- something that wasn't bothering you before is now hitting your system harder. The timing suggests the dexamphetamine.

 

Urgh.  Me too.  As far as the dexamphetamine now causing at least some of your symptoms.  And of course a great explanation of possible reasons for that by Alto!

 

And I can sure relate to that overwhelming fatigue, as well as some of the muscular pain/weakness, buzzing brain as well...........I had that really bad for awhile, having had that great multiple drugging experience myself.  I had times where I would take just a regular bath and poop on out before I was really finished.  I would just head on back to bed.  So yes.  A shower at 5:30 is super?  And lemonade icy pole!!  Awesome.  Do you have lemon teas as well?  I still limit sugar and use honey for most sweetening needs.  I just generally wind up more fatigued/less healthy energy after sugar stuff.  Got a bit hooked on cake(s) lately.  I will nip that one in the bud.

 

Good job on the journaling too.  Just writing them down DOES NOT give symptoms more power........yet of course I do know what you mean.  Let's just figure it adds to HEALING power instead.

 

Alrighty and best, best, best.....

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

mmt

[Downbutnotout]

So sorry for writing that stuff on your thread. I hope you feel better soon! 

[JustCallMeJane]

 

10 hours ago, Kristine said:

Thank you MMT,  yes...I do have a hard time writing my symptoms online..I think I feel like it gives the symptoms more power somehow...I don't know.  Sounds like you felt the same. Writing them in my journal is different...maybe because I'm not pushing a submit button!  I've also never been on a forum, all new to me.  I just had a shower at 5:30pm, does that count? I'm eating but never know what to eat.  Wasted time staring in the fridge. One thing I do enjoy which eases the nausea a touch is lemonade icy poles.  My limit is two a day cause of the sugar!   I hope you had a lovely time with your Mum, I'll drop by your thread when I'm able. Hugs to you. K xo

 

I was taught a long time ago, by one of the few pdocs worth anything, that by acknowledging something painful in your life it takes the power away from it and gives it back to you. I may not always believe in that thought process, but occasionally it seems to work. 

 

 

 

[JustCallMeJane]

On 2/12/2018 at 5:42 AM, nz11 said:

!!

Well this is unsubstantiated you have given no evidence for this. 

Okay i give up, name not some but one member who has not returned because of a comment by me and i'll humbly apologise to the house if not then this would then be a false allegation. And a rather poisonous one at that. 

 

nz11

Some people say knowledge is power.

Others say only applied knowledge is power.

 

 

Personally, I find you abrasive and intrusive. Your intentions may be good, however, your delivery is harsh, judgemental and in my opinion disrespectful. Just because you preface your comments with "no disrespect intended" does not give you carte blanche for making the poster feel more isolated during withdrawal. It is a stressful period without feeling like they have to defend their actions, choices or thoughts. Even your comment after your signoff is obnoxious and patronizing, and quite honestly unnecessary. 

 

To be honest, I hadn't even seen this response as I had blocked you. However, Kristine has become a friend, and I felt the need to speak up. 

[Altostrata]

I have communicated to nz the need to provide support in a more friendly, less contentious manner. He understands completely. If you should "meet" him in another thread, please allow him the opportunity to show his good side.

 

Please let's return this topic to Kristine and solving her drug puzzle.

[GentleSteps]

16 hours ago, Kristine said:

Thank you MMT,  yes...I do have a hard time writing my symptoms online..I think I feel like it gives the symptoms more power somehow...I don't know.  Sounds like you felt the same. Writing them in my journal is different...maybe because I'm not pushing a submit button!  I've also never been on a forum, all new to me.  I just had a shower at 5:30pm, does that count? I'm eating but never know what to eat.  Wasted time staring in the fridge. One thing I do enjoy which eases the nausea a touch is lemonade icy poles.  My limit is two a day cause of the sugar!   I hope you had a lovely time with your Mum, I'll drop by your thread when I'm able. Hugs to you. K xo

Hello Dear Kristine!  Sending you a warm (but gentle) hug from the northern hemisphere.  "Staring in the fridge" - I can relate to that!  I think it's a "symptom" that might be nicknamed "eating bewilderment"?  I have it, in spades.

 

The nausea sounds like a bear -  - I'm so sorry.  My go-to remedy for nausea is fresh ginger shot - liquid ginger root, raw.  It requires some labor - less if you have a blender or a juicer.  May be too much work the way you're feeling now, but if hubby is back perhaps he could help   (If it's too strong you can mix in juice or water.  (Not recommended if you're on blood thinners though.)) 

 

It is amazing how articulate you remain in the midst of such turmoil, dear Lady.  Spot on about not empowering symptoms.  It's been expressed to me as not "energizing" feelings, thought-loops and "old tapes."  A mantra clear as crystal, not always easy to put into action!  Not pressing a "submit" button is a simple and great technique.  That said, never be shy to PM.

 

You are definitely NOT alone!

 

xx GS

[Kristine]

9 hours ago, Downbutnotout said:

So sorry for writing that stuff on your thread. I hope you feel better soon! 

Nothing to be sorry for D!  I'll drop by your thread when I'm able...I'm hoping you have at least had an okay day. Love K xo

[Kristine]

6 hours ago, JustCallMeJane said:

I was taught a long time ago, by one of the few pdocs worth anything, that by acknowledging something painful in your life it takes the power away from it and gives it back to you. I may not always believe in that thought process, but occasionally it seems to work. 

I think you are right Jane.  Acknowledging the symptom/emotional pain is vital.  I find this takes the power away.  The problem I find is when I am writing my symptoms on SA, I start to feel my anxiety rising.  Maybe partly because I have to make each symptom easily understood for whoever is reading it...so I have to delve into the feeling/ physical symptom..."what does this feel like?", "how do I put this into words?" (Not an easy task with brain fog)...in doing so I am paying more attention to it than I normally would.  Feeding it somehow.  It's not a negative.  It is a necessary process.  Keeping a record of my symptoms is essential and hopefully helpful to others. I've noticed earlier on in my thread that I'd post a symtom once...and not repeat it, even though I am suffering from it every day! For example, muscular pain or headache.  Not sure if that made any sense! Hugs and thank you for your all your support. Love K xo

[RealMe]

3 minutes ago, Kristine said:

I think you are right Jane.  Acknowledging the symptom/emotional pain is vital.  I find this takes the power away.  The problem I find is when I am writing my symptoms on SA, I start to feel my anxiety rising.  Maybe partly because I have to make each symptom easily understood for whoever is reading it...so I have to delve into the feeling/ physical symptom..."what does this feel like?", "how do I put this into words?" (Not an easy task with brain fog)...in doing so I am paying more attention to it than I normally would.  Feeding it somehow.  It's not a negative.  It is a necessary process.  Keeping a record of my symptoms is essential and hopefully helpful to others. I've noticed earlier on in my thread that I'd post a symtom once...and not repeat it, even though I am suffering from it every day! For example, muscular pain or headache.  Not sure if that made any senc

Hi Kristine,

I'm finding it difficult to journal as well because it feels like complaining which makes me feel worse.  I have to find a balance between keeping track of symptoms and not making them worse by dwelling on them.  As far as acknowledging a symptom causing emotional pain, one of the tinnitus writers I've studied recommends actively meditating on the noise.  He claims that you will inevitably become distracted, giving the noise less emotional importance.

You always make a lot of sense!

xo RM

[Kristine]

2 hours ago, GentleSteps said:

18 hours ago, Kristine said:

Thank you MMT,  yes...I do have a hard time writing my symptoms online..I think I feel like it gives the symptoms more power somehow...I don't know.  Sounds like you felt the same. Writing them in my journal is different...maybe because I'm not pushing a submit button!  I've also never been on a forum, all new to me.  I just had a shower at 5:30pm, does that count? I'm eating but never know what to eat.  Wasted time staring in the fridge. One thing I do enjoy which eases the nausea a touch is lemonade icy poles.  My limit is two a day cause of the sugar!   I hope you had a lovely time with your Mum, I'll drop by your thread when I'm able. Hugs to you. K xo

Hello Dear Kristine!  Sending you a warm (but gentle) hug from the northern hemisphere.  "Staring in the fridge" - I can relate to that!  I think it's a "symptom" that might be nicknamed "eating bewilderment"?  I have it, in spades.

 

The nausea sounds like a bear -  - I'm so sorry.  My go-to remedy for nausea is fresh ginger shot - liquid ginger root, raw.  It requires some labor - less if you have a blender or a juicer.  May be too much work the way you're feeling now, but if hubby is back perhaps he could help   (If it's too strong you can mix in juice or water.  (Not recommended if you're on blood thinners though.)) 

 

It is amazing how articulate you remain in the midst of such turmoil, dear Lady.  Spot on about not empowering symptoms.  It's been expressed to me as not "energizing" feelings, thought-loops and "old tapes."  A mantra clear as crystal, not always easy to put into action!  Not pressing a "submit" button is a simple and great technique.  That said, never be shy to PM.

Hello Dear GentleSteps, Thank you for the hug!  LOL "eating bewilderment" indeed!  Yes, the nausea is a bear and I'm so sorry you suffer from this as well.  Ginger is my friend also.  There is a permanent pack of uncrystallised ginger next to my bed.  And I tend to sip on naturally fermented ginger beer through the day.  I also have a chia tea with big chunks of dried ginger.  Haven't made my own extract from fresh ginger. Maybe this would be better? I don't have a juicer...maybe grate it and squeeze out the juice in a muslin cloth? I Also rub peppermint oil (in a carrier oil) in a clockwise direction on my tummy.  Peppermint oil in a diffuser is usually running at least 4 hours a day in my bedroom because it also helps with the headaches and migraines.

 

Thank you for the "articulate" compliment 🙂 At least with posting I can stop mid-sentence and ponder.  Takes me ages to write a post! If I'm talking to someone...oh dear..not great.  I always loose my train of thought, can't find the word I'm after (thing and thingo are frequently used)...so short, simple sentences with a lot of ummmmm's and ahhhh's are a daily  struggle!  Also thank you for all the information about connections and the author Hati.  How are you my friend? Love K xo

[Kristine]

1 hour ago, Longestroadhome said:

I picked some flowers for you this morning dear K 🌺🌻🌸🌷🌹💐🌺🌻

I love flowers! Thank you LRH, I'm a luck girl! Now I just need to find my virtual vase. Hugs K xo

[Kristine]

14 minutes ago, RealMe said:

27 minutes ago, Kristine said:

I think you are right Jane.  Acknowledging the symptom/emotional pain is vital.  I find this takes the power away.  The problem I find is when I am writing my symptoms on SA, I start to feel my anxiety rising.  Maybe partly because I have to make each symptom easily understood for whoever is reading it...so I have to delve into the feeling/ physical symptom..."what does this feel like?", "how do I put this into words?" (Not an easy task with brain fog)...in doing so I am paying more attention to it than I normally would.  Feeding it somehow.  It's not a negative.  It is a necessary process.  Keeping a record of my symptoms is essential and hopefully helpful to others. I've noticed earlier on in my thread that I'd post a symtom once...and not repeat it, even though I am suffering from it every day! For example, muscular pain or headache.  Not sure if that made any senc

Hi Kristine,

I'm finding it difficult to journal as well because it feels like complaining which makes me feel worse.  I have to find a balance between keeping track of symptoms and not making them worse by dwelling on them.  As far as acknowledging a symptom causing emotional pain, one of the tinnitus writers I've studied recommends actively meditating on the noise.  He claims that you will inevitably become distracted, giving the noise less emotional importance.

You always make a lot of sense!

xo RM

Hey RM, Lovely to hear from you.  I'm not doing very well getting around to other threads at the moment, so I'm hoping you are doing ok since your last taper.  Yes, the balance is important.  I find writing in my journal is a good way to remove the thought and then reduce the likelyhood of dwelling on a symptom.  I've been thinking of trying to formulate some kind of code in my journal (paper) for frequent symptoms....eg * = Headache or # = hand tremor......just because I'm tired of writing the same words over and over.  I think the meditation for tinnitus sounds possibly helpful..  I think maybe it would help to accept and give the tinnitus space and in turn reduce anxiety. Not sure! I hope you are able to give it a go.  Love K xo

[JustCallMeJane]

42 minutes ago, Kristine said:

I think you are right Jane.  Acknowledging the symptom/emotional pain is vital.  I find this takes the power away.  The problem I find is when I am writing my symptoms on SA, I start to feel my anxiety rising.  Maybe partly because I have to make each symptom easily understood for whoever is reading it...so I have to delve into the feeling/ physical symptom..."what does this feel like?", "how do I put this into words?" (Not an easy task with brain fog)...in doing so I am paying more attention to it than I normally would.  Feeding it somehow.  It's not a negative.  It is a necessary process.  Keeping a record of my symptoms is essential and hopefully helpful to others. I've noticed earlier on in my thread that I'd post a symtom once...and not repeat it, even though I am suffering from it every day! For example, muscular pain or headache.  Not sure if that made any sense! Hugs and thank you for your all your support. Love K xo

 

It makes perfect sense to me. I have that issue every time I have to explain symptoms to my doctor. A previous doctor, previous to my Meniere's diagnosis, asked me if I had ringing in the ears. I said no. It wasn't until I had my hearing tested and put in a "soundproof" booth, I found out that I did. You mean there should be no noise at all in here? REALLY? Umm, nope, I heard buzzing sounds. Didn't everybody have those noises? I always considered those noises as "normal". And when my Meniere's is really bad, those buzzes turn into crinkling cellophane noises. Hugs! 

[GentleSteps]

Hallo again Kris, lovely to hear from you.  

 

I hear you (+1000) on the bit about live conversations.  It makes socializing and connecting face to face a wee bit challenging.  As I imagine is the case for you, this is not the way it used to be.  So I invoke the "we're healing" mantra for this aspect of the journey - on behalf of us both (and preemptive apology if I'm making baseless assumptions!)

 

It sounds as though you are in the throes of the post-Prozac cut.  It feels lame to say "be brave," so instead I'll leave you with "be ever so gentle with yourself."  

 

Another hug and lots of healing breezes to you.

 

GS

 

 

 

 

 

~~~~

So you're onto the ginger magic already - of course you are

For the raw juice - Yes, grating fresh (peeled) ginger root (I use a parmesan grater) and straining it through muslin is how I do it as I don't have machinery.  It's a tad laborious with multiple containers etc. - up there with what I'm reading about tapers using liquid titrations and gram scales   - and in our foggy states requires some extra attention not to grate skin!   But - the method works wonderfully and the raw shot is ... like "the juice of life"!  Mixing it with lemon juice, turmeric and bubbly water is also a nice way to drink it.  Your fermented ginger beer sounds wonderful - I've tried "kombucha" recently which I think is a relative ...

 

 

[Kristine]

Hey MMT,  I'm so happy to hear you enjoyed your time with your Mum and family.  

11 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

21 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Kristine, from your symptom pattern, I suspect the dexamphetamine also.

 

Since you reduced your Prozac dose on Jan 31, given Prozac's long half-life, it's taken a while for your system to feel the full effect of the reduction. It may very well be that with the Prozac halved, your system has to make a different adjustment to the other drugs you're taking. That's how I'd interpret the nausea -- something that wasn't bothering you before is now hitting your system harder. The timing suggests the dexamphetamine.

 

Urgh.  Me too.  As far as the dexamphetamine now causing at least some of your symptoms.  And of course a great explanation of possible reasons for that by Alto!

It's all so confusing! What Alto said makes perfect sense.  Soooo.....I'm thinking out loud here...what should I focus on for my next taper?  Stick with Prozac or turn my attention back to the Dex? I'm definitely leaving the clonazepam last. Any thoughts? Pros and Cons for either, I guess. 

11 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

And I can sure relate to that overwhelming fatigue, as well as some of the muscular pain/weakness, buzzing brain as well...........I had that really bad for awhile, having had that great multiple drugging experience myself.  I had times where I would take just a regular bath and poop on out before I was really finished.  I would just head on back to bed. 

You always give me such hope MMT, that these symptoms will ease. I'm so pleased you are through the thick of it and willing to share your experiences.  I am so grateful.

 

Hugs. K xo

[manymoretodays]

Ah yes.  Pros and cons.  Good idea.  And before making additional changes.  I'm sure that you have probably seen it.......in the tapering section.........Taking multiple psych drugs?  I'll include it here on your introduction for further study.  I especially like the lingo......"accelerators and brakes" and much to be appreciated in the first post alone.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/2207-taking-multiple-psych-drugs-which-drug-to-taper-first/

 

Then I ran across this Stimulant Equivalency Table and if you take a look and get down to the bottom(amphetamine salts and dextroamphetamine), I found it of interest the gastric and bladder ph related to excretion and absorption.  I was thinking of your recent lemonade drinking.  Just a hmmm.  And maybe in looking at your notes you might conclude something or other?

 

http://www.uacap.org/uploads/3/2/5/0/3250432/stimulant_equivalency.pdf

 

And then there is my own experience, which again is my own, and may vary, and is not intended as a recommendation.  Might be helpful though.  I definitely recall after rapidly reducing my Lexapro(not Prozac mind you and I had been on it for years), well first off I went from a 5mg. halved tablet(the whole tab was 10mg.) to 4 mg. of the pharmacy made liquid and then even down to 3 mg..........hither nither really.  Not waiting, not having arrived here at survivingantidepressants.  Having only read a bit along the lines of harm reduction approaches to coming off of psychoactive medication.

 

I wound up going voluntarily to the hospital......psychiatric hospital.  Where......they took me completely off of it, Lexapro.  Waited a day or two even to speak with a prescriber, the shrink.  Totally scattered, scared, yet getting the care that only the other inpatients do half decent(in my experience)........oh and some of those "psych techs" were, as always........great.  When I finally saw the shrink he asked the therapist who was in there with me(an office of sorts) to interpet........as I was attempting to give a life history of my psych meds and experiences and all those thoughts in a 1/2 hour meeting or so.  Maybe you know how that goes???  Somebody reading might know how that goes......urgggh, and the places I've been. 

 

Anyway, was offered a benzo or a stimulant......sheesh, maybe both.  I decided to go with the adderal salts, as that was what my outside shrink had been alluding to wanting to use, and I did have an okay relationship with her.  Anyway........long story shortened here, now...........it took a few days of a low dose until miraculously I got some clearing........finally.........of thoughts and just overall comfort.  I left there, the hospital.........on a lower dose than the shrink prescribed of the adderal salts, as well as the Trileptal/oxcarbazepine(I had requested this........my own thoughts were telling me I might be better off with a "brake" as well, and this was my best idea of what I might be able to tolerate for awhile).

 

Anyhow........when finally coming off the adderal first(and keep in mind I had been off the Lexapro then for less than a year).......oh boy howdy(don't even ask?, it's my language lately)....... how I can relate to what you share again here........in your symptom and medication journaling.  I also had all that hypersensitivity to noise and people and everything.......and then almost super sensory hearing of nearby conversations and such.  Oh once I was sitting in a cafe with my dear Sun and completely overheard a conversation at the next table.........the topic was a criticism of using psych meds.  My Sun(son) heard some of that one too though.  Ironic sort of.......very cool though.......as I sure got his support.......my Sun's after that.........on my becoming medication free, or at least a minimal understanding of my whys.

 

And okay.....I'm going to stop here.  Do take a look at the links though.  Hold steady as well.......with that guiding light at the end of the tunnel that we/you will get you through this Kristine, as safely as possible.  And by golly you are doing so super duper here with us........like a mother, I am so very proud of you.

 

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

mmt

 

and oh, sorry.......was using brand names.  Lexapro is escitalopram.  Prozac is fluoxetine.

 

Edited February 14, 2018 by manymoretodays
elaboration, spelling, clarity

[Kristine]

Hey Lovey MMT,  Thank you for your post.  I can relate to so much of what you have been through.  I just wish you never had to suffer all those years of horror.

7 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Ah yes.  Pros and cons.  Good idea.  And before making additional changes.  I'm sure that you have probably seen it.......in the tapering section.........Taking multiple psych drugs?  I'll include it here on your introduction for further study.  I especially like the lingo......"accelerators and brakes" and much to be appreciated in the first post alone.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/2207-taking-multiple-psych-drugs-which-drug-to-taper-first/

If I had found SA earlier I would not have decreased the clonazepam before the dexamphetamine. Isn't hindsight a b****!! So over the past 8 months I eliminated a large chunk of "brakes"...eg. 300mg of Seroquel and 1.125mg of clonazepam.  Not to mention all all the other drugs.  Which I feel has left me with an "imbalance"...my foot firmly on the "accelerator". I'm leaning towards tapering the dexamphetamine next.  Still thinking.

 

7 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Then I ran across this Stimulant Equivalency Table and if you take a look and get down to the bottom(amphetamine salts and dextroamphetamine), I found it of interest the gastric and bladder ph related to excretion and absorption.  I was thinking of your recent lemonade drinking.  Just a hmmm.  And maybe in looking at your notes you might conclude something or other?

 

http://www.uacap.org/uploads/3/2/5/0/3250432/stimulant_equivalency.pdf

Wow...thank you MMT! I've been trying to get my head around this! What I was reading was way to complicated for my mushy brain so thank you so very much for this link!  I wrote the following not so long ago to JS11.....

 

On 05/02/2018 at 3:55 PM, Kristine said:

The dexamphetamine I take is immediate release.  I'm not even sure what the equivalent extended release version is in Australia.   I've been wondering this myself...both the fluoxetine and the clonazepam have a long half life.  The Dex has a approximate half life of of 10 hours (I've also read 4 hours) but then there's all these variables bases on urine pH..so who knows! 

I'll try and copy and paste from your link....."stimulant equivalentcy table" ...dextroamphetamine....."

75% of Adderall dose since “mixed” amphetamines are 3:1 Dextro- verses Levo- enantiomer

Similar pharmacokinetics to Adderall. Note that elimination is variable because rates of excretion and absorption are sensitive to gastric and bladder pH.
Acidic = low absorption & fast excretion /Alkaline = high absorption & low excretion

•Diet high in citrus fruits, vegetables, or dairy products increase urine pH •Diet high in meat products or cranberries can decrease urine pH 

soooooo..lately the acid reflux has returned.  I drink apple cider vinegar daily. However, I have been drinking a larger dose over the past week.  This helps with reflux but will no doubt be altering my gastric pH (not sure about urine) and therefore effecting the absorption of dexamphetamine.  From reading the above it is possible that by drinking ACV, my gastric pH has become more alkaline...increasing the absorption of dexamphetamine into my system and therefore increasing the major interaction with the fluoxetine.  Arrhhh. I'm confusing myself.  Any thoughts? All thoughts welcome! 

 

I've worn myself out! But I'll be writing more about the rest of your post MMT. My heart aches for what you have suffered. I'd like to wrap my arms around and hug you.  You are my beacon of light! Much Love. K xo

[Altostrata]

21 hours ago, Kristine said:

what should I focus on for my next taper?  Stick with Prozac or turn my attention back to the Dex?

 

Depends on your symptom pattern. What happens after you take dexamphetamine? What's your drug schedule?

 

You may need to separate the Prozac and dex dosages by some hours to see what does what.

[Kristine]

Hey Alto, 

45 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

22 hours ago, Kristine said:

what should I focus on for my next taper?  Stick with Prozac or turn my attention back to the Dex?

 

Depends on your symptom pattern. What happens after you take dexamphetamine? What's your drug schedule?

 

You may need to separate the Prozac and dex dosages by some hours to see what does what.

not sure if you saw my previous post...

On 13/02/2018 at 5:18 PM, Kristine said:

Thank you for your time Alto....

I filled the script yesterday, but haven't started it yet.  They are "Lovan* 20mg scored dispersible tablets"...my GP said they are mainly prescribed to paediatric patients to get a lower dose. Had to bite my tongue.

Would it be ok to transition/crossover using my exsisting 20mg Prozac capsules?  I was going open the capsules and make my own liquid.  I have about 30 capsules left.  Chessiecat suggested a six day plan to do this. 

The following is my general pattern for the past 3 days..yes there is a pattern.

• Every night vivid dreams and restless sleep. 3-5 hours sleep. Wake drenched in sweat but only wet PJ's..not sheets (better than before Prozac drop) wake with mild anxiety (ache in chest). Feel queasy. Extreme muscular weakness and fatigue (all day). Wake with low mood which continues throughout day. 
• 7am.  Medication - Fluoxetine 20mg, dexamphetamine 3.75mg, clonazepam 0.125mg
• 8am decreased appetite (again) 
• 9am  loose stools.  Bed, unable to stand for long, queasiness turns into nausea.  
• 10am - 12pm headache, clammy hands and feet. Mild tremor in hands 
• 1pm Medication - dexamphetamine 2.5mg, clonazepam 0.125mg
• 2pm loose stools...headache and anxiety (tightness in chest, breathing difficulties, churning stomachs, clawing insides) ramp up in intensity..burning skin, muscular pain increases. 
• 3pm-5pm shivering (need to turn on electric blanket - it's summer here!).  Buzzing feeling in body and brain, pins and needles in palms of hands.
• 6pm - 9pm.  Anxiety decreases back to mild ache in chest, nausea decreases slightly. Acid reflux (haven't had this symtom for a long time)...apple cider vinegar helps a little. Headache eases.
• 10pm - Medication clonazepam 0.125mg
• eventually sleep around 2am...acid reflux has been an issue. Try to sleep propped up.

if sitting in a chair I tap my foot continually. If in bed I will continually rub one or both feet against the sheet.  I need to focus, to stop myself doing it.  Inner restlessness.  Continue to be hypersensitive to all stimuli. 

 

Love K 

 

 

Nausea was very intense yesterday. On the verge of vomiting. Following the same pattern today (currently 11am) 

 

[Kristine]

Hello All....I was wondering if any kind souls have any advice or words of wisdom about ongoing nausea and food.  I have accepted the nausea...I have tried eliminating foods (eg bread, pasta, dairy) but nothing works, so it is defiantly wd and/or side effect and/or drug interaction related.  I have no energy to prepare meals. My husband has just returned (yippee) but he has been called to our building site +  work pressure. My son has just started a new job.  I need to get nutrition into my body! So my question is......does anyone know of any preprepared foods which are gentle on the stomach but highly nutritious?  If I could I'd make a chicken and vegetable soup from scratch.  Are there any premade high quality soups anyone could recommend? 

Maybe good quality Japanese broth? 

 

Thank you. K xo

[Rosetta]

Kristine,

 

Hoping for some relief for you from your nausea.  Cans of Ensure have a lot of sugar, but might be okay if you took sips throughout the day.  They need to be cold to be palatable.  Yogurt is what I eat a lot.  Plain with honey.  I don't have a lot of ideas for you as you are in Australia, but sometimes I find soup sold in glass jars here, and it's usually a higher quality.  Perhaps apples and carrots would be hard on your stomach, but as far as nutrition goes I like to eat a farmers lunch -- cheese, crackers and a little cured meat (salami, chorizo) with an apple or carrots.  Dried fruit might be a good way to get nutrients if there isn't sulphuric acid in the fruit.  We have freeze dried fruit here.  It is nice mixed into yogurt on on cereal.  Of course, there is cereal.

 

Sending you all the best thoughts, Rosetta

[Kristine]

27 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Hoping for some relief for you from your nausea.  Cans of Ensure have a lot of sugar, but might be okay if you took sips throughout the day.  They need to be cold to be palatable.  Yogurt is what I eat a lot.  Plain with honey.  I don't have a lot of ideas for you as you are in Australia, but sometimes I find soup sold in glass jars here, and it's usually a higher quality.  Perhaps apples and carrots would be hard on your stomach, but as far as nutrition goes I like to eat a farmers lunch -- cheese, crackers and a little cured meat (salami, chorizo) with an apple or carrots.  Dried fruit might be a good way to get nutrients if there isn't sulphuric acid in the fruit.  We have freeze dried fruit here.  It is nice mixed into yogurt on on cereal.  Of course, there is cereal.

Thank you so much Rosetta,  I think the farmers lunch is a good idea.  Nibble on a few things.  I've been eating a few dry crackers for lunch today. Breakfast was a small amount of yogurt and muesli.  Plain white rice with a bit of chicken for dinner last night.  I'm only eating for nutrition not enjoyment.  My husband is going to try and shop around on the way home from work.  He cooks but the men in house require hearty meals which make me want to puke!  I was drinking fruit smoothies with protein powder but can't get them down the hatch at present. I'm drinking lots of fluids. Deglycinated Licorice was recommended by JanCarol...I'll probably need to buy it online from iherb. 

 

Thankyou again and sending you healing thoughts (I wish I could send you more - like a free pass to eternal contentment). Love K xo

 

[Gridley]

Ginger is helpful for nausea.  Do you think you could stomach ginger tea?  Maybe a weak version to see how it sits?

[Kristine]

14 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Ginger is helpful for nausea.  Do you think you could stomach ginger tea?  Maybe a weak version to see how it sits?

Thank you Gridley, yes I can tolerate many forms of ginger (tea, uncrystalized ginger, ginger beer) I sip throughout the day. It helps but not much over the past two days in particular. Love K xo

[mammaP]

Hippocrates soup is really good, I can't remember the exact recipe but if you google there are lots of recipes around. It has been used for thousands of years for illness. It is basically onions, potatoes, celeriac (I cant chop celeriac so use celery), leek and tomatoes. Simmer or slow cooker for at least 2 hours. Blend until smooth while warm. A little sea salt and black pepper and it is delicious. Apparently it is important to be warm not hot or cold for blending.  

 

travel sickness bands are good for nausea, my daughter uses them for morning sickness, they are wristbands that work on pressure points. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by mammaP

[Kristine]

16 minutes ago, mammaP said:

Hippocrates soup is really good, I can't remember the exact recipe but if you google there are lots of recipes around. It has been used for thousands of years for illness. It is basically onions, potatoes, celeriac (I cant chop celeriac so use celery), leek and tomatoes. Simmer or slow cooker for at least 2 hours. Blend until smooth while warm. A little sea salt and black pepper and it is delicious. Apparently it is important to be warm not hot or cold for blending.  

 

travel sickness bands are good for nausea, my daughter uses them for morning sickness, they are wristbands that work on pressure points. 

Thank you MammaP,   I'll see if hubby will whip up a batch.  I managed a small amount of chicken soup tonight...but just feel blah.  Just keeping up the fluids!  I'll give the wristbands a go...at times the nausea is very similar to morning sickness (there are smells I can't tolerate).  Lovely to meet you  K 🌻

[JustCallMeJane]

3 hours ago, mammaP said:

Hippocrates soup is really good, I can't remember the exact recipe but if you google there are lots of recipes around. It has been used for thousands of years for illness. It is basically onions, potatoes, celeriac (I cant chop celeriac so use celery), leek and tomatoes. Simmer or slow cooker for at least 2 hours. Blend until smooth while warm. A little sea salt and black pepper and it is delicious. Apparently it is important to be warm not hot or cold for blending.  

 

travel sickness bands are good for nausea, my daughter uses them for morning sickness, they are wristbands that work on pressure points. 

 

Sounds like something my mom used to make when she got sick. Although, hers didn't have tomatoes. Boring old rice & boiled chicken is great for bland diets. Hoping you're doing better today. HUGS. 

[Marmot]

I hope that you found something to eat.  Some people eat arrowroot cookies, or baked butternut squash when they're nauseous. My family used to do the arrowroot cookies, but I don't know if you have those in Australia.

[Marmot]

You'll get through this. Here's the duck party audio. I'm loading it from my phone, so I hope it worked. They sound like they're laughing. 

ducks

[Kristine]

On 15/02/2018 at 11:12 AM, Kristine said:

Hey Alto, 

On 15/02/2018 at 10:50 AM, Altostrata said:

On 14/02/2018 at 1:13 PM, Kristine said:

what should I focus on for my next taper?  Stick with Prozac or turn my attention back to the Dex?

 

Depends on your symptom pattern. What happens after you take dexamphetamine? What's your drug schedule?

 

You may need to separate the Prozac and dex dosages by some hours to see what does what.

not sure if you saw my previous post...

On 13/02/2018 at 5:18 PM, Kristine said:

Thank you for your time Alto....

I filled the script yesterday, but haven't started it yet.  They are "Lovan* 20mg scored dispersible tablets"...my GP said they are mainly prescribed to paediatric patients to get a lower dose. Had to bite my tongue.

Would it be ok to transition/crossover using my exsisting 20mg Prozac capsules?  I was going open the capsules and make my own liquid.  I have about 30 capsules left.  Chessiecat suggested a six day plan to do this. 

The following is my general pattern for the past 3 days..yes there is a pattern.

• Every night vivid dreams and restless sleep. 3-5 hours sleep. Wake drenched in sweat but only wet PJ's..not sheets (better than before Prozac drop) wake with mild anxiety (ache in chest). Feel queasy. Extreme muscular weakness and fatigue (all day). Wake with low mood which continues throughout day. 
• 7am.  Medication - Fluoxetine 20mg, dexamphetamine 3.75mg, clonazepam 0.125mg
• 8am decreased appetite (again) 
• 9am  loose stools.  Bed, unable to stand for long, queasiness turns into nausea.  
• 10am - 12pm headache, clammy hands and feet. Mild tremor in hands 
• 1pm Medication - dexamphetamine 2.5mg, clonazepam 0.125mg
• 2pm loose stools...headache and anxiety (tightness in chest, breathing difficulties, churning stomachs, clawing insides) ramp up in intensity..burning skin, muscular pain increases. 
• 3pm-5pm shivering (need to turn on electric blanket - it's summer here!).  Buzzing feeling in body and brain, pins and needles in palms of hands.
• 6pm - 9pm.  Anxiety decreases back to mild ache in chest, nausea decreases slightly. Acid reflux (haven't had this symtom for a long time)...apple cider vinegar helps a little. Headache eases.
• 10pm - Medication clonazepam 0.125mg
• eventually sleep around 2am...acid reflux has been an issue. Try to sleep propped up.

if sitting in a chair I tap my foot continually. If in bed I will continually rub one or both feet against the sheet.  I need to focus, to stop myself doing it.  Inner restlessness.  Continue to be hypersensitive to all stimuli. 

 

Love K 

 

 

Nausea was very intense yesterday. On the verge of vomiting. Following the same pattern today (currently 11am) 

 

I been thinking about all of the above and Altos suggestion to seperate the morning doses of Dex and fluoxetine by a few hours.  Due to the peak blood plasma level of dexamphetamine is quicker than fluoxetine the following is my tentative plan for tomorrow...

• Take Dexamphetamine and clonazepam at 6am instead of 7am
• Take fluoxetine 20mg at 10am instead of 7am. (Or maybe 9am?) 

Any thoughts?

love to you all. K xo

[Altostrata]

Kristine, thanks for iterating your symptom pattern.

 

If nausea occurs at the same time each day, it's due to something else you're doing earlier each day.

 

It's very weird to take dexamphetamine and clonazepam at the same time. Did we talk about reducing the morning dexamphetamine? Did you try  this already? What happened?

 

Yes, you can use your current Prozac capsules to phase in the liquid. But maybe reduce the morning dexamphetamine first?

 

 

[Altostrata]

• Quote

   

  • 7am.  Medication - Fluoxetine 20mg, dexamphetamine 3.75mg, clonazepam 0.125mg
  • ....
  • 9am  loose stools.  Bed, unable to stand for long, queasiness turns into nausea.  
  • ....
  • 1pm Medication - dexamphetamine 2.5mg, clonazepam 0.125mg
  • 2pm loose stools...headache and anxiety (tightness in chest, breathing difficulties, churning stomachs, clawing insides) ramp up in intensity..burning skin, muscular pain increases. 

   

That clonazepam-dexamphetamine combo is bad news. Looks to me dex has to go.