Ninabird: Effexor withdrawal?

[manymoretodays]

Okay, I'm seeing all the replies Ninabird.

Do you have the weekend off work?  I hope so.

 

And that's a long time......a year and 1/2.  You are a trooper.

 

Thanks for answering all my questions too.

 

So just under 9 mgai(for the dose, or mg of active ingredient)

And your weight of Lexapro that you take each time is currently .115 mgpw(for mg of pill weight)

 

What's the average weight of your 10 mg pill or tablet?

And then I'll show you how to figure the dose from the weight that you are reporting.  I may do that another day.....but it's kind of fun.  The math.  I'm weird.

 

So maybe still some post Co-vid recovery??

And are you wondering about if you should do another taper yet or??

 

I see another reply, so I'll close this and look.  And see what else is up now.

[Ninabird]

Just now, manymoretodays said:

Do you have the weekend off work?  I hope so.

 

No. I work Saturday.

[Ninabird]

2 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

So maybe still some post Co-vid recovery??

I don't know.

[Ninabird]

2 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

And are you wondering about if you should do another taper yet

Right now I am staying still until my CNS calms down a bit

[manymoretodays]

Okay, read your most recent reply.

Good job then, with your non-drug coping.  You could probably help me learn more and better discipline with it all.

 

So.....do, another set of dailies/Notes, drug and symptom journal.

 

Let's get you out 4 weeks from your last taper with flying colors.  Okay?

 

I'll check back.  No worries.   

 

Glad you have good sleep hygiene too. 

 

I have a few good jokes I might share another time.  I don't think we have a joke section in off-topic, but I'll check.  They are clean and just funnies.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[Chlo]

Just now, manymoretodays said:

Okay, read your most recent reply.

Good job then, with your non-drug coping.  You could probably help me learn more and better discipline with it all.

 

So.....do, another set of dailies/Notes, drug and symptom journal.

 

Let's get you out 4 weeks from your last taper with flying colors.  Okay?

 

I'll check back.  No worries.   

 

Glad you have good sleep hygiene too. 

 

I have a few good jokes I might share another time.  I don't think we have a joke section in off-topic, but I'll check.  They are clean and just funnies.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

I'm going to chime in.....I would love to hear your jokes, please!! @manymoretodays

[Ninabird]

6 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

What's the average weight of your 10 mg pill or tablet?

.123 is the average weight of the pill. 

[manymoretodays]

You might just be in one of those odd post Co-vid recovery phases too.

You sound better than you feel I think.

Just know you are not alone with it.  Maybe that can help a bit.

 

Report back tomorrow, after work.

Daily drug and symptom log, and also average 10 mg pill weight.

 

You have a good rest of your night.

 

I am waving my magic wand ferociously.  Tomorrow even better than today for you.

 

Best.

[Ninabird]

2 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

have a few good jokes I might share another time.  I don't think we have a joke section in off-topic, but I'll check.  They are clean and just funnies.

 

Who couldn't use some jokes?! Share share

Thank you for helping. I appreciate it.

[Ninabird]

2 minutes ago, Chlo said:

'm going to chime in.....I would love to hear your jokes, please!!

Hi there, friend. Big hugs to you. 

[manymoretodays]

I have to hone my jokes up first.  I'll look for a topic and start one if there isn't one, and then try and tell some.

I'm a little beat today.....just tired.💜

[manymoretodays]

You guys are great.  What would I do without you all. 💜🦁

[Chlo]

3 minutes ago, Ninabird said:

Hi there, friend. Big hugs to you. 

Back atcha! Love you 🌻

[Ninabird]

11 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

You guys are great.  What would I do without you all. 💜🦁

I feel the same. 

[Ninabird]

Yesterday I had a very nice WD normal kind of morning. Around noon I started to have intense intermittent mental symptoms. So thankful that they would ebb and flow to allow me to recharge for the next wave. Around 4:30om the mental symptoms eased exponentially and I was back in WD normal. Made the mistake of watching part of the new Halloween movie. Had to turn it off because I could start to feel my head burning and anxiety rushing in. Never thought a movie would do that but it sure did. 
Obviously my sleep was poor. Too much CNS stimulation before bed. I woke at 4:30 and couldn’t fall back asleep. Images of the movie kept replaying in my head. 
Now I’m awake and have anxiety in my legs, my head already feels wonky. I’m hoping these feelings pass as I have an open house at 1 and need to work. It would be nice to have a good day. Hoping and praying. 
 

I’m sure I’m not the only one in this site that tries so hard to not think beyond today or to wonder if I’ll ever have a resemblance of a “normal,” life again. I also try my best to accept what it is that I’m going through and not dwell on the mental and physical pain and not cringe or catastrophize. There is no quick fix, no magic pill only acceptance of what is.
I am learning important skills in this site to manage WD. The support from friends on this site is wonderful. Some have become offline friends who I cherish.
 

im just having a rough morning and wanted to post so. I hope most are not having a tough day but are experiencing a beautiful window.
 

Blesdings,

Ninabird 

[ChessieCat]

I've moved the posts by jonah2001 and the replies directed to him to his Introduction topic here.

[manymoretodays]

How is Ninabird today?

 

I don't know if my joke was funny or not, helped me lighten up though.

Now I need to find some short, cute, ones in my memory logs to share.

I gave you a notification, and found a joke topic.

 

On math then.....

On 10/14/2022 at 7:23 PM, Ninabird said:

.123 is the average weight of the pill. 

 

You have 10 mgai Lexapro in 123 mgpw

I'm assuming that the .123 is what your scale reads out, and that is in g for grams.

So that is 10mgai(the dose strength) per 123 mgpw(the weight).

 

If you divide the strength by the weight then you get what we term AIC for active ingredient concentration.

 

Then, we can use the AIC to figure out the mgai from the weight you've given.

 

So 10 divided by 123= .0813

 

AIC is .0813 for this batch of pills

 

And then you noted present weight is .115.  And again I'm assuming that was the scale readout in grams or g, which would then convert to 115 mgpw.

 

So 115 mgpw multiplied by the AIC will tell us your present dose.

 

115 X .0813= 9.349 mgai, that's your present dose. 

 

So your last taper was from 9.5 mg to 9.35 mg(I rounded up there), or 1.6 % of the previous dose.

 

When you want to calculate the % for a taper, this is how to do that:

 

We'll take current dose 9.35 mgai and multiply that by 0.90 to get a 10% decrease.

That would be:  8.4 mgai

Same with the current weight, which is 115 mgpw.  So 115 mgpw X 0.90 = 103.5 mgpw for a 10% decrease.

 

To get a 5% decrease, you multiply by 0.95

 

To get a 2.5% decrease you multiply by 0.975

 

So.....there is some math for you to look at.

 

Hope today is going well Ninabird.  And you are feeling closer to some nice WD stability.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

[Ninabird]

Thank you for the calculations. Yeah.....way too complicated for me. I think my brain is allergic to math.lol

 

Saturday morning was really nasty. By the afternoon it cleared up to WD normal. I have had symptoms surge and calm down since. I am not sure but it seems to be calming down a bit. Right now I am doing ok just battling the mental symptoms that come and go. 

[manymoretodays]

Never say never Ninabird.  You can do some math, and perhaps will grow into doing more.  Who knows?

......and there are other ways to calculate and know what one is taking in the dose strength, or mgai.  Whatever you are comfortable using is fine.  I just think it is important and will be going forward to know by how much you are decreasing in percentage from each previous dose, and also know your present dose.  Math is logical and good that way.  In some ways it can be like poetry. 

Anyway.....it's ahhh something you might get more comfy with as time goes on.  You've certainly got time.....as far as your tapering goes. 

You could do just a 2.5% from your current Lexapro next I think.  Whenever you feel ready for that.  Or even 1.25%. 

 

Anyway, post the mgai in your signature.  That makes more sense to us to see there.

18 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

So your last taper was from 9.5 mg to 9.35 mg(I rounded up there), or 1.6 % of the previous dose.

 

Just go to Accountssettings/signature to update/edit and then hit SAVE when done.

 

18 hours ago, Ninabird said:

Saturday morning was really nasty. By the afternoon it cleared up to WD normal. I have had symptoms surge and calm down since. I am not sure but it seems to be calming down a bit. Right now I am doing ok just battling the mental symptoms that come and go. 

 

Slight improvement then?  Battling is tough.  What have you got on file for listening to?  Why battle?  I mean I know we do inside sometimes but why???  Well, WD and neuroemotions......not fun.  Anyway I'm just alluding to having you listen to some guided meditations where they might talk about ceasing the battle inside.....in a clear voice you like listening to?  Let me know what you find?  I've been doing an app called "Waking Up" that can be had for free if needed, or scholarship.  And I sound like I am plugging something......I am and I am not getting any financial gain from this in any way or form, and just like it and it has helped me. 

 

Anyway, pick your app to try.  And listen.  Or read.  There's Baylissa too.  I like her voice.  Calming.

 

Okay, and best.  Get through your work day with as much calm as you can.  You are trooping along.  Good job.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

[Finnishgirl]

@Ninabird

Hi! Just came to say hello. I don't know if you misunderstood the quotation in my message to be about my symptoms, actually they were Greatful's. 

My symptoms are anhedonia, lack of energy, slight nerve pain on/off in hands, and this weird feeling in my body, especially in my stomach. 

 

I am so sorry you are also in this mess and am also sending hugs and healing to you! ❤️

 

[Ninabird]

I’m so sorry for misreading. 

[Ninabird]

On 10/18/2022 at 8:05 AM, manymoretodays said:

ou could do just a 2.5% from your current Lexapro next I think.  Whenever you feel ready for that.  Or even 1.25%.

My drops will be the .001mgai

i will most likely drop on Monday. My last drop was Sept 26. I’m having less intense symptoms. 

[manymoretodays]

Chirp chirp Ninabird,

 

Less intense symptoms sound good.

But how are you figuring that you are dropping by .001 mgai (mg active ingredient)

 

So you will decrease by .001  from your weight readout on the scale?  Is that what you mean?
 

Currently you said you take .115 by weight of your crushed Lexapro.

If that is the scale readout exactly, then we convert that from grams(it might just say g) to mg.

.115 grams = 115 mg of weight or 115 mgpw

 

You can even plug the grams in to an online grams to milligram converter(just google it)

 

So.....

From my previous post here I found the AIC(active ingredient concentration), which was .0813

Then I can multiply 114 X .0813 and get what your next dose will be.

I get 9.27 mgai

 

Present dose, at least until you drop again......was not a dose really but a weight of 0.115 on your scale readout, or after I figured it all out was 9.35 mgai.

 

So, with this drop/taper it comes out to be less than 1% from the previous dose.

 

Clarify with me though. What the weight is that you see on the readout on your scale?  And are you using a Gemini 20 scale?

 

And then it should say if it is in grams or milligrams, or it might just say g for grams, or mg for milligrams.

 

If it's in grams, my calculations all make sense.  Unfortunately if it doesn't make sense to you that's not great.  I think you need to know your dose strength and dose weight and then know the difference at some point.

 

So that's okay.  To drop by .001 of weight, which I think might be in grams though.

 

It's late here, and so...... I'll have to figure out a better way to explain this.  Obviously it is not concerning right now, but I want to get you to a point where you do know how much % of the previous dose you are tapering by, and the dose you are taking. 

And that you do feel like you are in an okay place WD stability wise, to make tapers, before you taper.

Trust me, it's empowering when that happens.....for you.  You've got years of tapering ahead of you and that's okay.  It is. 

 

I hope that makes sense. Thanks for the update.  Have you considered or ever tried a cross-over to liquid escitalopram?  That might make sense so you have a better idea/understanding of reductions going forward......so.....something to consider.

 

Okay.  Nite nite from here.

Best, L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[Ninabird]

9 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

larify with me though. What the weight is that you see on the readout on your scale?  And are you using a Gemini 20 scal

.114 g

i do have a Gemini 20 scale

i crush the tablets w a mortar 

I decrease by .001g

 

 

 

[Ninabird]

9 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

 

I hope that makes sense. Thanks for the update.  Have you considered or ever tried a cross-over to liquid escitalopram?  That might make sense so you have a better idea/understanding of reductions going forward......so.....something to conside

It’s all very confusing. I’m only decreasing when I don’t have extreme ups and downs. 
 

 

I have tried the liquid. It’s in my signature. My body didn’t like the liquid. 

[Ninabird]

9 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

You've got years of tapering ahead of you and that's okay.  It is.

I try not to think about how long I have to taper as it can become overwhelming and anxiety inducing. I take it a day at a time. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Ninabird,

14 hours ago, Ninabird said:

I try not to think about how long I have to taper as it can become overwhelming and anxiety inducing. I take it a day at a time. 

 

Good to hear.

 

14 hours ago, Ninabird said:

.114 g

i do have a Gemini 20 scale

i crush the tablets w a mortar 

I decrease by .001g

 

Okay, awesome.  That's what I needed to know.  And I did copy that liquid Lexapro did not work well for you.  So onward with your scale.

 

So your current pw in milligrams is 114mgpw(for mg of pill weight)

Your current dose strength is now 9.27 mgai

Prior to that you were on 9.35 mgai

 

Those are the numbers that are most helpful for us to see in your signature, mgai, when you get a chance to edit/update it.  Just use this link:  AccountSettings/signature/update/edit to get to yours, and then of course remember to click the Save button at the bottom when you are done.

23 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Then I can multiply 114 X .0813 and get what your next dose will be.

I get 9.27 mgai

 

Present dose, at least until you drop again......was not a dose really but a weight of 0.115 on your scale readout, or after I figured it all out was 9.35 mgai.

 

14 hours ago, Ninabird said:

It’s all very confusing. I’m only decreasing when I don’t have extreme ups and downs. 

 

I know it is, or can be, and we are happy to help.  And good on not decreasing when your symptoms are bad.

 

Okay, I don't know if you've done this yet, and it's not too difficult.  I'd like you to do a drug interaction check.

Go to:  https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

and then just plug in your 3 present medications there

Then take a look, and also link us to it, or copy and paste it in a reply

 

It's likely that you are already aware that you probably do not need to be on both an SSRI, and an SSNRI.  And that part of your difficulties are due TO your drugs.  Of course, we cannot advocate for any rapid reductions, but this information as well as when you do NOTES, like you did do once are helpful in making a solid tapering plan for you.......give and take is always there too, depending on how you are doing.

 

So let's look at the interactions.

 

And no doubt you and your nervous system are in recovery mode now......I can only imagine your distress back in January and February of 2022, and even before that. 

 

I am glad you are here, patient, and determined, and trying so hard to keep going some days in the manner that you wish to live.  You're a trooper.  And......it does and will get easier.  I guarantee.  I can see it happening.

 

Okay, all for now.  Best Ninabird.  Put your feet up, relax for a few.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited October 25, 2022 by manymoretodays
pw to ai

[Ninabird]

@Altostrata

Thank you for creating this site. I don’t know where most of us would be without it and you. 🌺

[Chlo]

5 minutes ago, Ninabird said:

@Altostrata

Thank you for creating this site. I don’t know where most of us would be without it and you. 🌺

What she ☝️said, so grateful for all the mods, mentors, and Altostrata. 

We are all family and I wished somehow we could have a lay people gathering once a year with guest speakers giving their success testimonials❤️ 

[Shep]

@Ninabird I received your PMs, but I'm going to follow up here in your thread.

 

Please continue posting here instead of the PM system. 

 

Quote

2/22 told to stop Effexor and go directly to 20mg Cymbalta for two weeks. 3/5/22 30mg Cymbalta.
Estradiol .5mg 2016

Started liquid Lexapro 5/10/22

Back to pull form Lexapro 5/22/22 (couldn’t tolerate liquid) 

*Resumed Lexapro 10mg BMS Taper on 6/27/22 2.5% =126mgpw July 9 -2.5%= 123mppw 9.50mg

7/29/2022 increased Klonopin to .75mg 8/1/22 back to .50mg Klonopin (body didn't like the increase) Lexapro 8/22 .116 9/26 .115

 

Please tell us what doses of Klonopin, Lexapro, and Cymbalta you were on for these dates:

 

• July 1, 2022
• August 1, 2022
• September 1, 2022
• October 1, 2022
• If you made any changes this month, please list the day, drug name, and the new dose

The reason I'm asking is so we can determine your tapering rates over the past few months.

 

Are Klonopin, Lexapro, and Cymbalta your only psychiatric drugs? Are you taking any other drugs? Please also list your supplements. 

 

When you have the time and energy, please tidy up your signature. It's very hard to read. The first post in this thread will help:

 

How to Summarize Your Drug History in Your Signature

 

 

[Ninabird]

49 minutes ago, Shep said:

 I received your PMs, but I'm going to follow up here in your thread.

 

Please continue posting here instead of the PM system. 

Yes, Ma'am.

[Ninabird]

51 minutes ago, Shep said:

July 1, 2022

dropped 2.5% 

On JUNE dropped 2.5%

[Ninabird]

53 minutes ago, Shep said:

August 1, 2022

dropped .001

September dropped .001

October  23, dropped .001

[Ninabird]

54 minutes ago, Shep said:

Are Klonopin, Lexapro, and Cymbalta your only psychiatric drugs? Are you taking any other drugs? Please also list your supplements. 

 

Yes, Klonopin, Cymbalta and klonopin are my only Psych drugs. I also take .50mg of Estradiol. No supplements

[Ninabird]

55 minutes ago, Shep said:

When you have the time and energy, please tidy up your signature. It's very hard to read. The first post in this thread will help:

 

Yes, ma'am. I know....it's a mess. I sure will. 

[Shep]

20 hours ago, Ninabird said:

dropped 2.5% 

On JUNE dropped 2.5%

 

20 hours ago, Ninabird said:

dropped .001

September dropped .001

October  23, dropped .001

 

Which drug(s) are these numbers for? 

 

Please list:

 

• July 1, 2022 - Klonopin dose in mg, Cymbalta dose in mg, Lexapro dose in mg
• August 1, 2022 -  Klonopin dose in mg, Cymbalta dose in mg, Lexapro dose in mg
• September 1, 2022 -  Klonopin dose in mg, Cymbalta dose in mg, Lexapro dose in mg
• October 1, 2022 -  Klonopin dose in mg, Cymbalta dose in mg, Lexapro dose in mg
• And for any changes this month, list  Klonopin dose in mg, Cymbalta dose in mg, Lexapro dose in mg