j1290: gets off the Wellbutrin and on with life!

[j1290]

1 hour ago, littlebird said:

Trying to have this attitude as well and think of the future! I was also thinking about how I’ve been through rockier times with withdrawing from meds, and if I can work the ole coping skills and push through, I’ll get through this as well. Fingers crossed it’s an easy taper for you!

Thanks so much, Littlebird!  It's a small sacrifice today for many more good days in the future.  100% worth it.   If I managed to work my high stress job under worse conditions, one bumpy day while off work is a cake walk.  Just an inconvenience.   I'm going on a kick ass vacation when I'm done with this taper, hopefully by the end of this year.  It's going to be awesome!

[Thorin]

16 minutes ago, j1290 said:

inconvenience.   I'm going on a kick ass vacation when I'm done with this taper, hopefully by the end of this year.  It's going to be awesome!

Have you worked out the timeline for your taper? (Assuming you have).

[j1290]

10 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I hear that. Had a zoom meeting with two clients and actually did quite well today. Professional (ish) mask intact! Little do they know what’s going on behind the scenes lol

LMAOooooo!!!   Yeah I tell my therapist hey man, I'm cracking up internally so just to let you know, and he always tells me it doesn't telegraph.  I believe him, but little does anyone know the crazy going on 🙃

 

12 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Man that’s kinda horrific. Sounds like it took a hell of a lot of strength to get off! Which you did!

Sheesh I was just stubborn and unwilling to talk to my psych doctor till the very end cuz I knew he'd be pissed, and he was.  He did help me though, turns out the smaller dosage capsules have smaller beads, so I could taper a little more gently.   At that time I would have refused xanax or anything else, but not anymore LOL  I'm no tough guy.    

 

15 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I can get a full gym membership here for $19AUS (dollarydoos) a week here

Wait wut?  Your spin classes are included in that?!?  That costs extra here, my man!  You can probably get it down to $25/class if you buy a package of them, but you're also probably getting a live DJ and disco lighting and maybe a heated room, they can be pretty exotic.  Really looks like fun and I bet you go so much harder in a group like that.   $19AUS is less than I pay for lunch, that's crazy!  That's pretty awesome.  

 

20 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I tend to ouch myself too far in an effort to get through it all quicker. Honestly doesn’t work

I hear that.  I actually was considering quitting around 3 months in or so because it was just too much to go weekly to feel horrible.   I was watching Crappy Childhood Fairy on YouTube today and she mentioned something we discussed, how ineffective talk therapy is for trauma, but EMDR etc can help.   I'm not the biggest fan of her vids but I like some of her content.   

 

24 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I’m really lucky my therapist is amazing and really dedicated. Lucked out there.

So freaking awesome.  I've discussed it with my therapist(kinda famous, had a radio show) and he says people will contact him and ask for a good therapist in their region and he tells them he can't help them.  He said he can't even recommend anybody where we live, they're like finding a unicorn.  

 

27 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Slowly slowly getting better at this (I say after just spending a bunch of time doom scrolling about Benzo withdrawal 😂😒)

LOL yeah I hear you...I try to skip the really scary stuff.  I've looked at that benzo tapering website now and then, just to remind myself not to take them lightly.  

 

31 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Absolutely, I know one person outside of here that’s been through WD and that’s it.

That's more than most!   It's such a complicated issue, I'm glad I've only told a few people about it.  I get touchy when they offer their unsolicited advice 😂😂😂  I know people mean well, but I don't tell them how to live their life.  I hope!

[Thorin]

2 minutes ago, j1290 said:

Wait wut?  Your spin classes are included in that?!?  That costs extra here, my man!  You can probably get it down to $25/class if you buy a package of them, but you're also probably getting a live DJ and disco lighting and maybe a heated room, they can be pretty exotic.  Really looks like fun and I bet you go so much harder in a group like that.   $19AUS is less than I pay for lunch, that's crazy!  That's pretty awesome.  

I made it sound better than it is. This is for a basic gym membership at a 24 hour gym. The classes are just videos. In the past I had a human led class which costs a little more per week (for full membership). Premium gyms would be maybe $1500AUS per annum. That’s still only $30 per week. Maybe a little more.

 

5 minutes ago, j1290 said:

So freaking awesome.  I've discussed it with my therapist(kinda famous, had a radio show) and he says people will contact him and ask for a good therapist in their region and he tells them he can't help them.  He said he can't even recommend anybody where we live, they're like finding a unicorn.  

I tried three before this one. The first just recommended more trips out in the city to see bands (wtf????). The second would speak to me in generalisations and then say  ‘so I’ll see you in 6 weeks?’ Could see that wasn’t going to help much. The third I liked but he hadn’t done any actual training in any therapeutical methods, had a PhD in microbiology and a masters in psychotherapy and used ‘Dr’ in his title as a therapist. Glad I moved on from him as he was in the media a bit later on. This final one has been absolutely awesome in almost every way. 
That’s very cool that your therapist had a radio show. I’m assuming that from what you’ve said he’s pretty damn good?

9 minutes ago, j1290 said:

it.  I get touchy when they offer their unsolicited advice 😂😂😂  I know people mean well, but I don't tell them how to live their life.  I hope!

I know what you mean. I try to just share my own experiences but am very aware that everyone is very different (hence some people tolerating faster tapers than others). 
also I didn’t even noticed you called me mate the other day 😂. I hear it a lot so don’t even notice it. Funnily enough I never would’ve called someone ‘mate’ when I was younger. Must be getting old!

[j1290]

23 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Have you worked out the timeline for your taper? (Assuming you have).

The only thing I'm sure of is it'll take longer than I'd like.   I've got some broad goals and ideas, but it's just an outline since I won't really know how my body is going to react when I start to get down to that last 150mg or so.   My guesstimate is I'm looking at somewhere from 6 months if things get easier(very unlikely)to maybe 3 years or so if those last cuts are as tough as they were for Effexor.  

 

How about yourself, do you have a time line?   The scary movie I play in my head is that I'll go too fast and get thrown into instability a few months after I get to zero, so I never have an absence of symptoms and have to reinstate.   Bupropion is claimed to be one of the easiest to taper, so I do have some hope it won't drag out like it did with Effexor.   

[Thorin]

4 minutes ago, j1290 said:

My guesstimate is I'm looking at somewhere from 6 months if things get easier(very unlikely)to maybe 3 years or so if those last cuts are as tough as they were for Effexor.

Hopefully the former rather than the latter but somewhere in between maybe? It’s so hard to know isn’t it.

5 minutes ago, j1290 said:

How about yourself, do you have a time line? 

If I tapered by 10% every month starting now I’d finish my first taper early 2025….. hoping for better. Will have to see how it goes when I start tapering again.

6 minutes ago, j1290 said:

The scary movie I play in my head is that I'll go too fast and get thrown into instability a few months after I get to zero,

This worries me too if I’m honest. But it’s just another fear to add to the withdrawing list really. I’ve successfully tapered off other meds but never tapered to NO meds…… makes me very nervous. But I’m completely surviving so far so I can probably relax a bit.

8 minutes ago, j1290 said:

Bupropion is claimed to be one of the easiest to taper, so I do have some hope it won't drag out like it did with Effexor.   

I hope so John!

[j1290]

  

42 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I made it sound better than it is. This is for a basic gym membership at a 24 hour gym. The classes are just videos. In the past I had a human led class which costs a little more per week (for full membership). Premium gyms would be maybe $1500AUS per annum. That’s still only $30 per week. Maybe a little more.

A good gym here is like $350/month, but you'll get a saltwater indoor swimming pool and nobody will be living in a tent inside the lockerroom, so for that you gotta pay 😂  There's a place down the street from me that I think only does spin classes and they're like a party, it's a whole scene LOL  Looks fun.  I gotta get in better condition so I can try them out, come think of it.  

 

47 minutes ago, Thorin said:

This final one has been absolutely awesome in almost every way. 

I've been through so many.  One told me she could 'cure' my mother issues in like a couple months? 😂 One was an engineer switching careers.  The very best have been the ones that do it because they get fullfillment from it, not just collecting a paycheck.  I like the guy I see pretty well.  He's not perfect for sure, but he's pretty good and I am certain I can trust him and his heart is in the right place.  My coworker's wife is a therapist, he said she's got like 2 clients and doesn't make any money LOL  Seems like a tough way to make a buck.   

 

53 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I try to just share my own experiences but am very aware that everyone is very different

I cross the line sometimes but I try and limit myself to sharing my own experience as well.  I try to be extra careful around here.   Everybody is going through it or we wouldn't be here 😂

 

27 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Hopefully the former rather than the latter but somewhere in between maybe?

I think that's a good guess.  12 months is my over/under betting line.  For a bunch of reasons 6 months would be great, which would be a total of 1 year tapering.   It says real easy, but I have a healthy fear of reinstatement and rebound.  I try not to even think about it beyond what's right in front of me, the next cut.   

 

36 minutes ago, Thorin said:

If I tapered by 10% every month starting now I’d finish my first taper early 2025….. hoping for better. Will have to see how it goes when I start tapering again.

If I could do a slow taper that didn't have WD, and didn't have a WD Normal that also affected my work/social life, I think I'd do it.  At some point I may possibly get there, I'm guessing around 75 mg(I'm at 260 right now, which is slightly less than a mid level dose).  It's fun to even think about getting that low.  

49 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I’ve successfully tapered off other meds but never tapered to NO meds…… makes me very nervous.

This.  I haven't a clue.  Maybe I'll get a rebound, maybe original symptoms will return, maybe I'll sprout wings and I'll fly around like a bird, who knows?!?  I just remember the dread I felt getting to the last beads of Effexor about all this....and it was a nothing burger, thank heaven!   My rough plan is to take bigger cuts until I get to somewhere in that 75-150mg region, depending on my tolerance, and then give myself more time to get to zero.  

 

1 hour ago, Thorin said:

also I didn’t even noticed you called me mate the other day 😂. I hear it a lot so don’t even notice it. Funnily enough I never would’ve called someone ‘mate’ when I was younger. Must be getting old!

heh it must be codeswitching when I'm talking to an Australian!  I'd just given a few dollars to a youtuber down under the other day so I happened to notice the exchange rate made me look like a big spender.  But yeah if I said it IRL it would be so cringeworthy I wouldn't dare attempt it 😅 !   

[littlebird]

 

On 1/11/2023 at 10:57 PM, Thorin said:

Haha I may have to accidentally’break’ my camera too. It’s much easier when there’s just a black screen.

Yes, @Thorin, “break” that camera when you’re having a tough day! We’re all probably pro at masking, but it costs a lot on the hard days. It’s so nice (especially in a big meeting where it doesn’t really matter) to occasionally have some privacy/pull faces at the people you’ve always wanted to roll your eyes at. I find that tapering makes my emotions SO close to the surface, and it’s harder to keep the mask intact. I can do it, but it takes energy.

 

19 hours ago, j1290 said:

I'm going on a kick ass vacation when I'm done with this taper, hopefully by the end of this year.  It's going to be awesome!

I love this!!! Something to look forward to. You have anything in mind? A surfing trip has been calling my name, but I want to get off more of these meds so I’m present and can enjoy myself. Just planned a short weekend in the spring to go visit a friend down the coast, and it’s so darn nice to have something on the calendar to anticipate. 

 

Also, your graphs are awesome! You’re making me want to start tracking this data on another level. 

 

[Thorin]

10 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Yes, @Thorin, “break” that camera when you’re having a tough day! We’re all probably pro at masking, but it costs a lot on the hard days. It’s so nice (especially in a big meeting where it doesn’t really matter) to occasionally have some privacy/pull faces at the people you’ve always wanted to roll your eyes at. I find that tapering makes my emotions SO close to the surface, and it’s harder to keep the mask intact. I can do it, but it takes energy.

I used to be amazing at masking but it’s definitely requiring more and more effort. I’m actually trying to work on masking less but nobody needs know about withdrawals. Particularly at work. You’re absolutely right about emotions being so much closer to the surface. Doesn’t take much for various emotions to spill over at the moment!

[j1290]

13 minutes ago, littlebird said:

I find that tapering makes my emotions SO close to the surface, and it’s harder to keep the mask intact. I can do it, but it takes energy.

 

100 x this.  Fatigue is a side effect of tapering for me, and when I'm frequently irritable and emotional and raw, the less points of contact I have with coworkers, the better.  The mask slips, usually my internal dialogue slips out before I can reel it back in, something like that.   

 

16 minutes ago, littlebird said:

A surfing trip has been calling my name, but I want to get off more of these meds so I’m present and can enjoy myself. Just planned a short weekend in the spring to go visit a friend down the coast, and it’s so darn nice to have something on the calendar to anticipate. 

 

Surfing sounds amazing!   I'm thinking possibly hawaii.  One of the most beautiful places I ever visited.  I need to go somewhere nice.  You said it, a little bit of  hope and a some light at the end of the tunnel is certainly valuable!!

[j1290]

DAY 17  4/10 Bah Humbug don't feel like writing.  Never slept so much in my life.  I'm getting that light headed chemical feeling with some irritability and feeling slightly out of control but no headache mostly, which is really nice.  I'm better than yesterday though, and I think I'll feel better tomorrow.  

[littlebird]

29 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I’m actually trying to work on masking less

Me too! I find that even when I’m absolutely crumbling, the people in my life can’t tell. The mask is too good sometimes. It’s been a hinderance in seeking treatment, as I appear “fine” to clinicians. It takes work to keep the mask up, but it also takes work to crack it open and let the insides be shown. Tough stuff!

 

26 minutes ago, j1290 said:

I need to go somewhere nice.

Yes! Maybe even before the taper is over, if you need a change of scenery. Mexico and Costa Rica have big magic too, and some gorgeous coastlines. Shoot, I’m ready to pick up and go after my recent experiences and try out the digital nomad life somewhere tropical. That would probably be a lot easier without being on a med regimen, though.

 

San Diego is pretty beautiful too, that must be a nice place to live. I did a meditation retreat there that was pretty life-changing, and enjoyed my time by the water. There was a meditation garden by a surf spot that I still think about sometimes.

 

24 minutes ago, j1290 said:

Never slept so much in my life.

I know the feeling! Sometimes it feels like my brain/body are doing a hard reset, and doing big healing work when I’m asleep. I’m curious what’s going on in our bodies with these meds, and what is changing with the tapering. I found out that one of my meds, Gabapentin, was limiting synapse growth. When WD symptoms get too big, it’s been helpful to visualize how my body is growing new synapses and re-wiring what needs to be re-wired up in the ole noggin.

[Thorin]

13 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Me too! I find that even when I’m absolutely crumbling, the people in my life can’t tell. The mask is too good sometimes. It’s been a hinderance in seeking treatment, as I appear “fine” to clinicians. It takes work to keep the mask up, but it also takes work to crack it open and let the insides be shown. Tough stuff!

Exactly this. I’ve acted like nothings wrong in front of people my entire life when that was absolutely not the case. I’ve also had ‘professionals’ tell me I’m fine. I can assure you that I was not…. That’s why I came to you!!! I find it’s actually harder and currently takes more effort to be transparent and authentic (with the right people) than it does to slip the mask on for a few hours… it takes guts to be vulnerable so good on you for working at it! I try to keep in mind that some people deserve my vulnerability and others do not…..

17 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Yes! Maybe even before the taper is over, if you need a change of scenery. Mexico and Costa Rica have big magic too, and some gorgeous coastlines. Shoot, I’m ready to pick up and go after my recent experiences and try out the digital nomad life somewhere tropical. That would probably be a lot easier without being on a med regimen, though.

 

San Diego is pretty beautiful too, that must be a nice place to live. I did a meditation retreat there that was pretty life-changing, and enjoyed my time by the water. There was a meditation garden by a surf spot that I still think about sometimes.

I’m so jealous of both of you. The land in America and nearby countries is so incredibly beautiful and often awe inspiring. You’re very lucky to have these places so close by. Do you mind telling me how the meditation retreat was life changing? I’m trying out a few different healing modalities. 

 

19 minutes ago, littlebird said:

know the feeling! Sometimes it feels like my brain/body are doing a hard reset, and doing big healing work when I’m asleep.

That must be nice 😞. I miss good sleeps!

20 minutes ago, littlebird said:

it’s been helpful to visualize how my body is growing new synapses and re-wiring what needs to be re-wired up in the ole noggin.

I like this. By focussing on it you may be helping it happen too 🤷‍♂️

[j1290]

45 minutes ago, littlebird said:

That would probably be a lot easier without being on a med regimen, though.

I know, that's the issue, isn't it?  I'm glad I went to some parks last year when I did, but I'm not even sure how I did it meds wise.  I'll figure it out.  Great idea, I do need to go somewhere sooner than later.  How about this, I am going to take an extended break after my next cut.  I should be feeling better, so I can at least get out for a weekend someplace.  Sounds awesome!  

 

48 minutes ago, littlebird said:

I did a meditation retreat there that was pretty life-changing, and enjoyed my time by the water. There was a meditation garden by a surf spot that I still think about sometimes.

I have to check this out, sounds like an amazing time!

 

49 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Sometimes it feels like my brain/body are doing a hard reset, and doing big healing work when I’m asleep.

Something is going on, that's for sure.  I wake up so groggy and it takes longer than usual to shake the cobwebs out.  I'm going to make note of that, I'm glad you mentioned that because it is out of the norm, I think.  The more we talk about it the more I think  I need to do a taper vacation ASAP, for my morale and for my body to catch up.   I just need one more cut to get within spitting distance of the minimum theraputic dose of this Bupropion, where I should have significantly reduced symptoms overall, and I'll do an extra hold there and take a taper holiday LOL   Love it!   

 

35 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I’ve also had ‘professionals’ tell me I’m fine. I can assure you that I was not…. That’s why I came to you!!!

LOL like when I go to my therapists and tell them I've lost it and they say they can't tell LOL  The eyes always betray me, though, and I wish I could do a convincing newscaster smile. 

 

40 minutes ago, Thorin said:

The land in America and nearby countries is so incredibly beautiful and often awe inspiring. You’re very lucky to have these places so close by.

I guess the grass is always greener, you know?  Everything far away seems so mysterious compared to boring old home.   'Straya seems 1000 times more interesting than here to me.  

 

42 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I miss good sleeps!

Chem sleep or not, not gonna lie, I feel great 😆   Now that you mention it, when I was on that max dose of Effexor I'd have to take naps and crash harrrrrrrd and nothing could stop me.   That was my nap this afternoon, something AD related for sure.  Pshew I feel like a million bucks now, though.  This is inconvenient, but 100% worth it.  I've had so much more fun interacting with people since tapering.   

[vfx150]

@j1290

Hope you are doing well. Regarding Effexor tapering and quitting, I have few questions. Appreciate if you can help.

1. How long you took Effexor? dosages? XL or regular?

2. How long it took to taper & quit? Was is at 10% taper?

3. How long since you quit Effexor? Any W/D symptoms?

4. While tapering, what supplements you took that helped? I am taking omega, Magnesium, Multivitamin, etc but I heard, as you reduce SSRI or SSRS, adding Tryptophan or 5 htp ( at least 8 hours apart from Effexor) can help. Did you  try any of these?

 

Thank you!

[littlebird]

15 hours ago, Thorin said:

Do you mind telling me how the meditation retreat was life changing? I’m trying out a few different healing modalities.

Sure! Meditation used to be really uncomfortable to me, cPTSD made it seem unsafe to close my eyes in a room full of people and try to detach from senses/hyper-vigilance. I gave that retreat a shot, as I knew some people going, and was pleasantly surprised to find that the kind group of people made meditation feel more comfortable. Also, the teacher (who has since passed on) was really good with trauma. I also got a scholarship, much needed as I was a public school teacher at the time, and it felt like a sign from the universe to give it a go.

 

Part of the magic for me was also the scenery, I was living in Northern California after living in a much colder part of the country, and visiting the different climate down in San Diego felt really special. It was so much more warm and tropical feeling than the coast up north I was used to!

 

I met some really special people there, that helped a lot too. We connected on a deep level, in a way I hadn’t connected with others before. I’ve since done some more group therapy, and the connections I made reminded me of the people you meet in mental health settings.

 

The conversations weren’t the small talk you’d make in other settings, we got real with each other about the deep stuff. There was a willingness to go deep and be vulnerable that I found really refreshing, and was able to meet folks in that and go deep and be vulnerable myself.

[littlebird]

15 hours ago, j1290 said:

16 hours ago, littlebird said:

 

I have to check this out, sounds like an amazing time!

 I found it online! I wasn’t sure if I would remember it after all these years, but the name “Swami’s Beach” floated up out of my memory, and sure enough, the meditation garden was right next to that. Self-Realization Meditation Garden. Not San Diego after all, but not too far. I hadn’t tried surfing yet at that point, but watching the surfers at that beach really inspired me to try.

 

Looks like there’s a temple attached, but the local who was showing us around didn’t take us there. The garden itself was really wonderful. Sometimes I’ll visualize myself sitting there, looking at the ocean, when I need a break from where I actually am.

 

Also, @Thorin, totally agree with @j1290 that the grass does sound greener with Australia, I’ve wanted to visit since I was small. Looks so amazing there.

 

It would be tough to be that isolated! We are spoiled for choice, especially in California. You could have snow in the morning in the mountains, then be on a beach before sunset. Australia looks seriously amazing, though! Plus, your marsupials! We just have possums, and their cuteness has nothing on your animals.

[j1290]

4 hours ago, vfx150 said:

1. How long you took Effexor? dosages? XL or regular?

Just for the record I'm not a doctor, not offering medical advice, I'm a dum dum and I've done a million stupid things and plan on doing many more, this is just my experience. 

I can't remember how long, but it was around 5-10 years total at least.  300mg and I don't remember if it was XL or regular.

 

4 hours ago, vfx150 said:

2. How long it took to taper & quit? Was is at 10% taper?

Somewhere around 2-3 years, maybe a little longer.  I took about 5 months to get to down to the last 60 balls, which were the hardest part.  Since I was on such a high dose getting off the first 80% was relatively easy.  Check out this study that I got this Seratonin Occupancy chart  from.  I didn't have anything like this way back then.  I'm no expert, anyone who knows better please chime in, but as I understand it there's a theory that tapering gets really hard once you start tapering in the zone on this chart where the occupancy percentage starts going parabolic I think the term is.  I don't know if that's true or not, but I can tell you it mirrored my personal experience.  

 

Then I did around 10% from there, every 3 weeks or so with longer holds when necessary, updosing when I went too far, sometimes I did over 10% sometimes less depending on mood.  Check my old blog for more precise details.

 

For the record this is also my personal current approach to tapering Wellbutrin.  I think I can take bigger cuts right now and will have to slow down as I get to lower numbers, but this is based on my personal experience as I go and WAG(wild ass guess), I don't have any studies or data.  I'm willing to experiment and accept what happens when/if I go too far and have a crash, but that's just for my situation at the moment, I'd never suggest that for anybody else.  I'm just figuring it out as I go along.    

 

4 hours ago, vfx150 said:

3. How long since you quit Effexor? Any W/D symptoms?

It's been 10 years.  I had heavy W/D symptoms while doing cuts, but nothing after getting off the last bead that I can recall.  I was expecting it, too.  

 

4 hours ago, vfx150 said:

Did you  try any of these?

I tried 5http but I think the only thing that really helped me was fishoil.  Even that didn't help a ton, but I recall it as helping a little.   Here is my cringe old journal if you're interested.  PaxilProgress is where some of us started out, then it closed and here we are.  

 

Good luck with the Effexor!  I got off it somehow, and so can you!

[littlebird]

22 hours ago, j1290 said:

Great idea, I do need to go somewhere sooner than later.  How about this, I am going to take an extended break after my next cut.  I should be feeling better, so I can at least get out for a weekend someplace.  Sounds awesome! 

Yes, I love this idea! Sometimes just a weekend away or a lil camping trip will do me a world of good. When the weather is nice, there’s a campsite on the water that has enough signal to get work done at a picnic table listening to waves.

 

Looking forward to summer for more time outdoors! Travel is so good to get a fresh perspective too. Who knows, maybe Australia is in your future! You can see how the other hemisphere lives.

[j1290]

21 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Who knows, maybe Australia is in your future! You can see how the other hemisphere lives.

haha sounds amazing!  I'd love to go...never say never!

 

DAY 18 327-260MG   

I should start these by noting what that cut was like I do in my daily sheets.  3/10 Irritable/scalp on top of head on fire/temple pressure but I think I'm confirmed over the hump and starting to feel more in control of my mind and not so loosey goosey.   I did a search for Bupropion occupancy charts or whatever mechanism being used that would let me find a chart like for Venlafaxine above.   I can't find anything for free, and since I don't know what I'm really looking for I don't want to spend money to guess.  Basically I'm trying to nail down when things get real with this taper and difficulty goes parabolic, which based on some other longterm users story I think is likely.  Until I find some hard data, I think my guess of 75-150 mg is pretty solid.  Looking at my old Effexor taper blog I'm feeling deja vu.   Back then the first 80% was so easy to get off of, I thought I could breeze off of it in 6 months or something.  I would be surprised if things were different with the Bupropion.   I've looked at some studies and they had a checklist of how to determine how hard it would be to get off your AD, and lucky for me Bup is one of the 'easiest', but my length of time on it is a kick in the shins since its been at least 15 or 20 years I bet, plus I experience heavy symptoms from cuts that most people don't, which adds to the difficulty.   

 

My strategy is to accept that this taper will be as difficult and long as Effexor, and if it's easier I'll thank my lucky stars but don't expect it.  Based on my first 5 cuts the side effects have been very similar despite the wide range of % dropped, so I'm going to make another drop of 1 pill in a couple weeks.  My experience seems to support the parabolic curve theory of tapering so far, so I'm comfortable with the risk and have a good record of previous cuts to refer to.  Based on previous experience reinstating if I get into trouble I think I will start to get some relief within the first 3 days and get back on my feet within a few weeks if I overshoot the mark.   I can live with that at this time with my workload.  The sooner I can get into that parabolic arc, the sooner I'll start to feel some relief from these side effects of the IR tabs.  If I can get something approaching feeling OK during WD Normal, it'll make all of this that much easier.   Just did a quick survey and it looks like the brain lock that I've been having since I began this taper in '22 is indeed getting better, just not as quickly as I'd like.  

 

Blah blah blah, sleeping a helluva lot, which appears to be par for the course, and mild head pressure, little bit of paranoia and emotional stuff.  3/10 nothing unusual and feeling much better than yesterday.  

[vfx150]

19 hours ago, j1290 said:

Just for the record I'm not a doctor, not offering medical advice, I'm a dum dum and I've done a million stupid things and plan on doing many more, this is just my experience. 

I can't remember how long, but it was around 5-10 years total at least.  300mg and I don't remember if it was XL or regular.

 

 

@j1290Thank you for reply and the link to your journal. I agree we all have different path while dealing with drugs like Effexor but hearing someone's experience that is relevant is helpful.

 

Starting from 150mg XL (2020), I am down to 62.5mg of Effexor daily now - 37.5mg regular release before breakfast and 25mg XL(2 mini tablets) at 1 pm after meal. I've been at 62.5 mg of Effexor for several months, so starting the tapering again this Feb at rate of 10% reduction every month. I am also trying to get liquid Effexor so it'll be easier to taper rather than make my own solution from 37.5mg tablet or cutting the tablet down further (which doesn't work with XL mini capsules). I also take stimulant (Delmosart XL) but won't be reducing that till I'm done with Effexor. I take fish oil, Multi vitamins & minerals, Mg, D3 K2, probiotics, etc. I also take 500 mg of Tryptophan before bed with Mg and a probiotics. I'm cleaning up my diet regarding sugar and takeaways, etc and run at least 30mins daily (5 days a week ) on treadmill at speed of 3KM/hr. Like you, it might also take 3-4 years for me to finish at least but for now I need to keep moving forward one month at a time.

 

Regarding mood and temperament, I feel flat & bit down mostly with occasional burst of energy and good feeling. I've noticed that meditation and doing inner work has definitely helped to reduce triggers. Many events or behaviours that used to trigger me throughout the day. But now things might be improving a bit. Now, 10% of triggers don't seem as potent as before. Looks like even trigger reduction is also going at rate of 10%   Still a long way to go though. I feel this change will not only help me during quitting but even after that.

 

Let's see how all this will go after Feb. Excited but also cautious as I am down to lesser dosages of Effexor.

 

Cheers!

 

[j1290]

21 minutes ago, vfx150 said:

Starting from 150mg XL (2020), I am down to 62.5mg of Effexor daily now

Congratulations!!  

 

27 minutes ago, vfx150 said:

Like you, it might also take 3-4 years for me to finish at least but for now I need to keep moving forward one month at a time.

I would take breaks here and there to catch my breath, I think sometimes up to a month or two.  

 

45 minutes ago, vfx150 said:

Excited but also cautious as I am down to lesser dosages of Effexor.

I'm excited for you too.  Please post often and let us know how things go!!!

[vfx150]

@j1290 Yes, I plan to take 60 days break towards end of each year. Will keep posted. Thanks!

[Thorin]

12 hours ago, vfx150 said:

Regarding mood and temperament, I feel flat & bit down mostly with occasional burst of energy and good feeling. I've noticed that meditation and doing inner work has definitely helped to reduce triggers. Many events or behaviours that used to trigger me throughout the day. But now things might be improving a bit. Now, 10% of triggers don't seem as potent as before. Looks like even trigger reduction is also going at rate of 10%

Hope it’s ok that I commented. I am finding many triggers are less….. ‘triggering’ on a lower dose too. You may find you’re MUCH calmer as you reduce your meds. I still get triggered, particularly in waves, but when I’m in a window the trigger is much less and I bounce back faster than I ever did before. You’re doing well!

[j1290]

DAY 19  2/10 side effects physically, but I planned to go out to run some errands and almost had an anxiety attack LOL WTF?!?   Weird.  I was being irritable (but kept it to myself) Then I came home and slept for who knows how long and I guarantee you it's related to the taper.  I've been reading other Bupropion threads and people noted how exhausted they were, and I'll be darned if that's not me too.   

 

I think physically it was better because of course, I'm on a lower dose, and I'm in the emotionally fragile part of recovery so there it is.  I feel good not because of hypomania, it's the absence of a lot of the pill side effects so it's just more like less-sick.  On day 19 last month I just said I was emotionally weird, which matches, but hey, I didn't have to take any pills for headaches or whatnot, so I'll look on the bright side.  

 

Whatever I'm in the sweet spot of taper today when I feel almost normal for a day or two, which is kinda cool.  I re-read the Wellbutrin tapering thread, I always find something new.  I suspect the reason I feel good in the mornings is because I'm going into withdrawal overnight, and I always feel good the first day after withdrawal.  I'm going to adjust my dose so the larger one is at night.  I don't expect a huge change from this, but it might do something.  I also read another guide to tapering, and they suggested a liquid taper that reduces ~1mg/day to keep with 10% a month, something like that.   I'll keep it in my back pocket for now, along with possibly switching to 100mg SR and tapering from that because it's easier on the system than the IR, which keeps me in perpetual headache.   Anyway the webpage mentioned that some people like to do the cut and suffer method that I'm doing because it's so predictable, which it has proven to be, but for me it causes 2 pretty rough weeks.  It's worth considering some options.  I've been too scared to try anything else, but now that I'm finishing my 5th cut, I'm more open to it.  I think I'll schedule a doctors appointment for next week and give myself time to think about it.  

 

And just because I can, here's a new chart since last week.   Maybe I'll start doing these once a month or so, when I start every new taper.  Yeah that makes sense.   

 

Looks like there's a cap to the images you're allowed to upload, and insert image from URL doesn't seem to like IMGUR links for some reason.  If anybody has a thought on how to get a chart to show up, I'm all ears.  No big deal though.  Just trying to add a little spice to my updates.  

 

[Thorin]

5 minutes ago, j1290 said:

If anybody has a thought on how to get a chart to show up, I'm all ears.  No big deal though.  Just trying to add a little spice to my updates.

I’m curious too. Tried to post a photo yesterday but couldn’t…..

[vfx150]

6 hours ago, Thorin said:

Hope it’s ok that I commented. I am finding many triggers are less….. ‘triggering’ on a lower dose too. You may find you’re MUCH calmer as you reduce your meds. I still get triggered, particularly in waves, but when I’m in a window the trigger is much less and I bounce back faster than I ever did before. You’re doing well!

@ThorinThanks! It is better than before but hoping for the anxiety and restlessness to go down further as the dosage are reduced, especially during windows.

[Thorin]

40 minutes ago, vfx150 said:

@ThorinThanks! It is better than before but hoping for the anxiety and restlessness to go down further as the dosage are reduced, especially during windows.

I still get a bit of anxiety but it seems manageable. Restlessness hits occasionally but not often anymore. It was pretty bad for a while.

[vfx150]

52 minutes ago, Thorin said:

I still get a bit of anxiety but it seems manageable. Restlessness hits occasionally but not often anymore. It was pretty bad for a while.

Are you still on Effexor? Maybe meditation or calming techniques might help. It seems to help me.

[Thorin]

8 hours ago, vfx150 said:

Are you still on Effexor? Maybe meditation or calming techniques might help. It seems to help me.

I stopped Effexor in 2004. Coming off other meds

[Thorin]

10 hours ago, vfx150 said:

Are you still on Effexor? Maybe meditation or calming techniques might help. It seems to help me.

I use breathwork as a calming technique. It seems to help. The amount it helps Depends on how severe the wave is.

[j1290]

DAY 20  3/10 weird and emotional, just like previous day 20.   No headache this morning till 5pm.  I switched that half pill from this morning to the evening.  My theory is I'm in WD in the morning so I don't have a headache, and then in the evening after its had time to be absorbed I'm getting a headache side effect.   Just a guess, but worth considering.   

 

I'll keep my complaints to myself because we all have them.   Have a long term job interview on Friday, start a new job on Monday, and thinking of starting a taper on Saturday so the worst days will be over the weekend.   It's not ideal, maybe I'll push the taper a week.  We'll see.  I feel so frustratingly close to feeling normal some days.  So far the taper has been challenging but uneventful.   I don't expect that to last forever, but I'll appreciate today.

[littlebird]

49 minutes ago, j1290 said:

DAY 20  3/10 weird and emotional, just like previous day 20

Oh, are you timing these with each taper? I like that! Still trying to figure out how to keep track of things, and what to keep track of in this process. Thank you for sharing your journey and methods!

[j1290]

11 minutes ago, littlebird said:

Oh, are you timing these with each taper? I like that! Still trying to figure out how to keep track of things, and what to keep track of in this process. Thank you for sharing your journey and methods!

Littlebird, I did everything wrong with my Effexor taper, and my first attempt at tapering Wellbutrin.   But I guess I had to do that to get to where I have a bit more structure.  I use the Glemullen Daily Withdrawal Checklist found on this site.  I printed out a million of them and keep track of my symptoms for every day of WD for all 5 of my cuts in a big 3 ring binder.  Turns out, my symptoms that I thought were bafflingly inconsistent, are actually extremely similar from cut to cut.  I track my symptoms throughout the day as I write down when I take my pills, then give it an average score for the day.  Now I put those into a spreadsheet so I can look for trends in my graph, and I keep a running total of the average scores and write it on the bottom of my daily check list, so I can refer back to previous tapers and see if I'm overall having higher or lower symptoms than previously.   

 

What has all this data done for me?!?  I dunno, killed time, kept me occupied and out of trouble, and given me a sense of control over a process that is frustratingly out of my control.   It really has taken away a lot of anxiety and mystery about the whole process.  

[littlebird]

1 minute ago, j1290 said:

What has all this data done for me?!?  I dunno, killed time, kept me occupied and out of trouble, and given me a sense of control over a process that is frustratingly out of my control.   It really has taken away a lot of anxiety and mystery about the whole process.

I love this, and would appreciate any sense of control I could find. Finding patterns in the data sounds very helpful! Maybe an engineer will wander on here one day and build us an app to keep track of all this, chart data, and note patterns. 

[Thorin]

14 minutes ago, littlebird said:

I love this, and would appreciate any sense of control I could find. Finding patterns in the data sounds very helpful! Maybe an engineer will wander on here one day and build us an app to keep track of all this, chart data, and note patterns. 

I’ve been doing this too although a little different to @j1290. Once I start tapering again I think I’ll start doing it like @j1290. I like the predictability he’s found through recording his symptoms in detail.