j1290: gets off the Wellbutrin and on with life!

[j1290]

8 hours ago, Addax said:

I wish you some wicked hard belly laughs in the new year!

 

haha thanks Addax!   Wishing you the same!  It was a pleasant surprise.  When I called today, unprompted my mom said it was probably my best visit ever.  I give credit to us both, and I'm proud of being part of that.   

 

Can I ask your opinion? I started tapering at 450 mg, and after 4 drops over about 4 months I got down to 327 mg.  A few days ago I did drop #5 from 327 to 290 mg, and now I'm thinking it is probably safe to go a little further to 260mg.   I think I'm pretty safe since I'm still going to be above 50% of my the dose I started tapering from.   I don't think the curve will go parabolic until I get some where below 200mg, considering the initial dose of Bupropion was 150mg long ago.   

 

Does my reasoning have any glaring holes in it?   I'm not trying to rush too fast, but I also don't want to prolong this struggle by being overly cautious until it's necessary.   

 

Any thoughts?   My best guess is it'll be fine but the only way to really know is to try.  

[Thorin]

13 hours ago, j1290 said:

don't think I've asked you before @Thorin but does anybody in your personal life outside of family know you're tapering?   How about work? 

Ummmm one friend knows but doesn’t really get it. Another knows but she’s been through it herself. Took her two years to come off mirtazipine. My family outside of my partner don’t really seem interested if I’m honest. My boss knows I have some health things going on and I’ve talked about it to one colleague but not really in depth (he came off sertraline over a few weeks with no issues). How about yourself?

[Thorin]

And happy new year by the way. 7.30 pm here.

[Thorin]

13 hours ago, j1290 said:

One day, my friend.   It took me years, but my tapering off of Effexor did have an end. 

When you came off did you go straight to another med or have some time med free first?

[j1290]

21 minutes ago, Thorin said:

How about yourself?

Very similar situation.  Told work there's an undisclosed health situation without detail, 2 friends kinda get it, another friend really gets it since she's gotten off these before, and most of my family I don't breathe a word, for various reasons.   I wouldn't have told *any* of them if my near incapacitation didn't require some sort of explanation.  

 

Happy New Year!!!   

 

>When you came off did you go straight to another med or have some time med free first?

 

Oh nah, I wasn't med free, I was on a pill 'cocktail' of Effexor and Wellbutrin.  I got off the Effexor and was just on the Wellbutrin for 3 years or so before I started tapering it.   

 

Looking forward to your next update!

 

 

[Addax]

Thanks for the backatcha with the belly laughs. And what a wonderful thing to hear from your mom! 😊 

 

4 hours ago, j1290 said:

Can I ask your opinion? I started tapering at 450 mg, and after 4 drops over about 4 months I got down to 327 mg.  A few days ago I did drop #5 from 327 to 290 mg, and now I'm thinking it is probably safe to go a little further to 260mg.   I think I'm pretty safe since I'm still going to be above 50% of my the dose I started tapering from.   I don't think the curve will go parabolic until I get some where below 200mg, considering the initial dose of Bupropion was 150mg long ago.   

 

Does my reasoning have any glaring holes in it?   I'm not trying to rush too fast, but I also don't want to prolong this struggle by being overly cautious until it's necessary. 

It’s quite a coincidence that you asked my opinion right now. I am currently fighting the urge to drop my dose sooner than planned because I feel so well. It helps that I know I’m at a relatively critical point in my tapering  and previous experience is telling me to slow my roll a bit longer.

 

My opinion is based in a few things, including what I understand to be best practice, and my own experience. So I’m going to start with a lengthy preface to my opinion : The desire to get this whole withdrawal thing over with - Getting the drug out of our system, being done with the day-to-day uncertainty of what we’re going to feel like, and the tedium of calculating and measuring both dose and time - can be incredibly strong.  Add to that feeling really good after a reduction and our confidence in our body and brain’s ability to do it faster increases immensely as does our confidence that any symptoms that come along now will be more tolerable and less disruptive than they’d been in the past. It’s so hard to resist the urge to go faster when you feel good. SO hard.  I mean, there’s no definitive way to predict how you and your brain will respond to drops in quick succession, but the potential for negative consequences exists and those consequences can really kick our ass.  I am particularly cautious because of my experience after tapering too fast, which included tapering bupropion, but I am also simply risk aversive because I don’t want to deal with any level of personal or professional disruption, regardless of how “minor” it may be. I anticipate waves, for sure, but if I can wade in them rather than end up having to tread water in them, then it’s a win.  

I wrote all of that to write this: My opinion is that your (our) reasoning is influenced by how well you (we) are feeling and that dropping again so soon introduces an increased risk that symptoms will emerge.  Whether that’s a “glaring hole”, I don’t know. I mean part of this thing is using our brain’s and body’s response to tapering to inform our tapering schedule, right?But we also need to be cognizant that there is an element of unpredictability and risk, and that the tapering schedule recommended on this forum is well informed. I wouldn’t call it being overly cautious. It’s being careful and as kind as possible to yourself. 
 

 

 

 

[j1290]

@Addax

 

Thank you so much for that absolute treasure of a reply!   I've read it six times in an effort to really drum solid advice into my thick skull, and I bookmarked it for the future to share with others and to read whenever I want to reduce faster.   

 

You're 100% on target. Today, the 4th day after my drop, I feel great, and certainly the last 4 days have been the best I've felt since I started this whole tapering business 1.5 years ago, and probably much longer than that.  I'm going to chalk it up as my first real window and enjoy the moment.   Chemically induced or not, hey, it beats the alternative.  You're also right about feeling like now, NOW, finally, I'm over the hump, I can do this and tough it out!  hah!  LOL

 

You're also 100% correct about not wanting to measure the liquid portion of my taper.   It's surprisingly simple yet inconvenient.  

 

I spent a year trying to find a stable combination of time release/manufacturer, plus I was having job troubles related to WD, so when I started reducing I tried to be very diligent about following best practice guidelines, and I think I have been.   

 

That said, Yee Haw, hold my beer, I'm going for it!!!  🤠😜😆

 

I have 3 weeks till my job starts, and based on my own experience, Dr. Shipko's advice, and those studies, I think I can attempt a larger drop at this point while I'm still going to be above 50% of the starting dose.   I've never tried reducing more than 1/2 a pill before,  I'm scared to leave the predictability of what I've been doing, but considering the above factors I think I owe it to myself to try.  

 

When you said you didn't want any level of personal or business disruption, I remembered that my job was the main reason I had been taking such small drops even at the beginning of my taper.  I almost got fired due to WD and wanted to err on the side of caution.  Since I have this break in work, I think I can afford to take a reasonable gamble.  There's a time for everything, and I believe this is the time to go for it.   

 

I appreciate your time and thoughtful reply.  I've no idea what your background is but dang you have a big brain.   Beautiful writing.   Thank you again!

[Addax]

Thanks for the kind words. Writing it helped me process my own urge to step up the pace. 

Keep logging on and posting your experience. I hope to read that it’s all going smoothly!

[j1290]

DAY 1  Based on my research and experience, I'm dropping another 30mg for a total of 65 mg.  I think I'll be fine but I'm keeping a sharp lookout for anything unusual.   I've been very cautious up to this point, I know what my WD symptoms are for a 2.5% drop up to  10%(they're about the same), so now I'm going to push a little farther and see what it looks like when I taper higher than that.   I think it'll be about the same, until I get down to somewhere around 150mg or so.   

 

After looking at some medical studies, I've really had some cold water thrown on me.  I'm not looking forward to years of tapering when I get down to below 150mg.  Going by a 10% taper calc it was about 7 years.   I'll worry about it when I get there, but looking at the numbers....oof.   It's just harsh reality because I know on Effexor that last 35mg or so was rough.   I have scant hope that because I read Wellbutrin is an atypical AD(think that's the term) and most people have an easy time getting off of it(allegedly), that there might be some magical relief at the end of this thing, that it might actually get easier.   I don't have much hope for that but hey, it could happen and I'm not there yet anyway, and what did being pessimistic ever get me except stuck?   

 

Also, if I do 10% at those low doses(a liquid taper), maybe it's truly going to be unnoticeable?   Based on my experiment with a 2.5% drop I didn't see that, but who knows how this will shake out, better I don't worry about it now and focus on today.    

 

Today was 2/10, great most of the day but in the afternoon/evening got a headache serious enough I had to take half a sumatriptan.   Overall, however, I have felt great.  I still kinda can't believe I had 3 or 4 good days in a row.  I'm starting to get the WD symptoms now, and fingers crossed they're nothing unusually strong.   If anything seems to be over a 4/10 intensity I will reinstate 30mg right away.   In the past I've tried to tough out WD symptoms and it has literally never worked LOL

 

 

[Thorin]

58 minutes ago, j1290 said:

DAY 1  Based on my research and experience, I'm dropping another 30mg for a total of 65 mg.  I think I'll be fine but I'm keeping a sharp lookout for anything unusual.   I've been very cautious up to this point, I know what my WD symptoms are for a 2.5% drop up to  10%(they're about the same), so now I'm going to push a little farther and see what it looks like when I taper higher than that.   I think it'll be about the same, until I get down to somewhere around 150mg or so.   

 

After looking at some medical studies, I've really had some cold water thrown on me.  I'm not looking forward to years of tapering when I get down to below 150mg.  Going by a 10% taper calc it was about 7 years.   I'll worry about it when I get there, but looking at the numbers....oof.   It's just harsh reality because I know on Effexor that last 35mg or so was rough.   I have scant hope that because I read Wellbutrin is an atypical AD(think that's the term) and most people have an easy time getting off of it(allegedly), that there might be some magical relief at the end of this thing, that it might actually get easier.   I don't have much hope for that but hey, it could happen and I'm not there yet anyway, and what did being pessimistic ever get me except stuck?   

 

Also, if I do 10% at those low doses(a liquid taper), maybe it's truly going to be unnoticeable?   Based on my experiment with a 2.5% drop I didn't see that, but who knows how this will shake out, better I don't worry about it now and focus on today.    

 

Today was 2/10, great most of the day but in the afternoon/evening got a headache serious enough I had to take half a sumatriptan.   Overall, however, I have felt great.  I still kinda can't believe I had 3 or 4 good days in a row.  I'm starting to get the WD symptoms now, and fingers crossed they're nothing unusually strong.   If anything seems to be over a 4/10 intensity I will reinstate 30mg right away.   In the past I've tried to tough out WD symptoms and it has literally never worked LOL

 

 

Good luck man. I hope it brings you no more grief than 2.5 or 10 %!

[j1290]

DAY 2  It's been 5 days since I reduced half a pill, and 2 days since I reduced another half, so I'll call it Day 2 I guess.  Despite a headache strong enough I had to take 3/4 of a sumatriptan and caused me to take a nap, I feel relatively great.  I'd describe it as all the normal symptoms but less intense, and my guess is due to being lower than 300mg which seems like a fairly standard dose(I started at 150mg, then increased to 300, then 450-so I've backed down a step) - I'm getting substantially lower side effects of the Bupropion itself, with the result being I feel much better despite being in WD.  

 

This is precisely what I hoped would happen.  I have a lot less cotton in my brain, as  the kids call it, so I can do crazy stuff like simple math in my head and find more of the words that I'm searching for in there.  I guess you could call it a window, I don't expect it to last and I'll get more stupider in a week or so, but in the meantime I feel good despite the headaches.   We'll see what happens in the next few weeks but there is a clear trend of things getting better in WD and WD Normal, at least to this point.   

 

Had a little emotional stuff in the morning, maybe I'm just starting to move a little quicker into the emotion part of the healing, or I jammed up the works by reducing again 3 days after the last one.   I reckon I should start to get some indication of reducing too much in the next day or two, some unusual side effects or intensity is my guess.  Like on my very first 8% reduction, I really felt it right away.  Today my irritability when I didn't have a headache was quite low, my general feeling relatively at ease.   This is 5 days since I first reduced and I was what I call SFW or work-safe, meaning my mood was good enough that I didn't need to hide away from people to avoid being surly, which is an improvement by a day or two.   

 

According to my notes, tomorrow is scheduled to be a rougher day symptom wise, will be interesting to see how things go.  Regardless, at least today, I feel substantially authentic and in control of my own mind and less affected by the pills.   I may yet be proved wrong, but the farther I go down the mountain the more I see how much of my personality was affected in ways I never suspected because I never thought there were any side effects of this drug, as ridiculous as that sounds to my own ears now.   I've been taking a drug with an FDA black box warning all this time, at the max doseage, and without a clue.  I guess  I thought all that paperwork with the symptoms on it they give me at the pharmacy was for someone else and it didn't apply to me LOL   It's super nice to have some thinking power back, but I can feel there's more improvement to be made.  I'm still not even half way done with this stuff, but if I don't have to reinstate, I'll be at 42% less than my original dose, which is pretty awesome.   

 

I'm a little more hopeful today that when I get down to the last part, around 100mg or so, that I'll have pretty minimal symptoms of the drug itself so the WD will be easier.   So far at least, that's the trend that I'm seeing.   Effexor was absolutely wicked hard every step of the way in the end game, and I'm starting to dare to hope this will be more tolerable.   Who knows, could be!

[j1290]

DAY 3  Wish I felt as good as I did yesterday.   After I wrote that post I realized I sound, with reason, hypo manic.   Won't be the first or last time   Had a meeting with a  coach I've been working with for years today.  Luckily no emergencies to discuss, felt extraordinarily good to laugh.  I had no idea what I was missing all this time.   Such a welcome benefit.  

 

I didn't do myself any favors for predictability considering I dropped a second time after 3 days, so I'm not sure there's a certain day to refer to from previous tapers to see how it matches.  More or less though today matched day 6 of a taper, a 4/10 day due to headaches.  I really had to break out the sumatriptan and clonodine and take a nap, because this morning I woke up after 4 hours feeling some weird dread and heavy emotionally.  I was freaked out it was a sign I'd destabilized things or reduced too far, so I woke up to see if it cleared.   Just a morning terror, nothing out of the ordinary but maybe a little heavier.   Looking at my notes, I've had much, much worse days at this point in a taper.  On a couple of them on day 6 I had to white knuckle it to get through, I wrote in my notes that I should never taper again because it's impossible LOL  

 

So if I stay on track, I've got about 10 more 4/10 days ahead of me.  This has definitely gotten easier, but not easy.   The cognitive stuff has held up, it's kinda wild.   I've spent a lot of time over the months figuring out percentages and MG and whatnot, so I have a pretty good idea of my ability to do it, and that has certainly improved, despite the brain fog having set in today.   I really think the reduced dosage is helping me symptom wise.   

 

So far so good, no clear warning signs of tapering too fast at the moment.   I'm not declaring victory yet, I'll give it another week, but my optimistic hunch is that I'll be fine.   

[j1290]

DAY 7  I'm changing my numbering because I started reducing one week ago, and the symptoms best match day 7.  I am Rekt today.  Had to use the meds to get through today, but I was still somewhat functional.  Went out to run some errands, after doing a few I realized I was feeling dizzy and head swimming and irritable uh oh time to go!  So I hit the trail and went home.  Plus people were driving crazy.  

 

Felt really hungover, in a stupor.  

 

Day 7 is rough.  Looked back at my notes, and on a previous taper on day 7 I just wrote that I was too irritable to make any notes LOL  Tomorrow should be bumpy as well.  Truth is, I've felt much worse, for much longer than one day, so I'm trying to look on the bright side.   I also had 5 good(maybe hypomanic) days in a row, which was a nice surprise.  Going forward this is defo a day to schedule on a weekend if possible, although I could get by if I had to.  

 

When I was on 450mg of IR, I had days like this all the time.  

 

One day at a time.  I'm 25% through this month's taper.  The next 35% or so is unfortunate, about 10 more days.  I'll get through it.  While my brain is re-adjusting like this it's really easy to freak myself out and tell myself scary stories.  I'll try not to do that.  Onward to tomorrow!

[Thorin]

Chin up mate. I reckon you’ve got this no problem.

[j1290]

6 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Chin up mate. I reckon you’ve got this no problem.

Appreciate it, bro!  How's the beach down under these days?  Do you have to wrestle sea monsters or anything?  

[Thorin]

47 minutes ago, j1290 said:

Appreciate it, bro!  How's the beach down under these days?  Do you have to wrestle sea monsters or anything?  

Haha the beach is pretty good down here man. My local beach is on the bay, but 15 minutes drive and you’re at the real beach with waves etc. it’s not a bad spot. No sea monsters unless you count sharks and cone shells (have a google). The only real danger is the sun! I forgot to put sunscreen on my legs the other day so my legs are red raw. What do you do for pleasure my friend?

[j1290]

Looked up a cone shell, I reckon stepping on one of those would get your attention quick!  

Can't believe you're going to the beach.  At my relative's place it was -37C with the windchill, kinda nuts.  

I'm with you, I favor the outdoors.  I like to go hiking when I can and just be outside in general.   I do a little kayaking and camping, but not as much as I'd like.   Are you back to work yet?  How's that going?   I have a few weeks off right now, and to be honest I almost wish I were working to distract myself.  At least when I have a job I know what to do with myself LOL

[Thorin]

44 minutes ago, j1290 said:

 

Looked up a cone shell, I reckon stepping on one of those would get your attention quick!  

 

The ones up north are the ones you have to worry about. The ones down here, a small portion of the population will have a bad reaction to. I just make it a rule not to play with them and you’re all good. My partner got pretty freaked out when I pointed them out to her 😂

 

45 minutes ago, j1290 said:

Can't believe you're going to the beach.  At my relative's place it was -37C with the windchill, kinda nuts.

Nearly 40C here recently. I can’t even comprehend what -37c would be like. I’d probably die in about 30 mins just from not knowing how to look after myself in that sort of weather

 

47 minutes ago, j1290 said:

outdoors.  I like to go hiking when I can and just be outside in general.   I do a little kayaking and camping, but not as much as I'd like.

Same. Used to do a LOT of REMOTE camping for work and loved it. More in the office writing reports now…… probably easier with WD but keen to get back out there when WD are more in the background. Not back at work until next week. I’m about to buy a kayak actually. Got a little money to go towards it for Christmas. Pretty keen to get into it. Used to do a lot of scuba and free diving. Plan on doing some spearfishing before I go back to work

 

49 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I have a few weeks off right now, and to be honest I almost wish I were working to distract myself.  At least when I have a job I know what to do with myself LOL

Can relate. Have spent so much time lying on my bed because I didn’t have work to occupy me. Actually found myself looking at work stuff today as I feel more interested in doing stuff at the moment.

[j1290]

14 hours ago, Thorin said:

The ones up north are the ones you have to worry about

I thought it was a meme that everyting in Oz will injure you?!?  Little did I know!  I thought the thing would cut you if you stepped on it, not send you to your just reward.  Yikes!  

 

14 hours ago, Thorin said:

I’d probably die in about 30 mins just from not knowing how to look after myself in that sort of weather

There's a meter in your head like a taxi cab the instant you walk out the door and you measure how long till you can't take it anymore.   It's like walking through a giant deep freezer.  There wasn't room in the fridge after holiday meal so I think a turkey got put out on the back porch, surely colder there than in the fridge.  Good times.  You feel really alive and in the present moment, that's for sure!

 

14 hours ago, Thorin said:

Same. Used to do a LOT of REMOTE camping for work and loved it

 

Living the dream, brother!  It's still work I'm sure, but you could do a lot worse.  I can't even imagine.  

 

14 hours ago, Thorin said:

probably easier with WD but keen to get back out there when WD are more in the background.

Been reading this site a lot lately.  I wish I'd done that when I started this taper but I couldn't process it.  It's interesting to see that all the stuff discussed today was talked about 10 years ago.  Turns out I'm not the first guy to feel better in withdrawal, etc.  Who knew?   

 

Were you ever able to have your taper WD symptoms to be in the background before?  Fingers crossed things might get easier for me in the End Game, but they also might get harder LOL

14 hours ago, Thorin said:

Used to do a lot of scuba and free diving. Plan on doing some spearfishing before I go back to work

 

I was going to ask you if you were a diver!  Super jelly of your kayaking and diving opportunities.  Can't even imagine what the Great Barrier Reef is like.  

14 hours ago, Thorin said:

Have spent so much time lying on my bed because I didn’t have work to occupy me.

I'm making rando appointments in an effort to keep myself engaged.  I try to be careful not to let my irritability slip out.  One day, we'll be through and just have normal ups and downs.  

 

Can I ask you a question?   Did you have times where you had a window where you felt the brain fog lift, and the intensity of colors and sounds and things were more intense?  When you got to a low level like yours, did you get to keep any of that?   

 

After such a long time of blunted senses and thinking, I'd love to have it back.  One day!

[Thorin]

3 hours ago, j1290 said:

question?   Did you have times where you had a window where you felt the brain fog lift, and the intensity of colors and sounds and things were more intense?  When you got to a low level like yours, did you get to keep any of that? 

I feel like my brain fog has lifted a bit as I’ve been sitting at this dose and letting my brain catch up. It’s easier to focus and concentrate on things now and I bit easier to retain things and think things through. I hope it’ll get even better but it’s definitely better than it was a few months ago. 
I definitely notice that things are louder now but not as pronounced a shift as when I came of venlafaxine years ago. It’s a sign that the drug’s not muting things as much. Can be overwhelming but you’ll get used to it. It may pay to ease in to this part of the taper if you’re finding it overstimulating or overwhelming. It’s a sign you’re getting yourself back though!

[j1290]

DAY 8  Best thing I can say is I'm halfway to day 16, when things should lighten up a bit.   Had some wierd time midday where I had no headache and some kind of brain situation that wasn't unpleasant, when it's usually just a variation of pressure and headache.  I'm thinking because I did a second drop 3 days after the first, it extended the first euphoric days I get right after a reduction, and this was just something related to that.  Worth noting but I suspect unremarkable unless this pattern continues after the next drop.   If nothing else it was a brief respite.  Having some more vivid feelings and whatnot, no nightmares but waking up early feeling super hung over but in some deep emotional way and had to take a nap in the afternoon.  

 

Really looking forward to day 16.  

9 hours ago, Thorin said:

It’s easier to focus and concentrate on things now and I bit easier to retain things and think things through.

 

Awesome!  I'm still in the stupor/hangover part, but even now I'm still definitely sharper than before.   

 

9 hours ago, Thorin said:

It’s a sign that the drug’s not muting things as much. Can be overwhelming but you’ll get used to it. It may pay to ease in to this part of the taper if you’re finding it overstimulating or overwhelming. It’s a sign you’re getting yourself back though!

Great idea, I'll stay sharp and on the lookout for that.  

 

[Thorin]

4 minutes ago, j1290 said:

headache.  I'm thinking because I did a second drop 3 days after the first, it extended the first euphoric days I get right after a reduction, an

That’s interesting. The last time I tried a drop I felt better than I had in ages. I felt great! Then BAM withdrawal stepped in and kicked my ar$e. Interesting you get this as well (without the associated ar$ekicking)

 

6 minutes ago, j1290 said:

Awesome!  I'm still in the stupor/hangover part, but even now I'm still definitely sharper than before.   

I had that for a long time. Particularly with the benzo. With that med the hangover and lack of emotions stopped all at once. It was really overwhelming and took some time to acclimatise. But you do acclimatise and it’s heaps better feeling things and not being dopey all the time.

[Thorin]

9 minutes ago, j1290 said:

but waking up early feeling super hung over but in some deep emotional way and ha

How do you deal with the deeper emotions that come with less medication. I think I’ve got a handle on it then something happens and peel back another layer and I feel even more (guessing it’s my brain still catching up to the too fast taper). It’s fine and I’m better off feeling things but it can be overwhelming when a really deep emotion hits. Got to admit I don’t always know how to handle the strong emotions other than waiting for a while before acting on them if it needs to be addressed. They always pass though

[j1290]

1 hour ago, Thorin said:

That’s interesting. The last time I tried a drop I felt better than I had in ages. I felt great! Then BAM withdrawal stepped in and kicked my ar$e. Interesting you get this as well (without the associated ar$ekicking)

 

I was doing a deep dive on the Symptoms and Self Care forum and found a very old thread where others discussed this phenomenon as well.  What I wouldn't give to feel that good every day!  Well, I suppose I could if I took more pills LOL

1 hour ago, Thorin said:

How do you deal with the deeper emotions that come with less medication.

 

Emotional spirals?  I haven't found any way to tame those, so I ride them out with as little contact with others as I can to avoid acting out of those feelings.   Usually it's some variation of irritability, followed by anger that doesn't match the situation, followed by me sobbing over a Hallmark commercial 😂  I accept that doing this taper means I'm an emotional mess some days and don't judge it since it's just a passing cloud, really.   I try to sit on my hands, but it's harrrrrrrrrd.  It sucks not being able to give work/friends/family the best of me, but I have a condition right now so I can only do so much.   It's no more consequential than having diarrhea, an inconvenient simple problem that has to be dealt with immediately to the exclusion of everything else, because it just has to be.  

 

That's a long way of saying yeah man I wait it out too LOL  I used to act out in moments of emotion to get satisfaction, rather than being strategic and looking at what my goal is or how do I preserve my relationships.  Easier said than done though!

[Thorin]

2 minutes ago, j1290 said:

Usually it's some variation of irritability, followed by anger that doesn't match the situation, followed by me sobbing over a Hallmark commercial 😂

Hahaha you could’ve been describing me. My partner has been known to gently and kindly tease me for sobbing over something ridiculous. Usually this makes me laugh and I start to pick myself up again. This is better than being completely numb and not being able to cry.

4 minutes ago, j1290 said:

accept that doing this taper means I'm an emotional mess some days and don't judge it since it's just a passing cloud, really. 

I’m getting better at this. Nothing is permanent. Every feeling/state etc changes so if you feel bad for a bit, it’s ok because you’ll feel different soon

6 minutes ago, j1290 said:

sucks not being able to give work/friends/family the best of me,

I feel this so strongly. Hopefully one day we can! Out of nowhere we’ll start to excel!

 

7 minutes ago, j1290 said:

LOL  I used to act out in moments of emotion to get satisfaction, rather than being strategic and looking at what my goal is or how do I preserve my relationships.  Easier said than done though!

For me it was starting to think about how I was treating people. Particularly people I cared for. In the past I’d get angry or emotional and lash out. Now I can get angry and have a calm conversation where nobody gets ‘blamed’ or made to feel bad. I struggle with this still at times and have to wait until I’ve calmed down so I can act in a way I’m ok with. Bit of a balancing act at times. I’m sure it would get easier. I admit sometimes I’d love to just yell and throw some things. Man that would feel good but probs not the best idea around other people. A good primal scream when I’m alone in the car helps sometimes.

 

11 minutes ago, j1290 said:

was doing a deep dive on the Symptoms and Self Care forum and found a very old thread where others discussed this phenomenon

Man I do this every time something makes me spiral. Doom scrollling….. sometimes it helps, sometimes I come out convinced we’re all going to die 😂 (not really). There are some pretty dark stories and comments on this site! Ours included I guess 🤔 I feel like as difficult as our situations are, neither of us is having to endure what some of the people that have cold turkeyed have gone through. Man those people that ride it out are STRONG! They’re incredible and I take my hat off to them.

[conkaia]

Hey just thought I'd jump in to say I can totally identify with the spiralling emotions.  I'm fluctuating between rage, extreme moodiness (mainly aimed at my poor partner) and tears.  I'm a 48 yo female and wondered if this was hormonal.  But I definitely wasn't like this before my WD nightmare!  I'm just trying to ride it out in the knowledge it will eventually pass (I hope).

[j1290]

6 hours ago, Thorin said:

Usually this makes me laugh and I start to pick myself up again.

You're so lucky!  What a gift.   

 

6 hours ago, Thorin said:

I feel this so strongly. Hopefully one day we can!

It's super frustrating because this never seems to end, but I gotta make peace with only having so much of me to go around.   

7 hours ago, Thorin said:

Now I can get angry and have a calm conversation where nobody gets ‘blamed’ or made to feel bad. I struggle with this still at times and have to wait until I’ve calmed down so I can act in a way I’m ok with.

Sounds like you're doing it!   Man, it's so freaking hard sometimes, but when I get it right I sit on my hands till I can discuss something without that energy.  Preserving the relationship is Job #1, not feeling satisfied for about 5 seconds by throwing out a zinger.  That said, I forget this lesson every day.  

 

7 hours ago, Thorin said:

I admit sometimes I’d love to just yell and throw some things. Man that would feel good but probs not the best idea around other people. A good primal scream when I’m alone in the car helps sometimes.

I might have broken a laptop or two from punching it LOL  Yeah screaming while driving is the only safe way to do it that I know.  I swear as I taper off Bup I'm less agitated at WD Normal, but that doesn't mean I don't get irritable during WD.  It just can't be helped, although I've been eating like a jerk lately to cope with WD, probably gained 10 pounds.   

 

7 hours ago, Thorin said:

Doom scrollling…

LOLLLLL I forgot you called it this!  I was actually looking at the forums where people post questions.  I can only take so much of the Introductions forum because it can get so heavy, present company excepted.    But yeah, I think the first year I was posting here I wondered to myself if I would ever post anything positive, because nothing was working for me.   I wish we got the other part of the story for some of the people who stop posting, but I guess this is just the nature of things.  

 

7 hours ago, Thorin said:

I feel like as difficult as our situations are, neither of us is having to endure what some of the people that have cold turkeyed have gone through.

I don't even read the CT stories for the same reason I don't watch scary movies, it's too much for me.  My heart goes out to anybody in that situation.  I don't think I've read any story that doesn't have a too-fast taper in it somewhere, but CT is next level harsh.  

[j1290]

@conkaia

Well hello there, and thanks for stopping by!  Scotland, huh?   I'm reading your posts in the appropriate accent in my mind now haha.  Funny how that works.  

 

I'm sure you've read it, but to remind myself that I need to again, here's the Emotional Spirals thread  by the humble genius @brassmonkey 

 

I used to talk to him on a forum called PaxilProgress over a decade ago, I'm super lucky to have e-met him.   

 

I just read your signature and got outraged for us both.  I was actually doing EMDR at therapy last night about my feelings over having been taken down the primrose path when I was first prescribed these pills ages ago.   I got a drug cocktail.  Who am I to refuse a cocktail?!? LOL  

 

7 hours ago, conkaia said:

But I definitely wasn't like this before my WD nightmare!  I'm just trying to ride it out in the knowledge it will eventually pass (I hope).

I certainly do better holding my tongue at work than with friends and family.   I can shut my office door if I need to stop from spilling my spaghetti, but outside of work that's not so easy.   

 

I popped into your intro thread.  How's things for you these days?  You feeling stabilized?  I think that's the first question I ask myself in the morning, and before I go to bed at night.  

[Thorin]

10 hours ago, conkaia said:

Hey just thought I'd jump in to say I can totally identify with the spiralling emotions.  I'm fluctuating between rage, extreme moodiness (mainly aimed at my poor partner) and tears.  I'm a 48 yo female and wondered if this was hormonal.  But I definitely wasn't like this before my WD nightmare!  I'm just trying to ride it out in the knowledge it will eventually pass (I hope).

Hi, I can definitely relate to the moodiness. Feel like my family are saints for not giving me a hard time about it. And I’ve definitely had periods of rage although that’s eased a lot. Had a bad experience yesterday which I now realise was an emotion spiral/emotional flashback. I think it gets easier however you may still have to deal with any underlying emotional stuff that caused you to go in meds in the first place. I’m finding therapy is helping with this.

[j1290]

DAY 9 Woke up feeling better, and my day has been better.  No vivid dreams, only slight emotional stuff.  More vividness, some emotional stuff, overall tolerable.  Not comfy.  Felt more clarity and less headache but other weirdness.  This is the AD Life.  Day 10 of my last cut was a window.  Not gonna get my hopes up, but wouldn't mind if this one were too.  It's hard to be patient for a week to get to those days where I feel good.   

[j1290]

DAY 10  3/10 today, I'll call it a good day.  No headache stuff, still normal pressure and a little unstable, or loosey goosey as I like to call it.  Maybe this is a transition day from the physical WD symptoms to the emotional, because I'm starting to get intense feelings, anxiety, etc.  No vivid dreams, slept great and long last night.  I'm only taking 3.5 pills instead of 6, which I can hardly believe.  It's so nice to refill my pill holder and see that I'm getting somewhere with this thing.   

 

I think so far doing a bigger cut has been a success.  I was reading a tapering thread and as I understand it suggested doing 10%/4 weeks twice, then 3 weeks, then 2.  I came somewhere in the ballpark of that.  I gotta remember that just a few weeks ago during a hold I was much more in control of my mind, and I just have to wait it out to get to the next hold and feel better-ish.   I'm trying to get to a low enough dose that won't give me headaches that require me to take extra pills to do an extended hold.  Now that I say that, I'm not sure it exists, but I feel like I really will get closer to it.   

 

My senses are starting to normalize at this new level, things don't feel as vivid and sharp as yesterday as I adjust.   I've been looking at previous tapers and it's kind of amazing how precisely each one matches, and they really are getting a little easier.   The first two or 3 drops I had to sleep with the light on because I was so scared and paranoid and whatnot, and I'm getting less heavy head and dizziness, just all sorts of stuff, and the headaches are a little better too.   None of it is the immediate relief that I actually want, but there is a definite trend.  I read forums for new users of Bupropion and some report 300 mg giving them strong side effects, so they go back down to 150.   What I take from that is possible confirmation that as I get closer to 150, my side effects will ease as well, specifically the head stuff.   

[Addax]

Stopping by to check in on things…

While not all skittles and unicorns it sounds like you’re winning the good fight and tolerating the withdrawal symptoms.  It was nice to read you had a window in there.  

If you are already seeing a trend, I would bet that as your dose gets lower the side effects of the bupropion will continue to diminish.  It might take a bit before you notice or appreciate the change and remission because the withdrawal symptoms can be so annoyingly prominent.  

 

Be well and be kind to yourself, j1290!
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Addax
Spelling

[Thorin]

48 minutes ago, j1290 said:

It's so nice to refill my pill holder and see that I'm getting somewhere with this thing. 

Feels good doesn’t it. I’m glad it’s going well!

 

49 minutes ago, j1290 said:

think so far doing a bigger cut has been a success.  I was reading a tapering thread and as I understand it suggested doing 10%/4 weeks twice, then 3 w

Just read an article about how tapering is highly individual. One person may tolerate a much larger dose drop and another can only handle a minute drop. I think we just have to be guided by our bodies above all else.

 

51 minutes ago, j1290 said:

What I take from that is possible confirmation that as I get closer to 150, my side effects will ease as well, specifically the head stuff. 

Nice!

[j1290]

18 hours ago, Addax said:

Stopping by to check in on things…

Such a pleasure to have you stop by!   

 

18 hours ago, Addax said:

It might take a bit before you notice or appreciate the change and remission because the withdrawal symptoms can be so annoyingly prominent.  

Thanks for the encouragement.  A little hope goes a long, long way!!!  I know you're right, funny how nice it is to hear from someone else, though.  

 

18 hours ago, Addax said:

Be well and be kind to yourself, j1290!

I will for sure.  Thanks again for stopping by!

[j1290]

18 hours ago, Thorin said:

Feels good doesn’t it. I’m glad it’s going well!

It's really flipping nice.  Never realized before how depressing it was to load that thing up with 6 pills per day!  

 

18 hours ago, Thorin said:

Just read an article about how tapering is highly individual. One person may tolerate a much larger dose drop and another can only handle a minute drop. I think we just have to be guided by our bodies above all else.

It's all so fuzzy, isn't it?  My psych doc told me that my headaches were caused by me filing my pills a tiny amount, that I was ultra sensitive.  Glad I didn't give up after he told me that!  I think trial and error has a part in all this, because brain chemistry and how these pills even work is such a question mark.   

 

Based on my reading, I plan on keeping the same pace for the next cut, watching carefully for signs of going too fast.  I'll reinstate by half at the first warning sign.   I think I'll be OK, but only one way to find out.  

[Thorin]

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

Based on my reading, I plan on keeping the same pace for the next cut, watching carefully for signs of going too fast.  I'll reinstate by half at the first warning sign.   I think I'll be OK, but only one way to find out.  

Sounds like a good plan. I’m hoping I can tolerate my next cut of 3.57% and increase after that. Many people have said they go slower at lower doses but I’ve also read of people going faster at lower doses. Have to wait and see I guess.