☼ Cymbaltawithdrawal5600: Introduction

[Addax]

CW, I am very sorry you are experiencing so much dread and pain and I hope your therapy appointment provides some level of comfort. First appointments are sometimes difficult to judge... And even if she knows little or nothing about withdrawal she can learn. My current therapist whom I started seeing because I couldn't seem to get past the fear of what I experienced last fall knew very little of withdrawal, and didn't know it was possible with Prozac. He knows now, and I've found solace and comfort in that. Just being able to vent and talk incessantly about the experience of withdrawal, and have 50 minutes in which I can be self centered without feeling guilty has been an enormous relief.

 

You are made of strong stuff? VERY strong stuff! You've proved that repeatedly. But being strong doesn't mean that you don't get tired. Being tired isn't a weakening, it's a signal to rest and recoup so you can come back stronger. That's how our brains and body work.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Thanks Addax.

 

It is not so much dread I am experiencing but white hot immediate murderous feeling anger. Another endless argument with my mother today and I wanted to smack her and then kill myself. I don't even know it is coming, she just says things and I react to them. I don't know how to stop, it just keeps happening. I have to get out of the house I know but where to go? Sit in the library all day? Drive around aimlessly in my car all day and waste gas? There is no where I want to go and nothing I want to buy, I already have so much stuff cluttering up the house.

 

This morning it was really bad, the anger and self loathing. I ended up taking half a klonipin, my first drug in 30 months and all it has done is given me a headache. I don't feel any better.

 

I don't know about the therapist, that it will do any good at all. She does something called 'Solution Based Therapy', I did some reading up about it. They tell you all the good things you have already done and then tell you to apply that to some problem you have. I told her over the phone I was not looking for that, I should have cancelled the appointment because she doesn't plan on doing what I asked.

So anger: just don't be angry, OK? it's bad for you. Control your temper and don't get mad at your mother. She is senile and doesn't know what she is doing anyway.

 

I never used to be this dysfunctional. How did the drugs do this to me? If the drugs didn't do it then this is the result of all of the mistakes and selfishness I have done my whole life. I have to pay for this.

 

Last night I went to a Depression and bipolar disorder support group I found on the internet. 7 people and a facilitator that shared also. People just shared what happened to them during the week. Some on meds, one poor lady said the doc just upped her drugs to very high doses the week before because she was so depressed, taking 160 mg of some drug, 250 mg lamictal and 5 mg xanax and she is glad, the doctor told her she needs it and she does what the doctor says. (Are these my people now?) They rattled off their diagnoses and meds as if they were quite used to telling people about them. Most of it was interesting listening till it got to the last guy who told a long involved story about someone else. I thought I was going to get up and run out of the place. I guess these are my people now.

 

I was really upset afterwards. These aren't my people, are they? Is this where I belong now? With people drugged to the gills or else smoking pot to control their bipolar and depression? Listening to them talk about the problems of others and not themselves?

 

Where do I go now and what do I do? I have to get out of the house and do something but where does someone go who has an explosive temper and is irritable from being waked up 2-3 time a night because she is taking care of a dog with damaged skin who chews noisily on herself and wakes me up?

 

How much longer am I going to feel this horrid uselessness? I used to be so smart and I had a few friends. Lost the friends, lost the clients, have no clue what to do now. It is probably Wal-Mart next. How long do you think I'll be able to last there?

 

I don't know where to go or what to do. This is why I am feeling so bad, I don't know how to dig myself out if this hole at my age.

 

Sorry for whining. I know you can't help. Let you know if the therapist cures me, I doubt it. I wish I were as eloquent as Petu, I am not I am whiny spoiled angry me instead. I hate everything about myself today.

[Meimeiquest]

CW, I am so sorry it is so hard. Some days I adopt the persona of a bipolar person who is going to manage it without meds. And I hang out at psycheducation.org. You might not be feeling up to it right now, but it has to be better than that kind of bipolar support group. No, they are not your people, although they are all valuable. I try to fight like I'm fighting bipolar...and take meds like I couldn't have it. I wish I had a magic wand for you! Hope the meeting goes well!

[LoveandLight]

Just to say I sincerely hope you feel better..it sounds terrible what your going through and I'm sorry..xx

[Wildflower0214]

CW, do you feel this is WD? I believe it is. But, are you able to sort out what issues you had before WD, from what this is?

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I had anger and depression before and a feeling of persistent worthlessness. And the feeling of never being loved. Seeing my mother every day reinforces that feeling. Can't get away from it and it makes me even angrier that the only way to escape is to leave the house.

 

Thanks Meimei but I don't know how to be 'bipolar', just depressed and I have that down to a science. I need to get out of the house but I am convinced that any job I get will fire me in short order, it has happened that way my whole life. I have come to the end of the line it seems. I never used to have a problem but my age is staring me in the face now and it has me doomed before I even start.

 

Lovenandlight, thanks for your words of well wishing. This self hatred is crushing and though I can get moments of relief, they are short lived. I guess I am tired of constantly reading topics on depression and anger and self hatred and unforgiveness. Any insights are short lived and do not erase the core feelings of pure hate.

 

God, I hate sounding like this. I just don't want to be me and be here anymore. But if I don't kill myself, what do I do? Get up again tomorrow and go through the same thing over and over. It is a lot different, not being in acute wd. At least that was something it took all of my energy to fight. There is nothing here for me to fight, just feelings.

[LoveandLight]

Yep I totally get the feeling if self hate..it is totally awful..!!

[LoveandLight]

 

Have you heard of tonglen? It is a meditation to develop and extend compassion..so the idea is to feel compassion for people suffering in the world..so it's generally not hard to image all the suffering and generate compassion..this part is the easiest, then people you like, people you have issues with and then finally you can turn this huge compassion generated from relating to human beings and their suffering back to yourself I can give up a link or look up/follow on youtube.

 

I really wish you some relief..xx

[btdt]

Thanks Addax.

 

It is not so much dread I am experiencing but white hot immediate murderous feeling anger. Another endless argument with my mother today and I wanted to smack her and then kill myself. I don't even know it is coming, she just says things and I react to them. I don't know how to stop, it just keeps happening. I have to get out of the house I know but where to go? Sit in the library all day? Drive around aimlessly in my car all day and waste gas? There is no where I want to go and nothing I want to buy, I already have so much stuff cluttering up the house.

 

This morning it was really bad, the anger and self loathing. I ended up taking half a klonipin, my first drug in 30 months and all it has done is given me a headache. I don't feel any better.

 

I don't know about the therapist, that it will do any good at all. She does something called 'Solution Based Therapy', I did some reading up about it. They tell you all the good things you have already done and then tell you to apply that to some problem you have. I told her over the phone I was not looking for that, I should have cancelled the appointment because she doesn't plan on doing what I asked.

So anger: just don't be angry, OK? it's bad for you. Control your temper and don't get mad at your mother. She is senile and doesn't know what she is doing anyway.

 

I never used to be this dysfunctional. How did the drugs do this to me? If the drugs didn't do it then this is the result of all of the mistakes and selfishness I have done my whole life. I have to pay for this.

 

Last night I went to a Depression and bipolar disorder support group I found on the internet. 7 people and a facilitator that shared also. People just shared what happened to them during the week. Some on meds, one poor lady said the doc just upped her drugs to very high doses the week before because she was so depressed, taking 160 mg of some drug, 250 mg lamictal and 5 mg xanax and she is glad, the doctor told her she needs it and she does what the doctor says. (Are these my people now?) They rattled off their diagnoses and meds as if they were quite used to telling people about them. Most of it was interesting listening till it got to the last guy who told a long involved story about someone else. I thought I was going to get up and run out of the place. I guess these are my people now.

 

I was really upset afterwards. These aren't my people, are they? Is this where I belong now? With people drugged to the gills or else smoking pot to control their bipolar and depression? Listening to them talk about the problems of others and not themselves?

 

Where do I go now and what do I do? I have to get out of the house and do something but where does someone go who has an explosive temper and is irritable from being waked up 2-3 time a night because she is taking care of a dog with damaged skin who chews noisily on herself and wakes me up?

 

How much longer am I going to feel this horrid uselessness? I used to be so smart and I had a few friends. Lost the friends, lost the clients, have no clue what to do now. It is probably Wal-Mart next. How long do you think I'll be able to last there?

 

I don't know where to go or what to do. This is why I am feeling so bad, I don't know how to dig myself out if this hole at my age.

 

Sorry for whining. I know you can't help. Let you know if the therapist cures me, I doubt it. I wish I were as eloquent as Petu, I am not I am whiny spoiled angry me instead. I hate everything about myself today.

 

You asked some questions CW I think I have some answers so I will answer them.  If they are wrong answers for you I did my best to tell the truth as I see it... and it may not be right for every one but this is what I have learned through my experience with drugs and withdrawal. 

 

"white hot immediate murderous feeling anger" " I don't know how to stop, it just keeps happening"

Neuro Emotion 

I could not stop them either... I avoided people as best I could.  I knew it could happen and be all over before I knew it. In time it gets a bit better and eventually stopped unless I get ill in which case it can come back ...like a lot of wd symptoms illness great strain brings it back for me. 

 

"There is no where I want to go and nothing I want to buy, I already have so much stuff cluttering up the house"

Ditto.  It was around this time I started seeking.  I had few options I used the net and library tried various therapeutic self help things many I had already done years ago so I skipped them... a few different types of meditation books other eastern ideas... and found "the power of now"  which I liked a great deal.  I put a lot of time and energy into working that book it truly helped me. 

 

"I don't know about the therapist, that it will do any good at all"

I tried some therapy again and joined a group too... the group lasted one session I could not sit there with those folks talking stone out of their heads on psych drugs I did not want to be a member I am not a believer... I ran away.  Therapy was ok I was heard at least but no answers were found there. I needed to be able to say I tried everything since I had already tried all the drugs. 

 

``I never used to be this dysfunctional. How did the drugs do this to me? If the drugs didn't do it then this is the result of all of the mistakes and selfishness I have done my whole life. I have to pay for this.

It is the drugs that is why we all have so much in common here... drugs drugs drugs... I could say it once or a million times I could not be more certain of it. 

 

 

``Last night I went to a Depression and bipolar disorder support group....`` I guess these are my people now

Nope these are not your people... unless you want to buy in and give up but I think you know too much already to do that. I can`t stand it either they are not my people either... your my people... here is where my people are the ones who though they struggle will one day be free... one day you will be free too. More free than they will ever be they are their disorder they bought in... so far. 

 

``Where do I go now and what do I do? I have to get out of the house and do something but where does someone go who has an explosive temper and is irritable...

I found the beach to be a good and any other park with trees and water... library too was good as I needed and still do need quiet a  lot.

 

``How much longer am I going to feel this horrid uselessness? I used to be so smart and I had a few friends. Lost the friends, lost the clients, have no clue what to do now. It is probably Wal-Mart next. How long do you think I'll be able to last there?``

Not sure it takes a few years you have some time in ... thinking that your innately valuable were born valuable and will die valuable no matter what you do... I had to repeat this as a mantra to fight back some days. I don`t know what you or I will do but for me it will not be walmart that would be a bad idea for them and myself... we won`t know till we get there. 

 

I think I need to stay away from people on those other sites and they make me crazy... I just make them mad anyway cause I am always telling them it is the drug... and I can`t lay down with folks who are content to sit all day and knit and make a group meeting once a wk to talk about their feelings while the gobble up the pills... I don`t fit either cause I don`t believe it... I don`t want to be brain dead... I want to be alive and have a functional brain and do things that are exciting and fun to me... I can`t lay down and play dead yet I can`t move ahead yet either... so I know how you feel... yet in a lot of ways I am further ehead in the process than you are and get where you are... it will get better.  

 

In my heart of hearts I think I would be done now if it were not for the accident and more drugs... infections and illnesses that pushed me back down.... I think your going to be done with this eventually and move on with your life. 

 

I know it is not the best life to have to suffer but one day and end to what is going on now will come. 

I wish you peace CW... and a good life. 

 

 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I will write more tomorrow but all I want to say right now is that I can not believe how stupid I can be. The therapist never showed up and I think had no intention of doing so. My appointment was for 5PM on a Friday. No one makes appointments like that, I can't believe I thought the person was serious. Never called me either. Took all my willpower not to run my car into a canal on the way away from there.

[btdt]

There is no reason for a person not to show up to an appointment at 5pm on a Friday... I have had plenty appointments at that time.  This is not your fault in any respect. 

I am sorry your feeling bad but this is not your doing and in no way reflects on you.  It may well be something unpreventable kept the therapist from making the appointment time will tell. 

I wish you peace

[ikam]

I will write more tomorrow but all I want to say right now is that I can not believe how stupid I can be. The therapist never showed up and I think had no intention of doing so. My appointment was for 5PM on a Friday. No one makes appointments like that, I can't believe I thought the person was serious. Never called me either. Took all my willpower not to run my car into a canal on the way away from there.

Sorry to hear this...

How are you today?

[Pugknows]

CW, so sorry this happened to you. Obviously, she's unprofessional and this is no reflection on you. It is another stressor, however, but you'll get past it and move on. Hugs to you.

[btdt]

Maybe the best second thought would be that it was unpreventable... maybe her mouth was sewn shut but elves and she could not call to cancel...or some other actually real life event that stopped her showing something sudden a car accident... sudden calamity in her family.  Wait and see... in the mean time it still says not much about you and a lot about her. 

 

I know your reaction to things is off now... I would encourage you to see some self care now... it is often in this sort of state that I found a new took because I needed it.  I will also admit to going to bed with my heating pad and ocean cd for the day... yes whatever works... the heating pad and ocean cd were once not known by me either. Until I needed them I did not find them. 

 

I know sudden impulses are disconcerting and that sometimes the after affects linger.... please know this is your body still healing and it will pass too. 

 

I wish you  peace

[Muddles]

cymbalta - sorry to hear it's still so bad!

 

I am suffering a lot of the hatred towards everyone around me to the point of not wanting to be around the children at all. I hate everyone and life so much I want to die too.

 

This is almost definitely the drugs...no doubt in my mind what-so-ever.

 

You will come out of this...just think of how well you were doing a few months ago...you will get back there...trust me.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Btdt,

 

I have to tell you that when you wrote that answer to 'where are my people' I was really upset when you said 'they are here'. I have never found a group in real life where I thought I belonged and to think the only place where there are people like me is online is more than I can bear. I am so lonely for people and they aren't anywhere for me, except here.

 

Never found them in real life either. I never felt like I fit in anywhere. It occurs to me that one of the reasons I don't fit with my mother is that we are too different: she was into cooking and sewing and raising kids, I was into computers and beading and never wanted kids. No common ground except birth. No wonder we never talk to each other.

 

I have to get out of the house more, I cannot sit here. No matter how hard I try, I cannot make it ok to do that. I get all kinds of upsetting feelings inside and the stress is too hard to contain. So yesterday, while I was still in town, I decided to go to an AA meeting. A lady came over and talked to me, asked me all kinds of questions. I think I told her something about being off antidepressants and she made the remark that she would be on them for the rest of her life. I started to say I thought I would be too and she got called away. So I think I will be hearing more of that in meetings, people who get put on them to cope with life. Alcoholism as a gateway to a medicated life. I thought at one time meds were my answer too.

 

As I sat there and listened to people speak, I remembered my past in places like that, remembered the lingo and the readings. It kept my mind off myself for a bit till some guy started telling a long involved story about someone else and I got restless, just like the other day. I kind of feel like a fraud, being there in those meetings, because I don't think I am in danger of going back to drinking but I need people contact. I think I will keep going, if only to have someone else's problems to listen to.

 

As I was listen to all the 'God' talk I realized why I have always been upset by that and by religious people and churches: I don't understand the feeling of love and if God is supposed to love me, I have never felt it. How do you fix something like that?

 

Muddles, I see you have added a reply as I was composing. The kind of feelings you are having right now will most definitely go away, it will just take some more time. What I am having problems with is something I don't think occurs to very many people. During the time I found myself off medication I also reached retirement age with no savings and no ability to start a new career or even get a job. Living with a dying person, losing friends and clients. You aren't going to have the intensity of upset that I am having so if you can just hold on. your life with the children should get back to the way it was. When it does, you'll be able to look back and see that it was not as long a time period as you thought it was going to be. Hold fast to that thought. Plus you are way younger and you have more people in your life. I've always had a hard time of it with others and that is making this harder.

 

Btdt, I think you are wrong about the therapist, and tell the truth I did not want to see her anyway, she was going to use a therapy on me that was different from what I asked for tho her bio said she did the one I wanted. But the simple fact is, that even though I had misgivings, I showed up for the appointment and she did not. I don't think it was an accident. She has not called me today either.

 

I plan on just going to more AA meetings, I need somewhere to go. I can't sit here. The thing about God is I have to convince myself that he loves me and if I cannot be convinced, I get nothing. It is all on me and if I don't believe then that is just too bad. I never fit in in churches either, another place where my people aren't. And I remember now, I never wanted the people in AA to be my people either. They were when I needed them but when I didn't? I wanted to be with the smart normal people, anywhere but where I was. I did not want to be an Adult Child of an Alcoholic either. Or a Codependent. I used them when I needed them but as soon as I could I got away to be by myself. More comfortable alone and at least being alone, no one could hurt me. What an awful way to live, being convinced no on wants you around because it is you not them, that has the problem.

 

What do I have to do to be able to just sit here in peace without being tormented by my thoughts?

[Addax]

What about an adult education class? A beading class? Jewelry making?

 

I'm disgusted that the therapist didn't show up! I know of plenty therapists who schedule well into Friday evenings and even have Saturday morning appointments.

[Pugknows]

I hear the desperation in your post, CW. I also feel the same about AA meetings and churches. My relationship with God is a very private one. It is sacred and sharing it with others is impossible for me. I'm so sad about the torment you are suffering right now. I feel it, if that makes sense. I don't know what I would do without God to pull me up and out of this. I would truly be alone and I don't think I'd make it to the other side of the darkness. He is with you, CW. You have to believe it and open up your soul to Him. What do you have to lose at this point?

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Warning: this is a nasty negative rant. Don't read it if you aren't feeling well.

 

Thank you for the ideas, Addax. I am already a proficient jewelry maker but what I have realized is that every old retired lady around here makes jewelry, the craft fairs and church bazaars are full of them, tables upon tables of stuff they can't sell. To keep feeling better you have to keep producing this stuff? So what do I do with everything I have made? Can't sell it so can't just make it, sell it and then buy more stuff so I can keep making it.....

 

Take a jewelry class? See above, plus I am out money for a class to make something I don't really need or want. I want to feel better inside, to be filled with good loving thoughts, at ease in my skin, comfortable sitting here waiting for my mother to die. Then happy thoughts of how I will survive after that. Jewelry making is not doing that for me.

 

I read this on Craigslist (in a roundabout way). There is an ad for people to take a brief online depression course. A computerized treatment for depression. I found a link to this study.

 

"A new study by Florida State University researchers has found that people who were verbally abused as children grow up to be self-critical adults prone to depression and anxiety."

 

Um, no **** sherlock? My parents talked to us kids that way, I grew up to be depressed and angry at the world. Their solution?

 

"We must try to educate parents about the long-term effects of verbal abuse on their children,"

 

Yep, that's it. Write articles telling parents it is not a good ideal to talk to kids that way. That will fix things for sure in the future. IF those people read those articles and IF they stop running their kids down. But the cure for what to do now that the problem has been found? Nothing in that article.

 

That is what I am so disgusted and angry about. Constant articles defining the problem, and vague ideas for treatment. Or try to find a therapist to help. What if the therapist doesn't want me? Sit around making jewelry hoping that will magically make me feel better? I'll be still having the ugly thoughts while I am waiting to feel better.

 

I hate life.

 

What's the cure for this?

 

"Childhood abuse of any type has the potential to influence self-critical tendencies," she said. "Although sexual and physical abuse don't directly supply the critical words like 'You're worthless,' the overall message conveyed by these kinds of abuse clearly does."

 

Tell me, what is the cure? God? How do I convince myself God loves me if I cannot convince myself that my parents even loved me while they were constantly verbally abusing me because of their own upbringing?

 

Beginning to look like the only cure is brain numbing drugs. How much longer can I continue to wait for some mysterious thing in my brain to heal so I can feel good again? And I won't be feeling good unless I am doing something. Like going to church, feeding the homeless, making bracelets. What the hell for?

 

Not gonna happen. I have to work for it. Make jewelry, yeah that will do it. Take a class, that's the answer. Do something. Feel like **** do it anyway hope that maybe this time I'll feel better.

 

Sorry Addax, I don't feel well today.

 

Pug, open my soul how? No one tells you how, they just expect you to figure it out. Well, I'm dumb and I cannot figure it out.

 

I am glad it helps you. I am dead inside but I am supposed to believe that God is there for me if I open my soul. Oh, hey. I just opened it. Still feel like ****. Oh I forgot. god is mysterious. I am not supposed to know how this works. Just hang on till it is time to die.

 

Sorry, I just don't know how to do this.

[Pugknows]

Neither do I, CW. I'm in a very dark place too.

[compsports]

Warning: this is a nasty negative rant. Don't read it if you aren't feeling well.

 

Thank you for the ideas, Addax. I am already a proficient jewelry maker but what I have realized is that every old retired lady around here makes jewelry, the craft fairs and church bazaars are full of them, tables upon tables of stuff they can't sell. To keep feeling better you have to keep producing this stuff? So what do I do with everything I have made? Can't sell it so can't just make it, sell it and then buy more stuff so I can keep making it.....

 

Take a jewelry class? See above, plus I am out money for a class to make something I don't really need or want. I want to feel better inside, to be filled with good loving thoughts, at ease in my skin, comfortable sitting here waiting for my mother to die. Then happy thoughts of how I will survive after that. Jewelry making is not doing that for me.

 

I read this on Craigslist (in a roundabout way). There is an ad for people to take a brief online depression course. A computerized treatment for depression. I found a link to this study.

 

"A new study by Florida State University researchers has found that people who were verbally abused as children grow up to be self-critical adults prone to depression and anxiety."

 

Um, no **** sherlock? My parents talked to us kids that way, I grew up to be depressed and angry at the world. Their solution?

 

"We must try to educate parents about the long-term effects of verbal abuse on their children,"

 

Yep, that's it. Write articles telling parents it is not a good ideal to talk to kids that way. That will fix things for sure in the future. IF those people read those articles and IF they stop running their kids down. But the cure for what to do now that the problem has been found? Nothing in that article.

 

That is what I am so disgusted and angry about. Constant articles defining the problem, and vague ideas for treatment. Or try to find a therapist to help. What if the therapist doesn't want me? Sit around making jewelry hoping that will magically make me feel better? I'll be still having the ugly thoughts while I am waiting to feel better.

 

I hate life.

 

What's the cure for this?

 

"Childhood abuse of any type has the potential to influence self-critical tendencies," she said. "Although sexual and physical abuse don't directly supply the critical words like 'You're worthless,' the overall message conveyed by these kinds of abuse clearly does."

 

Tell me, what is the cure? God? How do I convince myself God loves me if I cannot convince myself that my parents even loved me while they were constantly verbally abusing me because of their own upbringing?

 

Beginning to look like the only cure is brain numbing drugs. How much longer can I continue to wait for some mysterious thing in my brain to heal so I can feel good again? And I won't be feeling good unless I am doing something. Like going to church, feeding the homeless, making bracelets. What the hell for?

 

Not gonna happen. I have to work for it. Make jewelry, yeah that will do it. Take a class, that's the answer. Do something. Feel like **** do it anyway hope that maybe this time I'll feel better.

 

Sorry Addax, I don't feel well today.

 

Pug, open my soul how? No one tells you how, they just expect you to figure it out. Well, I'm dumb and I cannot figure it out.

 

I am glad it helps you. I am dead inside but I am supposed to believe that God is there for me if I open my soul. Oh, hey. I just opened it. Still feel like ****. Oh I forgot. god is mysterious. I am not supposed to know how this works. Just hang on till it is time to die.

 

Sorry, I just don't know how to do this.

CW, I understand your feelings of frustration in being provided vague answers to serious problems and not knowing what to do.  I wish I had better answers for you but just wanted to let you know i hear what you are saying.

 

CS

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Pug, this hurts me that I cannot say anything to help you, I cannot even help myself. I know that everyone always gets better from the acute phase of withdrawal, everyone. Some take longer than others is all but I've been here a long time and I have seen it. And there are countless others in the outside world that do not even come to online forums that get better all the time. That is all I can tell you and if you don't believe me, I have nothing else.I got over all the physical stuff. I will probably always have ringing in my ears but the only lingering thing other than that is I still cannot sleep past 6:45 AM and I have no feelings of pleasure about anything. Deep depression and easy crying. I have to just live with it because there isn't a cure for it. No cure for antidepressant induced depression.

 

It is these life problems I have (depression, anger and irritability, inability to love and feel loved), I am so sick of having and dwelling upon them all of the time. It will be so much worse when my mother is gone, I won't even have a human presence near anymore. I am out of ideas that will actually help and have a lasting change. I keep going around in circles. I am getting no pleasure form any activity I attempt. That is why the non appointment with the therapist caused me to think about suicide. All that pent up stress and anger, no outlet for it but to destroy myself because she was not there to destroy.

 

CS, thanks for stopping in, I know people are supporting me and I am so very grateful. I was happy to hear you made it through the surgery!

 

I have just spent the last hour reading all of the volunteer and event and general listings on craigslist, found lots of stuff I'd love to do but the truth of it is, it is all one-time stuff for me because it is so darn far away. Everything is far away from where I am, out here in the sticks. Any interesting volunteer opportunity that I think I could be remotely interested in is miles away. I can do it once but then what? An outing for a day then back to sitting here.

 

I am only needed on this earth to go to the store and make sure there is food in the house for my mother to eat. Somehow that has to be enough, right?

[compsports]

CW,

 

Is it possible perhaps not to expect pleasure from an activity you attempt and just do it?  If you get pleasure great but if not, no big deal.  I don't mean that to sound cavalier by the way but I guess my point is when I haven't expected pleasure from things, every now and then I am pleasantly surprised when it results.

 

HUGS!

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

[Don't read this, another sniveling ungrateful rant. Iggy and nomeaning would be proud and so happy to know that I am getting what I deserve. That's what I get for complaining about another poster. I get to experience it first hand. Serves me right.]

 

Oh I do this all day long. I get no pleasure out of working jigsaw puzzles on the internet all day but I do it anyway. I get no pleasure out of driving into town to go to a nonexistent therapist but I did it anyway. I do everything every day getting no pleasure or sense of accomplishment out of it. I have no idea why I should expect anything more. Who says I should feel good about life? I am forcing myself to read a book I am not interested in because people say, get a book to read, you'll feel better. Ok. Not a real good idea.

 

The persistent depression makes me think about killing myself so the pain will stop. I can't seem to get used to feeling this way. If I could enjoy crying all of the time and feeling so bad I want to die then this would be a piece of cake. But it is not happening yet.

 

I should instead pray to god to keep the misery coming so I can learn how to get used to it. Because it is not going away and circumstances aren't changing either. I guess I have had my fun life already. Time to pay the piper.

 

**** therapy. embrace misery.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I just came back from the grocery store. I remember what a feeling of good anticipation felt like. As I was walking toward the dairy counter, I remembered I needed creamer. I like the hazelnut flavored kind, full of hfcs. My feelings leapt in anticipation of tasting it tomorrow morning in my coffee.

 

Except that that feeling is addiction, not pleasure.

[compsports]

I just came back from the grocery store. I remember what a feeling of good anticipation felt like. As I was walking toward the dairy counter, I remembered I needed creamer. I like the hazelnut flavored kind, full of hfcs. My feelings leapt in anticipation of tasting it tomorrow morning in my coffee.

 

Except that that feeling is addiction, not pleasure.

Well, can an addiction to something be a pleasure?  I think it can.

[Addax]

I wish I could be more helpful. I meant the classes more as a social thing, a group thing, something other than being at home, not necessarily to learning or money making thing.

 

Living in "the sticks" makes everything that much more difficult, I have no doubt. I'm not going to patronize you with more suggestions, plus other then tele-mental, I don't know what's available to you in your area. I hear your pain, frustration and anger and will be around to support you however I can.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Oh Addax, I am so sorry about the way I responded to you, I could just kick myself! I have been wracking my brain for months now, trying to latch onto something to do to drag myself out of this deep hole. Sure I could take a craft class but then what? A temporary fix at best. What I need is an idea of something to do that will have me feeling useful again. I am just not able to think of anything and I am staring at a very ugly future soon if I don't think of something. Each day I just sit here it is getting harder to move.

 

Yes you are probably right, the way to get started is to just do something, anything.

 

First thing I have to do is get this dog out of my house. I cannot believe how much it has disrupted life around here. My mom did not tell me until tonight when I wanted to get out to another AA meeting that the dog has been barking and howling every time I leave. And waking me up all night has not been helpful. Maybe when she is gone I will settle a bit and can think of a plan.

 

Addax, I do so appreciate you trying to help and I am so sorry I said what I did. I don't want my ugliness to hurt the people here, it is bad enough that I am hurting. I don't want to spread it, I just wanted to get it outside of me and so I dumped it here. I'll try to edit my posts a bit better so they aren't so abrasive.

[WiggleIt]

CW, maybe nobody feels like they completely belong anywhere. Maybe there is no one single group that we ever fir perfectly into. Maybe we here online are SOME of your people, but some of your other people are out there in the real world. Maybe it's a tall order to expect to get everything you need from one place or one group. I don't even think married couples have that. Even people who adore each other and are committed to each other for a lifetime need kids and mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters, or cousins and coworkers and other interests in order to have complete lives.

 

Maybe a complete life isn't finding all the answers in one place, but constructing your own answer out of a variety of pieces of life.

 

Maybe you'll think I'm talking out of my ass. I did not have any emotional or mental hurdles before going on the medication, so I'm not sure if my advice is even applicable, because I know we have very different backgrounds. But I do hope that maybe something I said actually will help.

[Petunia]

I've been sitting here for almost 2 hours, trying to decide if I should post something or not.  I so much don't want to make things any worse for you than they already are.  But from out here I can see a pattern, maybe at times you see it too.

 

Yesterday, or maybe it was the day before I read the latest posts on your thread and had the same thoughts.  Perhaps you do still have some withdrawal stuff going on, I'm almost certain you do.  But underneath it, is the original 'wound', starting to re-emerge.

 

The same thing is happening to me, only now, for me anyway, it feels so much worse.

 

The other day, after reading your thread, I went off in search of a particular book I thought may be more helpful than the power of now.  One which gets to the real cause of the problem.  I knew it was called 'adult children of something', not alcoholics though.  I ended up browsing books on amazon and reading previews for a long time.  I was looking for something which not only defined the problem, but could actually provide some practical advice about what to do about it.

 

What surprised me the most is that after reading all of the preview and some of the reviews, I bought a used copy of The Narcissistic Family: Diagnosis and Treatment   for myself.  It was the 'treatment' part of the title which gave me hope.

 

I decided not to post on your thread.  But now you've added more.

 

"A new study by Florida State University researchers has found that people who were verbally abused as children grow up to be self-critical adults prone to depression and anxiety.".....But the cure for what to do now that the problem has been found? Nothing in that article.

 

That is what I am so disgusted and angry about. Constant articles defining the problem, and vague ideas for treatment. Or try to find a therapist to help. ...

What's the cure for this?

 

"Childhood abuse of any type has the potential to influence self-critical tendencies," ...

Tell me, what is the cure? God? How do I convince myself God loves me if I cannot convince myself that my parents even loved me while they were constantly verbally abusing me because of their own upbringing?

 

Beginning to look like the only cure is brain numbing drugs. How much longer can I continue to wait for some mysterious thing in my brain to heal so I can feel good again? And I won't be feeling good unless I am doing something. Like going to church, feeding the homeless, making bracelets. What the hell for?

 

What is the cure?  If there is a cure, it has to be something along the lines of learning how to give ourselves the love our parents weren't capable of giving us.

 

Trying to do things to create value out of ourselves for the outside world, is just more of the same old pattern we were programmed with.  Its never going to be enough if we are not enough for ourselves.

 

I think the jewelry making and groups and volunteer jobs probably work well as distractions from withdrawal symptoms, if that's all people have going on.  But for some of us, there are underlying issues which will still be there when the drugs wear off, and after years of having the edge of these issues numbed out by drugs, when they return, with no buffer, it can feel overwhelming.

 

As we know, these drugs don't cure anything.  Usually what we are 'trying' to cure with them aren't illnesses anyway, they are understandable human emotional responses to difficult life circumstances, past and present.  Genetically, people have different tolerance levels for being able to handle stress, but if the bad stuff never happened, we would all be fine.

 

I admire you so much, for the fact that you keep posting, you keep putting it out here, the good and the bad, the beauty and the ugliness.  I'm not going to deny it, I'm helped much more from reading your honest posts than any help I can give you.

 

I think I'm posting now because I want to encourage you to keep searching for help in dealing with your original issues.  I'm sorry your therapy session didn't eventuate, it sounds like it wasn't the right person for you anyway and may have led to more frustration in the long run.

[ikam]

I've been sitting here for almost 2 hours, trying to decide if I should post something or not.  I so much don't want to make things any worse for you than they already are.  But from out here I can see a pattern, maybe at times you see it too.

 

Yesterday, or maybe it was the day before I read the latest posts on your thread and had the same thoughts.  Perhaps you do still have some withdrawal stuff going on, I'm almost certain you do.  But underneath it, is the original 'wound', starting to re-emerge.

 

The same thing is happening to me, only now, for me anyway, it feels so much worse.

 

The other day, after reading your thread, I went off in search of a particular book I thought may be more helpful than the power of now.  One which gets to the real cause of the problem.  I knew it was called 'adult children of something', not alcoholics though.  I ended up browsing books on amazon and reading previews for a long time.  I was looking for something which not only defined the problem, but could actually provide some practical advice about what to do about it.

 

What surprised me the most is that after reading all of the preview and some of the reviews, I bought a used copy of The Narcissistic Family: Diagnosis and Treatment   for myself.  It was the 'treatment' part of the title which gave me hope.

 

I decided not to post on your thread.  But now you've added more.

 

 

"A new study by Florida State University researchers has found that people who were verbally abused as children grow up to be self-critical adults prone to depression and anxiety.".....But the cure for what to do now that the problem has been found? Nothing in that article.

 

That is what I am so disgusted and angry about. Constant articles defining the problem, and vague ideas for treatment. Or try to find a therapist to help. ...

What's the cure for this?

 

"Childhood abuse of any type has the potential to influence self-critical tendencies," ...

Tell me, what is the cure? God? How do I convince myself God loves me if I cannot convince myself that my parents even loved me while they were constantly verbally abusing me because of their own upbringing?

 

Beginning to look like the only cure is brain numbing drugs. How much longer can I continue to wait for some mysterious thing in my brain to heal so I can feel good again? And I won't be feeling good unless I am doing something. Like going to church, feeding the homeless, making bracelets. What the hell for?

 

 

I think I'm posting now because I want to encourage you to keep searching for help in dealing with your original issues.  I'm sorry your therapy session didn't eventuate, it sounds like it wasn't the right person for you anyway and may have led to more frustration in the long run.

I agree, I would also like to encourage you to keep searching for help...

[Addax]

Oh Addax, I am so sorry about the way I responded to you, I could just kick myself!

 

Addax, I do so appreciate you trying to help and I am so sorry I said what I did.

 

I'll try to edit my posts a bit better so they aren't so abrasive.

Please don't worry about how you responded. You don't feel well and I get that and understood that when reading your post. I didn't feel like kicking you, so you shouldn't either. You are honest and candid and I appreciate your real-ness. The last thing you want to do is tell me I'm choch full of great ideas when I'm not! You'd end up bombarded with "great ideas." :-). Make me a promise? Never edit your posts when your responding to me. I value the honesty in them... And I have very thick skin!

 

Please don't give up on finding a therapist. I think with the right therapist you would benefit so much. Perhaps look for someone who works with adult survivors of abuse. I think what Petunia said is right, withdrawal or not, the emotional blunting that drugs and alcohol once provided is wearing off and your left with the rawness of emotions you haven't had to face so head on. Not on,y that, but your left experiencing them, raw and unresolved while living with one of the perpetrators, who continues to hurt you. I hope that doesn't sound too harsh in regards to your mother... I just mean that you are in an INCREDIBLY difficult situation even for someone not in withdrawal.

 

Abuse as a child in and of itself is horrendously harmful to the victim. It's not just the emotional (and physical) pain, but the betrayal. When abuse is perpetrated by a parent or caretaker it is essentially, the ultimate betrayal. And the thing about emotional abuse (and neglect) is that there are no marks or physical indicators and it goes unrecognized, or in the case of such things as child protective services, almost impossible to prove. That childhood chant, "sticks and stones may break my bones..." Is Just SO WRONG.

 

Please continue to look for a therapist. Ask them a head of time if they work with survivors of abuse, work with attachment issues, and things that are important to you. Ask them before making your appointment. I went through a number of phone calls and visits during my "crash" last fall before I found a Pdoc and therapist I felt I could work with, with a couple of not great experiences along the way. I'm just saying it can take time. And I know I've mentioned it before, but if you're really in the sticks, tele-mental health might be available.

 

Also, if you find yourself very bored and don't mind completing surveys and questionnaires to kill time, Amazon.com has something called Mechanical Turk. It's basically a wharehouse where researchers and consumer research companies send questionnaires and surveys they need completed. Some pay a few cents for each survey, some pay more. It's probably dependent on the topic and length.

 

Here's the link in case you're interested: https://www.mturk.com/mturk/welcome

 

I hope today is better for you.

[btdt]

I am of certain mind set tho I have only been doing this last wd thing for 7 years before that I quit ads... I went to therapy I read entire rows of self help books on many different issues just in case the gem I was seeking was hidden in an off beat volume for a time I thought maybe I had this or that abuse ...cause of the things that went thru my head after I read certain books. I did therapy individual and group many times... and some of it was helpful... some of it was a learning experience all of it kept me going hoping one of these things would be my issue. 

Of course there were always issues if you looked hard enough but how did previous generation manage those issues without drugs without therapy and manage to have productive happy more or less lives. That question makes me wonder as I know there were some things in my personal past but those before me had way more to over come than I ever dreamed of and some how they just went on. 

After all this time and effort I think those folks got on better because they had family and a close knit community something I left at 17 and have not had since.  I am not discounting efforts in reading books with answers or therapy group or individual... do what you think may help.  I just think community and family is what helped those of old... that and the fact that they did not have to overcome drugs that did damage than good. 

I really think a good part of this is still wd. just my take on it. 

 

Again I am not saying don't reach out do reach to wherever and whatever you think may help you... in wd I reached did some therapy while I thought it helpful it was not a magic cure and it did not stop the wd induced dp or other wd issues. 

 

All the things that got me where I am today it try to honor as it kept me alive... and I still think life is where it is at. I am not surprised by anything you have to say or your take on your life.  There was a time in wd that I thought of my life completely differently all worse all hopeless that includes my childhood that now does not look anything like it did then. I think our brain chemistry plays a bigger part in all this than we can even imagine... I really do.  I look back at Iggy and I could have written much of it... there was a long time I was just in the pits stuck. I tried everything as I wanted out. Was there a magic answer no there wasn't if there were I would be posting it all over this site the power of now is one things that helped but it was not the only things just a very important thing. 

 

I know my words may not be welcome I just hope you consider it as possible that this is more drug induced than "other" related in this stage all problems look much worse. 

 

I wish you peace CW 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

The therapist's secretary called this morning, in response to all the messages I left last Friday. Informed me that my appointment was for Thursday (funny how that doesn't sound a thing like Friday) and that they have not been open on Fridays for 15 years so there. As I was listening to her rattle on I just hung up and believe it or not she called back. I picked up and told her she unmistakeably said Friday, I did not care what she had to say about that and not to call me anymore. Could it be that the universe doesn't think I need therapy?

 

No help for that now is there. Of course she said Friday and I both heard it wrong and put it in my appointment book wrong. My fault all the way around and no chance she said the wrong thing now is there, after all she has not worked on a Friday for 15 years so why say Friday?

 

My anger, of course, as no outlet but to turn it on myself. This hole keeps getting deeper and deeper.

 

Stop reading here, the rest of what I have to say is awful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How long before I completely lose my mind and commit a horrible act to end all of this? How many more days can I wake up, unrefreshed, to begin another day of aimlessly sitting at the computer, mind constantly churning, trying to find a way out?

 

 

 

 

 

Yesterday, I went to see my friend, the one who was the caretaker for the old man who died and who I was trying to help out by keeping the old dog no one really wants. I sure did not want the dog but I figured I could do it because of course, I am not doing anything constructive now anyway. My trip was to take the dog back to her, I could not keep it. My mother finally decided to tell me, after the dog being here a month, that every single time I left the house the dog would bark and howl until I came back. The dog would not stop barking or whining when I came back either and I would get so rageful over this. So I was both mad at myself and my mother and that was probably the reason I was having attacks of rage at mom because of the dog. Dog was also waking me up at night chewing and licking herself and I would be angry in my sleep too.

 

My friend told me that the dog has been doing this for a long time, the barking and whining when someone would leave the house. She never said anything because I never said anything and she totally agreed it was not a good situation. So she has contacted a rescue site to get rid of her. Poor dog, not her fault both of her masters died but I am in no shape to be a rescue person right now.

 

While I was with my friend, her granddaughter was sitting on my chair and being all bubbly and talkative like 3 year olds are. Oh it was delightful feeling her sit beside me, my body felt all sorts of pleasurable sensations from feeling her touch me. I sure am feeling starved for touching. Not a need easy to meet. In fact, not a need I can meet for myself at all. In order to get someone to touch me I have to be a person that others want to be around and I am not that person and I have no idea how to become one. The internet is no help on any of these problems either. I cannot find any instructions on how to love myself no matter where I look. I can sit here all day and say the words and they mean nothing. I only can have tolerance for myself if someone else can tolerate me.

 

I have to dump one more thing before I go back to sitting here doing nothing.   Was thinking about how my dad treated me most of my childhood. Like I was a playmate for him, someone that he could have around to to things with. I remember one time I wanted to play with my girlfriend nut he wanted someone to go target shooting with (my dad wanted a boy and I was oh so happy to oblige). He said something to me about me not wanting to be with him, made me feel bad for wanting to do my own thing so of course I went with him. Years later when it came to going to school: I was enrolled in a nursing school where I would be there with my best girlfriend. He said no, that I had to go to college because that what would make him feel fulfilled. So since he was the one paying, that is where I went. I had no friends there, hated college. All those wasted years, never knowing how to be around people. No wonder I don't know what to do now. I need someone to tell me what to do. Love myself you say? Well I'll be happy to do that if you just tell me how because I cannot think for myself. Someone has to do that for me.

 

It is terrible what parents do. But it is getting me nowhere blaming them because right now it is me with the problem. Dad is dead and mom will be soon. No more suffering for her soon. As for me, I'll have to figure it out for myself. I don't have a clue what to do right now except to dump these ugly feelings somewhere. I have no one to talk to.

[Rhiannon]

CW, like Petunia, I encourage you to keep working to find a therapist who you can work with on these childhood issues.

 

I was abused severely as a kid (by a sadistic pedophile ring, plus ritual abuse, plus emotional abuse at home) and you CAN recover from that stuff, but it takes work and good therapy and lots of time. I've been in and out of various therapies since I was 16. It can be hard, but you need to find someone who specializes in trauma, childhood abuse issues, and the wounds that come from being parented by narcissists and/or wounded parents. I don't think you need solution based therapy or even CBT, probably, preferably something more body-oriented (I think they call them somatic therapies) that will help you access old wounds. Just keep looking, they're out there. Tell them what you're looking for and if they don't provide it, ask them if they know somebody who does.

 

Also, are you getting any exercise? You talk about getting out of the house but I don't hear you talking about going for walks. If you live out in the country, there can be nice places to walk in nature, with trees around etc. You don't have to want to or to feel like doing it, but just do it anyway, every day. In all the studies that have been done, no drugs have ever worked as well as daily exercise. And get as much sunlight as you can, too.

 

I'm sorry for your misery. I know misery well, and I hate it too. These are my suggestions. If you don't want suggestions, just ignore them.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I want to answer to Petu's post from above.

 

 

I've been sitting here for almost 2 hours, trying to decide if I should post something or not.  I so much don't want to make things any worse for you than they already are.  But from out here I can see a pattern, maybe at times you see it too.

 

Yesterday, or maybe it was the day before I read the latest posts on your thread and had the same thoughts.  Perhaps you do still have some withdrawal stuff going on, I'm almost certain you do.  But underneath it, is the original 'wound', starting to re-emerge.

 

The same thing is happening to me, only now, for me anyway, it feels so much worse.

 

The other day, after reading your thread, I went off in search of a particular book I thought may be more helpful than the power of now.  One which gets to the real cause of the problem.  I knew it was called 'adult children of something', not alcoholics though.  I ended up browsing books on amazon and reading previews for a long time.  I was looking for something which not only defined the problem, but could actually provide some practical advice about what to do about it.

 

What surprised me the most is that after reading all of the preview and some of the reviews, I bought a used copy of The Narcissistic Family: Diagnosis and Treatment   for myself.  It was the 'treatment' part of the title which gave me hope.

 

 

You can never make anything worse for me if you post, there is nothing that will make any of this stuff any harder to bear than it already is.

 

What pattern do you see? I can't see one, all I can see is a whiny sniveling brat who can't get her own way (get well) and is constantly crying and moaning about it. She got better from the acute part of wd (again) and wants things to be all better and they aren't. She doesn't have worthwhile work to do, people aren't calling her on the phone to come do fun stuff anymore and she has lost all but 2 of her clients and feels too worthless to advertise for any more. Now she complains about it, spends all her time sitting in the chair worrying about it and occasionally comes here and posts a 'poor me' rant. This is what I see.

 

 

But underneath it, is the original 'wound', starting to re-emerge.

 

 

 

Yep, what do I do about it? Therapy doesn't seem to be the answer, I can't seem to get started. And how much of it do I have to purchase before I feel well? I wish I could be like you, Petu. Your's is a noble struggle, I am just down in the mud, scrapping with the hogs. Full of self pity. I am so angry I can barely trust myself to leave the house sometimes.

 

I got a book too, a book for therapists on how to heal attachment problems. There was no therapy or treatment in it, just a story about how someone else was healed. It did not heal me by reading it.

 

Lots of people seem to think God and prayer heals them, it is not something I understand or feel. All I feel is self hate. What does it feel like to love oneself? everywhere that is touted as the answer. Is the fact that I have not killed myself love enough I wonder?

 

Hi Rhi, I see you have added a reply as I was writing. Thank you for the suggestions and you are right, I get out of the house but am not doing any exercise. Thanks fro reminding me. I'll keep trying to find a therapist but I am just not hopeful at all. This is not a great area for therapy people.

 

Please don't stop offering suggestions, anyone. And please, just ignore my posts if you have to. I have no one to talk to and I have to get this pain out somewhere, I don't know what else to do.