littlebird: tried tapering Pristiq - will try tapering Wellbutrin instead

[littlebird]

Turns out eating helps with staying centered and concentration, which, of course. I'm still foggy, but much less worringly so than yesterday. Lesson learned!

 

Anorexia is still a beast, I found myself pinching my midsection and wondering if the wedding outfit in my closet will look bad on me or even fit, then wanted to skip breakfast. Forced myself to down a bowl of steel-cut oatmeal and feeling better for it. 😤

 

I have a weekend of plans, which is unusual. Hoping I can Person real good and converse, words have been hard, but also who cares: at least I'm getting out and doing stuff!

 

The better weather is a blessing, more time outdoors. So glad I moved out of the hinterlands when I was young! California, you real cute. Focusing on gratitude! I think I'm going to start adding a running gratitude list to my daily log, it's been a good mind-shift.

 

Also realized how many of the stressors I currently have are things I once hoped and prayed for, and while work is a lot, the alternative is not having enough to do and having too many empty, unpaid hours. As much as I'd like to kick back and binge watch an entire season of something, in the past I didn't find being off work to be funemployment; it made depression worse. 

 

SO, gratitude, yaaaaay I have lots of work to do! I get to learn new things and figure out problems, and grow brand new skillsets. Gonna get back to this Friday full strength, I just big upped myself. 😸

[littlebird]

Log

Feeling groggy after working too late, but boss was super appreciative. 7 days left of this schedule!

10am - 100mg Gabapentin

12pm - 22.5mg Wellbutrin

12:30pm - Able to focus more today! Less confusion so far

2pm - 100mg Gabapentin

3:15pm - Doing ok today, moving slowly but at least I’m moving

3:45pm - Getting things done!

5:30pm - Slowly but surely, ticking things off my to-do list

6pm - 25mg Pristiq

8pm - 100mg Gabapentin

Notes

Afternoon

Had a slow start today, but I’m getting going. Hiding in graphic design while Gabapentin was stoning me out bore more fruit than just having lots of work done: my boss asked me to do some client graphic design. I’m an autodidact with this stuff, and I’m still figuring it all out, but I enjoy playing with it and learning more. Thank goodness for youtube tutorials!

 

Gratitude

- Finding a lot of internal strength and resilience through this med process! 

- Letting myself just be in comfy clothes, usually dress like I’m going to work, but I work from home and thus get to wear sweats all day. It’s Friday, I’m off camera, it’s a cozy day.

- It’s fun to play with color and images! I like that get to do graphic design with work now

- Going to see some friends tonight, and having an adventure tomorrow

- Had a very productive day! Got a lot done, and doing my best to give myself credit

[Go2zero]

12 hours ago, littlebird said:

I'm wondering if this is something all these meds do, or if Wellbutrin has a special dose of forgetting since it's supposed to help with focus.

 

Since Wellbutrin is mainly raising the dopamine levels in our brain it may influence our memory and concentration when we taper.

 

When we lower the dose too fast or too much this can have high effects on both is my experience. As said I get Alzheimer like symptoms when I taper too fast. And under 66mg I got in the range where I can feel every 1mg, I taper.  And quite extreme!

 

So therefor I suggested to taper much slower, now you are at 45mg per day. I would not be surprised if your 10% taper (from 50 to 45mg) was way too big. 

 

So a longer stabilising period and maybe a very small up-dose (to 47 or 48 mg) might help.

[j1290]

7 hours ago, littlebird said:

usually dress like I’m going to work, but I work from home and thus get to wear sweats all day

I work 3rd shift, exact start time doesn't matter so long as the work is done, right?  So I went in late rocking my joggers and a hoodie and a headache hat tucked under my arm, and sure enough someone was still there!   Busted.  Whatever, though.  Wearing comfy clothes at work is really, really nice once in a while.  

[j1290]

4 hours ago, Go2zero said:

As said I get Alzheimer like symptoms when I taper too fast.

I remember you talking about those symptoms due to Bup and it made me feel a lot better when I was freaking out about possibly losing my job.   Definitely I've gotten cognitive ability back overall, and even when I'm having WD symptoms that limits it.  Very strange to do a job I've been at a very long time with different mental faculties.  I can think steps ahead that I couldn't previously.  It's much nicer.   

[Go2zero]

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

Definitely I've gotten cognitive ability back overall, and even when I'm having WD symptoms that limits it.

Yes, these Alzheimer like symptoms go away again, after a while fortunately. The brain adapts to the lower dose. It takes time however with me.

 

The faster I taper Wellbutrin, the worse these symptoms become. So if they occur, there is a very good reason for slowing down tapering or even to hold.

[littlebird]

16 hours ago, j1290 said:

Very strange to do a job I've been at a very long time with different mental faculties.  I can think steps ahead that I couldn't previously.  It's much nicer.

 

Very true!! I'm able to think of and tackle long-term projects, when before I'd been in a fog of just doing what I needed to do. 

[littlebird]

10am - 100mg Gabapentin 

12pm - 22.5mg Wellbutrin

2pm - 100mg Gabapentin

4pm - 25mg Pristiq

6pm - 100mg Wellbutrin

8pm - 100mg Gabapentin

Bedtime - 100mg Seroquel 

 

Very busy day from the jump! Pre-measured out my Wellbutrin and took the pill case along with me. It was a fun day, very social, and I walked a lot more than usual which will probably be good for mental health too. 

[littlebird]

I've had a much busier weekend than usual, and I'm thinking about cancelling my plans for today to rest up for the coming week. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it in a few hours.

 

I've been having a big think about Wellbutrin lately, and I'm wondering if the lack of focus (and other issues) mean that it was working for me. I'm really glad I did this switch to IR, and I hate that I'm thinking of backtracking, but I'm seriously considering that it might not be the one to cut out at this time in my life.

 

Switching to IR has made all the other pills in the cocktail more intense as it turns out Wellbutrin was lessening the side effects. Pristiq seems to be doing nothing for me other than making me feel drowsy and confused. It was also the last one added into the mix, and I'm wondering if "last in, first out" might be the way.

 

While I'm managing work on IR, I'm seriously confused a lot and making a lot of mistakes. I also have a wedding coming in hot, and wedding planning is a part-time job. Focus would help a LOT at this point in my life.

 

I'm not going to make any changes; I have 5 more days of keeping at it until it's time to check back in. I feel like I made progress, and part of me wants to keep going and tapering Wellbutrin... but maybe I should listen to the part of me saying, "Wellbutrin was improving my quality of life more than I knew."

 

This is tough! Maybe I'll revisit the thread about how to choose which pill in a cocktail to taper first and see if I can get some more clarity. 

[Go2zero]

What brand SR did you took before you switched to IR. And what brand is the IR?

[littlebird]

7 hours ago, Go2zero said:

What brand SR did you took before you switched to IR. And what brand is the IR?

 

Since the Wellbutrin thread said breaking them turns SR into IR, I've been able to stay with the same brand. Found it online, I've been taking these guys.

[littlebird]

Great news! We got a white noise machine and our downstairs neighbor didn’t wake us up today. Woohoo!

10am - 100mg Gabapentin

12pm - 22.5mg Wellbutrin IR

2pm - 100mg Gabapentin

2:30pm - hour nap, unusual

4pm - 25mg Pristiq

5pm - post-mugging PTSD is improving

6pm - 22.5mg Wellbutrin IR

8pm - 100mg Gabapentin

Aiming for midnight bedtime, that seems to be working out.

 

The anhedonia is really, really bad since switching to IR. A smile feels like a stretch, let alone laughing or feeling good. Feels like I’m less tense as I get used to IR, at first I was wired, but now my mood keeps falling like a stone. I think I smiled once today, and it was mostly to be polite (not out of happiness).

 

I did really fun things I’d usually enjoy this weekend, and felt like I had a glass wall between me and everyone around me. I’m very numbed out, in every way. It even feels like my body is more numb. Weird.

 

Gratitude

- My partner got us a white noise machine! We tried it out last night, and this was the first morning our downstairs neighbor’s noise didn’t wake us up early.

- I got out and about this weekend, saw some folks and had some adventures

- Took my partner somewhere they hadn’t been before, and then we rode a cable car. Their smile as they hung off the side going down the hills was very cute.

- I took Saturday and Sunday off work, which is what normal people do! Hoping it makes Monday a bit easier tomorrow having a little rest under my belt.

- My partner and I have been communicating well, it seems like we’re more vulnerable with each other since getting married. I’ve been feeling more secure since then, perhaps they are too and thus feel safer sharing things.

- Music has been a life-saver since starting this med journey. I have a couple reminders throughout the day that come up on my phone and remind me to listen to music, as it’s not something I automatically think of doing when I’m working. It helps! Maybe I’ll play some music while I clean the kitchen tonight and see if I can shake up this mood I’m in.

- The PTSD that flared up after the mugging is receding, I was able to sit on my porch and not feel so shifty and scared. Still not able to walk my dog alone, but it’s a goal.

- Speaking of which, a day or two after that happened, I bought a usually-too-pricy String of Turtles plant I’d been pining for as a “get well soon” present to myself. It’s been putting up little new leaves, and it’s a nice visual reminder that growth keeps happening. 

- Realized something about taking my partner on dates! We work together, from home, and conversations tend to slide into work. It's fine, we're passionate about what we do, but also... doesn't make for the cutest chats over dinner, you know? This weekend, I impulsively invited a bunch of people on an outing I was originally going to take my partner on alone, and it was such the move. Social time is good, but also so is having a group of people around keeping conversation on things other than our work projects! My partner was able to loosen up and have a good time, we didn't talk shop once, and it was good to see folks. Win! Gonna try to think of more fun adventures.

[j1290]

1 hour ago, littlebird said:

Since the Wellbutrin thread said breaking them turns SR into IR, I've been able to stay with the same brand. Found it online, I've been taking these guys.

FWIW splitting the SR is a bit of an unsettled debate in my mind.  I've split SR and taken it myself as well as making it into a suspension, talked to my psych about it, and read about others experience using it to taper in various ways.   I've read lots of contradictory opinions and experiences.  Ultimately I decided to switch to the IR tablets so I 100% knew the med inside was evenly distributed in the tablet.   

 

I might have been able to make the SR work just fine but I wanted to eliminate the variables.  

 

Don't get me started on generic brands.  I look for the least-worst of the bunch that I can reliably secure, but I would take name brand every time if I could get it.   

 

EDIT:  Congrats on the white noise machine!   I can't live without it.  

[littlebird]

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

FWIW splitting the SR is a bit of an unsettled debate in my mind.  I've split SR and taken it myself as well as making it into a suspension, talked to my psych about it, and read about others experience using it to taper in various ways.   I've read lots of contradictory opinions and experiences.  Ultimately I decided to switch to the IR tablets so I 100% knew the med inside was evenly distributed in the tablet.

 

I've been wondering about this, and the medicine being evenly spaced... I took the IR tablets back at the start of this crossover, and they were way more intense than the SR fragments, which makes me think there's either an element of SR or uneven spacing at play. 

 

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

Don't get me started on generic brands.  I look for the least-worst of the bunch that I can reliably secure, but I would take name brand every time if I could get it.   

 

This is worth asking about! I get to talk to a psychiatrist at the end of the month, and I can ask. Knowing how my insurance company works, wouldn't be surprised if I'm taking bargain-discount drugs. Ah well.

 

1 hour ago, j1290 said:

EDIT:  Congrats on the white noise machine!   I can't live without it.  

 

I'm currently listening to fake ocean waves and I'm loving it. My brain feels much better without knowing what my neighbors are watching on TV or arguing about. Ahhhh, ocean waves... kinda giving me sense memories of camping by the ocean too! Huge increase in quality of life already. Yaaaay, big win!

[j1290]

2 minutes ago, littlebird said:

I've been wondering about this, and the medicine being evenly spaced... I took the IR tablets back at the start of this crossover, and they were way more intense than the SR fragments, which makes me think there's either an element of SR or uneven spacing at play. 

 

I read somewhere the med might not be evenly distributed in a tablet and as I recall my psych told me it wasn't but the IR was.   I think some people can work with it and some people can't.  If I were bold enough I'd try an SR suspension for my last 100mg.  I'll consider it.  Switching to a different time release and adjusting to it has always been so bumpy for me, but I'll keep that in my back pocket just in case.  

18 minutes ago, littlebird said:

I'm currently listening to fake ocean waves and I'm loving it

If you know, you know.   Those things are amazing.   I have them for home and work.  

[Go2zero]

8 hours ago, littlebird said:

Since the Wellbutrin thread said breaking them turns SR into IR, I've been able to stay with the same brand. Found it online, I've been taking these guys.

OK, I think you made a cover decision not to switch the type and brand you were on when taking SR. So as I understand you still take the SR you took before, but you are cutting that so that it becomes IR.

 

I think that is much better than switching to another form or brand. 

 

There are only 2 points for attention I think. 

 

1) Generic meds are sometimes not that stable in dosage and quality as the real brands.

 

2) As said before, dropping Bupropion 10% may be too much, when in the range around and below 50mg. I would not be surprised if the 10% drop you made was too big and caused the symptoms you are having right now.

[littlebird]

9 hours ago, j1290 said:

9 hours ago, littlebird said:

I'm currently listening to fake ocean waves and I'm loving it

If you know, you know.   Those things are amazing.   I have them for home and work.  

 

Might have to upgrade to a louder version, it was no match for the Monday morning fury of my downstairs neighbor. Even when I turned it up, and turned our HEPA filter to maximum, it still didn't mask the noise of stomping, slamming doors, and yelling. Do you have any recommendations of noise machines that can handle an adult tantrum? 

 

Normally, I'd explain the situation and ask my neighbor to keep it down in the mornings, but I've known her many years and she has a touch of what could be Oppositional Defiance: asking her to change her behavior is far more likely to increase it. Just gotta keep trying to find a place to move and save up for first/last/deposit.

 

This is no way to start a Monday! Making some tea and reading a book to try and calm nervous system down. This reminds me far too much of my childhood with a self-described "rage addict" of a mom who started her mornings similarly angrily. At least I'm an adult and don't have to live through it first hand anymore! 

[littlebird]

1 hour ago, Go2zero said:

dropping Bupropion 10% may be too much, when in the range around and below 50mg. I would not be surprised if the 10% drop you made was too big and caused the symptoms you are having right now.

 

This makes a lot of sense! I've been reading about others who experience 10% being too much of a cut when it's a small dose. Wondering if I'd be better off trying out a (pulling this number out of my hat) 5% taper? Is there a percentage you'd recommend?

[FireflyFyte]

1 hour ago, littlebird said:

This makes a lot of sense! I've been reading about others who experience 10% being too much of a cut when it's a small dose. Wondering if I'd be better off trying out a (pulling this number out of my hat) 5% taper? Is there a percentage you'd recommend?

 

I am dropping 5% every two weeks so it still equals out to 10% per month but the drops are staggered and allow me to determine if I need to hold before making another drop. It has worked well for me thus far but am early in my tapering journey.

 

Other people have opted for the brassmonkey slider method which is dropping 2.5% every week and then at the fourth week holding for an additional two weeks before the next drop so it would be -

• Week 1: 2.5% drop
• Week 2: 2.5% drop
• Week 3: 2.5% drop
• Week 4: 2.5% drop
• Week 5: Hold
• Week 6: Hold

[littlebird]

8 minutes ago, FireflyFyte said:

I am dropping 5% every two weeks so it still equals out to 10% per month but the drops are staggered and allow me to determine if I need to hold before making another drop. It has worked well for me thus far but am early in my tapering journey.

 

Other people have opted for the brassmonkey slider method which is dropping 2.5% every week and then at the fourth week holding for an additional two weeks before the next drop so it would be -

• Week 1: 2.5% drop

 

This is helpful, thank you! I’m wondering if I should have held at the full amount for longer as I get used to the IR crossover. Perhaps there would be some benefit to reinstating a bit. I felt quite activated at the full 25mg IR, so maybe a 5% might be a little more comfortable. I have an hour till Wellbutrin time, so I can think it through a little more before deciding. 

[Go2zero]

1 hour ago, littlebird said:

Is there a percentage you'd recommend?

It is hard to say. Everybody reacts different...

 

Bupropion is a strange antidepressant as you probably know. Lots of people seem to be able to stop it fast and easily. Whilst others (like me) experience it as extremely difficult to taper in the lower dose regions. From 150 to 66mg I did not experience any symptom. From 66 down to 32 (where I am still) was hell when I tapered too much.

 

My last tapers were around 3% only, with longer holds in between. And even this 3% gave me heavy symptoms.

 

It is a matter of trial and (hopefully not) error.

 

If I were you I would hold now, or up-dose just a little bit (like 47 or 48 mg per day). You first need to stabilise. Take you time for that. When you feel good enough for a next step, I would go down not more than 3%. If that works out fine, you could make a next taper of 4%. And if that works fine try 5%. And so on.

 

In such a way you can find the best way for you to taper this drug. As said everybody reacts different.

 

I looked if bupropion has influence on the metabolism of the other drugs you use. Bupropion inhibits and flowers the metabolism of a lot of meds, drugs and alcohol. Something to be very much aware of.

 

You are lucky that bupropion does not seem to have very much effect on the metabolism of Seroquel, Gabapentin and Pristiq (desvenlafaxine). It does have a lot effect however on the metabolism of venlafaxine. But as I understand you do no take the latter one?

 

 

 

 

[Go2zero]

18 minutes ago, littlebird said:

I felt quite activated at the full 25mg IR, so maybe a 5% might be a little more comfortable.

You could also divide your daily dose (now 45mg) over 3 or 4 moments over the day. In that case you do not get "blown away" by the relatively high dose IR when you divide it over only 2 dosages per day.

 

The IR effect is much less then.

 

By dividing it over 3 or 4 dosages per day, you create a SR or XR effect yourself, whilst using IR.

 

I always take 4 small dosages per day (of 7-9mg each) . It is not easy to make them exactly the same in weight. But that evens out over the day. So not a problem. I take the pieces that are a bit larger earlier in the day and the smallest pieces as last on the day.

 

And do not worry about what some people believe about the active ingredient not being evenly spread through the pills. This is not true. Brassmonkey also confirmed this several times.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Go2zero

[littlebird]

1 hour ago, Go2zero said:

It does have a lot effect however on the metabolism of venlafaxine. But as I understand you do no take the latter one?

 

I used to, before Pristiq! I was on Effexor XR, and then a doctor tried IR for awhile and I had out of control suicidal thinking. Wondering if Wellbutrin was at play with that one! 

 

I started having issues, in hindsight, when the Wellbutrin was added into the Effexor+Gabapentin mix. BUT it helped with energy in a depressed time, plus focus, motivation, and appetite suppressant (full blown anorexic at that time), so I thought it was a good one at the time. If only I'd looked up interactions back then! I was taking them at the same time in the morning. 

 

1 hour ago, Go2zero said:

By dividing it over 3 or 4 dosages per day, you create a SR or XR effect yourself, whilst using IR.

 

This is good to know! I might have to start waking up earlier, which would mean shifting my work schedule around and going to bed earlier, which is maybe a good idea anyway if not so easy to do in practice.

 

Having to space these out 2 hours with all the other meds might get a little complicated, but I could extend into the evening. There is currently a gap in the later evening, but that would mean taking the 3rd dose of Wellbutrin at 10pm.

 

The psychiatrist I've talked to a few times keeps saying, "People can stop Pristiq cold turkey no problem," and I am wishing this was the case for me as it would make the schedule easier to just yank that sucker out. In the past, I skipped days and usually felt fine (if not better than usual) but if I skipped two Pristiq days in a row I started to feel off. 

 

I like the idea of 3-4 times a day with Wellbutrin, but I'm struggling to figure out how to schedule it. Maybe if I move Pristiq...?

 

Any changes I make will restart the "talk to me in two weeks of steady schedule" check-in with Alto, so I'm also a little wary about re-setting as I'm 4 days away from 2 weeks of steady schedule.

 

Of course, that check-in would be, "I don't think this is working, this has been a tough 2 weeks," so I don't know if it would be better to make changes and see how that goes first. Ah, tough decision and no one can make it but me! 

 

I really appreciate your help, thank you. Hadn't thought of spacing out Wellbutrin more!

[Thorin]

Hey @littlebird. Hope you’re hanging on there and doing ok.

[j1290]

6 hours ago, littlebird said:

Do you have any recommendations of noise machines that can handle an adult tantrum? 

I have a really giant metal fan that moves a lot of air I got off Amazon I think.  It's noisy as heck at higher levels and does a great job of masking, if you can tolerate the roar.  

 

[littlebird]

59 minutes ago, Thorin said:

Hey @littlebird. Hope you’re hanging on there and doing ok.

 

Thanks Thorin! I'm hanging in all right, music and working outdoors going a long way to regulate my mood. Appreciate you, and hope your day is treating you well!

 

1 minute ago, j1290 said:

I have a really giant metal fan that moves a lot of air I got off Amazon I think.  It's noisy as heck at higher levels and does a great job of masking, if you can tolerate the roar.  

 

Good idea!! We have one we break out when the weather gets too hot, that's a great idea to see if that'll cover the morning din. Thanks man!

[littlebird]

Well, I reset my “2 weeks of no changes” clock today. I experimented with taking SR Wellbutrin instead of IR, and felt worlds better than I have since starting IR.

 

Pristiq consistently makes me feel worse than I did, it’s the worst time of day and I felt better on the days I skipped it (back in the times of being too loose with scheduling). I think it’s the one to target now that I have a better idea of what’s doing what to me. Pivoting!

 

*sigh* Back to square one, but with more information.

 

Log

10am - 100mg Gabapentin

12pm - reinstated 100mg Wellbutrin SR

12:40pm - feeling activated, but not as much as I was with 22.5mg IR, focusing and getting things done

12:50pm - Feeling upbeat, focus is better, and less anxious than I was on IR

1:30pm - Frustrating day at work, but I’m handling it 

2pm - 100mg Gabapentin

2:30pm - Feeling better than I have since starting IR

4pm - 25mg Pristiq

4:45pm - Feeling more alert than I usually do at Pristiq time

5pm - Started to feel tired and depressed

7pm - Very fatigued

8pm - 100mg Gabapentin

8:30pm - Brain fog
 

Notes

The morning started off triggering childhood trauma (loud, angry neighbor). Not in a good mindset.

 

Afternoon

I think Wellbutrin could help me get off Pristiq, but I’d be surprised if I could hack this Wellbutrin taper with Pristiq making me feel worse in the afternoons. Feels like it’s overkill, and it makes me feel so much worse when it kicks in.

 

I'm feeling so much better on SR, good god! I'm able to think long-term in a way I was struggling to on IR, able to be focusing on research and planning for targeting Pristiq, and also thinking about what should be next. I'm already thinking like I'm successful at kicking Pristiq, and if so, I think I gotta reduce Seroquel to a dose that still helps with sleep but doesn’t knock me out quite as hard. I’m pretty sure I’m on too high of a dose, but I’ll cross that bridge later.

 

I couldn't have thought through all this on IR, my brain fog was too much. Okie dokie, this was a good experiment. Pivoting again! The day got worse when Pristiq came in the mix. Time for that one to leave this cocktail I think. 

 

Evening

Thinking about how today was a much better day with SR (until Pristiq kicked in). The amount of logic and planning I was capable of earlier today was real nice! I was on top of work tasks today, really knocking things out.

 

Gratitude

- A mockingbird has moved back into the neighborhood, and is running through their impressive song list and doing a cute dance on top of a telephone pole. Also been seeing lots of hummingbirds this morning!

- Glad I have some graphic design work, easier for brain at the moment

- I was able to focus and make long-term plans with the effects of Wellbutrin SR. Much less foggy! Until Pristiq time, then the fog set in.

- I made a big mistake tonight, and my partner was so kind to me. I really appreciate that they handle things with compassion and kindness.

- I had a laugh today!! First good laugh in many days.

- Been chatting with friends more, which is coming easier since I started sorting out all the interactions in meds.

[Fifree]

Loving your gratitude lists @littlebirdand glad you’re getting an handle on those meds. So back to tapering Pristic? Sounds like a good plan. It seems to kick your arse.  Who needs that?

[FireflyFyte]

6 hours ago, littlebird said:

*sigh* Back to square one, but with more information.

 

There is no shame is taking a step back if that is what is needed. I am glad to hear that you are feeling better returning to the SR.

[Go2zero]

7 hours ago, littlebird said:

I experimented with taking SR Wellbutrin instead of IR, and felt worlds better than I have since starting IR.

 

In my opinion you are and have been playing with fire with the Wellbutrin. As far as I understand you went down from 100 mg to 50 mg in one time about 2 weeks ago? And soon after that to 45 mg.

 

No wonder that you got heavy symptoms....

 

And now going back in 1 time to 100mg?  Going up and down with psychotropic drugs is asking for trouble. And with the big changes in dosage you are making, it is really playing with fire in my opinion.

 

A smaller up-dose like 70-75 mg per day would be much better and safer than going back to the full 100mg. 75 mg is a dose where most people do not experience heavy WD symptoms yet. 

 

But you would have to divide the daily dose over 3 or 4 dosages then, since IR in higher dosages can come in hard directly after taking it.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Go2zero

[j1290]

6 hours ago, littlebird said:

I'm feeling so much better on SR, good god! I'm able to think long-term in a way I was struggling to on IR,

IR rocked my ************* world.   I had no clue what I was in for, for some reason I expected it to feel somewhat like the extended release, which it most certainly did not.   Through dumb luck more than anything I tapered Effexor before the Wellbutrin back in the day.  I am certain that had I tried to taper Wellbutrin first, I would have been in serious trouble.  For an AD that's considered one of the easier to discontinue, I found it extremely tricky.  

 

6 hours ago, littlebird said:

A mockingbird has moved back into the neighborhood, and is running through their impressive song list and doing a cute dance on top of a telephone pole

Super jelly of DJ Mockingbird you have there.  A little cuteness makes the day much brighter.   

[littlebird]

3 hours ago, Go2zero said:

In my opinion you are and have been playing with fire with the Wellbutrin. As far as I understand you went down from 100 mg to 50 mg in one time about 2 weeks ago? And soon after that to 45 mg.

 

For sure! The switch from 100 to 50 was when I switched from SR to IR, per Alto's math (I didn't trust my doctor's math on IR, he'd been wrong about so much already, and went with Alto's expertise over his). Shortly after, a 10% taper of that 50mg IR a day was suggested, and IR was shaking me up so badly I jumped on that idea and did it without looking into if a smaller taper would be best.

 

It's also possible my cog-fog made me misinterpret what Alto was suggesting and this was user error... I'm not ruling out that I misunderstood something and made the wrong moves here.

 

You're right, I should have reinstated more IR first before experimenting with what SR feels like after being off it. I felt great yesterday (until Pristiq kicked in), but today I feel hungover as heck. I didn't drink, I'm being good, so it's a med hangover.

 

This was 100% playing with fire, but I'd been increasingly feeling like every day was hell since starting IR and feeling the full effects of Pristiq. Maybe when you're already in hell playing with fire doesn't seem so dangerous. Hindsight = 20/20! 😬 

 

3 hours ago, Go2zero said:

But you would have to divide the daily dose over 3 or 4 dosages then, since IR in higher dosages can come in hard directly after taking it.

 

Part of the reason I didn't do this was I could not figure out how to space it out 2 hours with everything else (Pristiq, Gabapentin 3x a day) without taking the last dose of IR at 10pm and potentially messing up sleep. Last doctor I talked to said I could take Pristiq with Seroquel at bedtime, but they interact, and sleep has such an impact on the following day that I'm wary of messing with it. 

 

Usually I like puzzles, but this one is not so fun and I couldn't get the pieces to fit. Also, I couldn't ignore the increasingly strong feeling of, "You need to get Pristiq out of your system ASAP. You're headed in the wrong direction, littlebird. Stop toughing it out. Course correct!"

 

I wish I'd asked for advice about reinstatement instead of doing a one person science experiment... again, hindsight 20/20. 😞

[littlebird]

4 hours ago, j1290 said:

Through dumb luck more than anything I tapered Effexor before the Wellbutrin back in the day.  I am certain that had I tried to taper Wellbutrin first, I would have been in serious trouble.  For an AD that's considered one of the easier to discontinue, I found it extremely tricky. 

 

Ooh, I'm so glad you got Effexor outta here first!! Wishing I'd never added it back in via Pristiq, but that was at a very dark time in my life and I took any lifeline that was suggested, med or otherwise.

 

4 hours ago, j1290 said:

Super jelly of DJ Mockingbird you have there.  A little cuteness makes the day much brighter.

 

It's a particularly talented one! My birdsong ID app was confused by it, "That's a sparrow, oops no it's a wren, nope it's a crow, it's a dove, is that a seagull? OHHH, it's a mockingbird!"

 

It's a frigidly cold and windy morning today (by CA standards) and no birds are singing, mockingbird or otherwise! Did get a fierce little hummingbird fight a few feet away, though. Those birds are warriors!

[Go2zero]

18 minutes ago, littlebird said:

The switch from 100 to 50 was when I switched from SR to IR, per Alto's math

 

I think Alto meant to switch from 100 SR to 2 dosages IR of 50 mg. By splitting the 100 SR pill.

 

I understand you went in one time to 50mg per day. Which is a dosage drop op 50% !!!  Could be a misunderstanding, but a dangerous one.

 

Yesterday you decided to go back to 100mg. Which is again playing with fire. Doubling your dose.... Ever heard of kindling?!!!

 

You can still make up that mistake, by finding a dose somewhere between 100 and 50 (I would suggest 80 or 75mg). At that dose you should stabilise. 

 

And I would strongly suggest not to change dosages of your other meds during this stabilisation period. These big dosage changes you made up and down need to settle first.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Go2zero

[littlebird]

5 hours ago, Fifree said:

So back to tapering Pristic? Sounds like a good plan. It seems to kick your arse.  Who needs that?

 

I didn't know how much it was hurting me till IR revealed the full effects! What a little jerk of a pill it is. Kick rocks, Pristiq!

 

4 hours ago, FireflyFyte said:

There is no shame is taking a step back if that is what is needed. I am glad to hear that you are feeling better returning to the SR.

 

I'd been fighting it, thinking I needed to keep going down the road I was on and ignoring the gut feelings that kept growing that I was heading down the wrong path.

 

Had some clarity come in and realized I need to think long-term. Wellbutrin could potentially help me get off Pristiq, but not the other way around. Pristiq would need Prozac (or something else) boosting it to keep me going on the Wellbutrin tapering. I've been sinking like a stone since starting IR, barely functioning and feeling like smiling was lifting weights.

 

I didn't know how much Wellbutrin SR was helping me until it wasn't! Pristiq on the other hand... what is it doing for me, other than making me tired and want to stare blankly at things when it kicks in?

 

Feels like the WD symptoms I had in the past from Pristiq were just that: withdrawal. With IR, it was both withdrawal and the lack of helpfulness that SR had been providing. Plus, if I can get Pristiq off the table, those puzzle pieces of IR doses 3-4x a day would fit a whole lot better into the day.

 

I've also been turning a questioning eye on Seroquel. I used to be on 50mg, and it would put me to sleep until activating pills like Wellbutrin came into the mix and it was doubled. While it works, it also knocks me out to a point that I sleep through earthquakes and shootings that wake up my deep-sleeping partner. I'd like to be able to respond in an emergency, and I'm wondering if this is a sign it's too high a dose. Of course, that bridge is down the road. Not starting there.

[littlebird]

53 minutes ago, Go2zero said:

I think Alto meant to switch from 100 SR to 2 dosages IR of 50 mg. By splitting the 100 SR pill.

 

I understand you went in one time to 50mg per day. Which is a dosage drop op 50% !!!  Could be a misunderstanding, but a dangerous one.

 

Oh my god, you're right. I completely misunderstood. Went back, and Alto said, "If you're taking 100mg Wellbutin XR per day, the conversion would be to 50mg twice a day. Going to 37.5mg twice a day might indeed be rocky, since it could cause withdrawal symptoms. [Your doctor] truly has no common sense."

 

This was a huge mistake, and I just kept on making it day after day for weeks. ****!!! How did I make that big of a mistake?? Tried crawling back through the thread to see when 22.5mg 2x was suggested, and who suggested it, and can't even find it. Did I... dream that?

 

This has me seriously questioning my cognition. What the heck was I doing? Wow, this is a huge flipping mistake on my part. No wonder I was sinking like a stone! 

 

53 minutes ago, Go2zero said:

I understand you went in one time to 50mg per day. Which is a dosage drop op 50% !!!  Could be a misunderstanding, but a dangerous one.

 

Thank you for catching this, I messed myself up BIG TIME. 

 

53 minutes ago, Go2zero said:

You can still make up that mistake, by finding a dose somewhere between 100 and 50 (I would suggest 80 or 75mg). At that dose you should stabilise. 

 

Thank you!! I so appreciate you catching my mistake before it got even worse. No wonder I was feeling so awful and barely functioning! Tbh, I don't know how I was functioning at all.

 

53 minutes ago, Go2zero said:

And I would strongly suggest not to change dosages of your other meds during this stabilisation period. These big dosage changes you made up and down need to settle first.

 

Sounds like a plan! Gosh darn it, I am kicking myself for this one. What a giant mistake. Got my paranoid I've been making other big mistakes in my life... quadruple checking work today. Which, shoot, I need to get to!! Okay, today's goal is stabilization.