Apathy, anhedonia, emotional numbness, emotional anesthesia

[gardenlady]

On 8/27/2021 at 12:26 PM, Kat66 said:

I can totally relate to this @gardenlady as this is basically my life at the moment. You're not alone. How are you at the moment?

Doing worse as time goes on....more blank and merely existing.  I'm sorry you're feeling the same.  

[Nic123]

On 8/31/2021 at 2:39 PM, gardenlady said:

Doing worse as time goes on....more blank and merely existing.  I'm sorry you're feeling the same.  

I've had this blankness for so long i cant even remember what feeling normal is like now... the worst part is just feeling like in a constant fog and haze. It is such a huge misfortune we all have to suffer from this for such a long time, i cant help but wonder what is the point of hanging around?

[Kat66]

5 hours ago, Nic123 said:

I've had this blankness for so long i cant even remember what feeling normal is like now... the worst part is just feeling like in a constant fog and haze. It is such a huge misfortune we all have to suffer from this for such a long time, i cant help but wonder what is the point of hanging around?

 

On 8/31/2021 at 5:39 AM, gardenlady said:

Doing worse as time goes on....more blank and merely existing.  I'm sorry you're feeling the same.  

I hope to God we all heal from this - all we can do is try and look after ourselves and be patient. From what everyone on here says, healing happens eventually. Take it an hour at a time and if ANYTHING helps, do it, no matter how trivial. 

[Katy398]

When symptoms are recorded as lasting for many years this has become tough to read. Can anyone give any experience of their recovery from this? What did it look like? It feels like this Apathy Anhedonia emotional numbness, emotional anaesthesia community could do with some encouragement. 

 

[Nic123]

2 hours ago, Katy398 said:

 

When symptoms are recorded as lasting for many years this has become tough to read. Can anyone give any experience of their recovery from this? What did it look like? It feels like this Apathy Anhedonia emotional numbness, emotional anaesthesia community could do with some encouragement. 

 

I’m really starting to get fed up with feeling this way, it’s now been 8 months or so with no changes. It simply has to be a chemical change imo, as far as I can tell my brain doesn’t produce any chemicals anymore as I literally don’t have any brain sensations, feelings, thoughts, emotions. It’s like I’m a robot. How does one stay hopeful that things improve? It feels completely permanent.

 

I was only on the poisen 2 months at half dose!

[Kat66]

Hi @Nic123 as far as I know, or have read, the serotonin and dopamine receptors do eventually repair themselves, which is what I’m clinging onto. It just takes time. I can totally empathise with what your going through though, as endless weeks and months of numbness are hard to tolerate. Hang in there. X

[Nic123]

On 10/8/2021 at 7:27 PM, Kat66 said:

Hi @Nic123 as far as I know, or have read, the serotonin and dopamine receptors do eventually repair themselves, which is what I’m clinging onto. It just takes time. I can totally empathise with what your going through though, as endless weeks and months of numbness are hard to tolerate. Hang in there. X

i don’t really have much hope for recovery anymore. 10 months and not one improvement in the emotion/feeling department if anything it just got worst and worst and seems like some kind of brain damage to me. I think with lockdowns and covid it ruined my chance of healing as depression probably took over as wel. My theory is the brain has wired itself to use seratonin/dopamine differently most likely. The feeling in my head 24/7 is indescribable, like I’m asleep but awake if that makes any sense. Absolutely no sensations

[Kat66]

@Nic123sounds bloody horrible. I think I know what you mean about being awake yet asleep. And I know what you mean about all the lockdowns having affected things more intensely. I definitely feel like I'm a different person than before covid, and that's notwithstanding WD. 10 months is a long time, but I've read on here it can take upwards of two years or more to recover. I wish I could say something that would comfort you, but please do keep talking to us on here and let us know how you're getting along. I find the support on here invaluable, at least we know there are so many others going through this hell, and we're not alone. 

[Kat66]

Anhedonia off the scale at the moment. Reaching 'what's the point' territory. Just a robot/zombie going through the motions of life......lifeless.

[Nic123]

4 hours ago, Kat66 said:

Anhedonia off the scale at the moment. Reaching 'what's the point' territory. Just a robot/zombie going through the motions of life......lifeless.

Same here. Gotten worst the past couple days. I have no idea how people endure this state for years on end. I’d do anything to feel even a slither of emotion. None of this makes any sense. 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

4 minutes ago, Nic123 said:

Same here. Gotten worst the past couple days. I have no idea how people endure this state for years on end. I’d do anything to feel even a slither of emotion. None of this makes any sense. 

@Kat66, @Nic123

feeling the same guys, it’s really bad. But I am not sure if what I feel is severe depression or anhedonia. How do we determine this?

[Kat66]

On 10/13/2021 at 11:36 PM, JesusSavemefromWD said:

@Kat66, @Nic123

feeling the same guys, it’s really bad. But I am not sure if what I feel is severe depression or anhedonia. How do we determine this?

@JesusSavemefromWD I'm not sure if what we're going through is depression, rather a WD induced depression-like state, a 'neuro-emotion'. And anhedonia is one symptom of this awful state.

[JesusSavemefromWD]

3 hours ago, Kat66 said:

@JesusSavemefromWD I'm not sure if what we're going through is depression, rather a WD induced depression-like state, a 'neuro-emotion'. And anhedonia is one symptom of this awful state.

You got me wrong, what we are experiencing is definitely a side effect of ADs, in my case results of a severe adverse reaction a year ago. I never had these feelings before my adverse reaction. I was just wondering if my current status (brought by Zoloft) of feeling like a zombie without feelings is drug induced depression or drug induced anhedonia 

hope ur doing better 

[ChessieCat]

On 10/14/2021 at 9:36 AM, JesusSavemefromWD said:

But I am not sure if what I feel is severe depression or anhedonia. How do we determine this?

 

These would apply to adverse drug reaction too:

 

How do I know it's withdrawal and not relapse?

 

withdrawal-or-relapse-or-something-else

 

[Nic123]

I still believe it was the lexapro that “triggered” something in my brain. I have no idea of the mechanisms that caused it and I’m sure we never will know. But I think we can say this isn’t “depression”. But maybe it is just an extremely deep depression trigger by the lack of ssri’s changing how the brain uptakes serotonin leaving us with zero seratonin 24/7, this is all speculation as I really don’t know it’s just how it feels like, like I have no brain chemicals firing anymore hence the zero feeling.

 

 

has anyone taken the covid vaccine? I was EXTREMELY hesitant for the longest time as I didn’t want to add more chemicals to my body and make myself worst in someway. But not having it was also causing me a lot of depression and anxiety knowing I could catch covid etc and I feel as if it was halting my progress of healing so I did get my first dose. I really can’t say I feel any different and if I did I think it would be my hypochondriac more than anything.

[Nic123]

Also starting to wonder if this is just depression? But i have no idea how that would explain my head being blank all the time and having very very few natural thoughts

[JesusSavemefromWD]

3 minutes ago, Nic123 said:

Also starting to wonder if this is just depression? But i have no idea how that would explain my head being blank all the time and having very very few natural thoughts

Whatever it is, it’s from the drugs. I was just wondering how can we determine if a drug induced neuroemotion is depression or anhedonia since they feel so much the same. No joy, lack of interest, no positive thinking, feeling emotion less ….I am not sure how u experience the “blank mind”, this is smg I am not experiencing. My brain is just full of negative thoughts, bizarre ruminating thoughts especially before bed time, fear and inability to mentally relax.
I am sorry we are going through this just because some idiot doctor put as in an AD for no serious reason. 

[Nic123]

11 minutes ago, JesusSavemefromWD said:

Whatever it is, it’s from the drugs. I was just wondering how can we determine if a drug induced neuroemotion is depression or anhedonia since they feel so much the same. No joy, lack of interest, no positive thinking, feeling emotion less ….I am not sure how u experience the “blank mind”, this is smg I am not experiencing. My brain is just full of negative thoughts, bizarre ruminating thoughts especially before bed time, fear and inability to mentally relax.
I am sorry we are going through this just because some idiot doctor put as in an AD for no serious reason. 

 

The best way i can really describe it is just a lack of brain activity, it literally feels just that. I can stare at a wall for 10 minutes if i wanted to easily without a single thought/feeling coming into my brain. I feel detached from my mind like all that exists are my eyes looking out on the world with nothing processing it. I may occasionally have a random thought but it has become so rare now. Before all this and before ssri's my mind used to be going 100 miles an hour all the time. So something absolutely isnt right with this. I completely just go through the motions daily now without much going on inside me, its absolutely excruciating every day and im considering suicide because of it. At this stage i havent had one moment of feeling like my old self. im really losing hope 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

9 minutes ago, Nic123 said:

 

The best way i can really describe it is just a lack of brain activity, it literally feels just that. I can stare at a wall for 10 minutes if i wanted to easily without a single thought/feeling coming into my brain. I feel detached from my mind like all that exists are my eyes looking out on the world with nothing processing it. I may occasionally have a random thought but it has become so rare now. Before all this and before ssri's my mind used to be going 100 miles an hour all the time. So something absolutely isnt right with this. I completely just go through the motions daily now without much going on inside me, its absolutely excruciating every day and im considering suicide because of it. At this stage i havent had one moment of feeling like my old self. im really losing hope 

The “all that exists is my eyes” rings a bell to me…. Do u also feel there is a “physical block” between u and ur brain, and do u feel like u see the world via these eyes but ur eyes are trapped inside ur head and u basically see through windows? If yes, then ur experiencing intense depersonalization. There are different forms and levels of DP , the above description (even though it sounds crazy talk) is how I have been experiencing my DP since I quit EVIL Zoloft. 

[JesusSavemefromWD]

Just now, JesusSavemefromWD said:

The “all that exists is my eyes” rings a bell to me…. Do u also feel there is a “physical block” between u and ur brain, and do u feel like u see the world via these eyes but ur eyes are trapped inside ur head and u basically see through windows? If yes, then ur experiencing intense depersonalization. There are different forms and levels of DP , the above description (even though it sounds crazy talk) is how I have been experiencing my DP since I quit EVIL Zoloft. 

Has the degree of this symptom change at all ? Even slightly? Unfortunately DP is a symptom that seems to take long time to go away, already a whole freaking year for me with minor improvements.

[Nic123]

1 hour ago, JesusSavemefromWD said:

Has the degree of this symptom change at all ? Even slightly? Unfortunately DP is a symptom that seems to take long time to go away, already a whole freaking year for me with minor improvements.

 

Honestly it doesn't feel like anything has changed, if it has it has been such miniscule and slow that i cant personally notice it. I felt like i was improving a couple months ago then no idea what happened i just kept getting worst and worst. Yes there absolutely feels like a block in my brain, even when i try to think it feels like something is blocking me from doing it, its such a bizzare feeling like i cant access my brain a lot of the time.

 

I got vaccinated a couple days ago and starting to get super paranoid that i have made my condition worst in some way. I seem to have devoloped full on hypochondria over meds now.

[JesusSavemefromWD]

20 hours ago, Nic123 said:

 

Honestly it doesn't feel like anything has changed, if it has it has been such miniscule and slow that i cant personally notice it. I felt like i was improving a couple months ago then no idea what happened i just kept getting worst and worst. Yes there absolutely feels like a block in my brain, even when i try to think it feels like something is blocking me from doing it, its such a bizzare feeling like i cant access my brain a lot of the time.

 

I got vaccinated a couple days ago and starting to get super paranoid that i have made my condition worst in some way. I seem to have devoloped full on hypochondria over meds now.

Well, if ur able to write a message there is definitely a communication with ur brain but I understand what ur experiencing cause I had this as well and it is probably the only symptom (along with face spams/twitches) that has completely subsided for me. I hope that gives u hope.

I am worried about getting the vaccine as well, but it’s better taking the risk to take the vaccine rather risking getting covid. I think the second would be much worst for a person in WD. How are u feeling now , 3 days, after taking the vaccine? 

[SouthernFreeze]

I just read your resting hart rate goes up the first 6 days after your second jab if that helps, I'm sure that would contribute to something. I actually believe it as my wife has been wearing a fit bit and her resting heart rate was up the first 3 days after her second jab. 

[Nic123]

I honestly can’t see this condition as “not permanent” in my case, every single freaking day is exactly the same. Brain dead, blank head. I’m certain it’s brain damage at this stage.

[Katy398]

On 10/8/2021 at 7:42 AM, Katy398 said:

When symptoms are recorded as lasting for many years this has become tough to read. Can anyone give any experience of their recovery from this? What did it look like? It feels like this Apathy Anhedonia emotional numbness, emotional anaesthesia community could do with some encouragement. 

I reiterate, has anyone recovered from this or is it as @Nic123says 

 

9 hours ago, Nic123 said:

brain damage at this stage.

 

[brassmonkey]

@Katy398 -- that it purely Nic's opinion. Emotional Blunting, which is often referred to here as Anhedonia, is one of the most common symptoms of ADWD. In fact it is one of the mechanisms by which ADs work. They make you feel nothing. It is one of the first symptoms to appear and can be one of the last to resolve. It can be very upsetting to experience, but there is no evidence that it is due to "brain damage".

 

Here is a repost of an article I wrote several years ago:

 

I Think I Have Anhedoina, But I Don’t Care

 

Anhedonia is one of those symptoms that really upsets people, and not with out cause.  It can be very unpleasant and disheartening. It is, however, a very important part of the healing/recovery process and needs to be embraced rather than feared.

 

I experienced anhedonia to some degree for a lot of my time on Paxil and during my taper off of it.  As I have mentioned before, I have done two major up doses while on Paxil. From 20mgai to 30mgai and again from 30mgai to 40mgai.  I first started to notice the anhedonia about a year into the change to 40mgai.  I had been going through a rough patch “life wise” for several years and thought that my lack of caring was due to the cumulative effects of life’s hard knocks.

 

During my downward spiral with the high dose of Paxil, drinking and continued life challenges, the anhediona continued to increase.  About the time I decided to do something about my life I pretty much didn’t care about anything.  I didn’t care enough to care about not caring. Until that flash of insight that set me on the path of righting my life.

It took getting sober and about two and a half years of tapering before I noticed any changes.  Another year and a half would pass before I really saw my emotions start to return.  From there it was a stead climb out of the black hole of emotionlessness. Once I made the jump to “0” things really started to improve. Today I still get small bouts that last for a few hours, but they are nothing like what it was in the beginning.  Now it’s more just normal emotional fluctuations like anyone would experience.

 

So, what did I do to get through it. Not a whole lot. I found that fighting against it only made things a whole lot worse. I found that accepting the anhedonia was much preferable to the alternatives of unrelenting anxiety and panic. I learned to look at anhedonia as a blessing in a way.  Without it I would have been feeling the over whelming panic and anxiety that is so common in WD.  Sure, I wasn't enjoying life, but I wasn't suffering either, and the loss of a happy life to it is only temporary. 

 

When it comes to WD, anhedonia is nature’s way of protecting us from the excruciating experience of constant panic attacks, nonstop anxiety, adrenaline rushes, cortisol spikes, palpitations, suicidal ideation, intrusive thoughts, and the like.  Your mind decides that it is better to feel nothing at all than to be put through the ringer 24/7 with emotions and sensations that wrack the body and soul and slow the healing/recover process to a snail’s pace.  When the mind is allowed to feel nothing, the body is then allowed to relax and direct its energy to where it really needs to be used. This provides for faster more complete healing, less painful WD symptoms and a better quality of life.

 

Yes, anhedonia is no fun.  Primarily because we make it that way.  We all want to regain our feelings as fast as possible.  But we are in a healing situation where the body needs to be allowed to do what it needs to do, because it knows best how to put itself back together.  Once we understand this, accept it, and stop fighting it we will start to heal at a faster rate and life will be much more pleasant as we do so.  

 

You can't fight against it.  This is a drug induced sensation that we have no control over.  Trying to fight it or overcome it just burns a lot of precious energy and causes a huge amount of frustration and anxiety because it doesn't help anything.  The emotions, feelings of joy, happiness, love, and excitement as well as creativity, ambition, and a whole lot more are being chemically suppressed and for the time being are just not accessible. Acceptance of the situation is the best path to follow.  As you reduce your dose further and your body has a chance to heal your emotions and all will slowly start to come back, but it does take a lot of time.

 

One thing I did learn was to look for and cherish all the little moments of joy.  They are popping up all the time but are very fleeting and easily overlooked.  When you look at a flower, instead of thinking "darn, I can't enjoy this flower", watch for the momentary little flash of joy that that flower brings when you first see it, and acknowledge it when it happens.  Stop and try to see the beauty in things, even if you don't feel it. "Wow, the sun on those clouds is really pretty, one day soon I will feel it again".  Stop and recognize the joy/wonder in the scene, but let your body react in its own manner.  This exercise will help reestablish the neural pathways and little by little dig out and strengthen the feelings. It is one of the symptoms that is really good to practice AAF on, as there is nothing you can do about it but live with it as best as you can.  Like a bad house guest, ignore it long enough and it will eventually go away.

 

Anhedonia can be a real relationship challenge.  I went through that for quite some time.  I learned that even though I couldn't call up or experience the feelings they were still there inside, just not accessible.  At the time I had been happily married for 33 years but couldn't summon up any of the feelings I had for my wife.  I mentioned this, and it lead to several "late night discussions".  Once we both understood that it was a manifestation of the drugs things started to improve.  After I had been tapering off of the Paxil for a while the feelings slowly started to show themselves, until, now I am more in love with her then ever.  We celebrated number 39 a couple of months ago.  It's a big test of a relationship, but if the feelings are true in the first place and both people trust each other it is something that can be gotten through and make the relationship all the stronger.

 

Like everything else we feel or don't feel in WD, Anhedonia comes and goes in waves and windows.  It is, however, frequently one of the last things to go.  Some people have it bad until after they jump off, while for others is clears up as they taper.  Given a lifetime, the time spent in ADWD/recovery is insignificant.  We have all had our "life" cruelly taken from us and want it back now.  But to get it back fully we need to let the WD/recovery run its course, put on a brave face, and accept whatever it throws at us, whether we can feel it or not.  With time, the healing will happen and when it knows we are ready, our minds will allow us to feel our full range of emotions again and life will be even better.

Edited November 3, 2021 by brassmonkey
typo

[Nic123]

I have no idea what to do to feel mildly capable of going on. Just being awake is excruciatingly painful, nothing I can do to escape it either. I sit aimlessly staring at nothing most of the time. Past 2 days have been even worst after being on high dose of ibuprofen and anti stomach acid drug after heart inflammation because of vaccine. Just hope that wasn’t enough to undo all the healing I’ve done

[JesusSavemefromWD]

I feel the same …. Can’t help wondering if reinstating a low dose of the poison which brought this can help…. It’s a whole freaking year for me at this point. We can’t loose hope thought Nic there must be a way out, either time or low dose reinstatement. Forgive me if I have asked u this before but did u feel so horrible while taking this poison? Or everything became worst after u jumped to zero?  

[Nic123]

I could never bring myself to take anymore of it ever again. I’m losing hope again though. I’ve again started going downhill if that was even possible. 
 

how long does one wait? 10 months already feels like an absolute lifetime being like this. 

[Kat66]

I don’t know if it’s of any help, particularly to @Nic123 and @JesusSavemefromWD, but after 3 months of a 2mg reinstatement of citalopram I’m finally starting to see an improvement in my WD symptoms, including anhedonia. I didn’t want to start taking it again as I just wanted it out of my system, but at least now I can function more and can start to look forward. And when I do start to taper off slowly at least I’ve only got 2mg to deal with. Hang in there. X

[JesusSavemefromWD]

18 minutes ago, Kat66 said:

I don’t know if it’s of any help, particularly to @Nic123 and @JesusSavemefromWD, but after 3 months of a 2mg reinstatement of citalopram I’m finally starting to see an improvement in my WD symptoms, including anhedonia. I didn’t want to start taking it again as I just wanted it out of my system, but at least now I can function more and can start to look forward. And when I do start to taper off slowly at least I’ve only got 2mg to deal with. Hang in there. X

Thanks for the advice. I do feel my only hope is reinstating but it’s been a year I am off and it is too risky. You were smart enough to reinstate shortly after discontinuation . I wasn’t expecting to suffer so long after just few weeks on Zoloft so I tried my best to avoid reinstating…. MEGA mistake!! MEGA ….

[JesusSavemefromWD]

2 hours ago, Kat66 said:

I don’t know if it’s of any help, particularly to @Nic123 and @JesusSavemefromWD, but after 3 months of a 2mg reinstatement of citalopram I’m finally starting to see an improvement in my WD symptoms, including anhedonia. I didn’t want to start taking it again as I just wanted it out of my system, but at least now I can function more and can start to look forward. And when I do start to taper off slowly at least I’ve only got 2mg to deal with. Hang in there. X

Based on ur signature u reinstated within less than a month, right? Did u feel worst in the begging of reinstating or u gradually started feeling better?

[Nic123]

Does anyone wonder if what they are going though is just severe depression? Possibly triggered by the messed up brain chemicals from the ssri withdrawals? I keep looking for answers but I know there are none. No one can help us I know that and it’s ok.  
 

but do people with depression really have complete nothingness inside? It seems hard to believe. Atm my life goal is just to feel ANYTHING again. Even it was just endless crying 

[Altostrata]

30 minutes ago, Nic123 said:

Possibly triggered by the messed up brain chemicals from the ssri withdrawals?

 

This is not "severe depression". This is withdrawal syndrome, or an iatrogenic condition.

 

If your problem started when you went off, with other obvious withdrawal symptoms, you do not have "relapse" or emergence of a new, exotic psychiatric disorder, especially one you didn't have before drugs.

 

Emotional anesthesia is a very common effect of going off all kinds of psychotropics. It's well-known in those who go off addictive drugs. Our members report it ALL THE TIME. Like other withdrawal symptoms, it very gradually goes away. 

 

It helps to exercise your enjoyment muscle as much as you can.  Lower your expectations, but do things that are even a little bit enjoyable. Keep doing them. See 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Journaling / Journalling / Writing therapy / Therapeutic Writing

 

Withdrawal dialogues and encouragement

 

"Is it always going to be like this?"

 

The importance of recognizing you're feeling good

 

"Forest bathing" reduces cortisol, aids mood, immune system

[JesusSavemefromWD]

31 minutes ago, Nic123 said:

Does anyone wonder if what they are going though is just severe depression? Possibly triggered by the messed up brain chemicals from the ssri withdrawals? I keep looking for answers but I know there are none. No one can help us I know that and it’s ok.  
 

but do people with depression really have complete nothingness inside? It seems hard to believe. Atm my life goal is just to feel ANYTHING again. Even it was just endless crying 

I raises this question myself somewhere here, is it AD triggered depression or AD triggered anhedonia ? I find hard to figure out what it is this emptiness inside me that simply hurts a lot ….. but I am crying a lot every day , I don’t know if that indicates depression over anhedonia… God damn Zoloft and all ADs…. How many months are u off now? I am 12 months and one week 

[Kat66]

On 10/25/2021 at 2:18 AM, JesusSavemefromWD said:

Based on ur signature u reinstated within less than a month, right? Did u feel worst in the begging of reinstating or u gradually started feeling better?

@JesusSavemefromWD I am getting windows now ( a few months on) which I wasn't getting initially upon reinstatement - but when I go back to a wave, it's just as bad as at the start. how are you feeling?