j1290: gets off the Wellbutrin and on with life!

[littlebird]

1 minute ago, j1290 said:

Found a really great donut shop that keeps my hours.  Nutella filled donuts, freaking awesome.   I think tapering and food intake are connected in some way, if even just as a cope.  Knocking back some nutella and pretzel sticks right now.  Wish I'd never found this stuff 😂

 

If I ever find myself in San Diego, I'm gonna need the name of this dreamland. Donuts are fluffy little blessings! 

 

2 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Need to swap the chocolate out for lettuce or whatever an appropriate healthy alternative is 😂

 

My heart sank at the thought!! If only lettuce was as satisfying as a delicious piece of chocolate... I've been thinking the same thing. What if I got really into carrot sticks? Those are kinda sweet... that is not a one for one exchange tho.

 

Just now, Thorin said:

If the worse thing I’m doing for a while is eating too much chocolate I’ll live with it.

 

Okay, I needed to hear this. It really isn't so bad in the scheme of things. Anorexia has been having a field day with beating me up over eating sweets, and really could be so much worse than a high chocolate intake.

 

Plus, my inner child has also been having a field day with chocolate; I think I've also been treating them for doing hard therapy work. Perhaps I'll just work on a little more moderation so I don't over-sugar my system, and let myself have some treats still. 

 

1 minute ago, Thorin said:

Damn now I want Nutella and/or donuts but I CANNOT be bothered leaving the house. What a conundrum. Wonder if my partner will grab some when she finishes work. Dammit John! 😂

 

Grocery delivery time? Team Treats!!

[Thorin]

5 minutes ago, littlebird said:

My heart sank at the thought!! If only lettuce was as satisfying as a delicious piece of chocolate... I've been thinking the same thing. What if I got really into carrot sticks? Those are kinda sweet... that is not a one for one exchange tho.

I was picturing limp iceberg lettuce when I wrote that too 😔 let me know how the carrot sticks go….

 

5 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Okay, I needed to hear this. It really isn't so bad in the scheme of things. Anorexia has been having a field day with beating me up over eating sweets, and really could be so much worse than a high chocolate intake.

Honestly I don’t worry about it during WD. Can always dust yourself off afterwards and tighten up the healthy eating. Don’t know if that’s in line with the latest health guidelines but it’s working for me right now.

 

8 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Plus, my inner child has also been having a field day with chocolate; I think I've also been treating them for doing hard therapy work. Perhaps I'll just work on a little more moderation so I don't over-sugar my system, and let myself have some treats still. 

Inner children definitely need to get treats of some sort. Just talked about my inner child in therapy yesterday. Treats have to be better than the anger and frustration he’s been getting from me lately. Will be sending some love his way this evening. And some chocolate.

 

9 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Grocery delivery time? Team Treats!!

It’s 7pm here so too late for grocery delivery. I could get something via Uber eats…… hmmmm might have a look.

[littlebird]

8 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I could get something via Uber eats…… hmmmm might have a look.

 

You deserve it!! Used to live close to a place called Insomnia Cookies that delivered hot cookies to your door any time of night. I both miss that and am glad they don't deliver here at the same time.

 

10 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Just talked about my inner child in therapy yesterday. Treats have to be better than the anger and frustration he’s been getting from me lately.

 

Ooh, I feel for you and inner Thorin! We learned to be mean to ourselves, it's a process to unwind all that knee-jerk thinking. It's also frustrating when we're trying to do adult things and there's a wounded child who wants to be heard who won't listen to scheduling suggestions.

 

Sometimes I'll pull up a picture of me as a little kid, then it's harder to hard on myself. Also brings up a lot around "Poor kid, you were really going through it," but helps with the self-talk. I'd never tell any other kid to pull it together and stop crying, so why am I mean to lil me like that?

 

12 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Will be sending some love his way this evening. And some chocolate.

 

This makes me feel warm and fuzzy! I'm so glad lil Thorin (and teen Thorin and all the other Thorins) get some treats and kindness and love tonight. 

[Thorin]

5 minutes ago, littlebird said:

hot cookies to your door any time of night.

Oh man that sounds so good right now….

 

6 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Ooh, I feel for you and inner Thorin! We learned to be mean to ourselves, it's a process to unwind all that knee-jerk thinking. It's also frustrating when we're trying to do adult things and there's a wounded child who wants to be heard who won't listen to scheduling suggestions.

Everything you said here is true. If I could put the inner child away somewhere for 10 hours a day that would be great 😌 

 

7 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Sometimes I'll pull up a picture of me as a little kid, then it's harder to hard on myself. Also brings up a lot around "Poor kid, you were really going through it," but helps with the self-talk. I'd never tell any other kid to pull it together and stop crying, so why am I mean to lil me like that?

Littlebird that’s a freaking awesome idea! I’m going to put one in the office. He gets nothing but love is the rule.

[littlebird]

8 minutes ago, Thorin said:

If I could put the inner child away somewhere for 10 hours a day that would be great 😌 

 

If only!! Just like a real child, if you try to lock 'em up, they'll just scream louder. If I could find a way to work in lil "inner child breaks" to the day, maybe that would help? I dunno, I have a lot of work to do in this area. At least they're sated with lots of treats!

 

9 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Littlebird that’s a freaking awesome idea! I’m going to put one in the office. He gets nothing but love is the rule.

 

Yes, right where you can see him all the time! If your experience is anything like mine, it's really hard to think the tough stuff when I'm looking at that lil face. I'd never be mean to a kid, so it kicks in that I need to think kind thoughts about my inner kid when I see them. 

[littlebird]

John, all I can think about now is Nutella donuts. Might need to do a little searching for one near me. OOH, or I can buy donuts and Nutella and make a lil sandwich if I can't find them.

 

Glad you found a late-night pick me up like that! 

[j1290]

1 hour ago, littlebird said:

We learned to be mean to ourselves

This goes to the heart of so much of my life.   

45 minutes ago, littlebird said:

John, all I can think about now is Nutella donuts. Might need to do a little searching for one near me. OOH, or I can buy donuts and Nutella and make a lil sandwich if I can't find them.

 

Glad you found a late-night pick me up like that! 

I was out at 0400 this morning and caught them hot out of the oven.   Filled the donuts for me and everything.   YES! a donut/Nutella sandwich would get you most of the way there, minus the glorious convenience of not having to combine them yourself.   Dang they're good.  

 

I'm just certain there's a connection between the sweets and WD.   Certainly better not to eat them but it's not like I'm going to get pulled over for driving while fat !😂 Especially in the US!  😉

[Thorin]

17 minutes ago, j1290 said:

caught them hot out of the oven.   Filled the donuts for me and everything.

Oh man that sounds good!

[j1290]

DAY 17  3/10 headaches, sleep, slightly annoyed

Was a 4/10 last week, so improvement, and I'm getting through it with the Crown of Ice that is all the rage in Paris.   Or in my office.  Alone.  😀.

 

Got a last minute therapy appointment in tonight.  Always glad I went.   There's less of me to go around afterwards but hey, perk of the night shift, I got nobody to answer to so long as my work gets done.   I gotta appreciate the simplicity of my job more.  I'd be way more frustrated if I needed all my focus on work right now.   

Going to do my cut next Wed. Kinda surprised I'm almost there already.   This headache stuff and my sleep schedule have me kinda wiped out.   That said, the head pressure, which is the very worst part of this, has lightened up, so I have less irritability.   Thank goodness.   I've had bumpier days than I'd like this taper, but I haven't had any where I felt a 4/10 and unsuitable to be around people.   It's clear improvement.  Can't wait to be on a lower dose and reminding myself that the pressure and headaches should be more tolerable.   I clearly feel substantially better than I did at 450mg, however this is powerful stuff and I think even at half this strength I'm going to feel it.   Starting to think it won't be till I'm way down to 50mg or so that I'll start to feel approaching good on a day to day basis.   That's cool, I'll be there before you know it.   

[littlebird]

22 minutes ago, j1290 said:

That's cool, I'll be there before you know it.

 

Yeah you will! Time is flying. You're doing it!

 

23 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I'm getting through it with the Crown of Ice that is all the rage in Paris

 

I'm calling it now, you're ahead of the curve. With climate change, Crowns of Ice are going to be huge. You can say, "I had an ice hat before it was cool, pun intended."

[j1290]

17 minutes ago, littlebird said:

I'm calling it now, you're ahead of the curve. With climate change, Crowns of Ice are going to be huge. You can say, "I had an ice hat before it was cool, pun intended."

That's freaking hilarious!!! 😂

[j1290]

DAY 18  3/10 Headaches, pressure, etc.  A little more emotional than usual, maybe a little more vivid imagination last night.   

 

Boring day.  Fine-ish with the headache hat, and without it more weird discomfort.   I know which one I prefer.  All these reductions are adding up and day to day I am feeling better, but after all this time I'm impatient.   Any way I chart this thing I'm still only about half way done at best because it's so slow to move forward at lower doses.   Things will get interesting below 60mg.  

[j1290]

DAY 19  Guessing I'm at approximately WD Normal.   Evidently things are slightly improved over last month, but greatly improved over the month prior to that where I was getting internally irate over small things for days.   So it may be a small improvement over last month but a great improvement overall.  I don't miss that head pressure at all, it's much improved, and should be even better after the next cut.   

 

I think I'm trending to fewer intrusive thoughts and less emotional, less uninhibited speech, irritability, and overall better.     

 

I think I'm close to turning the corner on this.  After the next couple of reductions I'll be at what I'm calling the end game taper from 70mg - 0 and I want to give myself the long hold I've been promising to do once I get to a low enough number to do so comfortably.   I can get by day to day but I need to wear the headache hat and I want to be at the point where I don't require that.   

 

Overall everything is good.  I'm far from where I want to be and this taper is still dictating my life.  However, the internal drama of neuro emotions and stress from side effects and WD are overall much lower.   Looking forward to seeing what things look like day to day after 2 more reductions, and what the WD will be like after each cut going forward.   If things continue as they are, I don't think it'll be that bad.   

[Thorin]

2 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I think I'm trending to fewer intrusive thoughts and less emotional, less uninhibited speech, irritability, and overall better.     

Hi John. That’s great news! 

 

3 minutes ago, j1290 said:

want to give myself the long hold I've been promising to do once I get to a low enough number to do so comfortably

Probably a good rest for you. You’ve been running a long marathon!

 

4 minutes ago, j1290 said:

However, the internal drama of neuro emotions and stress from side effects and WD are overall much lower

Fantastic! I don’t love the neuro emotions.

[littlebird]

37 minutes ago, j1290 said:

less uninhibited speech

 

That part, I'm missing the "think before I speak" of the ADHD-helping qualities of the bup. 

 

32 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I don’t love the neuro emotions.

 

Is there any way to tell when it's a neuro emotion? Is it just increased emotionality due to meds, or are there qualities that differ? 

 

33 minutes ago, Thorin said:

38 minutes ago, j1290 said:

the long hold I've been promising to do once I get to a low enough number to do so comfortably

Probably a good rest for you. You’ve been running a long marathon!

 

Okay, good. You're trail-running down this mountain! You're gonna be off it before you know it, but a hold might be good to let body take a breather from change maybe? You know what's best though! I understand the urge to sprint and get off. ASAP.

[littlebird]

Just now, littlebird said:

That part, I'm missing the "think before I speak" of the ADHD-helping qualities of the bup. 

 

Especially since the posts on here can't be edited the next day when one is in a different state of mind. Boo afterthoughts of things I cannot unsay! 

[Thorin]

33 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Is there any way to tell when it's a neuro emotion? Is it just increased emotionality due to meds, or are there qualities that differ? 

They have a certain feel to them that’s hard to explain. I don’t always recognise them for what they are until afterwards. They’re big, out of context or bigger than they should be for that reaction. Sometimes they’re huge and overwhelming. Sometimes they have an artificial feel which is weird.

 

34 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Especially since the posts on here can't be edited the next day when one is in a different state of mind. Boo afterthoughts of things I cannot unsay! 

I haven’t seen you post anything out of order 🤷‍♂️. Thinks that feeling’s just you.

[littlebird]

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

I need to wear the headache hat and I want to be at the point where I don't require that.   

 

OR you need headache hats to become more fashionable so you can wear it freely. You know those snowboarding beanies that come with foam padding? Maybe something loose like that with ice packs instead. If it helps, nothing wrong with that!

 

7 minutes ago, Thorin said:

They’re big, out of context or bigger than they should be for that reaction. Sometimes they’re huge and overwhelming.

 

These usually ping as "trauma alert" for me, while...

 

7 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Sometimes they have an artificial feel which is weird.

 

These might be more of the neuro emotion thing. Things I don't usually feel, and yeah artificial. Like I was playing with uppers or something in this case. Doesn't feel like "me," and the usual stuff isn't touching it. It's a strange intruder of an emotion in a way.

 

8 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I haven’t seen you post anything out of order 🤷‍♂️. Thinks that feeling’s just you.

 

Will I ever get over the fears of being too known and/or too much? Hopefully! 

[j1290]

1 hour ago, Thorin said:

Fantastic! I don’t love the neuro emotions.

It's a dysfunctional relationship with my neuro emotional self where I constantly have to talk him out of overreacting.   I only notice how much energy it takes because it's noticeable by its absence at the moment.   Headaches are much easier to tolerate haha.  

 

1 hour ago, Thorin said:

You’ve been running a long marathon!

I'll send a postcard from Hawaii!!  Beautiful place. 

 

 

1 hour ago, littlebird said:

That part, I'm missing the "think before I speak" of the ADHD-helping qualities of the bup. 

I'm complicated enough without worrying about speaking things better left unsaid 😂

43 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Sometimes they have an artificial feel which is weird.

You described it all better than I could.  It's like a electric guitar amplifier but for emotions sometimes, maybe with some distortion pedal thrown in.   Hard pass.  

33 minutes ago, littlebird said:

OR you need headache hats to become more fashionable so you can wear it freely. You know those snowboarding beanies that come with foam padding? Maybe something loose like that with ice packs instead. If it helps, nothing wrong with that!

 

Great idea, I gotta look into that!  Fashion just needs to catch up with me 😎

 

43 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I haven’t seen you post anything out of order 🤷‍♂️.

Me neither.   And even if you did, well, look where we are.   I try to keep it between the lines but what can you do?  

[littlebird]

3 minutes ago, j1290 said:

Great idea, I gotta look into that!  Fashion just needs to catch up with me 😎

 

That's the spirit!

 

 

[Thorin]

3 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I'll send a postcard from Hawaii!!  Beautiful place

Yes please. Not long until holiday time for you!

 

4 minutes ago, j1290 said:

You described it all better than I could.  It's like an electric guitar amplifier but for emotions sometimes, maybe with some distortion pedal thrown in.   Hard pass.  

Spot on. Don’t like that distortion pedal.

 

4 minutes ago, j1290 said:

47 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I haven’t seen you post anything out of order 🤷‍♂️.

Me neither.   And even if you did, well, look where we are.   I try to keep it between the lines but what can you do?  

Exactly we’ve all said some pretty raw stuff and been vulnerable on here. Everyone’s been kind enough to be vulnerable in return from what I see…. They all seem like good people.

[littlebird]

1 minute ago, Thorin said:

7 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I'll send a postcard from Hawaii!!  Beautiful place

Yes please. Not long until holiday time for you!

 

Hawaii is super special, Costa Rica is also pretty damn magical. They have a mountain full of hummingbirds! OMG dude, so many different kinds.

 

Also had some transformative times in Mexico; I'll be going back later this year. Gonna surf for the first time in 2023! And happily say "No, gracias" to tequila, that's never been mi amiga. Pero una cerveza en la playa? Tempting thought...

 

3 minutes ago, Thorin said:

9 minutes ago, j1290 said:

You described it all better than I could.  It's like an electric guitar amplifier but for emotions sometimes, maybe with some distortion pedal thrown in.   Hard pass.  

Spot on. Don’t like that distortion pedal.

 

Too much reverb too!

 

3 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Exactly we’ve all said some pretty raw stuff and been vulnerable on here. Everyone’s been kind enough to be vulnerable in return from what I see…. They all seem like good people.

 

Much to my tough exterior's dismay, the more I'm vulnerable with people the better life gets! 🤣

[Fifree]

4 hours ago, j1290 said:

I'm far from where I want to be and this taper is still dictating my life.  However, the internal drama of neuro emotions and stress from side effects and WD are overall much lower. 

You're always so chill on here, I didn't even know you were struggling with neuroemotions J. My sympathies.

 

I'm glad the internal drama is going down with the lower doses. A hold sounds like a good idea. I don't know if I'll ever have the self-discipline unless/until I crash big time. I'm not much of a gambler as a rule, but on this... spin that wheel.

[j1290]

14 hours ago, Fifree said:

You're always so chill on here, I didn't even know you were struggling with neuroemotions J. My sympathies.

hehe thanks, it's no big.   This tapering business sucks up a lot of emotional bandwidth in

different ways.   I don't even notice till it's gone because it's just white noise in the background. 

 

14 hours ago, Fifree said:

I'm glad the internal drama is going down with the lower doses. A hold sounds like a good idea. I don't know if I'll ever have the self-discipline unless/until I crash big time. I'm not much of a gambler as a rule, but on this... spin that wheel.

Spin the wheel is right!  I hear you about the hold.  Dr. Shipko recommended  a 2 month hold every 6 months.   He has a point, but I think that's going to look more like holding for an extra week instead of a month. 

 

DAY 20 3/10 irritability, headache, temple pressure

This $20 Amazon hat has changed my life.   I take it off now and then to see if I'm exaggerating how much it helps, and I'm really not. 

 

Was super irritable this morning, but only someone who knew me could tell, so another victory for mitigating side effects 😆   Sleep played a role too but who knows.  Looking back at my notes from the last reduction, irritability was a big deal, as was headaches, and at least so far today that's much improved.  I think that bodes well for things becoming even more tolerable after the next cut.  Much as I appreciate it, I don't want to wear The Hat everywhere I go for any longer than I have to.   

 

As always, can't wait to do the next cut and get closer to no side effects.  

[littlebird]

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

Dr. Shipko recommended  a 2 month hold every 6 months.   He has a point, but I think that's going to look more like holding for an extra week instead of a month. 

 

I feel this way too, but then someone wise on here said, "A hold is doing something. It's gotta be nice for our systems to get a breather from having changes and just adjust to what's already happened. Although I know you want to be on a beach with no pill bottles in your carry on!!

 

Maybe if the week hold helps with headaches or other symptoms, it's a sign your body needs a beat? I tend to worry about people, so don't mind me fussing.

 

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

This $20 Amazon hat has changed my life.   I take it off now and then to see if I'm exaggerating how much it helps, and I'm really not. 

 

Yay!!! I'm so glad you found your crown of ice and are able to wear it around. Do you tend to run hot in general? I found ice was too much even with the burning scalp, but I tend to run cold and wear beanies 90% of the time. Just taking off my usual hat is enough to cool it down and prevent a headache from getting worse.

 

Have you ever tried a neck and shoulder massage to ease headaches? Wish you had a nocturnal chair massage break option in the jungle.

 

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

I think that bodes well for things becoming even more tolerable after the next cut.

 

Then again, I know I was saying a hold is good, but if your body is saying "cuts in dosage feel really good, keep cutting," that's what's up. Our bodies know what they need. Mine can't wait to put these ole feet up after I make dinner. Okay, back to it!

 

Sounds like you're doing really well, man! More sunshine all the time in your logs.

[j1290]

1 hour ago, littlebird said:

I feel this way too, but then someone wise on here said, "A hold is doing something. It's gotta be nice for our systems to get a breather from having changes and just adjust to what's already happened. Although I know you want to be on a beach with no pill bottles in your carry on!!

 

Maybe if the week hold helps with headaches or other symptoms, it's a sign your body needs a beat? I tend to worry about people, so don't mind me fussing.

100% valid and great points.  Please don't forget I am stubborn and dumb 🤣

 

1 hour ago, littlebird said:

Just taking off my usual hat is enough to cool it down and prevent a headache from getting worse.

You wear beanies day to day?   I don't ice The Hat because it's too much for me, but the weight and tension of it does something enough to the scalp to mitigate some of the pressure/burning/weirdness.  It's not perfect, but good enough.  

 

1 hour ago, littlebird said:

Then again, I know I was saying a hold is good, but if your body is saying "cuts in dosage feel really good, keep cutting," that's what's up. Our bodies know what they need.

Meh I'll figure it out.   Come think of it, glad I made that last cut instead of holding an additional 3 weeks.  I'm certainly much less-bad than I was at that time.   I'm a little closer to tolerable every day.  I just went for a drive without the hat.  It wasn't symptom free, but I can see how I could get there pretty soon.  

 

4 hours ago, littlebird said:

Sounds like you're doing really well, man! More sunshine all the time in your logs.

Thanks, man.   Nice to have some days that are less of a struggle.  One day we'll be both be finished with this, LB! 

[Addax]

On 3/10/2023 at 1:03 AM, j1290 said:

Overall everything is good.  I'm far from where I want to be and this taper is still dictating my life.  However, the internal drama of neuro emotions and stress from side effects and WD are overall much lower. 

 

Yay! for this. Not as far as you'd like to be but far closer than you were.  How great will that day be when you're sitting in your kitchen eating a piece of leftover cake and suddenly realize you can't remember the last time you felt or thought about withdrawal symptoms... then have another bite of cake and even forget about that thought.  

[j1290]

7 minutes ago, Addax said:

Yay! for this. Not as far as you'd like to be but far closer than you were.  How great will that day be when you're sitting in your kitchen eating a piece of leftover cake and suddenly realize you can't remember the last time you felt or thought about withdrawal symptoms... then have another bite of cake and even forget about that thought.  

Beautifully put.  I get moments, and that's enough.  Now I want some 🎂 😄  

[j1290]

DAY 21  3/10 Headache, pressure.  Much better than this time last month.  

[j1290]

DAY 22  3/10 Headache, pressure.  Much better than this time last month.  Slammed with work these days. 

[j1290]

DAY 23  What a weekend.  3/10 usual stuff med wise.  Leaving town Wed for secret job interview.  I'm basically looking for platform 9 3/4 to get to Hogwarts on Wed LOL.  It's very mysterious.   I was going to pivot and do a cut on Thursday but I think I'm going to stick to the plan and do it Wed, that way I'll have a clear mind on Thursday to prepare for the interview Friday.  I hope.  If I don't post everything is fine I just have my hands full.  For sure I will on Saturday though.   

[FireflyFyte]

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

Leaving town Wed for secret job interview.  I'm basically looking for platform 9 3/4 to get to Hogwarts on Wed LOL.

 

Hopefully you find your platform without incident 😄

[j1290]

5 minutes ago, FireflyFyte said:

Hopefully you find your platform without incident 😄

haha thanks me too!  

[Fifree]

2 hours ago, j1290 said:

Leaving town Wed for secret job interview

Great stuff. The impromptu phone interview must’ve gone well. Good luck sneaking outta town

[Thorin]

10 hours ago, j1290 said:

Leaving town Wed for secret job interview. 

Wow that came up fast. Must’ve smashed your phone interview! Awesome 👏🏻 

10 hours ago, j1290 said:

I'm basically looking for platform 9 3/4 to get to Hogwarts on Wed LOL.  It's very mysterious.

Haha that’s cool. Let us know what it’s like when you’re done.

 

10 hours ago, j1290 said:

and do it Wed, that way I'll have a clear mind on Thursday to prepare for the interview Friday.  I hope. 

Nice! Sounds like you’ve got this sorted.

[j1290]

DAY 24  What a crazy few days.  3/10 headache/pressure etc.  I'm still on high enough a dose that I Wear the headache hat every chance I get out of the public eye, but I haven't resorted to the sumatriptan in weeks and I used to take that stuff nearly every day to get by.   Had a really productive day today, probably the most productive one in a minute.  It's really nice.  Gives me some hope that life after tapering can be that much better.   

 

Kinda terrified about the idea of doing a cut before my interview.  I'm dull witted and hangoverish now, but it's the devil I know.  I think I'll just stick with the plan and do the cut, anybody would have nerves right now.   I'll think about it on the plane though.