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Apathy, anhedonia, emotional numbness, emotional anesthesia


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16 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi 1Day-- that was many years ago so the memories are getting faint.  As I recall there wasn't much discussion of PSSD at Prior Place. As for anhedonia, most of the success stories I ran into talked about regaining their emotions.  Personally I had a lot of anhedonia during my paxil use and taper, but as I tapered off my emotions slowly reappeared and by the time I made the jump to "0" it wasn't a problem any more.

Thank you Brassmonkey.  I did not do a proper slow taper because I was not aware of this site.  I finally managed to come off the SSRI over the course of a year but with big jumps cutting down say from 20mg to 15mg and so on.  When I was on a very low dose I started to have periods where PSSD and emotional numbing resolved and this continued during the first few weeks I was off the drug (windows of two or three days where I was pretty much back to normal).  But then 5 weeks after I was off the drug, everything went very bad and I have been suffering with PSSD and emotional numbing ever since.  Because I was starting to get back to normal whilst still on the drug, I don't know whether to consider my symptoms now as continuing adverse reactions, or as withdrawal symptoms?  Do you think because of those periods I had where I was back to normal, it is a good sign I will recover eventually?  I am exactly 3 years off the drug now.

Escitalopram for anxiety (dates below are approximate).

 

Oct 09 - Apr 10, 20mg (tapered off over about 6 weeks). 

Jun 10 - Feb 11, 20mg (tapered off over about 6 weeks). 

Jun 11 - Aug 12, 20mg (started to taper off but failed). 

Oct 12 - Dec 13, 20mg.  Dec 13 - Apr 14, 10mg.  Apr 14 - Nov 14, 5mg. 

Nov 14 - Jan 16, 20mg.  Jan 16 - Aug 16, 10mg.  Aug 16 - Dec 16, 10mg every other day.  Dec 16 - Jan 17 5mg every third day.  Jan 17 - took last tablet.

 

 

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I wish someone would comment on my species of anhedonia, particularly the agitation type mental tightness that prevents watching, listening and reading etc.

 

I’ve called it out as mental akathasia and keep waiting for it to become full blown paving around etc.

 

Thank you

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

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1Day-- Coming off of 20mg in only  a year is a very fast taper and will cause a reaction very similar to a CT. The flashes of improvement in your symptoms before making the jump were probably just your body trying to understand and cope with what was happening to it.  Once you were completely off your body could understand it's situation and make the reaction that it did.  For a CT the fourth year is frequently marked with some good improvements in the symptom levels. The emotional numbing should start showing some signs of improving.  PSSD is such and intricate and personal symptom it is very hard to make any call on it.  It could clear up tomorrow or it could drag on for quite some time.  Like I said there are just to many factors involved to try and make a call. We do have many members here who can attest to the fact that it will eventually clear up.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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13 hours ago, Snorky said:

I wish someone would comment on my species of anhedonia, particularly the agitation type mental tightness that prevents watching, listening and reading etc.

 

I’ve called it out as mental akathasia and keep waiting for it to become full blown paving around etc.

 

Thank you

Snorky,

There is nothing to comment on. We don't know what's happening in your specific body. We have limited knowledge overall. Commenting is not going to make things better for you. 

 

What you are doing by constantly asking about specific symptoms is called reassurance seeking in OCD and it exacerbates OCD symptoms. You really need to look into CBT urgently. None of us here are equipped to treat your specific symptoms. 

 

Find yourself a CBT therapist  specialised in OCD. It will help with some of these behaviors. 

"Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. 

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering)

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

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1 hour ago, Onmyway said:

Snorky,

There is nothing to comment on. We don't know what's happening in your specific body. We have limited knowledge overall. Commenting is not going to make things better for you. 

 

What you are doing by constantly asking about specific symptoms is called reassurance seeking in OCD and it exacerbates OCD symptoms. You really need to look into CBT urgently. None of us here are equipped to treat your specific symptoms. 

 

Find yourself a CBT therapist  specialised in OCD. It will help with some of these behaviors. 

Thanks. Just wondered if anyone had experienced these symptoms?

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

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4 hours ago, Snorky said:

Thanks. Just wondered if anyone had experienced these symptoms?

Yes, if you look into the various forums you will see that people have experienced all of the symptoms you report. That's fairly easy to find out.

"Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. 

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering)

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

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20 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

Yes, if you look into the various forums you will see that people have experienced all of the symptoms you report. That's fairly easy to find out.

Thanks. Did look, but couldn’t find that species of anhedonia/mental akathasia.

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Snorky said:

Thanks. Did look, but couldn’t find that species of anhedonia/mental akathasia.

Snorky, 

there is no species of it and it is really not important which one you have, if there had been various species of it. Classifying it doesn't help with absolutely anything. There might not be a person who has had the exact symptoms you've had - there are plenty of people who can't watch TV for a while, there are plenty of people who want to get out of their skins in response to something, there are plenty of people who have rage at seemingly simple things. I've had ALL of them. Calling it anhedonia or akathisia or some other medical term is not going to change it. 

 

Asking if someone has had the exact same experience is as useless as asking someone with food poisoning whether they held the spoon with their left hand or their right hand when they ate the spoilt food. It has no informative value for treating the food poisoning. 

 

Asking whether someone's had the exact same experience as you is not helping you. It is actively hurting you because you are obsessing about the specific symptoms and waiting for reassurance. That is a compulsion in OCD terms. You may not have complete control over the obssessions but the basic principle of breaking OCD is to tolerate the anxiety that comes from not doing the compulsion - i.e. not asking about the specific symptoms in this case. But you have had other obsessions with reinstatement from what I can see in your blog. Every time you ask, and every time you get an answer, you ask again and you need even more reassurance and every single time your compulsion is strengthened and your fear is validated. ALL of these scary psych symptoms are withdrawal.

 

You may have had things before and WD may be exacerbating it and because of that you need real help with the anxiety, support forum help is not cutting it. The guy at work who offered CBT, please share with him this and ask if he can help you with mild exercises in tolerating uncertainty and breaking the compulsion cycle. Because of WD, things seem to be quite tough but you can take some steps to get better. The first step is to stop asking for reassurance. It is making things worse for you. S/he can provide lots of other tools. It will be tough in the beginning  but you can do it. 

 

Note that I am not saying you have OCD, I am not familiar with your case. I am familiar with reassurance seeking from OCD but it applies to more general anxiety issues as well. Also, the fact that you have OCD like symptoms in WD does not mean you have OCD - sometimes it is just WD. The link below may be helpful to understand it. 

https://psychcentral.com/lib/ocd-and-the-need-for-reassurance/

 

I hate to see you suffering. But it is in your power to help stop your suffering. You can break this cycle. 

 

 

"Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. 

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering)

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

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20 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

Snorky, 

there is no species of it and it is really not important which one you have, if there had been various species of it. Classifying it doesn't help with absolutely anything. There might not be a person who has had the exact symptoms you've had - there are plenty of people who can't watch TV for a while, there are plenty of people who want to get out of their skins in response to something, there are plenty of people who have rage at seemingly simple things. I've had ALL of them. Calling it anhedonia or akathisia or some other medical term is not going to change it. 

 

Asking if someone has had the exact same experience is as useless as asking someone with food poisoning whether they held the spoon with their left hand or their right hand when they ate the spoilt food. It has no informative value for treating the food poisoning. 

 

Asking whether someone's had the exact same experience as you is not helping you. It is actively hurting you because you are obsessing about the specific symptoms and waiting for reassurance. That is a compulsion in OCD terms. You may not have complete control over the obssessions but the basic principle of breaking OCD is to tolerate the anxiety that comes from not doing the compulsion - i.e. not asking about the specific symptoms in this case. But you have had other obsessions with reinstatement from what I can see in your blog. Every time you ask, and every time you get an answer, you ask again and you need even more reassurance and every single time your compulsion is strengthened and your fear is validated. ALL of these scary psych symptoms are withdrawal.

 

You may have had things before and WD may be exacerbating it and because of that you need real help with the anxiety, support forum help is not cutting it. The guy at work who offered CBT, please share with him this and ask if he can help you with mild exercises in tolerating uncertainty and breaking the compulsion cycle. Because of WD, things seem to be quite tough but you can take some steps to get better. The first step is to stop asking for reassurance. It is making things worse for you. S/he can provide lots of other tools. It will be tough in the beginning  but you can do it. 

 

Note that I am not saying you have OCD, I am not familiar with your case. I am familiar with reassurance seeking from OCD but it applies to more general anxiety issues as well. Also, the fact that you have OCD like symptoms in WD does not mean you have OCD - sometimes it is just WD. The link below may be helpful to understand it. 

https://psychcentral.com/lib/ocd-and-the-need-for-reassurance/

 

I hate to see you suffering. But it is in your power to help stop your suffering. You can break this cycle. 

 

 

Thanks O

 

“Tolerating the anxiety that comes from not doing the obsession” is v good advice indeed. I’ve always had an issue accepting that anxiety/depress could generate the physiological symptoms I’ve experienced for years. (Long b4 WD) In 2018 I spent months chasing neurological diagnoses to my symptoms. (Shaking, muscular stiff, photosensitivity and pain) It wasn’t that I believed I had one of the major neurological disorders, more that the underlying condition was generating these symptoms. I got some explanations around “somatisation and functioning neurological disorder” blah blah. 

 

I think I just need to understand, without obsessing, that WD has added the angst and mood issues that I didn’t have b4. 

 

Going to follow up CBT tomorrow. If so had any scepticism about this, it was just that I had (wrongly) determined that this would be inadequate for my tangible/chemically induced symptoms? However, I now understand it’s not as simple as this.

 

(Don’t think I was obsessing about reinstatement, just tried and struggled with adverse effects)

 

 

I really do appreciate your coherent and constructive thoughts.

 

Thank you.

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

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2 hours ago, Snorky said:

Thanks O

 

“Tolerating the anxiety that comes from not doing the obsession” is v good advice indeed. I’ve always had an issue accepting that anxiety/depress could generate the physiological symptoms I’ve experienced for years. (Long b4 WD) In 2018 I spent months chasing neurological diagnoses to my symptoms. (Shaking, muscular stiff, photosensitivity and pain) It wasn’t that I believed I had one of the major neurological disorders, more that the underlying condition was generating these symptoms. I got some explanations around “somatisation and functioning neurological disorder” blah blah. 

 

I think I just need to understand, without obsessing, that WD has added the angst and mood issues that I didn’t have b4. 

 

Going to follow up CBT tomorrow. If so had any scepticism about this, it was just that I had (wrongly) determined that this would be inadequate for my tangible/chemically induced symptoms? However, I now understand it’s not as simple as this.

 

(Don’t think I was obsessing about reinstatement, just tried and struggled with adverse effects)

 

 

I really do appreciate your coherent and constructive thoughts.

 

Thank you.

Hi Snorky, 

I don't think that CBT will take away all your symptoms but I think it will help and it will put you on an upward spiral. There will be setbacks for sure as with anything in life but these skills will really help. WD is hard and breaking the anxiety loop is probably just as hard sometimes. But you have to try for your own sake. It takes walking back from the urge for compulsion a million times, walking back a million times from the what-ifs but every time you do you strengthen those neural pathways and it gets a tiny bit easier.

"Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. 

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering)

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

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24 minutes ago, Onmyway said:

Hi Snorky, 

I don't think that CBT will take away all your symptoms but I think it will help and it will put you on an upward spiral. There will be setbacks for sure as with anything in life but these skills will really help. WD is hard and breaking the anxiety loop is probably just as hard sometimes. But you have to try for your own sake. It takes walking back from the urge for compulsion a million times, walking back a million times from the what-ifs but every time you do you strengthen those neural pathways and it gets a tiny bit easier.

Thank you again. What you say makes eminent sense. Will let you know how I get on with CBT.

 

Cymbalta 2007

Lyrica 2010

Venlafaxine 2010-2018

Amitriptyline October 2018-2019. (25, 50, 75, 100, 75, 50, 25)

CT 10 Sept 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 5 mg 29 Oct 2019

Reinstate amitriptyline 2.5mg 19 Nov 2019

CT 24  Nov 2019

Vitamin D 16 Dec and Promethazine 25mg 16 Dec (one month only)

 

 

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4 hours ago, Snorky said:

Thank you again. What you say makes eminent sense. Will let you know how I get on with CBT.

Good luck! From my experience, CBT is not easy. But it works. You just have to do the exercises, do the homework like a school kid and see those neural paths change. There will be setbacks and it won't be quick and it won't be painless as it will ask you to tolerate some difficult emotions. But you have to remember the prize - feeling better. Cheering from the sidelines.

"Nothing so small as a moment is insurmountable, and moments are all that we have. You have survived every trial and tribulation that life has thrown at you up until this very instant. When future troubles come—and they will come—a version of you will be born into that moment that can conquer them, too." - Kevin Koenig 

 

I am not a doctor and this should not be considered medical advice. You can use the information and recommendations provided in whatever way you want and all decisions on your treatment are yours. 

 

In the next few weeks I do not have a lot of capacity to respond to questions. If you need a quick answer pls tag or ask other moderators who may want to be tagged. 

 

Aug  2000 - July 2003 (ct, 4-6 wk wd) , citalopram 20 mg,  xanax prn, wellbutrin for a few months, trazodone prn 

Dec 2004 - July 2018 citalopram 20 mg, xanax prn (rarely used)

Aug 2018 - citalopram 40 mg (self titrated up)

September 2018 - January 2019 tapered citalopram - 40/30/20/10/5 no issues until a week after reaching 0

Feb 2019 0.25 xanax - 0.5/day (3 weeks) over to klonopin 0.25 once a day to manage severe wd

March 6, reinstated citalopram 2.5 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 mg for sleep 2-3 times a week

Apr 1st citalopram 2.0 mg (liquid), klonopin 0.25 once a week (off by 4/14/19- no tapering)

citalopram (liquid) 4/14/19 -1.8 mg, 5/8/19 - 1.6 mg,  7/27/19 -1.5 mg,  8/15/19 - 1.35, 2/21/21 - 1.1 (smaller drops in between), 6/20/21 - 1.03 mg, 8/7/21- 1.025, 8/11/21 - 1.02, 8/15/21 - 1.015, 9/3/21 - 0.925 (fingers crossed!), 10/8/21 - 0.9, 10/18/21 - 0.875, 12/31/21 - 0.85, 1/7/22 - 0.825, 1/14/22 - 0.8, 1/22/22 - 0.785, 8/18/22 - 0.59, 12/15/2022 - 0.48, 2/15/22 - 0.43, 25/07/23 - 0.25 (mistake), 6/08/23 - 0.33mg

 

Supplements: magnesium citrate and bi-glycinate

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On 1/16/2020 at 4:43 AM, brassmonkey said:

1Day-- Coming off of 20mg in only  a year is a very fast taper and will cause a reaction very similar to a CT. The flashes of improvement in your symptoms before making the jump were probably just your body trying to understand and cope with what was happening to it.  Once you were completely off your body could understand it's situation and make the reaction that it did.  For a CT the fourth year is frequently marked with some good improvements in the symptom levels. The emotional numbing should start showing some signs of improving.  PSSD is such and intricate and personal symptom it is very hard to make any call on it.  It could clear up tomorrow or it could drag on for quite some time.  Like I said there are just to many factors involved to try and make a call. We do have many members here who can attest to the fact that it will eventually clear up.

Thanks, Brassmonkey

Escitalopram for anxiety (dates below are approximate).

 

Oct 09 - Apr 10, 20mg (tapered off over about 6 weeks). 

Jun 10 - Feb 11, 20mg (tapered off over about 6 weeks). 

Jun 11 - Aug 12, 20mg (started to taper off but failed). 

Oct 12 - Dec 13, 20mg.  Dec 13 - Apr 14, 10mg.  Apr 14 - Nov 14, 5mg. 

Nov 14 - Jan 16, 20mg.  Jan 16 - Aug 16, 10mg.  Aug 16 - Dec 16, 10mg every other day.  Dec 16 - Jan 17 5mg every third day.  Jan 17 - took last tablet.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Been completely off for a month and a half from Zoloft and lamotragine. I gave this constant uneasy feeling like I can’t relax what is this ? Is it normal will it go away ? I really need some help I’m afraid I will have to go back on meds and I don’t want to 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/24/2017 at 1:35 AM, emmabee said:

I don't know the answer to that question, but I can say that when did my quick taper from Effexor and then started Lexapro, I had crazy vivid dreams for months.  Then when I started to taper the Lexapro, I couldn't remember any dreams at all.  It's been about a year since then, and only recently, say in the past two weeks, have I started to have any awareness of dreams.  They aren't vivid like they used to be, but they are coming back a little bit.

 

Maybe it means something?  

 

 

I've started having dreams also, ever since I stopped taking Effexor. I am still on Citalopram, so maybe Effexor contributes to not having dreams. 

I also have a disturbed sleep pattern. Feel the need to sleep extra. 

 

The anhedonia and lack of motivation persist even without Effexor. Although my libido is a bit better. But I'm in a 3 week window right now. I feel better, but there is no desire to carry out actions or work although I am in a financial crunch and need money. 

 

I do wonder if I should start tapering Citalopram mow. I've been holding for a few weeks now. Or should I let this window run its course?

2012- Citalopram 40- Axal 0.5mg  2017- Stopped Axal CT. No WD.

2017 - Effexor XR 75 mg.

For Epilepsy:1983 - Tegral 400 mg/day  2009 - Lumark 1000 mg/day- Biotim eyedrops for glaucoma.

27 April 2019 - Effexor XR taper started. 40 beads removed - 16% - 63mg20 May - 10% - 20 beads. 57mg / 3 June - 10% - 20 beads - 51mg / 18 July - 6% -10 beads - 48mg / 20 July - 7% -10 beads- 44.5mg/ 1 Sept - 75 mg alternate days = 37.5 mg/ 14 Sept - 75 mg every 3rd day = 25mg/  22 Sept - Effexor XR stopped.

27 Oct - Tegral = 300mg. Citalopram = 30 mg. Lumark = 500mg Busron = 10 mg. Somna = 2.5 mg

1-Jan 2020 Tegral 200mg BD- Citalopram 20mg OD- Lumark 500BD

25 Apr 2020 Tegral 200 mg BD- Citalopram alternate days 20 mg and 10 mg OD - Lumark 500BD

May June 2020 Dropped to 10 mg citalopram due to drug shortages.

Early July 2020: CT'ed citalopram - nonavailability of medicine. Tegral + Lumark remains same as before.

 

 

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My emotional anesthesia, anhedonia, fear, dread, doom continue to worsen the longer my slow taper goes on.  I am completely passive and mute with nothing to say to anyone.  I also am ashamed to admit that I have no love or compassion for anyone or anything and it's really scary and getting worse.  Just existing to get through each day alive is my one goal.  I'm unable to even hope.  Has anyone else felt like this and recovered? 

 

2016-Aug-Prescribed 2 mg Ativan & 10 mg Ambien; Oct-c/o from 20 mg Lexapro to 60 mg Cymbalta; Nov-Dec-Tapered off 10 mg Ambien    

2017-Jan-Feb c/o from 1.75 mg Ativan to 13 mg Valium & begin daily liquid micro taper; May-taper Cymbalta 60 mg to 48 mg with severe withdrawals.  Begin 11 month Cymbalta hold.

2018-Jan 11 completed Valium taper; Apr-Resume Cymbalta taper.  Interval dose progress: Apr 43 mg; May 40 mg; Jul 35 mg; Sep 29 mg; Dec 21 mg; 

2019- Apr 14 mg; Jun 11 mg; Aug 9 mg; Oct 7 mg; Nov 6 mg

2020-Jan 5.2 mg; Feb 4.8 mg; Mar 4.3 mg; Apr 3.9 mg; May 3.5 mg; Jun 3.3 mg; Jul 2.9 mg; Aug 2.7 mg; 28 Sep 2.4 mg/12 beads; 25 Oct 2.2 mg/11 beads; 22 Nov 2.0 mg/10 beads; 20 Dec 1.8 mg/9 beads

2021- 17 Jan 1.6 mg/8 beads; 14 Feb 1.4 mg/7 beads; 18 Mar 1.2 mg/6 beads; 18 Apr 1.0 mg/5 beads; 16 May

0.8 mg/4 beads; 13 Jun 0.6 mg/3 beads; 11 Jul 0.5 mg/2 beads; 8 Aug .03 mg/1 bead; 5 Sep 0 mg.

Brutal, agonizing, slow 4.5 year Cymbalta taper completed as of 5 Sep 2021.  100% psych drug free.  

 

 

 

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Interesting article. 

 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mad-in-america/201106/now-antidepressant-induced-chronic-depression-has-name-tardive-dysphoria

 

In the early 1990s, El-Mallakh notes, only about 10 to 15 percent of patients with major depressive illness had treatment-resistant depression (and thus were chronically ill). In 2006, researchers reported that nearly 40 percent of patients were now treatment-resistant. In a period when the use of SSRI antidepressants exploded, refractory depression went on the march.

 

In his discussion, El-Mallakh notes that people without any history of depression who are prescribed an antidepressant for other reasons—anxiety, panic disorder, or because they are serving as “normal controls” in a study—may become depressed, with that depression at times persisting for a fairly long period of time after the antidepressant is withdrawn.

2012- Citalopram 40- Axal 0.5mg  2017- Stopped Axal CT. No WD.

2017 - Effexor XR 75 mg.

For Epilepsy:1983 - Tegral 400 mg/day  2009 - Lumark 1000 mg/day- Biotim eyedrops for glaucoma.

27 April 2019 - Effexor XR taper started. 40 beads removed - 16% - 63mg20 May - 10% - 20 beads. 57mg / 3 June - 10% - 20 beads - 51mg / 18 July - 6% -10 beads - 48mg / 20 July - 7% -10 beads- 44.5mg/ 1 Sept - 75 mg alternate days = 37.5 mg/ 14 Sept - 75 mg every 3rd day = 25mg/  22 Sept - Effexor XR stopped.

27 Oct - Tegral = 300mg. Citalopram = 30 mg. Lumark = 500mg Busron = 10 mg. Somna = 2.5 mg

1-Jan 2020 Tegral 200mg BD- Citalopram 20mg OD- Lumark 500BD

25 Apr 2020 Tegral 200 mg BD- Citalopram alternate days 20 mg and 10 mg OD - Lumark 500BD

May June 2020 Dropped to 10 mg citalopram due to drug shortages.

Early July 2020: CT'ed citalopram - nonavailability of medicine. Tegral + Lumark remains same as before.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...
  • Mentor
On 1/16/2020 at 12:10 AM, Snorky said:

I wish someone would comment on my species of anhedonia, particularly the agitation type mental tightness that prevents watching, listening and reading etc.

 

I’ve called it out as mental akathasia and keep waiting for it to become full blown paving around etc.

 

Thank you

@Snorky i had this symptom rest assured that it will get better with time, don't worry

Cymbalta 30 mg- 60 mg 

06/2016-  10/2018 ( Cold Turkey) 

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Topic title before merging with main discussion on anhedonia: 

 

Recovery from Anhedonia? Advice?

 

Hi. I am experiencing anhedonia, secondary to an undiagnosed condition I developed following a months-long gastrointestinal illness that kept waking me up at night and produced interrupted sleep and hypnagogic hallucinations. Seeing as I reacted terribly to psych meds and I have not been treated, how do I overcome my innate anhedonia? My personality is not the same since my illness and I am unable to do more than read and weakly play brain games in bed, in an effort to stave off my equivalent cognitive decline. I have retained my vocabulary for the most part, but am often confused and experience happiness as anxiety. Even forcing a smile makes me feel pain/nausea. Any tips or analysis? Thank you. 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added topic title

Rabavert rabies vaccine February 2020, 2 doses. Seroquel 25 mg end of March 2020, immediately had some involuntary movement. Switched to Trazodone and had an Akathesia episode and involuntary movement, was up for 24 hours pacing. The next week was put on Citalopram 10mg, immediately got dyskinesia (pill rolling, teeth grinding, twitching, teeth licking, bunny nose) with compulsive behaviour. Hospitalized April 2020, put on Respiridone 0.125 upped to 0.25 for 2 weeks. Quit April 29 after tapering to 0.125 mg for 3 days. Continued to be misdiagnosed as psychiatric and put on 2.5 Olanzapine April 14, 2020, upped to 5 mg and 150 Zoloft (!!!) July 2020. Diagnosed as having post-infectious Functional Neurological Disorder with a CSF leak in my brain and advised to taper off meds by neurologist. Tapered Zoloft until August 10 to 0, no side effects. Tapered 5mg Olanzapine July 31, 2020 to 0.75 August 21, 2020. September 1 reached 0.61mg but had diarrhea and nighttime awakenings in a half-asleep state with body sweats and some involuntary movements. Quit Zyprexa completely September 3, 2020. Sweating, muscle pain, broken sleep, itching and diarrhea for a week, seemingly improving now on September 13, 2020. Taking Lion's Mane Mushroom 1000mg, 200mg magnesium, 500mg Vitamin C/D, 550mg Turmeric daily.

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  • 5 months later...

isn't it a crime to prescribe these drugs if they can cause anhedesia? why does a psychiatrist recommend these if a patient can commit suicide? for young healthy people? for panic disorder Sertralin 50mg? this is sick. my eyes opened to the whole psychiatry. i don't trust anymore they are dark. can severe anhodesia be cured? what about the insensitivity associated with it? I guess that's possible? i can't live the rest of my life like this. I'm like a dream all the time, this does not seem real. this is one hell. why have my thoughts been taken away from me? all the memories wiped away? is this a chemical lobotomy? it’s hard to present a normal person when I don’t feel anything.

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  • Moderator Emeritus
2 hours ago, Elina said:

can severe anhodesia be cured? what about the insensitivity associated with it?

Anhedonia and insensitivity are common withdrawal symptoms.   They will fade in time.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Being unable to cry

 

I have seen that some users call it cry spell, but it should has it's own topic, because it is a symptom that happens at least quite often. Yes, it is not typical WD symptoms, because it appears during the "treatment", during taking antidepressants.

 

It is manifesting simple like this: you are sad, but you you are just unable to cry, at any rate. Your tear just "doesn't pass through your eye", at least your feeling is something like this.

 

Why it could be important? I have a hypothesis that when your ability to cry is slowly coming back, it could be in indicator, that your healing is in progress and that your brain is repaired in some degree. Maybe I am wrong and we will unable to cry forever?

 

How was all this happening during your WD process? Did you (slowly) start being able to cry again?

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added topic title

2009-2010: Asentra (50 mg)

2011: Cipralex (10 mg)

2009-2011: tried Zyprexa (5/2.5mg), Kventiax  (50/25mg) and Abilify (low dosage) (started refusing it - being zombie)

CT Cipralex, being free for several moths

2012-2016: Prozac (60 mg)

2016-2017: Alventa (75 mg)

2016: just tried Cymbalta and Ludiomil

2017-2018: Mirtazapine (30/45mg)

2012-2018: Wellbutrine (300 mg)

2014-2018: Lamotrigine (50/100/150 mg) CT Wellbutrin, tapering lamitrogine and mirtazapine too fast

Supplements: B12, D, Mg, trying B3, B1

I know I wrote a lot of nonsense here. I'm sorry, I feel shamed!

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  • Moderator Emeritus

merged similar topics

 

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

merged "apathy and anhedonia" to similar topic.

Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks.

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed.  Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022, and again finally 5/25/24.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider.  My success story:  Blue skies ahead, clear sailing

 

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  • 3 months later...

Dear Nadia,

 

thanks so much for your your description! I was wondering if you suffered this anhedonia while you were still on your medication, or after you came off it?

 

 

On 4/18/2012 at 7:22 PM, Nadia said:

Hi Barb,

 

Let me reassure you that this will improve! I was at the very depths of anhedonia some months ago, and slowly I started recovering my ability to feel pleasure. I went from feeling no love for anyone, no pleasure in anything... the most I would feel would be horror or dread or just a really bizarre feeling which I can only call derealization. Everything seemed awful and distant and cold.

 

Alto suggested I do the things which used to cause pleasure for me anyway... I sat in the sun, looked at flowers and trees, ate, took deep breaths, showers, drank a cup of tea, read. The progress was gradual and erratic. From anhedonia I went to depression, and disliking everything and everyone intensely. And then this past month, it's like a cloud lifted, and I feel so much better. Things that seemed absolutely horrible before seem OK now, or more like a problem that can be fixed instead of the end of the world. Nothing in my outer life has really changed, but because I can enjoy things more I can make choices about changes I need to make. The first thing I started enjoying was nature... I felt a deep thirst for trees, animals, and also food. That was a signal to me that I was "coming back to life".

 

I think you have to plow ahead and "fake it 'til you make it"... do things that are healthy. Walk, eat well, try some form of meditation. I often would repeat to myself "may I be happy, may I be healthy, may I be peaceful, may I be safe"... and then I added inspired and fulfilled as well. I tried to imagine and generate health, even though at the beginning it didn't feel like health or seem right.

 

Maybe to ultimately be happy you need to change your life situation and maybe right now you don't have the strength or the ability to do it... I suspect that was the case for me, but I was so far in the dark about everything, and everything seemed so horrible, that I could not imagine the way out. Now I'm relearning the things that I like naturally and that make me feel good and starting to be able to imagine having the gumption to take action (though I'm still taking shaky steps).

 

Even if you don't feel it at first, go through the motions. Sometimes it's good to socialize and get out there even if you don't like who you are with. But even better would be if you could find someone you actually enjoy spending time with (I'm still working on that one). And I think sometimes it's better to be alone or with animals! Certainly it's OK to shield yourself from toxic people in your life (as much as you are able).

 

I think being around animals can really help and you should not feel guilty about not being at your best with them... I know at the depths of what I was feeling I didn't even get relief from being around dogs and just didn't have the energy to take care of them (I did for a friend once, but my heart wasn't in it and I too felt guilty). I think even if you don't FEEL it at the moment, it repairs you in hidden, gradual ways. Do your best to take care of them, and let them take care of you, too.

 

Fluoxetine (Prozac) (25mg?) from December 2002 - November 2005 for anxiety/depression

Effexor (Venlafaxine) Retard (75mg) due to Panic attacks from November 2005 until around May 2020 when I started tapering off from 75mg to about 33mg in September. Accidentially missed a dose and naively went cold turkey from around 33mg to zero on 26th of September. Hell broke loose in early December.

25th December: Reinstated Venlafaxine with one bead (0.3/0.4mg) in the evening, proceeding with two beads (0.7/0.8mg)

since 5th January: 3 beads of Venlafaxine daily and nothing else except fish oil and magnesium. No changes in daily routine

15th January - 17th January: 4 beads of Venlafaxine

since 18th January: back to 3 beads of Venlafaxine due to extreme agitation, introduced Ashwaghanda supplement.

Since 23. January: introduced Lyrica to help with sleep/jerks keeping me awake: updosed from 4mg to 8mg.

Since February: 700mg Valerian and 2mg Melatonin for sleep

March: tapering Lyrica again due to side effects.

April: down to 2 beads of Venlafaxine

17th October: Off everything. Braindead, apathetic/anhedonic Zombie.

 

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Dear @brassmonkey, from your observation - is anhedonia/emotional anesthesia rather a withdrawal symptom or a side effect of psych drugs?

And is it possible to suffer complete emotional numbness from only a microdose of a drug?

Thanks for your opinion!

 

 

 

 

On 1/12/2020 at 10:05 PM, brassmonkey said:

 

This study has nothing to do with recovering from the chemically induced depression/anhedonia produced by exposure to ADs. It is rather the outline of a theory for treating these symptoms with the addition of other psychotropic drugs. A theory that we are constantly disproving and a method of treatment that we do not support.  The addition of drugs to treat symptoms of AD use has proved time an again to be the wrong answer to the situation and only causes an increase in problems, which in turn is treated by more drugs being thrown at the situation.  We frequently refer to it as the "Drug Merry-Go-Round" and it is not a valid course of treatment.

 

We have proved, to the member, that these symptoms are just as transient as any other ADWD symptom.  Given time and taper the severity of these symptoms will stabilize, decrease and eventually resolve.  As long as there is some level of the drug present in the body there will be a chance of their occurrence, but once the drug has been removed and the body allowed to recover these symptoms no longer pose a threat.

 

Fluoxetine (Prozac) (25mg?) from December 2002 - November 2005 for anxiety/depression

Effexor (Venlafaxine) Retard (75mg) due to Panic attacks from November 2005 until around May 2020 when I started tapering off from 75mg to about 33mg in September. Accidentially missed a dose and naively went cold turkey from around 33mg to zero on 26th of September. Hell broke loose in early December.

25th December: Reinstated Venlafaxine with one bead (0.3/0.4mg) in the evening, proceeding with two beads (0.7/0.8mg)

since 5th January: 3 beads of Venlafaxine daily and nothing else except fish oil and magnesium. No changes in daily routine

15th January - 17th January: 4 beads of Venlafaxine

since 18th January: back to 3 beads of Venlafaxine due to extreme agitation, introduced Ashwaghanda supplement.

Since 23. January: introduced Lyrica to help with sleep/jerks keeping me awake: updosed from 4mg to 8mg.

Since February: 700mg Valerian and 2mg Melatonin for sleep

March: tapering Lyrica again due to side effects.

April: down to 2 beads of Venlafaxine

17th October: Off everything. Braindead, apathetic/anhedonic Zombie.

 

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  • Moderator

It is a very common side effect that carries on throughout the tapering process. It is, in fact, the way in which these drugs are designed to work. They do not "cure" depression or anxiety but rather make it so you don't feel the depression or anxiety by causing you to feel nothing at all. More like you are still depressed/anxious, but don't care about it.

 

It is quite possible to experience it from just a tiny amount of the drug. We have had a good number of members who report being off of all drugs and having intense anxiety and other symptoms who decide to reinstate a tiny (.25-.5mgai)dose. They report that with in a day or so they are "suffering from intense anhedonia" and not caring about anything and verge on being nonfunctional.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Thanks for your response @brassmonkey, this is exactly what happened to me: complete emotional anesthesia from a tiny reinstatement. From your observation: Is that a typical phenomenon when reinstating the same drug that was formerly taken for years? Or would the brain react to other psych drugs in the same way?

The reinstatement has blocked out the anxiety, but also any other emotion. Physically, it didn't improve my symptoms (after 8 weeks) - so I wonder if I should taper it off..

Would you hold the reinstatement a bit longer, hoping for the physical symptoms to improve?

Or do you think the emotional numbness will become more diffcult to get rid of, the longer I stick with the reinstatement? (i.e. does it have a cumulative effect)?

 

 

 

13 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

 

It is a very common side effect that carries on throughout the tapering process. It is, in fact, the way in which these drugs are designed to work. They do not "cure" depression or anxiety but rather make it so you don't feel the depression or anxiety by causing you to feel nothing at all. More like you are still depressed/anxious, but don't care about it.

 

It is quite possible to experience it from just a tiny amount of the drug. We have had a good number of members who report being off of all drugs and having intense anxiety and other symptoms who decide to reinstate a tiny (.25-.5mgai)dose. They report that with in a day or so they are "suffering from intense anhedonia" and not caring about anything and verge on being nonfunctional.

 

Fluoxetine (Prozac) (25mg?) from December 2002 - November 2005 for anxiety/depression

Effexor (Venlafaxine) Retard (75mg) due to Panic attacks from November 2005 until around May 2020 when I started tapering off from 75mg to about 33mg in September. Accidentially missed a dose and naively went cold turkey from around 33mg to zero on 26th of September. Hell broke loose in early December.

25th December: Reinstated Venlafaxine with one bead (0.3/0.4mg) in the evening, proceeding with two beads (0.7/0.8mg)

since 5th January: 3 beads of Venlafaxine daily and nothing else except fish oil and magnesium. No changes in daily routine

15th January - 17th January: 4 beads of Venlafaxine

since 18th January: back to 3 beads of Venlafaxine due to extreme agitation, introduced Ashwaghanda supplement.

Since 23. January: introduced Lyrica to help with sleep/jerks keeping me awake: updosed from 4mg to 8mg.

Since February: 700mg Valerian and 2mg Melatonin for sleep

March: tapering Lyrica again due to side effects.

April: down to 2 beads of Venlafaxine

17th October: Off everything. Braindead, apathetic/anhedonic Zombie.

 

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  • Moderator

Reinstating any psych drug can have the same affect, not just the one you've previously taken. If the reinstatement is not having the desired affect with the physical symptoms you could go ahead and taper it. But the anxiety will probably return as you do.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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  • 1 month later...

Hi there. I would just be interested. I read through the thread. true I am still very far from zero, but there are those who have passed this anhedon state. I've had a wave like this before but it's over. however, it has been constant since my last reduction. there is no interest pleasure nothing. I hope it passes. At age 33, one wouldn’t really want to live like this. perseverance guys

 2023.01.27 1,6 mg 2023.01.29 1,5 mg 2023.02.27 1,35 mg 2023.03.30 1,2 mg 2023.04.18 1,1 mg 04,26 1,05 mg 2023.01.26 1,05 mg 2023.02.27 .27 .20. .21 0,8 mg 2023.07.14 0,65 mg 2023.08.20 0,45 mg 2023.09.20 0,25 mg 2023.11.14 000000000!!!!!

 

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On 3/7/2021 at 10:08 PM, brassmonkey said:

Reinstating any psych drug can have the same affect, not just the one you've previously taken. If the reinstatement is not having the desired affect with the physical symptoms you could go ahead and taper it. But the anxiety will probably return as you do.

 

Thank you @brassmonkey! From your experience, will the underlying anxiety fade over the course of time/withdrawal? In this case, it would probably be smarter to wait a bit longer before tapering the tiny reinstatement, I suppose? Or would it be better for brain recovery to get rid of the drug sooner? I feel I only have the choice between anhedonic/depressed zombiemode or intense anxiety.

Fluoxetine (Prozac) (25mg?) from December 2002 - November 2005 for anxiety/depression

Effexor (Venlafaxine) Retard (75mg) due to Panic attacks from November 2005 until around May 2020 when I started tapering off from 75mg to about 33mg in September. Accidentially missed a dose and naively went cold turkey from around 33mg to zero on 26th of September. Hell broke loose in early December.

25th December: Reinstated Venlafaxine with one bead (0.3/0.4mg) in the evening, proceeding with two beads (0.7/0.8mg)

since 5th January: 3 beads of Venlafaxine daily and nothing else except fish oil and magnesium. No changes in daily routine

15th January - 17th January: 4 beads of Venlafaxine

since 18th January: back to 3 beads of Venlafaxine due to extreme agitation, introduced Ashwaghanda supplement.

Since 23. January: introduced Lyrica to help with sleep/jerks keeping me awake: updosed from 4mg to 8mg.

Since February: 700mg Valerian and 2mg Melatonin for sleep

March: tapering Lyrica again due to side effects.

April: down to 2 beads of Venlafaxine

17th October: Off everything. Braindead, apathetic/anhedonic Zombie.

 

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Intense anxiety can be one of the more prevalent symptoms of ADWD, it comes and goes in waves, can be mild to intense and will be very unpredictable as to when it will show up. It can be a major part of the "late breaking waves" that happen months after jumping to "0". There really is not way to get away from it. It does appear to get less frequent and a little less intense as time/taper goes on.

 

My big concern is that the other drugs/supplements that you have added in since the first of the year all are known to cause anxiety or related symptoms. Lyrica is a major contributor, valerian can go paradoxical after just a month or so of use and start causing problems as can melatonin. BTW 2mg of Melatonin is a very big dose. It's not one of those drugs where more is better, in fact the opposite. A dose of 0.5mg is usually more effective than 2mg. Melatonin doesn't "put you to sleep" but rather tells the body it is time to sleep.

 

I think getting the additional drugs under control and tapered will help greatly, then go on to taper the Mirtazapine. 

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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@Altostrata may I ask you a question? From your experience, is there any difference between drug-induced vs. withdrawal-induced emotional anesthesia, with regard to recovery length/pattern? 

Fluoxetine (Prozac) (25mg?) from December 2002 - November 2005 for anxiety/depression

Effexor (Venlafaxine) Retard (75mg) due to Panic attacks from November 2005 until around May 2020 when I started tapering off from 75mg to about 33mg in September. Accidentially missed a dose and naively went cold turkey from around 33mg to zero on 26th of September. Hell broke loose in early December.

25th December: Reinstated Venlafaxine with one bead (0.3/0.4mg) in the evening, proceeding with two beads (0.7/0.8mg)

since 5th January: 3 beads of Venlafaxine daily and nothing else except fish oil and magnesium. No changes in daily routine

15th January - 17th January: 4 beads of Venlafaxine

since 18th January: back to 3 beads of Venlafaxine due to extreme agitation, introduced Ashwaghanda supplement.

Since 23. January: introduced Lyrica to help with sleep/jerks keeping me awake: updosed from 4mg to 8mg.

Since February: 700mg Valerian and 2mg Melatonin for sleep

March: tapering Lyrica again due to side effects.

April: down to 2 beads of Venlafaxine

17th October: Off everything. Braindead, apathetic/anhedonic Zombie.

 

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Not that we know of.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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Thank you @Altostrata! Just one more question - how about cases of adverse reactions to drugs/SSRI? Have you observed any difference for those? And if so, do you think the length of exposure to the drug makes a difference? Thank you!!

 

Quote

 

Not that we know of.

 

Fluoxetine (Prozac) (25mg?) from December 2002 - November 2005 for anxiety/depression

Effexor (Venlafaxine) Retard (75mg) due to Panic attacks from November 2005 until around May 2020 when I started tapering off from 75mg to about 33mg in September. Accidentially missed a dose and naively went cold turkey from around 33mg to zero on 26th of September. Hell broke loose in early December.

25th December: Reinstated Venlafaxine with one bead (0.3/0.4mg) in the evening, proceeding with two beads (0.7/0.8mg)

since 5th January: 3 beads of Venlafaxine daily and nothing else except fish oil and magnesium. No changes in daily routine

15th January - 17th January: 4 beads of Venlafaxine

since 18th January: back to 3 beads of Venlafaxine due to extreme agitation, introduced Ashwaghanda supplement.

Since 23. January: introduced Lyrica to help with sleep/jerks keeping me awake: updosed from 4mg to 8mg.

Since February: 700mg Valerian and 2mg Melatonin for sleep

March: tapering Lyrica again due to side effects.

April: down to 2 beads of Venlafaxine

17th October: Off everything. Braindead, apathetic/anhedonic Zombie.

 

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