j1290: gets off the Wellbutrin and on with life!

[j1290]

2 hours ago, Fifree said:

Anxiety makes you feel like you need to take action, but you actually don’t. Whaaaaat? She was way ahead of her time. 

I agree 100%.   She was ages ahead of her time.   

 

2 hours ago, Fifree said:

that terrrrribly well-spoken Orstrrrralian eccent which all the newsreaders had when I was a child, but you seldom hear these days. That by itself was enough to relax me. 

I know, right?!?  A few people that I've turned on to her have said that just hearing her talk makes them feel better.  It's very powerful, her delivery.   I think her talks are as evergreen now as they were back when she gave them.  Just a brilliant woman whose primary agenda seemed to be to help other people.  

 

I had to apply some of her idea today, as a matter of fact.  Always a help when I do what she suggested.  

[Go2zero]

Sorry to read about your wave. But man, what a ride you already made....! From 450 mg to 100 mg in a bit more than half a year! That is quite an achievement!👋

 

When reading you posts I honestly thought now and then..., why don't you take a break? Tapering these meds cannot really be planned. It is not exact science and nobody does react the same after each taper...

 

But great compliments what you achieved in such a short period. You know that a more difficult part of the tapering may come when going in the lower dosage regions (does not have to be so however!).

 

I think it might be a good thing to take a serious break now and stabilise before you continue tapering. And I would suggest to listen to your body very well. Take breaks to stabilise when you feel you may be going to fast. It is not a race. And those who listen to their body and adapt their taper, most often get to the finish sooner. You are doing great!

[j1290]

DAY 24  I appreciate everyone's kind words.  I'll respond in a day or two when I can take a breather.  Things are on the mend.  Went outside to touch grass and feed some squirrels.  Good times.  

[Addax]

I just read about your recent wave, and I’m sorry you got hit by one. They suck on so many levels, yeah. I think the worst part is those thoughts that it won’t end. That crap-ass hopelessness. If we could get ourselves to remember and believe that the awfulness is time limited it would no doubt make waves more tolerable. I mean, we know on an intellectual level that waves are time limited, but we don’t believe it when a wave hits. It’s just so nutty how our brain generates such negative, wrong thoughts in spite of what we actually know to be true.

 

Glad you’re beginning to feel some relief. 

[j1290]

DAY 29  light 3/10.  Things are starting to settle to WD Normal, which isn't comfortable but is improving every cut and I think will be at a tolerable 2/10 before I know it.  I'm convinced my irregular sleep schedule due to working overnight is having an effect on my CNS and tapering, so I'm giving myself extra recovery time between cuts to recharge my batteries.  

[littlebird]

2 hours ago, j1290 said:

I'm convinced my irregular sleep schedule due to working overnight is having an effect on my CNS and tapering, so I'm giving myself extra recovery time between cuts to recharge my batteries.  

 

Sounds very wise! Glad you're listening to your body and figuring out what you need to keep seagull-surfing the waves.

[Addax]

5 hours ago, j1290 said:

I'm convinced my irregular sleep schedule due to working overnight is having an effect on my CNS and tapering, so I'm giving myself extra recovery time between cuts to recharge my batteries. 

I’d say you’re spot on. Working against the natural sleep cycle (circadian rhythm) absolutely stress brain and body.  Glad you’ll be giving yourself time for recharging. It can be tough to do when you want this s**t out of your system asap, but man, it makes the ride smoother. 

[Fifree]

19 hours ago, j1290 said:

Things are starting to settle to WD Normal

So glad to read that things are settling for you John. How much longer will you be on this cursed night shift?

[j1290]

On 4/16/2023 at 6:11 AM, Fifree said:

So glad to read that things are settling for you John. How much longer will you be on this cursed night shift?

Thanks, @Fifree.   I've got another month or so.  I used to do this shift before tapering, and I was always stressed out after 4 or 5 months.   So by that metric, I'm actually holding up quite well, now that I'm on day 31 after a cut.   That said, holding 'till I'm done with this night business sounds better and better.   I'd rather wait till I was on a lower dose so I could enjoy the break more, but I think I need to keep my focus on just finishing strong on this job right now.  I'm playing it by ear.  

 

On 4/15/2023 at 3:53 PM, Addax said:

I’d say you’re spot on. Working against the natural sleep cycle (circadian rhythm) absolutely stress brain and body.  Glad you’ll be giving yourself time for recharging. It can be tough to do when you want this s**t out of your system asap, but man, it makes the ride smoother.

You're so right, @Addax  It's too much.   After 4-5 months of overnight shift my body is stressed to the max just trying to get enough rest, much less tapering.   Now that I'm settling in to WD normal it's nice to have less emotional roller coaster but my memory and cognition are C-grade.  I don't think I can evaluate much of anything till I'm back on normal hours so I'm not going to sweat it.  

 

I'm consciously putting whatever energy I have into socializing and getting outside and out of my head.  That feels like a better play instead of doing another cut and being 10/10 stressed every day.   I could do it, but why.  

[j1290]

DAY 32  3/10 standard symptoms but not irritable, extra brain fog.  

I think the advice I got to hold 2 months for every 6 of tapering was solid.  I want to be off this stuff faster, but I'm feeling like there really is healing going on in the background the last week or so, and I better let my body catch up to be safe.  I'm not feeling great, but I think I can get by day to day without needing headache pills and whatnot.  It's nice not to struggle as much with this stuff so I have more energy for the rest of my life.   I'm feeling a little better every morning, a little more solid.   

 

I've been trying to exercise and get some fresh air and socialize a bit.   I've felt like I was just hanging on by my fingernails for so long, that felt normal.   Now that I have less turmoil, I have to figure out what do I do now?   I'm trying to have some fun answering that question.     

 

 

[Thorin]

13 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I've been trying to exercise and get some fresh air and socialize a bit.   I've felt like I was just hanging on by my fingernails for so long, that felt normal.   Now that I have less turmoil, I have to figure out what do I do now?   I'm trying to have some fun answering that question. 

Big question! Plenty of time to work that out.

[Fifree]

Was it Dr Shipko who said to hold for 2 months for every six months of tapering J? Sounds like good advice just to let things catch up. 

[littlebird]

12 hours ago, j1290 said:

I've been trying to exercise and get some fresh air and socialize a bit.   I've felt like I was just hanging on by my fingernails for so long, that felt normal.   Now that I have less turmoil, I have to figure out what do I do now?   I'm trying to have some fun answering that question. 

 

Love to hear this! Glad you're getting out and about and enjoying yourself. Hope you find big fun!

[j1290]

12 hours ago, Fifree said:

Was it Dr Shipko who said to hold for 2 months for every six months of tapering J? Sounds like good advice just to let things catch up. 

Yes, indeed, Dr. S told me that.  I think for a lot of reasons it's a good idea.  I feel like a long hold might offer some indication or mitigation of rebound, and it makes sense that everything in the CNS needs a break.  I'm starting to think I'm better off taking a break right now where I'm still uncomfortable enough that I won't be tempted to discontinue my taper.  

 

8 hours ago, littlebird said:

Love to hear this! Glad you're getting out and about and enjoying yourself. Hope you find big fun!

Thanks LB!  I'm feeding squirrels and doing laps at the park and petting friendly dogs.  Not too shabby!

[Fifree]

5 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I'm feeding squirrels and doing laps at the park and petting friendly dogs. 

I love that! It sounds so wholesome  Dogs are the best. They’re just always so damn optimistic. When I feel low, watching rescue dogs do the agility course at Crufts on youtube is bound to cheer me up.

 

 

[Fifree]

Hey J. Wanted to ask you a question about Dr Shipko pls? I read an interview with him on MIA and he seemed to say it didn’t really make any difference whether you go fast or slow in your taper, the recovery’s gonna be the same length of time. It’ll just be less of a bumpy ride with the tapering, but you can still get a rebound 3, 6 or 9 months off the drug no matter how low you go before you jump off.  
 

can you confirm? Or did I read that wrong?

[Thorin]

42 minutes ago, Fifree said:

Hey J. Wanted to ask you a question about Dr Shipko pls? I read an interview with him on MIA and he seemed to say it didn’t really make any difference whether you go fast or slow in your taper, the recovery’s gonna be the same length of time. It’ll just be less of a bumpy ride with the tapering, but you can still get a rebound 3, 6 or 9 months off the drug no matter how low you go before you jump off.  
 

can you confirm? Or did I read that wrong?

I recently heard someone talk about a ‘kick’ with antipsychotics where you get a big hit of WD 9 months after stopping. Obviously doesn’t apply to you (does to me) but there does seem to be some similarities between psych drug WD effects.

[j1290]

4 hours ago, Fifree said:

They’re just always so damn optimistic.

haha well, you never know if a human might have a treat for them!   

 

4 hours ago, Fifree said:

When I feel low, watching rescue dogs do the agility course at Crufts on youtube is bound to cheer me up.

ooooooh that's a great idea!   I have a TV at work, I'm going to throw that on!  I could use some cuteness.  

 

1 hour ago, Thorin said:

I recently heard someone talk about a ‘kick’ with antipsychotics where you get a big hit of WD 9 months after stopping. Obviously doesn’t apply to you (does to me) but there does seem to be some similarities between psych drug WD effects.

I've been reading benzobuddies lately, but certainly not as thorough as I have this website, so I might be wrong.   It seems like they anticipate windows and waves for 18 months or so after going to zero.   I certainly hope it doesn't happen, but that's on my radar as far as myself is concerned.  

[Thorin]

3 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I've been reading benzobuddies lately, but certainly not as thorough as I have this website, so I might be wrong.   It seems like they anticipate windows and waves for 18 months or so after going to zero.   I certainly hope it doesn't happen, but that's on my radar as far as myself is concerned

Just listen to your body, go slow at the end, be prepared and seemed with knowledge and practise self care and you’ll get there is what I think it all boils down to.

[manymoretodays]

10 hours ago, j1290 said:

Yes, indeed, Dr. S told me that.  I think for a lot of reasons it's a good idea.  I feel like a long hold might offer some indication or mitigation of rebound, and it makes sense that everything in the CNS needs a break.  I'm starting to think I'm better off taking a break right now where I'm still uncomfortable enough that I won't be tempted to discontinue my taper.  

 

Yay!  Seems to get through when it comes from a doctor!  In any case I am glad to hear this.

 

We do have a topic as well:

Communications with Dr. Stuart Shipko

 

8 hours ago, Fifree said:

Hey J. Wanted to ask you a question about Dr Shipko pls? I read an interview with him on MIA and he seemed to say it didn’t really make any difference whether you go fast or slow in your taper, the recovery’s gonna be the same length of time. It’ll just be less of a bumpy ride with the tapering, but you can still get a rebound 3, 6 or 9 months off the drug no matter how low you go before you jump off.  
 

can you confirm? Or did I read that wrong?

 

Keep in mind that "can" means might or could be, as far as this goes.  Let us know what happens with you.  Personally I think it is better to go slow.  If tolerated you might be able to up the time frame between 10% or less reductions from each previous dose.......but only time tells what you might individually tolerate.

 

Love your mutual support group.

 

And best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[Fifree]

2 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

"can" means might or could be, as far as this goes

Thanks @manymoretodays  I know I shouldn’t « meet trouble halfway » but I have a bad habit of scanning for trouble. John got no rebound after coming off Effexor so there’s hope for us all!

[manymoretodays]

......yah yah.....but then there was Wellbutrin long acting on board at that time too.......so, it's just never as simple as it might be someday.  As I hope it will be. 

I kind of wondered if Dr. Shipko mentioned anything to j1290 as to his thoughts on a faster taper with his last drug now?? 

 

I guess I'm not a great example as I never did get my career back and am now 65 years old and my social security disability, will become my social security income..... and in Dr. Shipko's eyes I might be considered a failure.  Sometimes I feel like a failure in my own eyes and it takes a lot to reframe it.  I could not take anymore of the "psychiatry" such as it is mainstream here.  And this is better than that for me!

 

Keep plugging your data in, or your experiences with all your drugs in your topics I guess is all I am saying.  It may be useful for a data retrieval someday or someone else may be really similar......and someday more solid conclusions might come about.  Around WD I mean.  And de-prescribing.  I hope so.

 

I got off Effexor too......only then it was escitalopram and a brake type drug that followed.  I might have been on a brake type drug while on Effexor even........

And then you are still on dextroamphetamine now it looks like.  Another great reason to get off escitalopram in combination with it at the very least.......hopefully you'll continue to pursue life without adderall too some day  or not......I mean it's your body.  And by no means am I drug shaming......you do what you have to do or believe or whatever.

At some point though I believe the stimulants are destabilizing.  Oooh, you had an MAOI too.

 

I am only too glad those days are over.

 

And I don't want to hijack another's thread too much.  I'll come visit you on yours Fifree sometime soon.

 

I'm just clarifying how our histories(drug, prescribed drug) histories are all pretty variable.  I'm a rambler.

 

Thanks.....j1290......for the space.

 

Good day!

[j1290]

6 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

......yah yah.....but then there was Wellbutrin long acting on board at that time too.......so, it's just never as simple as it might be someday. 

Exactly, I was still maxed out on Bupropion when I tapered off Effexor, so what it all means, I don't know.

[manymoretodays]

6 hours ago, Fifree said:

so there’s hope for us all!

There is still hope for us all! 💜

[Thorin]

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

Exactly, I was still maxed out on Bupropion when I tapered off Effexor, so what it all means, I don't know.

The success stories show people getting off this stuff and being ok. There’s ‘potential’ to have to reinstate a small dose for a period of time of required but that’s unlikely to be forever. People are getting off this stuff.

[littlebird]

4 hours ago, Thorin said:

There’s ‘potential’ to have to reinstate a small dose for a period of time of required but that’s unlikely to be forever. People are getting off this stuff.

 

I'm gonna have to keep reminding myself that people are getting off. Thank you!

 

5 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

12 hours ago, Fifree said:

so there’s hope for us all!

There is still hope for us all! 💜

 

Yes!! 

[littlebird]

On 4/19/2023 at 6:37 PM, j1290 said:

Thanks LB!  I'm feeding squirrels and doing laps at the park and petting friendly dogs.  Not too shabby!

 

Duuuude sounds great! Glad you're getting out and about and enjoying life. How are things progressing with the squirrels?

[j1290]

5 hours ago, littlebird said:

Duuuude sounds great! Glad you're getting out and about and enjoying life. How are things progressing with the squirrels?

I watched a video and  learned about the different vocalizations.   One is warning of a predator, one is that the predator is gone, one is that the predator might be gone but they're not sure, and the other is a mating call.   I take it with a grain of salt but I got to know our furry little friends a bit better.  

 

I've also been watching the stars a bit more.  It's amazing how bright Venus is this time of year, and it's super cool seeing Mars.   

 

I'm trying to spend time outdoors.   Just ordered a national park pass so I'm going to go to a few when this job is over.  I started doing a  little camping in the wild west aka dispersed camping areas that are freeeeeeeeeeeeee instead of the $30 a night campgrounds charge.   Good times.  

[Thorin]

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

I watched a video and  learned about the different vocalizations.   One is warning of a predator, one is that the predator is gone, one is that the predator might be gone but they're not sure, and the other is a mating call.   I take it with a grain of salt but I got to know our furry little friends a bit better.  

 

I've also been watching the stars a bit more.  It's amazing how bright Venus is this time of year, and it's super cool seeing Mars.   

 

I'm trying to spend time outdoors.   Just ordered a national park pass so I'm going to go to a few when this job is over.  I started doing a  little camping in the wild west aka dispersed camping areas that are freeeeeeeeeeeeee instead of the $30 a night campgrounds charge.   Good times.  

Man this sounds amazing and I had no idea that squirrels made different vocalisations although it makes sense that they would. So cool

[littlebird]

6 hours ago, j1290 said:

One is warning of a predator, one is that the predator is gone, one is that the predator might be gone but they're not sure, and the other is a mating call.   I take it with a grain of salt but I got to know our furry little friends a bit better.  

 

Okay, learn to imitate the friendly noises, figure out how to imitate the friendly tail flicks with your hand, and your new life as Squirrel Man the San Diego Superhero is here. 

 

6 hours ago, j1290 said:

I've also been watching the stars a bit more.  It's amazing how bright Venus is this time of year, and it's super cool seeing Mars.   

 

Yes!!!! I've been enjoying this too. I was seeing Jupiter pretty regularly for awhile there too.

 

6 hours ago, j1290 said:

I'm trying to spend time outdoors.   Just ordered a national park pass so I'm going to go to a few when this job is over.  I started doing a  little camping in the wild west aka dispersed camping areas that are freeeeeeeeeeeeee instead of the $30 a night campgrounds charge.   Good times.  

 

We need to get on this level!!!! Although, now that I think about it, with a dog we probably can't camp or hike the national park trails.

 

Please fill us in on your adventures so we can live vicariously! With all the stuff going on this summer, not sure if/when we'll get our camping in.

 

What's it like camping in So Cal? I haven't spent enough time there to get the lay of the land. I'm guessing... warm and dry? 😅 As opposed to here, where it's cool and dry.

[j1290]

2 hours ago, littlebird said:

Okay, learn to imitate the friendly noises, figure out how to imitate the friendly tail flicks with your hand, and your new life as Squirrel Man the San Diego Superhero is here. 

LMAOOOoooo!  only you would think of something so brilliant, I love it!   I swear I'm going to play some videos of squirrel vocalizations next time I run into them.  Sometimes they'll just chill on the fence and eat a nut, so I can try it out.   Will report back.  

 

2 hours ago, littlebird said:

Yes!!!! I've been enjoying this too. I was seeing Jupiter pretty regularly for awhile there too.

Without the apps I'm fairly lost, but it's super neat to be able to *finally* verify what I'm actually seeing in the sky without resorting to trying to read a book at night.  

 

2 hours ago, littlebird said:

We need to get on this level!!!! Although, now that I think about it, with a dog we probably can't camp or hike the national park trails.

If you're ever in the neighborhood, dispersed camping outside Zion was actually really great. I'm a sucker for anyplace you can see the Milky Way.   I'm not super familiar with it but evidently you can bring your dog and he can be a B.A.R.K. Ranger!  

 

2 hours ago, littlebird said:

What's it like camping in So Cal? I haven't spent enough time there to get the lay of the land. I'm guessing... warm and dry? 😅 As opposed to here, where it's cool and dry.

haha yeah it can get pretty cold at night tho.  It's just fun and nothing resets that body clock like camping.  Suddenly I'm waking at first light, which is really nice.  

 

Thorin has had what sounds like some amazing adventures.  What I'd give to go deep in the outback!

[littlebird]

42 minutes ago, j1290 said:

Thorin has had what sounds like some amazing adventures.  What I'd give to go deep in the outback!

 

Maybe that is the "finally to zero" trip!

[Thorin]

23 hours ago, littlebird said:

I'm gonna have to keep reminding myself that people are getting off. Thank you!

They absolutely are. What we see on here is just one extreme end of the bell curve of people getting off this stuff and even the people on here are getting off it. It’s just slower and a little more difficult for us.

[Thorin]

5 hours ago, littlebird said:

6 hours ago, j1290 said:

Thorin has had what sounds like some amazing adventures.  What I'd give to go deep in the outback!

 

Maybe that is the "finally to zero" trip!

Maybe you guys come to Oz when we all get to zero like John says and we do a trip to the outback…..

[Thorin]

9 hours ago, littlebird said:

Okay, learn to imitate the friendly noises, figure out how to imitate the friendly tail flicks with your hand, and your new life as Squirrel Man the San Diego Superhero is here. 

I want this

6 hours ago, j1290 said:

Without the apps I'm fairly lost, but it's super neat to be able to *finally* verify what I'm actually seeing in the sky without resorting to trying to read a book at night.  

What’s the app?

 

6 hours ago, j1290 said:

you're ever in the neighborhood, dispersed camping outside Zion was actually really great. I'm a sucker for anyplace you can see the Milky Way.   I'm not super familiar with it but evidently you can bring your dog and he can be a B.A.R.K. Ranger!  

My partner spent some time raving about Zion but we never got there…… heard it’s incredible.

 

6 hours ago, j1290 said:

haha yeah it can get pretty cold at night tho.  It's just fun and nothing resets that body clock like camping.  Suddenly I'm waking at first light, which is really nice.  

Man I want to be doing this! Not getting ready to go back to work after a week off 😞

[littlebird]

35 minutes ago, Thorin said:

10 hours ago, littlebird said:

Okay, learn to imitate the friendly noises, figure out how to imitate the friendly tail flicks with your hand, and your new life as Squirrel Man the San Diego Superhero is here. 

I want this

 

We can all separately work on this! I'm still wondering how to get birds to land on my hand like I'm a disney character, but with bird flu going around maybe I'll stick to squirrels.

 

37 minutes ago, Thorin said:

7 hours ago, j1290 said:

Without the apps I'm fairly lost, but it's super neat to be able to *finally* verify what I'm actually seeing in the sky without resorting to trying to read a book at night.  

What’s the app?

 

I use SkyView, it's free and awesome. You're gonna want to lie down and just stare at it for awhile, pretty cool to see planets and constellations like that.

 

38 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Not getting ready to go back to work after a week off 😞

 

That is one of the least fun feelings. Maybe you can pad the coming work with lots of fun things, like training squirrels!