Sunflower414: medicated at age 7, now 27

[Rosetta]

Hi Sunflower,

 

H2H is so right!  Your quality of life is the most important thing, and tapering when your system is not stable is what many people do if they feel desperate to get off of the drug.  After we realize the drug harmed us, we become quite anti-drug, but being anti-“rattle the nervous system” is the key.  
 

It’s not the drug itself that’s the problem; it’s taking it away that’s the problem for WD issues.  I hate these drugs, and I wish they had never been invented, but once your system is hooked, you have to play the hand you were dealt.  Slow, steady, stable!  

 

I’m sorry that you had to quit your job.  So did I. It’s great that you can still earn money!  Try to focus your obsessiveness on something that could be fun.

 

🧚🏻‍♀️Rosetta

[getofflex]

10 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

I did do the slow switch. About 5 days in I began vomiting and shaking.

You mean 5 days into starting the switch, or 5 days after you completely transitioned over?  Did you switch over the course of several weeks, or just several days?  

[getofflex]

10 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

If I can find a compounding pharmacy to do dosages like 11.95mg, do you think switching compounding pharmacies needs a slow switch over if they are both pills?
 

No.  

[Happy2Heal]

10 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

We just both don't like being the center of attention and both have weird family dynamics! 

ah weird families, I can relate to that LOL
 yeh it can be tough being the center of attention.

I guess the only potential downside to eloping is no bridal shower...?

 

I would have loved to have thrown one for my daughter but really, they'd been living together as so many ppl do these days and didn't really need or want anything. 

 

it sounds like you went to a nice place if you needed a couple of planes to get there!

that's cool

10 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

My dog is a corgi mix of some kind. He is such a sweet boy. I got him when I was 20 years old and I'll be 30 next week, so he has been a faithful and loyal friend through all these years.

ooh corgis are adorable! have you joined Disapproving Corgis on FB? another person on this site told me about it, it's got some hilarious photos.

anyway I'm glad you've got him as your loyal companion

oh happy birthday early!! 

the big 3-OH!

Funny thing about turning 30, as far as I can tell from where I'm at, which is almost 38 yrs past 30, 

the person you are doesn't really seem to change much from year to year after 30

mentally I still feel like I'm 30. I wish my body felt the same way but really, except for a lot of life experience, nothing much else has changed.

 what are your thoughts on turning 30?

10 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

Before withdrawal, I was a first grade teacher. I absolutely loved it.

oh that is a fun age! my favorite is 5yr olds, so close enough. They are still delighted with the world and life in general but able to be fairly independent.  

 

10 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

It isn't my favorite thing, but it is nice to be able to stay home during this time. I also feel a bit accomplished every day just from logging on! lol 

that is a big accomplishment when you're going thru withdrawal!

10 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

I completely understand. PTSD can be very scary. My biggest symptom is unfortunately intrusive thoughts. I am doing my best to stay positive and to be more patient, but, after many years I can be hard. I hope and pray that I can continue tapering soon but will wait until my body is ready.

do you have a trauma history? withdrawal and PTSD have some overlapping symptoms and many of us include our difficult withdrawals as a kind of trauma. The symptoms are so strange and strong and long lasting, it's hard not to be shaken to your core by what is happening when we taper too quickly or CT or do cold switches or taper the way drs tell us is OK (which clearly is NOT ok for a lot of ppl)

part of the reason I thought I could go faster is that when I was younger, I got off several different psych drugs with no problems- at least, that's what I thought. My life was so chaotic that it took some time to go back over what happened when, from what I could remember and it's highly likely that most of my withdrawal symptoms were misidentified as something else. The older I got and the more of  a drug burden my body had suffered, the more I noticed that things did not go well when stopping some drugs but I never blamed the drug, with one exception (depakote, when I came off that I had horrendous neuropathy in my hands and esp my feet- and I knew stopping it suddenly as directed by the dr)

 

anyway, where was I going with this...? oh intrusive thoughts are bothersome but with a lot of effort they can be overcome

I still have them from time to time, dont' know if it's a hold over from WD recovery or PTSD or just normal (I have read that it's normal to have these from time to time)

I do heavy duty distracting and for me, I need to increase my exposure to bright light. (because my intrusive thoughts are always dark I guess LOL)

but it helps. I will turn on every light in the house (all LED lights so not using a lot of electricity) and some happy music sometimes too. Or go out for a walk if the weather allows.

Having a smart phone helps if I'm in a situation where I can't do other things to distract myself.

 

 

[Happy2Heal]

On 9/6/2023 at 6:38 PM, Sunflower414 said:

I'm SO happy you are back to living life again. That gives me hope. The four years you still had withdrawal, was it more manageable? 

 

well the thing is, I tried to get off of lexapro (one of the strongest SSRIs) several times.

I went off cold turkey in I think 2006? after being on it for about 4 yrs I guess at that point.  I was so sick but had no clue it was withdrawal. couldn't sleep, my heart rate was thru the roof, I had afib episodes, I was put on a beta blocker and a high dose of seroquel and that kept being increased to try to help me sleep. 

It got to the point where I couldn't tolerate being alone. My daughter was very sweet letting me stay with her and her then BF for a few weeks but I knew that couldn't go on, so I went back on the lexapro

feeling defeated, and convinced that I "needed it" to be even remotely ok.

I had been told that lie about my brain chemistry being some how defective..

The withdrawal symptoms never completely stopped from that time on... The dr would increase the dose thinking that was the problem, I would feel worse and insist on lowering it, only to feel new but worse symptoms

At one point my dose was 40 mgs which is a good 10 mg higher than the highest dose the manufacturer said would ever be needed.

in 2012 I tried again to get off the drug because I was sleeping around the clock. My PCP who was my prescriber at that point, insisted that I was depressed and needed to see someone to get another med or change to something else

No I wanted off. I just felt dead inside. By this time I was so fat and sick and never left my house, I knew I needed to do something...

so I rapid tapered thinking at the time that getting off in 3 mos was a SLOW taper

I didn't work

I went back on

and off 

and on and off. I got terrible intrusive thoughts and begged the dr for zyprexa, a drug that had stopped this symptom immediately in the past  (generally because it knocked me out for days at  a time)

It worked, for a few weeks.

When I finally found SA in 2015 I had already essentially been in withdrawal since 2006 off and on.

I never truly stabilized after going back on the drug, I was only able to keep the WD symptoms from overwhelming me.

I got down to 2.5mgs and should have held there for oh, at least a year most likely!! but I got impatient, I was sleeping ok by then and jumped off, as they say, at 2.5mg

Three months later I was in acute withdrawal and had kindled and NOTHING was going to help and nothing did help, quite frankly

I had 2 solid years of utter terror and sleeplessness. during this time I nearly didn't make it. 

 

You'll see in my signature that I reinstated at 0.3mgs I think it was? I started off the reinstatement at 0.1mgs and went up to 0.3mgs

that tiny amt just barely took the edge off of what I was going thru but for me, I needed the psychological boost of thinking it was helping more than it did. I enjoyed the placebo effect. I used what I knew about the placebo affect to get thru things that were excruciatingly difficult. The power of our minds is incredible. I worked hard to use that power to get me thru the roughest days I've ever had in my life.

 

because I knew tha I had kindled and at that point, anything I ingested would either not help or would even go paradoxical (for example taking the PRN I had of klonopin at the time would actually ramp up anxiety instead of calming me down)

so yeh that was terrifying when you know that the only thing you can do is sit tight and wait it out. 

 

 

I looked for things to improve and commented on every single tiny thing that got better

I was determined to focus as much on the positive as I could

because the alternative was simply not helpful to me

 

so, when I say that I am afraid for you, I don't say this lightly

I have never put this part of my story out there, partly because I didn't want to scare anyone and partly because it's so incredible to me that I was in denial about the WD I was experiencing.

I had over 4 decades "In the system". I had been in and out of mental hospitals including the infamous Danvers state hospital. 

 

I believed the BS I'd been told for years and years., THe drs were so adamant that there was no issue in coming off these drugs

even when what i experienced told a totally different story I'd been brainwashed for so long I assumed I was wrong and they were right

 

so my withdrawal from lexapro took me 11 years to get to zero (since my first time going off in 2006) and another 2 years to feel truly good, and even now I am still improving.

I am shocked to see that there are things that I thought were just "me" that are going away and that those things were still remnants of my brain healing. for all I know I will continue to heal over the upcoming years.
I mean come on, my brain was assaulted by these chemicals for over 40 yrs, is it really so surprising that recovering is going to take time?

 

You've been at this withdrawal from paxil since Feb 2021 after doing a drastic cut in dose,

you were on many other drugs in the years leading up to that cut

you successfully got off a benzo. Good job!

 

it may seem like a long time and I don't doubt that you are tired of it all

but really it has not been very long at all!

 

the time is going to pass regardless

 

it's unlikely that when you are totally off you will wake up and be a whole new person

you will still be you, just you no longer taking a drug you don't need and may never have needed

 

your brain will take the time IT needs to fully recover, you can help it by going slow and listening to what it's telling you

or you can ignore it and rush ahead

 

the time is going to pass either way

 

you had no choice about going on this drug

but now you DO have a choice about how to get off it as safely and as comfortably as possible

 

❤️

Edited September 8, 2023 by Happy2Heal

[Happy2Heal]

8 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

I got down to 2.5mgs and should have held there for oh, at least a year most likely!! but I got impatient, I was sleeping ok by then and jumped off, as they say, at 2.5mg

I did this because I was trying to get the liquid prescribed by a dr and they ridiculed me and made me feel so small and stupid

telling me that 2.5 mgs does "nothing"

 

don't listen to drs

don't listen to ANYONE else but your own body and what you are experiencing

 

trust that your body knows what it needs and listen only to that

 

your mom may feel guilty about putting you on this drug at age 7

she was brainwashed like the drs and the vast majority of the population still is

it's not her fault

 

your mom may want you to stay on the drug at a low dose because she thinks that you need it and always did and this would make her feel less guilty

 

but withdrawal symptoms do not need you need this drug, it only means your brain got used to it, made huge changes to accommodate it, and now is being asked to change back

that takes time

the brain works slowly

its got SO much to do

 

give it the time it needs

 

 

[Sunflower414]

Hi all - thanks so much for all the help and suggestions lately.

 

I have decided to take a break from SA. I am finding I am spending too much time on here... I am very impacted by what others say and the hurts and suffering they are going through. When I am doing a bit better, I will return. Of course I understand the woes and suffering but I need to take a break from the suffering. I will be back.

 

By the way. Today, I went outside to check on my tomato plants that haven't been growing too well. I noticed a small little flower randomly growing in the middle of the tomatoes.... it is a sunflower. It was a small sign of hope.

 

I will talk to you all soon ❤️ 

[Altostrata]

On 9/7/2023 at 12:52 PM, Sunflower414 said:

Yes I wish I could @getofflexbut the last time I tried to switch to liquid, I was violently ill. So now I am afraid and nervous to try it again. 

 

Hello, Sunflower. How did you take the liquid last time?

[Sunflower414]

Hi @Altostrata. I did 25% liquid and 75% pill for a week, then 50% and 50%. After that I started feeling really sick. Once I fully switched over I had full blown withdrawal again. The day I switched over back to all pills, it stopped.

[Sunflower414]

I am thinking maybe I will try doing half a percent. I don't want to do that, but since the 1% threw me into such a bad state I'm afraid to go back to a higher percentage for a cut. I was thinking maybe trying a half percent and seeing how that goes and then doing it more often like my original plan. If it is just as bad as the other drops, then I'll just go back to larger drops. Here are the half percentages after 12mg. 

11.94
11.88
11.82
11.76

 

Would this be a better idea than resuming a taper at 2.5% a month? I would ideally do a half percentage every week, but, I am concerned that my body would not have enough time to stabilize between each drop. Does the body not need as long of a hold if it's a smaller drop? 

I look forward to your opinions. 

[Altostrata]

20 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

I did 25% liquid and 75% pill for a week, then 50% and 50%. After that I started feeling really sick.

 

Why not stick with 25% and 75% tablet, taper from the liquid part?

[Sunflower414]

That seems a bit complicated @Altostrata I think I’d rather just take one form and stick with it. I’m not great with the measuring so I think I’d mess it up!
 

has anyone seen my previous post about reductions? 

[Sunflower414]

 am thinking maybe I will try doing half a percent. I don't want to do that, but since the 1% threw me into such a bad state I'm afraid to go back to a higher percentage for a cut. I was thinking maybe trying a half percent and seeing how that goes and then doing it more often like my original plan. If it is just as bad as the other drops, then I'll just go back to larger drops. Here are the half percentages after 12mg. 

11.94
11.88
11.82
11.76

 

Would this be a better idea than resuming a taper at 2.5% a month? I would ideally do a half percentage every week, but, I am concerned that my body would not have enough time to stabilize between each drop. Does the body not need as long of a hold if it's a smaller drop? 

I look forward to your opinions. 

[Sunflower414]

@Altostrata do you know if the liquid is different whether it’s from a drugstore (cvs) or from a compounding pharmacy?

[Altostrata]

You can taper as slowly as you wish, keeping the total reduction no more than 10% per month is fairly safe.

[Sunflower414]

Thanks @Altostrata

do you know if the liquid is different whether it’s from a drugstore (cvs) or from a compounding pharmacy?

[Sunflower414]

Switched to liquid 12mg. It’s been a week. Will hold 1-2 more weeks before tapering. 

[getofflex]

On 10/4/2023 at 10:24 PM, Sunflower414 said:

do you know if the liquid is different whether it’s from a drugstore (cvs) or from a compounding pharmacy?

It should the same.  

[Sunflower414]

3 hours ago, getofflex said:

It should the same.  

I am responding very different to the liquid from the compounding pharmacy compared to the liquid I previously got from CVS. The pharmacist at the compounding pharmacy said the two will be very different. The liquid from the compounding pharmacy is made from the exact powder as the tablets. The liquid from the manufacturer that you would receive at a drug store is made differently for shelf life stability and it is not the same as the tablets. Interesting to note.

[getofflex]

The active ingredient should be the same, and the bioavailability should be the same.  The commercially available product will probably have stabilizing agents in it that the compounded one will not.  However, the active ingredients and the bioavailability should be very close to the same, but there could be up to a 10% difference.  Since your nervous system is very sensitive, this could be throwing you off.  I would suggest holding for a while until your nervous system adjusts to this.   It could also be that the change in seasons may be affecting you - it is affecting me at this time.  I'll be thinking of you and praying for you.  

[Sunflower414]

Thank you @getofflex how are you doing? 
 

I am currently feeling like this taper is pointless. I’ve suffered a lot in the last two years, and only went down less than 2mg. What do you do when you don’t know how to move forward? Thanks all 

[getofflex]

Hi sunflower, I'm doing pretty well, all things considered.  

 

8 minutes ago, Sunflower414 said:

I’ve suffered a lot in the last two years, and only went down less than 2mg.

I can relate to this.  I suffered a lot in the 5 years it took me to do my taper, but I'm really glad I did the taper as suggested by this site, or I would have suffered a lot more.  Some days, I still suffer.  My brain is still healing from Lexapro.  

 

Can you explain what you mean by "don't know how to move forward"?  

 

Sometimes, it's just a matter of doing what is in front of you, doing the next right thing, and just taking things a day at a time, or even a moment at a time, when things get really tough.  Prayer and developing my spiritual life and relationship with God really helps a lot.  That is my main coping technique.  

 

I have the gift of perseverance, so when I make up my mind to do something, I find a way to do it, no matter how difficult it is, or how long it takes.  Most things that are really worth something involve struggle and suffering, in my own opinion.  

Edited October 28, 2023 by getofflex

[Sunflower414]

I’m glad you’re hanging in there and doing okay 🤍 have you had any great windows?

 

thank you for the advice. It’s hard to do one day at a time when you just want your life back. I’m sure you can relate.

 

as far as moving forward.. I just don’t know. Do I continue to taper? Slower, faster? Accept I cannot get off? Try going back to the tablets or wait to see if I can stabilize on the liquid? I feel like there are never any good answers for me. It gives me a trapped feeling. 
 

I am only still here today because I know God has a plan for my life. But some days, I wish He would just take the pain away from me. Or tell me that all this will be worth it in the end. 
 

 

[getofflex]

Well I would not taper faster, if I were you.  If it were me, I would wait and stabilize on the liquid.  Jumping back on the tablets is another drug change, and will put you at risk of making your WD worse.  Making frequent changes to our drugs puts us at high risk of destabilizing our nervous systems.  Our nervous systems crave stability and sameness.  Give yourself some time to get used to your current liquid.  You are currently on the liquid from the compounding pharmacy, right?   

 

This process is extremely long, and difficult, and will test the patience of anyone.  

 

Do you ever read any of the success stories?  They are on the home page of this site.  I do believe this will all be worth it in the end.  

Edited October 28, 2023 by getofflex

[Sunflower414]

Thank you @getofflex you are always so kind and helpful. I am so grateful for you. 
 

I just fear I won’t be able to stabilize on the liquid, but it could be I am thinking that right now because I am in bad shape. It is the liquid from the compounding pharmacy, yes. 
 

I have read the success stories. I haven’t in awhile.My first year after joining SA I read them all. Maybe I need to visit them again 

[getofflex]

When we are when withdrawal, we tend to catastrophize and imagine the worst. You will stabilize on this new liquid. It just may take some time. Yes, go ahead and revisit the success stories it can really help a lot.

[Sunflower414]

Thanks @getofflex🤍

 

Today is day 11 of the liquid and I am still doing very poorly. Is this normal or a sign it won’t work for me, or is it normal to have to wait to feel stable again? It feels similar to symptoms when I was switching medications completely. 

[getofflex]

From working with you for a long time, I have noticed that your nervous system is extra sensitive.  When you switched the liquids, did you do so all at once, or gradually over several weeks?  And, was your most recent switch from the pill to the liquid, or from the commercial liquid to the liquid from the compounding pharmacy?  

 

I don't think it is a sign that this liquid won't work for you.  Any drug change, which includes dosage change, manufacturer change, form change (solid vs liquid) is a shock to a sensitized nervous system, and can take a long time to stabilize.  

 

In your part of the world (and mine) there is a major shift in seasons going on, and this could be affecting you as well.  There could be other factors that are affecting your CNS as well.  Seasonal changes and weather changes affect me.  Are you drinking any alcohol, using any other mood altering substances, changes in diet or exercise or any other changes? 

 

Please give this some time, and please read, 

 

Considerations About Stability

 

and 

 

Keep it Simple, Slow, and Stable

Edited October 29, 2023 by getofflex

[Sunflower414]

From working with you for a long time, I have noticed that your nervous system is extra sensitive.  When you switched the liquids, did you do so all at once, or gradually over several weeks?  And, was your most recent switch from the pill to the liquid, or from the commercial liquid to the liquid from the compounding pharmacy?  

The last time I tried over a year ago, I did it slowly. This time I switched fully over. My pharmacist said he wouldn't want me on the pills and the liquid because they metabolize differently in the bloodstream or something? I'm not too sure I understood completely. This time I went from the compounded tablet to the compounded liquid. 

 

I don't think it is a sign that this liquid won't work for you.  Any drug change, which includes dosage change, manufacturer change, form change (solid vs liquid) is a shock to a sensitized nervous system, and can take a long time to stabilize.  

Thanks @getofflex for your opinion. I have read a few places on here that people had to go back to the tablets because the liquid didn't agree with them and caused a ton of withdrawal. Now that I'm 11 days in, I'm thinking it may be better to wait it out? But it's so hard to say. I think tapering the liquid would be a better option for me with the smaller cuts which was my reasoning for switching in the first place. But if I can't stabilize on it or my body doesn't agree with the liquid, Idk. 

 

In your part of the world (and mine) there is a major shift in seasons going on, and this could be affecting you as well.  There could be other factors that are affecting your CNS as well.  Seasonal changes and weather changes affect me.  Are you drinking any alcohol, using any other mood altering substances, changes in diet or exercise or any other changes? 

We are having weather changes. I am not doing anything else. I do not drink alcohol, I eat a keto diet strict which I have for a long time, and nothing else has really changed.

 

I will read those links now ❤️ 

 

 

[getofflex]

16 minutes ago, Sunflower414 said:

The last time I tried over a year ago, I did it slowly. This time I switched fully over. My pharmacist said he wouldn't want me on the pills and the liquid because they metabolize differently in the bloodstream or something? I'm not too sure I understood completely. This time I went from the compounded tablet to the compounded liquid. 

I'm confused by this answer.  

 

So, you went from a compounded tablet, to a compounded liquid?  Did you switch abruptly (all at once), or switch gradually, over several days or weeks?  Exactly how did you do the switch? 

 

As I said, I believe you will stabilize on the liquid.  Switching back again to the pill form would put you at risk of even further destabilization.  

[Sunflower414]

Sorry.

 

So, you went from a compounded tablet, to a compounded liquid?  Did you switch abruptly (all at once), or switch gradually, over several days or weeks?  Exactly how did you do the switch? 

Yes, correct. I went from a compound tablet to a compound liquid all at once because the pharmacist said I shouldn't mix pills with liquid because they metabolize differently. 

[getofflex]

OK, then this is probably a big part of the problem.  We on this site believe that is is OK, and preferable, to change over gradually, as I believe I've explained to you before.  But, now that you've made the switch almost 2 weeks ago, I would suggest staying on the liquid.  Making switch after switch will put you at risk of further symptoms.  Have you looked at my links above about stability?  

 

I believe that your problem isn't the liquid, it is the fact that you made a sudden switch from solid to liquid.  Please be sure and take precisely the same dose, at the same time each day, not missing any doses, and you should stabilize.  And then, I would suggest that you try not to make any drug changes for a while.  (This includes changing the dose, changing the manufacturer, changing the form, etc.)

 

I took the liberty of making it clear in your signature that you went from tablet to liquid in your signature, for future reference.  

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by getofflex

[Sunflower414]

OK, then this is probably a big part of the problem.  We on this site believe that is is OK, and preferable, to change over gradually, as I believe I've explained to you before.  But, now that you've made the switch almost 2 weeks ago, I would suggest staying on the liquid.  Making switch after switch will put you at risk of further symptoms.  Have you looked at my links above about stability?  

Thank you getofflex. The pharmacist insisted that he could not recommend me taking liquid and tablets together but now I see that he probably doesn't understand how sensitive I am. Thanks for the information. I did read the link on stability. I will do my best to not change anything and make sure I am measuring correctly. Thank you for this information. 

 

I believe that your problem isn't the liquid, it is the fact that you made a sudden switch from solid to liquid.  Please be sure and take precisely the same dose, at the same time each day, not missing any doses, and you should stabilize.  And then, I would suggest that you try not to make any drug changes for a while.  (This includes changing the dose, changing the manufacturer, changing the form, etc.)

That does make sense. I was told that it wouldn't cause any difference because it was the same powder made at the same compounding pharmacy, so that they would be the exact same. I will focus on stabilizing and not make any changes for quite some time. Maybe I will wait until after the holidays? Would this be a good length to hold or what would SA suggest?

 

 then try to do a very very conservative version of brass monkey?

 

I took the liberty of making it clear in your signature that you went from tablet to liquid in your signature, for future reference.  

Thank you getofflex ❤️ 

 

 

[Sunflower414]

Is this math correct? I want to make sure I’m measuring correctly. Or does anyone have an easy way to do this?

 

the bottle says 2.4ml=12mg 

[getofflex]

Yes, your math is correct.  

[SwedishDespair]

On 5/30/2021 at 4:52 AM, Sunflower414 said:

Hi all. I’m thankful I came across this group. 
 

Much love, 

Sunflower414

Hi. I'm much older, swedish male, who was put on Paxil some years into my 20's. I have had it bad, but it grieves me to read about people

that got prescribed pills like this so so young. I'm not a barer of good fortune or knowledge. But I want to tell you, Paxil is harmful, and tapering and eventually stopping,

will bring many 'new' things to you. NOTE: not all of them are bad.

You might, of course I cannot tell, have many positive effects from stopping, but at times, even the positives can scare you.

 

I hope you have read alot of what others have experienced, because alot of it involves 'simple human emotions'.

Emotions are good, it is Paxil that is bad.

 

My opinion says: "That to bereave a young person, the ability to, for better or worse. Develop him or her self, emotionally, below the age of 18.

Is among the most evil human can do to eachother"

 

And when it comes to Paxil, and what it can hide/obscure/distort, almost nothing is off the table.

 

I sincerely hope you can fight through whatever obstacles might come.