Muddles: desperate

[Muddles]

I thought I would up-date on my appointment with Dr Healy.

 

First and foremost, he recognized all of my symtoms and side effetcs as mirtazaine related which is a huge relief for me. He didn't seem impressed with my doctors lack of knowledge and understanding, especially to my initial adverse reactions from the beginning. He also agrees that I am super sensitive to medication and that my initial anxiety and stress did not need medication *sigh*. He also recognizes poop-out and that it certainly does happen.

 

He recommends that I stick to the 10% every 4-6 weeks but said I could go faster if I wished, as I am not stable at any point in reduction.

I had told him about this wonderful site and that I had learned a great deal from here.

 

He also stated that mirtazapine is a very difficult antidepressant to withdraw from. It is different to an ssri and doctors are not aware of this. He is going to draw up a report for me to take to my doctor and state that I need support through my taper. He has seen people successfully withdraw from mirtazapine but with great difficulty! So scared.

 

I didn't expect a cure from Dr Healy. However, I feel liberated to actually have spoken to a health professional who has actually listened, understood and acknowledged my current and previous situation is not down to so called 'mental health problems' .

He also says that another antidepressant in my situation and history is not advisable.

 

I look forward to taking the report into my doctors.

How serious he takes it, I do not know.

I just want him to recognize that serious adverse effects can happen with these drugs and that withdrawel is nasty and shouldn't be done overnight.

[Meimeiquest]

Thanks for sharing this. I googled mirt the other day and it did look very, very nasty. I feel so sad that people feel they have had a wonderful visit to the doctor when the doctor just understands what is wrong. Can you imagine that in other medical specialties? But I am glad that you have this confirmation to move ahead, difficult as it is.

[Muddles]

I know Meimequest....I put all of my trust in that doctor. I suppose we all did, why wouldn't we?

I blame myself too. I was thinking about having some therapy, maybe online as I am not leaving the house at all at the moment.

 

I need to let go at what has happened and move forward...very difficult to do.

[mammaP]

Hi Muddles, just catching up here. I am glad you had your appointment with Dr Healey  but really sorry

it took so long. I bet he was angry that your doctor trivialised your condition to him, and think he would have

seen you sooner if your doc hadn't told him it was anxiety! 

 

It is very validating when you are believed and taken seriously, in turn others take your symptoms seriously too.

I know I sound like a stuck record but it really will get better and I hope you get a window very soon.

[Muddles]

Thank you mammP.

 

Yes, don't think Dr Healy was impressed with my GP. My friend suggested I file a complaint but I haven't the energy and still in the land of nothingness and apathy to peruse anything just yet.

 

I hope all is well as can be with you. I know you have moved....happy new home!!

[Muddles]

*pursue* oops spelling error!

[Miami1]

Hi Muddles:

Your doctor visit seems to validate what us mirtz victims pretty much figured all along,which is once it stops helping it begins to create havoc and damage.

 

I made a hefty cut May 2nd . I cut .7 from a 1.7 dose. I've been on 1mg for ten days and I don't see any relief even if I would hold for 3months. This drug makes you as sick while on it as off it.

 

What are your plans for reduction ,how fast do you plan on cutting. I don't know what I'm going to do only that I'm feeling worst every day and dosing 1 mg at night I feel the discomfort of the drug 10-20 min after the dose. I wake up every day with this nightmare.

 

 

I'm get these feelings (waves)where I think holding my breath will relive the feeling of my chest and stomach emptiness and desperation. This deep void with hand and body tremors

This wave (feeling)of overwhelming desperation &anguish,panicky, defeated, confused and anxiety all in one!

 

Muddles Is this depression or anxiety ? Do you experience these feeling all in one that can last for several hours for no reason especially when waking up to them in the middle of the night ?

Is there in short a one name for these symptoms that hit all at the same time?

 

Anyway if you where 10 days ago at 1.7 mg and are now at 1 mg how would you proceed ? I'm thinking of reduction again in a week or ten days. I may reduce .3. I'm even thinking of reducing to .5 for a while and just stoping.

 

I feel so bad I have thought about going back on benzos to help with the WD .

 

Hope your better, Miami

[Muddles]

Hi there!

 

It's a really difficult situation when your body/mind is rejecting something. I had the symtoms you describe and others when I hit poop-out full blown. Felt like I had cold turkeyed. At the moment I have complete numbness and apathy - I think if I jumped out of a plane I would feel nothing. It's very disturbing and not quite sure of its any easier than my side effects/withdrawel effects I had weeks ago.

I had the waking up in the middle of the night with the deep depression/anxiety states. Not sure if I can put any name to it apart from HELL. I have had a break from this for a while - like I said, I'm just numb.

I remember doing a mantra over and over again one night - 'this too shall pass'.

 

These terrible symptoms you are getting are all drug related...a big difference to any normal kind of anxiety or depression...so raw.

It's tragic how something that is supposed to help actually turns into debilitating anguish. Wrong!

 

Do you feel better or worse after a drop? Maybe hold for a little longer and drop again in a couple of weeks?

 

I'm on 11mg now. Will wait for a while, maybe 4 weeks until I drop again. Very scared of all this to be honest, my heads not my own anymore.

 

Let me know what you plan on doing. I'm always checking your posts and thinking of you.

 

Don't let the beast win.

[Miami1]

When I dropped 9-10 days ago .7 I have defiantly gotten worst. Thursday was horrible but Friday all day long was good, until the evening. Them that evening started with anxiety and depression into Saturday all day. Last night maybe 6 hrs sleep. Still in bed its 10am with headache and bit anxious shaky, Appetite down.

 

In feb. When I came off at 3.75 after one months use I should have road it out! It's just that I had still some strength and confidence now I feel psych and physically weak as well as scared to death the consequences of ct, even at 1 mg

Glad you've sorted out some !

[Muddles]

I wouldn't go so fast then if you are feeling worse after the drop.

I would wait for a while longer.

 

6 hours sleep is quite good - you don't want to risk dropping too fast and suffering with no sleep.

 

Sorry you are suffering like this. Do you have friends or family to talk to?

[Miami1]

Oh yea. But after so many months of WD I feel they've heard enough. I'm keeping all this under raps with work and acquaintances. I'm figuring out how I'm going to get out of work where I'll have to travel to remote islands in the Caribbean for a month in June.

That means no way out if I go batty , which in its self just knowing I can't fly out, will at least at this time cause panic.

My sxs are so intense these days I don't have much hope for June getting way better.

 

I just hope I don't have to go back on benzos to finish getting of of this crap.

 

Take care Sara

[mattinsmom]

Hi

 

Just a quick check in

I am so glad to see that you finally connected with Dr. Healy. I feel a window coming on for you. Please keep us posted. 

[Muddles]

Hi mattinsmom! Nice of you to pop in...thank you. Hope all is ok with you. Missed you on here.

 

Miami1 - Seems so cruel you having been given this to get off a benzo. I wish I could tell you what to do. I just hope you get some stability soon.

 

One of my friends popped in today to tell me that her doctor wanted to precribe an antidepressant for pain she has in her leg!!! Absolute joke!

[Wolfhound]

Hi Muddles,

How are you doing now? I read that you finally reached dr. Healy, that´s great. Did your doctor see his recommendation and what was his/her reaction to it? Would you continue reducing the mirtazapine?

I am thinking of you....W.

[Muddles]

Hi Wolfhound! How are you?

 

Dr Healy is doing up a report for me...still waiting for it. Not sure how my doctor will react but I will have a lot to say to him about it.

 

I struggle Day to day. I still can't believe what this drug has done to me.

 

I am reducing mirtazapine and am down to 11mg now. Will carry on dropping 10% every 4 - 6 weeks.

 

Let me know how you are.

Thanks for dropping by.

[mlrp]

Hello, Muddles,

 

I'm a newcomer here and just wanted to say hello and wish you well. I am into my 14th month on Remeron (mirtazapine) but have to deal with Wellbutrin withdrawal and eventual tapering before I can even address the mirtazapine. I won't dwell on it now because that's not where I am (trying to always stay in the present moment) except to say that I do occasionally fear the dreaded mirtazapine poop out. I fear that it will "quit me" before I get a chance to "quit [read: taper] it!" Still, that's not for now (as they say).

 

I haven't had a chance to read your full story, but will, with interest. I feel for you in your struggling - and wish you easier days ahead.

 

Also wanted to add that my husband and I enjoy trips to the UK, especially the midlands - so, hello again from across the pond! IWe haven't been since 2011, and I don't know when I will feel well enough to go again, but it's in our plans to get back there eventually.

 

Love and light

[Muddles]

Hi mlrp!

Nice to meet you!

Where are you from? I'm surprised to hear you visit the midlands...I didn't think there was much to see or do in this area.

 

I wouldn't worry about poop-out. Doesn't seem to happen to many for a long time. Mine was brought on by my dads death, lthough there were signs before such as sudden visual problems and vertigo. It was practically like a switch for me.

 

I will read your intro. You will get a lot of support on here.

 

Look forward to hearing more from you.

[Muddles]

First window today for a very long time.

 

Managed to to get up, shower, and take the kids to school....something I haven't done in a long time! Also cleaned downstairs and did some washing....go me!!!! Oh and cooked the tea.

My husband was very happy....not having to cook tea for a change.

 

This is a big achievement for me. So strange how one day can be totally different from the rest. I'm praying for more days like this. At least one more day so I can at least manage to clean up-stairs.lol

[Wolfhound]

Hi Muddles,

I answered on FB. And I found your post about Yolanda Lucire and answered as well. That´s simply great you managed to speak to her.

I am so happy for your window!!

[bubble]

First window today for a very long time.

 

Managed to to get up, shower, and take the kids to school....something I haven't done in a long time! Also cleaned downstairs and did some washing....go me!!!! Oh and cooked the tea.

My husband was very happy....not having to cook tea for a change.

 

This is a big achievement for me. So strange how one day can be totally different from the rest. I'm praying for more days like this. At least one more day so I can at least manage to clean up-stairs.lol

 

another miracle of a window! they come so unexpectedly and unannouced but I soooo rejoice in them. It means that whatever we are doing here, we are on the right track! (I mean YOU

 

And even if an unexpected breeze shuts them, we know they will come again and that this is our true state still under all those symptoms.

 

this has just made my day so thank you very much for letting us know and a big hug to you and Wolfhound!

[WinningThrough]

Yay! A window! May there be many more.

[Miami1]

Hey M. That's such great news! I hope this continues indefinitely !

I'm still struggling now my anxiety level is way up and sleeping one night and not the next. When I don't sleep the following day is horrid.

Don't know if he mirtz is causing the anxiety or the benzo or both. Anxiety is worst in the mornings specially with out sleep prior night,

Also in the evening after I sleep well the night before.

 

I've read where mirtz users have suffered from higher anxiety from its use . I'm not getting much from it and haven't for some time now but you very well know how that goes. Even at 1mg I feel like a prisoner. My last drop (.7mg)was two weeks ago so I will give it another week and see where I'm at. At that time I will consider my options again. I want so much to just stop it!

 

Anyway I wish you a wonderful day !

[Bellisimo]

Hi Muddles!

 

I just wanna say that iam so sorry for your loss <3

[mlrp]

Hello Muddles -

 

Definitely a HUGE GO MUDDLES! for your window! Enjoy every moment of it - who knows, it could big the start of a great, big one.

 

Re. my husband and I and the UK - we just enjoy most things about visiting there. Found some friends from Brum, and found that not only was Brum a great, centralized area to base oneself for short trips to other parts of the UK, but that the midlands is full of interesting places to see and, mostly, really lovely people. Can't quite put a finger on it, but folks from the midlands seem real and down to earth. And we enjoy the mix of industry (well, what's left of it :-\) and culture to be found there. We are even longtime supporters of a midlands football club - but I dare not say which lest you are supporters of a rival team and then we couldn't be friends! (Just kidding!)

 

Anyway, just a big hug to you for having some lovely respite from the struggle.

 

Love and light 

[Muddles]

Wolfhound - thank you. I do hope you are having better days yourself. I think of you often.

 

Bubble - thank you. We never think we will see that window ever again when in the pits of despair. I always thought windows meant 'normal', but I have accepted that 'normal' will not come for a time. I now understand the windows as to being 'functional'...I may not be able to go out on the town with my friends but I can take my Children to school etc.

I hope you are ok...hugs.

 

mlrp - you're right about us folk - very down to earth...too much sometimes (you have to meet my husband)! Football team - villa? Blues? West Brom? Come on, own up! Hope you are keeping strong. Hugs.

 

Bellisimo - thank you. These darn drugs have not let me grieve yet. I suppose I will have to deal with it later on down the road somewhere.

 

Miami1 - thinking of you...you can do this. Mirtazapine stinks.

 

Winning Through - thanks. I pray for windows for you too. You deserve some pretty amazing windows.

[bubble]

Wolfhound - thank you. I do hope you are having better days yourself. I think of you often.

 

Bubble - thank you. We never think we will see that window ever again when in the pits of despair. I always thought windows meant 'normal', but I have accepted that 'normal' will not come for a time. I now understand the windows as to being 'functional'...I may not be able to go out on the town with my friends but I can take my Children to school etc.

I hope you are ok...hugs.

 

 

 wow, Muddles this is such a valuable insight. After all these dark months when things were just not improving, I'm really so, so very happy for you!

 

I'm also doing a way better than a few months ago thanks for asking (waves still come but pass and continuing my slowwww taper).

[Muddles]

Good to hear bubble!

 

I'm starting to struggle with sleep. I NEVER feel tired. (I hate this, because prior to mirtazapine..could sleep anywhere at anytime, loved sleep).

 

As soon as I drift off I suddenly wake gasping for air. It's happening more frequently recently - along with a bubbling sound in my lower part of my throat.

 

My sinisitus has gotten a bit better...not so painful at night but now this! Would anyone know what this could be?

[mammaP]

I am delighted for you Muddles, you deserve this window and I hope it lasts a while longer for you. 

The insomnia could well be withdrawal related, windows are great but sometimes come along with

insomnia, I wish I had the answer to that question for you, maybe someone else will have an idea

what causes the breathing problem. 

[mlrp]

Hello, Muddles,

 

Just checking in - after your very nice reply to me of a few days ago. I apologize that I am sloooww on the uptake with communications. Just part of the landscape on this journey, I guess, but it's not my favorite way to be. *sigh*

 

So... I will own up to being a Villa supporter. Hope that doesn't mean we can't still be friends! :-P Been following them since about 2000, and have seen three matches (two in Brum and one US friendly over here). At least we managed to beat relegation (again!), so I'm happy for now. I do so miss visiting the UK. Right now the thought of travel is pretty daunting. Will have to start small and local and work my way back overseas. The "before" me was soooo different - capable, vibrant, joyous, and pretty much fearless. I miss her. But I know I mustn't dwell on what was - only on the here and now, and count my current blessings - of which there are many.

 

I wish I had something to offer re your sleep / air intake issues. Could it be your sleep position (i.e., sleep apnea, if you sleep on your back)? My husband can only sleep on his side - soon after laying on his back, he starts snoring, then that eventually stops, and he stops breathing altogether, at which point he will wake with a start and a gasp for air. Luckily, he is practiced enough at sleeping on his side that he doesn't need further intervention for sleep apnea.

 

I wish you well today. Say hello to the midlands for me!

[Addax]

Hi Muddles. I happened upon your thread this morning and am very happy to read about your window!

 

Wolfhound - We never think we will see that window ever again when in the pits of despair. I always thought windows meant 'normal', but I have accepted that 'normal' will not come for a time. I now understand the windows as to being 'functional'...I may not be able to go out on the town with my friends but I can take my Children to school etc.

What you wrote above is so true. In the moment it's hard to remember that windows even exist even when we just experienced one! There's a thread titled, "it's always going to be like this!" where this kind of thinking is talked about. I would provide a link, but I don't know how.

 

Maybe we should make a video or audio recording or write a letter during a window so we could watch, listen to or read it to remind us that it really did happen. Like a message from our window brain to our wave brain. "Dear wave brain, you're wrong..." And on like that.

[bubble]

I just wanted to say hi and let you know that I've been thinking about you.

 

Happy to see your posts in other people's threads. I know that you are still fighting your brave fight but hope things are at least a bit better for you.

 

On your journey you have gained such great insights that I put something you wrote on the Best of SA the other day

 

hugs,

bubble

[mattinsmom]

Stopping by to say hello. Hoping that the sleep has resolved itself. As for the breathing, not a clue. I'm curious as to how that is going for you. Is it progressing?

[Muddles]

Hi both. Thank you so much for dropping by.

 

I haven't really posted lately but seem to be going down so rapidly. I have woken up this morning feeling very out of sorts..hot all over with a doom feeling and feeling very drugged. The thoughts and images are constant and battling them is difficult. I have no emotional connection with anything what-so-ever and living like this is truly un-bearable.

 

My son is showing signs of OCD and my daughter is showing signs of anxiety. Watching their mother change and suffer like this is taking its toll and it's soul destroying. Would they be better off without me - no, but this is destroying them either way.

 

I blame myself for ever touching these drugs. When developed Akathisia on Citalopram why didn't I just stop there and then? Why when I started mirtazapine and suffered suicidal depression, Akathisia and delusions and god knows what else - why didn't I stop!?

 

Totally failed my family and my children. This drug has took their mother away. I have no connection to my memories or life. Feel totally brain damaged.

 

This is truly a depressing post and I'm sorry.

[Muddles]

What do you do when you want to take your own life so bad? Hospital is not an option.

[WinningThrough]

None of this is your fault muddles. I stayed on citalopram for two months when I should have come off it after the first tablet. I've made tons of mistakes but we did what we thought was right at the time and had no idea of the impact of these poisons. It won't be like this forever. You'll get off this drug and you'll feel better. You have not failed anyone. The drugs companies failed you. You're remarkable because you're coping with this. Hugs.

[Wolfhound]

Muddles,

don´t blame yourself. Please. We are in it with you. We all suffer and I understand your feelings so much. I blamed myself so much for staying on Trazadone for two months and I blamed myself dor believing all mental health professionals who kept telling me that it was normal to have suicidal urges - that it is a part of anxiety!! Even if I wasn´t anxious or depressed all my life...Don´t repeat my faults...try to think about all the people who love you just as you are.