Sunflower414: medicated at age 7, now 27

[Sunflower414]

@getofflex

 

How do you feel after you take your meds, as opposed to before you take your meds? 

it seems to be no different. Usually I feel slightly better at night time 

 

 

About how many hours in the 24 hour day are you sleeping?  
I usually sleep about 12 hours unfortunately. Sometimes more, sometimes less. But I’d say 12 on average but every few weeks I’ll sleep for two or three days 

 

Are you taking precisely 14.2 mg Paxil at 2 pm each day?  
yes 

 

Was everyday awful prior to the reduction to 14.2?  

For the most part. I keep a journal and it seems like before the reduction I had 4 good days in the past three months. Since the reduction I haven’t had any. However by “good” I mean not crying, not over sleeping and able to function 

 

 

 

 

thank you for reminding me this is still doable. I did not updose because I am very nervous. I also was doing extremely poor on 20mg so updosing doesn’t sound super appealing to me. How do you microdose? I have tried as low as 2.5% taper and still seems to not be good. I suppose because I wasn’t doing good on the medication either I feel trapped because meds don’t help and I can’t get off them either. I fear i “need” meds but none work now. My doctor suggest trintellix but I think I am way too nervous.

[getofflex]

14 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

Was everyday awful prior to the reduction to 14.2?  

For the most part. I keep a journal and it seems like before the reduction I had 4 good days in the past three months. Since the reduction I haven’t had any. However by “good” I mean not crying, not over sleeping and able to function 

 

14 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

How do you feel after you take your meds, as opposed to before you take your meds? 

it seems to be no different. Usually I feel slightly better at night time 

 

This tells me that you are dealing with withdrawal, and not an adverse reaction to the drug.  Unfortunately Paxil is a notoriously hard drug to get off of.  I would suggest that you either updose a tiny bit to help with withdrawal, like up to 14.6 and then hold there for a very long time, or just tough it out and hold on this dose for a very long time, as in 6 to 9 months, maybe even a year.  It would give your nervous system a big break, and really allow it to stabilize and find homeostasis.  Then, I would attempt a very slow and cautious micro taper after that.  You may find that things get a lot easier if you do this.  There is no deadline of when you have to be off of this drug.  I've been weaning off of Lexapro for over 4 years now.  

 

I'm very sorry you are dealing with this, and I really hope things smooth out for you.  I believe they will if you take things super slowly.  

Edited December 13, 2021 by getofflex

[getofflex]

14 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

I can’t get off them either. I fear i “need” meds but none work now. My doctor suggest trintellix but I think I am way too nervous.

I can understand why you feel trapped.  Here is the secret to getting off of these evil drugs - extreme patience and time.  Some of us must taper at a glacially, ridiculously slow pace to get off of them.  It takes years, but it is doable.  Please don't tell yourself that you can't get off of them, because you can.  It takes a great deal of patience, and perseverance.  Almost all doctors will push the drugs - that is what they have been trained to do, unfortunately.  

[Greatful]

@Sunflower414

Hi How are you doing?  I hope things have smoothed out a little for you❤️

[Sunflower414]

On 12/24/2021 at 10:43 AM, Greatful said:

@Sunflower414

Hi How are you doing?  I hope things have smoothed out a little for you❤️

Hi @Greatfulive been sick with covid unfortunately. It’s been hard but withdrawal wise I had an okay week and today was tough again. 
 

how are you doing? 

[getofflex]

Sunflower I’m very sorry that you have Covid. However it’s good news that your withdrawal symptoms have abated. I’ll be praying for you.

[Sunflower414]

4 hours ago, getofflex said:

Sunflower I’m very sorry that you have Covid. However it’s good news that your withdrawal symptoms have abated. I’ll be praying for you.

Thank you @getofflex Today they seem to be back a bit. 

how are you doing?

[getofflex]

I’ve been very slowly but surely getting better and better from my own Lexapro withdrawal. I am deeply thankful for this. My sleep is improving in both quality and quantity. I believe the same will happen for you.

[Sunflower414]

Thank you @getofflex for your reassurance. I’m glad you’re improving! 
 

im overall just terrified of the suicidal thoughts, and the fear that I am permanently damaged / “need” medications. Do you happen to have any resources for either of these struggles?

[getofflex]

Yes,  try not to take the suicidal thoughts too seriously.  When our brain is in WD, it can create negative and disturbing thoughts.  Suicidal ideation is not uncommon in WD.  Here are some things to help

 

Overcoming Suicidal Thoughts

 

Read the success stories.  This shows you people do heal and recover.  Go to the home page, and halfway down "Success Stories" 

 

APPLE Technique

 

I just came across a very nice technique that really helps me.  It's called APPLE. I have printed it and have it where I can see it every day and be reminded of it so I internalize this technique. 

 

A - Acknowledge Notice and acknowledge the thought or uncertainty as it comes to mind. 

 

P - Pause Don't react as you normally do.  Don't react at all.  Just pause and breathe.   

 

P - Pull Back Tell yourself this is just the thought or worry talking, and this apparent need for worry or analysis or certainty is not helpful and not necessary.  It is only a thought or feeling.  Don't believe everything you think.  Thoughts are not statements or facts.   

 

L - Let Go Let go of the thought or feeling.  It will pass.  You don't have to respond to it.  You might imagine the thought floating away in a bubble or cloud.   

 

E - Explore Explore the present moment, because right now, in this moment, you are OK.  Notice your breathing and the sensations of your breathing.  Notice the ground beneath you.  Look around and notice what you see, what you hear, what you can touch, what you can smell.  Right now.  Then shift your focus of attention to something else - on what you need to do, on what you were doing before you noticed the thought or worry, or do something else - mindfully - with your full attention.  

[Greatful]

@Sunflower414

I have the same thoughts about needing these drugs.  Somehow we have to let the thoughts go and concentrate on the why "can't I function on when I am on off these drugs"......We have the chance to find out if we can hold on, find the encouragement, and help from where ever we can to go the whole distance.

We are  fortune telling when we try to view or hypostasize the future.  When we do it in a negative way we are only depressing ourselves or taking away the power to succeed.  Who knows we may be 10 times more healthy, emotionally and physically.

I was reading through some of the side affects from Lex and Prozac because some chronic back pain has mysteriously disappeared which I had while on the Prozac and also my carpal tunnel in my arm/hands has disappeared. These can be side affects from the drugs.  I use to have a large gag reflex and that is pretty much gone,  I got it from the ssri or Lamictal.  I would have never put the two together before SA.

Look at the spelled out side affects on Drug.com where they brake do all the different functions in your body, macular, respiratory, nervous system, cardo, hemoglobin system all of them... Maybe you will have some health improvements as you go down on the drug that you never put together with drug  use.  

 

I see you stopped the CBD.  I bought some and then found out from Lex1989 that it can cause a problem with the Lexapro. the need the same liver enzyme to metabolize.  So it looks like I will be holding off with it for now. 

 

I really know how hard this is Sunflower,  remember we have a pack to do this together and when we get on the other side we be so much better❤️

[Sunflower414]

Thank you @getofflex 

 

I have been diagnosed with PMDD and doctors are suggesting I take Zoloft (or another SSRI…. NOT DOING THAT) because these thoughts are severe for about one week out of the month before I start my cycle. Do you have any info on PMDD? 
 

I’m also very panicked thinking I will not be able to get off of Paxil if 2% drops are this unbearable. I have read about switching to Prozac. I have been on Prozac in the past, but the last time I switched to Prozac (about three years ago) it didn’t go very well. 

[Sunflower414]

Thank you for your comment @Greatful

 

My main worries come from the fact that I’m still on 14mg and can’t seem to continue a taper without it being horrid. 

[getofflex]

On 12/30/2021 at 2:48 PM, Sunflower414 said:

I have been diagnosed with PMDD and doctors are suggesting I take Zoloft (or another SSRI…. NOT DOING THAT) because these thoughts are severe for about one week out of the month before I start my cycle. Do you have any info on PMDD? 

I'm glad you are not doing that!  Here are some links that may help: 

 

PMDD

 

PMS PMDD

 

This link tells you how to search the site for yourself:  

 

How to Do a Site Search

 

On 12/30/2021 at 2:48 PM, Sunflower414 said:

I’m also very panicked thinking I will not be able to get off of Paxil if 2% drops are this unbearable. I have read about switching to Prozac. I have been on Prozac in the past, but the last time I switched to Prozac (about three years ago) it didn’t go very well.

If I were you, I would do a very long hold, as in 8 months to a year, and really allow your nervous system to stabilize and heal.  It may just be that your CNS really needs stability and sameness right now.  You've had many drugs and drug changes in the past (since 2017).  You give list of drugs in your drug sig "2017- Back to 20mg Paxil & 1mg Xanax ER 2018 - 20mg Paxil, tapered myself off Xanax ER 2019 - switched to 75mg Effexor 2020 - tried Prozac, Celexa, Pristiq, VIibryd, Lexapro "  

 

 I'm talking about the Prozac, Celexa Pristiq, Vibryd, Lexapro - were all these in 2020, or 2017? 

[Sunflower414]

Thank you @getofflex those were all in 2020 unfortunately. All taken for short amounts of time because doctors were trying to find something to help. February 2021 I dropped from 20-15 and have since only went down to 14mg. Shouldn’t I be improving by now?

[getofflex]

18 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

those were all in 2020 unfortunately.

 

18 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

Shouldn’t I be improving by now?

These doctors should be in jail for how they mess people up.  Going off and on all those drugs in 2020 is probably why your system is sensitized and destabilized now.  As I've said several times, your system very much needs stability for a very long time.  No more drug changes - it will help your nervous system to stabilize and settle down.  Apparently your system is not ready for a taper yet.   Please carefully read these links and listen to these videos: 

 

How Psychiatric Drugs Remodel Your Brain

 

Video on Recovery from Psych Drugs

 

What is Happening in Your Brain

Edited January 2, 2022 by getofflex

[Sunflower414]

Thank you for your response @getofflex

i read there that if you were out on before your brain matured that it’s not good. I feel so defeated and hopeless. These past five days have been so horrific. Would you recommend updosing or staying on the dos

[getofflex]

15 minutes ago, Sunflower414 said:

Would you recommend updosing or staying on the dos

Before these past 5 days, how were you feeling?  

 

Since you did the reduction from 14.2 to 14.0 on Nov 14,  how have you felt?  Did you have symptoms after the reduction, and then did the symptoms start to improve before this past 5 horrific days?  Or have you had symptoms all along?  

 

17 minutes ago, Sunflower414 said:

These past five days have been so horrific.

Can you please be more specific?  What do you mean by horrific?  What specific symptoms have you been having?  How is your sleep and eating?  

 

Are you still keeping a daily journal as previously requested?  Please keep a daily journal, and see if you can find some patterns.  Other things can trigger a wave, like changing weather, eating certain foods (sugar, MSG, etc). 

[getofflex]

I just looked at some of your prior recent posts and see that you had COVID.  That could certainly be a destabilizing factor. 

[Sunflower414]

@getofflex yes I just had covid. 

 

I accidentally lowered to 14mg. It was an accident. I was trying to hold and it was an error on my part with my scale. I was doing awful and had about 4 okay days, then it all started again. 

 

here are my symptoms these past five days: 

- extreme terror for no reason 

- crying spells

- intrusive looping thoughts 

- body jerking (a lot in the legs) 

- extreme fatigue and hopelessness

- sensitive to sound. everything feels like it’s extremely loud 

- overwhelmed by small tasks 

 

I hope this clears things up. I suppose I am also making it worse by thinking I am trapped on this medication and will suffer forever. I am angry I was put on the worst medication at a young age and I just feel like my life has been ruined.

[getofflex]

You didn't answer my other questions.  

 

4 hours ago, getofflex said:

Before these past 5 days, how were you feeling?  

 

 

 

4 hours ago, getofflex said:

Since you did the reduction from 14.2 to 14.0 on Nov 14,  how have you felt?

 

 

4 hours ago, getofflex said:

Did you have symptoms after the reduction, and then did the symptoms start to improve before this past 5 horrific days?  Or have you had symptoms all along?  

 

 

Please answer the above questions - thank you.  

[Sunflower414]

@getofflex

4 hours ago, getofflex said: Before these past 5 days, how were you feeling?

 

I had an okay 3 days! I was able to go my my family Christmas party which I haven’t done in about a year. Before those three days I wasn’t doing well, but it wasn’t this bad.

 

4 hours ago, getofflex said: Since you did the reduction from 14.2 to 14.0 on Nov 14,  how have you felt?

The rest of November wasn’t good. Just slept and tried to make it through. December the same until December 21 I finally felt a window and it lasted until December 25th. Since December 26th, it’s been the worst it has been in months. 

 

4 hours ago, getofflex said: Did you have symptoms after the reduction, and then did the symptoms start to improve before this past 5 horrific days?  Or have you had symptoms all along?

After reducing I didn’t have any major new symptoms except a headache, but my normal anxiety was there. I wasn’t good but I wasn’t awful. then had a window dec 21-dec 25 and since then it feels like I’m back to being paralyzed with fear and intrusive thoughts body jerking etc. so overall I’ve had symptoms the whole time but they are drastically worsened these past five days

[getofflex]

Go ahead and do an updose to 14.1 mg.  Then, hold here for a very long time, as I mentioned before - 8 to 12 months.  Allow your nervous system to stabilize. 

 

I see you only waited 2.5 weeks between your previous 2 reductions.  (Oct 27 to Nov 14). It appears you didn't wait long enough for your system to stabilize.  If we reduce before we have stabilized, we are likely to run into trouble, and the nervous system will just become more destabilized.  

 

Have you tried the magnesium or omega-3 supplements?  These can be helpful.  

It is suggested to add one at a time, and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

 

Omega 3 Fish Oil

 

 

14 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

I suppose I am also making it worse by thinking I am trapped on this medication and will suffer forever.

But it looks like there have been improvements.  At least you are not bedridden anymore like you were before.  And, you were able to have a 3 day window!  That is a sign of healing.  Have you ever read any of the success stories on the forum?  Go to the home page, about halfway down for the success story forum.  

 

[Sunflower414]

Thank you @getofflex for your support. 
 

I have tried magnesium and it made me itchy although I know there are many kinds. I’ve been taking omega 3 but haven’t noticed anything. 
 

thanks for everything 🤍

[getofflex]

No problem.  Updosing probably won't take your symptoms away, but hopefully it will decrease them and make them more tolerable.  Give it time - at least a week for it to get into your system.  

[Sunflower414]

I am doing extremely poor. @Altostratai saw that you posted that you would possibly do this bridging method if you were on Paxil:

 

Prey 2012 method for Prozac switch
Another knowledgeable doctor (whom I trust) explained his technique to me (this is the technique I personally would prefer if I had to do it, it seems much gentler)

• For a "normal" dose of Effexor (150mg per day or more) or Paxil (20mg) or Cymbalta (20mg), he would switch to 10mg Prozac with a week of overlap. In other words, take both medications for a week and then drop the Effexor. Lower doses of Effexor or other antidepressant require lower doses of Prozac as a "bridge."
• The lower dose of Prozac reduces the risk of excessive serotonergic stimulation (serotonin toxicity) from the combination of the two antidepressants during the overlap period.
• Do not stay on the combination of the first antidepressant and Prozac for more than 2 weeks, or you run the risk of your nervous system accommodating to the combination and having difficulty tapering off both antidepressants.
• Later, taper off Prozac. He acknowledged Prozac can have its withdrawal problems, but given Prozac's long half-life, gradual tapering should be easier than tapering off Effexor.

 

do you recommend I try this? It’s becoming unbearable but I don’t want to sensitize my system more. I’m on 14mg Paxil so how would I do this correctly?

[Greatful]

@Sunflower414

I am so sorry that you are suffering so much.  I know how hard this is. 

what all is going on?   

I wish I could do more for you, but know that I am pulling for you.❤️

[Altostrata]

@Sunflower414 what was your Paxil reduction schedule since October 27?

[Sunflower414]

@Altostrata

 

Oct. 2021 - Began 2.5% taper every 2-3 weeks 

Oct. 27, 2021 - 2.5% down to 14.2 mg 

Nov. 14, 2021 - 14mg

 

the reduction to 14mg was actually an error because my mom was helping me weigh my pills. But once I noticed she had given me 14mg for two weeks I just kept it there 

[Sunflower414]

2 hours ago, Greatful said:

@Sunflower414

I am so sorry that you are suffering so much.  I know how hard this is. 

what all is going on?   

I wish I could do more for you, but know that I am pulling for you.❤️

Thank you…

MANY very strange new symptoms on top of the old ones. I am now having loud ringing in my ears, and it feels like my head is on fire. I can barely open my eyes. The intrusive thoughts are even louder. The body jerks are bad and extreme looping thoughts. Nightmares. I pray for a window soon.

 

thank you for being so sweet. How are you doing?

[Altostrata]

I'm sorry you're having such a bad time with Paxil. Yes, perhaps cross-tapering to Prozac will help. Do you have a good relationship with your doctor?

[Sunflower414]

@Altostrata yes I do. 
 

I did try to “cross taper” in may but I had no idea what I was doing. I was on 15mg Paxil and added 2.5mg of Prozac for a week then just stopped it because I was too scared. 
 

Would you suggest trying that again or just holding even longer? If I did cross taper, can you I explain how I would do it? I’m on 14mg Paxil 

 

my biggest fear is getting akathisia — do you think this would happen? 
 

thanks for ALL you help 🤍

[Sunflower414]

23 hours ago, Sunflower414 said:

@Altostrata yes I do. 
 

I did try to “cross taper” in may but I had no idea what I was doing. I was on 15mg Paxil and added 2.5mg of Prozac for a week then just stopped it because I was too scared. 
 

Would you suggest trying that again or just holding even longer? If I did cross taper, can you I explain how I would do it? I’m on 14mg Paxil 

 

my biggest fear is getting akathisia — do you think this would happen? 
 

thanks for ALL you help 🤍

 

[Sunflower414]

@Altostrata @getofflex

 

I speak with my doc soon. Should I mention this bridge? 

 

I did try to “cross taper” in may but I had no idea what I was doing. I was on 15mg Paxil and added 2.5mg of Prozac for a week then just stopped it because I was too scared. 
 

Would you suggest trying that again or just holding even longer? If I did cross taper, can you I explain how I would do it? I’m on 14mg Paxil 

 

my biggest fear is getting akathisia — do you think this would happen? 
 

thanks for ALL you help 🤍

[Altostrata]

Yes, you might add 2.5mg fluoxetine, see what happens. It is not likely you will get akathisia. Please let us know how you're doing.

[Sunflower414]

Thank you @Altostrata after I add 2.5mg of Prozac, what do I do from there?  I read you should switch over 2 weeks. If I’m on 14mg of Paxil how would I do the switch?