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ultimatumprisoncell: undoing 20+ years of antidepressant damage

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Rosetta

UPC, do you live a rental unit?  If so, do you have a written lease?

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ultimatumprisoncell
On 1/15/2018 at 9:13 PM, Rosetta said:

UPC, do you live a rental unit?  If so, do you have a written lease?

Hi Rosetta,

I am living in a rental. It's a complicated situation though. There is a lease, but primarily in my now ex-fiancee name. I have no desire to stay where I am not wanted, it is just a matter of finding the right combination of answers and resources I suppose.

I have an appointment with an attorney later this week and will probably know a little more then.

Thank you for your concern,

UPC

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Rosetta

I see.  Good luck.

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ultimatumprisoncell

Update. Not much of one. Added magnesium (solo, not a cocktail of other questionable ingredients). for my insomnia and waking anxiety/panic. Seems to be a tiny bit better. Hard to say if there's a correlation. My doctor is on the same page with me and is being very understanding... Some stress done away with there. But... Murphy's Law, combined with some great cosmic joke determined to test the very limits of my tolerance, have left me still so very ill and weak... And with far less strength to cope. And now horrible anger and feelings of betrayal. But only for the lies.  Lies. Lies. Lies. Lies. Manipulated once again (in my horribly fragile state) into believing for just a day or so that MAYBE I actually WAS a human being that MATTERED to someone. But only for his benefit. And I was only blinded for a moment. And I'm not the only one. I will move forward in doing the right thing, as that is the nature of who I am. I will be the better person. 

But my suffering will never be minimized or denied. I will allow it no more. I hurt. That's all I need say. 

 

Best wishes,

UPC

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ultimatumprisoncell

Just need to rant really. I'm about as stabilized now on the Prozac as I think I'm going to get. Still very much suffering from all the physical and neurological WD from the Effexor and Zoloft. I have days here and there where I've felt like it may be getting a bit better. Then I have my bad days.  The horrible on-and-off diarrhea tends to make those worse. The Prozac can hardly do its job if it goes right through me... Hopefully I'm absorbing some of it... 

But then you always have that one friend that means well... And in my case pretty much the only friend who is willing to try to help me. But I just basically got fed up with her for the last time and told her to stay the hell out of my life. She keeps insisting I "was doing fine" when I was on my old meds...(which I in fact was NOT, as they were causing ECG abnormalities and secondary hypertension; not to mention I was gong through WD often hours before my next dose was due... Cyp450 mutation) She drove me to the doctor last week(my disorientation and balances issues make me afraid to drive)all the way insisting "we'll get you on the right meds and feeling better". (I had that discussion with my doctor solo And the taper regimen continues as planned). And then when I'm complaining about being so sick, or when I have too much emotion for her comfort level she again starts insisting its because "I need the right meds". I keep trying to explain it's residual from the recently d/c Effexor and Zoloft... She's literally asking me why I don't just get back on them? Hello... Just explained that one right? Also have made it known that I intend to be free of ALL psych meds some day... In which she then Proceeds then to have the gall to tell me I'm causing my own suffering... And she can't help me because I won't help myself. 

I quite rudely ended the phone call after asking her to never contact me again.

Maybe I'm just having an extra cranky day.  But one of my biggest triggers right now are people's ignorance and insensitivity to the horrible suffering these meds have put many of us through; and of course, anybody's insistence that my current emotional state (AD WD) warrants psychiatric intervention or drugs of any sort. 

 

UPC

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powerback
25 minutes ago, ultimatumprisoncell said:

Just need to rant really. I'm about as stabilized now on the Prozac as I think I'm going to get. Still very much suffering from all the physical and neurological WD from the Effexor and Zoloft. I have days here and there where I've felt like it may be getting a bit better. Then I have my bad days.  The horrible on-and-off diarrhea tends to make those worse. The Prozac can hardly do its job if it goes right through me... Hopefully I'm absorbing some of it... 

But then you always have that one friend that means well... And in my case pretty much the only friend who is willing to try to help me. But I just basically got fed up with her for the last time and told her to stay the hell out of my life. She keeps insisting I "was doing fine" when I was on my old meds...(which I in fact was NOT, as they were causing ECG abnormalities and secondary hypertension; not to mention I was gong through WD often hours before my next dose was due... Cyp450 mutation) She drove me to the doctor last week(my disorientation and balances issues make me afraid to drive)all the way insisting "we'll get you on the right meds and feeling better". (I had that discussion with my doctor solo And the taper regimen continues as planned). And then when I'm complaining about being so sick, or when I have too much emotion for her comfort level she again starts insisting its because "I need the right meds". I keep trying to explain it's residual from the recently d/c Effexor and Zoloft... She's literally asking me why I don't just get back on them? Hello... Just explained that one right? Also have made it known that I intend to be free of ALL psych meds some day... In which she then Proceeds then to have the gall to tell me I'm causing my own suffering... And she can't help me because I won't help myself. 

I quite rudely ended the phone call after asking her to never contact me again.

Maybe I'm just having an extra cranky day.  But one of my biggest triggers right now are people's ignorance and insensitivity to the horrible suffering these meds have put many of us through; and of course, anybody's insistence that my current emotional state (AD WD) warrants psychiatric intervention or drugs of any sort. 

 

UPC

I get you on the freinds issue ,I had my last straw with a life long friend yesterday ,I stoped ringing this person months ago ,and twice since he rang me to meet up and never showed ,im sick enough  without having to put up with hes carry on,in the year and a half of my worst withdrawl this man has wrecked my head .its so easy for friends like yours to hide behind the doctors and claim there being suportive .

freinds fall out over a lot less so dont judge yourself at all .

My only worry is I mite be on the radar of he's narsasistic girlfriend .the stuff ive had to listen from him of the way she is ,ile never do it again.way too onesided of a freindship.

Take care.

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ultimatumprisoncell

I have not updated in quite a while. The disastrous results of my CT incident have haunted and held me prisoner for eight months.  It is finally over. Over as far as the courts, the "justice system" have declared. I can NOW ONLY begin to start picking up the broken pieces of my wreckage and attempt to start emotionally healing as a result.

 

The "meds" have destroyed my life. The one person who claimed to understand this and love and accept me despite this has made very poor decisions in his own personal life. 

 

Mistakes that he can NEVER blame on these horrible drugs, as he's never so much as entertained the thought of "popping" an SSRI in his 57 years of life. 

 

Something that began destroying my life shortly before the turn of my 18th birthday.

 

When all I was doing was being a "Compliant patient", accepting the "Advice" of " physicians" who never knew me and never felt the need to "Follow up".

 

Please excuse and forgive me; for being bitter and angry. I'm sure this is something that many of you can identify with.

 

25 years of being told I was "Crazy". "You must really need the meds". "Your suffering/symptoms are all in your head/due to the fact you're ******* crazy (and therefore need to be medicated).

 

God bless my primary care physician. 

 

Who, after the cardiologist thinking he was god and knew everything, stood up for me. Told them he knew me and maybe wasn't familiar with (maybe, but very unlikely this was not the very first he'd heard of the horrors of SSRIs) all of the detrimental effects. But I was definitely having them. And it was definite SSRI "Discontinuation". Withdrawal really. My medical records do not include the term "Discontinuation". It is withdrawals. And he acknowledged it. He certified my SDI temporary disability based on the diagnoses of "Psychosis" and "Emotional lability" as a direct result of "Tapering of antidepressants".

 

God bless him.

 

God bless all of you.

 

Ultimately, the charges brought against my ex who was completely innocent were dismissed today.

 

And ultimately, the reason the DA dropped said charges were because of this website.

 

I had written them a desperate plea in late december that mentioned survivingantidepressants.org as the reason I clung to reality and sanity. The reason I didn't become a suicidal statistic. And begged them to open their eyes.

 

They finally listened.

 

The DA requested last week that I send them my and his blog entries from survivingantidepressants.org.

 

And then dismissed all charges immediately upon reviewing them.

 

This website is likely the only reason an innocent man is not going to jail.

 

And this website is likely the only reason I continue my battles.

 

I was much heavier than I'd been in my life late in the antidepressant days.

 

Much of that was poor diet/diabetes/psych med weight.

 

The weight never dropped with dietary changes and diabetes meds, in fact went up after the fact. Especially after the Zoloft was introduced. And despite of the fact I was on moderate doses of Adderall. 

 

I became violently ill when I started my taper.

 

I lost myself completely when I discontinued that taper at an unheard of "miniscule dose" even over a nearly two year taper with "rescue meds" added on.

 

I have been violently ill ever since. I am 5'7". Weighed in at 124 at my doctors office last week.

 

Nearly 50 pounds less than I was a year ago.

 

I needed to lose some of that weight, if you technically want to go there.

 

I just never imagined myself at 40 years old, after giving birth to and raising three children (ages 16, 18 and 21) as a size 2.

 

I have only SSRIS to "thank" I suppose.

 

Most of all, I just needed to reiterate with all of you how important your stories are.

 

Your suffering means a lot, to someone, somewhere.

 

It is not in vain.

 

They are starting to listen to us.

 

God bless you all and thank you for your bravery.

 

Edited by ChessieCat
changed capitalised text to lower case

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EagleDoc

I am that innocent man @ultimatumprisoncell Is referring to.  I also would like to thank this site for educating and elucidating people as to the horrors of these “medications” (read: poisons).  But most of all, I want to thank @ultimatumprisoncell For sticking it out and finally getting the DA to understand how “out of her head” she was at the time.  She will still need a lot of time to “heal” and a lot of counseling to work through all the events that caused the PTSD in the first place, but I will stick it out and support her during that time if she will allow me.

 

I still love her to death and want nothing less than the world for her.  I have had some other tragedies in my personal life involving my ex-wife and my irresponsible son whom my ex-wife poisoned against me.  There were some very tough decisions I had to make when they left and I thought I was making the best decision for all concerned, in retrospect, I should have made the tougher decisions.

 

@ultimatumprisoncell I still believe you are truly my “soul mate”, I am here if you want me.  I will do everything in my power to help and support you through this and for the rest of my life if you will let me. 😳💙

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SkyBlue
19 hours ago, ultimatumprisoncell said:

 the cardiologist thinking he was god and knew everything, stood up for me. Told them he knew me and maybe wasn't familiar with (maybe, but very unlikely this was not the very first he'd heard of the horrors of SSRIs) all of the detrimental effects. But I was definitely having them. And it was definite SSRI "Discontinuation". Withdrawal really. My medical records do not include the term "Discontinuation". It is withdrawals. And he acknowledged it. He certified my SDI temporary disability based on the diagnoses of "Psychosis" and "Emotional lability" as a direct result of "Tapering of antidepressants".

 

 

It sounds like you are doing well. That is great. 

 

Am I correct that your cardiologist helped you to receive disability? And that he mentioned SSRI withdrawal, and this was approved?

 

Any info you would feel comfortable sharing might be of immense help to others who are facing financial devastation due to months or even years of protracted withdrawal. 

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EagleDoc

Yes @SkyBlue, The ICD-10 code for the condition is: T43.205S,  “Adverse Effects of Unspecified Antidepressants, Sequelae”.  It was her Internist who certified her disability due to the psychosis that the WD’s caused.  I am the Cardiologist (NOT thinking I was God) who did a whole hell of a lot of research and have successfully withdrawn people from all kinds of drugs in the past, including Heroin, Barbituates, Benzodiazepines, alcohol, etc.  Frequently using a combination including the centrally acting Alpha Blocker, Clonidine.  I had never tried to get someone off SSRI’s or SNRI’s before so I had to do a lot of research, on medical and public blogs, in medical journal articles online and making phone calls and discussing it with psychiatrists who had done this.  (She refused to go to a psychiatrist, stating “they’ll just put me on more meds!!).  Interestingly, in all my years of helping patients withdraw, the one common thread had always been the addition of Clonidine.  No one mentioned and I didn’t find any recommendation for that medication for SNRI or SSRI withdrawals....not until MUCH later after all of this had transpired.  There are now several articles talking about using Clonidine as a first line agent, especially in pediatric patients, for the conditions like PTSD that the SSRI and SNRI’s are frequently prescribed for.  The addition of Clonidine, as little as 0.05-0.1 mg a day or twice a day, has made a TREMENDOUS difference in her anxiety, ability to sleep, a dramatic decrease in the night terrors (both when she remembers the nighttime dosage), ability to concentrate and her patience.  Just stopping the Zoloft (unfortunately CT) made her BP normalize, so had to be careful on the dosage of Clonidine so as not to drop her BP too much and cause her to feel dizzy or have syncopal episodes, as it is normally used as an anti-hypertensive medication.  This medication is prescription only , and MUST be taken under a physician’s close supervision if anyone wants to try it.  I am not offering medical advice, just relating what helped her greatly.  Hope that helps.

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ultimatumprisoncell

@SkyBlue

 

The cardiologist (yes, being EagleDoc and my s/o) had done an ekg which was abnormal showing significant QT prolongation. I also had "mild" hypertension and had for several years. This was a direct result of the Effexor I was on (and had been for several years) at the time. This is also common with most other SSRIs.  I had wanted to get off these meds for years but was terrified due to my prior attempts. Now there was medical necessity to at least get off of the Effexor and if necessary on something similar but not problematic from a cardiac point of view anyway. I had armed him with hundreds of journal articles, news stories and introduced this website to him so that he could understand exactly what he would be dealing with. I think it's quite evident he ended up dealing with a whole lot more than he bargained for. But that was not his fault. And that was just further proof to him how horrible these poisons truly are.  Because of issues that arose when I went CT (read his posts if you'd like to be enlightened, and sadly yes, I really WAS that crazy!) and also due to the fact that he is my s/o and the legalities of him treating me as a "patient" necessitated that my primary care (internist) physician be the one to prescribe/make any medication changes. (As he always had once I started refusing to ever see another psychiatrist).

 

So it was my Internist who certified my temporary disability for a full year, and yes it was granted by the State. I initially did the paperwork to get the ball rolling, but insisted he fill out his part and submit it.  I also armed him with the diagnoses codes (see ICD 10 code mentioned by @EagleDoc) as he was rather unsure of how to go about coding it. But I absolutely WAS granted temporary disability and have fortunately been able to continue to pay my own bills for now.

Additional supportive diagnoses were "psychosis and emotional lability as a direct result of tapering of antidepressants". That was as close to word-for-word as I can get without actually pulling up the documents. 

I am very fortunate that I had a good existing physician that had been seeing me for years and knew me well enough to know this was not me. And to listen. The healthcare system is a joke I am all too familiar with, as helping people navigate it and getting results is normally what I do for a living. You need first and foremost to have a physician who WILL listen to you. I stress that to people every day. If your doctor will not listen? Time to get a new one. 

If there are any California members who are unable to work because of these poisons I will be happy to educate them as to options available here. Also, I can provide referrals to those in Southern California to at least 2 or 3 internists who WILL listen, should there be any forum members wanting to find a new doctor. 

 

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SkyBlue

Thanks for the info. We don't necessarily guide/help people with applying for disability, but if they're willing to do the work, this is valuable info you've shared. It sounds like you've had your suffering legitimized by medical professionals, which is such a blessing. Hoping for continued healing. 

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ultimatumprisoncell

@SkyBlue

I should have probably clarified that a little better... Yes, I did have my suffering legitimized by medical professionals and that was kind of my whole point. Not everyone in these forums necessarily "needs" or would meet qualifications for disability. But none of us will ever get the help we need until our personal treating physicians are at least attempting to understand and validate it. There was no need for me to use attorneys and I didn't have to go to "some disability doctor". It was a form I filled out and then my existing physician happily filled out and signed his portion. The supportive diagnoses used in my case are of course unique to me and my cluster of symptoms, this was all his wording and he had no issues coding that. But for the "global" reason (aka the ICD-10 code referred to above) as to why I was applying in the first place there is sadly no ICD-10 for antidepressant "discontinuation" or withdrawals. There are for just about every other medication under the sun. The code supplied is a more nonspecific (but the most specific we could get) code that applies to a number of things falling under its definition. If it helps puts things into perspective for those on those on this website who don't understand the complex world of medical coding:

In the ICD 10 book medical conditions are "coded" and all codes begin am alphabetical letter. Each of this letters represents and further classifies the codes into categories of medicine such as "conditions having to do with pregnancy", "conditions having to do with the endocrine system", etc. 

 

Codes S00 through T88 are all assigned to "Injury, poisoning and certain other consequences of external causes." 

All codes are then further broken down with a decimal point and a required additional 1-3 numbers to provide the most accurate diagnosis possible. 

And to further complicate things, many codes will then need to be specified with an additional alphabetical letter indicating more of its status.

The "S" at the end of this above mentioned code is for Sequalue, indicating that this is a chronic condition caused by another condition, medication, injury, etc.

 

So essentially the only ICD code we can eqivalate with SSRI withdrawals/discontinuation (to date anyway) is a "poisoning" code.

 

These drugs ARE poison.

 

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manymoretodays
2 hours ago, ultimatumprisoncell said:

In the ICD 10 book medical conditions are "coded" and all codes begin am alphabetical letter. Each of this letters represents and further classifies the codes into categories of medicine such as "conditions having to do with pregnancy", "conditions having to do with the endocrine system", etc. 

 

Codes S00 through T88 are all assigned to "Injury, poisoning and certain other consequences of external causes." 

All codes are then further broken down with a decimal point and a required additional 1-3 numbers to provide the most accurate diagnosis possible. 

And to further complicate things, many codes will then need to be specified with an additional alphabetical letter indicating more of its status.

The "S" at the end of this above mentioned code is for Sequalue, indicating that this is a chronic condition caused by another condition, medication, injury, etc.

 

So essentially the only ICD code we can eqivalate with SSRI withdrawals/discontinuation (to date anyway) is a "poisoning" code.

 

Thank you UPC(B) another code!) for clarifying that.  Gives me hope.  For my condition to be legitimized as well.  I've ended my "psychiatry career"..........I feel I was patient long enough with "those" people.  I do see a GP who might be willing. 

 

And I do have a therapist who is very "peer like" at this point........after years of struggling through, with other therapists that just were never quite the right fit in their approach.  Labelers.  Boxed me up.   Unfortunately, she has to bill using DSM(Diagnostic statistical manual) codes as well.  I think I had to use ICD codes back in the day, when I did billing in general medical care.  And then other codes for treatment provided.    Just the way it is.  And I don't mind paying my therapist......it's just a co-pay.   If one has insurance.......visits must be coded to get payment for anything complaint at all in the U.S.  Mental health is still lacking in parity to Medical health in the insurance world.  It's a shame.

 

For me.......the best, the most helpful in my healing and recovery journey........ has always been what is freely offered and openly received........keeps the Universe in balance.

 

Grateful for my continued health and healing, and best wishes for yours.  Hugs for your enduring........what sound like most awful experiences

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Edited by manymoretodays

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ultimatumprisoncell
27 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

after years of struggling through, with other therapists that just were never quite the right fit in their approach.  Labelers.  Boxed me up.   Unfortunately, she has to bill using DSM codes as well.  Just the way it is.

I certainly understand your journeys through finding the right therapist. I put my foot down finally years ago and refused to ever see another psychiatrist again. I've never had a problem with seeking a therapist however. I've had a small handful of amazing ones in my life, therapists I wish I could feasibly continue to see. I've also had my share of horrible ones. And then, there's never a shortage of the ones that just give you "that look" like "REALLY? You must be either:

A. Full of 💩

B. Really crazy and REALLY need therapy.

Those are the ones I can never bring myself to follow up with. 

A good therapist, especially in the absence of a very strong "support system" is essential for all of us really. What saddens me most are the stories I read in these forums about people who never had ANY "mental health issues" prior to taking these meds, were prescribed off-label and are now facing battles they should never had to face. They need therapists as well (IMHO anyway). But unlike those of us who needed it to begin with due to any number of reasons, these are the members who only need therapy as a direct result of horrible drugs and the ignorant "physicians" who pushed them in the first place. 

 

I was unsure of your wording as to your therapist having to "bill using DSM codes as well."

 

I am in no way implying you know the difference or not; but felt the need to clarify to anyone who does NOT and may be reading this:

 

I was speaking of ICD-10 codes only.

These are all "medical" diagnostic codes which are completely separate from DSM codes (mental health codes). And certainly not to be confused with CPT codes (procedural terminology codes having to do with payment and fee schedules). CPT codes represent the service/procedure charged. Diagnostic codes are required to justify payment of any CPT codes billed through insurance.  Diagnostic codes are just required, PERIOD, as far as "acceptable practice" goes. ICD-10 and DSM codes are both diagnostic, the difference is that in "medicine" (and certainly by insurance standards that necessitate all of these codes in the first place) there is a complete separation of the terms "mental health" and "health". The only crossover really is in Psychiatry: They are essentially "therapists" with an MD. And can therefore prescribe drugs. "Medicine" and the modern insurance models differentiate this so disparingly that it has created a "need" for separate "diagnostic manuals". 

There are even separate fee schedules and codes under DSM are they are not reimbursed as highly as "true medical codes" aka ICD-10.  This is the problem. WE NEED an ICD-10 code, as THIS IS 100% a medical problem.

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manymoretodays

That was it UPC. 

I didn't remember the procedure code.  And had my DSM diagnosis confused with ICD-10 diagnosis.

 

The CPT codes for procedures.  ICD-10 (I think they used to be 9.....probably upgraded).  It's been awhile.......

I agree......it would be nice to have a code for withdrawal/discontinuation syndrome, or iatrogenic symptoms due to overzealous prescribing practices and/or withdrawal.  Poisoning.  It is traumatic.  No doubt about that.

 

Everyone has mental health issues though.......at some time in their life.  Why do people not have strong support systems?  I tend to think if society took a step back, or perhaps embraced people for their differences, and looked out for others- basically if we had tighter knit communities of caring and compassion........maybe we could prevent child abuse and damaging misbehavior to others.  Maybe a pipe dream.  I'm a dreamer.  

 

I don't do much therapy.  Have done some recently because.  I pass no judgement.  What does get to me though is that once DSM diagnosed.........there's no progression to wellness in our current mental health/illness system for so many.  It's cyclical or intermittent for many of us, or not what "they" told us it was.  It can, I believe be self managed at some point for everyone.  Too many get co dependent on their therapist..........again........if only communities filled the gap.  Or maybe therapists get co-dependent on their patients.  B)  And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out when drugs are the problem.  I wish that they......therapists........would at least learn a small bit of what we know.  And give input to prescribers that a person just might be overmedicated, or behaving strangely, since on yet another drug or having W/D.  That would be nice.  Especially with GP's doing so much prescribing of this stuff now.

 

Off my soapbox.

 

Certainly it's hard to find a support system on the ground that "gets" how these drugs affect some, or how very intense W/D can be at times.  I mean I get that. 

 

Perhaps you would like to start a topic in the relationships section, or off topic, on Social Security Disability Income.  We do get questions about that from time to time.

 

Anyway......glad you are making good progress.  Some good thoughts too, thanks for sharing, and for the clarification.

Best,

mmt

Edited by manymoretodays

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EagleDoc

Having been on THREE sides of the fence: physician (Internal Medicine/Cardiology), witness to the destruction of my fiancée’s psyche and personality, finally as a victim to the effects thereof, (lacking only the fourth side, actually taking or withdrawing from these “meds”), I believe I can truly speak from a voice of experience and authority.  I witness on a nightly basis, the Big Pharma, pedaling these directly to the non-medically trained public, for everything from “anxiety”, obsessive/compulsive disorder (OCD), Pre-Menstrual Syndrome (PMS), Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), neuropathic pain (tingling/numbness/burning) and fibromyalgia, headaches, sleep disturbances/insomnia, “mild depression”, to “just not feeling so great” on the television.  It needs to be stressed and stressed again, these drugs are ONLY to be used for MAJOR DEPRESSIVE DISORDER, or MDD, NOT what many of the much lesser serious reasons they are being prescribed for.  Patients/people are being put on highly toxic drugs, with SIGNIFICANT side effects, but more importantly, the EXTREMELY severe effects of anything from a slight dosage change, to a switch to another agent in the same class, to the MOST severe: DISCONTINUATION Syndrome (read: WITHDRAWALS).

 

There needs to be and MUST be MULTIPLE appropriate ICD-10 codes for ALL of the effects of these meds, so that appropriate research can be done on the incidence of the use of these codes, to clarify the significance of the horrendous effects of these medications, such as:

 

V97.33XD: Sucked into jet engine, subsequent encounter

W51.XXXA: Accidental striking against or bumped into by another person, sequela

V00.01XD: Pedestrian on foot injured in collision with roller-skater, subsequent encounter

Y93.D: Activities involved arts and handcrafts (that one sort of makes sense, cutting stained glass, pottery kiln accident, crochet needle, etc.)

Z99.89: Dependence on enabling machines and devices, not elsewhere classified

Y92.146: Swimming-pool of prison as the place of occurrence of the external cause (REALLY???  Swimming pool in prison? No hot tub?)

S10.87XA: Other superficial bite of other specified part of neck, initial encounter

W55.41XA: Bitten by pig, initial encounter

W61.62XD: Struck by duck, subsequent encounter (happened to me just the other day... 😂)

Z63.1: Problems in relationship with in-laws (that NEVER happens!!!)

W220.2XD: Walked into lamppost, subsequent encounter (think: texting while walking)

Y93.D: V91.07XD: Burn due to water-skis on fire, subsequent encounter (seriously?!?!)

W55.29XA: Other contact with cow, subsequent encounter

W22.02XD: V95.43XS: Spacecraft collision injuring occupant, sequela (happened to William Shatner and Leonard Nemoy repeatedly)

W61.12XA: Struck by macaw, initial encounter (happened to me twice)

R46.1: Bizarre personal appearance (know a few people like that, I think there’s an epidemic of that diagnosis)

 

Or here’s a fairly comprehensive list of codes relating to animal injuries:  https://www.practicefusion.com/icd-10/animal-codes-icd-10/

 

So how in the heck is there NOT an ICD-10 code for the issues addressed on this website?  Somebody doesn’t think they really exist, that’s why!!  I would like to propose the following:  Symptom and sequelae SPECIFIC ICD-10 codes be cateogorized and adopted by the medical community so the incidence can be tracked and followed, BLACK BOX warinings pertaining to not only the risk of suicide/HOMICIDE occurrence added to the labeling on these drugs, but also the SERIOUS risks of discontinuation or titration, and also see class-action lawsuits be brought on these pharmaceutical companies for the devastation that these drugs and their discontinuation can cause, IMHO.  I am going to do research on how to get new ICD-10 codes entered into the database and approved for usage, so that everything that everyone on here is talking about can get validated, properly diagnosed, recognized and treated as the true medical condition that it is!!!

 

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ultimatumprisoncell
5 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Everyone has mental health issues though.......at some time in their life.  Why do people not have strong support systems?  I tend to think if society took a step back, or perhaps embraced people for their differences, and looked out for others- basically if we had tighter knit communities of caring and compassion........maybe we could prevent child abuse and damaging misbehavior to others.  Maybe a pipe dream.  I'm a dreamer.  

 

4 hours ago, EagleDoc said:

There needs to be and MUST be MULTIPLE appropriate ICD-10 codes for ALL of the effects of these meds, so that appropriate research can be done on the incidence of the use of these codes, to clarify the significance of the horrendous effects of these medications, such as:

@manymoretodays

Yes. It is a sad society we live in today; where the norm is dysfunction and the networks we once had as "coping mechanisms" no longer exist. There is such a broad spectrum of "trauma" that one can potentially (and ultimately will) experience it at some point on their lives. I will not even entertain the thought of trying to validate someone's "trauma" as more legitimate than another's. Some things are just very blatant.  But all of that aside, trauma is trauma.  I will continue to express my gratitude for the bravery of anyone who posts their horrors and suffering on this site. Without all of you, I do not know that I would have survived at times. I've been forced to question my own "sanity" and "reality" for far too long. And I now know that I am hardly the only person who feels this way. 

 

@EagleDoc 

What approximately, would you even consider to be the plausibility of suffering a "burn due to water-skis on fire". Unless one happened to be water-skiing through an oil spill and accidentally dropped their lit cigarette...? And then furthermore; suppose said cigarette was not "accidently" dropped, as there is ADDITIONAL coding for an act done "intentionally as self-harm" Can someone email Mythbusters on this one?!!!

 

Point being to all: I've always jokingly said of ICD-10 "There's a code for that!"

In reality, there pretty much is. Except for SSRI withdrawals/discontinuation.

 

This needs to change.

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manymoretodays
19 hours ago, ultimatumprisoncell said:

If there are any California members who are unable to work because of these poisons I will be happy to educate them as to options available here. Also, I can provide referrals to those in Southern California to at least 2 or 3 internists who WILL listen, should there be any forum members wanting to find a new doctor. 

 

Here's our topic on Recommended doctors, therapists, and clinics  UPC.  That would be great if you want to add to that.

 

And oh......I laughed at EagleDocs list!

 

L,P, H, and G,

mmt

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Altostrata

Thanks, everyone. Let us return this topic to ultimatumprisoncell. How are you feeling on your present drug combination?

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ultimatumprisoncell
On 8/25/2018 at 12:27 PM, Altostrata said:

How are you feeling on your present drug combination?

To be honest, horrible. I blame the Prozac, as bad as I felt and as out of it I was during the brief (no idea the true duration/dates) CT incident, I never felt "right" after "reinstating" with only the Prozac. In at least a handful of ways it has made me worse, made me a different person. I discuss this with my doctor and tell him that it is so, but that I'm too terrified to do anything about it as far as any sort of medication changes. Meanwhile, I have voluntarily been weaning myself off of the Adderall. A drug made necessary by childhood labeling (ADHD/Obstinate/Defiance) that I'd managed to escape from taking some of my adult years. Made only "necessary" by the extreme cognitive decline I suffered trying to get off the SSRIs and trying to at the same time hold a job and function as I was expected to. I get nothing but arguments from "those" in my personal life, who state they "can't deal with ME" when I don't take the high doses. At the same time, my Internist applauds my efforts to (successfully) wean from the Adderall.  He also warns me (agreed, though not happy) to "leave the Prozac alone for now".  I only wholeheartedly agree to do so out of fear for worse than what has already become of me.

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Altostrata
On 8/22/2018 at 11:29 AM, ultimatumprisoncell said:

If there are any California members who are unable to work because of these poisons I will be happy to educate them as to options available here. Also, I can provide referrals to those in Southern California to at least 2 or 3 internists who WILL listen, should there be any forum members wanting to find a new doctor. 

 

Please post these referrals or send to me for posting in our doctor referral topic.

 

What are the symptoms you attribute to Prozac, in your own words, not in diagnostic terms?

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ultimatumprisoncell
On 9/5/2018 at 10:53 AM, Altostrata said:

Please post these referrals or send to me for posting in our doctor referral topic.

 

What are the symptoms you attribute to Prozac, in your own words, not in diagnostic terms?

I have PM'd you with these physician recommendations. 

 

As far as the Prozac, I remember feeling horrible anxiety when I first started it.  I was waking up in the mornings with pronounced palpitations and feeling like I was crawling out of my skin.  When I had initially increased it to 10mg daily this worsened, and was accompanied by intense anger/rage.   I (within a few days) went back to the 5mg/day dose (with a successful reduction in "symptoms") and have stayed there ever since (Dec/Jan?...)...  Though the angry "symptoms" were significantly reduced, they have never gone away.  I now officially need anger management and am enrolling myself.  I know I had issues like this as a VERY small child, but certainly not since then.  Only since the CT and then reinstatement with Prozac.  Everyone keeps saying that it's because of the PTSD, and because I'm on "less meds", and to an extent I agree... But the Prozac is FOR CERTAIN a heavily contributing factor.  The Clonidine was added after much PTSD research on my own part, only reinforced by what my fiancee has been saying all along... My Internist wrote the prescription reluctantly (and stating, "wow, that's off-label!!!") after I'd tried a trial (and very carefully monitored my already low blood pressure to assure him there'd be no drastic drops) and provided him with FDA/VA (I'm a US Navy Veteran) research regarding the first-line use of Alpha antagonists in PTSD-associated nightmares and as a RE-BRANDED orphan drug FDA approved ONLY as a non-stimulant ADHD medication... The Clonidine has done wonders for my overall anxiety, my nightmares, my akasthesias.  I've been able to at least drastically reduce my daily dosage of Adderall and very rarely ever need to take my Ativan.  The only unpleasant side effect thus far has been dry mouth, but sugar-free mints/candies help with that.

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Altostrata

If you feel you still have adverse effects from Prozac, you may wish to carefully lower the dosage and see if that helps. If your nervous system is sensitized, a little goes a long way.

 

Prozac comes in a a prescription liquid for titration. If I were you, I'd reduce by no more than 10% per month, observing the effects. Given Prozac's long half-life, you may not feel any reduction for weeks. See Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

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ultimatumprisoncell

@Altostrata,

 

 

Thank you, 

 

I agree with this.  I have discussed this with my physician and fiancee (also a physician), and though I am eager to continue my fight in discontinuing these meds, I am also equally terrified of the potential outcome of attempting such a feat. As much as the Prozac is causing horrible (not just to me, but to those who love me) effects, I cannot deny the potential outcome of any attempt to try and alleviate that situation. I have said for years, and just reiterated with my Fiancee, "YES!!! Please get me off of these poisons!!!" But the reality of it, is as I've stated to him on the past; and continue to uphold: ...

 

I truly feel that when I undergo this process again that I MUST be afforded at least what many who are undergoing HEROIN WITHDRAWALS are: a reasonable inpatient sedated (unconscious) withdrawal process. One that will assure my minimal suffering while affording that I cannot/will not harm myself/anyone else. And while being ensured that I will NOT be FORCE-FED any psychotropic drugs that WERE NOT an ORIGINAL part of my "authorized treatment plan". Until this csn be guaranteed, I do not know that I have faith in fully recovering.

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ultimatumprisoncell

Though I'm hesitant to "update" and I'm quite ill, I feel it necessary to at least share what I've experienced in the last month or so. I won't go into details, but to say that I found myself recently in a situation where I was not "allowed" access to my Prozac. I of course panicked. Of ALL THINGS, PLEASE DON'T MESS WITH THE SSRI! IT'S CRUCIAL TO MY EXISTENCE!!! For roughly five days, curled into a fetal position and crying hysterically, I was made to feel like an addict seeking their fix. It's PROZAC people! I'm not getting "high" on it. And really, I'd rather NOT take it. It just happens to have that much power over me. Or so, I thought. See, I also knew it wasn't "right" from day one. But five days into forced cold-turkey withdrawals, and not nearly as sick (though sick enough!) as I'd expected? I realized another valuable thing. The intense anger, the rage that was NOT ME, yet CONSUMED ME, was gone. And so I went from BEGGING for my Prozac to telling myself "I got this far, and I'll continue to take it one day at a time... WITHOUT the Prozac". 

 

And here I sit. 5AM, insomniac, nothing perfect for sure. But I've not touched the Prozac in over a month. And even better? I'm OKAY with that. Every day is a struggle. Don't get me wrong, I'm suffering, and CT is never wise. I just wanted to let all of you know that it happened quite by accident, and that I'm holding strong.  At least, much stronger than I ever thought possible. I've always believed that everything happens for a reason. And not a moment goes by, that I don't thank each and every one of you for understanding my suffering. 

 

I was correct in saying the Prozac was making me angry and even violent.

 

I was lucky that my anger and violence only bought me a few nights in the county jail with CT as "punishment". 

 

And then, when I figured the CT would be punishment on them? The anger and rage lifted. Don't get me wrong. It's still there. But I no longer feel the need to "break ****". The fact I ever "felt the need" is scary enough. 

 

Roughly 5 weeks off of ALL SSRIs. Still taking the clonidine (by choice, no side effects and it actually helps). But I can breathe again, for the first time in more than a year.

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Gridley

I'm wishing you well, UPC.  I'm glad you're holding strong and feeling as well as you are.

 

If you're up to it, would you mind updating your signature to reflect your CT of Prozac?

 

 
Many members find magnesium and omega fish oil helpful during withdrawal.
 

 

 

Please only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.
 
 

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